Worrying. Today's episode Canad spoilers for the fourth episode of Daredevil Board again on Disney Plus. Hello, my name is jas Conception and I'm Rosey Night and welcome back to x ray Visions, a podcast where we dive Dee, the Dear famborite shows, movies, comics of pop culture. Coming to you from Myra podcast, where we're bringing you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, plus news on the weekends.
In today's episode Bread, we're talking about dead Evil bort a good episode one oh four Bread. How'd you feel about that?
Bread? And a reminder that our book for this month is The Merchant and the Alchemist Gate, the first short story in Ted Chang's amazing short story collection Exhalations. Very happy to see how many of you have picked this one up, so find yourself a copy and read along before our episode on March twenty fifth. If you want to send us any questions, you can put them in the discord or email us official XRV pod at gmail dot com.
We start with Hector's effects getting bagged up his white tiger suit his magic ambulance. Matt takes charge of the stuff and goes to the Emmy. He gets the cause of death, single gunshot went to the head. And then Hector's niece Angela shows up, and she is, of course very angry. She believes, and I think Matt believes us well, that this is a dirty cop operation. Understanding Matt, Yeah, that they were pissed they lost the case and so
they took matters into their hands. That's certainly what she believes, and I think Matt thinks that's possible as well, considering that they did try to kill him, try to kill the witness recently. So Matt tells her, listen, I'll look into it.
I was just gonna say, I do think it's interesting we properly meet Angela here in the comics. Angela does become the next generation of White Tiger. I would be interesting if we could see her in some kind of Young Avengers type situation in the comics that Alex Malieve Brian Michael benistetevil stuff that is definitely like a big influence on this From the late nineties, that is where she first appeared in issue fifty eight of volume two, she was much like sexier and a more classic kind
of adult superhero. But I do think that there is an interesting connection here to other street level heroes because of the heroic legacy of kind of the White Tiger comes from Kunlun, and so I do think there's some kind of interesting connections here, and I would be very intrigued to see them at adapt this in a different way that does not rely on her being kind of
a federal agent, and it's more about her youthfulness. Also, I did feel like when Matt was hugging her, he was kind of very much putting the suit and the magical amula and the bag near her. So maybe we'll see that, not in this season, but maybe maybe Dana was season two, maybe a future Marvel project.
Yeah, cool to see.
I'm happy to potentially see the legacy of White Tiger carry on.
We see in a short scene right after his Muse, the series of Killer Muse carrying what is a victim, certainly a victim his leaders into the subway tunnels where the Muse will carry out his gast really work. Meanwhile, Dan, assistant assistant to the Mayor, Dan is just out partying with Bebe and at first you're like, why is beebe partying with this guy? And then you realize that Bebe is just pumping this guy for information.
He is getting absolutely played on, like a whole different level. And throughout this kind of great sequence you really get to see how Boebe is kind of manipulating him for what she believes to be the bag.
Right, so you know she's getting on him. You know, Dan's like, well, I can't I can't drink, I can't do ketymine tonight because I have to go.
I have to go.
I know I had a young writer on this ship. Kevin dropped like that was that was really guys. Let me just say Kennyman has been around. Kean has been around since the nineties.
Like, K holes are a thing.
K holes are real.
If you were out in the streets in the nineties and two thousands K holes were there, you've been falling into. So bb is getting on him for what you know, you could be on the on call for the mayor at all hours. You have more people Wilson, Fisk and Dannis like, well, you don't understand. We've got this huge thing coming with the port. Wilson has this whole recycling center. He plans to take the city recycling in garbage over to the private sector and like make it more efficient.
He's going to hire contractors. It's great idea. He's going to turn the port into this whole garbage recycling cent I think it's brilliant. And meanwhile Bbie is trying to keep Dan out so he can.
Keep Yeah in fun.
But Dan decides to leave. Matt gets a call from Kirsten. She tells him we've got your your next case. It's a gentleman by the name of Leroy Bradford. He was arrested for shoplifting some stuff from a local board data fiddle, faddle, and we're taking this pro bonum at therapy. Heather asks Fisk and Vanessa listen. I know this is tough, but I think it's time, and I think it's time to just discuss the affair with Adam and Fisk does not want to, but Vanessa is like, I've been waiting for
this because, let me tell you, Adam's hands. He was an artist. He had these strong hands.
It's creative way. I don't know why she's him up like that, like that was never gonna end well for you. Oh Adam, babe, he's.
Such a talented artist. And Fisk is like me, I never thought about cheated Vanessa. Ever, by the way, I believe, I believe, I believe, I'm one hundred percent believe it.
