Look Out for Yourself.
Warning. Today's episode contained spoilers for the series for now, the final three episodes, the last chapter.
The last time you will ever listen to Enemy by Imagine Dragons, it's gonna happen. Hold on this time. Maybe that's it for Arcane.
So if you haven't watched that, then really listen to Dan Reynolds to Imagine Dragons look Out for Yourself, Go back watch.
Those and come back here. Hello. My name is Jason Concepcion.
And I'm Rosy Night, and welcome back to Revision of the podcast, where.
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Whoa And In today's episode, we are looking at the Arcane season two finale, episode seven A and nine at three, But really we'll be talking about feelings of full seasons and of course we'll be tapping in the producer panel coming straight from Kilt Over or Zo one, depending on how they're feeling. Well, are you lighting now now United? Now spoilers, but yeah, first we're gonna do some speed recaps and then we're gonna be talking about our feelings about this absolutely wild show and.
What we feel now.
It's it's come to an end for now.
Next up the recap Okay Arcane Season two, the final chapter, the last three episodes. Episode seven, Pretend like It's the first time. Episode eight, Killing is a cycle an Episode nine The Dirt under Your Nail.
Starting with episode seven, Echo awakens in an alternate timeline where being the Gang's heights from episode one was successful and the Hex tech was never invented. But get ready to be sad, guys, Violet died on the job. Himerdinger has already been there for like a thousand plus days.
So he's doing.
He's like, He's like, don't worry, Echo, You'll love it here. And why will he love it here? Well, this is essentially a world where both Zorn and Powder are in a very good place. Band is still alive. There's all kinds of people here that Echo hasn't seen for a long time, and Echo and Powder share a connection here that we didn't necessarily get to see, which I was
definitely discussing. But basically, Echo finds shards of hex crystals and gets Powder to help him and Heimdinger create a machine that allows him to go back in time four seconds, which is Echo's game power. So that was a big deal to have a z drive.
I want to shed out a very funny moment in which Echo realizes the four seconds is the limit because Heimerdinger gets blown up every time they go past four seconds. And heimer Dinger and he's like, okay, so that's the limit.
Ye Like, how did you know?
And he's like, ah, and you We've just seen his face be like melted off in the most So Powder and Echo share a romantic night and they kiss, which in this world they are clearly already romantically entangled. But as the title of the episode is, Echo says to Powder, pretend it's the first time they go and have a party, which is kind of like a it's to celebrate innovators
within Zorn. And while they do that, Himerdinger is on his usual wild shit like just upgrading the machine on his own, ends up sacrificing himself, not in the most terrific way possible. So this is the first of many people in this three recaps that I will ask are they dead or are they in the multiverse. I'm saying it may be multiverse because I love this little guy.
He disappears. I think he's in the moment.
He disappears, and he sends echo back to the right timeline after the Arcane anomaly. We then see that Jace has been in a different timeline where Hextech has destroyed all of Piltover and a hooded Mage leads him through this kind of crumbling as Aaron put in this little cheeky eldermring joke here Fara Mizzoula to a corpse and Jason's own warped tammer. So he is like, what is going on? And this is bad? And then he knows like I've got to stop my bff slash maybe boyfriend
Victor at any cost. And we're on to episode eight. We see mel awakening. She's glowing gold. She's got this really cool kind of markings all over her. She meets the Sorcerer from the Black Rose, who says, well, guess what you are? Actually a mage? Very rare, we love, it's very rare. You're in the gym half made. You can basically reflect other people, you can see what they're thinking, you can use their powers. And your mom sucks in
case you didn't realize your mum. And Bessa has actually been hiding and protecting you because she sees you as like the ultimate weapon, and she's like the arcane is waking up, people are messing with it, and you gotta go back and help save your city. Am Bessa and
Victor joined forces because now uh hex Tech. Victor wants to get to the hextgates, get to the anomalies and for some mysterious reason, and am Bessa wants an army, and thankfully, Victor's actually turned his followers into like an I robot army.
He's like Ultron exactly.
He's using a hive mind to turn his followers into sexy like slick white and gold Hextech robots. Victor attacks Jason Mell in the chamber with one of his eye robots and like they can even though Jas is now sexy bearded, Jace with a big hammer and he's got a cool leg after he fought through his alternate timeline, which I have to say, going just skipping back quickly to episode one, Jace is in his own timeline and
he is like being tormented in that time. I saw I saw this in a room with like two thousand people at least like probably sixty percent were women, and believe that every single one of them was like cheering on as this man got tort Absolutely, he was just absolutely struggling.
You know, in the scene where he makes his pitch to the leaders have piltover and so on, there's a gasp. And the gasp I think is not because he's unveiled, you know, Victor's one of Victor's army soldiers, and what it looks like. I think it's because they're like, damn, he's looking good. He's looking hot.
Landry, my friend who is the number one Jace hater, when he came out with that long hair and the beard, she was like, uh oh, he's kind of eating and I was like, no, I know it's true.
He sucks.
How can he do this to us? But Melon, Victor, I mean, Jason Mel they can barely combine, like their powers are not anything against I robot. So we're gonna see what happens next. Jinks turns out she's alive, Buye's very happy, goes to see Caitlyn. Why the fuck is Junior Officer Maddy Nolan? Then Or wants to see her. Turns out more on her later. Jinks gave herself up
to be arrested and is in a prison cell. And I have to say I did not appreciate how many weird shots they were of Jinkx's gross feet in this section, Like I will rewatched this so many times, and for some reason there's so many shots of her dirty feet. Ve goes to free Jinks and is like, Caitlyn, go away, I'm sick of you. Obviously, Jinks gets one up on her sister, beats her up leaves and she's like, I'm done.
