Warning.
Today's episode, after about ten minutes of spoiler free conversation, will contain spoilers for Deadpool and Wolverine. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and on Wedsday Night, and welcome back to x Revision of the podcast where we dive deep many of your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture, coming to you from My Heart podcast, where we're bringing you to episodes week every Tuesday and Thursday.
In today's episode, it's a big air lock chat about Deadpool and Wolverine. As Jason mentioned in the first ten minutes, are gonna be spoiler free. We're gonna sell the movie to you. We're gonna tell you who is this movie for? Was the advertising correct? Do you want to see it? Did we enjoy it? But then it's gonna go full spoilers. And I have to say this is the rare movie that I'm actually really glad I didn't get spoiled for.
I usually don't mind, but there was some moments in which really took my breath away, So I'm saying be careful. And after that little ten minute count, we will do another spoiler warning. And if you haven't seen it, I would say go and check.
It out, and that's gonna be the spoiler conversation. Is gonna be a free flowing conversation containing many spoilers about a lot of different topics, including who appears in this movie, cameos, where this leaves us, etc.
And comic books, et cetera, et cetera.
So let's jump into it. Okay, Rosie, we have seen Deadpool and Wolverine. Sell this movie to someone who's like, I really want to see this or I'm slightly on the fence about seeing it. Uh, I don't. I've seen all the trailers and is this movie for me? Sell it to a Rosie?
Do you like violence?
You?
Looney Tunes style actions?
Time?
Do you love the MCU? Are you somebody who goes to the movie theater often? Do you enjoy cinema? Do you enjoy cinematic references? Do you enjoy comic book references? These are the things that you are going to need to enjoy if you want to enjoy this movie. Are you someone who has at times sat around with your friends and riffed on ideas about what you might want to see in a movie like this? This may well
bring some of those ideas to life. I would say that you go with your friends, you just be prepared to see some gory action and some a lot of jokes, lots of bits going on here. And that's that's what I would say, Jason, what about you?
Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with everything you said. And I would say, do you like are you a fan of the first two Deadpool movies that kind of tone, that kind of snecker a huge the genre tone, Then you're gonna like this movie because all of that is amped up, amped up, I would say, yeah, a good ten to fifteen percent over what you've seen before. More jokes, more meta commentary, more winking, lots of fourth wall, lots of like meta commentary on the fourth wall and what
it means. All of that makes it sound smarter. It's actually pretty smart for how dumb it is. Yeah, it's a very it's a very very smart dumb movie. Yeah, and it knows what it is and it's giving that to you. Do you love the characters Deadpool and Wolverine? Do you love those two characters? Yes? From their comics appearances, from their movie appearances, and guess what it's all, it's all there. Are you a fan of the X movies in general. As spotty as that track record is, You're
gonna like this, You're gonna love this stuff. Have you been invested in comic book movies from jump I'm talking about from the time this movement started several decades ago. You're gonna like this movie. Do you love surprises?
Is that something that brings something to your Do.
You go to the cinema to be like, I wanna be shocked? I want to be like, oh my god. What do you go to the movies specifically because you love those in theater moments where the whole audience has a reaction.
You will enjoy this movie. There is many of those moments. If you are worried that everything that you've seen in the trailer is all the movie has to offer, that is not the case.
Definitely nothing.
I would say the trailer is representative the tone and vibe of the film, But when it comes to what is contained within the film and tho, yeah, you get a lot more of those surprising, shocking moments, those those kind of everybody gasps or everybody cheers moments. So if you go for that communal experience of cinema where everyone's laughing out loud, cheering, They're surprised, they're shocked. This is another one of those movies. I will also say I
would just put it out there one more time. I know, especially in our discord, we have some people who are not Gore fans. This is the glorious supermovie you will ever see. So prepare yourself, Prepare your fans, Prepare your friends, Prepare your kids, whoever you're going to go and see it with. Just have that in mind. But it is a very comedic, looney tune style of Gore. But there are still definitely some moments where if I was like the ex when I was a kid, I was very existential.
If there were a couple of moments where if I'd seen that when I was like ten, it would have like haunted me.
There are at least two haunting, potentially haunting moments of Gore. And I would say further still, I think one of the criticisms, maybe of Wolverine's early appearances in the movies has been we don't really see him cut loose.
Oh baby, you want to see Bizark.
There's a reason for that, because what you would get as an R rated movie, you know, in terms of the violent content and and uh, that violent content would include how adamantium razor sharp adimantium a weaponry would affect the human body that is in this movie. You will get that. You will see that. And again it's more of like a Looney Tunes We're not you know, nobody's like, You're not like, oh no, that was horrific in what I've seen, the someone's life was extinguished in the most
flesh shredding terrible. What you're not gonna feel. It is like a cartoon that said, visually you can see that.
You're gonna see a lot of stuff. You know what. I will say as well, the biggest selling point to this movie that I wasn't necessarily expecting, which may sound silly, but you know what, it's not called versus, It's called and so I'm saying, if you've always dreamt of seeing Deadpool and Wolverine fighting on screen, this is the movie for you. It is the this is the movie for you, baby.
And one last thing again, if you I think Rosie said it so well, do you see a lot of movies? Have you seen every comic book movie? Have you seen more movies than normal?
Mm hmm?
Is your lesson feel. Do you want to feel, for once in your life, that you're rewarded for that dedication. This movie will reward you. When I say fan service, it's less fan service and more fan real warding. Do you want to feel rewarded for being a fan?
This does feel like a movie that was specifically Yes, for that purpose.
This movie will reward will say, we appreciate. We know that you've seen all this stuff. We know that you've paid attention, We know that you know what goes on behind the scenes to make these movies. You're gonna be rewarded watching this movie because of that. And with that, Yes,
we shall now proceed behind the curtain. Yes to the spoiler area oft and we are leaving all of you who have not yet seen Deadpool and Wolverine but wanted to know about it, leaving you behind that curtain as we proceed to the inner sanctum where all the gore and all the cameos will be discussed. Goodbye and for friends, and welcome everyone who has seen the film to the intersect.
