"Charles Xavier is a Jerk?" - podcast episode cover

"Charles Xavier is a Jerk?"

May 16, 202446 min
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Episode description

It's finally arrived, like an asteroid flung through the sky by Magneto, X-Ray Vision is here with special guest x-pert Marvel and DC writer Stephanie Williams  to chat about the X-Men '97 Season Finale! 

In the Previously On Jason and Rosie catch up with all that good X-Men and Marvel news including new release dates and new comics series. Then we're stepping into the Airlock to break down that wild finale with Stephanie Williams, answering all your burning x-questions and chatting our favorite cameos.

In the Omnibus, Rosie recommends five must read comics after finishing X-Men '97 which you can read more about in the show notes. And finally in the Who's Who's we're talking the weirdest and worst X-Men antagonists! 

 

Follow Jason: twitter.com/netw3rk

Follow Rosie: IG & Letterboxd 

Follow Stephanie Williams IG & Tiktok

Follow X-Ray Vision on Instagram

Join the X-Ray Vision Discord

 

Comics to read after X-Men '97:

  • Giant Size X-Men (1975) 
  • From the Ashes (1981)
  • Inferno (1989)
  • Fatal Attractions (1993)
  • E is For Extinction (2001)

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for X Men ninety seven and the wider X Men comics Cannon.

Speaker 2

Hello.

Speaker 1

My name is Jaconceptium and I'm rosday Night, and welcome back to x Revision, the podcast where we dive deep to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. Coming to you from iHeart Podcast, where we're bringing you two episodes a week every Tuesday Thursday.

Speaker 3

In today's episode, in the previously on, we're ripping our Canuk claws into all the X Men and Marvel News you can shake a Wolverine at In the airlock, we are diving into that wild X Men season one finale with special guests and expert Stephanie Williams. In the omnibus, we're going to dig into the best comics to read after X Men ninety seven, why they're important, and where they fit into X Men history.

Speaker 4

But first, it's a previously on.

Speaker 5

First up.

Speaker 1

New Dazzler, Storm and Avengers titles have been announced by Marvel Comics on the app formerly known as Twitter and other social media feeds. Your thoughts Rosy about this, I think it's cool.

Speaker 3

I'm glad to see Dazzler getting her shine me and Nick recently all the Dazzler Original Comics series. The covers are amazing, the issues are you know, Okay, So I'd like to see I get a good solo series. I want to see Storm get that solo series. We have Stephanie Williams later. If they were going to pick someone to write that Storm series, I would hope it's going to be steph It's going to be interesting to see them launch this from the Ashes era, which is kind

of this new X Men era. The interesting thing is we also learned that Storm is going to be joining the Avengers. In Avenger seventeen. They called her Earth's My Ears mutant. I'm down for that. I totally believe it. Someone in our discord made a great point though. This means there are going to be eleven titles in the X line if you include X Men, Uncanny, X Men Extraordinary, X Men, Phoenix, X Force, NYX, Wolverine, and then these new books.

Speaker 4

So that seems like a lot.

Speaker 3

But from what I've been reading, it's not necessarily a you have to read everything.

Speaker 4

I think it's more of a jumping on point. So what of the books you're most excited to see?

Speaker 1

Gosh I am an X Men always, X Men and Uncanny are gonna remain my mainstays as usual, and then Phoenix Storm X Force are probably the ones that I'm gonna concentrate on, and They'm gonna dabble in the rest. But honestly, this, I mean it feels like the nineties again when there is suddenly an explosion of X spinoff books with X Factor and Yx and all the others and new mutants, and so it's giving me nineties vibes.

Speaker 3

Yeah, which I can never complain about because we're nineties babies.

Speaker 4

So very fun.

Speaker 1

New Marvel release dates from The Hollywood Reporter. Daredevil Born Again will be seen in March twenty twenty five.

Speaker 5

Very interesting.

Speaker 1

Agatha all Long The Scarlet which spinoff series will be on September eighteenth, iron Heart not canceled, Shotgan hitting the screens next year, and then Marvel Television has been rebranded branded again as Marvel Television, joins Marvel Studios, Marvel Spotlight, Marvel Animation and Special Presentations. If those are still acting.

Speaker 4

Yeah, it does this take those over who knows?

Speaker 5

But good for the sea.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 3

And also I'm a big fan of the fact that Agatha All Along has had so many different names, and it feels like this name is like a final joke because they kept renaming it, but it was just.

Speaker 4

Agatha all along. And I'm excited that that's going to hit this year.

Speaker 3

We weren't expecting that to happen, so that'll be a lot of fun to cover.

Speaker 1

Coming up stepping out of their lock and talking about the finale of X Men ninety seven.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Stephanie Williams is a cultural critic, superstar, meme maker, and writer behind some of your favorite comics like Nubier and the Amazons, Living Heroes, Mungo and Devil, Dinosaur, Rock and Roll, and more. She's also a world class Charles Xavier hater and X Men expert, so the perfect guest for this episode.

Speaker 6

Hello Stephanie, Hey, I am so happy to be here because I have not been on the app formerly known as Twitter. I haven't been able to like really you know, like shout from the rooftops. I was right this whole time.