There's nobody more fable to his wife and the in fiction or.
Reality that the world's biggest wife guy like, no question, one hundred million.
And Vanessa, meanwhile, I was saying, well, whatever the case may be, you were not.
Here, you were you left me, and that was the betrayal.
Yes, you didn't know if you were dead. I don't know if you were alive. It was like no contact. You were just off the face of the earth. And it reminded her of her dad, who was a traveling businessman habitually cheating on her mom. And Vanessa says, She's like, you know, I'm concerned that Wilson could hurt Adam, and Wilson then admits to having quote a dialogue, just a dialogue, dialogue with him, totally fine, just a conversation, no violence.
He says, like, I'm not that guy anymore. And then after the session, Heather, picking up on the vibes I think, very responsibly takes vanessa'side as like are you safe? Do you feel safe? For you fine? And she's like, no, I'm fine.
Yeah, I like that. She is a web.
Vanessa's like, look, the reason I had an affair is because there's many things that my husband would do, terrible things, extreme things, illegal things.
And she's like, but and me, he just can't do it.
I'm away wife. Guy like, it's not gonna happen, Heather. I appreciate your good parraprising hair, but I gotta say you're putting yourself in that cross hairs. Wilson Fisk is not gonna want to hear about that.
I'm sorry.
Let's go to Akick cat Break and then we'll be right back after a word for Worces. Yeah, and we're Matt Matt at the police station meets his client, Leroy Bradford. Mister Bradford is not impressed with Matt. He does not. He's thinking, I got a blind lawyer. They gave me a bad lawyer. I can't believe this. He denies stealing the fiddle Fattle. Matt is like, there's a lot of evidence, and Bradford is like, well, I paid for it last week,
and Matt's like, that's not how it works. There's a fun line here where Bradford's like, could it have been a scroll? And Matt is like no, and then Bradford's like, listen, I'm not taking a place, so you need to go actually.
Do your job.
So Matt mat, Yeah, Matt goes to the DA and turns on the I am handsome Matt Murdock charm dude.
The way that women just fall for him in this show is maybe the most comics accurate thing.
I love yes, because yes, very comic.
In the comics, like women love Matt murdocc and yeah, he is literally like flirting with a woman trying to get which you know what, use your flirtation skills for good whatever, But it.
Is so funny this sequence.
You're just like, Okay, I guess you are charming her.
You're doing it.
Yeah. He At one point he's like says something about he references dating life, and she's like, I think I'd like to know more, she says, or something like that.
He's like he's like, uh, you know, my other senses are heightened, and she's like, well, I would like to know that. And also he's like okay.
He's like, you're gonna be harsh to me on Latvian Heritage Day, the day of your heritage, and she was like what how do you know?
So?
How do you know that?
How do you know that?
Also, fantastic exposition there for because later that will become a blot point.
But yeah, just such a fun scene. And he does a good job charming.
So he gets ten days served, not probation, but ten days served, which you know, I think all parties agreed like this is pretty good.
It was meant to be thirty five days and then Matt got it down and really it would just be a few days, so it seems like wet time.
Served with the current time served. He runs into dirty cock Powell and all but accuses Powell and friends of murdering murdering Hector Ayala, but Powell denies it, and Matt can tell from his heartbeat that he's telling the truth. Powell dirty cock Powell then threatens Matt with disbarment and a beating, and Matt says, okay, well the first one I don't think you can do. In the second one, bring more.
Guys, dude, that's such a good line. When he was like, I guess you'll have to bring more than the last time, is.
Like I beat the shower of two of you.
WHOA Yeah, incredible obsessed I Love You got a red hook where Fisk is showing his team his plans for the privatization of the port. Fisk doesn't care about the red tape and all the city council stuff and all the okay is that they need to get He's just like,
let's just do it. Sheila's like, well, shouldn't we think smaller because we've got this mob war that's like kind of brewing, and we need to start like a construction project with some panels and some studies first to show that you're serious to the city, and we need to get this on the docket of the public advocate. And Fiscus like, okay, do it.
Yeah, He's like, okay, it sounds realistic. Like I'm gonna wait for this show.
Buck Cashman warns Fisk meanwhile that you know, Sheila's right about that mafia ward, it's going to be a problem. Leroy argues with Matt he's not happy about the ten days. He wants probation still, and Matt is like, listen, this is as good as it gets. And then Leroy goes on a impassioned monologue about just how difficult it is to be entangled in the legal system. And be poor, and Matt is like, Okay, you're right. Yeah.