Yeah, here we are.
We see dead Pull Wolverine.
We don't.
I don't think we need to recap the plot because plot.
This movie is more like you're watching a ton of vignettes on like Mad TV, but that's all about Dead Pull and Wolverine. Yeah, it's lots of There's a lot of bits in this movie, guys.
A lot of bits.
Now here's the movie works for me on this level. It is a machine gu of jokes and and for me at least, I think every joke landed and was really funny.
The jokes they do hit, and there are of them.
There are a lot, a lot a lot of them. Now important thing to note, I saw this movie in fucking Burbank in a crowd that was like clearly extremely movie literate. Many people who work in the movie industry at some level, either in the marketing side, in production itself, or are kind of jobs. And so every random movie joke there's a Again, we're in the spoiler section, so I'm gonna give you a last chance if you have proceeded to get the fuck out of here right now.
At the end of this movie, there is a there is a Star Trek two. You know, the big climax of Star Trek to the emotional climaxes Spock is he goes into the Edgine room where he's I massively irradiated, and that he puts his hand on the window and says goodbye to Captain Kirket. It's heart wrenching. Yeah, there's a fucking reference to that as a diet at the end of the Yeah, there's a direct joke about that at the end of this movie. And Yeah, everybody in
my theater got it. That's a forty two year old movie. I don't know when, like a forty year old movie, will that hit elsewhere in this country. I truly do not know, And my guess is going to be no, a lot of like the joke hit rate is going to be a lot lower. So in that sense, I do wonder how this will be regarded outside of this
bubble that we are in. But at least the theater I was in laugh out loud for every joke, got every reference and was delighted, particularly at the skewering of like fai Y Marvel comic book movies in general, got all of those jokes.
So I definitely agree with you. I am interested to see what the the wide range popularity of this movie is. So something that we always do when we're not going to the screenings or going to screens is we always watch the They live stream the premieres and they're really interesting to watch because you can kind of see the conversations the filmmakers are having. Right, so we live stream
the premiere because it was in New York. It was on before we went to the screening, and I found it very interesting because they kept saying things like, this is a movie anyone can go and see. This is a movie where you don't need any homework. This is just like a fun movie. This is also a movie that doesn't exploit it's R rating. This is a movie that's about friendship. It's not really about Ryan Reynolds seeing
the movie like this movie is. First of all, it opens with in my opinion, like I do think it peaks quite early because the opening credit sequence is absolutely fantastic, where they essentially say, how do you bring Logan back in a way that is respectful? And they go, you can't do it, So let's do the most disrespectful thing possible. Let's dig up his body and use his adamantium skeleton to kill a bunch of TVA agents.
There's such a funny setup in joke where you open up he's digging. He's at the famous gravesite from the end of Logan, the Wooden X, still marking the spot. He's digging, digging, digging, digging, and there's this build up and then there's this tight shot of Deadpool. He's dug up the corpse and he says, well, Logan, unfortunately you are incredibly passed away, and then it goes well, yeah, because he thinks.
He would regenerate, right, and he assumes he's still alive body yeah, And then he uses the skeleton to kill these TVA agents and as he's doing it, they do these kind of three D esque shots where the bones are coming towards you. It says Hugh Jackman on the skulls head. And I think that that is one of the best directed actually sequences we get in the film.
And it's a really dynamic, outrageous this is what you get, Like it tells you what you're gonna get in the opening of the movie, and I think that is like a really fun, outrageous way to start. But as soon as that happened, I was like, Ryan Reynolds, you exploiting the R rated movie, Like there is a different era that we would live in that this would have been pushing an.
X rated now not to mention like homework. I mean, oh my gosh, we're gonna talk about cameos. Now, let's talk about homework. If you have not seen elektra you're gonna be like what. If you have not seen the original Blade movie trilogy or move you know movie or trilogy, you're gonna be like what. There are gonna be people who are truly confused.
Not even just if you don't understand that, if you don't know that there has been a ten year rumor and production hell version of Gambit that was gonna start chanting right you, then you will not you will be like what that was so funny? But I have to say, in my screening, which was in the Grove, it was it was a press screening, really, there was not that many people who understood why Gambit was.
That people got it.
Yeah, I've read people really back. Everyone in that screening had probably like written a treatment for that movie that never got made. But like in that way, I do think I don't know if they're overestimating the interest or comic book literacy or like the understanding that people.
I mean, this movie is these movies.
Like the joke buck.
Yeah, the the action obviously you don't need the homework, and some of the gags, but I would say fifty to sixty percent of the jokes are like you know about comic book movies. You know what you know about movies, You know about the reporting that's gone on around movies, and therefore you will get this joke.
I mean even to the point where, like I think one of the cameos that made people lose their ship the most in the screening I went to is like so basically the setup of the movie, even though you should have seen the movie, if you've listening to.
This part, you've gotten get the you see this movie, but like, yeah, go back to the degment of work.
Depo wants to save his world, which is gonna get erased by Tom from Succession because he's bored of waiting around for these lines carriage.
I have to say put some respect on praise paradox.
I love I love seeing him here. It's great. But I will say this is one of this is where one of my one of my first like wrinkles of
this movie comes. I think it is a totally wasted opportunity and I don't understand why the meta conversation and the meta jokes don't extend to why they have to get rid of the Fox universe, like it needed to go that She Hulk level of saying like Kevin Faige's making us get rid of your universe because Disney doesn't need it anymore, like the idea that they just wanted to get rid of it because like it's anchor being is gone. And did a exposition. I was like, guys,
this is a Deadpool movie. You can literally just say you have to get rid of it because of the MCU.