Speaker 4

You were like, I need people to know it's not originally Charles hater.

Speaker 1

We've been here, they're seeing the lights. Finally they're seeing I must admit people. People will post it us and messages like Charles has Charles had always been this.

Speaker 4

Naive Yes, I never forget.

Speaker 3

In the Discord, one of our amazing Discord members was like, so, wait a minute, is Charles like not a good guy? And everyone in the Discord just went boom every Everyone's like there were seats, there were seats, there were seats like this matter mistakes.

Speaker 1

It's a good thing Charles can implant thoughts to people's minds because his actual arguments are not good.

Speaker 4

They're not good man, He's struggling. Steph.

Speaker 3

Before we get into the season finale and recap it and get into all the good topics, what was your X Men origin story? So?

Speaker 6

My x Men origin story was at the laundry meat Uh. So there was a laundrymat that we would sometimes go to and there was a I think it's Marble versus Capcom or Marble Marble versus Street Fighter, one of the two. And I just remember always picking Storm and like Typhoon, Typhoon all day long. And I, yes, I know, he couldn't stand whenever I would come in there, because it was either that or turtles and time and turtles and time.

Speaker 2

No. So that was kind of the.

Speaker 6

Thing that made me say, oh, this game that I enjoy playing when I have to go to the laundry mat. There's a show on TV that comes on Fox and sometimes episodes come on after school. So I started watching the actual show and it was just love ever since. And then very early on I said, Man, this man in this really ugly green suit and tie.

Speaker 2

I do not like him.

Speaker 4

You were you were like this, it's board headed by Nest. Something wrong with him.

Speaker 6

Yes, I remember the episode where he told with Verreen, like, hey, you can't handle your business with saber Tooth. But then by the end of it was like wanted them to go fight Magneto, and it's just like, sir, what when the Joel olste.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Speaker 3

I mean you've written extensively at you about how bad Charles is and his history, so as we get into the finale discussion, you must be feeling quite vindicated because he does come through at the end, but he also makes some some killer classic Charles's mistakes, classic classic Charles mistakes.

Speaker 2

I celebrated.

Speaker 6

I did, like I always joke about him going on that that Tom Joiner morning Cruise out of Space to be like with Llandra, and he just left his kids. He said good luck to y'all. Yes, I'm out here. You know, I want to be nasty with birds.

Speaker 3

So, like you said, I'd been making love and drinking wine, and you know, she's just getting.

Speaker 4

Destroyed, like and he just even admits it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we talked about it in our Tuesday episode. I think that episode of X Men ninety seven really crystallized the problem with Charles. You know, Magneto and Charles's kids, Charles's family are fighting off active extinction at the hands of Bastian. The world's governments are like, I don't know, we could do something, but we won't, just like we didn't do anything about Genosha. We've got the Avengers, but should we really have them do something about this? No,

let's just sit back and watch it happen. Magneto decided to do something, turned off all the electricity in the word because it was an emergency, had to make a wartime decision. And then Charles shows up. He's been on vacation in space with his girl ruling an empire. Comes back, has no idea the context, what's been going on. It's just like, hey, turn the power back on.

Speaker 3

Wait what as we see in this episode? Terrible idea, like that was your plan.

Speaker 1

Charles, Well, Steph, we're delighted to have you here as we recap this episode, So let's get into it. X Men ninety seven Survival is Extinction, Part three, the season one X Men ninety seven finale. We open an asteroid m where Charles has burrowed deep into Magneto Psyche as he loves to do, in an attempt to get Magnus to heal Earth's magnetic field and turn the power back on, which I just want to say, I would love to

see the power back on. I just don't think you do it unilaterally without getting anything back to the Yeah, something, hey promise to rein in the Sentinels and we'll turn the power back you just you anyway.

Speaker 3

Maybe go around and you know, collect up the prime sentinels.

Speaker 4

So they don't just come back on.

Speaker 3

Like maybe get a little bit of like a promutant legislation written into law, just something.

Speaker 4

But Charles is like, now, just turn it on.

Speaker 1

How about give us Trask and all the team behind the Sentinels and let us bring them to justice. Anyway, Charles in the end takes control of Magneto's powers and he just does it himself. Power is turned on across the globe. The Bashian bots reactivate, and Bashian is as powerful as ever. He's triumphant. He holds gold Team prisoner. He is this guy loves no one, but it's really bashing and Charles. Those two love to make a speech, don't they.

Speaker 2

I said, what is this like? Is this the talk hour?

Speaker 6

Re?

Speaker 5

You're a way to work.

Speaker 6

You're on your way to work, all of a sudden you can't go because the power's all out. So you're you're waiting at this and he's like, well, I guess I'm going back home, but you're not because Charles has turned the power back on. And now somewhere off you got this guy.

Speaker 2

Who is just waxing poetically about all the things. It's just like, I shut up and do the thing.

Speaker 1

Just kill us, Yeah, just kill talking.

Speaker 4

I don't want to know about it.

Speaker 5

So a Bastian is.

