DC Pride 2022 #1 with Dani Fernandez + Ms. Marvel Ep 2 & Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep 5

Warning.

This podcast contained spoilers for episode five, Oh We Want Kenobe, plus spoilers of episode two of Miss Marvel.

You have been warned. Hello.

My name is Jason Cooncepsio, and welcome to x ray Vision The Crooked podcast where we divey been to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Today's episode, I'm previously on Across the Spider Verse Villain, the sequel to the hit movie Into the Spider Verse has been announced. Joker two is now potentially a musical. What in the Airlock? Miss Marvel Episode two? And Obi Want Kenobe? Episode five discussion.

Of course, as always.

If you want to jump around, check out the time stamps and the show notes for detailed information about all the things that we talk about.

And now to help me talk about the.

Stuff is the great, the wonderful, the charming, the super brilliant walking comics Encyclopedia, Godzilla writing, Rosie night.

Oh, I'm good, it's good to be here. It's nice to see you. Yeah, that's good stuff. Loads of things going on in the world, things going on.

Thank you for one.

I want to shout out my I want to shout out producers Christ saul One for for struggling through COVID on consecutive weeks. Kill for killing the virus and killing the game.

Uh.

And then I want to and then thanks to everybody on this on this zoom right now, Rosie, Chris Vassili's delon for for making the time so that we could do this pod. As I am currently on the road in New Mexico where we're shooting the sitcom that is Chay Serrano's story of his life, and we're really excited to bring that to people at some point. But thank you, Thanks everybody on the zoom for for putting up with that.

Rosie. How are you? What are you doing?

I am good, I'm I'm good, I'm surviving, I'm coping, I'm This is a really excited, exciting episode. We wanted to have Danny on for a while, so it's super brad. Also, how's the how's the shoot going. I'm so excited for you.

It's been really it's amazing to watch something that you and other people have been collaborating on and creating come to life. It's a really amazing. It's just a really amazing process to be like, oh, I remember when we came up with that. Now here are these here are these people playing these characters saying the stuff.

That's really amazing.

It is like truly in the most sincere way possible. You Like, it's emotional to be like, wow, we're making a show that's based on my friend's life.

How cool?

Is like, that's cool, that's amazing. Who would have ever thought this would have happened? Like we will go to lunch.

And sit there and be like can you believe doing this?

You know?

And then like you know, Shay of course is along with TV's Mike Sure and the and the super talented and experienced Peter Marietta and Lisami's Bryant are all EPs of the show.

And so you know, all day.

The ship people are coming up to say like, hey, do you like for the shirt color?

Do you like green or blue? If he's wearing that shirt?

Hey, what do you think about this lettering? Okay, So here are the enchiladas for the cookout scene.

Do these look good? Uh? Do you want this? More mud on this character's face? More blood?

Should do you want the Like? It's just like all day and it's really amazing to watch. It's it's it's really incredible. Everybody here in Albuquerque is really really nice, like very war All theseeries I had have been fantastic, like wonderful conversations with all my all my lift drivers. People will just come up and chat with you, and they're so nice. The scenery is incredible. Uh, and it is so fucking hot, like I'm broiled alive out here.

No, let's get into the previous.

Um, do just skip me.

The Into the Spider Verse sequel is coming. It is looming one of the greatest comic book movies legitimately ever.

Made, ever, ever, ever, and.

The film's Twitter account tweeted out a first look of classic Spider Man kind of like low Steaks Villain the Spot.

Who are incredible, just absolutely incredible.

Who apparently will be voiced by Jason Schwartzman. The tweet reads. Meet the Spot, Miles Morales's most formidal fou yet, voiced by Jason Schwartzman. See him in action in Spider Man Across the Spider Verse, exclusively in movie theaters June second, twenty two three. Rosie tell us about the Spot.

Who listen. I'll just say it.

The Spot gets his ass kicked all the time. But that's the Spot role at all times.

Look, if you have yeah, if you have recently googled the Spot, which you may have done, yeah, you may have been because of this news. You will see him come up mostly on lists of ten worst Spider Man villains of all time. Right, but I obviously we love like we had deep cut stuff here, so I think

Is very it's very realistic.

It looks real name Jonathan on spelt very funnily, and I have to say, I think this is so clever because immediately from the image that they show you in the comics, the spots just getting beaten up, right, But from what they show us on that image, you can tell this is going to be some kind of dimensional cosmic villain whose body and the spots that are gonna interplay with this animation. And we know that this is called across the Spider Verse, so I wonder if maybe

It's really it's a really fun one.

And I love that pull because so in the comics, the Spot is your typical computer, your typical scientific genius who experiments on themselves and then turns themselves into a powered individual. In this case, the Spot who has these spots are like interdimensional. It can teleport create spots like in surfaces, like in a wall, and then he can have half his body like standing there in front of you and the other half hanging out of the water.

Yeah, kind of like the Doctor.

Strange powers that we've seen the way to open the portals in the MCU, which, by the way, that is just it's just so clever for the context of the movie to use this character.

I firmly agree.

Now in the the Spot, uh wielded these incredibly almost godlike teleportation powers to just like Rob Banks and shit.

Yeah, and he's connected to the Kingpin, which I'm sure will probably come into play here because he was working for the Kingpin. So it's really funny because, like you said, he is very like low level villain, but he can literally like go into different dimensions and stuff. But he's like, oh no, better like rober Hambag.

I'm super excited about that. I love the Spot. The Spot is super fun. Uh, super fun, deep cut Marvel villain.

Okay, So do you think this means that we will see the famous Leno and super villain team that he was a part of called the Legion of Losers.

I yes, but not named the Legion of Losers.

Yes, I believe the official name is like Spider Man Revenge Squad. But people, I would love to see them bring in a bunch because we know we're going to see a lot of different Pete Pauca's and different Spider Man from all across the universe, so I will be interesting to see what villains come into play with that.

And I just want to say, also, man the Spider Man's villains when they team up, there's always some absolutely terrible fatal flaw in whatever their fucking plan is to defeat Spider Man. Going all the way back to the debut of the original debut of the Sinister Six, where here comes Spider Man, six most potent villains, they can't beat him one on one, so they decide, okay, let's team up and we're finally going to take him out. But then they can't. They're all so prideful that none

Oh?

Too honorable? They know what they want to make it an.

Equal fine, Next up, Joker Too.

Todd Phillips recently shared the title to the sequel to his twenty nineteen movie The Joker, starring Joaquin Phoenix as the titular Joker, and it is I'm apologizing now to the Francophone audience of X ray Vision Joker foley adu, which means two people who share the same mental disorder. And it's presumed that Lady Gaga is currently in talks to play Harley Quinn, and the scuttle butt is that this movie could be a musical. Now I have a hot take. I'm not a great fan of the Todd

I want to see it like now.

So I don't know if it's going to be good. So I think it's gonna be bad, but I'm interested.

This feels to me like like a cat's level, like shit post, like I can't I've kind of become up. I feel like it broke my brain, Like we've all been on the edge with twenty twenty two, but this is like this is my mobius, Like this is like all I can think about that.

I've been more.

This is my I need to start the Joker to musical discord fan community. Like I, I was probably surprising no one not a huge fan of Joker as it was known. Joker.

Sorry, is it a Joker or a Joker? Joker jo?

Because it's serious.

I apologize to my to my Joker stands out there joking.

It wasn't really for me. And when I heard this news, I thought I was going to die. And I saw a tweet by at Sage Heydn and this tweet sums up absolutely to me. Joker Too as a musical is literally the most chaotic decision any movie studio has ever made. Everyone that was excited for a sequel is mad. Everyone that thought a sequel was unnecessary is excited. Pure chaos. You love to see it.

I agree, I absolutely agree, absolutely absolutely, I encourage the chaos.

I mean the timelines. I know we're we're cannon heads over here, and the Joker timeline is its own thing. But like, how could Harlequin be that old? I don't know. At least she is at least she's age appropriate, I guess. And also as well, I mean I want it to be absolutely ridiculous and wild and just totally that's the only way because I don't really need to see like harlequin is a social worker at the Gotham. But the good thing is, when I saw the name, you know,

The car they carry him.

He's like Jesus. He's like Joker. She's like clown Jesus, you know. And and and that was what a lot of people thought it was going to be about. I far prefer this version, so I I I far the joke.

He's let's not have any uh, you know, let's not have any famed like child molesters on the soundtrack of the musical, Let's let's not do that this time, but otherwise, like, let's let's.

Do it here's I completely agree. I and I of course firmly acknowledged that there's every possibility that this could be terrible. That said, it's interesting and while it may be horrendous for our ears and eyes, it'll be great content no matter what to talk about. So I'm eager for it. You know what else I'm eager to do. Talk about Miss Marvel and Obi Wan Kenobe.

Let's do it.

We're stepping out of the airlock to talk about episode two of Miss Marvel and then part five of What We Want Kenobe, both out now on the Disney Pluce. It's my former colleague Andy Greenwold used to say, here we go, let's get into it. Miss Marvel Episode two, Crushed, written by Kate Gritmand, directed by a.

