Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for episodes eight and nine, the double finale of Agatha All Along on the Disney Plus Television network. Hello, I've Jason Gittepcio and on Wedesday Night, and welcome back to Extra Revision, the podcast where we dive you to your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture. We're coming to you from My Heart podcast, where we're bringing you three episodes a week every Tuesday Thursday, with an extra episode on Wednesday.
In today's episode, Oh, It's a marvel Day, a marvelous day for Marvel News. Previously on we will be talking about that Marvel Studios look ahead preview which was honestly a bit of a surprise drop that lots of fun things to talk about. And in the airlock, of course, we will be going down the Witches Road for the final time to talk about Agatha All Along episodes eight and nine.
First up, News, and let's talk about that look ahead that was attached to the top of the Agatha finale and has a lot of really fun stuff in it, starting with little Deadpool and Wolverine drop in which Marvel says, Hey, remember us, remember when you said we couldn't do hit movies anymore.
Remember when we made a billion.
Super You're fatigued? Guess what we're back?
And this is like guaranteed it's gonna be hitting Disney Plus on November twelfth. Expect to hear all kinds of wild, hyperbolic numbers coming out from what Disney says this will be watched. But I will say, as somebody who has a ten year old nephew, this.
Will be watched lot this holiday period.
You every ten, eleven, twelve year old whose parents wouldn't take them to see how the cinema, they are going to be watching this so many times. You are going to be hearing so much Deadpool and Wolverine Law in your house during this holiday period. So if you listen to this podcast, you can go back listen to some episodes and sound like an expert when you go for a family dinner and everyone's.
Like, who's lady Deadpool? And we will be able to tell you.
Next up coming out December twenty second is the third season of Marvel's animated What If series, after what I think was a second season that some felt was a little bit of a step down from a foot down looks fun, looks fun. Interested, It is certainly interested. Next up, Your friendly Neighborhood Spider Man from Marvel Animation January. Looks really fun. We have some your punk action, you have some it looks really.
Just looks so good.
You've got some of the crew, Yeah, Jeff Treumael from Jeff Treumael from.
Craig of the Creek on this.
So I'm sure it's going to be a really fun view, very fun, kind of rotoscope ish.
Yeah, like Spider versus s.
It's very like a Spider Man and his amazing friends callback to that kind of style. Hannah Barbara ish, I'm very excited.
Looks like he's going to have a crew and a team, which we always love to see. I'm excited for this great start to the new year. We're getting that early January twenty fifth.
Next up Marvel Television's Darrell Will Board Again marched Forth twenty twenty five, the highly anticipated adaptation question Mark of the famous Frank Miller David MASSUCHELLI run on Daredevil and not much as say other than it looks. It actually looks really really beautif.
For beautifully shot.
Looks like whatever they decided to do to add because you know, they had to reshoot and everything.
It looks like it was worth while.
Next up, Rary Williams enters Marvel's television universe June twenty four to twenty twenty five. She's flipping over cars, she's flying around, she's having a fantastic time in her homemade power armor.
And she's talking to the Hood, who we get to see for the first time.
Anthony Ramos.
Looks like it's gonna be a very fun kind of magic versus science story.
I'm excited to see that. Action looks great. Nice new suit here looks great.
I'm very excited to bring on the Hood to enter the MC You not only that, but I do wonder if any of the armor war stuff is going to get put into here.
I feel like it has to write.
I feel like this has to seed armas at least if the movie is still happening.
Fingers crossed.
If next up, Eyes of Wakanda August sixth, twenty twenty five, looks I mean, it looks great. I'm very excited. Marble animation different.
Animation style than what If and what we're about to talk about that's coming up, So I'm interested in that excited.
Bran Coogler he rarely misses. So let's see it.
It's gonna be Summer of Wakonda apparently August six five.
Next up, Halloween twenty twenty five.
You can't wait for it.
It's Marvel Zombies from Marvel Animals. Folks. Take them out of the what if, give them their own little thing. Who doesn't love zombies?
You're gonna love it.
Little spooky kids are gonna love Here come the Zombies. Halloween, October twenty twenty fifth. Then finally December twenty twenty five. Who for hollyw It's everybody's favorite struggling actor and one hundred class strength superhero filled with strange energy. It's Simon Williams wonder Man original live action series Boys to launch the career of everybody's favorite actor, Avenger Simon Williams. And there's a appears to be a pretty wonderful cameo in there.
Yeah, it looks like maybe even a main role for Trevor, for Trevor of from Iron Man fame.
Everybody's a favorite actor, come terrorist. He wasn't really a terrorist, he was just pretending terrorist. But still I love having Trevor around. And yeah, I have to say this looked fun from what we saw.
It looks fun, and I love the aspect that Simon Williams is reading for wonder Man. Yes, that's the level of meta that this series needs to be. And I think with Trevor in that, I think it's gonna have like she Hulk vibes comedy vibe. So yes, I have to say I thought that this was a really really strong little tease from Marvel.
Do I worry?
I worry a little bit that they're trying to they're gonna overload twenty twenty five, which was a problem they had in the past. Maybe, but you know what, these are TV projects, that's right, and I think there's a mixture for them to be enjoyed.