Speaker 1

Telling us all about his philosophy, which is essentially tolerance, his extension. He wants to he understanding that mutants evolved from humankind, why not go straight to the root and kill everybody?

Speaker 5

That's his plan? Uh much too Sinister's disappointment.

Speaker 1

Bastian is about to start with Nathan, who he has once upon a time promised to give to mister Sinister. But then Jean, with the very convenient power of the phoenix awakened inside of her, emerges and she just cleans house.

Speaker 4

I just have to.

Speaker 3

Say, Bastian really manifested this when he said, Jean Madeline never the phoenix just dead. I was like, bro, as soon as you say that the phoenix has comment, you changed yourself.

Speaker 6

The phoenix was in the middle of a delicious meal of some galaxy somewhere and like heard that and said I'll be back.

Speaker 2

Minutes.

Speaker 1

Phoenix reassembles the technopathy inhibiting collar that Hank and Forge designed and puts it on Bashian's head. She then deliciously pulls all of mister Sinister's ac crude mutant DNA that he has used to keep himself looking like he gets twice a year laser and botox and everything. All his beautiful skitty shrivels up into an old husk. He asks, Wharf, what do I look like?

Speaker 2

Now?

Speaker 5

Show me.

Speaker 1

Wharf shows up and Sinister flees it far it. What a what a beautiful denu.

Speaker 5

Of it for mister.

Speaker 3

I also love this idea that you can use wolf as a mirror, like Sinister just shook show me what I look like, and mof just doesn't. And I'm okay, I love that for you. I'm most like looks the same to me and said, this is like crying with his big bold head walking off it fantastic.

Speaker 1

It's so top tier that mister Sinister's entire mission in life, the mutant Massacre, everything he's done is just to keep himself looking cute, just looking by fat.

Speaker 2

I want that.

Speaker 6

I want that remake. I want this remake Sinister. He has a plan or whatever, or maybe it's someone else and it's it's death becomes him and it's Sinister and someone else.

Speaker 4

Stephan, that's your next backup story, no question.

Speaker 2

That makes him come on for Black History too. I'm sure.

Speaker 1

So Bashian can't interface with other machines and other people anymore, but he is still powerful. He tears off Cable's arm, feeds him with to builds himself a set of armor and wings, and he flies off to Asteroid X. Yes, he beats him so terribly, really really awfully, like he owed him.

Speaker 2

Twenty dollars, You owe me twenty dollars.

Speaker 5

Meet down well, he was annoyed.

Speaker 1

He was annoyed that Nathan keeps trying to go back in time and kill him, and we learned that he's Nathan's tried this two hundred times, it's yet to succeed, and clearly that got on Bashian sturves.

Speaker 4

Bastan's sick of him.

Speaker 1

So Bashan flies off to Asteroid X and his plan is to crash it into Earth and kill everybody on the asteroid. Charles is continuing his mission inside Magnus's mind now after hijacking his powers, Magnus's psyche is fragmented and he's trying to heal it and rebuild it all at the same time.

Speaker 5

If he fails, but.

Speaker 7

That was his own problem. I just need to say that this is the problem with Charles. Everything in this episode is his own doing. If he didn't mind wipe his boyfriend who By the way, I know that Bodomeo and the team.

Speaker 3

Were having a lot of fun in this episode because there's so many moments when they almost kiss, like they're like right up against each other, and he's like, remember me, Magnus, remember me. Remember you wouldn't need to remember if you did a mind I won't.

Speaker 5

I won't leave you.

Speaker 1

I won't leave you to the cold waters alone, Magnus. I will remain here exactly embracing you to the end.

Speaker 4

And it sweeps me underneath with you. I'm like, we get it.

Speaker 2

You're in love.

Speaker 7

Guys like, but stop mind wiping each other as creepy.

Speaker 5

You're exactly right, Rosie.

Speaker 1

This is Charles's m O, which is hey, uh, by the way, I don't mess with people's minds unless I absolutely have to asterisk, Yes, I do, and then later on people find out about it and it causes all problems. Anyway, Jeane mind links with Scott to warn him that Bashian is coming. Blue Team defends the asteroid against Fashion, and it was just wonderful to watch Rogue get some wix in.

Speaker 6

Whenever she puts on that green suit, look out, it's time to get trying.

Speaker 1

To get real busy, and she was working some things out against Fashion.

Speaker 3

Yeah, flying him all the way through space, flies into the moon. I did expect city and humans. I'm not gonna lie. When they landed on the moon, I thought black Boat was gonna come out and be giving him like a stinki.

Speaker 2

Moon, like in the middle of a washing.

Speaker 4

She was like, yeah, like, look at her cap at the moon, just like, nah, I'm good. You guys know what.

Speaker 2

The time keeps going off.

Speaker 1

Hey, someone's outside. It looks like the X Men again and somebody else.

Speaker 5

I'll just leave it.

Speaker 1

Meanwhile, you know, Lockjaw barking like crazy at the door, and then I much.

Speaker 6

Crystals somewhere cheating on the other side of the castle, her new flavor at the.