Mirah Menon.

Having discovered that she now has powers at Avenger Coon, Kamala walks into school like twenty feet off the ground. She could not feel better, She could not feel more confident. She is swaggering around the hallways in slow motion. Everybody like finger guns pointing at her, and shit is great?

How could it get better? How about this?

The appearance of Comraan played by Rishaw, a very handsome young man of British Pakistani descent who is apparently a student classmate of our hero. And folks were seeing sparks explode literally on the screen. Bruno, who is going to be increasingly anxious about the development of Comraan as part of their friend group, asks Kamala about her powers.

How do they work?

What can you do with him? And She's like, I've just been doing ant man ship. I've been trying to shrink. I've been trying to fly. I've been trying to talk with the ants. It's not working. Berna's like, why ant Man powers? And come I was like, listen, what can I say? I'm a huge fan of the Scotland podcast.

And then we.

Get a fun like Scott Lang slash Paul Rudd.

Is super good looking for his age.

A wonderful a wonderful reference to the real life meme that is Paul Rudd, who is I just need to know what the what the skin hydration is?

How do you?

How does he do it? Our resident mean.

Girl, Zoe Uh is also soaking in the soaking in the the acclaim and the attention from Avengers, Cohn and her She is more than willing to exploit her near death. Do you to the sudden immergence of a person with powers into burseoning her influencer numbers Later in the theater prop room, Kamala is trying to test out her powers, trying to feel like, if you know, trying to figure

Get the hang of what this bangle can do.

Here we get a wonderful plot about Kamala and Nakia at the mosque and their endeavors to improve the women's side of the mosque. Later, Kamala apologized to her mom for sneaking out mostly as a prelude to to go to Zoe's party. When you ba agrees, someone offers Kamala a drink and lies her about what it is. It turns out there's vodka in it, which is one of the most terrible things, Like that person actually awful into the pool. It's really shitty, like really one of the

I will say.

So he gets out of the pool and it's this wonderful like eyes lock moment.

He's walking towards her. It's happening like it's slow motion.

There's all these sparks, and then he's like, oh, you're standing on my you're standing on my shirt.

And then he goes to put it on without toweling off.

Oh yeah, what kind of.

What kind of psycho gets out of the pool and then just puts on a dry shirt without fucking toweling off.

I was shocked by this. But now, as people see in the rest of that, I'm assuming this is foreshadowing act about it because I agree with you. I agree with you.

That I thought that as well. But so, yeah, it's spoiler alert.

We're gonna find out some stuff about about this person later on that could lead us to believe that maybe he has powers and there's like something else going on there.

But why like almost well, maybe he's just a psycho, And.

Why almost out yourself as a powered individual by like like steam drying all the liquid off your body?

Did he want to let it cool? Like? I mean, it did look cool? I have to say, I think we only probably noticed because we're old people. We were like, I'm you gonna get the chills?

Yeah, I know now.

Of course, Bruno, who has feelings of his own for Kamala, is not too happy about this ongoing and development. He feels it's it's he feels really shitty about it. Let's talk for briefly about the bank Rosie. We've been saying the Quanta band, and I think that's right. But I also think now increasingly that what they've done here is just basically take the Mega band and the Quanta Band and smash them together. And it's some kind of version of both.

Like it would not surprise me at all.

If I agree whatever this is is connected to the Cree but also somehow to the negative zone.

YadA YadA, yadah.

So something that I think is really interesting in this episode, Bruno realizes like if he puts the bangle on, or if someone else puts on, it's not going to give them powers. Like the Bangal is channeling something that is inherently inside Kamala. I find that very interesting. Also, Kamala works out that her powers are as she calls it, it feels like an idea come to life. So this is an imagination based power. That is, it is channeled by a magical artifact that you wear on your hand on.

So Carla is very interested in exploring this familial connection. So when her brother Emir brings his fiance Taisha around for dinner, this gives Kamali opening to kind of probe around, ask her mother Mendiba, about the family's family history and maybe get some information about how the family came to be in possession of this band.

This leads to a really well done, very like.

Entertaining and refreshing conversation about the family's personal history regarding the partition of India after the announcement of Indian independence. This is in nineteen forty seven. It was a epoch shifting event that resulted in a rolling civil war, numerous instances of unrest, millions of people on the move.

And many many, many, many many many deaths.

And of course that trauma touched this family in specific ways. And I think one thing, if anybody's ever had any experience with South Asian communities, Pakistani communities have Pakistani friends, is Pakistani? You know that, like every family does have some kind of story. And also nobody talks. This is not like a thing people talk about. So I found this scene to just be like, Wow, I love that they're going here.

This sums up what's so great about this show so far as this warmth and balance and love for the character and love for the comics, but recognizing who the character actually is and what it means for that character. And I absolutely this is where we start to really get that hint of how this could be a familiar power. And I love that they've tied it in that way.

I absolutely, I absolutely love it.

And so Kamala's asking your mom about her mom uh Sanna and then her great grandmother Ayisha, that this is uh, Kamala's great grandmother Ayisha, and this is a very touchy subject.

It's clear by Medieva's response. Uh.

She talks about uh potential sexual impropriety on behalf of Aisha. She talks about a mysterious disappearance.

Uh. But the takeaway is.

We doesn't want to talk about this, whatever this is, We're not talking about your great grandmother.

Kamala then has.

As tensions and emotions start to rise on the subject of her great grandmother Aisha. Uh, the bangal like it starts to glow. Something happens and Kamala has a vision which seemingly emanates from the Bengal of like this portal opening and there's a person there and who is this person? With their hair flowing and energy crackling all around her And the next thing you know, Kamala is like is coming to She has passed out, fainted on the ground with her loved ones all concerned looking down on her.

Believe they talk in this moment of how Manieba's mom so Kamala's grandma Sona, which is obviously I believe is yeah, so it's a it's probably a hint to Sonna AMNet, who created was a co creator of this marvel. She got lost and separated from her family, and she was able to find her way back, according to her, as a child on a rail of stars. And nobody knows what happened to Aisha, and it all seems very mythical.

The next morning, we discover that Kamala's parents got together in part because of a shared love of the music of bon Jovi. And then Kamala asks about Aisha again, and Maniebla again just like shuts her down. We're not talking about this. The family then goes to the mosque to celebrate aid. Nakia is making the rounds as she is now running for the board of election of the mosque, you know, leadership of the mosque. This puts her into direct competition with one of Kamala's dad's friends, which is

Muslim person, to which agent Cleary.

Notes that, Okay, well, we have to be careful because we already know that the FBI has these communities under surveillance. Here again is a moment that I found so refreshing and like, yeah, we're just going to go there. I

And here is a clear reference to that very.

Real world event. And I was just in shock that they referenced this.

I thought this was really, really, really well done, and I think that something I'm very interested to see is where the Department of Damage Control will go, because this is very different to the Dwayne McDuffie Department of Damage Control. They were not cops, they were not a government agency, which fits into the world of the MCU. But I would love to see with that critique that was put into the show, I would love to see a version that's more like that we clean we're tired, we clean

Really, I mean, this show is is just really really really well done. First of all, like the most easily the most visually creative Marvel show on Disney.

Truly, you can say there's nothing like it. It's there's nothing like it.

There's nothing like it.

Every scene has a moment that just pops, whether it's the comics inspired like almost drawn on effects and lettering that appears like on surfaces or on the roadway or on the wall or at or the scene from episode one in which Kamala like flops down like on the divan and the camera flips over lafully like one eighty like vertically so that it's looking at her now upside down. All these little visual things make this show so fun to watch. And then they hit you with.

This really big hearted.

Depiction of Pakistani American family, child of immigrants that does not pull its punches on any of the issues that intersect with that community.

Really great shit, This is a good episode.

It's the good stuff. Yeah, that's the really stuff.

Back at Eid, the Aunties reiterates Kamala that Aisher her great grandmother in some way that is not laid out, brought shame to the family. Some say she was a snake, she was putting curses on people, She had an affair, she ran on and she killed somebody during the partition.

Nobody's really sure, but whatever it was, it was bad.

As this is going on, a kid who climbed up the mosque tower falls and now has to be rescued.

Who will do the rescuing? Guess who?

Kamala Khan suits up. She gets her first big superhero moment. She successfully creates her little hard light steps that allow her to step out over like high over the street and reach up and grab this kid and save him. She creates a little hard light platform for him to fall on. Then she takes a little too early of a victory lap and the kid ends up falling many

Then Kamala flees away.

As she's fleeing, damage Control springs its trap using drones, which I was very surprised to see, Like this is like mysterio tech.

Is this what's happening on like steels very stark, which, yeah, we know that we need to be.

Laying the groundwork for armores. So the idea of people having stark tech that someone like Roady would not agree with them using in certain ways I feel like profiling and you know, illegally watching marginalized communities of color. Roady probably wouldn't be down with that. So this could definitely be a kind of early nod to where the technology has gone since Tony died.

