Agatha All Along Episode 6

Hello, My name is Ja Sconcepi and I Mersday Night and welcome back to x ray vision of the podcast when We Dive be your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture coming to you from iHeart Podcast.

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Guys.

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Almost every day of the week, you may hear an Extra Vision podcast if you keep your eyes trained to your feed. And in today's episode of Extra Vision, which we'll be releasing on Tuesday, I think.

In the previously on Tom Hollanden's and Day, we're very happy with The Spider Man for script, which is exciting, and we're gonna talk about Lionsgates bad bad, not good terror year at the box office. We're also going to talk about Amazon's God of War TV show, which is also not having a great year.

In the airlock, Oh my gosh Wow, Episode one and six of AGAs that we're going to talk about, and in the back batter we're gonna maybe discuss familiars, so this might get cut.

That's previously on.

First up, tough year at the movie theater, particularly for lions Gate picture Baby, which is out over half eight billion dollars, folks. Creas a very tough time at lions Gate, beginning with director Eli Ross historically reviled adaptation of the Borderlands video game series titled Borderlands, which lost a ton of money gross less than dollars in the US.

Why did they? Why did they make it? Pg? Thirteen. I'll never understand.

To come see it as they could.

I know.

But guess what, guys, I got a secret. In America, a child can go to an R rated movie if someone buys them a ticket. That is not the case in any other country. In England, you have to be eighteen they will be iding you. But here you could make a popular rated movie, as they have done with The Joker, et cetera, The First Joker.

But yeah, and we and there's so many more.

As a quick aside, we must note that it has been reported in various outlets, including Wire Entertainment, that ticket sales for The Wild Robot Robot have been seeing a bump, and this is being attributed to teens sneaking into Terrifier three after buying tickets to Wild Robot.

I am proud of.

The children for continuing the important tradition of sneaking into cinematic releases that you are too young to But yeah, this was a really bad year, so they had Obviously, board Lands was expected to be a massive money maker, huge franchise.

It was a flop.

Then they had The Killers. Never let go the halle Berry movie The Crow.

I enjoyed it, but nobody else did.

Whitebird, which was a sequel to Wonder, and of course, they were the studio that faithfully chose to pick up Megalopolis.

I have seen it. I don't know what they were thinking, but wild so it was.

Not going well for them. Their string of flops has essentially meant that they have lost six hundred and ninety two million dollars this year. Maybe they're going to try and do some kind of tax evasion. That seems like what happens whenever these companies lose money. But it has seen their owner Lion's space Gate lions Gate Entertainment not One Word, which owns eighty seven percent of lions Gate One Word Studios, has seen it shares for thirty four percent.

This is they are attempting to kind of spin off the various assets under the larger corporate umbrella. Not a good time to release a series of flops. But looking at these titles, start with making a good movie. That's kind of always the secret. It's kind of always the secret. Listen that doesn't a good movie doesn't ensure success, but it surely doesn't. It doesn't hurt because then you get legs. Then you get streaming, then you get all these other

So just make a good movie.

I will say the caveat for that.

When I watched The Crow in the cinema, I did think it felt like it could be number one on Netflix. You know when everyone just watches a bad movie because they want to talk about it. And then like l magazine is writing about The Crow and all these random like magazines that are not in the geek space because people are watching it so much on Netflix.

So Lionscape, maybe you can get a good second window deal.

I also feel like Megalopolis potential for people to want to watch at home. I will say the movie itself was not for me, but the final like ten minutes are so hilarious. They include a line and a moment that are so hilarious. I would encourage everyone to watch. But yeah, onto a movie that's likely going to be way more popular, which is a Spider Man for sadly not a lions Gate movie. They will not be making their money back on that.

Tom and Sindia have read the script for Spider Man four and while they say quote it needs work, but the writers are doing a great job, they're also tremendously excited.

I thought that was very sassy comment.

A very sassy comment.

And the promo has begun early in the life cycle of Spider Man four, but this is it's positive news.

This is a real movie worthy of fans respect. I like that. I'm interested in what that means.

Destin Daniel Kretten, we love him short term twelve Shang Chi.

I think this was his Sorry.

About Kang makeup movie, So I'm very excited for that. I think, Jason, what is your biggest prediction for this movie?

What's it going to be about? Oh?

My gosh, what is my breateest?

My biggest prediction for this movie is how does it's going to be all about a more street level Spider Man? And I think, as Holland has said, he's expressed his desire most recently in Comic book dot Com of getting Miles Morales somehow into the world.

I think we're gonna.

Start ourselves down a road where Tom Holland can exit the stage via death and Miles can take over. So I think that whether it happens in that movie or it sets the stage for that, I think we're moving towards that.

I think that best case scenario is.

Peter is a teacher and he's teaching Miles, and they end up coming together, and Miles looks up to Spider Man but doesn't know.