Speaker 1

Mom Meanwhile, President Kelly is in the Situation Room and over the incredibly limp protests of Captain America, the dog on a leash, who will once again not do the right thing because he's been ordered not to do, and to Chilah, who, to be fair, actually talks some ship to President Kelly, the Magneto protocols are enacted and missiles are launched at Asteroid M. Un Missiles Gold Team arrives on Asteroid M in a sentinel just in time to

stop Bashian. Scott then tries, inspired by the hope and the dream of Charles Xavier, tries to turn bash In towards the X Men's side to make him realize once and for all, Hey, you're like us, You're a mutant, like us, just a different kind of mutant. Why don't you stop this crazy thing that you're trying to do. That it wasn't gonna work, Okay, of course.

Speaker 4

Not if it was that.

Speaker 2

I'm like, Sorr, are you serious right now? His arm is missing peace right?

Speaker 1

Uh, of course it would not have worked. But we'll never find out because just then the un missile slam into Asteroid M, proving.

Speaker 5

Bastion right, honestly, like.

Speaker 1

Bastian is sucked into the now destroyed gravity core of Asteroid M, he disappears, and Magneto's base hurdles towards Earth. Hank comes up with a way that they can maybe save Earth if they all kind of use their powers to slow the asteroid from slamming into Earth. But of course this probably means they're all going to die. Geene and Scott mind link with Nathan to say goodbye, and it's actually it's a really touching moment.

Speaker 4

Actually, yeah, Charles, because is a deadbeat dad.

Speaker 5

I mean just like his dad, you know the apple.

Speaker 4

Yeah, the.

Speaker 1

Right falls on the other side of the galaxy, but but spiritually not that far, okay. Charles finally manages to reach Magnus by showing him the people that he cares about that could.

Speaker 5

Bring him back to Earth.

Speaker 1

And so Magnus sees on a boat rogue his hot young girlfriend, and then also on the boat, but in shadow all his children, Scarletwitch, Silver, lorda Dade, his flesh and blood kids who do not have even a fraction of the power to be guile his mind and bring him back to himself. Then then rogue because I guess that that Cajun stuff be yanked, because.

Speaker 8

That's the secondaryation, because what she said, your children like, yeah, forget to forget your kid.

Speaker 6

He can't.

Speaker 2

With the white streaks in her hair.

Speaker 5

He's like, rogue, that's right, that's right. I am Magnus, and I pulled that.

Speaker 4

I pulled that.

Speaker 5

That's my girlfriend at your child's Xavier. I must come back to myself.

Speaker 1

And so Magneto awakens, He lives, He's gotta get back to that. He powers up, stops Asteroid and which suddenly disappears sucked into I guess the vortex caused by the gravity core. The X Men disappear with it and they are presumed dead. And in this moment, I'm thinking, are we going to Australia?

Speaker 5

Are we gonna be in Australia.

Speaker 4

Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 3

It's like, no, yeah, we Godfather, We're going way for somewhere else.

Speaker 1

The X Men have been thrown across time. Rogue, Hank, Charles Magneto, and Nightcrawler find themselves in ancient Egypt, where, of course, they encounter the mutant who will soon be known as Apocalypse. And then in the far future, of course, Scott and Jean meet future versions of their family members, namely Mother Askani, leader of Klan Askani, who is a alternate version of Rachel Summers, their daughter, and a young Nathan Summers. And we go to season two, which we await with Beta Breath.

Speaker 4

Nathan Day as Kani. Oh, don't even get me started about.

Speaker 6

This real quick, because you know, I'm looking, I'm doing my account. I'm like, okay, where is she?

Speaker 5

What happened?

Speaker 3

I'm interested in that too, because we get to see just before the episode ends Forges looking for mutants, but really he's just looking for Storm as well.

Speaker 4

He's like, where that's making sense?

Speaker 3

And then obviously Lucas Bishops turns up love him and he's like, we gotta save the X Men, which is kind of a nice nod to like giant size where they kind of have to get a new team together.

Speaker 4

But where is Storm? My gut, there's two options here.

Speaker 3

One, she's off and they're gonna reveal that it's this big important plot point. Two they just forgot about her, because I have to say, my one issue with this show is they didn't necessarily hit all the storm beats they could have hit, Like, we didn't get her taken the leadership from Scott, we didn't get some of those bigger moments. So they either forgot or she's somewhere else. But I'll be interested to see where. I have to say, I don't believe Storm would get pulled into the Mother

Ask Karnie nonsense. And I also believe she would have seen through apocalypse early on, so maybe that's why.

Speaker 4

Maybe they didn't want to, maybe they knew that she would be better off.

Speaker 3

But where she is is I think the biggest question going into season two because where in the timestream would you put her?

Speaker 4

Steph, what do you think?

Speaker 5

Yeah, that's a good one.

Speaker 6

I actually wouldn't have minded putting her back so way back we're like Rogan them pop up because like her ancestor, yeah, and her ancestors and that whole magical thing. So I personally would have put her there because when they like pan to like the the Pyramids or wherever, like the the Royal Royal Palace, I was like.

Speaker 2

Oh, maybe Storms there, Maybe she's been there for a little bit, and now they're like, oh and some type of point. I don't Maybe.

Speaker 4

Storm wouldn't put up with Apocalypse.