It was good because I like the way that Matt kind of Matt was still full of like the vim and vigor of charming a lady and getting it down, and to Matt it's just kind of paperwork. And then he has the pal interaction where he's feeling pretty good and then goes back to Leora and he's like, h shouldn't this be like a thank you counselor, and they were is like fuck you, Like I'm gonna tell.
You like this is I'm actually eating some stealing.
Some fucking fiddle battle. He's like, they cut my benefits off. I thought that was such a great sequence and I kind of loved how at the end Matt just had to be like, yep, you're right. And the kind of realization and recognition of what Matt can't do within the kind of system was really good.
Fisk goes on his meat mayor Fisk Handshake tour to like local schools and then, as you mentioned, the Latvian the New York Latvian Association, where at every stop they're singing, we built this city to Wilson Fisk, and he is becoming more and more well, he's stream while the BB report dropped it's skating peace with uh you know, Intel sourced directly from assistant to the Mayor Dan about how Mayor Fisk plans to use tech companies to undercut the
Department of Sanitation as as part of his plan for Red Hook. And this is the result again of Dan blabbing while on Kendeman and alcohol. Fisk is really really really pissed. There's an all hands meeting. Dan takes full responsibility and says, looks and I was drunk, I was in a k hole. Is like, maybe you shouldn't tell me about that part of it, and then he basically is like listen, I will do I am your loyal soldier. I will kiss your feet, I will do whatever it
takes to make you happy. And then Wilson Fisk is like, well, okay, fine.
Yeah, but he's like, boh, if you do it again, I'll kill you. But I will literally kill you.
Also interesting evolution hip because Sheila and Fisk I definitely was not sure about her place in the Fisk administration, but because she takes responsibility and says, hey, whatever Dan did, like, blame it on me. It's not on him, like I'll take the full Suddenly, Fisk is like, wait a minute. These are two people who I think I'm gonna have on my team and see how this goes. Also, I love that Phoebe's headline was just mad garbage and then
he keeps it. He's like, maya garbage like garbage man like bb that she was catching it gone to his skim babe, like good job.
At night. Matt goes to the site of Hector's murder and using his heightened senses, figures out where the shellcasing would have rolled and he finds it, and he finds that it's engraved with a Punisher logo. So Matt goes to see Frank at Frank's hideout, which Matt. I love that Matt knows where it is.
Yeah, He's just like this motherfucker is like a Janita somewhere, and Matt's like, where he is.
That's my pal, that's my friend.
Let's go to a quick break and we've right back. Yeah, and we're back.
So at the Punisher's hideout, which is like in the bowels of some buildings somewhere where I think you're right, he's either working at day job as a janitor or his is being hidden by janitarial staff or something.
Because he's like a janet's jumpsuit. But also the place is just full of like AK forty seven.
There's a gun.
Everywhere, Like it's really like no one's like coming in and being like yea, yeah, this guy's the super nothing wrong here, like no.
Yeah, nobody's like no, nobody's coming down there to be like, hey, my radiator is the work, like clearly because he's and it's not just the guns and the ammo, but he's got like a whole one wall is just like a board of like targets, like full of people like he's gonna kill yeah, And Matt and Frank pick up right where they left off from their previous interactions, arguing about, you know, in a philosophical way about the nature of
the work they do. Man, it's like, you know, I kind of need your help, and the city in fact needs your help, Like couldn't you start doing more like crime fighting stuff? And Frank is like fuck that shit, And then he's like, by the way, have you seen this? And then he shows him the bullet casing. I love that. Matt immediately knows it's not Frank.
Yeah, I know, I thought that was really great where it was like they already kind of had this recognition of these, you know, to quote them bullshit famboys. Yeah, like that's that's something that has been going on, exists, And both of them are awhere like it wasn't him, Like, that's not what Frank does.
So Matt's like, you know some of those fan boys or cops, and Frank's like, okay, what's that. That's not my problem. Frank is completely uninterested in doing crime fighting stuff. And then he turns the tables. He says, like, why did you really come here? What's the real reason? I think you came here? Because you want permission from me the guy who actually kills the bad guys to kill the bad guy, the bad guy being Dexter Bullseye, who killed your good friend Foggy say his name? Why don't
why can't you even talk about Foggy? Why you know, why are you not? Like? What about what about Fogster?
What his name name?
Matt breaks down, gets very upset, punches Frank and then apologizes and he's like listen in a very an almost like frantic, tearful, emotional explosion, says Dax cat Life. He got multiple life terms. The system worked, but it's clear that like the way he's saying it, he doesn't even really.
No, and he's like crying.