I'm walking out. I've been speaking to my dead silkoa dad in my head, and he basically said, sometimes you've got to walk away and stop fighting. Kate comes in and she's like, hey, I knew your sister was going to lock you in this prison, and you know what, I gotta tell you something. I've been kind of like sleeping and buyers like I don't fucking care, come over here and my muscly arms covered in tattoos, and then we get and quite extended and unexpected. We were wondering
are they gonna kiss? Well? Guess what. More than that, it was great, and I would I was sweat I know, it's like they go for it. And I will tell you something, I've maybe never felt more powerful than being in that room that my friend correctly called the lesbian Convention. When they played this scene on the big screen, the screams were so powerful that I felt like I could have powered myself up for like twenty years.
It was it was It was steamy, it was crazy.
It was steamy, And I think they did a nice job of being steamy without being like explicit, because they still understand who the audience is for this show.
Jase.
Then we get him making his plea to the leaders have piled over and so on, and he's like, you gotta fight the fighters coming here, and we can't keep fighting each other. Even though I did think that was the point of the show. Just side note there. We'll talk about that more.
Late to the point of the game game as well.
No, now we gotta come together to fight cool Victor and his sw is like evil robots. Some people leave, some people don't. We then start the final episode with Jinx and she has got one of her iconic little grenades and she just keeps trying to blow herself up in the last drop, but echoes turns up and he's like, bro, don't do this, and we see him like rewind time a few times and he eventually is like.
Let's talk.
We then just go straight into the battle. They are like, we need some war we need some enemies, and it's happening. Caitlyn and her team attempt to ambush am Bessa and her kind of Noxy and warriors. They're captured because guess why. Turns out Junior Officer Maddy Nolan, who's been keeping Caitlin warm at night, has been working for AMBSSA all alone.
Oh baby, Mel arrives, saves Caitlyn and in doing so kill like Maddy Nolan is gonna shoot Caitlyn in the head after saying I appreciated your and Mel puts up a shield and it ricochets and shoots Junior Officer Maddie Nolan in the head. And wow, the way people were cheering when this young woman died. You couldn't believe it. Ah. Caitlin and Mel have this great battle where they battle
and Bessa. I love that Mel overcomes am Bessa and Bessa gets sent to the Black Rose dimension, where we're kind of seeing her chained up very hell raiser, very center bite style, but Mel actually manages to save her mother from that dimension she passes away, but finally she says to her, you are the wolf, like you are the next Noxie and leader. Then, just when things are looking really bad, we've already lost bearded best friend of VI, who we learned his name was Louris rip Lorris. We
barely knew yee, we barely knew ye. We're seeing lots of deaths from Piltover, the brave people who came up from Zorn to fight alongside the people who've been oppressing them. They're dying. But guess what. Then we get huge moment where Jink shows up in her little air machine with echo in the firelights and they telling the tide of the battle. We at a lot of great echo moments.
We get sadly, then we find Warwick, who has been victified and is like a giant hex tech werewolf now battles Jinks, and by then Victor arrives with his new redesign. It's really sick. It's reminiscent of the game, but in my opinion, I really love the choices they made with it. He's left his little galaxy space where he's been hanging out with Sky and talking about, you know, making everything perfect. Confronts Jason. He's like, bro, I gotta end all conflict
and suffering. And even though you might no longer be part of this home erotic friendship, I am very glad to see you. I love you. Echo uses a zero drive to outmaneuver Victor in his army. He's going back in time, he's pulling things. Jason, Victor commune with not Arcane in this kind of galactic universal space, which I love.
This is actually my favorite visuals of the season, or this part of the season, and it's revealed, of course, in case you didn't guess that the hooded Mage that saved Jase was actually an alternate timeline Victor and his pursuit of perfection just led to him being like endlessly lonely, and in all timelines, the only person he could trust to help convince him to stop was Jase because they're
in love obviously. And then together they basically take the piece of hex tech that Jase and that Victored once given to Jace. They hold it together and Victor says, you gotta leave, and Jay says, no, we finish this together, and then they disappear into what seems into the gem. So again, are they dead? Is it multiversal? I'm saying it's multiversal. Also, guys, in case you haven't seen the Christopher Nolan Tenant movie, this is basically the Tenant I
just want to say, it's just Tenant. Then Warick aka Vander aka Victified Vanda attacks me. They're in the kind of tunnel system of Piltover, and Jink saves her, but as Vi grabs her, Jinks takes the hex Tech out of her gauntlets, causing them to fall apart, and she falls down with Warwick into the kind of tunnels and says, you know, I will always be together in any world. Ye holds them and it doesn't It doesn't happen. And then this is the big question again, is Jink's really dead?
Many people stopping this seeing her, seeing these kind of purple shooting out into the tunnels. We end with essentially like a prologue that lets us know mel is taking her mother's place. We see singed daughters still alive. Savika joins the council, and now I have to say, you don't know how much the lesbians loves Sevika bro Every time she's on screen, she never had one word, and every single cosplay girl in there is screaming. It was fantastic.