Kamala takes out the drones.

She's running away, but she she's getting blocked in by damage control.

They're waiting for her at the end of this alley.

She creates her heart light, steps, steps up over them, jumps down on the other side into the street. And who should pull up but Camraan in a Porsche. This kid drives a Porsche. He says it's not his, it's his uncles. But still a kid driving a Porsche, which should have been a red flag earlier, and now here's a bigger red flag. Kamala gets in the car, car

Tune in next week to find out. Bob, Bob, Bob. I love this episode of the Central Mystery. So good is so good? I love that.

I love the appearance of Camraan what it means for for the Bruno friendship slash potential romantic relationship because I love a love triangle that makes it really juicy. And then the fact that man, this woman that Kamala has been having visions of is his mother. Okay, who are these people? Let's let's quickly fear Okay, who are these people?

I think that I think Ayisha is her grandma, but she's looking great grandma, but she's looking very young. So we can assume some kind of power situation. We have already suggested that camp may have powers. I have to say so, I think that him and Kamala are going

There's got to be too. They can everyone. There's got to be too.

There's got to be too.

I'm really loving this. I'm really loving the show. Can't wait to see the next episode updxed We Want Kenobi Part five, written by Joby Harold and Andrew Statten and directed by Deborah Chow. We open a Corossant to Jedi Temple flashback to before the fall of the Jedi O We Want Kenobi. Uh finds his padawan, Anakin Skywalker, on

I think I'm better than him.

I also think it's like this really good. I have to say this. This is a this is a really fun episode. But these flashbacks which we had, by the way, we're right. We knew that was going to be flashbacks. He said that was going to be flash I think there's so much powerful storytelling done in those moments, and they do a really great job of building out on that Anakin obi Wan relationship. And something I love about

Just look, it was just the right amount.

It look, Hayden looked a little bit older. But I was okay with it. Guys, it looks good. I I was, It looked exactly the same. I just I feel like we were all waiting for these kind of this reunion of this era for them, and so I love to see it. I love to see it.

I love to see it too. Uh.

They the pair ignite their lightsabers and they are about to launch into a duel. We flash forward too years later. Darth Vader is on his flagship. He is staring out now into the vastness of space, much like he once was years ago, looking out over the skyline of courseant and it's clear from the way that cut happens that Darth slash Anakin is remembering these.

This is his life.

As as he grows closer towards how they Obi wan Kenobi in his clutches, he's thinking about these moments that they shared together in the past.

Reva comes before him and she is fucking pumped up.

She's stoked, Lord Vader.

I gotta tell you, it is such a fucking honor to be on your flagship. It's it smells great. What is that for, breeze? It smells great in here.

I love it. I love what you did with the plays where you auste. You're looking great, You're looking great. Things on this is awesome.

And by the way, that tracker thing, when I tell you it worked, it fucking worked. Obi Lan Toler on route to Jabim and Vader's like, great work, Neil. He awards her the thing that she has been aiming for all these years. We think, put a pin in that we'll come back to it a little later. It is the position of Grand Inquisitor.

Huge day for Reva. He gives it a little.

Pin that signifies you are now the Grand Inquisitor and stop, folks, Jabam. On Jabam, Rocan's cruiser arrives. Several dozen refugees are there waiting in the hangar bay, including children and families, and they all meet the ship. Roken comes out to just say we got her, we saved her. Absolutely zero mention of our good friend Wade. Sorry it died at the battle.

Can't even can't even get it.

By the way, we lost Wade all Pete Wade, I love.

Comsolutely, just continuing the tradition of like just absolute dozen matt deaths in Star Wars. There's like collateral damage of the rebellion. Sorry, babe, you can't learn. No one's gonna think about.

Someone, can one person? Shit a single fucking tear for Wade.

Cried about Wade last week and that was it.

Now it's like everyone's moved on anyway.

We we we really knew him. Wait, but we remember you. Obi finds Hadja amongst the refugees and he says, I had nowhere else to go, and also, I'm a wanted man.

The Empires is looking.

For me now. But you know I'm here on Jabim. I'm on the path and you know what I see. I see credit signs. I see a juicy business opportunity along with an opportunity to help people.

So that's what Haja is up to.

Obie talks to Rocan about, Hey, I got to get back to alder On because there's we got Leya now, and there's this whole other thing that I have to do. But Rokin says, okay, first things first, all these folks, all these refugees here, they need to get out of here.

Lola goes to work.

Meanwhile, Obi notices some graffiti on the wall there in the in the Path complex and it says the light will fade but has never forgotten. There's some other stuff on there that you notice that is confirmation of various Legends things.

What did you find, Rosie Knight.

Yes, there is some Legends characters in Aura. Besh Dan Casey Atnetics actually has found like way more so. They have a really good Easter Eggs breakdown. But there's like Corwyn Shalby who's an NBC from Star Wars MPG that became part of Legends. Jedi trained after the page Drake Logan or Logane from an old Star Wars webcomic that was released around the time of the Clone Wars, who

Right near this graffiti OBCs a cache of of Jedi stuff. There's no better way to say it. There's a small crate there that has various lightsabers in it. Nearby, he finds some Jedi ro ubes or as obi Wan would call them, my disguise when I'm trying to pretend not to be a Jedi.

Now I've found all this I found all.

This stuff interesting because how do we think, what do we think happened here? Did Jedis who were on the run come to Jubim as a stop on the path and say, okay, I have to get rid of all my Jedi shit because this marks me as a target.

I'm giving I'm leaving it all here.

Or did their loved ones take it there and deposit it there after their loved ones were killed in the purge or some other way. I'm a little bit I want to know more about how this stuff got here.

Yeah, I totally agree. I think that's a really good point. I think it's going to inspire probably a lot of fan fiction. I would love to know more about it in a canon sense. My gut feeling says it was Jedi who died either at the path helping people get there,

It's such a great point about the Lightsabers.

Because right that to add on to that, notably, you know, after the rise, directly after the Rise of the Empire, Grand Vizier of the Empire, Masa Beta like melted down like a thousand fucking lightsabers. Religion enough yeah, not enough apparently, but then so Obi sees all this Jedi stuff, but then boom, the building goes into lockdown. Sully and Broken are like, what's happening? We're not controlling this, and Brocan's like,

Darth Vader is here. So what do we do?

Obi Wan tells them, Okay, Vader's next move is going to be just all out attack aggression. He doesn't have patience. He's not gonna wait to like starve us out. He's not gonna put up a siege and just wait for us to all die. He's gonna try and force his weight in here.

How do you know this, Obi Wan?

Well, long story flashback. Now back to the duel, and it's another one of those teaching duels that we have seen Obi and Anakind fight over the years. Obi is preaching patience and letting go to these kind of like specific dogmatic goals of victory.

And winning whatever that means.

That's not why the Jedi struggle, not to quote unquote win. But Anakin is just like about competition, about that grind. To him, every engagement, every relationship is a zero sum game of somebody's got to win and somebody's got to lose.

He wants to win at all costs.

This is a classic Like, look, I love these characters. Yeah, we both, we all love that. This is a classic moment. I've always been an op. I won't say When I was younger, I would have said a hater. I would say that now as an older, more seasoned person with more love in my heart, I'm obi Wan questioner, right, And this is one of those moments where I say, obi Wan stop teaching him things during Jewels, he was not noticing it. Like this kid loves fying, loves chopping

More meditation, right, more Jedi meditation, less lightsabers. I think that's clearly one of the missteps from the training of Anakin Skywalker. The Imperial assault begins, obi Obi Wan Kobi gives the worst pump up speech in the fucking history of its veriginal speeches. Everyone, everyone, I understand you're scared. Everybody's looking around. Yeah, we're scared. The Empire will attack soon. Now there's legitimate people fainting they're stronger than us. Somebody

Whoa, I can't wait to get into it, obi Wa.

God, you know what I was like. I was like, I'm not sure if we could fight the ampert. But now that you said we're gonna get fucking wiped out, I one hard.

No on, Obi, what.

Are you doing?

Why are you doing? Man?

Like? Can you believe it? I've never heard a worst speech. He was so great, absolutely incredible.

God I've done.

This is not getting me inspired to do this thing that we gotta do.

So can I just say he is like Charles exaving our high level hair, Charles Xavier. Yeah, especially in the movies. If that guy turns up somewhere, your whole family's gonna die. Like wherever he can think about Logan. Yeah, he takes them to that nice family they're looking at, and then guess what, they all get murdered by evil evil Logan.

Right.

I just feel like, Obi Wan, you gotta do a much bad job because legitimately the only reason that these people more who have been waiting for months for safe passage, you came here with your no drama and now they are all gonna die and you can't even be like, we're gonna do it. Guys, the force is with us.

That's yes, thank you.

Like to quote a great space captain and legendary smuggler, never tell me the odds.

Fucking lie to me, please, obi.

Wan, don't tell me now our own Chris Lord along with Mallory Rubin, when I raised these issues to do both of them in turn both said, okay, well, here's the thing. Obi Wan's spent the last ten years like cutting fish and then living alone in a fucking cave.