It's a mixed animation, mix of animation and live action, so it's not like we're throwing everything into TV, uh, live action TV. And so I should also share your concern, But I think that certainly appears like the current Marvel strategy is more selective, and these all seem like fine selections to me.
Yeah, it looks good.
Next up, we're stepping out of the airlock to talk a season finale a Magatha along. Yeah, I Guessa all along Episode eight, follow Me My Friend to Glory to the end. We open on Alice. She did she's dead on the floor. A couple couple trials back. You remember that trial and the scary Slasher cabin. While she's there, she's dead, she repeated. She feels a cold hand with long black it is sexy cress her face. It's death.
It's Rio. She's saying, you got to come with me, because guess what, you're dead looking down there.
That's your body.
Alice is like, what, I just lifted the curse and I was gonna get on with my life and I don't have more time, Like this is it? I'm done? And she's like yeah, it's like you're a protection witch, right and you protected and then you died, So let's get out of here. By they leave, we pick up from the previous episode. Right after Lily the tower and sacrifices herself. Jen is pounding on the door trying to get Lily to come out. Already out of the road,
Agatha is just running, running, running, running. She runs into Rio, and let me tell you, Rio is having a fucking great day. She's stacked.
Death is just that's when it's on the road.
Today day. We got Alice, a little while back, we got Lilia, we got the Salem seven, all in one big bunch. That's eight. And now she's just she's just delighted. She understands now Death does that. Agatha has been hiding Billy from her, feels protective about Billy because of the whole thing with Nick and her son. Will get we will get more explanation to that, but we know that by now, uh, he should be dead, Death says, and Death finds that really terrible, Like, you can't cheat Death,
can't teach cheat me. That's not the natural order of things. Agatha says, you know, she's very again, very protective of him, and Rio says, listen, you've getting preferential treatment for a long time. You've been cheating death yourself, Agatha. True, and we need that to come to an end. I know why you tried to trick me, because of your feelings about Nick and all of that, and that makes Agatha
really upset. We go back to Billy and Jen and they're talking about Lily's sacrifice and Jen is kind of mind blown that, uh, you know, Rio is Death and they're like, where is Agatha. She's out arguing with death. They have this long they have this long history of this long relationship which we will find more about in the following episode. Not only is Billy an abomination, Rio says, but the thing he wants is going to like double the abomination because and he can do it. He's done
it himself. He can do it for his brain because Tommy shouldn't exist also, and then he's going to steal a life and come back and that's ridiculous. So Rio says, Okay, here's what's going to happen. Billy already stole a life. I can't let him steal one for Tommy. So we have to figure something out. I was like, well, why don't you just get your big scythe out and.
Reap Billy be reph not just be the reaper and do it.
And then she's like, oh, you can't, you can't. And we figure out that, uh, you know, every time Billy dies, he's just gonna reincarnate, and that's just going to continue to cheat death. Further, Rio says, what she needs in order to really get that soul is Billy needs to surrender himself to death and that will break the cycle. And Aga is like, Okay, if I do that, will
you stop stalking me? And because the vibe you get is that while there is tremendous passion between these two, it's also like very unhealthy.
Yeah, they definitely did have a relationship at one point, but it has not been It's consential on both sides for a long time, like death is obsessed.
It's doctors now, yes, And so they make that deal Billy's surrendering. Agatha will trick him into surrendering somehow, and in exchange, Rio will leave Agatha alone for the rest of her life until she dies. And even when she dies.
She won't she doesn't want.
To see her, she won't show her face. Jen and Billy walk and talk about Rio and Agatha, and Agatha overhears them and then says scolds them basically, and it's like, we need to continue the journey. There's one more trial left. Problem is it's earth magic and they're Greenwitch is death and she's gone. Now can Jen handle it? Agathus is like really actually mean to Jen, is like, why you know, I can't believe that you're one of the last ones
left and who would have thought? Like you're kind of the most powerless against us, you know, the most powerless of us currently in the coven. And then she trips over a pair of shoes and they realize that they've come back to where they started. These are the shoes they took off when they walk the road. The road
is a circle. So where's the last trial? No one knows. Agatha, who has been saying that she's been on the road and is the only one to walk the enemy, clearly has never been here before because.
She has never been it. She's like, what is going on?
Yes, Jen is very very sad, which is a natural response at seeing their dead friends now empty footwear, and Agatha's like, Okay, fuck it, let's just go around again. Jenn's like, no fucking way, I'm not going around.
Again, and Billy's like, fuck this. We took the shoes off because.
We respected the road, so I'm putting my shoes back on to disrespect the road.
Everything goes black and they all emerge from body bags in a morgue. This is the final trial. There's lights on the ceiling, which Jen notices that are there grow lights like in a greenhouse or in a indoor weed operation. That's very weird. Agatha realizes all their stuff is in the body bags with them. Jen puzzles it out. She really wants to solve this puzzle and save Agatha Billy so she can get her power back. But Billy points
out that you already saved us. You know, you saved Agatha from the poison, you saved me previously, and maybe you have your magic already, maybe like you don't need to get it back. So Jen is now wondering, man, maybe that spooky doctor at Boston didn't actually take my magic hundred years ago, and that rings a bell for Agatho who realizes guess what she was the spooky doctor who stole Jen's magic or bound her up, so she gathered Jen.