I thought it was I thought it was appropriate. I thought the jokes were pointed but appropriately respectful. I think I will.
Say I have to say I do think if I had a if I had a general critique of the movie, I think it's a bit too it's a bit too kind to Disney, which I understand is the nature of being owned by Disney. But I do think that the satire is imbalanced in that way where in something like Sheholk, we got the evil Robot, you know, Kevin and stuff like that, I feel like they could have leaned a bit more into the meta text.
About I don't disagree, but I will say that I thought that they got more Kevin Figy slash Disney jokes through than I think anybody was expected. And you agree with you that that they were. They were kind of much more. They weren't really ever mean to Fox, but they were. They definitely went in.
The idea is like Fox sucks and Disney's the way you want to be because it's the MCU and those are the kind of jokes you're gang, which honestly it's not untrue, like those are those are right, those are correct kind of like readings of the situation.
But but I do think but I do think that they I do think that in terms of the Disney joke content, they went. Part of the fun that you will have watching this movie will be like, oh my god, I can't believe they let them do that. Like there's one where again, if you're here and you haven't seen this movie, get.
The fuck out.
But there's one where where Deadpool has you know, met up with all the shocking cameos by now you know it's Wesley Snipes, it's Blade.
Which for me, Blade that was a gas Nobody knew that was happening.
Yeah, and and Deadpool says you know, Welcome to Disney. You're joining at a little bit of a low point. Yes, that was That was That was one where I was like, wow, I can't believe they let them put that one in there. That was a little bit.
That was also I think I thought that was funny and that one got a big laugh, and it's like, I think that's where the movie is strongest, where it can be completely honest about the scope and scale of like where we are in these movies. But I mean going back to our thing about like, so they go their paradox is going to get rid of the universe because he's tired of waiting for it to die naturally. So Deadpool has to save the universe rather than kill
the universe as we had predicted. Goes to this place called the Void where the TVA kind of sends unwanted things. I will say, very very clever narrative device to just be able to have any cameos you want. So this is how in the conversation you have to be to
truly understand these movies. Chris Evans is in the movie Shocking, another Shocking one that was a mind blower, and this he is in the movie to suit a purpose that me and my friends at the comic book shop, Me and Jason, me and whoever have been talking about for no joke, like a decade.
Right.
You see him, He's in this kind of nomad esque suare you see him? It's Captain America. He's gonna say Avengers Assemble, and then he says flame on and he flies up into the sky and it's actually Chris Evans playing Johnny Storm from The Fantastic Four. That is a joke and a riff that people have been making in these scenes for like almost a decade, right, And the show the movie is so in conversation with those people
that that is the joke. And I think like that shows that this idea that you don't have to do homework to understand the movie, I just don't think it's true. And I do think they did sell it that way. But if you've done the homework and you are in those spaces, you're gonna be cheering about.
I think that's part of the thing.
I think.
You know, I do agree that like obviously you're your homework. The level of homework that you've done will increase your satisfaction seeing this movie. But I guess there's a way to frame that comment as like, you're a fan of this stuff, you love it anyway, so it's not technically homework.
We the homework word is the homework wood is the way they other people pose it. I never see this. I love it.
The TVA is. The TVA is a big part of this And there's a there's a point where Deadpool another makes a joke where, oh my god, you mean from season three, episode five or whatever, Yeah, and it's like there's a homework jerk right there.
Okay, I will say, did you expect the TVA and Loki to be such a huge part of this movie? Like, not Loki the character, he's not in it, but Loki the TV show. I was surprised by how connected it was specifically to that series and kind of the TVA and the world of the TV.
Slightly surprised how big a role they played, But again, I feel like it was quite celebratory. I'll tell you what I was surprised at. I'll tell you what surprised me is how how open ended they left the integration at the end of yes movie.
I will say that's I think that's what Kevin fid I need to talk about.
And the Marvel shot callers could either decide to integrate Deadpool and or never mentioned walk away from it and never mention it again. So I was a little I thought it was going to be a much tighter marriage, and it is quite not that I thought.
I think that they've been selling it as kind of like a reset, you know, in this idea that Kevin Figy's we talked about this on one of our special episodes last week, but like he said, this is the mutant era, but it's not if he doesn't want it to be, because these characters exist in what we leave them in essentially a different earth. And I think that was another thing that for me, I was like, I feel like the meta text of this was missing a little bit of substance, because for me, I want to
know how you end up in the MCU. I don't think for me, it's not enough to just say now you're in the MCU because you're in an MCU movie. I'm like, no, you guys are still in a different universe. You clearly are in a different universe. And I definitely came away with that feeling of Kevin FIGI was like, yeah, do what you want, and if it makes a billion dollars, come on in, and if not, this is a nice fun like think, Okay. Something that I loved in this movie that I do want to talk about Emma Coryn
as Cassandra and Nova. I thought she was so good. They represented her in such a scary way and in a movie that is constantly like NonStop barrage of gags and like sex jokes and comedy and even the the violence is very lunar tunes. When Emma corn is on that screen as Cassandra no Nova, she has this seriousness and gravitas and the way that they bring to life her powers is terrifying. There's nothing funny.
About actually shituly scary.
That shit is r rated scary and I just yeah, like horror movie level. Like I was so happy every time she was on the screen. I felt like she was so brilliant. I will also say that was the couple of jokes that didn't land for me that I get.
I know they were trying to like satirize, but like when she's there, she comes out in one of Charles's wheelchairs and she stands up and then Deadpool's like ableism that won't go down well with the woke mob and I was like, is this a satire because that's something Wade Wilson would say that one. I was like, who threw that in there? Because I was like, let's be real MCU fans, we love that kind of inclusive shit, like that's why the movies have broadened their scope, you know.