Peter is Spider Man, so has this jeweling kind of relationship, almost like Superman Clark Kent. He's a teacher as a mentor, and he Spider Man is a mentor. And yeah, the rumors were in those old, long ago Sony Leaks. This is law from a long time ago, if you're a youngster listening to this. But in the long ago Sony Leaks, the rumor was that the deal that Marvel made with Sony was that they would have to do three live action Peter Parker Spider Man movies before they could have Miles.

Proud guy, because I was like, whoa, he's like.

They're one of my fav couples. Maybe that I.

Love him, love that because they genuinely seem like in love.

I know, it's actually really sweet.

I support them, and I hope that they're getting a lot of money for being in this movie, and I hope that they're gonna have a great time making it. And I hope that obviously Mary Jade and Peter managed to find each other again, because that is such lovely casting.

Sorry I should say MJ and Pizza.

Anyway, to another thing that's not going so well for somebody.

Amazon's adaptation of the Triple A video game title God of War.

I Love God of War, I Love God.

Two of the most so good. The last two God of War games have been highlights in the gaming calendar of two of the best games released in recent years. Unfortunately, the adaptation is not going well. Production started pre production and production started about two years ago, and they've had to scrap and start over. The showrunner has left various turnover at the executive level. All of this means we're probably not going to get a God of War TV show.

For I don't know, four years or something.

Yeah, maybe off in the next game.

Yeah, who knows, but you know, hopefully it's good.

Hopefully it's good. Up next. Lego School for Mutants. Listen.

We've talked many a time on this program about the fact that Lego often spoils things we love with the releases of their toys and the leaks of upcoming releases. This does not appear to be time any release time, but.

Perhaps perfectly timed.

Lego School for Mutants. The Ladies Baby licensed lego set from Marvel and Lego showcases Charles Xavier's famous school. It's a multi floor mansion, much in the vein of Hogwarts, but a little bit smaller, it seems, Yeah, but just incredible. Over three thousand pieces and it's beautiful.

Very similar to the home alone house where you kind of have the different rooms. Yeah, you can build and you've got all of your X Men ninety seven faves, Iceman, Jean Gray Gambit, well Iceman actually not in X Men ninety seven, but you do have Classic Iceman, Jean Gray, Gambit, Bishop, Rogue, Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops, Magneto, Professor X.

You can make them kiss.

Beast is only available, that's what everyone loves to do with toys. Beast is only available via randomized loop boxes. I don't even know what that means because I'm thirty six years old, but.

It means that means they're That means they're getting like an insensitive side of it.

Yes, by Jean Gray's lab is going to be in there, the danger room, and there's a set to not attacking the school from outside.

It is damn it. I know, I want it so bad. It looks so great. We have a banging Lego.

Discord channel in our discord, so if you guys are into Lego, the host and kind of master and master of our discord, Heidi is a Lego expert, so feel.

Free to join there.

It is sadly three hundred and thirty dollars, but I will say comes out in November first, so timed perfectly for everyone to get into Debt at Christmas.

Lots of wonderful Easter eggs in this set. The one that I particularly liked was in Jean Gray's lab. Jean Gray has a medical lab where she is working on Wolverine in the promo photos and it appears on her computer screen that she is working on a cure for the legacy virus.

Just casual.

By the way, can I just say, like one of the most controversial Marvel storylines of all time? And they were like, yeah, let's just see what happens, Like why not?

I love that? It's like so funny.

End up Next on Disney Plus, Marvel has released Mission Demolition on Disney Plus, featuring.

A character just.

A regular guy who works for the corporation damage Control named d Man.

A character who has a very.

Interesting history in the comics, very interesting combook history, Dennis Dumfy. He basically appeared first as like what people thought was like a bootleg dead Evil because his logo was similar. In this you get to see him with more of a Wolverine inspired costume. But this is on Disney Plus

Superhero stuff, so this is a nice eyes drop.

There's gonna be some really weird, deep cut stuff in here, very interesting inclusion of d Man whoever came up with that. Good for you, And yeah, I think this is gonna be a lot of fun, So definitely check that one out.

Up next, Agatha, Yeah, okay, Agatha episode six Familiar.

By my Side. I'm gonna cry.

I'm gonna even get into it.

This is simply one of the best episodes of Marvel on Disney Plus television, Like it's one of the great Disney plus Marvel episodes.

It's awesome this episode coming out.

You know, you watch the Penguin episodes four and five. You watch Penguin episode four, which is is widely seen as like one of the best episodes of all time and then and one of the best TV episodes of the year, and you think, like, oh, I love Agatha. It's this campy, great show, Like, you know, I can't wait to see it. But you don't really think of it in the same vein as the penguin. And then they drop this episode and you remember like, oh, this

And for people like me and Jason.