It seems like she was binding witches as a way to like un money and maybe like move any kind of witch suspicion away from That's how.
Jen's kind of Jen's pitch.
She's pissed, but she's also kind of lucky that that Agatha, as we will see in the next episode, wasn't doing the other thing that she was doing for many years, which is which is serial killing witches. We'll get to that later. Jen does an unbinding spell on Agatha and it works. Jen has power back up, and she disappears. She leaves the road. She's gone. Good for her. Agatha is like, yep, she got what she wanted from the
road and she's out of here. Billy and Agatha argue about what Agatha really wants, which he's really up to. He suspects she wants to take his power. Meanwhile, up on the ceiling, the puzzle countdown lights are slowly turning off. Agatha tells Billy that Rio is really upset about the Tommy thing. Billy says, like, I don't even know how I did it. This is clearly like motherlike son, where they just don't have.
They don't really have any control over at this.
Point, they don't have enough. They have some, but not enough. And AGAs is like, okay, well, let's work through this.
Tell me your last memories of Tommy, and she puts him into a kind of like hypnotic state where he's remembering falling asleep with Billy and and she begins to regulate his breathing like breathing time with his breathing, and she wants uh Billy to find Tommy, find him as their mother Wanda was in that moment, was folding space, and they were beginning to disappear, and Billy sees a vision, has a vision of a boy dying, drowning as his friends watch, and uh, he realizes that maybe he can
put Tommy's soul into this body, like his soul.
Yes, like find a dead pass and just do it.
Find somebody who's gonna die. But then he's like, wait a minute, am I killing? Would he have died before?
And that's a that's the mark of a good person. Thank you, Billy for not wanting to kill somebody. So Billy wants to know if he's the one killing the boy, and as he voices this, we come back to the room and Billy has disappeared, and Agatha has just there alone, and she says in a very sad way that sometimes boys die. She opens up her locket she pulls out Nick's hair and there's like a little seed, a little
dandelion seed behind it. She touches it to her tiar and then plants it in some dirt that was like where Billy was sitting, and a dandelion grows and the dirt starts pouring into the room. Agatha, initially happy that the dandelight is growing is now sad because she's being buried alive.
Yeah, She's like, I just didn't go to She.
Emerges from her Westview basement out into her backyard to Rio laughing at her, and Agatha is really upset. She's like, I did my end of the deal. I got Billy to like die basically to surrender herself to the void, and so now you should be leaving me alone. And Rio's like, no, you didn't because he was supposed to come with me. You're supposed to like take him to me, and then he would greed.
And it was also like I'm I made it to the end of the road. Where's my power?
Power?
Stuff? So then Rio's like shut up and begins just torturing her, like throw She's like I'm gonna kill your going broken glass in her face and doing all this terrible stuff and the very toxic relationships, very very toxic. Meanwhile, all the residents of West v are like, here we fucking go again.
This Yeah, because she's on the roof laughing like a wicked witch in the west and everyone's like, oh god again, like more witches.
So just as Rio is about to like do the killing blow on Agatha, something knocks her away and it's wicked, wicking, full wicked costume. He flies in to the rescue and he's like, okay, Agatha, I'm gonna power. I'm gonna give you some juice, just don't take it all. And so he gives her a little juice, but then he's like giving her more juice, and then he's like, no.
She's considering taking it. Like he's very close.
He's his face is starting to look, you know, dried up and desiccated, and he's he can't really stop juicinger. He's very reliant on her deciding Okay, that's enough, and it seems like Billy's gonna die. But then she's like, okay, that's enough. I'm not gonna take any more.
I'm juiced.
I'm juiced. Rio comes out and says, well, here's the new deal. If one of you comes with me, the other one can live whatever. Rio bats away, Wickan and Agatha and Rio go to to toe for a while. Billy comes out knocks Rio for a loop. Again. Agatha and Billy have a conversation and she's like, I should go with Rio, like I'll be the one that does it, and this genuine there really is actual. But then Billy moved by Agatha's selfless sacrifice, so no, no, no, no, I will I'll do it.
It's my.
Just and she's like yeah, and she's like, go ahead and see you, Billy. Rio put my yard back the way it was. The propertys tout a bad en off already, yeah, make it nice, and Billy is like, how dare you dupe me? And then he calls out to her with his thoughts. He's like, you can hear me, I know you can hear me, and he says, is this how Nicky died?
Oh?
Did you trade your son for power? And Agatha is so genuinely distressed and heartbroken that someone would think this that she changes her mind and kisses Rio passionately on the mouth, and then finally then she falls slowly dead, decays fun guy cover her body a beautiful shaft of sunlight on the grave. Rio watches all this happen and then Rio's like you can go, Billy.
Yeah, She's like, bye, We're done.
Billy walks to his William Kaplan superroof forester and drives incredible.
In the full costume, like in the full wicking.
Costume, like looking like he's going to.