So those were the there was a couple of like I'm gonna get canceled jokes and I was like, I feel like they were left in from like a five year ago version of the script.
Yeah, those were like I will say that I think that generally speaking, you know, the idea of like we can be inclusive and also not take ourselves seriously is good.
It's vibe said do you feel it?
Did feel it a little bit like Okay, we get it, we get it. I ever got fully into the enough with the woke jokes, but I did feel as if like there were moments where I was like, oh there's another one.
Yeah, I was like okay, I was like, that's it just felt to me. I just felt a bit random.
Because what I love about the way they've represented Deadpool in these past couple of movies is he is like this bastion for the weirdos and the freaks, and that has often meant that it's all different people who come towards him, and no one's saying, you want a Deadpool movie to be as the boomers would say, politically correct, right, like you've got blind Alan, She's talking about cocaine and vibrating and pegging, like you want all that in that. But yeah, there was a couple of times where I
was like, this is weird. I was like, I feel like Deadpoole wouldn't be saying that stuff. But I was like, maybe that's the satirical aspect, because I do feel like this movie will it probably plays as a satire down a straight superhero's still question.
Yeah, you're like, yeah, me a great point.
It's like it's like Airplane. It's like, yeah, plane of superhero movies.
So one of the conversations we had actually we should just bring Yeah, let's bring that.
Let's bring the people in, let's bring that. Let's bring the Marvel Council.
I will say to just as they're as they're entering the inner sanctum of spoilers, super producer Joel.
I'm saying super produced a common I want to know, because I know you you're seeing less of these movies, so I want to know how it played for you.
I will say, you know, as they're coming in. One thing that I think this movie does really well is Jedi mind trick the audience into thinking that whatever your particular socio political leaning is, that they agree with you. Do you hate woke shit, You're gonna think this.
Movie again exactly that to me.
Then you're gonna do you believe in diversity, inclusion and believe the conversations around quote unquote wokeness is actually important. You're gonna think this movie agrees with you. And so I think that in that sense, that's actually an incredible feat for a movie that's all jokes.
That's all jokes to me, like they were trying to do every side. And I will say another thing that I was like that. I will obviously be writing extensively about the I do. I will say there is some like I'm guessing I would say this was probably the zeb Wells influence, but I can't say that for sure. But obviously we know he's a comic book writer. I worked on all this.
Zeb went over there and was working pretty hard on this.
Yeah, and zeb is like one of the named people behind the you know, who wrote the story, who wrote the screenplay. There was so much like comic book shit in this movie that you almost can't They're gonna some people are gonna try and do like every Easter Egg impossible, I would say as somebody who's had to write those pieces all made.
It's all the entire plane out of Easter eggs.
Like literally, like you can. You are in a situation where like there is a five minute Wolverine montage where they literally directly reference multiple covers.
Do you remember Wolverine two fifty one, Wolverine on the Crucifix? Yeah, you will be like.
Oh god, do you like do you like to see Mark Silvestri Wolverine?
Yeah?
But to life? Do you remember an Uncanny X Men four fifty three by Greg Land where he's with a on his bike, Well, guess what you're gonna get that? And Insane cameo another one that I didn't see coming. So there is a lot of stuff like that. But let's bring in the Marvel councils here baby, Now a word from our sponsors and we'll be right back.
Yeah.
So, Aaron, you you had a point about legacy that I think is interesting conversation. Let me raise your point, super deser.
So I asked whether this movie would have a huge run of success early on and then in two three years, what we still care about it? In the same way, and in particular, I was like, what are we going to think about this in ten years if you watch this, Like, are the furiosa jokes gonna ring? Then obviously some of these comic book cameos that'll still hit and stuff. But like Ryan Reynolds, you know, referencing the proposal, Well, people remember that in twenty thirty.
Wow, this stands.
I think that's an interesting conversation. I think one jokes have an expiration date and they will age like that the Office thirty rocket. It doesn't matter what it is. If you go back after a period of time, the hit rate is just naturally gonna lower because of the way culture moves. So I think on a certain level, you're right in that some of these jokes two three, four, ten years from now just they're not gonna land or maybe we'll land on the wrong side of funny offensive.
That a funny offensive marker line that said I was taught you kind of hinted at it Rosie. The airplane movies were a satire of the then in this late seven mid to late seventies, very very very popular disaster movie movement, you know, Towering Inferno, Attack of the Killer Bees,
all this fucking shit. And right now today, you're much more likely if you're flipping, if you're somewhere where you're still flipping channels and Airplane is on, you're much more likely to be like, maybe I'll sit and watch ten minutes of this airplane movie than you would the Towering Inferno. So I do think that there's a world in which Deadpool does have legs years later, but I would imagine that it's gonna be potentially a much different audience than likes it right now.
That's actually what I think. When Aaron brought this up, it kind of spoke to one of my things, which I think we could see kind of a splitting of the audience where I think that people who are really into the MCU and that's their main fandom, I think
they'll probably love this movie. I don't know if it has a I don't know if it has huge legs right, but I do feel like in ten years, see things are gonna hate it, yeah, and I exactly, And I do feel like in ten years there's gonna be a whole crew of super cool kids who discover this movie, who love comics, who are gonna think it's like the ultimate cult movie. If in ten years we're not still in an MCU high point and this isn't still like
the biggest blockbuster behemoth. But I do think, I actually think there's a version where age is well because of the amount of love for comic books that are in there. But I also feel like it has a very specific audience right now on release, and I don't know what that translates to, though I will say, think about the Venom movies, right those movies make so much money and are of a questionable quality, let's put it that way.
But that's because there's there's a generation of people like us who grew up on Venom, right, Venom, this Venom basketball shirts, Venom on on every like lunchbox, Venom on the TV, and the spider Man cartoon. Wolverine does have that impact. So I do think that in itself is gonna be enough to keep the movie going for a wild.