Kaitlin and Bay are together. Caitlin is now got a cool eyepatch by is humming the song we first heard Powder singing in episode one, and it looks to me like Caitlyn is essentially looking at the plans of the Piltover tunnel system the Piltover.
And they're going to do some sort of reforms to the structure.
And I also wonder if she is looking for Jinks. Right, Jinks knows those tunnels as that was where Jinks fell, and maybe Kate is trying to find her. And then we get at the end, Kate asked Via, you're still in this battle. You're still in this fight, and then we see a kind of airship fly off, letting us know that there are like more tales to be told in this world. So they did not bury their gaze. Good for them, and we if you're worried about that, you know some of our discord word they did not.
You do get a gay happy ending here, and yeah, that is the end of our recaps, and I have to say, obviously I got to watch this in the cinema. It was a amazing I will say I do think Netflix should have done like a Disney style Star Wars cinematic release for these I think they would have made a lot of money. I think people would have really gotten to enjoy some of the more epic moments. But yeah,
it was great. And I guess we're going to toss to a message from our sponsors before we call in the newly united Piltover and so On producers Panel to talk about our feelings about the finale of.
Okay, Yeah, and we're back.
We're back, baby.
Please welcome to the chamber the producer panel, abou Jowel and Aaron to discuss the series finale question.
Mark of our finale, I believe of our but I think we know that there is going to be more stories in this kind of room, Terror, wild and clearly you know, a league of legends.
Once they figure out their line producer issues and how to budget the show responsibly, I think they will create more shows. It only makes sense that they will do. So let's talk about our favorite Let's talk about.
Like the what what worked?
I think the pacing obviously is going to be a big point of conversation, but I think.
For me it has been with the audience.
Has been with the audience. I think the a common thread in a lot of the comments about the end of season two the end of the series has been God, it felt really rush, and it did feel rushed. I will say that what worked for me, though, was that
they concentrated on emotional climaxes and emotional beats. It's very interesting to me that like the plot beats and the emotional beats kind of never intersect, but the fact that they gave the emotional stuff such a balanced airing in the finale made it feel ultimately satisfying and overcome the pacing issues. And I also think that thematically the show really hangs together around a common idea which seems to me to be not quite forgiveness, but like letting go.
You know, Yea, there's clearly a difference between forgiveness and letting go, but it's more about, Hey, bad stuff happened, we did bad stuff. I'm just gonna move past it now. There's certain things and maybe I can't forgive people before, yeah, but I'm but whatever that looks like to me, I'm
going to move past that and move on. So I think that was what really carried it for me, and I was ultimately quite satisfied, even though I mean it's I feel like, if you like the show, it's impossible to come out of episode nine and not be like, we need more.
Where's the rest of it?
But ultimately I'm quite satisfied. Your favorite elements for you, Rosie.
I would definitely say, just like, the emotional beats did really hit for me, and even some of the stuff that I know we will talk about, like that first episode. In this episode seven, I was definitely a little bit confused, and at first I thought it was a lack of understanding of the law, but actually I think everyone was a little bit confused with that kind of alternate universe episode.
But for me, I think that is the episode I will go back and revisit the most, and I think it hammered home some emotional beats that would then come to the four later on.
I inverted happy ending. They gave you the happy ending in the beginning.
Exactly, and I was happy where Kate and Bayer's story ended. As somebody who was not particularly invested in Jake, I actually found the Jake and Victor stuff to be pretty profound by the end, and also like I am a Tenant. I'm a Tenant apologist because that movie is gay as hell and there's about two men who love each other and go through time to just be together, and this is the same thing. So that was good for me. I love Echo. I thought that.
Yeah, criminally, criminally low amounts of eggs exactly. I needed so much more Echo in this series.
I do feel like by the end, I was like, I feel like if you're if, the show is a journey of them kind of learning what works and what doesn't work or what they want to see. I do think that by the end, having Echo getting to be that big hero that really worked for me. I love drinks, so I'm definitely of the mind of like there's fun to be had looking at whether or not she died while still getting that emotional beat. So for me, it
was the emotional beats. And I really want to ask a Boot because we didn't have you on the last part and you're desperately missed by our discord users, how do you feel about the final three episodes?
I loved it so so, so so much, like I'm working away with it, just still processing my feelings. Like I tweeted yesterday, I was like, I'm going to need a couple of weeks and a couple of rewatches to figure out how I actually feel about the show, because I'm left just astounded. I think the visual storytelling is top notch stuff, some of the best I've ever seen. I think the emotional gut punches rushed, sure, effective, very very I've walked away just feeling quite blown away, you know,
by the show. You know, the more I think about it, the more knits I can pick. But the feelings I walked away with after watching these last three episodes were unlike any other animated show I can think of in recent memory. So I don't know. I'm a total stand for this show despite its faults, and I loved nearly every aspect of at top to bottom.
I do have to say I did come at the end. I did like look at my friend and be like, Okay, I do think it's a really interesting situation because I do feel like by the end of the episode, I was like, you can go back to calling Arcane the show a masterpiece, just because of the they managed to get emotional beats to hit. But it's interesting because it
is also not a perfect show. So I think there's an interesting conversation to be had around it can both be a masterpiece that really works and just absolutely hits, but it can also be something where you're like, oh, what would it have been like to do this? But I think part of that is actually why this show is so unique because there's never been a show like this.
So there is gonna be those growing pains, and there's gonna be things that are like, the highs are so high and then you're like, wait a minute, but a normal show would do this. But you're like, but also if this show had been made normally, it would have never been the show that we got. So it's like this really complex space, Aaron, how about you?