Have He's got their faces bloody.
And everyone in west who's looking at him like, oh, what's going on? And he's just like I'm getting in my supero forest.
Of course, the Caplains are very upset that their son has been gone for twenty four hours, no phone.
Twenty four interesting, Yeah, is that the whole time that they were on the road in the entire time?
That wow. But apparently he manages to just talk his way into letting him just like, he give me a minute, He goes up, he takes a shower, ghosters room and if you go on episode seven was a usual Suspects type vib Guess what he just got it? Guess this is what we were right?
Is it not? M hm? So I do believe we definitely talked about it. Joelle was a big proponent of this.
It's been a big talking point in our discord. There was a conversation and I am very interested in this because I think it's an exceptionally cool idea and it's even more uncontrolled than Wonder because he has no ideas, whereas Wonder had some idea.
Now maybe with practice, you know, he can develop these things. But he's a scary guy right now. Anyway, William begins, Billy begins looking around his room, and he starts to realize that everything that they encountered on the road has a reference point on his wall. The Luna wood shadowing and the Wizard of Ours figurines are the picture of a of a beachside scene with a beautiful little beach house. All this stuffs.
Shoeses like the empty shoes and everything in the room is now clearly a touch point for what inspired his magic to craft and bring the road to life. That is the thing I will say that I think it's slightly different about the theories that were going around. The idea that Billy essentially like created Hex's magic like West for you to make a fake world is not necessarily
what we learn. It's more that he created a real version of the Witch's Roads that had never existed, which I think is very interesting.
Yes, the never existed part, I think is uh is important. He yeah, so uh, he's blown away by this that he.
Did finds the weija board.
Yeah, really he did this Where he starts to see.
And it starts to really like you know, sink in, like Lily is dead, Alice is dead, he did this, and just as he is kind of trying to piece the shards of his mind back together, he hears a sound behind him say, boom yeah. We go to the next episode, Mother Crone Maiden Mother Crone. We open on seventeen fifty, the year seventeen fifty. Agatha is running through the wood. She is very, very pregnant. She leans against a tree. She's trying to give birth, but then Rio
shows up. It's like, Nope, this is not going to happen, and this is the moment. This is the choice, and we see the choice and what Agatha essentially chooses, and what Rio offers her is time with her child, who will be Nick, but only a period of time, and she won't tell Agatha how long do you think.
I wasn't sure in that moment if this was a predetermined choice, or if it was just you're having a baby in the seventeen fifties and that baby's gonna die and so so Death showed.
Up and was like, the baby's gonna die.
But because she likes Agatha, she was like, I can offer you time, but I can't take him, not take him.
I think what happened. It's a good question I think what's happening is that Nick is not a real child. In that I think Nick is also created by magic. I think Agatha created Nick by magic, which you want to have a child, she didn't want to. She didn't there were no men that met her standards, which I.
Get it, Yes, so she created it.
So she created him from magic. And I think Rio Death was like, no, no, no, you can't do that. That's a no no. But because I love you, I'll give you. I'll give you time.
I think you're right, that's absolutely what it is.
So and I think and I think the name lets you know that this is what happened. Scratch created from scratch, nixt.
Yeah, she even I think she even says that to him, And I mean it's it's essentially yeah, like Anakin forced baby vibes. You know, she created this baby from magic. Yeah, Billy and Tommy like, you know, it's that Wonder with's what Wonder says to Strange where he's like, you created them from magic, and she's like, that's what all mothers do. Yeah, isn't that what all mothers do? And then we get it here.
Also, I think a.
Very interesting kind of nod to the nature of magic in the MCU as something that has been around for a lot longer. And we get that note from Chen about how the old you know, Rio said she's the green Witch and death is about this constant cycle of life and birth and decay, and obviously creating a baby from scratch of magic means that you would be evading that. So I think, I think you're right. And I loved
kind of med evil, uh Rio. She looked so great in that costume, and she also looked so heartbroken to do her job, which you know, was to reap the unnatural baby.
Yeah. So Agatha then walks through the she's walking through the woods with her baby. She comes across a coven. They're doing which stuff in the woods? Long story protection? This is they got protection stones, yes, and long story short, Agatha talks her way in and she kills them, steals their power six years past, clearly of doing this on a regular basis.
Oh, this is that whole life.
Yeah. And and what we've the pattern they've fallen into is young Nick goes into whatever town or villages nearby and looks sad and will lure a.
Witch which tends to be sickly.
She has to be sickly, a witch will come and offer him help, and then he will lead that witch back to Agatha, who will kill that witch and then steal their power and then use that power to nourish Nick.
Okay, so my I did think that. My odd thing is I wonder.
If if she keeps giving bodies to Rio then Rio doesn't come off.
I think that's I think that's part of it.
Yeah, because the night they don't kill someone, that's when Nick dies the next day. So I definitely think it's connected.
Yeah, so that's part of it. Uh. That said, despite this ghulish existence, mother and son have a wonderful relationship. They hang out in the woods. She does magic tricks for him. She can do everything for him except make him a plate of food and feed him because he can't eat.
He can't doesn't seem like he can eat. Yeah, he has natural food.