This is also the introduction of a character that we've been waiting for for a very long time.

That's right. We open in a different time, a different place. We see the teen who we can now officially called Billy, but in his I guess in his body's previous incarnation as William Kaplan. It is William Kaplan's bar Mitzvah. We see him at Temple and we see him at his bar mitzvah party with his friends and his family who are just regular folks in New Jersey. The theme of the party is is magic. I love a good bar Mitzvah.

It was awesome.

Oh my god, that's amazing.

So it was like the theme is magic and they have like a palm reader and all these different kinds of like magical accouterments. And William goes into the tent and the palm reader is Lilia and du she's like past her future. He goes past and he says, but don't tell me too much, like I don't want it spoiled,

But then you can.

Tell despite how truly concerning this news is, she tries to kind of put a good this is all fun in games where I don't worry about it's a party, yeah, spin on it, basically saying, well, you know, life is a journey and you're gonna go under a lot of transformations. But then says to him just big changes, Yeah, big changes for your life. But then says to him and one is a pretty ominous note to close on Hey, enjoy your life right now. Enjoy what's happening right Stay

She immediately forgets the entire So that's true.

So we know one that Lilia did the sigil, and then two didn't know who he was during the Witch's Road trials.

Because of this.

I did not have Lilia doing the sigel.

On my list.

I love that they brought her in in the form of kind of her fake palm reader business, which she's kind of admitted was just a front for like her real life. And I love that in that moment we see the power of the sigel because she immediately doesn't even remember who he was, which.

Is it's just such great storytelling.

And then we get this big connective tissue moment that kind of hints us, right, So.

This is obviously taking place during the finale of Wana Vision some three years earlier. The party gets broken up because news breaks that the anomaly over in Westview, which is nearby town nearby is something's going on with it, So everybody starts speeding home in the car. The reality of the anomaly is clearly breaking through because you can hear pieces of Wanda's television shows on the Kaplan car radio.

Yeah, it's shrinking, kind of the implication being that the magic as the anomaly shrinks, the magic's kind of escaping out of it and influencing them.

As this is happening, William pulls the tile out of his jacket. He's looking at it, and just then they're run off the road. Their car spins into a tree. The parents are shaken but okay, but William is very.

Very badly hurt. In fact, he dies.

He is for a moment dead, but then rip William Kaplan, Rip William Kaplan. But then he comes back to life, yelling the name Tommy. Is it the same Billy? We're gonna find out that it's actually not. The police come by and Billy goes to the hospital.

At the hospital, well interesting to note, Hey, though the cop is Alice, one of the cops, So we're getting the implication here with Lilia, with Alice that probably the coven is more connected to Billy than it ever was to Agatha.

That's correct. In the hospital, we learned that Billy can read thoughts. He can hear certainly, when people are experiencing intense emotions, their thoughts breakthrough and he can hear them, and he can hear how worried his parents are. Because though his scans seem fine and the doctors tell him he can go home, he has a former amnesia. He is not himself, is not acting like himself, doesn't remember anything, doesn't remember.

Anything of his previous life.

He goes home and his dog barks at him because of again, it's not William Kaplan. He hears his parents worries again, and he blurts out like stop worrying about me, And then he says, listen, I'm fine. Maybe I just need to see my Maybe, Mom, you're right, I just need to see my room and that will shake me up.

She didn't say this.

She thought like, maybe when he sees his room, he'll be fine. We go up to the room, We see William Capslan's previous room. It was this is a room of a kid who was kind of very interested in magic, and like, yeah, uh, there's stuff from the Wizard of Oz. There's pictures Budini.

We also get like there's Alice in wonder Lamp.

Yeah, there's like it's very much posters about oh the Black Cauldron, my favorite doesn't evenybe very much nods to what has influenced the episodes that we've seen before. There's even a Goony's poster, but it actually says the Goofballs, which is very funny. But yeah, lots of Wizard of Oz stuff here, and when we get to see Billy's room in the few future, we'll get to see some more kind of referential stuff.

So he looks in the mirror and he's practicing taking on this this new personality I am willing. My name is William Kaplan, my name is William Kaplin, trying to convince himself.

I also found this moment like so heartbreaking because imagine baby Billy from Wondervision and just the absolute like wherewith all an understanding to know, like, well, I'm in this body now, so there's nothing I can do about it, Like, if I tell people I'm not me, nobody's gonna believe me, So I just have to pretend to be in this body. I just think one this is answer is one of the biggest questions that all of us have been answering, what would they do to bring Billy into the universe,

It's it's also clear that he doesn't have all of his Billy memories from that very very bizarre and just previous reality of life, right yeah, And which, by the way, like even if he could remember all of that stuff, would it even make sense because it was you know, you're in this exactly like X Reality. That's a television show that's not really real. Anyway, three years past, Billy is a goth. Now he's on a date with his boyfriend Eddie, which is very interesting.