Speaker 3

He's obviously not in power yet he's like fighting for his life. So maybe Storm's out there trying to stop him and she sent those guards to catch him.

Speaker 5

That would be cool.

Speaker 2

I would take that.

Speaker 1

Let's talk about some of your Charles Xavier hate. Did this season inform any of it? Did it build your case? Did it did it diminish your case at all? And how do you feel about it now? I personally, I think that this episode, this one episode was like the best moment that Charles has had in the series and a little bit of a enhancement of his philosophy. Though obviously it's extremely flawed, but to your Rosie's point, solving

problems of his own making. But how do you feel about Charles now after the season.

Speaker 2

I feel vindicated.

Speaker 6

Yeah, I feel like, you know, the writings have been on the wall since forever ago. You've been way back when he was creeping on Gene will Well before.

Speaker 8

Right.

Speaker 2

But it's just funny.

Speaker 6

Because in the ninety two he was terrible then and he's definitely still terrible now. Because when they cut to him in space and I saw him in that suit, I said, wow, oh, so this is where you've been. You couldn't even put in PTO. You just fake your death and the kids are down there fighting for their

entire life vindication. But you know, sometimes being a visionary as lonely, all of us who have been a part of the Charles hate camp had to wait til twenty twenty four to get our full circle vindication.

Speaker 3

Truly, the only and this is like controversial to even bring up this movie, but the only movie that even touched on how bad Charles was really is Dark Phoenix.

Speaker 5

Yes, I knew you're gonna say Dark Phoenix. Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 3

He goes to like a fancy dinner award show to get like a so important award and the kids are just left to.

Speaker 4

Be attacked while they have like a dazzler rave.

Speaker 3

So I remember being like, oh, well that I love that they're I'm like I'm like, they're digging into it. I'm like, they're digging into it, They're digging into dark Charles James McAvoy's he's acting up and everyone's like, I've never even seen the movie while you're talking about and also, that's a bad movie, so how can we take that?

But because X Men ninety seven is so beloved and it's dealt with the duality of Charles, I think people are for the first time given us our due and also coming around, Steph, what do you think it is about X Men ninety seven that has made it like so successful because this is kind of popped off in a way a lot of the Disney Plus stuff hasn't, and it really does seem to have hit a lot of the X Men notes and beats that people were looking for.

Speaker 6

Because I feel like it does a great job of not just it not rehashing ninety two or really any of the comics in a way that we've been here, done that we've seen this before. It feels fresh. I started watching it with my eight year old, which I enjoyed because I was really curious is what his reception would be of it, because ninety two he's watched a little bit of but for ninety seven, when we got to the end of episode two and like the two Genes showed up and he looked at me and he

was like, what's going on? So later he's like, so, Gina, what's going on with Gina? I'm like, who is Gina?

Speaker 2

He met?

Speaker 6

I was like, who is Gena? He's like Scott's wife. I was like, Oh, you mean Gene Gray. I've been calling her Gina Gray since then. But I think of him being that temperature check. I think that it's just a really great job of making something accessible to those who have appreciated the previous X Men animated series in the comics, and also doing a good job of bringing in new fans because he I mean, he's gonna be mad at me today because I watched the finale before.

I got to pretend like I didn't see it, but like, it's something that we've been able to actively Yes, we've been able to actively watch together Millennial and also Jen Alpha.

Speaker 2

Who knew it could bring those two together?

Speaker 4

I love that.

Speaker 1

Speaking of that, do we have any theories about when Sinister switched Gina and when when did the switch occur?

Speaker 4

I think the implication here is like pre Phoenix.

Speaker 3

Yeah, they they really make it seem like it's it's unclear who is who and whether Maddie was Phoenix or Gene was Phoenix. And maybe from what they were saying to Nate also potentially like in different universes it was at different times, because the implication is like maybe Maddie was Phoenix one time, Jane was Phoenix. So it's I think they leave it really open here, especially Becausejeane's always like, I don't know which.

Speaker 2

Memories are mine.

Speaker 4

I don't know which memories are mine, I don't know.

Speaker 3

Which hers, and then she's remembering stuff from like twenty years ago, and you're like, Babe, like this this is really fucked up, but I really love that by the end of this, she's just like, I'm embracing it.

Speaker 4

This is my son.

Speaker 3

I am Maddie, she is me. Maddie's dead now, so I don't need to worry about her. It's just me here and this is my child. So, continuing the comic book legacy where they just steal Nathan from Maddie.

Speaker 2

She's the mother who stepped up.

Speaker 7

She's not a stepmother, She's the mother who stepped up, came out of the Phoenix Force and saved her son when he was getting whipped with his own hand.

Speaker 1

Of course, we're all waiting for the X Men to appear in the MC. You what, if anything, does the success of X Men ninety seven tell us about the shape that a live action X Men could take, Because personally, I think this series shows it just perfectly encapsulates the X Men feel, and the feel is like they're not heroes, really, they're outlaws, and I think that's gonna be a difficult thing maybe to capture. And you say soap opera, Yeah, it's a soap opera big time.