He has to survive on this magic that she steals, and she only has an unknown amount of time with him again until Rio comes back.
And we learn like while they walk around the woods, we learned that it's Nick who created the Witch's Road song because he started it off by singing down.
Over the years.
Down the winding road and eventually it would kind of change into this song that became a calling card that would become part of their con.
Well, sure, he probably wrote the song, but I think the story of like, oh yeah, there's this road, there's this magic road that was clearly going to be Agathas. That's Agathas dud don't.
I don't think that.
I think that the two of them made the song together, like a lullaby to sing while they were just wandering around and doing this. And I think it was only after when, only when she realized that it appealed to other witches, that she then took a bontage of it.
I don't think it was necessarily created that way. I think the creation was relatively pure between the two of them, but then she saw that people started to hear it and think, oh, this must be real, and that would draw more witches to the power of them.
I think it's actually I think you're right, but I actually think it's significantly more ghoulish than that. I think what happened is they're singing this song, witches do come and talk to to Nick. Then those witches disappear. Then Agatha says, oh, they walk the road.
They walked the witches.
Oh, they walked the witches road, and they just didn't come back. And that's what it is, you know, if you want to walk the child is very dagous women in that path.
Wow, that's bleak and I love it.
It's and then it became this legend amongst witches, which is really fucked up. So anyway, in the meantime, mother and son spend this wonderful time out in you know, pre America, North America, in this wonderful Terrence Malick like cinematography and Nick. We see Nick later on singing this the Ballad of the Road in a public house. Uh, and a witch comes up and offers Nick help again here.
And she.
Where did you hear something range song?
Like, there's a moment here where I feel like Nick realizes that could be like an uncovering or an interest or something that would connect with these witches even more about the song, and he's like, no, I'm fine, i gotta go home.
So clearly by this point there is like a there is like a legend of this song by now. So yeah, Nick is like no, even though he looks terribly like wan and pale and needs sustenance. He says no because he doesn't want to kill anyone, and as he and his mom are walking away, actually, when she finds him in the woods later, he's basically saying, hey, can we do why do we have to keep doing this? Like we can kill it just tomorrow. I don't want to
do it today, and Agasa is like fine. They fall asleep and in the night, Rio comes calls Nick over to him, and when Agatha wakes up in the warning Nick is dead, she's very, very sad. She buries him. She sings and weeps over the grave, and then the witch from that bar that heard the song comes over and she's like because Agatha was singing it over the grave, and she's like, oh, I heard you singing that song.
I have desperate need of to walk the Witch's road because I need I need something from the Wish's road, and if you will show me the way of the road, I would be so pleased. Of course, Agatha says. So. Aga says, first step, we need a coven, So they gather up a coven. They all join hands, they sing the ballad, and Agatha portrays them and steals her power, and we see her do this again and again and again for like over for like two centuries.
Hundreds of years.
Yeah, so if we're thinking like every month, twice a month.
Then I'd say twice a month.
That's generous to Agatha because she's probably doing it more. She's greedy.
So what do you think her body count as? So wait, first of all, when Nick, I think she was killing, which is whenever Nick was hungry.
I like that read that's very dark. I think that's true. And I also think that she was knowing how death is. And earlier in the episode, when in the first episode, when we see her on the road and Rio catches up with her, death says, Oh, they're dying, just like you promised me.
So I guess that there is some kind.
Of unspoken agreement between them that the bodies from the Witch's Road Cone which is now you know, a real Witch's Road thanks to Billy, have been going to Rio for a reason. And I think that it was a duality of Nick needing.
Them and then Rio.
Wanting the bodies, And that seemingly is how Agatha has evaded death for so long. If she gives Rio these bodies, she can kill, Yo won't collect her.
And she and she gets powered up right the whole time, she's like also gaining power.
But I don't know.
I think that it is more of like a There was an interesting conversation about this in the discord, and I do think some people raise some interesting points, which is like, if Agatha had just kept consistently having that like gaining this power, she would have been incredibly overpowered.
But we know that's never really been the case even when her mom, Like after her mom killed her, she struggled to have powers when surely she could have just killed more witches, and she definitely was killing witches in a more modern age than after her mom tried to kill her.
So I do also.
Think it's maybe like the witches who die are more to keep her alive and kind of keep her vaguely with a little bit of power and a taste of power. But I think they're more for rio it's because it's really bad. Well, if you think about it, though, it aligns, it aligns with what we know of death because in this version Jack Jack Shaeffer has said, she doesn't you know, obviously we saw a different version of Thanos who killed for a stupid reason, didn't kill for a hot sexy death.
This is what Death's appetite is.
In the comics Death set, you know, Thanos kills half of the population of the universe for death, and then she's just like, y okay, sure, But here, I think like we have a similar situation where Agthur has gotten herself into a situation where no matter how many people she kills for death, it's never really enough she's killed. If we think about it, let's say let's say ten, which is a month.
I just feel like twelve hour. Here's my issue. They're dying anyway. Everybody's dying anyway. People are dying all the time. Agatha mentioned the numbers. It's like six a minute or whatever it is like in the world, Like, why do we then need to hasten these witches along?