He does.

It's like, you know, after two years of pandemic and you know, a year and a half of lockdown, like we didn't know how to talk to people. And that's absolutely right.

I get it.

It's it's weird talking to people and making you know, inspiring pre battle speeches after you haven't done that for over a decade and all. And by the way, the last time you did that, you lost that war. I understand that's tough. At the same time, fucking read the room.

We want everybody looks to. Everybody's terrified.

Don't don't end with we will not survive there.

Are so many forced sensitive kids in this room.

Man, just do a little bit of inspiration.

He ends, He ends on a stronger note. He closes strong, which is great. He says, listen, Yes, if we fight them, we will all die. Okay, but we're not gonna fight them now. We're not gonna fight them. All we need to do is harden this facility, guard the points of entry, and fight for every inch so we can buy time so all of us can get on the ships and leave.

Great, okay, let's do that. And by the way, here.

In this moment is the birth of what is essentially the tried and true rebel alliance strategy that will carry that armed force throughout its long war against the empire. Shoot and scoot, we hit the empire, and then we get out of here. Whether it's hawth, this is what they did on Yavitt, this is what they did on Crate later in the later trilogies, it's hit and run. And here is legitimately, i think, the first example of that rebel strategy, although it's just what they have to

Reva makes len fall.

She's here to command the assault from the ground while Darth Vader's up in his ship. They begin pounding the main blast door with that gigantic mounted blaster inside broken. It's like, man, we can't get the hangar doors open, so we can't actually the escape part, like the holding off part is going kind of okay, skate part is not going to work if we can't get these doors open. Hanja comes up and says, well, okay, it looks like

Is that Princess Lea's music.

Yes, it's Princess Lay's music. Ten year old Princess Lea is like, fucking I'll.

Go up like.

She's like, Galla ladder, a ladder, you fucking lose it.

By the way, she doesn't say this, but you could tell she's thinking it.

Who fixes the doors when they break? Like when the astrog Yeah, where what's going on?

Ben tells Hodja keep an eye on Lea. I have to go make a phone call. He runs out makes a phone call. It's Bail Organo aka Jimmy Baggs. I call him that because he keeps collecting those big bags for being star Wars.

I love it.

He's calling from all around, of course, and he says, listen, I'm worried because you have left me on read for all this time since I contacted you about rescue Leah.

You don't call me back.

I have no information about what's going on with I don't know if you're dead or alive, what's going on with either of you? And if I don't hear back for you, I guess I gotta go to Tattooine to check up on quote unquote the Boy aka Luke Skywalker, because I know that Owen lars now is not gonna be able to do it. Where's by the way, no mention of Beru, thanks a lot. Okay, guys, we can't disrespectful. He not Actually, Brew doesn't need help.

He's like just Owen.

Oh, it's kind of a mess.

He's a mess. He's very angry. Man. There's something really interesting here right, Honestly, I love bail Ghana, one of my old time most flawless Star Wars characters. But don't say that on a communicator, please, even just the implication this is bad. Don't put it out that it's gonna end badly for you.

Leave it as a video voicemail, a hologram voicemail, like if you need to say that, yeah, don't, don't do that. Uh.

And Ben is like, Ben gets.

This and he's like, oh fuck, shit, things are going bad. Tala comes in and she's obviously anxious and very worried about these developments, you know, the Empire here and attacking and always like everything's going to be found. Tala then shares her own imperial or in sory. She was obviously an imperial officer. She was part of a round up operation of four sensitive families that turned out to be a catch and kill, you know, offshoot of Order sixty six, basically a wipeout mass murder operation.

Uh.

And she says, of that, so now I do this, and this means helping refugees escape from imperial clutches and killing imperial forces. Rocan then comes in. He's like, hey, shit is hitting the fan. The blast door is holding out but is getting warped by the barrage of this heavy blaster.

Uh.

So it always like, okay, I gotta buya this even more time for the doorskit fix and everybody to escape. I am going to have one on one with Riva. And so he walks up to the door and they communicate using the force through the door. She's like, I know you're selling for time.

It won't work.

Vader wants to capture you, wants to torture you, and he's here and he's not gonna be stopped and all that stuff. And then Obi is like, oh, interesting, how, by the way, how did you know that Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader. That's not a thing that anybody wants out there that certainly Vader would have wanted to keep that secret. How did you know? And then he works it out. Ah, you were a youngling. You were at the temple on the night of Order sixty six. You

I think I think you could have gone.

I think you could have opened the same way with the with the flashback to Order sixty six and then smash cut the Riva and we get it, like, I don't think you needed to hide this. I think it made it a little too Like I don't understand Reva's truly, like what's going on inside of Riva? That said, here is a confirmation of what we and many other people were saying, and all of which is say we are right. Riva then says, heartbreakingly, we thought he was there helpless.

This is how it happens.

It's not that you know and a Sith takes uh, you know, takes a learner, and that person then becomes so evil that they kill their master.

It's they're so tortured.

And and and uh and mistreated by their master that they feel like, I have to stop this person because that's doing good, Like it would actually be a good deed for me to kill this person. So I have to become powerful enough to do it. And that is how the dark side seduces you.

Yeah, I think that's such a good point, and I it's I totally get what you mean. I I like, I really love the revenge. I think that is the

Well, yeah, let's talk about these issues more in a bit, because I've really been thinking so much about the way Star Wars frames power and makes us empathize with people who have power. But let's table that for a second. Ben then makes a pitch Terariva, Hey, team up, like together, we can take him down. We can put a stop to this. I can help you do it. And Reva turns it around. It's like where were you that night?

Where were you?

He was your PoTA on what were you question this? Obie has absolutely no answer. Then Riva cuts through the gate, the blast gate with.

Drama.

Folks, Folks, why did we fucking set.

Up minutes or something like away wasting.

Amble with the heavy blust to get in there with the lightsaber?

Cut the fucking door open? Jesus, what are we doing?

Maybe I will say this is I'm I'm building a reading of Reva with some actions that she takes where it doesn't necessarily fully cohesively gel with what we saw of her in the first few episodes, where she was so yeah, just ruthless with the power that she wanted to have, that she was going to talk to a baby. But I do believe I feel like maybe the reason that she didn't do it straight away is because she didn't want the stormtroopers and the weapons to end up

Are you doing?

Baby?

Walk up, walk up and slice the door and then we're inside.

I know they also have more than one lightsaber in that cruise. Yeah, we know it. We know there's a lot of lightsabers.

Big fight pops off.

Obi uses the force to UH to push Reaver back outside the gate. And here we're seeing that Obi Wan Kenobi's connection with the forces is rejuvenated. It's growing stronger by the moment as he's reading scovered his mission to do good, to help people.

Uh.

And here we see a battle for every single inch of the facility, the the the the rebels, we're just gonna call them rebels, even though they don't think of themselves as quite that yet and they're not quite organized to do it. But this is this is the beginning of the ideology of the Rebel alliance. They are outgunned, but they're absolutely courageous, fighting and falling back all the

The door to it is like smallish, But once you're in the space, there's a lot of space.

Like Leya is could standing up like could you could?

They not have like sent up broken to like tell her about how it works inside old and she's just like driggs.

I mean, but still, you bro can get up there and be like, yeah, I think it's over by that. Why are you standing by the fucking button helping no one?

Just being like you got it yet? You gotta know she's deen help her out.

Anyway.

In the fight, Tala falls and this is heartbreaking.

Her loyal droid need Be then shields her with its body shades of Ktuso on SCAA. Tala then makes the ultimate sacrifice, detonating a grenade, killing herself in a squad of stormtroopers. But the sacrifice is absolutely crucial because it buys minutes that the rebels absolutely need to get away. Obi and the refugees are now falling back to the very very last position to the hangar. Bay Leah is up in the vent and again she's only ten, but she's kind of choking.

Here and is getting a little touchy. They're like, hey, how's it going.

She's like, I'm looking okay, listen, Prince Lea, I get it. You're put in a really tough position. No one is really helping you find the breaker. But like, can we tone down the attitude because people are dying down.

Like, people are getting fucking murdered down here.

So we're everyone's just like a little hot about when is the.

When are you going to figure out where the fucking breaker is.

I'm not blaming.

I'm not blaming You're not blaming anybody.

It is Also it is also how droid, which is close with this whole time, so like, very please observe the jeord.

Also, did you not like the eyes of the droid were very, very obviously red.

Did that not raise it?

They are corrupted, crystal red.

Like please, We're gonna need to unpack this when this is all over. But that's we're in an emergency right now, so let's just keep going with the facility breached. Vader is like, all right, everybody, time out, I'm coach, Vader is coming down.

I am getting on the field. I'm putting myself at the game. We get another flashback.

Anakin has now cornered his master against the balcony balustrade and batters him to the ground, but Obi won't admit defeat.

We go back to the present.