So one of the reasons I think a Boo your your comments spot on with the emotional storytelling really hit even despite the pacing, is because this show did an incredible job of building character and focusing on characters and making you care about damaged, imperfect characters. Jinx someone who you know. Throughout the recaps of season one and the first two acts of season two, we talk about her committing mass murder and we still care about her as a person.
Yeah.
Really, and then you introduce you introduced Issha and some backstory and episode seven with with the alternate timeline is beautiful and we fall in love with her again. And they did such a good job I think of focusing on characters and that, like that storytelling really really worked for me throughout all two seasons despite the pacing.
Yeah, Joel, how about you? What wa wah whah.
Man the beautiful Okay, wait, we're focusing what we're costumes stunning lesbians? Yeah, I loved them. Characters really fun to follow.
I'm out, did anyone follow Did anything jump out to you in the finale three episodes Joe out that you were like surprised by as someone who comes into this with a little bit more critique, Was there anything where you were like, Okay, actually that was kind of a banger, or this is a character I wish I'd seen that.
I think the Ambssa and her daughter storyline was shockingly good, Like, I think that came together in such a fantastic way, especially because I found myself all episodes of I'm like, I need to know what happened to her? Is she Okay, she lost forever, like where did she go for her back? For her to come back in such a strong way, I think she probably has the strongest character arc of everybody, just from where she started to how she changed to
where she evolved to at the end. So yeah, I thought that was done really well, and it's sort of exciting, I think for video game players, knowing that that world's gonna be fleshed out later, to have a space where I jump off into.
Also, am Bessa is the one character from the show, so I was.
Going to say the game because everyone else is getting. My understanding is they've already started adding skins for everyone else, but am best is actually a fully blown.
Character introduced like last month or something.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was like, that's an interesting choice. I'm very intrigued. And then I saw Ambssa in the finale battle with those like crazy like cars on chains, and I was like, oh, okay, no, I get it, Like this is like who wouldn't want to play as that character? Okay, Jason and Joel, I know you two both have like heavy critiques on pacing, so let's talk about that, like you two go go deep into it.
Listen when the producers tell you, as they have in numerous interviews since the kind of bombshell Hollywood Reporter story came out, it was a variety, sorry forget, I.
Think it was. I think it was THHL. But anyway, that was a trade expose.
Yeah, correct saying that, No, it was always going to be two seasons. That's come on, there's no. I don't believe it. I don't believe that to be the case. I think they were clearly thinking there was going to be more, and I think it tells in the storytelling.
I think that they saved it with incredible emotional home runs, like it's interesting that to me, the stuff that was surprising was more the misses, like the diversions, the time jumps, yeah, the alternate universes, and the stuff that was not surprising was also kind of like the most for me, the most resonant and emotionally satisfying, because it just tells you they're like they recognized, Okay, we have to land the Ambassa plane. Okay, we have to land the Kate and
V plane. Okay, we have to land the JINX and V plane, and just understanding, like we have to give people resolutions to these stories. Victor and Jason and they did it, and to me, that was that managed to overcome any issues that they had with the pac which is really if you want to talk about like kind of a master it's like accomplishing time is accomplishing that because it really was, like you do, the more you think about it, you really do feel how rushed it was,
but it was. It's the hard stuff, it's the gut punch stuff. It's the emotional stuff that really carries. And I keep thinking about for me, the theme that forgiveness
were moving on. Theme I think is why it's so resonant to me is I've been watching a lot of couple's therapy on Showtime on the Bleared Showtime Network, and Orna the Therapist at one point there's she has a line that I can't stop thinking about in the in the current season where there's like a polyque triplet and they come in and uh and the main the anchor guy of that trio is like airing all these grievances.
You know, she did this to me first, and then I did this, and then of course Ben and she stops him and she's like, it doesn't matter who did what first, and he's like, but I think it does, and he's and she's like, no, it you know, in a court of law it matters, But in a relationship, trying to unwind who did what to who first is actually tremendously toxic, and you can't ever escape what's happening.
Because then you're basically always trying to get the uppa hand.
Yeah, and I think that message in this show to me just you know, in a show about two like warring societies who can't get it out of each other's way and can't stop thinking, well, they're doing this to us, so we have to do this and they and then the other society is like, well, they attacked us, so
clearly we must respond. And the only way out of that is to just go you know, I'm not I'm not saying what happened was okay, and I'm never going to get over it, but I'm also not going to be bound by the rules of like responding to that. And that worked on a societal level and the show and it worked on an interpersonal level. And I thought that was just a tremendously trenchant and resonant emotional beat that they just nailed and managed to overcome the piecing issues for me.
And I'm gonna set up I just want people to understand. You know Joel from the New Girl podcast, You know Joel from Fake Doctor's Real Friends, But do you know that Joel is also like a storied entertainment critic who has been watching TV for a very long time, who is on MPR talking about movies. So believe when she comes into this and tells you the show has pacing issues, She's got the chops, She's done the work, and she does have the juice. So Joel, tell us what did
it work? From a television critic level?
First Wow, introduction?
Thank you?
Okay.
So I will say I agree with everybody that it's sort of a miracle that what they pulled off managed to be as entertaining as it did. Right, Like, I'm giving you impossible too, Like I'd get back in the boat with these characters even though this was a train wreck.