You're getting that's just what death likes. That's what death likes. She's just greedy.
Death likes people to kill full hot she does like canon. Okay, So I would say, if we're going with the very generous six, if we're saying it's going to be like six witches, five witches.
Let's call it five witches a month.
Let's say it, okay, for sixty a.
Year, ten a month, So one hundred and twenty a year.
One hundred and twenty a year times one hundred.
Year, seventeen fifty so time, okay, eight hundred yeah, two hundred times two hundred and fifty years. Hold on, So like let's see.
Okay, thirty thousand Jesus.
People, Wowatha, I mean I would also say festival.
He is technically a mass murderer because she kills like five people at a time. And now she's a super mass murder because you're talking about thirty thousand. She's up there people, You're talking about one of the highest death counts in the MCU.
I think it's hurt. Like obviously Thanos killed on hest he got the crown, but then they got they came back. Then we have Yondu trafficking unknown amounts children to their to their deaths for a long time. There's a mountain of bones that we see.
He did really bad stuff.
Yeah, and now we have Agatha who has been just slaughtering witches for two hundred and thirty years.
Ultron obviously low hi Hella, I mean I would say, yeah, but still not that bad compared to thirty thousand. I mean, I think kill Manga, he killed like two thousand people when he was in the military, but still not that celestial ego.
He is definitely the level. But really I have.
To say, I think, okay, so oh yeah, high evolutionary another James Gunn introduction.
There he is in the millions.
But I really do think that this is a very This is much more intimate than a lot of those people. She has celestials. They've exactly the celestials, just like they just kill.
A planet, like they don't know what's going on on that planet.
Yeah, this woman is like actively seeking out marginalized women.
She's and I think that's crazy.
Is that when she had when she had sweet Baby, Sweet Baby Nick, he made it so she was less of a threat, so they would let her into the circle. Once he's gone, she needs something to love them, and that becomes the road where she's offering them power. She's offering them this, that and the other. I mean it is, it's so so deeply bleak, and I love it. I do.
It's great. Anyway, So we then see so we see this montage of Agatha killing all these witches down through history, like right to our present coven of witches, and we see her gather them together sing the ballad, she betrays him, but then something shocking happens. The entryway to the road actually appears for the first time ever. What And in that moment, in this flashback, we see that Agatha realized this is Billy. Billy's doing this. She realized in that moment.
She realized it straight away, straight away.
So she's appearing to him as a ghost now from the afterlife. She doesn't quite know how the ghost thing, you know, works yet, but she's a fast study. She'll figure that out. And Billy is like, did I do that? Did I make the road? And AGA's like, yes, the ballad was a con. It never meant anything. She doesn't really mention the thousands of I think, but that's.
Also not just that I think, like there's still this hidden paw of Agatha wey. She's like, it never meant a thing, but it did mean something to her because it was with Hassan.
That's right.
But yeah, very interesting And then yeah, on the road, Billy created it.
So Billy is now coming to terms with the idea that he killed you know, Alice and Lilia, he killed some of their companies. Very upset by this, Agatha is like well, but Jen made it so like if you do the if you add it up, it's really we're only like down one or maybe with like even like you can call it even.
Also she's like, honestly, you saved the life because I was gonna kill them all in my basement.
That's right. So really, like who's it's a win? Elsewhere, we see Jen crawl out of the dirt right in front of the West View sign and she flies away. She's got her power back.
Yeay, off to meet man Thing. Yeah, come back to mentor Billy, that's my dream. Do you think she's Jericho drum No, she I think Jen in in the book. In the comics, Jennifer Klee is like a witch. She's like connected to man thing that's like her husband and stuff.
So I think they're gonna explore it.
But I wouldn't be surprised to see them connect her to the drum family because also we are getting like young Jericho Drummond House of Harkness, so it feels like they're bringing that element up.
So uh and so out of the tells Billy, well, this is what it means to be a witch. You kill for magic and then you keep living Billy doesn't like that, but what's he gonna do. He goes back to Agatha's basement, where he sees the road entrance. Agatha, who is haunting him, is like mocking him, and she's like, what are we doing this? She's like, tell you what, Just give me my brooch, which I know you have, and I will leave. Billy ignores her. He does some spells,
he chants over Agatha's brooch. He's trying to banish her, but she's not banishing. And then eventually she admits that she doesn't want to go full full dead into the afterlife because that would mean facing her son Nick and and having to admit all the things she's done.
I e.
And the thousand women that she's.
Killed, Yeah, and and creating him out of nothing and then killing all these people to keep him alive. Agatha manages to pick up the brooch. After this stops the chanting and Billy drops the brooch and she manages to pick it up. She puts it on. Billy's like, wow, you really figure out this ghost thing, and Agatha is like you know. He then says, you know, I'm sure if you went to the afterlife like fully, like Nick would forgive you, and Agatha is very touched by this.
She's like, you know, I'm a hardcore, hardened ted Bundy of witches, but when you say those kind of things to me, like it reminds me of Nick because Nick always had this kind of like love for me, but I didn't deserve. And next thing, you know, it certainly seems like a team up Billy and Agatha, Wickan and the Ghost. It seems like they're gonna do this together.