Obi, much to the contrary, is coming to a quite different conclusion about this battle on Jabeim. He decides, you know what, we can't win this. I am going to give myself to Vader and maybe that'll stop the carns. Broken is like, no, don't, which I was like broken.

Wait.

First of all, yesterday you were like, get this fucking Jedi out of here, and now this Jedi is like, well, I'm gonna I'm just gonna give myself to Vader and maybe that and now you're like don't Haja can't.

Believe it either. Obi wants just don't worry. Don't worry about it. Uh.

Then and truly like you crazy for this one obi Wan move. He gives up his blaster, lightsaber and cell phone.

Cell phone is the most important.

You know that.

Everything else you have the force, but the cell phone. Just keep it tucked in this side. Too many robe pockets, obi Wan.

Or take your lightsaber and destroy it. You've got the information. Don't let this fall into anybody's hands.

Just any deletes it.

I'm sure there's an option on that.

Yeah, there's gonna be a delete. Uh.

He goes over and he surrenders. Stormtroopers present him to Reva. Reva says, hey, guess what daddy Vader's on his way.

Uh.

And then Obi then says the absolute hardest line in the entire episode, bringing him to me.

I'm bringing him to you. Oh.

Now here Obi Wan is making a very very smart play, using almost sith.

Like seduction techniques, right but for good.

Here he says, Hey, getting in touch now with Reva's feelings, but from the light side, right her hopefully still intact instinct to protect the defensees. Hey, there's kids in here, there's families in here. You don't let Anakin do again. You're gonna murder kids again. We can end this together. I should add there are two hundred Stormtroopers watching this conversation too, talking loud.

Did we did we? Did we not just see them? Did we not just see them communicating via the force? They could have just been having a little you know what, This does play into one of my absolute favorite favorite like Star Wars things, which is just like Stormtroopers are like so sick of everyone ship. They don't fucking defeat Darth Vader. This ship is annoying, Like I want to go.

They're just like they're just talking about like critters and stuff.

That the longer it went on, I was like, you got to be joking. I was like, you two are not even whispering. I was like, this, this is going to end badly for you.

Uh So, Reva doesn't say yes to the pitch of let's take down, but she says, okay, but what do we do if Vader is expecting us to do that? Like that's this is all some elaborate ruse. Ben is like, don't.

Worry, he will be so laser focused on me.

He won't notice anything else, which is actually a pretty good point stormtroopers. Then the stormtroopers then escort obi Wan back inside the facility. Okay, table that detail for now. We go back to another flashback. Ben escapes the corner. He Anakin smashes the lightsaber out of obi Wan's hands, disarming him, but Anakin's lust for winning has blinded him to really what the Jedi's true weapon is, which is themselves and their desire to.

Do good and to protect people into uphold the light.

Vader arrives on Jabim in the present day and he's like, where the fuck is Obi Wan?

What happened? Do we not just have him? You had him? Really? What where you didn't you said? You just said you had him. You just texted me I got him? Is that not you?

And then Reeva's like, now he's in the facility with the two stormtroopers that we're escorting him in the facility, and then he got away and you gotta go chase him cause he's in there. Vader's like, fine, I'll go get him. Meanwhile, Ben is running towards the hangarbay. Leah finally in the event notices her good friend Lola. This is crazy shit. Here's Lola glowing red eyes right near the circuitry that has been fucking sabotaged that is keeping

Lea?

I realized that, Leah.

I love you. I love your short legs and your force fast running.

I love you.

But but but but in every other episode, this droid has been at your side. You are putting people's lives at risk for the joy. You love the droid. You look at the droid, you take everywhere with you. That is how they were able to put a try. But now the droid does a stranger. The droid is a mifty where's the droid who's how did it take her this long? I do not lie unless the droid had some kind of like the droid actually like had a

Sorry shock it. Leah sees Lola and is like, oh, Lola, hi, honey, where you been? Like what are you doing in this event? It's so weird that you're here where.

All the equipment is in sabotage and honestly would not have realized despite the glowing red eyes, except Lola then attacks her and she grabs she She grabs Lola and sees that it's got this bitty restraining well, this is very, very the smallest restraining bolt that has ever been put on a droid.

She takes it off and that fixes. That fixes stuff.

Lola's eyes all of a sudden turned blue and then Princess Lea is able to fix the doors. Doors are now open. The refugees are making a run for the transport ships. Ben arrives and is escorting Laya to the transport, but Vader is hot on their heels, and when Vader gets into the hangar bay, he sees one of these cruisers taking off it's about to take off.

And then, in an.

Indible display of strength and dark side power and will, Vader reaches out with the force pulls the ship back down as its thrusters are struggling mightily to have it. To have the ship power the ship out out of orbit, Vader pulls it down. It lands with a thud. He tears open the doors, peers inside the ship. But guess

Guess how that fucking goes?

Well, she yells, that's my biggest from that. She does a martial arts movie. Yell that is done so that for choreography, right, and martial arts movies. You yell so you know where you're coming from, so you can hit, so you can find It's incredible. My bat my dear, my dear, Reva, you could have just been quiet and stabbed him this again.

Also yeah, Also when he's like using all of his might to hold on to the ship.

And pull it back down to Jami. Yeah, right, then walk up and couple of.

Pa ray Vader that says he was wise to use you against me, and they fight, and it's a really cool reversal of the last bit of the duel that we saw in the past. Anakin verse versus Obi Wan in which Obi Wan disarmed just simply dodges all of Anakin's attacks.

Here, Vader does the exact same thing.

Almost using the pallos.

Yeah, telling you that he is he is still thinking about that duel he was remembering, and he's been thinking about that moment, and he is just dodging her attacks. She's swiping at him, swinging at him, slicing in him, and he is just dodging left and right, left and right. Finally, she ignites her lightsaber to its full length like a staff, like a long staff, and engages Inquisitor spinning mode with

It doesn't do shit.

All Spin Lightsaber Tech has ever done is defend against blasters kind of because the Inquisitors are not that adept at the Force, not like Jedi or Sith to be able to like block stuff, you know. So they have the spin, but the spin has never killed anybody who is trying to defend themselves.

It doesn't work. This is my ibi.

This spin doesn't work.

This show is truly bill on my my favorite. This is my inquisite theory.

None.

They are all like deep down, the light Side is just like making them shit. They like don't actually want to kill all the Jedi, so like every choice they make that should be like like making this super sick light but it never walks, like he doesn't worry. They have been like the most badass looking lightsaber in the whole world. Guess what, it's not gonna walk. So the Jedi again on A sixty six is failing. I feel like maybe that's actually the secret agenda at this point.

I know.

So she engages spin mode, Vader uses the force, he slows it down so it's no loger spitting, and then he disarms her, snaps her saber staff in two, and then gives her the other half.

I know that.

Read So now it's the first live action red lightsaber on red lightsaber duel in Star Wars history. This is iconic and historic stuff, folks, and a proper duel at which of what do you think?

It's fucking Darth Vader?

He wins, He gut stabs Reva, and she falls to her knees, and in that moment, her thoughts returned to the massacre and the fear of Order sixty six. Here it is happening again. Vader says, I saw the coming all along. He even, Yeah, now you're of no further use to me. And how did he figure out?

Well, Reva, along with the many, many.

Clues that you left, how about the fact that you had a public conversation in front of two hundred stormtroopers with Kobe Wan Kenobi about switching sides and betraying Darth Vader.

In front of two hundred.

Imperial soldiers who were just like, oh cool, this is a cool governsation.

So if that, if she remembers that night, which we know is like basically that's like the most important night in Anakin Skywalker's life and his transition to the dark side. Like if she remembers his face, he probably remembers the face of everyone who he killed or who he thought he killed. So she probably he probably just saw him and was like, I knew this was coming. Keeps him up in the back of the tank is like which one survived.

So Viva is perhaps mortally wounded. She's on the ground now, writhing in pain. She's in and out of conscious. This is barely holding on the real Grain Inquisitor comes out original the o G Grand Inquisitor, now fully healed from his gut, stab the back to tank doing It's where he comes out. And let me tell you, my guy is extremely proud of himself for doing.

Nothing, for.

He's just a fucking bog and here he here, he is, acting like he hit the game winner.

You didn't do.

Shit, He's a he's a smug jobs. He's like, look at me. You couldn't catch Obi Wan Kudobi. You couldn't stop Reva. You didn't know she was a spy. You did nothing apart from in the back to tank, which hopefully.

Yeah, other than tongue licking Darth Vader's armor clean. What do you do? He then here's what he does. He reaches down, he plucks the Grand Inquisitor badge off of Reeva's armor. He puts it on his own chest and he says see you later, Alligator.

Bye, and they don't kill her. They leave her there.

Okay, big mistake obviously, because well for Obi Wan really, because Reva sees Obie's smashed cell phone there on the ground, She's like, what's that?

She crawls over to it.

Darth vader, the grant inquiser gone, they have left name on quickly gone. He well, he needs to They need to catch obi Wan. So they needed to get a move on. So Reva crawls over, manages to get a hold of the phone and presses plate. Now it's been damaged and the message is incomplete, but she's able to make out uh, something about a boy, something about a person named Owen, and then the planet very clearly of

Ben Ben.