Age late middle aged men like fucking fighting for the Wolverine popcorn.
Oh yeah, they were getting out the Wolverine pop.
And like fucking crying in the movie. You know, Yeah that's true, Joelle, you didn't you did not like this movie. So your thoughts? What are some of your notes?
I would like to caveat that. I laughed my ass full Disclaire. I was high as hell. I was like, I was like, I'm gonna go and see that. I was like, I'm gonna spoke a fat before I get.
Into this theater. It's gonna be great. I cackled.
I was so At one point my phone was like my I have a watch off, like it's too.
Loud, and I was like, that's me laughing. I'm so sorry. Like I really really.
Enjoyed watching the movie, had a good time. But to me, it doesn't work as a fight.
It's a full movie.
Yeah I don't.
I I don't get a full and to me, okay, we're just starting the greatest.
Don't feel that this movie had No, that's my least favorite part. Was so fucking stupid. Yeah, Like I really hated that.
I was like this, I hate the song choice of Like is this a nineties graduation?
What are we doing.
I don't feel like this was a.
Solid Wolverine and Deadpool film, right Like I thought this was a great or a pretty solid a dead Pool film that featured Wolverine. I needed him to have a fuller arc, yes, And the film even kind of calls it out at one point. They're like, oh, Deadpool's talking so too much, Like isn't it nice when he's quiet so we can focus on you, Wolverine. And they give Wolverine his space, but it doesn't quite feel like he's got the same emotional stakes. And maybe that's because he
already lost everything. Maybe it's because he can't die and they're constantly trying to kill each other. I just think like the balance of this film is off. I was telling you guys earlier, like it feels like a Deadpool mini series, which can kind of be a great thing. It's like every fifteen minutes we're jumping into a new comic. Here are all of these great cameos.
You do get the Hulk.
That's amazing, Like, yeah, you get all these things you really really want, and yet you don't get the satisfaction of like, oh my god, this saved the world. There should be a relief when hero saved the world and I just felt that it was I never felt anyone any real danger, and therefore I couldn't get emotionally like into it.
It is hard to have steaks, I will say that in a movie where two people are basically immortal. And I did feel like then this introduction of the idea of the time stripper and like suddenly the TVA just he's bored and he just wants to get rid of your universe. I was like, I need it to have higher stakes than that. Also, I will say, and this is gonna sound meaner than it means too, because it's
not an insult in my mind. But I did at times feel like this would have been like a really good TV special, Like that was how it would have been VP TV special. Because there's so many jokes. I wanted to like pause stuff and explore it and like
see but I didn't necessarily as a whole piece. I did come out of it thinking like if my mom, for example, someone who loved Logan, right, that's like one of her favorite movies, she couldn't go into this movie and enjoy it, and not because it's offensive, but just because she had a brain hemorrhage like fifteen years ago, and would be like, what the fuck is going on? Like it's so speedy.
I think, Joelle, you put your finger on something important, which is if you want do you want story? You're not You're maybe not gonna love this movie because it's definitely it's quite clear from jump that like this is about getting the jokes off in the Easter Eggs, this is not about They do make gestures towards like emotional arcs, like but I would call them gestures bear gestures towards
emotional life. There's no they're not trying to hit you with an emotional story that you're gonna be thinking about. That's gonna work in the way traditional movies and stories do. And that's which I think.
Is Yeah, I think it's tough coming in the.
Last trailer to be like an homage to to Logan all the things he did for the superhero genre in general. Like I thought this was going to be based off
the last trailer. I was like, Oh, they're going to do like a really great sendoff to the Fox universe and it's going to be emotional and like almost like a film thank you for setting this up, which I thought it beautiful thinking about Kevin Figy's history with Fox and all this to your point earlier, Rosie, like you could have really worked in like Kevin Figgey's entire trajectory through Fox up into Marvel, Like there's a lot of story there and it just sort of fell flat and
then final thing and then we can kick it to Carmen.
But like the Deadpool Army was such a disappointment to me.
Yeah, I was like, what are you actually when you lost I think that was when it lost you, right, because we chatted after the movie.
Yeah, that's what I kicked it. I checked out and.
You were like you were kind of you were like vibing, you were laughing, and then that was the moment where I remember you said to me, like you just it wasn't That was where it lost you. Okay, Carmen, So you are not someone who has necessarily spent your time doing this homework, but you you can you can enjoy
these movies like you've seen them. What was what was your take when you're walking into the screen and in Atlanta, Like, how did it feel to watch this movie and just kind of experience it like that?
Yeah?
I mean I definitely went into the movie with just like, you know what, this is just gonna be a fun movie.
And I have seen like.
All of the all of the previous MCU movies, but I've only ever seen them in the theater. I never went back and like revisited them. It was like just kind of a one time event for me. I've also seen Loki season one in season two. Loved those, so I loved like the kind of tie ins to the TVA. But for me, I was mostly just kind of living for all of the needle drops.
I know that that's like, no, it's true, they did go they went crazy with the needle drop. They did because like that's your favorite one.
Oh well, I almost cried with the like a prayer. I mean they, I will say, the Deadpool movies, even though it's not my not my thing, they have found a way to capture my attention in the sense that all the trailers feature like a prayer, which I'm a huge Madonna fan, and the last Deadpool movie features an original song from Celine Dion and I'm a huge Celine Dion fan, so they have a way of like capturing my attention. So I definitely was living for I almost
like cried when the like a prayer. But I hated the Deadpool Army thing because at at a few points I was looking out at, you know, all the people and it definitely felt like, uh, you know some bad like costplays, you know, like some of them felt like bad costplays and not quite and.
I do think that was intentional, But did they wuck? Did it put something across that we needed? Like probably not?