Speaker 6

I think it's it would have to work best if they do, and I think we all know they are. But a TV series it has to be that because a movie is just it's not enough too. It's just it's just not enough space. And I love that these episodes came out weekly because you had a chance to like sit with it and either if you're somebody who reads comments, you had a chance to you know, touch on some things and refresh or find out things that you didn't before. But I think, if anything, it proves

that it can be done. But maybe TV is the best way to do it.

Speaker 4

We've talked about that before.

Speaker 3

How it if they did some kind of thing just called like exaviers and it just introduced.

Speaker 4

You to the the school and the soap opera, you know, cheers. Sometimes you want to go wear every mutant you know.

Speaker 3

But it makes sense like you could have essentially almost like it could work as an anthology series where you introduced different mutants. It could work as a slice of life drama way or at the school and you get to know everyone, and then once you bring out those big bombastic movies like a Storm movie, which is what they should do if they're not stupid, then you already know that interactions, you know the ways the character works.

I think the fact they use Bastion makes me feel like they were probably given editorial esque edbts about which villains to use and which not to use because of the movies.

Speaker 4

Because I just feel like it was such a weird choice.

Speaker 3

I feel like they killed it, and I loved the way Bastian was presented. He's so campy, but like, who thought the bad guy was going to be bad? I also feel like the fact that they basically kept Wolverine as a side character is probably because of how important he's going to be in Deadpool and Wolverine and them not necessarily wanting to mess with that. But I also think hopefully they've learned some lessons about how important the character relationships are and the messes, because I think that's

like the thing that people really want. They want morph turning into Gene and saying I love you, and everyone being.

Speaker 4

Like, ah, that's Wolf saying that's Wolverine, like what the fuck?

Speaker 3

And they want the Thrapple, they want the love Triangle. They want all that kind of messiness along with the powerful mute and stuff.

Speaker 4

Also less militarized.

Speaker 3

I think this show did that really well, like not the black leather suits, not working with the government, living that more anti heroic outlaw life which could pit them against, you know, the kind of milk toast Avengers that the MCU kind of established.

Speaker 1

That to me is the completion, because the more serious you get about Mutants and the X Men in the comics and wherever their stories can be found, the more you come to terms with the fact that the Avengers

and quote unquote human superheroes just don't do enough. They don't get involved in the affairs of the mutant community when it comes to saving them, They're certainly not going to take a stand against human governments or powerful actors within the US government who are dedicated to mutant extermination. They're always going to be a day late and a

dollar short. And it leads you to ask, like, well, what good are you if twenty million people can be wiped out on Genosha and the Avengers are just like on coffee break, then what are you guys doing?

Speaker 5

Like, what are you really doing?

Speaker 2

Real quick?

Speaker 6

As this asteroid is falling down and getting ready to hit the east? Cause like Peter Parker and Mary Jane are like standing outside of a radio. Just watch it on TV, Yes, watching it on TV, and I'm like, if you don't swing your web up there and get to doing something like where where is everyone?

Speaker 2

No one? No one was able to help. They're just like, well.

Speaker 5

Just doctor doctor, strangers doing surgery.

Speaker 2

It up a portal, like what you're doing?

Speaker 3

Seriously also as well, like couldn't you just yeah, open a pool and put them asteroid through it? Couldn't Spider Man make a giant web and it could just bounce off. We've seen him do that many times. I don't know it's almost like there's this weird kind of that's a mutant problem.

Speaker 2

Which is your problem.

Speaker 4

It's your problem, it's your problem.

Speaker 5

For sure. I think that is the stance.

Speaker 1

I think this Listen, Cap and the rest of the Avengers obviously.

Speaker 4

No better and our friendly you know, air.

Speaker 1

Quotes with mutants, know them well, understand that they're not what they're portrayed to be. But there's also a big incentive for Cap and the Avengers to be like, Okay, that's a mutant problem. They'll handle it, and they'll also be paying it as the bad guys when they handle it, and we'll just step aside and won't ever raise our voices about it, like that's fine, Like let's just let

that take place. And I think that is a really complicated and cool, evocative, emotionally powerful kind of vibe to try and capture in live action. And I think it's also I think it's vital to the experience of mutants within Marvel stories. And I think it's also really hard because it makes the Avengers look bad.

Speaker 4

Yeah, exactly will they will they commit?

Speaker 6

Okay, well, Alfree Winard already made them look bad when Alfrey.

Speaker 3

In just two minutes come on, I mean, Tony Stark is like a dunce. Let's be real, like he's in that meeting doing nothing looking like okay, speaking of that, before we let you go, who who's your favorite cameo? If we're gonna give like a six MALEI the Year Award aka favorite Cameo. We did get a lot of really good ones in this season, especially at the end

of this episode. We got some funny on the war cameos too, So was there one that really made you like most excited or like, why is that person there?

Speaker 2

I'm gonna have.

Speaker 6

To go with Cap and that is only because Rogue, like through his shield like a frissy, said.

Speaker 2

Super soldier, go get it. And I enjoyed that.

Speaker 5

Go get it.

Speaker 4

That was fantastic.

Speaker 3

I liked Alpha Flight with Silock. I was like, sure, that's great. Also, I'm a dust stand so it was nice to see her on the wall. Magic Exodus, I.