I like that.
Absolutely the same. It's fun.
You're like, oh, these characters are so exciting.
Even if the film structurally doesn't quite work, I'm still invested in this world and in these characters, and that's great. I think if I take a step back as like a person who loves video games haven't played this video game, but I do love video game then for a long time, especially, I think mid As kids were like, Hey, wouldn't it be great if all these cut scenes were actually a movie. That would be really exciting cut scenes look so cool?
Star Wars the Old Republic Knights of the Eternal Throne did it and it was amazing. But they did it really well because you didn't get a lot of vocal acting. What it was was like, here are these really cool characters you like in a very dope setting, giving you emotional beat after emotional beat that you can understand that's really intrinsic to the lore of Star Wars, and it was fabulous.
I frequently rewatched this movie. It's so good.
I think our kne sort of struggled with bringing a story to the forefront. Like they have the dope scenery, they have amazing characters who you love, who are vibrant and fun, but then when you put them on a story, it's really difficult to you know, you gotta articulately, you gotta be saying one thing. It's it's a lot of effort and work, and I think they developed a really good job with a lot of this, but like, my god, you can't and I'm sorry, you can't put a music
video in every episode. It just completely derails the pacing time. If they had just removed those, I have four extra minutes in every single episode to tell story as opposed to a montage of images. It's such a freaking train wrecktor show. And the songs were not good enough to support stopping the show to be like, oh, sometimes I'm sorry.
There's like two or three good songs arose. Yeah, but.
Missus iffy for me, and I think my biggest takeaway if I were, you know, to come in and give critique before finalization, I would say, you don't need every sci fi trope in your final act.
We got robots, time travel, well.
Were some of the other Oh, we got multiverses, Like it was just so much to shoehorn in four episodes, and also you're introducing new characters across the final act of see this the second season of the show, it felt it was too much to juggle successfully. We could never throw all of those elements in and have a
storyline that makes sense. I mean, and because it's so close to everything we've already compared it to Marvel and Ultron, but you could also do a Spider Man, especially because Echo looks a lot like malth Rollison character designed like every time something new came up, I was like, Oh, it feels like you're just sort of tipping into this. It felt like you were feeling a Netflix algorithm, which I don't know if that's the case or not, but
that was really an issue for me. I'll say, like I, this level of lesbians is what I demand from all of my TV so Aces you really nailed it, but I do think it suffered for that. But surprisingly I could see myself rewatching this.
Oh yeah, I definitely think that. I also speaking for sure speaking of tropes, I want to bring in Arrow and Aaron give us your theory on how like how we have Star Wars being done in our arcane.
Season two is basically the original trilogy of Star Wars. Act one is episode four, Act two is episode five, Act three is episode six, and I think everyone almost entirely agrees that the strongest of the OG trilogy is Empire. I think Act two was all of our favorite. We had a lot of critiques at the end of Act one and then Act two came in and we were like, everything that we were worried about has been fixed. We loved it the end with Warwick and the family coming together.
And then I think Act three had a lot of resumes every empire. Yeah, and Act three had all this resolution that was very nice and maybe not necessary. Also we have like, you know, the bad guy saves like turns around and saves the good guys.
Very Darth Empire.
But like there was a lot that just felt like it resolved for the sake of resolving. And also Heimer Dinger gets fridged in the beginning of Act three al a Yoda, but you know, there's a lot there.
To die rather than just like can I just put himself in the fridge?
All men who are like, I'm done, It's fine.
Oh that is true.
I'm also what about the reveal that we're listening to a Heimer Dinger. Yeah, okay, wait a second, this is hydrogen.
The guitar that.
Is like, if you guys have not seen the James Wand classic Aquaman, there is a similar visual musical gag in that that literally just killed me and the and in the movie when it in the movie that when we realized that Heimerdinger was playing that guitar, I absolutely lost my ship, Like that is one of the best for me, okay a boo. I just want to know, like what you are the one who like understands this world the most, I think, and like, what are the
stories you want to see coming out of this? Now we're here, now we're at the end, and we know there's going to be more shows. What do you think are the most likely things we're going to see coming out of this and what do you personally want to see?
Well, I think Jason, you put it perfectly. As someone who loved both seasons of Arcane, I am still walking away from episode nine going ugh, I wanted more, Where's the rest of it? And I think that some of that is very intentional. Naxis, for example, is almost guaranteed going to be a part of this universe we're going to explore further. In fact, I think Mel's storyline was one that I was wanting left wanting with this that was kind of the point next season because it felt.
That feels like an obvious spill.
It feels like mostly storyline was put in here to introduce us the.
Next show, to set up Axis.
Naxis show the showrunner, who's also one of the co creators a Christian link from Riot Games. He did say that in upcoming shows it will be nooxus Ionia and Dematia are the places they want to explore. And I think obviously a mal show, Naxia show, a Naxist show that that seems like the obvious first stop for what they would do next.
I think so too. There's also a couple of other easter eggs that I was finding. Again I have to credit mostly Twitter and Reddit for this. I have not played League of Legends in like over a decade, so my knowledge is very out of date. But at the end we see like the three eyed Raven not brand that's actually hints towards another character, another hint toward a potential, huge popular League of Legends character that.
Might show up in the future.
So I think a lot of this season airing to your point, especially with mel was seating like a League of Legends cinematic universe, television universe of sorts.