Okay, so let me start.

Let's talk.

With his boyfriend Eddie.

Eddie, And we must mention that in the colleges Billy is it has a famous relationship with Hulkling, who whose name is Teddy.

Right, And I have to say, look, now this was a discussion in the discord. Yes, because in in England, especially though there are American versions of it, Teddy is also Kennedy, the name exactly like Edward Kennedy. You can be Teddy if you're Edward, and you can also be Teddy obviously if you're Theodore. Now in the Marvel comics, Hulkling is a Theodore. Though I think here they are giving us Eddie as an implication that they want us to have these conversations because he could be both.

We don't know very clearly they.

Have this exact conversation. The first thing is they.

Want us to all go, wait, did you say Eddie?

Did you say Eddie? And then they want us to be like, well it could.

He looks like him he VI and also as well, as we will see throughout this episode, Eddie is very open minded, which.

Makes you, well, maybe you got a little secret. Maybe you were a little secret.

Here's my prediction.

Eddie doesn't know it, but he's he's not all human exactly, and he's going to find.

At a certain point.

He doesn't know it.

I can curt, I can cut.

He doesn't know it, but there's something inside him that makes him more open minded. I think it would be fantastic casting if it is the case. If not, they're having a lot of fun with it, but yes, very fun. Also, we see Billy's like teenage sixteen year old bedroom and we get like a carry poster, we get the craft still.

A badget exactly.

You know he's got even there's even like a sow poster up there.

He's having a lot of dark, exciting memories. Also very.

Like correct for this character. We see a trans Live Matter poster in the background. There's also an Evanescence poster which was hilarious and very important. A Lorna wo tour poster who is Alice Wu's mom, who recorded the most famous version of The Witch's Road. So lots of fun stuff here, and I really like these two together. I think this is a fantastic bit of casting.

On the date, Billy can hear that Eddie wants to tell him that he loves him. They kiss, and then Billy admits to Eddie that things have not been the same since the car crash. He feels like he's a different person ever since that day. Eddie wants to here more, so they go back to his house, and at his house us up in the room, the aforementioned room. Billy lays out the evidence that he's collected over these years that he's been investigating what happened to him, and he

And he sees Run's and he's.

All right.

Also because Eddie's like, I get it's clear that the common story is that the story that's out there is this was an Avengers training accident. Yeah, but Billy is like, no, this is magic looking at yeah.

And also the video includes an ad for Jen, another of the Witches coven, so we're getting more implications that anna also very interesting is like he says that nobody who is in Westview wants to talk about it.

Now.

Billy lives in Eastview, which is like where Billy Kaplan and his family lived. And I just thought that it was an interesting note because we saw how kind of accepting all the residents of west you were of Agatha and just letting her live there in her own like tiny hex kind of compassionately.

But they're obviously like quite a close knit group.

But luckily he has found somebody on Reddit whose name, by the way, I don't know how this got through the Disney Plus kind of His name is Bonerific sixty nine.

That's his Reddit name.

That's incredible, but it's honestly very Reddit. So they go to meet this guy billion Eddie, and you know, he's in a trench coat, he's wearing a bucket hat with like a I thought.

It was going to be like Randall Wu, I was, I mean, Jimmy Wu. I was not sure who it was going to be.

I did not know who it was going to be.

And it turns out that it is survivor of Westview himself, Ralph Boner whose appearance in Wana Vision was controversial.

And its own way and hilarious.

And this this is like one of the most comic book moves in a Marvel television show yet, because this is like what they do in comics. They take a character that is like, people didn't know how to feel about it, maybe it didn't go over super weird, you didn't see it again, see that person again, and they build it into storyline of it. And here's what they also.

Bring him back like dark and gritty and like and you take a character like three D Man and you're like, okay, but now he's like the only one who can see scrolls.

You know. And this is very much in that vein where now.

Rick Joe, Yeah, sweet Ralph Boner is now like this paranoid kind of conspiracy theorist, but it's not a conspiracy. He knows what really happened in Westview and and he is gonna tell them, though he wants to know first.

Are they wearing wires?

That's right.

So they have this conversation and he Ralph doesn't really give them much.

He explains basically what.

It was like to be in the Wanda HECKX in Westview, that it was like watching yourself on TV, but the TV show is happening in your own head. It was very strange, It was very troubling.

Billy asks like, are you changed now? Do you have powers?

Basically, Ralph is does not want to talk about that, and he does not want interesting that he doesn't want to talk about doesn't want to talk about that. And Billy can hear by reading Ralph's thoughts that Ralph doesn't want to talk about Agatha Harkness. So of course Billy asks about her, and he says he did you know, Ralph blurts out, she's an ancient witch and you know, very dangerous, and then he starts to bringing which repellent.