Speaker 4

Guess he's alive before he died in Ganosha Jason, what was the cameo that made you well?

Speaker 5

You mentioned a lot.

Speaker 1

I love that we saw Exodus one of the you know, an Omega level guy and one of the most powerful mutans we have and he was just dancing.

Speaker 5

I think Boom Boom.

Speaker 1

I loved seeing Boom Boom. I love Boom Boom's energy, one of my favorites.

Speaker 5

And strong guy.

Speaker 1

Strong guy I like because he's a fun he's a simple, simple kind of guy.

Speaker 5

He's just strong, simple.

Speaker 3

I was a big fan. As soon as I saw Davil, I was like, Oh, that's cool. And then I saw that he was like fucking clothes lining looters and I was like, ah, you fucking caught like this, motherfucker, just get I have the asteroid.

Speaker 5

Well he's top of you. Yeah, but you didn't see that.

Speaker 1

Right after that, he handed them a card for for his law firm and said like, if you need something.

Speaker 4

Oh, this is.

Speaker 5

Hit up.

Speaker 2

Yeah, oh my god.

Speaker 5

Hit up Foggy and Murdoch and we could take care of you.

Speaker 3

We'll defend you once I shipped you off to the police and then we get the funds from from the city.

Speaker 1

Thanks well, Steph, thanks so much for joining us. Do you have anything to promote?

Speaker 4

Where can people find you?

Speaker 5

Plug?

Speaker 6

Plug plug so real quick, Moon Girl and Double Dinosaur record roll my first middle grade It's a fun time. You love the animated series, You'll love this.

Speaker 2

Because it's based on that.

Speaker 6

I've got Star Trek celebrations coming out at the end of May May twenty.

Speaker 4

Ninth, Yeah, five hundredth issue right, oh.

Speaker 6

Oh yes, and that was Monouns yesterday. So Star Trek five hundred September fourth, and then My Little Pony and My Little Pony series starts June twelfth, and man, those ponies they almost broke me. Superhero stuff ride it all day. Ponies brought me to my knees.

Speaker 4

So you beat go out and pre order that one. Please, I'm whare Can people find you online?

Speaker 2

I'm on Twitter now.

Speaker 6

No, I'm not on Twitter, but if you want to dig up old tweets, you can go to ed Stuff, Underscore I underscore will That is the same for Instagram TikTok and also that we're at known as threads.

Speaker 4

Hey, thanks, thank you, Thankstav.

Speaker 1

Welcome to another edition of the Omnibus, where Lord, analysis and understanding come together. Today Rosie is recommending us the best comics read if you loved X Men ninety seven, and she's also digging back into their relevance and the creators who made them.

Speaker 4

So if you've listened to Xtra Vision over the years.

Speaker 3

You'll know that we're huge X fans, no surprise is there, and that our formative years and comics fandom were shaped by these books.

Speaker 4

But we're also aware that it.

Speaker 3

Can be very overwhelming to take on sixty years of cannon. So now The X Men ninety seven has finished its first season and lots of folks are asking us what comics they should read, which you guys have been doing throughout the season. We are here to guide you through four of our must read picks oh five. One of them is a short one if you want to read something as the dust settles from season one.

Speaker 4

So we're beginning with.

Speaker 3

Giant sized X Men number one, Lemueen and Dave Cochran, which hits shelves in nineteen seventy five. It's one of the books that Jason and I first bonded over when I first did my audition for Vision and is arguably the single most important X Men book since the very first issue.

Speaker 4

So what makes it so important?

Speaker 3

Well, in nineteen seventy X Men sixty six became the last new issue of the failing book before it became a reprint title. It was five years later that Ween and Cockrum took on the iconic team, reimagining them as global heroes from around the world. Beginning with four new characters. There was Colossus from the Soviet Union, the Kenyan heroine Storm,

German teleporter, night Crawler, and the superhuman aparche Thunderbird. Fighting alongside them were Banshee and Sunfire, who had recently been introduced in other comics, and a little known Incredible Hult character called Wolverine.

Speaker 2

Have You had of him?

Speaker 4

Might Have had of Him?

Speaker 3

In the vital issue, the original X Men have been kidnapped and taken to the island known as Krakoa, and the new team I needed to help rescue them. Aside from being an important issue in X history, it's a great jumping on point and revitalized the franchise, and in regards to X Men ninety seven specifically, it basically introduced many of the core characters that you know in love.

Next up is X Men from the Ashes, which encompasses X Men one sixty eight to one seventy six, and the arc takes its name from the first trade paperback that collected it.

Speaker 4

It's also obviously.

Speaker 3

The inspiration for the New from the Ashes relaunch that we talked about in previously on. It tells a story of the X Men just as they returned from space and are dealing with the loss of Cyclops, who has gone back to his roots in Alaska. While there, he meets a beautiful young pilot named Madeline Pryor, who just so happens to look like his dearly departed wife, Jean

Gray shocking. Representing the Lion's share of Paul Smith's time on the X Men working with Chris Claremont, this is a key arc for many reasons, not least Madeline Pryor rogue joins the X Men team and the infamous words Professor Xavier is a jerk. All of those moments were deeply influential on X Men ninety seven, and this arc featured not only Paul Smith, but iconic artist Walt Simonson on Uncanny X Men one seventy one and the beginning of John Remiter. June is long run on the series

with issue Uncanny x Men one seventy six. It's also interesting to note that Smith's slick and clean style has clearly helped shape the visual landscape.