Billy magically turns the road door into a memorial to their coven, and then Agatha turns human says, let's go find Tommy and boom they're off.
Wow, crazy stuff, crazy crazy, But I do I like, I really like the idea of this, like Agatha, Ghost Billy team up because I think even though obviously we know she killed you know, thirty thousand people, at least Billy doesn't know that.
All he knows is she is.
A flawed person who has killed lots of people, and he, at that moment in time, is judging himself and feeling like he too is an evil murderer because of creating the hecks. I think the saddest thing is that with the Witch's Road. What's clear about it is they probably actually could have walked out at any point, like if there had been this realization, the way that Jen climbed out, the way that Lily they almost walked out to the you know, the railroad underneath Westview, like. But I think
it's very interesting. I hope we get to see more of these two together, and I think this is I think this is one of the best Emcu shows.
I agree the Salem seven was that also Billy, I think so.
I I do. Maybe I think it was like she got the sauce, so maybe she.
Got the sauce. Maybe they were really after Agatha. I don't know.
I did feel like there was a maybe they actually had come out of the ground, not for Agatha, but actually for Billy because he was in a different body, kind of like we saw in Doctor Strange. I think they left it open for interpretation. There's lots of interpretation here. Also, Aaron Super producer pointed out a great point where she what Agatha says to Nick when he's born is I spoke no spell, said, no incantation. You were made from scratch.
So that kind of of implies if it was magic, it wasn't necessarily her magic or maybe it really is the magic of biology. But even then, the time that he was on was obviously stolen time because he could never seem to survive.
So yeah, very very interesting. Who was your MVP in this show?
Wow? I mean, I think it has to be Catherine Hahn, who's yeah, managed to walk a line between funny and dramatic evil and also the kind of like villain that you could that you want to hang out with. And I think that's.
Actually and you want to root for for sure.
I think that's actually a very very tough thing to do. And I think Joe Locke was amazing. I think he's just got a presence of perfect Yeah. So I think those two, you know, it's hard to go wrong with anybody in this cast. Lapone.
I think that I will say that is that's very true. I would have liked to see.
I would have liked to see more of her. I think that a Tower Verse episode is like as good as it gets in MCU television. I agree, who is your MVP?
I'll just go I'll go for Aubrey Plaza as Death because I think it's fantastic casting. I would have loved just every time she was on screen. I wanted to see more of her. I feel like she crafted a villain that was appealing at first but grew more toxic and that I would love to see more of. I would see her go to to toe with Thanos, I would see her go to to toe with Loki.
I could also see her become.
An unexpected ally as it is in the future. So because you picked two of the great uh, two of the greats, I will add Aubrey in there because and also her witch's cackle is is one for the for the end. So now that we have Billy, who has really been our big missing piece for the Young Avengers, how soon do.
We see them? How likely do you think it is that they're going to start seeding that? I do you think?
I would imagine after this round of twenty twenty five stuff that we're going to start seeding that. And I would imagine that the Doom stuff, once that culminates, that will clear the road for a new Avengers team that will be I think we'll get the Young Avengers concurrent with the Doom stuff.
And then yeah, it makes sense if they're going to do a secret war style, Yeah, we need multiple.
Teams and then post Doom, I think the Young Avengers take the mantle. But we have them all now we do.
I was gonna say, like, who are you most excited? I think it's going to be super fun to see Billy with Kate Bishop. I think those two will have really fun chemistry. I think him and Kamala will have really fun chemistry.
Well, we don't have we don't have Hulkling.
Yeah, we don't have Hulkling.
Yeah unless unless Edward that we met in this will become Teddy and is Hulkling.
I feel or of his own. You feel like the secret of his own.
I feel like he looked he looked like good casting.
Also, it's tough after post you know, the secret invasion of it all. It's kind of it's tough to know, like how much more scroll stuff we're going to get, But I do believe the the Marvels still gave a good space for Scroll cree kind of shenanigans.
Also, something that is very interesting.
About the original Young Avengers comics, which we talked about, is every character is essentially like a fake out, like.
You thought they were someone.
You thought that Billy was like young thor you thought that Iron Lad was young iron Man. You thought that Hulkling was young Hulk, but they were. They all had these kind of secret reveals behind them, so it'll be interesting they could do something like that with hulk Ling.
But yeah, I think I expect to see that stuff seeded pretty soon, especially because this has been really well received, and I think that Joe Locke does feel like, uh a kind of immam villany level of oh week, can this really could carry the next generation.
When Wanda comes back. Because she's coming back.
She's coming back, baby, it's happening.
How's she gonna feel about Agatha basically becoming a surrogate mother to her son.
I think that she's gonna They're gonna be catti and have beef over it at first. I especially think with the line where you know, Billy said, she's not my mother. I think that's probably what woke Wander up from wherever she was. Wander recently was saying on a press tour for Love and Death, Elizabeth Olsen was saying, you know, if there's a good way to use her, I'm always happy to come back. However, they can make it make sense. They can make it make sense because you're the scarlet witch. Baby,
it's gonna happen. I think that she won't like it at first. But also there is an echo here of like when Agatha was Wonder's mentor in the comics. And I also think there's something fun about how a kind of ghost character. They could do a lot of fun stuff with possession here, very like Bill and Ted's style. I will be very interested to see Jack Schaefer give her the MCU.