She just show up? Now?

Ralph agrees to tell them more, but for extra money. They have to pay a little extra and so then he tells them that he had it the worst of anyone in Westview because Agatha hijacked his life, made him do all these things that he didn't want to do, made her puppet, stole his house, tank the value of the house.

She thought he thought she was his wife, right, and really he was hypuppet.

He was her familiar, yeah, exactly, and he was also the one is revealed who killed Sparky the dog, so he was really made to do awful things.

Pay attention to.

This interaction because I believe that it is important just in the way that it describes the relationship that a person under a spell might have with the person who casts the spell human in a which anyway. Billy then finds out from Ralph that Wanda had kids. Wanta Envision had kids, twins Billy who can read minds and Tommy the Speakster. This shakes Billy because again Billy doesn't have his full memories the twins disappeared. Ralph tells them Wanda is probably dead.

He's pretty sure she's dead.

Because that's probably what was reported that vision.

Word on the street is that he's with getting dissected, which we know is true. And then he says Agatha, meanwhile, is still in Westview under some kind of spell. She doesn't have powers. Billy says, great, that means she's harmless. Billy goes home. Parents want to hang out and watch Netflix, but Billy says he has to Word or Disney Plus, probably a Disney Plus or Hula.

They want to watch a body horror that's elevated, so it's elevated, Billy.

Continues to do more research. He goes upstairs and starts googling. He puts Ralph's statements into his investigative file. He examines the sigil tile that he still does not know what that is. He googles Agatha. He eventually comes up with a picture of Agatha that's like a very old like Daghea type, and then he matches that with very similar looking women throughout history.

You know when you find people are always finding like portraits of Keanu Reeves right throughout history. It's that kind of thing. But this time it's just the trick of the eye. This time she really has been around in the whole time.

As he's listening to Alice's mom's recording of the Witch's Road, he begins to piece together different facts about AGA's life. That she murdered her coven, that she's the only survivor of the Witch's Road, and some other stuff that I forget. Billy then makes a decision that he's going to go

Yeah, and missus the detective funny to see it from his perspective because it's very interesting. Well, I will say here, so he we. He goes, he breaks into the house.

He's gonna get her broach, the famous brooch that was the thing that basically let a lot of us know that she was even gonna be Agatha Harkness. Interestingly, we see Agatha arguing with who we know is Rio, but we don't see Rio at any point in this.

It looks like Agatha is talking to herself.

He rummages for the personal item, he gets that, he manages to get the the brooch and does and does a spell and he's chasing and interestingly, we then get to see one of the funniest scenes in the.

MCU so far.

Will go as far to say that this is like Avengers eating Schwama level as I think will go down kind.

Of as iconic when Billy.

When we see the interrogation from Billy's perspective, it is so funny because.

He she does not know what she's talking about.

He is just in her house and it is so hilariou and I think they played it exactly right where they they give us a little more of what he was going through before we get to the part where he realized what was going on and started to unravel her spell, which is when she shows him the dead bodies that are actually just like flowers and kind of flower beds from around Westvieed. But this was so funny, and yeah, he is just like what are you talking about?

Right?

So these are wonderful moments actually where Catherine Hahn, you can tell that a lot of this was improvised, because oh yes, like there's moments where her like it's clear that that they.

Are about to break, like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like it's like watching SNL when they're doing a good skit and everyone's like trying really hard not to laugh.

There is definitely a lot of that.

Also, I have to say, I maybe I was just slow and feel free to tell me that in the discord, but like I didn't realize that Billy was the one who broke Agatha out of being in one to spell. I just assumed it was Rio or I assumed there was some kind of you know, revelation, you know, when she threw the pictures on the table. But I thought it was really cool to see it from this perspective and see that it was actually Billy who kind of broke her.

Out, and that shows his power.

I think it was unclear before this, but yeah, it shows that he does have some juice.

So and then.

Right after Billy chance to spell releases her, she kind of like sees her house with new eyes and then she asks who he is and he now we see from the other side that first he says, I'm William Kaplan. She doesn't buy it. She comes in es, who are you really? He says, Billy Maximov.

And that's what is banned with the sigil, right.

We see it as him saying it, but from her perspective, she can't hear it. Yeah, so from her, we're watching it from his perspective. We go to the road in the in the continueuation of the story from the previous episode, Agatha crawls out of the swamp with a rise.

She just handily had it so funny. She's like, you are no killing man. This mud swamp.

She crawls up to Billy Billy's looking at the tile. He's turning it over his hand. He crushes it.

It's gone.

He doesn't need it anymore, it doesn't bind him anymore. Agatha confronts him. Uh, she doesn't buy this whole. I'm disinterested in being a witch. I'm just here for a specific kind of personal reason. I don't want power.

Uh.