Helped by the fact that they don't show Jinx's body, they don't show Jason Victor's body, Heimerdinger's body, like they're all out there, right, they can come back.
For and again once they figured out how to budget a show responsibly.
That was certainly I'm gonna look, I'm gonna say one thing. Yeah, then this is They've said this a lot. They said it at the premiere. I was actually very impressed by how they came on stage of the premier and they were like, yeah that article where they said we didn't know what we were doing, we didn't And I was like, wow,
I think I love you guys. And then today I was actually speaking to Christian Link for an IgM feature that I'm doing, and he was saying, you know, honestly, like the money all went to the animators, and they want to keep making shows where the money goes to the art. And I'm like, you know what, I want you to have a better budget, but I also want that mentality to be an animation and I want it. I want people to keep getting paid. So I'm like, can we do both?
Yeah, I listen. I love that sentiment. I also feel like in Hollywood and entertainment and tech whatever, or when people say, oh, the money's going to the workers, I want the receipts. So while I I tip my hat to that, the significance of that. I also want to know if that's true, because I kind of don't believe it one hundred percent. And this is also a world in which Blue Eye Samurai exists and is similarly as excellent visually and didn't cost a quarter of a fucking billion dollars.
Very true. I will also say I do wonder if part of the reason the money went to the animation team and the people who created the visual language. It's a French company, and I feel like the protections there, like for Fortish and for those French workers, is probably much higher, and as is probably the quality of life from what we've heard of some of the FOURTIESH team. But yeah, I mean I want them to learn how to budget because I want to see loads more shows
in this universe. I also want to see, like I always do, I want to know, like what does the show look like when it has a budget closer to Blue Eyed Samurai. What is it look like when you let somebody who loves two D animation take it over?
What does it look like?
This has been a space for experimental animation, and I would actually love to see each show have as much of a unique visual language as Archett.
That's something I really agree with Rosie, Like they proved so many times that they could do alternate animation styles throughout this season.
Yeah, take that and run with it.
Don't feel every single show you put in this universe has to have the exact same look as this, especially if it's gonna cost a billion dollars.
Imagine if him Dinger is in like a two D one of Us, because he looks like a two D Disney creature, Like, I want to see that. And also I would add, honestly, just take Ja like a maybe a movie or like a mini series with like a couple of episodes like in and intermedia episodes that we got a lot during COVID where it's kind of not a full season of just like Jason Victor in that kind of galactic arcade space. Okay. Also, big question I
had after coming out of this. Now, I've done my research and I understand more what arcane as like magic means in this world. But did you feel like you guys understood what the arcane was by the end.
Absolutely.
I think it's some sort of like a nexus or a portal thing, but I don't really know.
They believe in like an arcane magic in this world and arcane is about that kind of ancient magic with a with a less modern understanding. But I did think it was really funny. I was actually by the end, I was like, this is such a great like fuck you to everything you learn about storytelling in TV, because like, nobody knows what that means, even if you're the biggest deepest arcane kind of lover or League of Legends. Aboo, what do you think about the arcane? Like do you
feel like that's like a mystery to be solved? Do you feel like they want you to look into what that term means within the games? Like how do you feel about that part of it?
No, I don't think it's a mystery to be solved at all, And I think expecting at all to ever get answers about what the hurricane is is going to leave you disappointed.
I love that we need more mysteries like that in fiction and in life.
Yeah, I mean, I in fact, I don't I quite I don't mind it. You know, I don't want like a midi chlorine explanation of what the arcane is. I'm fine with it being this wild, unreliable, magical catch all that lets them do whatever the first.
They want they want, you know, it keeps you with the character.
I'm fine with the arcane being elusive.
They don't know what it is.
You don't know what it is, but it's impacting their world. Bam, great mcguffin set.
Let's go.
Yes, speaking of characters, Jason, I think you need to talk about Echo.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, let's let's talk about Echo. What do you feel like?
What?
Easily one of my favorite characters coming out of this final seasons, but I felt like I'd missed like three episodes or something like I didn't. I had to come into the group chat and be like, so am I like not up to there? Like one another.
Character who I think is getting his own show and is intentionally why he got hero moments and.
Absolutely should because it just felt like so rich and resonant when we when it really got moving in episode eight with Echo's plot, I will say, you know, I was like severely thrown when I put on episode seven and I was like, yes, did I miss an episode?
Like what the fuck is happening? And it's not just like the alternate universe stuff, It's that it seemed like Echo and Powder Slash Jinks had a relationship that seemed to me to like be based on stuff that I had not seen and that I felt like I had missed.
And I mean, this is one of the examples of the things that ultimately the show overcomes that, but that that was specifically a moment that left me feeling like and especially as Jinks as excuse me as echoes, you know, skills and actions become crucial to turning the tide of the conflict. It it it just felt like specifically that I wanted I wanted more of it, Like where was the rest of it? Where was that backstory? Like does that exist anywhere? I want to know the basis of
those feelings between uh Echo and Powder. It's like that is it? You know, there's certain like emotional motivational things that I don't like Jace. What does Jace care about? I don't actually know, and I don't give a shitt that's it he cares about to the extent that it's like, we need to stop Hexsteck, bro Hextech. The fucking barn doors are open and Hexteck is running across the fields, Like why are you still caring about stopping Hexteck?
Now you.
Fucking way past time that you stop caring about stopping hexs deck just over.
Feel accountable to yourself. You were the way you started this, bro.