Yeah, And then again like the same critics I have, like the same criticism stuff, like it didn't really feel like there were mistakes. I was very unclear of like what Cassandra nova, what her motives were I think she did. I just kind of felt like she just wanted to stick her fingers and everything and just like fast, Yeah, I wasn't really sure.
Yeah, I think that was again like there's your there's your gestures towards emotion, where it was like they tried to make Cassandra's thing. Uh, you know, wouldn't it be great if your brother acknowledged and loved you, like, is then a thing that you actually want? But that like didn't matter. Nobody cared. Nobody cares about that shit, nobody that didn't do anything for.
Any No, didn't. It didn't capture me like what we Yeah, what were your feelings?
I want to caveat my feelings with the fact that I kind of sit somewhere between Carmen and Joel with my attachment to the X Men and my knowledge of the X Men. I'm a big superhero movie person. I'm definitely you know, tuned in with geek culture and pop culture and so not. Maybe not quite as much as the Burbank people, but I got most of the references. I understood almost all of the jokes. Everything landed. I
found it extremely funny. The Blade appearance. I actually gasped out out loud, and I swear the guy next to me like tried to hold my arm because it was like, Wow, that was Yeah, that was a wow moment. I genuinely was like giggling during the entire Chris Seven's bit with America.
I really liked a.
Lot of the human and I, you know, again, I agree with a lot of what's been said. The stakes didn't feel present, the emotional arcs, like there was this like trying to toy with Logan dealing with this trauma and having some sort of arc where he comes to accept who he is and what's made him who he is and what it means to be a hero, and none of that quite landed. Like there was that sort of awkward campfire conversation with X twenty thirty I for like two minutes.
I love that.
And you Yeah.
For me, it just didn't go deep enough for me, Like she said some she said some of the right things, but then we learned that Logan just kind of like had do not Disturb on his phone and missed a phone, a really important phone call, and like that's the thing that's traumatizing him. And apparently there's some extra comic book lore there that I'm not aware of. All I know is what they said in the movie.
And so for me, the thing that made it hit so hard is Daphne saying I got to live my life because of you. A lot of kids did. And that was like the most meta, like, hey, this is Daphne standing in for the audience, like this is all the kids who grew up with X Men movies and the nineties cartoon and the video game. I like that read so I loved that. I thought that was the most emotional point for sure.
I love like, I really did for her being in the movie was a real high point for me. And I loved when she put on the sunglasses from Logan and that was like.
That was that was really you know what I loved and I thought was fucking actually kind of awesome. It was, I mean, this is the best gambit on screen. Oh yes, that was like that was his powers. He was the card ship was was well done and really cool, like when he fans them and like goes from hand to hand it you I was just like, ship, like, get if you do game it like this on screen when you really like it'll be cool, it will work.
Channing a funny the accent was so funny, too funny.
Jokes about it. Yeah, right, and then when he when like when he springs into action, it was truly good, like it was actually awesome. And I was so surprised, like they.
They gave you.
The best version of Gibbet, Like his powers were awesome. It's costume. His costume looked great. I was so surprised.
Yeah, I think as well. I do think. I will say I do think that that sequence where they're in uh, Cassandra Nova's kind of you know, layer and you've got Jennifer Garnet Electra Wesley Snipes, Blade, Channing Tatum Gambit, daph Nickan. I actually did think that they did a good job. The action there was really solid. It was fun to see their powers. I will say though, one thing that did this to me was like one of the rare moments where I think they seemed kind of out of touch.
Is like equating like the Channing Tatum gambit that never happened, so people had forgotten about it, Elektra. People have forgotten about it as much as I show them to bring Me to Life. Yeah, not not the gays. We haven't forgotten about it.
Bring me to life, to.
Bring me to life. Evanescence sequence lived strong with us yet. But say, I think equating that level of cultural like impact with Blade, I felt like that was a miss. Like when they kept when they kept saying okay, when they when they kept saying like, oh, you know, people have forgotten about them, I was like, no, they haven't. I'm like, I like, so impactful that you're still struggling to make another Blade movie.
That's a great point. The first I mean, I love the Blade trilogy.
That's incredible.
The first two in particular are.
Great, great, Yeah, unbelievable standard still wone.
Action, the performances, direction, the whole fucking thing is great. Shouts the David. Shout the David as Gloria who wrote the Blade movie.
Yeah. Also m del Toro, like just casually like directing the second Play movie. That to me, that was one of those moments where I was like, I feel like everything else you're doing here. The seeing Patch Wolverine is Patch seeing Wolverine on the crucifix like Age of Apocalypse Wolverine. You are speaking to the fandom. But in that moment where they were like, you know, these are the heroes that people have forgotten, I was like, guys, you that's
not true. Really really great comes to Wesley Snipes.
There's a really great joke as they're driving towards the gates of uh pim Falls a Layer, they're all saying, oh, there's like this version of that one and this version of that one, and then Wesley Snipes as Blade goes they'll never be another Blaze.
There's only one Blade I have. Okay, so I did you know what one?
I was like, what are you telling?
There?
Was I will also say like the one thing I was very impressed about when we talk about the jokes and and whether the jokes were last They actually obviously were writing jokes for this very close to when the movie came out. Because I did think that joke. I felt that joke felt really timely and it really hit,
and I also felt like, I love. One of the moments that definitely gave me like a great bit of cathartic joy was the dead Evil joke when they're like dead Evil died and then she's like, I'm calling it. I love that. I was like, I was like, this woman has had to live through one the movie being maligned to seeing her husband like marry Jennifhi Lopez and make like a documentary about it. I'm like, I really am very happy that she got that like shady moment in that I thought that was.
Like very relationships asked the relations the relationships between the general Benjamin. I always had his.
Struggles, He's had his struggles, you know, his struggle. But I thought that was very funny joke. I'm not gonna let's okay, so let's talk about Yeah, you go for it.