And in fact, we know that previously he had said I just need power. That's why he was wanted to go with her on the Witch's Road, So we know that's not the true. That's not true. And in fact, she says, and whether this is true or not, we can debate that she always suspected who he was. She always kind of had an inkling that he was one of the sons, particularly Billy Masmof. She says, it's nice to see him again. She uses his name. He realizes that he can say his name in it, she can

Uh.

Agatha is like kind.

Of lording this over him, like you are you you're pretending not a witch, You're not a survivor, but which is a survivors and sometimes they have to do stuff like this. Uh, and she's like, I don't even remember how many people I've killed. Agatha then wants to know, like where'd you get this fresh body? Like this is very interesting, Like where did you that? You know, like, you don't feel bad about what you had to do. You saw your opportunity to escape and to survive, and you did it.

And surviving by any means necessary is what a witch does.

That's interesting because because this tells us I think that, uh, there's no Mephisto involvement, that Billy, as the anomaly was shrinking, decided that he wanted to live and did this.

Yeah yeah, yeah, jumped into Also, I would put it out there. This is like, I think it's worth saying. Is this something that Wanda did in her final moment?

Did she kind of send you?

I don't think so.

The boys.

Was it just old Billy who just felt that power to live and it was just in this moment that was the crash he found the body and it was kind of fateful.

I think it was all Billy. I think it was all Billy. I don't think Wanda had anything to do with it.

So he.

Tries to use his power and make a show of force, but he can't. He says, whatever, it's still there, and I don't need your help walking the road, Agatha wonders, it's like, what do you want from the road?

What do you we max him off from those?

She goes through the things, the people that could possibly be Mom obviously not want to know vision no, but maybe it's the brother Toby, and he's like Tommy, Yes, it's Tommy, very clear, right, that's what he wants.

I think that's the most emotional choice.

And then she walks off with Adam saying, last one there isn't at the end of the road is a nice person, and Billy goes off after her, saying I'm not that nice.

So wow, here's my.

This is here's my theory of what's happened. It's a usual suspects where the person that you think is the weak person is actually the villain the hero, but like the main drive.

The mast also the person who is potentially puppeteering the story because even whether he knows it not, because the truth is Jen Lilia Alice, we.

All know that Sharon with your car Sharon who with a colleague.

They had connections to Billy before this, and Agatha had a connection to Billy maxim Off because she had been his baby, saying as she had kind of hung out with him in this messed up hex of Westview.

So yes, Billy's definitely the main here.

I feel personally that they are still giving Agatha her time to shine, and I think Catherine.

And Joe Locke are so good together here.

So I'm very interested to see where we go next three episodes, but only two weeks to go, because the next episode is going to play episode seven by itself on Wednesday night as usual, but then on the thirtieth of October, the day before Halloween, we will get the final two episodes together, which I think is very exciting.

I did not see them bringing back Evan Peters.

I thought he was fantastic, So I love that and I think it definitely opens up the space for more big cameos in the final two episodes. Biggest question is we have not had any casting news about Tommy, So do you think we're gonna get Tommy in the last three episodes.

I think we have to write or or at least we get direction of or at least we get a direction of where Tommy is.

Maybe it was just a little costing they were able to keep quiet because like everyone was asking about Billy and Joe Lock so obviously evokes Billy in the comics.

So I want to return to what Ralph the way Ralph described his life under the power of Agatha Harkness, because I think that that's what's happening to her, and it's Billy doing it. I think everything that she's experiencing is I think Billy. I think it's very possible that Billy is pulling all of these strings. The question that is, why does he need her? Probably because she's the only one who's ever walked the road, so he needs someone to like meet shield him as they go all the

I think that's very interesting and also does make sense when you look back at like when he was in the house and everyone else was downstairs singing the song to open up the Witch's Road, he was upstairs and that's.

When the Salem seven came.

You know, he could be the one who is kind of whose magic is powerful enough that they're following, or who let them know that Agatha was trying to go on the road.

Exist are they even real things? Or are they just something that he can kind of create? Or you know what I did see this was in discord. I'm sorry, I don't know who said it.

But I can't recall right now, but it was a really good theory where it was like, isn't you know is Billy technically like skin walking by being in someone else's dead body? So are these the kind of like haunted souls who are chasing him? Kind of like what we saw in Multiverse of Madness where the souls of the damned followed, uh, you know doctor Strange when he was in zombie Stranger's body. Obviously slightly different situation, but

This episode is also called Familiar by thy Side, which does bring up the question of hoops Is hoops familiar? Let's bring in super producer Joel Monique, because I know you have some familiar thoughts. If you are there, I am here, by.

God's good, is going to try to come in just away?

You're familiar, Aaron, if you want.

To come in.