For a little bit.
Come on, guys, especially with Doom. Doom is a magical character. Yeah, I have a note we need her.
I do have a note regarding the MCU's uh, you know, burgeoning magic worlds. Do we need a little bit more of a system because it.
Feels I think we need magic systems.
It feels it feels a little too loose, like anything can happen. And I get it with Billy. It made sense with Billy and Wanda because they were not in control, so they didn't understand what they were capable.
But the other witch's powers just look kind of similar.
Yea necessarily rule and it's hard to know what they can do, what they can't do, what the stakes are when they when it's kind of like this ruless, formless thing, and so I do hope as we get more magic characters, the Hood is a as a magical character, although we don't place that don't know, we don't know, if you see that feels like a good.
Place to set up a system. Yeah, where the magic systems are fun and it.
Gives you some idea of like what's going on, what a character's cable I do. I did feel towards the back end of this series like I would love to know what the limits are a little bit because it feels a little too mushy right now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree, especially when you start seeing all the witches using the power and they all look exactly the same. I'm yeah, I would love to see some magic systems coming in because also those are so fun to talk about and how do they work and who is powered, especially in a world where we have like systems for the mutants and different ways that people get powers that are superpowers. Yeah, I'm I'm definitely very interested.
Good.
Aaron put another great point here, which is like nice that they didn't end in a big, messy CG battle.
Yeah, I'm glad that the something that was a lot more fun didn't feel the name.
Yeah, I just thought this was a great show and I'm very excited to see what comes next. What is the next EMCU project, like live Action MCU project.
Is there a movie.
In the next Yeah, I'm like, Oh, Captain America Brave New World in February fifteenth.
Question Mark because it it feels like question Mark. Well, just because that movie there's been so many rewrites and reshoots and every.
Loss of controversy and all the testing has been bad like and continues to be bad, and so I don't know, let's see, yea, let's see what happened.
I would be that's true.
I will say this is an out there swing, and I hope this doesn't have this kind of stuff really hard for people who are working on the movies. But I could see a world where that date is switched with the Thunderbolts date, because Thunderbolts is meant to be the big Free Comic Book Day movie May two, twenty twenty five. I'm guessing that they put Captain America Brave New World in February because they want to do Black
History Month for Black Captain America with Sam Wilson. But wouldn't I wouldn't be shocked if those were switched, because I do think that Julena is very much in that young Avenger's mindset, and it seems like Thunderbolts has been
done for a while. It will be interesting to see, but it's very interesting that basically none of those projects are tonally akin to this at all now, So we're going to be ending on this high and then we're probably not going to be seeing anything similar to this till maybe June next year with Ironheart.
Let me ask you this, maybe if we get a young Avengers team who Stark obviously not here anymore, so who who who has the power to bestow the Avengers title on a person now? Because that's unclear to me.
You know what, I think they would probably do something along the line. They will probably go the emotional route, which is like Pepper is actually the one who says you're them the key and says you're on the team. Maybe they would even have Morgan show up to kind of get more of that emotional vibe. But also I think really you're looking at kind of Bruce Banner and doctor Strange, those are probably your.
Your older Avengers.
Now, maybe they would call in somebody like Valkyrie and Thor, and it's more of a kind of like group from around the galaxy, kind of bringing in different people. But you do raise a good point. With Tony Stark not there, it's harder to have somebody say, well, I will say, I will say there is a Robert Downey Junior character who will be coming in who's known.
For Mackie Avellian choices.
And maybe there is some world where this is like Doom's Avengers, and and that would actually kind of make sense with Yolena is an assassin, Kate Bishop is essentially like a rogue hero. Kam La Khan is a great good girl, but she would probably do anything for someone who looked like Tony Stark.
But Billy is.
Technically a killer. So maybe there's a world where they play on that. But I think you raise a very interesting point, and how they do that is gonna be key. Now Robert Downey Junior is back in the space, so perhaps he just records like a classic Tony Stark video message, I have been watching you for a long time.
I program my my AI to be me, so now I'm.
Just I'm a guy in a box.
Maybe Rody is involved you know he is Tony's best friend. But yeah, I think you raise a very good point and it's gonna be very interesting to see where this all lead.
Well. Coming up next week on X ray Vision, we're talking about our other favorite streaming show, Pengwine. Hey the Penguin.
He I'm from Ayside.
Hey Hey, a guy like me having a podcast. I can't believe it. Then we will have no episode on Tuesday, but our extra screw will be around with Rosie to rewatch Urcane season one finale episodes eight nine, And then on Thursday, we're gonna bring the cozy. We're gonna start We're just.
Failing a blow Man love Cozy Winter's coming.
We're gonna talk about Chilis and our favorite cozy content. When you just want to get away from it all, what do you do?
Just be chilling? What do you do? We'll tell you what we do.
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Bye.
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kensupsion and Rosie Night and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a boo Z Afar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
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