Consents with the force that something is wrong. The thing that's wrong is Reva just saw the message about tattooing and the boy and whatever. But he's he can feel it. Something is not right. Rocan comes up, It's like, hey you so it's a little bad news. Broken's like, hey, a little bad news. The dark our invadership is like right behind us and our hyperdrivers out. But you look like really pale. Obi Wan like you look like you just see are you good? And then obi Wan is

Baba baa. We go to end credits. Folks, Rosie listen.

I know, I'm, I'm have been very critical of Riuva's strategizing and her planning in this, but what a thrilling episode of television.

Yeah, this is so thrilling and it's so charming, and look, this is the real truth. And everyone who listeners knows this. We know this. We're positive people. We love this stuff. But you know what's really really fun about stuff that you love when you're talking about with your friends and you're like picking apart, like why would they do that? Like how does that work? You know, that's the fun

If I think that Leah and Luke are going to almost meet several times in Anguish It, it's gonna be like.

We're gonna be crying.

He had if he had just if.

Luke had just turned the corner and looked to his right, she would have been there. If if Leah had just done this, they would have met. I think we're gonna get a lot of near missus. And then I think you're right We're gonna be set up to have been as the more active protector of the young Luke Skywalker in the ten years that are gonna lead up to the eventual Battle of Yavin, the emergence of Luke Skywalker.

Actually putting the Force back into balance.

Tied Up in all of that, though, is how can we And I think that central idea, which is so compelling of like, listen, we've all done things in our lives that we feel bad about, you know, but that doesn't mean that you are beyond forgiveness. No one you can forgive yourself for the mistake you've made. Now we have not made mistakes that include like the wiping out of entire places, genocide, so complete planetary genocides, And that leads me this is where I'm not gonna say, I love Star Wars.

I'm very passionate about Star Wars. I'm sure everybody here listening understands.

That we are very passionate about Yeah, but my feelings are complicated in that. Can we how can we forgive Darth Vader for all of these stuff, killing the like the Younglings, various massacres across the galaxy in the twenty years until the Battle of Yavin, the destruction of Aldron. He didn't pull the trigger, but he was there. He was a part of it. He was part of the imperial regime that did that. How can we how can

She was one step away from doing it.

It just the torture machines took too long to boot up. How can we forgive her for all the things that she's done? Which finally leads me to my the final central question that other people who have listened to other listen to Benjamin Star Wars have heard me talk about this, which I want to pose now to you, Rosie.

Is that and it's my and it's the one, it's the it's the kind.

Of like you know how Anakin has like the hint of light inside of him still as he's Darth. Right now here is the hint of doubt inside me Regarding Star Wars and its depiction of forgiveness and power is that Star Wars hacks our empathy program, which is when we engage with stories we want to empathize with the person who has power.

We don't want to We don't want to.

Engage with a story about the stable boys before they learn how to use the Force, or the regular people in the galaxy who are just doing regular people shit, working like cutting whale blubber from the from some is on the sands of tattooing.

We don't care about them.

We want to know about the Sith, and we want to know about the Jedi, and we don't want to know about the Stormtroopers and the Inquisitors and all the stuff that they've done. But at the same time, there's like, this is a massive galact of war that has taken billions, if not trillions of lives, and we don't think about those people. And I and it just gives me pause because I feel like it's it's it's a kind of a metaphor for what we deal with in life right now.

We want to We want to even if it makes us enraged.

We want to think about the powerful people who are fucking things up rather than the powerless people who are under the boot of those forces. And that's what Star Wars makes me think about it. I was thinking about this entire episode. What do you think about that?

Was it?

I think that'd give you pause.

I think it's really true. I think it's one of the ultimate conundrums of Star Wars. It's also one of the talking points that I think fans talk about a lot. I think so. I think that for me, I feel everything. I totally agree with everything you're saying, but almost more from like an outside perspective, because I agree that that is a central thematic issue with Star Wars, and really any film about war, honestly, is it focuses on the people who are committing it rather than the people who are.

Victims of the people who won.

Yeah, the people, and also the history is told by people who won, right, that's what we always know that, But I have to say that I think that personally, like the one, especially as I've grown older, this has changed. But like going back to that central the first thing that we believe about it, right, which is the Vader. I really I don't know if I believe that we're supposed to forgive him or that it's supposed to be anything other than a father just doing the right thing

No?

But those political conversations no, But like those conversations of like and and and the Clerk's conversation. You know, I've brought that one up before, like all the people who died on the Death Star, Like when we start digging in to what it really means to live in that world, and we can be the ones who change the meaning of the story. We can be the ones who care about the young lings or the person who works. We can be the one who cares if Max Rebo, Max

That's a that's a great point, in a very powerful one. And I think the thing that keeps you and I and other people coming back to Star Wars stories so much. Uh, that's just very well said. We are the change in the story that we want to see from the story.

Uh.

I will say at the end of Return of the Jedi, when the fucking Ewoks are going ape shit and Anakin is there in his glowing ghost form, it does feel very celebratory of my guy.

Definitely, no Asterisk, this guy killed.

At that point, They're like, it's just your dad again, and I'm like, no, I'm going back to that one choice he made that one moment that also, I have to say, as a number one Ewok lover, I'm always just in that moment like yeah, like this is how you. The Empire baby is just like a bunch of crazy animals with sticks, Like they're just like living life with some quick flying around quick final question.

We gotta see Qui goun Jin in the finale, right, it's gotta happen.

Has to be, I feel like well, and I definitely think you touched on this earlier right where you were like we see in this episode that obi Wan is reconnected to the Force, and I also I like the kind of I don't ness. I feel like him, and I thought that they might lean into the idea of him and Anakin being some kind of creating like a Force diad, even though I know that that was more connected to like Sith bloodlines and stuff, but it seemed

Next quick question, are the Force users Fortress inquisitorious in some kind of stasis or are they dead? Secondary question off of that is that is Rocan's wife there, because it feels very much like why I mentioned it.

I'm waiting for that shoe to drop was going to show up somewhere.

His Rocan's wife, Mara Jade, who I was sure that I saw in he goes crazy. I would love that. I don't. I have to say it looks stacisy, right, I feel like it.

Looked stacisy with the eyes open like that.

Mike God says I. This would be my my my logical reading the Padawan, he looked dead. I think that was a dead body that they put into that because.

That creepy nobody's his face was all funked up like that may be sad rgy to that padawan, but I believe that it could keep dead bodies looking young so you can creepily look on them and be like, look.

At all these people we killed. Or it could potentially keep some people in a stasis style situation, and you know what, that would make a lot of sense, because, as we've said many times, not great actually stopping the Jedi, so putting them in stasis and then inevitably allowing some of them to escape is very much on the inquisitorious kind of path.

Well catch us next week when we will be talking about the Obi Wan Kenobi finale.

Dunt Dunt dum, Same bad.

Time, Same bad channel. Up next Hadmind featuring Danny Fernandez.

Oh hey, Danny, it's so gay to have you here on Extra Vision. How are you doing.

I'm doing good now that I get to see you.

Oh, it's so lovely to see you too. And I'm so excited to talk about your amazing comic book debut.

Thanks for supporting it. I saw you picked up a couple of issues.

So it's got to be done. I mean, we are living in a truly great time when we get to see our favorite superheroes openly celebrating queerness and celebrating pride and to us as fans, it means a lot, Like there are a lot of deep layered conversations to be had, but generally the fact you can go into a comic book shop, or a kid can go into a comic book shop and pick up an issue that says pride

No, it's like wild I've loved these two forever and I feel like kind of came full circle with them. So to me, they're like the two most iconic queer characters in like DC history, aside from Wonder Woman, which I love and am excited hopefully to see more of her queerness, especially in live action. I'm gonna like, yeah, you know, if you need a girl.

Everyone would love to see it. Danny, you could just be yourself. It's just wonder Woman.

It's just it's just Danny Fernandez.

So, like something that we always love to ask our guests when they kind of come on here, is what's your comic book origin story? Like, what was the moment that you fell in love with comics?

Yeah, so mine, I would have to say, is like comic adjacent and that I fell in love with manga, being like obsessed with DBZ. I have it tattooed on me. It's just so iconic and has affected so much other anime and other manga artists and storytellers and so I used it used to be really hard to get a hold of I want to tell people this, like you would.

The kids, like nowadays, they do not know the horror of like having to get the They would have like vouchers in the back of magazines and it would be like you just send off for a VHS and it's like three episodes it was thirty dollars, or like you said, it's like you've got to find little places. I remember in Soho in London there was an old laundromat that was actually among a bookseller and most of it was

Yeah, just like big storytellers that are making big action movies. I know Jordan Peele has talked extensively, uh and I know like friends that work for him that said in his office he had like anime. Yeah.

He actually he put the a Keurris slide into the International Note trailer. So when I saw that, I was like, come on, that's like, I know.