Speaker 4

Of the animated series.

Speaker 3

Plus we get to meet the Morlocks and Storm's iconic Punk Transformation, both things we got glimpses of in X Men ninety seven. Now our third pick is Inferno, which you've heard us talk about as we've covered the show, which stands as one of the earlier examples of a Superio crossover that cut into numerous ongoing series, meaning technically lots of issues count as being a part of it. However,

that means you have two options. You can pick up the trade collections if you want to read every single issue, or you can just read Uncanny X Men two thirty nine to two forty three for the core story. This is a culmination of Maddi Pryor's story arc, featuring her becoming the Goblin Queen, who we talked quite extensively about.

Cyclops left a while ago when Jean Gray returned and of course took Maddie's son Nathan with him, Boo his sister Tomorrow Tomorrow bad Dad behavior the X Men at Outlaws living in the Australian Outback, and in the time since Maddie's debut, mister Sinister has arrived in his campy cloak and has been made her primary antagonist. Episode three, Fire Made Flesh took heavily from this, giving us a mini Inferno. But in the comics, this was a sprawling

story arc that had been bubbling for a long time. Notably, the X Men issues in Inferno are drawn by Mark Silvestri, one of the most influential ex artists of his time. Interestingly, what you won't see reflected on the show is the line up here, as nearly every character on the X team at this time in the eighties is someone who hasn't received significant screen time in X Men ninety seven.

Speaker 4

Now, this is our mini entry. Fatal Attractions is here for two reasons.

Speaker 3

It's where Magneto rips the Adamantium off Wolverine skeleton in one of the most iconic moments in X history, and it features everyone's baddest dad, Charles mind wiping Magneto, which you may have seen in the finale of X Men ninety seven. And that leads to the eventual Onslaught story arc,

which we also talked about last week. Picking up on the rossover model pioneered by Inferno, this ran through multiple series, but only for one issue each, So the best way to read this is to get the collection from your favorite local comic shop, because otherwise it's pretty hard to follow.

Speaker 4

Our final choice.

Speaker 3

Is a comic that me and Jason loved dearly. E Is for Extinction, the first volume of Grant Morrison and Frank Quietly's New X Men series, which feels like a funny inclusion seeing, is actually debuted in two thousand and one, four years after X Men ninety seven is set. But remember the episode that broke the Internet?

Speaker 7

Yep.

Speaker 3

Episode five takes directly from this incredibly influential series that recast the X Men as rockstar celebrities living in a world that no longer hated and fears them. This ran through the renamed X Men series New x Men issues one fourteen to one sixteen, and for just three issues, it played a large role in shaping X Men ninety seven. Maddie and Scott's psychic Affair was adapted from these pages,

though there he was cheating with Ma Frost. The three part season ender takes half its title from its pages, and the sentinel evolution and self repairing sentinels and sentience sentinels all come from this someone who isn't featured in X Men ninety seven, but who was recently confirmed as the main antagonist in the upcoming Deadpool movie is Charles's evil twin sister, Cassandra Nova, who made her debut in the fan favorite new X Men series.

Speaker 4

So there they are.

Speaker 3

Those are the comics you should read if you loved X Men ninety seven.

Speaker 1

We love to end our show with a series of fast moving segments. Today it's Who's Who, in which we will be naming our favorite X Men antagonists. Rosie, you got wool Baby.

Speaker 3

Okay, I'm gonna go for like least favorite and more like weird. So I'm gonna go for Ice Scream, who was created by Alan Kopperberg in nineteen eighty three and only made one appearance in Obnoxio the Clown Number One, but did fight against the X Men, and he could turn himself into any flavor of ice cream. I still think of you often, ice Cream. I believe that you can be redeemed and come back and fight the X Man.

Speaker 4

Who's yours.

Speaker 1

I'm gonna select Robert Edward Kelly, former senator now President of the United States make America human again. He ran for office on a variety of anti mutant platforms.

Speaker 4

Surely has comeback.

Speaker 1

He's also got pretty strong ties to the hell Fire Club. Wait, till he finds out who runs the hell Fire Club, and now he's President the United States, he gets to tell Captain America when he can go take a piss, Robert Edward Kelly, You're President. Next week we'll be diving into the post apocalyptic nuclear waste with episodes about Fallout

and Godzilla and don't forget. Tomorrow we'll have a very special bonus episode on the Fantastic The Funny not meaning to be funny, but really entertaining in its own way, Madam.

Speaker 4

Webb los Loss.

Speaker 5

That's it for our episode. Thanks is bing bye.

Speaker 1

X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Concepcion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman.

Speaker 5

Our supervising producer is a Boo Zafar.

Speaker 1

Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

Speaker 3

Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi A disco moderata

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