But with you know, when episode seven got underway and then Echo and then it became clear what Echo's plan was, I was just like, man, where has Echo been this whole time? I feel like that's to me, the one character where I'm just like criminally criminally low levels.
I went back to season one because I was like, wait a minute, did I miss this being seeded? Then I will say I did ask about this. It's in the ign thing. But like that specific thing, that was something that Christian told me, and I think this is something that makes Arcane unusual for better for worse. Whatever he did tell me, he was like, that was just a storyline they wanted to see. So they just wanted to see what happened with these characters in that world.
And I think in a way that is what made the show so widely accessible because it does tap into this notion of like, well, what if we just did this, Like the show.
Doesn't, Here's here's what really works about. There's a lot of things that really work, But to me, character wise, what really works about this show is it's operatically a soap like. It's so high opera like and it totally commits to shit, like, hey, what if these two actually you're deeply in love in this like altered universe and we've we're just gonna throw that out there.
Yeah exactly, Like, well if you it's very soap opera because it does feel like one of those episodes of like Days of Our Lives where something completely crazy would happen and then at the end they'd be like it was all a dream and you're just like, well, I love getting this like fan pic episode where you kind of get to explore this nice version of this fucked up well.
And I love that about it.
Now.
It does leave me wanting a lot more, particularly from Echo, but there are little moments like that all throughout this, like when Kate is talking about Junior Officer Maddy Nolan and is like, yeah, that was fun dub like she was I was just you know, I was just with her and believing every fucking terrible fascistic thing that she that she was espousing, and honestly I was doing it for the sex, you know, Like yeah, I was like it's those kind of moments that are great, but yeah,
it's like Echo more and more, Echo, Please.
When we did the rewatch of season one on extras, A Boo and I and I think this was the episode you were on, Rosie, we talked about the bridge fight with Echo and Jinx and how it was this beautiful recreation of them having a fight, like playing as kids. But I was like, we didn't get that when they were actually kids. And I wonder now if we had replaced Milo and Clagger as much as I love them with Echo early on and we got all that time with Echo. I mean, Echo's the one who found the job.
We know that Echo could have gone on the job with them and we could have gotten all this time. I just wanted Echo and Powder like running around in the background building stuff together.
Give me something like that exactly.
I did go back and was like, this was not seated. I didn't miss it.
But I have to.
Say again, and I don't think I'm alone. I think we're talking about this before we started recording. Episode seven is probably gonna be the episode I rewatched the most because it's just so beautiful to be in that Zorn space and in this different vision of it and to get to see Powder and to kind of get to
see what that world might have looked like. And I think a lot of fans felt that way, So that in itself, I guess, is a hint of like maybe there is a world where we could have had a whole season of that if this show had had five seasons. You know, a boo, what do you think?
I also wanted to shout out the visual storytelling in episode seven in particular, because I think there's a lot of perhaps I texted to you this to you guys earlier, perhaps too much showing and not enough telling, But like there's a lot of really excellent, subtle visual storytelling. There's some obvious ones. For example, Powder has a streak of pink and her hair yes bye bye. Vander has a Vye tattoo on his wrist. If you like pause at a certain moment, you can see it. There's all these
really excellent I mean, she's wearing the jacket. Powder is also wearing, like the necklace thing and the jacket that like Young Vie we saw all the way back in like season one, episode one was wearing. And I think one of my favorite details, like I loved the dance I got like really emotional during the slow mo dance, and of course Twitter, the Twitter salutes out there realized that the dance is shot at four frames per second, which we know four seconds is the limit to echoes time travel.
Also, as I would say, this show is definitely made. This is like if you are the kind of person who when the MCU films come out and you have to go through and pause and be finding all the different dates and like Stanley's birthday is like on a screen during this. This is a show for that in a way that I think is even more pleasant and pleasurable because it looks so good.
We'll be right back up for quick brick and we're back.
Okay, guys, Aaron put a great question in the notes. I want to ask you this because I think there's a lot of fun to be had here. If you are playing League of Legends now and you're playing solely from characters who are in the show, who is your main gonna be as we go off into this. Mine is going to be hymendinga.
Playing guitar.
Baby, I'm playing a little guyers off the board go from there?
Oh no, we can't, guys, I don't have to get my little guy. I can't pick.
Okay, Aaron, who's yours?
Then I'm gonna go with you. You all know how much I love Jace.
Just kidding, Hey, Jase, I'm gonna go the Violet, you know, like, I think there's something beautiful about how her character. My favorite parts of the show were the street level, the
ground elements. This is like Violet is kind of the Daredevil with like this is a street brawler the entire time, and my favorite actual scene in the whole thing was a zero gravity fight where Jinx is propelling herself using the minigun and Violet's propelling herself using the gauntlets, so you got a little mobility and a little bit of damage dealing. I'm gonna go with Violet.
Jason, I will pick.
I wanted to be cheeky and say Laura's the shield guy because.
He's like the sickest Bram you could ever imagine, because Vi says his name in this chapter, which I was delighted.
But I'm gonna pick because we actually have.
No idea if he's any good, you know, from anything we've seen. I would pick am Bessa because because I like her, he seems so overpowered and I don't. I've never played League. I played a little Storecraft, which I think is semi similar in terms of genre. So I'm just guessing that am Bessa would be super super OK.
What I'm calling Jason mom, because I'm going with Mel.
I love a witch, I love a spellcaster, I love goods, and she's got sixteen different great outfits throughout this show.