He said that that and then uh, Taika obviously because he was signed on to do that. But like Taika wa Titi, and there's so many people who have been heavily influenced. And this, this is always my soapbox, is that a lot of people will say, well, that's like super mainstream. Like let's say DBZ, which is one of the biggest anime of all time. Uh, like, oh, that's a real enormy one. And it was like, okay, but this normy one, which by the way, again was so

I like Superman and Batman. Yeah, you're living in an age where those are the most mainstream things ever. And I actually love how much more mainstream like DBZ especially has become, you know, with like record breaking box office for releases. Yeah, it just makes it more accessible. It means more people can find these stories.

Yeah, and it's just exciting to see because then it's like, Okay, well maybe you'll get a subscription to like country roll or some cruntry roll. Pay me because now I've said your name like three times.

Crunchy roll and also me a free subscription.

I've works with Funimation. I don't know if I've done stuff with crunchy Roll. Maybe I have. There's a lot of changeover. But was I gonna say, oh, yeah, so maybe you subscribe to it because of micro academia or whatever. But then you're finding because there's a wealth in a library in there, so then you're finding smaller ones that might be not as quote unquote mainstream, you know, and so that that is a good way to get in.

I also think as well, like it's a gateway for a reason. That's one of the few anime that, like you say, you could get a hold of even if it was hard to get a hold of. Yeah, and Salor Moon, those were that was your right. Salor Moon those were your two big available ones, and that's why to so many of us, they were such establishing kind of spaces and the place that we found that love. Yeah, so I guess because so Danny perfectly teased this at the beginning, it almost sounded like it was planned by

Yeah, you know, I grew up watching Batman, the animated series, and so I mean, I feel like we all did. But that was just so iconic still like beautiful artwork. I feel like you could freeze any element of that show. And also segueing in the fact that Kevin Conroy, who is the voice of Batman, who was the voice of Batman for so many of us growing up, it also has a story in this comic.

It is unbelievable. That is one of the bravest, coolest, most wonderful inclusions. And I thought DC did such a great job.

Yes, and so that's all to say. I first met them in animated form. That was my first introduction to them, and that kind of stayed. I my love of them over the years. Also would be in movie form, I would say, Uma, I will go to that literally any day.

So many articles. I love that movie. It's a masterpiece and Uma is That has got to be one of the best superhero supervillain comics time.

As a comic book writer, can we say it is one of the best adaptations of how a comic book feels. Yeah, it's campy a f If you've read a comic, especially nineties comics, they were so campy. The dialogue is so corny, you know, even even going back to Adam West, Batman exactly.

The one that channels it the most. And I think, yes, you can't like Joel Schumacher who made that movie. That's he's a gay icon and he made a gay iconic movie. And I saw, if you've got a problem with that, I can't relate to it because I love Batman and Robin We got the nipples.

You got book.

You know, and you have honest Watchnega. He's doing an incredible job. Like he is being as quippy as any Batman super villain should be. The costs designs are perfect. No, I feel you.

It's bright, it's beauty. It's so colorful, and when you watch it as a kid, it was like, yeah, this is exactly. These are my cartoons coming to life. This is the Batman that I know coming to life. This is the Poison Ivy, like this is this is my comic books coming to life. Also, I got to say before I hop off this because I know I'm supposed to be talking about HQ and Ivy. But George Clooney, to me, I think I tweeted this the best Bruce Wayne.

To me.

I also love Keith I mean, I love all the Batman but like Keaton is second. But I feel George Clooney's best Bruce Wayne philanthropist, like ladies man.

To me, he's absolutely the most believable ladies man. And I also I love him in that movie. So yeah, I love this and I'm so happy to find that this is another boom.

Literally I am posting by the time this has come out, I have posted a Poison Ivy photoshoot that I did h and I used one of her quotes about tending and it was like, come join us and come joined me in ten tend to my garden. So I'm all about it. I love her Poison Ivy.

In Incredible News, we have been joined by Jason Conceptio and my incredible co host, who was summoned by the mention of by manm.

Robbin nipples, nipples.

Nipples, nipples on the batsuit.

What a legendary that was.

I know what a legendary thing that was that they had the the nipples on the batsuit.

It was beautiful. I agree.

I was just listening in George Clooney is a fantastic Bruce Wayne so debonair and charming and brought a level listen. Keaton is great, I'll Colma very good, but like he brought a different level of like acting, maybe because I don't know if he liked what he was doing, but he brought like a different energy to it that was really debonair and good.

Yeah, yes, I love that, and it's like it's something I really liked about Robert Pattinson's Batman was how like grimy he was. That to me is like a realism Bruce Wayne. It's like he's like a Greebo who lives in a train station and can't go outside because he's dedicated his life to, you know, avenging his parents and

Yeah, you'll have to do a bonus episode, have me on to just watch it or like a watch along or something.

Yeah, we'll just do our own. It's our director's commentary. It's just talking about it. So yeah, You've talked about how you came to know these characters and love them, So what how did it come about that you were going to write them for this Pride issue.

Yeah, so I actually met with DC a couple of years ago and told them that I wanted to write them or like I said, Diana, who's another woman that's very near and dear to my heart. And then I just went off and wrote TV for a couple of years, mainly during the pandemic that I've been Actually, all the last three shows I've written on have been Warner Brothers shows. This is a Warner Brothers property. I'm working on a

Uh.

So we have some really beautiful scenes in the comic between the two of them.

Yeah. Something that I was going to ask you about one ges Chen is putting like, if you look at the best DC comics coming out right now, gess Chen's name is on them. So as soon as you said

Yeah, so we wanted something that was like if you know, you know, we kept calling it like the a tip of the hat, We're like, and then the tip of the hat. And so it was like, if you're into BDSM or you would you would very clearly identify the type of knots and body did or rap. What I will say is she's wrapped in Harley is wrapped in vines from Ivy. But if you don't, it just looks like she's wrapped up. You know, she's caught in this, in this trap. And so that to me is what

MM?

Apologies if you discussed this before, but.

Harlivey is one of the most beloved couples, probably in DC, maybe in comics in general.

What was it?

What was it about them that drew you to this idea of doing a story.

I just love that there's Yeah, I love that they're so unapologetically themselves, which is something the comics obviously are doing. But also I love seeing on HBO Max with the animated series is that they get because that's what they

Which I was like, I.

Was like, yeah, let me have them meet Danny Fernandez. Like, literally, Danny, I'll just put myself in the comics. I'm like, I've already been animated. I'll just put myself in the.

Girls animal Man style. You're just like the writer is in the book. No, I really love that and like something I thought was really cool about this comic which is out there now. So I'm gonna say this because I'm not telling the story, but it's a it's a

Yeah. I mean, I think these are two women who rightfully have walls, have so much trauma, and rightfully might not full haven't been exposed. I would say to the unconditional love, love without conditions, and they get that in each other. And I think it's still you know, when you've been burned so many times. I think we can all probably relate to this. When you have something that feels good, you sabotage it or you just question it. And so this story is kind of feeding into their

Brave what you talk about.

There, How these two characters have experienced a lot of trauma, come from trauma in a lot of ways. Something I think about a lot with comic book stories that are so rooted in you know, origin stories that are often terrible, horrific events, et cetera.

How do you.

How do you balance talking about trauma in a way that isn't exploitive?

Yeah, you know, like how do you how do you?

How do you?

How do you walk that line? And is there is there do you have like a meter in your head that lets you know, here's here's the kind of space that I want to work in when I'm talking about these kind of subjects through these.

Characters honestly with them. Well, to answer your question on like everything that I've worked on, it really just depends. Sometimes I pull in the trauma more just because I feel like the story calls for it, and to understand. I always say that it it explains someone's actions, it doesn't excuse them. I know that we're talking about that a lot in the mental health community, and so sometimes you need to know the trauma in the back. You need to see it to be like, why is this

Well, you know, you've seen it, you.

Know, and so do you need to see that? I think instead I just put snippets of it. Again, it's just a short story. But in my in my other creations, in my other work, definitely I might dive in a little bit more. I just feel like I'm kind of moving away more and more. I feel, you know, I feel I feel the audience knows. That's That's one way.

Yeah, right, But.

Watch I come out with something and it's just and people are gonna bring this up and I'll be like, oops.

Uh So I was like that kind of ties into something I was really interested to ask you about, which was like that balancing of like celebration and then like reality. You mentioned Kevin Comory has a story in this issue, which is this incredibly moving or biographical comic And you grew up like we both did, like we all did

It's very validating, It's very I have to say, it's very validating, like I'm so honored to write them. But I also just feel like I have been I mean, you know me for a while now, I've been hustling Rosy and I DM a lot because I'm always like, you know, I've been. I think I I was struggling to break into comics, I was struggling to break into TV. I've been, you know, despite my years of training that I've had both as a writer and an actress. This industry is not easy to break into, and even when

At that level.