I just wanted to say the one. I will say the one emotional, but I'm I'm a sucker for particular for things exactly like this. You mentioned the song choice of the montage.
I was gonna say that actually got me. I'm sorry, I'm as I got the Time.
Of Your Life by Green Day, which is the classic, mind you know, one of the top five montage songs of all time up there with the End of the End of the Road by it. So they do that montage where it's everybody's you know, it's behind the scenes footage and screen test footage for Hugh, Ryan and everybody else who was cameoed in the movie.
And they even had a bad Affleck bad evil moment.
They had a Ben Affleck Daredevil moment. It was crazy seeing huge that young and Ryan Reynolds that we're talking about, Brian talking about like yeah, during X Men origins, Wolverine talking about like how much he wants to play this character, and I'll fucking admit it, it got me, to be.
Honest, it really got me.
I didn't get me.
I was just thinking about, like, fuck, man, I've seen all of these movies. I remember the person I was when I was so stoked to see the original X Men movie, Like I fucking saw Electron tears. Yeah, I saw Blade in the movie theater. I it hit it really that one hit.
I think, so, I agree, I was That's actually what I was gonna ask, was like, how did the end line look? I think the fact that they used the Greeney song is in itself a meta joke because we all know that's like you're somebody makes the thing. But seeing all those clips, ironically, Joelle, that to me was the moment where they encapsulated that feeling that I wanted the movie to have, where it was like, look at all the people who on this, look at how we
look at all this work that's come into it. But I don't think that should have only been like five minutes of the film. I feel like there was a space where That's why it didn't hit for me. I think there was a space where that could have been built. Also, speaking of the uh like things that have come before, very weird to me that they didn't have a Blade Ryan Reynolds reference he was in this.
They oh they did, Yeah, there was like there It was a lot of jokes in that moment, and especially with Channing Tatum doing the accent, this is like, that's true, we're laughing too much to hear all the jokes at that happened, but they do have a reference with Ryan Reynolds says something like or I think Ryan Reynolds says something like, it's good to see you again.
And Blade is like, talk about it.
He says, you never did. It's a line directly from the movie.
Okay, so what is it?
Ye?
Yeah, yeah, it's a line. He's like, I don't like you. He's like, you never.
Yes, yeah, I know what else as well? I will say I do think that that sums up something that's probably gonna be a much longer range measure of the success. This movie is going to have a high rewatchability factor simply just so you can get all the jokes and all the references.
I was just gonna say, those YouTubers that do like one hundred easter eggs you missed, Like those four folks have their work.
Getting ready right now.
I was so relieved that was not part of my job this time. That used to be me and I, Me and Nick would be like Charlie from It's Always Sunny like with our boards, like making all the lists. But I was like, I can just vibe through this one. And I still caught a lot of stuff, because that's how my brain is wired. But yeah, I think the rewatch ability of like even those like you said, Jason, it's a machine gun is such an appropriate It's a constant barrage of jokes.
You brought raised something really important, Rosie, which is the many gay jokes.
There's a lot of gay joke.
Deadpool is canonically gay. Yeah, he's he's joking. Yeah, he's a queer gentleman, and he's he's joking from a from a place of experience that said, I thought you you raised something important.
I think that the question is, like, does the movie use the fact that Deadpool is gay, is like queer to make a lot of gay jokes, but he never actually like gets to be queer like you doesn't kiss a man even like you know, I remember the meme got shared before the movie came out, and it's that it's like getting queer baited by the MCU is like
getting beaten at chess by a dog. And it's like, I do feel like this movie it did that same thing where if you look at all the marketing, there's all these like it's Deadpool's like hand on Wolverine's leg and they're in the heart shape together and they're and you know, there are jokes, even the popcorn bucket right very much. It plays very much into this idea of like there might be something between them, but they do not get into that. They they never there is never
a hint of that. It's not like Deadpool Spider Man in the comics, where there very much is a sexual tension. Anything here is like, you know, Deadpool thinks that Wolverine is hot, but it's not. I don't know that they ever commit to it in a way that's other than just a joke.
Yeah. I think that you're right, and I think that it's clearly also quite strategic. You know, I talked about obviously how this is a movie that feels like no matter what you come into it with with your political cultural biases, it will feel as if this movie agrees with you. And I think that this is one of those cases trying to have it both ways, and I think, to a certain extent successfully do have it both ways. But I think you're right to note that this is
it's all jokes. No, there's no substantive Just let him kiss a guy.
Yes, there's so many cameos here. Just let him kiss one guy.
Another is it?
Yeah, let him kiss another Deadpool dude. Even Venom did that weird thing where it was like he's making out with Lady Venom and it's like there's all these I mean, Deadpool is a I mean, Venom is a far more queerer franchise than Deadpool in what we actually get because the two of them are in love, right, Like it's very clear. It's like quite textual. Tom Hardy knows it. But yeah, I do think in this movie they could
have committed to it. And actually it's an R rated movie, Like what is the problem with showing a queer person if he is? If Deadpool's queer, what's the problem with showing him kiss another guy? Or or I will also say I also say the American market. I do truly believe that is also part of it, Like because also you can it's that classic thing. You can show Deadpool and Wolverine multiple times, like stabbing each other in the most brutal way possible. They're like stabbing each other in
the guts, that pulling things out of each other. People's skins are getting ripped off. But you can't just show two men kissing. Yeah, I say that's a I say that's an issue.
I think that it's less it's less the American market than it's the international market, which is increasingly important with the decoupling. I don't want to fucking talk like this, but like China like is playing less of a role in box office down that used to be the honeypot. Like you know, you put put a put an actor from China in the movie and then release it there and you're gonna watch you know, the bucks roll in. That doesn't exist anymore. It's a lot of parts of
the world. There's a lot of parts of the world where stuff that works culturally here does not work. And I think this is the gay jokes is clearly a way where they can be like, hey, you care about diversity inclusion here in the United States, in you name the country, they don't feel that way way, but you know, joking about gainness word joking at Yeah. So I think that that's a part of I think that's part of the way that they can make sure that this movie can work in different markets.