Hair, every time you do, like supero, whatever, she's gonna have a fantastic I would like.
Her sailor moon transformation animation when I level up or whatever.
Yeah, I'm definitely playing a smell.
I have to admit I wanted to pick Mel Joel, but I knew that if I did.
I would be in trouble.
Yeah, that's true, that's true friendship in the poll, boo, how about you?
Not only did did Jason take my Laura's ship, but he also took my ASTO pick. So I'm gonna pivot last minute to.
Echo, oh nice.
I mean the skateboard, the cover skateboard, the sword, the time travel power, everything about him is like the kind of cool I wished I could be as a kid.
And Carmen just typed into the chat. Carmen said she would take Junior officer Maddy Nolan.
Carmen said, Hey, cab Carmen said, do not put me down like that. Dude. Aaron is shading everyone today because Aaron also wrote that a Boo was going to pick Jase before I.
Do.
I will. I do want to say, though, and I hope that that I feel like our audience will appreciate this. As someone who did not know a lot about the law of arcane. My friend did make a point when we were on the way home, My incredible friend Annie Off just like showing me the original character designs of a lot of these women in the game. And I just want to thank for t and the animators because they took a game that was definitely that more traditional male gaze designs.
You can you and by the way, you can extend that to all video games.
Don't don't don't.
Don't don't point the vigger specifically at League, because it's really a problem across the space. Yeah, yeah, you know, And I I love like a street fighter, right, so like Chunley is my main Like I've seen a sexualized woman in every game, and I but because my first entry points to League was okay, and when you compare
the characters. I just think that something we need to give Fotish and Ryat and whoever else made this show credit for is like they created something that ended up reimagining these characters in a way that not only gave so many different kinds of people a fandom for them, but also like inspired like a ton of women to want to like play these characters.
The amount of unreal cosplay I've seen.
All this costplay is going to golah, It's.
Unreal, no, no, no, believe, like seeing there was so many Vie and k And also can I just say the way that anime hair pieces have expanded since the more rat days of London to now like twenty years later or whatever, unbelievable. Every piece is perfect, every hair is incredible. But like I just love even things like Jinx riding the gun that is one of her game moves.
And in the game it's definitely a lot more like obviously like phallic and kind of like out there, but in this it became this like incredibly cool character moment, and I just think that that is something to be celebrated. Because both visions still exist. You can still play the game and have the super sexy like boob version of these characters. But then there are moments in this show that are so brilliantly for the female gaze or for
a different kind of gaze, the queer gaze. I think a lot about the seat VI's back and her arms are so muscily, and her tattoos look so incredible, and I was like, oh, maybe I'm gonna get a back time, like I was just but I just think, I just think that that's another thing about this show. The show has so much to celebrate. But I was kind of blown away by how, in my opinion, how like different that is to a lot of adaptations that we've seen before.
So I just wanted to shout them out and say thank you for the for the less.
Just one more thing on that. I want to also shout out to the love scene between Cat and Vibe, because I think it I mean, you put your finger on it. It was like it was the perfectly beat. It was like super hot and not over the top, like.
Yeah, the implications of that if you understanding.
About the characters and not about your visually watching the characters, which I think often with lesbian seccines.
This was about like when she's like when when Via is like I don't care. I mean that was like whoa, Like I started sweating, and.
And also like it's like, well, that's also like that wish fulfilment element of like, oh, I've made a mistake, but my partner just wants me so bad and wants this thing that they're gonna overlook that.
And speaking of that desire to end the visual storytelling that scene. Why it worked so well was because it was all about that like consensual desire, about being desired, Like it was all the other partner undressing the other person. Yeah, the two buttons being yeah, like that from the show, not explicit, but really is really.
Just yunning yes, so yearning and the fulfillment.
So yeah.
I also wanted to call out there's a lot of people mad about that sex scene actually, because right before that is when Jinks tells her sister like I'm gonna go presumably like do something rash and die by suicide, and people are mad like, what is the whiplash I'm getting here? Why would I hear that from her sister and then immediately go have sex with Kate. I think people are missing that. That is not what I thinks Jinks is going to go do of course it's not.
Also, I just want to say, like, have you I'm sorry to people on the internet, I I love this view if this is the case, But have you never been emotionally unstable? Have you never?
Yeah?
Exactly?
I love that you happy, but you have you never gone bad news? And then tried to seek o dokamine.
Like yeah, yeah, but to be clear, there was no indication that VI knew that.
And she said like, you've got to walk away, and then literally walked away after locking her in a prison cell. I think I think that that is there, and also like, yeah, get to being in your mid thirties and you maybe will relate to that scene more.
Also, King Princess just started playing, and there was like what else are we gonna do?
We have to yeah, us here together? Yeah, come on.
I mean we can get We can talk about Dune Prophecy episode two for sec thing that goes on too long, carry character story beats at all, But that's not other episode. Speaking of other episodes, Tomorrow we have a boot leading us through Dune Prophecy episode.
One two, and on Thursday, we.
Celebrate Thanksgiving with our favorite Thanksgiving movies. And next week we begin Robert egger Is retrospective with the weekly special extra episode as we prepare for Nosferatu and begin our year end roundups.
That's it for this episode.
Thanks for listening, Thanks for joining us, producer, thanks for joining us.
Guys.
Bye, We enjoyed your one.
Oh God No.
X Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Consupson and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joel Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman and Heidi our discord moderator.