They were like, that's exhausting. And so to have the validation of the years of work that I have put in, because I think if you're listening to you're like, oh, well this was just handed to her, I was like, no, no, no, no, there's years. Like I said that I've worked at Warner Brothers. There was years that I was working with, like I said, with DC and hosting and I having shows at Nerdice, talking to female creators like I've been doing the work behind this. I sold a show two HBO Max It's

And that's what this was.

And what that says to me is that I have made such a name for myself that they knew who I was, they knew my work, they knew the things I'd written for and been on that they trusted me. So I think it was just validation of all the years of hard work that I've put in behind the scenes, you know.

Pride to this year really has me thinking about the particular cultural moment we were in where it feels like you using the platform of anti transanimous, all of a sudden, all the rights that have been won in recent years

But largely, by and large.

LGBTQAI people won that one and continue to march on.

It doesn't feel like that anymore. It feels a lot scarier in fact.

So I was wondering if you could just talk about how it feels to have this story this year and what does it mean to what does pride mean in twenty twenty two?

Yeah, I really think that pride for me in twenty twenty two, like being openly queer, and even like wearing our flag, our rainbow flag, like feels like is an

So yeah, how does it feel then to be to have this platform to tell this story that is joyful and about queer love and about two women who love each other and a badass and and be putting that out in this space.

Yeah, I mean it feels it feels like I won, I mean, getting paid to write queer stories. But you know, I had a tweet that was, like, the gay Agenda is just keeping us alive. Like everyone keeps talking about the gay Agenda and Disney and the gay Agenda, and DC in the Gay Agenda, Marvel, and I'm like, we just exist, And like that's what I did with these two.

Able to you know, yeah, I struggle with that as well, in terms of you know, you know, like no one wants to to your point, no one wants. Everybody wants to just tell a story about people in love going about their day, living their life, unafraid to walk around and be themselves. And at the same time, man, does it feel ever more important sometimes to highlight Hey, this is here are the dangers, Here are the bad things

It's just that's why.

I'm so glad that we have you on and we're talking about this story in this issue, because it's just, you know, again, stuff that felt like I personally took it for granted, the progress that had been made over the last several years and decades now feels like, man,

That we have you on Well.

One thing I do want to say, though, is I would just encourage any storytellers that come from a marginalized background, obviously if you feel called to that story one hundred percent. We need those stories.

To me.

I had to start checking myself of why, Like when you said it was so important to educate it, so I'm like, well, who am I writing this for?

Yeah?

Do my people need to see more trauma? I don't know, they know it do, But is that a part of that story?

Sure?

That's why it's such there's no I want whoever's listening. There is no correct answer.

There's no correct answer.

It's just when you feel like, well I need to speak on this because they need to be seeing it, who is they?

No?

But seriously, A lot when we're talking about black and brown trauma. When you're talking about that, it's like, do they need like, do your own peepeople need to see that? And maybe your answer at the time is yes. Maybe the answer at your time is no, I actually just want to focus on black joy. I just want to

Is it for my people?

They're very aware of this, so who And that's fine. But I think it's having that conversation of our responsibilities, our platforms, and what you actually want to do. Like when I look at how many white group of friends just dicking around, like I want to write a story about my my dumb ass friends in college dicking around simply dicking around, just dicking around, you know, sitting on people's faces, dicking their dicks in places, and like know,

Okay, I'm just gonna just because i want to know this, this is okay, I'm really glad one, I'm really glad that we had you on. But like you know, talking about queer Supero is talking about your space, your platform, the stories you want to tell. Who is like the Supero that you would most like to play?

Oh gosh, you know, I look the most. I feel like Jessica Cruz. So I like, have fans do art and they've sent me art. This probably not like I don't know how I look now, but there are definitely times in photo shoots where like we have the same jaw so her I mean also another DC. Yeah, I think I'm trying to think of other ones, but she is the one that comes to mind the most so, and she's also a trauma survivor. Every superhero is a trauma survivor.

Every single there's not every single one. There's not a single one that that is not that, which is honestly, you know a lot of what I love about the genre and fantasy stories and sci fi stories because it's a lot about finding power from traumatic events and taking ownership of that and repurposing that, you know, under your own agency, taking those things that happen to you and

M hmm, yeah, yeah, I love that. That was very good, Jason. So have you watched Miss Marvel yet? Mm hmmm, And what are you feeling about it?

I loved it.

I saw it at the premiere. They showed us to episodes, so those are the I think I'm caught up now with everybody. Gosh, it is so refreshing, and I love the fact that it feels different than any of the other properties it. Honestly, the risks that they took and incorporating animation and things like that and the editing, which I want to shout out to the editors don't always get as much love, but like editing, the directing, like

And I love it.

Yeah, I love it. We loved it so much. And I love those aspects, like the way they build comics are and cartooning and all that kind of stuff into the production design is so inventive and fun. And yeah, I actually wrote a piece recently where I was like, she's definitely the MCU's first like for fledged cartoonist. But I had to shout out Miles because that was the

So cute.

Yeah, and our other big show that we're talking about a lot is Obi Wan And I know you are a Star Wars lover, so yeah, you have you been watching Obi one?

Yes, our friend Christina Aril is in it.

Yes, yes, I really should keet that one on the DLO as well.

Yeah, she's an Nda Nda. Yeah, so she's in it. Moses is obviously amazing, And yeah, I'm really excited for this next chapter in Star Wars. I'm super excited for Andorra as well. And just like I was on at celebration, I was on a panel about Latino in Space and I'm just like, we are taking over excited about Rosario as leads. So yeah, but I uh, same thing. I'm I'm I'm I'm curious to see what else they have up there up their sleeve.

Yeah, so it's very exciting time if you love this stuff. Tiring time, it's a lot of TV old time, but he's really exciting. Danny, thank you so much for coming on Extra Vision and talking to us about all this amazing stuff.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, it was such a joy. And where can people find you? And what do you have to plug? Just tell us everything.

Yeah, I'm at miss Danny Fernandez. It's ms d A n I F E R n A N D E Z and pick up DC Pride twenty twenty two, got my girls in it. So also our friend Stephanie Williams, she did Nubia, Yes, and she has a new new bea comic out. But you get to see them wrestling.

So hella hella. Yeah.

She was also like, what can I do? I bet? Yeah, you know, we just we're just we're just pushing our hot girl agenda. That's all. That's the agenda.

So Danny, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you up next nerd Out.

Yeah, in today's nerd Out, where you tell us what you love and why, Micah pitches us on Pixar's Toy Story franchise to mark the release of the latest film in that franchise, Light Year Out.

Now my name is Micah and my nerd out isn't exactly an obscure property, nor is it especially new, but it's something that I just redove into and it really blew my mind. This time around, I'd encourage everyone to give it a second or third, or hell, maybe even fifteenth. Look, I'm talking about one of the greatest movie franchises ever made. Toy Story. The first movie deals with external threats as what he tries fending off his perceived enemy in Buzz.

Thanks Michael for submitting. If you want to be featured, send your nerd out pitch to x rayac Cricket dot com. Instructions in the show notes, Big thanks to Danny Fernandez, and of course big thanks to Rosie Knight for hosting this episode with me. Rosie Plugs, Plugs, plugs, what do you have to plug?

You can still unbelievably excitingly, you can still pre order my Godzilla comic and when this episode comes out, there will be an exclusive preview of that Godzilla comic on nerdest dot com where you can see some of Oliver Ono's amazing art. And you can find me at Rosie Marx. That's my Instagram and my letterboxed and then you can find me here talking about all this good stuff.

Yes, folks, you want to check out our videos on the Uncultured YouTube channel, You got to do it. Check the show notes for the listener's guide to X ray Vision, where we provide more details and all the things that we talk about in the show.

Catch the next episode on June twenty fourth, when we will continue to dive into the feast of content with Workodobie and Miss Marble. See you next time.

Don't forget five star ratings on all the platforms where you could give us ratings. Either give us no review or a five star review. Those are your two choices. That's the diad, that's the light and the dark of it, the light being five star reviews. X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord and Sol Rubin. The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy Road are editing and sound designers.

By Vascillis Photopoulos.

Dilon Villanueva and Matt de Group provide video production support. Alex Wellaford handle social media. Thank you Brian Vasquez for a theme music.

See you next time.

Everyone, Everyone, the Empire is here with approximately five hundred heavily armed stormtroopers. There's an imperial ship up there with enough firepower to turn us all to ash. They have a heavy blaster which, once screwed into the ground, will pound through our blast doors in something like ten or fifteen minutes. But of course that doesn't matter because they have two lightsaber wielders who can easily cut through the blastors.

Obi wan uh are you getting to the part where we're gonna win this?

No?

Hold on, no, please don't interrupt me. I'm losing my train of thought.

Okay, once they get in here, if we try and stand and fight them, we're fucking done. They're gonna cut us up like sushi. My friends, We're dead. Just who's crying? Stop that child from crying. I'm trying to make an imported announcement about the dangers we face.

It's okay, though, because I have a plan. Here's the plan. Run Run for your lives. Run to the ships.

Get out of here now while you still survive.