Corners and questions. Okay, first, before we get to familiar I wanted to Rosie the is it Wanda question? I have the same thought because when Leah's writing on that tile, does it seem as if she has one of her dissociative moments for a moment when.

She comes back and is like I I think so yeah.

And she's like, hey, kidd of like the now it's all you have moment, I'm like, is this Agatha channeling through?

Can she do that?

We've seen her dream work but only into herself.

I was I was wondering, wait, you mean Wanda.

Yeah, I was actually wondering if what it was was that Lilian knew the car crash was going to happen and that he was going to be She.

Looked at the lifeline and knew that he was going to die as the lifeline said, you're dying soon.

So also you're gonna come back. I think she had a vision of both. So I definitely was interested. I think it would be even though we've seen Wanda go full kind of evil. I support her rights and wrongs, but obviously in multiverse madness, a lot of people weren't happy that version of Wanda. I don't think that they will do it where she made the car crash happen,

And this is a manifestation of that.

But I like Jason's Reid where it gives Billy the full agency.

I think it's Billy the way Billy says, I'm not that nice, Like, yes, okay, he's he is.

He is pretended to be somebody's son for three years.

Yeah, like he stole somebody's body. He did what he needed to do, just he's not a real person in this reality, but he wanted to keep living despite the fact that he's not from here. He may not even be real, yeah, I think of real, but he wanted to keep going and so he did what he had to do.

He's not quote a nice show.

Okay, so that brings me to my familiar stuff. Okay, you could have easily called this episode all that's good is bad. I was going through the quotes and I was like, I cant geting tripped out because forever. Okay, So Agatha has been calling Billy her familiar. Now the initial like set of the tone of the show was like, Okay, she's joking. She's trying to hide Billy from the other witches. She's trying to figure out what his real deal is

Even factory ban yeah plays a little bit.

If you think the little girls.

Being a witch, that's her familiar for sure. So there's a French philosopher Peer Arafard who defined a familiar as the spirit is like a double the alter ego of an individual. It does not look like the individual concerned. Even though it may have an independent life of its own, it remains closely linked to the individual. The familiar spirit can be an animal, but it doesn't have to be.

I just I think that that in itself, that description, I think that's I would say that Agatha is almost certainly Billy's familiar because if you think about this, she essentially raised him when he was a kid. She was there as like a supportive part indeed of his early life.

Jason, what do you think?

Yeah, I think that that's what it is.

I think all of this is again, I think much like his mom, who created a very complex and immersive reality without actually knowing that she was actually doing that. I think Billy has set this mission up in a complete and very comprehensive and complex way with Agatha as his dupe, and she doesn't realize it, and he may not even fully realize all of the things he's done.

You know, Jen, bringing in Jen, bringing in Alice, bringing in Sharon.

That clearly was I think that was like spur of the moment he met these people, ran into them, or saw them or encountered them through the Internet, realizing that they had some kind of innate a magical history, which history, and so he brought them into this. But is that a conscious decision? Of his I don't think so. I think so, I think that he is doing I think he's done this. And I think that Agatha, you know, up until she absorbed Alice's power, she was juiceless.

She was.

She did not have it.

She's in her house thinking she's another person. We see in the interrogation from Billy's perspective that this thing she thought she was doing the whole time, this this interrogation, that she thought she was running, she.

Was not in control of it.

And he was like, so, I think the one who's doing this, he's the one that's doing this.

Yeah, And him freeing her also puts them in a situation where she is essentially in his debt, even if she doesn't know it, which is another way of trapping a familiar. I also think this is very interesting narratively because historically in real witch trials, whether it was in Pendle in England or in Salem specifically in Pendul, they would really often accuse men who were supportive of the witches or involved in their life or brothers, they.

Would accuse them of being human familiars.

And essentially saying that they were a human who was able to do things that so I like the inversion here that potentially Billy is the witch and Agatha could be the familiar.

We should also say that, yeah, yeah, go for it.

When Lily had that disassociative moment, be you know, she reads Billy's palm, I was about to tell them stuff, and then she says the tower room, she like kind of planks out. You know, there's lots of articles out today about the terror verse means it means inevitable change, it means upheaval, and the way to say that is chaos. She's saying chaos magic. Also, she is a wonder Yeah.

Also think about this.

When Wonder dies, she's at the top of Mount Wondergore, and then when it's flattened, the tower is reversed, there's no Wonder Gore Rosie.

Yes, So I definitely.

Think she was foreseeing. She was foreseeing that, she was foreseeing it, and like you say, Jason, it's all about that chaos magic. Also, I want to put out just before we go, I want to put out a final theory that someone in the discord said. Again, I'm sorry, guys, I need to be better at catching who did this, but I am shouting you out. Somebody in the discord, said, is Billy's spell book that he has?

And I love this theory so much.

Is this the last remaining copy of The Dark Cold without it knowing it's the Dark Cold?

Like?