I thought this sequence was so good, and I had to say it builds on something that I think this show is doing immensely well, which is recognizing and accepting the past of the Netflix shows but not letting them overtake whatever this new kind of vision they have is. Because you know, obviously Foggy IRFP to that man, he's dead. Karen,
we've barely seen her. She's in San Francisco now, and now we get this really great interaction between Matt and Frank, and you know what, we might never see Frank again this season.
You never know. And I kind of love.
How self assured they are in making sure that if these people are here, it's not just for a cameo.
It's part of this wider journey that Matt is on. And you know what, Frank's not wrong. Also, Matt kills people all the time.
I'm sorry, I don't believe it traumatic, not canonically, but like in the show when we see the traumatic bris injuries he's given.
For sure, but no, no, but I love this.
I think it's the strongest part about the Punisher and dead evil stuff they set up before and it was great. And I think that this also, you know, in a writing kind of success, but also in the power of Charlie Cox's performance. This is directly throwing back to that moment where we see des get life and Matt looks like furious in the court room. It's almost because it's like it's not enough, you know, for him. So I think that that is going.
To be a huge part of where we go from here.
I also think to your previous point about like do this does this show have the chops? I think that this conversation shows that they continue to have the chops. The Punisher is it is a character because of his use of guns, because of the fact that his symbol in real life has been a opted by cops. Is complicated and I think the Netflix series was maybe not ready to deal with that reality, and this show is dealing with it in a very well rounded, clear eyed way,
complex way that I think is really interesting. Like I could listen to these guys argue for the entire episode. I think this is I think it's a really interesting conversation about the nature of heroism in this world. That night over wine, Fisk tells Vanessa, whoa wait, we should get back together.
We should do it.
We should do it.
I love I would never do anything to hurt.
You specifically, but other people I would have many times.
Has got me a big problem for us. Actually.
Matt, meanwhile, having date night of his own, he comes home to find Heather is there. She was worried about him because he was out crime fighting or whatever, you know, like investigating and doing what he was. They have this wonderful again the writing really good, this wonderful, real, real feeling exchange where she's like, you know, it's I know that you can handle yourself, but also it's like, because you're blind, this other side of me comes out. It's like,
weirdly that's protective. I'm not that person, but I worry about.
You, and I like, I really like the moment where she's like, if you're just out doing your thing and I'm doing my thing, I'm not worried.
But the moment I stay.
Over and you don't come back, suddenly I'm like, wait, what happened? Did he walk into traffic? Like she says all this early silly stuff, but there's so much truth it feels real. I have to say, Look, it's kind of interesting to see, you know, a superhero show where the morals and the kind of relationships are often very black and white, very This is a very situation ship type.
Yeah, being to a.
Relationship where it's like this, you know, he's flotting with the other women. He is, you know, still probably got feelings for Karen, but this woman's staying in his house, she's thinking about it. Just felt very real to me, in the same way that that Matt and Frank conversation felt real. I think the writers in this show just keep delivering.
They've done a great job. Matt puts on the charm and the pair have the kind of fully satisfying love making session that you don't often see, even suggested on Disney Plus, and this is certainly suggested. This is certainly suggested here. Matt, unable to sleep after goes to the roof to visit his Dearedevil stuff. He's got his whole like Dearedevil. Yeah, he's got like many masques.
It's his little dad devil back cave.
He kind of goes through and I feel like there's this I just felt like they do a really good job of kind of spending time with him. He looks at all the different masks, he looks at the differ from versions of the suit. He's kind of having that conversation in his head of which hero do you want to be? And they don't need a voice over, they don't need to tell you. It's just so clear by by what he's doing. And it's really interesting.
I also love the I mean, this is a small point, but like the dichotomy of Frank underground Matt above ground on the roof, like they both have their little store rooms of stuff but in different places, like kind of mirroring their status as heroes and anti heroes. And so Matt goes to his stuff and then he trains a little bit clearly, Yeah, training.
With his like cool mace or something like. It was like it was like it was like a chain.
And Uppi and chain and yeah, Rabba as very finish him, almost very kill Bill, very kill Bill. Also as well, another great kind of dichotomy and reflection here which has been going on throughout the show is kind of Vanessa and Fisk and their closed off relationship, their lack of honesty, and then we get see Matt and head that having this real honest conversation. And then as Matt is training, we kind of cut back to Fisk and see how he deals with his issues.
So we go to Fisk, who is one thing I've noticed. I think that one of the ways and I think this is so smart that they are marking the evolution of Wilson Fisk from guy trying to be just the straight up mayor to the kingpin again, is his food is getting more opulent.
At the beginning, he's just eating like a little plain, a.
Little strip of something and some vegetables on the side, and it's a very small and now we see him digging into like this pile of pasta with sausage laid over the top. It looks really good. And he's down in his basement eating next to a cage in which he keeps Adam.