I think you've tapped into something very interesting on this almost like both sides of the movie, and I will be interested to see if that makes it hugely popular or if as sometimes when you try to go to both, you don't necessarily hit perfectly with either. I'm going to be very interested to see which way it goes. Now a word from our sponsors and we'll be right back. Rather than making a statement, let me ask you, guys, like,
how does it feel about like as as you? Does it feel like that massive reset that Kevin Faigie and everyone promised, because that was what I didn't get a feeling of when.
It has that MCU been saved.
Right, So.
No, it hasn't been reset because we did not come back to our sacred timeline really bother like I we we we got Deadpool back to his apartment and with his people.
That was lovely.
Uh if y'all don't let him have his love in the next I just don't even please let that man have his life.
I just need it.
But I just but I think that because we don't go back to the sacred timeline and don't invest in and all we get we got a little bit of moments but are happy, it just doesn't feel connected. It still feels like if we never see Deadpool again, nothing will have changed in the MCU and it'll be fine, and because of that, it doesn't feel like a reset
or an establishing. I felt more when the Marvels was like, here's beasts, and I was like, oh my god, like this is fundamentally changing what we're doing here, but didn't say the MCU, which is slightly different question.
I save it's too strong a.
Word, but I think this is gonna boots belief in the MCU that part.
I really think that, especially for your.
Average movie go for someone who's seen a ton of MCU, but maybe not every movie. Somebody who just is like, ooh, a new sci fi actions film, Gotta go see that. Those kind of people are gonna be very, very satisfied with this film.
I think.
I think for some of the diehard comic book fans, it's gonna leave a lot of questions. But I also don't think we're going and we don't have anywhere else to go. There's no other safe space for us to be like, this is where I can love my comic books on film, So.
We're here until that happens. Mm hmm, what do you think?
Ann So my real quick thing, FIGI was saying something I think in the run up to this film of if Infinity War was a nine and Endgame was a ten, for the changes to the Marvel universe, this is an eight. I think that's categorically not true. It's like a three. This is far closer to Far from Home than it is to Infinity War.
And that's totally.
Okay, Like it was a very fun movie to watch and like it was a ton of okay.
Actually if i'm movie, yeah.
And I don't think it saves anything. I don't think it truly did anything to bring mutants into the universe any Differently, I thought it was a great end to the Fox universe. So that's that's where my thoughts lie on the end of things.
Aboo.
Yeah, Aaron and I walked out of the theater and I was asking him questions like did I miss some lore thing? Were they set up the future of mutants and the MCU? Like you know more about X Men than I do. Was there some easter egg that I missed or went over my head? And the answer seemingly is no, there wasn't, and there there hasn't been any ground laid for the mutant's introduction into the MCU, which I think is a bit of fan expectation.
Going into it.
I think longtime fans have been like, Oh, here it comes, here, it's come. It's the next one, it's the next one. This one's gonna set it up. And I think some of that is also was hinted at or heavily implied by the folks behind the movie too. So I don't think it's the reset that the mc as a cinematic universe needed. But I do think this movie is gonna make a fuck ton of money, and that is going to be the financial pocketbook reset that the MCU baby is looking for.
Car Oh, I actually don't really have a lot of thoughts on this that haven't already been said. I'm not a huge I enjoyed it.
I thought it was a funny movie.
Do I think would you go see another one? I would definitely go see another Deadpool movie, and I would. I mean, I'm I love superhero movies in general. I think they're fun. I would go see them. But I'm probably I'm not so much the person that's gonna be like, yeah, I need to rewatch that at home.
You know, it saves the MCU. I think that they need the hit. They need the hit as a short term news cycle, short to medium term news cycle like get off my back, Matt Bellanie on the town about about how like the MCU is flagging. I think this will get people off of their back as a hit. But to your point, Rosie and the conversation we had about like how surprised we were at like the lack of integration content wise and thematically, and Boo noted like
this is not some big culture shift towards mutants. They can take or leave anything from this movie that they want. It does not affect Cannon quote unquote. They can be like that mattered or that didn't matter to a la carte, whatever they decide. So it'll be interesting to see going.
Forward real quick before we end two minutes, what do we think of the wolverine mask in real life? Seeing it on screen?
It was cool. It felt like it was falling down on his face. There was anybody else feeling found.
I'm not a fan of the white for I love the visual for the wings, but I'm not a white eyes on a wolverine type of guy. I need to see his eyes.
I liked it. I did feel like it was falling down.
In that penultimate moment where they're like holding hands when I wish that.
The mouse and the mask is still on.
Yeah that was yeah, yeah, yeah, no shirt and this guy was in for two guys.
I don't know any baby.
I was like, I like the look.
I love.
The climax of this movie was Hugh Jackman taking a shirt off. I said, good for you, sir, good for you.
You are old as hell.
Not really, but he's older, and he's like, listen, the body is still bodying the body.
I really appreciated it.
Listen, the body continues the body. Baby, it's a Marvel it's the Marvel method. It's got a new meaning nowadays you can get would you like the mask?
I have no emotional attachment to the mask. I thought, I thought it was cute.
That is gonna be like you, I'm gonna have to listen to that over and over again, just like I have no emotional attachment to.
The Graybeards who were fighting over the wolverine cornhead in the fucking lobby were like.
Like there was a gut.
Guttle. It was.
When he the vestment that erin oboo Joel.
Car, thank you much, the Marvel Council, and.
That has been our our reaction to Dead pul Wolverine, Thank you so much for listening.
Yes see you next time, See you, next time.
Bye bye.
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kisumsion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi on Disco Moderata