Is he able to channel some of those spells, some of that chaos magic into.

This little book? And is that why it's kind of so precious and important without the.

First time that it's printed and not a journal that he's been writing in, like I think we thought before and I found that really, I'm like, where did you get this book?

Was it just laying around?

Was that?

Like?

I don't think we see the initial connection of him and the book? How we found it? And I was like, I.

Know, it's just like it's just there's a lot.

Of coincidence in this episode, which makes me think there could be a third party in effect at play here, because coincidence is wild. So we'll see.

Wait, Aaron, did you have big, the Big, the Big, the big broomstone smelling guy with the pitchfork?

N Billy the.

Books sometimes in his or put the book in his path, sometimes.

Back in time and placing books like that.

Also, I just want to say, guys, what what do you guys make of the fact that we never see Rio.

Like we are before we leave before the familiar thing. Oh yeah, please. One thing I just want to ask if if anyone has time to do a rewatch listeners, hosts, producers, whatever, in specifically in Undreds and Dragons, the familiar acts of its own accord, but it has to obey your commands. So I'm thinking back to every time Billy has given a command to Agatha from as simple as help me carry missus Hart through the oven, uh, stop get away

All of these things she did.

She has acted of her own accord in some other instances, but every time I can remember her giving him a command or him giving her a command.

She has followed it.

That's unavable.

I don't know if there are other things out there in the show that I missed, but every time he said something to her like that, she So that's that kind of bolsters that they're beautiful.

All of which is to say I is dead at the end of this right, She's She's fucking gone.

She has gone on.

Oh he puts that back in the hecks because he's gonna find I don't know, I'm interested to see.

I think because listen, you're not gonna get You're not gonna get Tommy back without a price, right, Like someone's gotta go when you get to the end, there's gotta be a coin that you pay to get.

The thing that you want.

And it's just no one better to fucking hand over than than an evil witch who tried to take down your mom also failed.

Just for the hope of the family and the people who love Agatha and and the queer people who adore her, I would say, if that's the case, don't worry because.

Like you know, she can come back.

Like yes, I'm dead, but with my awesome heart.

I was gonna say, I was gonna say the implications and rumors and theories around who Reoverdal really are could align with that in a way that would still give us a happy, ish quick answer your question.

You brought it up. We have to talk about it. The real thing. She's not there when Billy is talking to Agatha. If you go watch the first episode, she's definitely in the scene technically behind the glass, so not in the room with Agatha. Then I went back and I was like, Okay, is it a case of nobody's been talking to her? But no, everyone's been reacting when they brought her up from the ground, they saw her.

Maybe?

Are you? Are you connecting with her, maybe not physically, but more mentally on a spiritual like I found you, but I don't have to physically be there to have found you. I can talk to you without having to physically be present, because even when Billy's looking inside the house, we don't see her. It's not like she hid when Billy came in or something.

She's just not there exactly. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, I get that's arguing with that, but we don't see her. I think that everyone has said episode seven is their favorite episode, which is what we're going into, so I can expect that we may get some answers or hints specifically about Rio and the kind of who is really in charge in that next episode, which I absolutely cannot wait for because the shows. Yeah, I do believe that episode seven is potentially the one where they're in costume or where they're in a.

More kind of mental institute. But we are, we are yet we still have screeners.

Well, we're still waiting on. Here's two things that we're definitely gonna get Jen's backstory and yes and lily is backstory.

We're getting those.

And you know, we've there's casting for young Lily, so one hundred percent we're.

Getting and we've gotten to see hints of her. It's probably going to be some kind of Spanish inquisitions that story.

So we know that that's happening definitely in the next two episodes.

Also today Friday, October eighteenth, they released the pop version of the Witch's Road sung by jap in He's Breakfast. It's great, incredible, very interesting take on it.

I love Japanese.

Also, we're going to get some pop scene with that.

I so wow.

So they did not hire Michelle Zeyer to do a version of the song.

My guess is the finale version of The Witch's Road will be sung by Broadway legend Patya. Everyone's everyone's very sad about they haven't had her singing a lot.

I'm guessing that will be a finale version, but yes, thank you guys. I love this show. I love talking about it. Thank you both for joining us.

Appreciate you.

Also shout out to Joe Locke his singing during the too Yeah, well done.

He's amazing.

Coming up next on Extra Vision, the extras are back to discuss Arcane Thursday, Rosie and I asked the question, is nineteen eighty for the best.

Year at Heart?

I think we've agree it's good, but it's not the best.

Good, but it's not the best.

Listen to Friday episode, we're reacting to the final installment of The Venom The Last Dance.

Oh Ben.

Monday, we've got a recap of Penguin one oh six.

That's it for this episode's extull achuned.

By x Ray.

Vision is hosted by Jason Kensumsion and Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi

Our discolled moderata