Well, this answers our question why he did somebody kept in prison. We were right about that, but I have to say I thought it was just gonna be a gang Bossel.
I did not perceive that. I did not know.
I did not see that coming. It's clear Adam's been there for a long time. Adam is beauty, he's I don't know if his hands are looking great, and Wilson's just sitting there eat opulent, eating his little dinner, just looking at him like.
Yes, you shouldn't have slept with my wife.
I'm like sorry, And Adam is clearly starving as well, Yeah, yeah, I need food, like and he's like, yeah, it's just because like eating this big pile of pasta.
He's like, not happening for you.
And also as well, obviously a great point here, which is like Wilson's idea of what it means to be honest to Vanessa and be open is never gonna really lead to anything positive.
That's right.
But say, I did think it was.
Pretty hilarious when in the moment of the therapy where Vanessa and Fisk were both being asked by Heather like where's Adam now, you know, they both say I don't know exactly the same time. So I'm also like, hey, I don't know, maybe this is what gets them off. Maybe Adam's down there like maybe this was the compromise.
You're not gonna kill him, but you can keep him prisoner. I don't know.
Those two are really messed up, But Wilson, you gotta get this has gotta stop. You gotta I guess i'd say let him go, but that's never gonna happen.
So you've got to.
Happen, Wilson is. I mean, you're exactly right in that. I think this is his version of telling the truth, which is like this very legalistic. Well, I'm not that guy anymore. There's been no violence, which is like, clearly you've been beating on the guy. But like, but he said he.
Wouldn't kill them.
Yeah, he's alive still, So yeah, Wilson clearly still the man he always was. Then we go to the subway tunnels where Muse is draining the blood of a victim for use in his street art. This is how Muse paints his murals using the blood of his victims. Then we cut to the credits. Another great episode.
Of Okay, so is Muse?
Now we've kind of gotten about I look at the mosque, which I love this design. I think it looks great.
Is Muse?
The kids who came to had the Glenns signing and said I need help.
I think so too. I think that's what the kind of implication is.
The energy was like the insistence, the air of desperation. It I think clearly it's going to be that.
I'm very interested to see if because this is again taking from the Charles Saw stuff, which we know is a really big influence here with a Ronghani legend. You probably most recently people know him for doing Bazaka with Keanu Reeves and Matt kint.
This is really interesting stuff because.
In the comics, Muse is an inhuman and also Muse like kills in humans, and this is very much around the time that Wilson is rising to powers mayor and his establishment of anti vigilante laws, which we are seeing, so this all.
Tracks with the comics. I'm just interested to.
See if they continue the route of Muse bringing bigger and more violent art to life, because he begins, as we see here, with this blood mural and they find out it has the blood of hundreds of people. But next he kind of poses dead in humans. It gets a lot more Hannahbalish, and then soon it's a very very interesting kind of reveal of what his powers are. Essentially a power to be overstimulated, which I think is
the worst superhero you could ever deal with. But yeah, I'm I'm very interested to see what happens because I think there could be some interesting routes from the comics where kind of Muse and punishes stories intertwine and become part of Fisk's anti vigilante kind of stuff. But I'm just interested. I didn't think that we would get Muse.
I know we'd seen him in the trailer, but I mean pre that, I just thought, this is a really dark storyline, and I think maybe this is where they're gonna real Obviously, end of episode three with Hector being shot in the head was just as brutal as anything you'll see on the Netflix show. But I wonder if this is where they're gonna go. Oh, actually, we can go even darker, Like we can do something scarier, we can kind of Hannibal Lek to this a little bit.
I'm intrigued. I like mus I was a fan of that. There was a lot of plotline around this time that was similar. DC also had a hero like a villain like this, a kind of our super villain. I'm interested to know what that kind of represents, maybe a reaction to Banks or something.
I'm not sure, but yeah, I want to.
Know where this goes next because it feels like it's gonna go really, really dark, but this show has done a good job of surprising me and kind of balancing the charm of the MCU with the bleakness of the Netflix shows.
In the next few episodes of X ray Vision, we have our second book club meeting. Make sure you read the wonderful first story in Ted Chang's Exhalation collection of short stories. And then on Wednesday we'll be reacting uh oh finale season two of Severn's Hopefully it won't be another two plus years before we get another fingers Crossed season of that. And then Thursday we're gonna react to the Double Daredevil drop of episodes one oh five and one oh six. That's it for this episode.
Thant for listening, Thank you for listening, Goodbye, Goodbye read.
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan, and Fay Wax.
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and Heidi, our discord moderator,