Episode 1651 - Mike Birbiglia

Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Marin. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. If you're just getting on board here, welcome. I know some people are curious. They've been reading about it.

It's sort of still amazing to me, but not really, just how uh we all create our own little bubbles and and I know for a fact that most people don't know who I am. Most people in the world. But that's okay. It's really okay. I I I'd I'd rather be a a little below the radar. I'd I like to just cruise at my own altitude and uh, you know, I don't wanna be something everybody looks up in the sky and says, Oh shit.

Look at that thing. No, I just kinda wanna zip by in my own lane, my own frequency, and my own uh uh altitude and uh and live the life. But uh if you are just uh checking in. Uh for the first time, welcome. You've got a lot of catching up to do. It's only about sixteen hundred and and uh and change episodes. But they're all pretty good. Uh I can vouch for'em'cause I was there when they happened.

I hope you're well. I hope that thing cleared up and I hope that uh you know everything was okay with that meeting you had and I also hope that uh you don't hurt yourself because uh you're you're not paying attention to the road right now. Wake up Hey, hey, don't ride the brake.

I was in a car the other day and the guy was riding the brake. There is nothing I cannot stand more than that. It makes me furious. I'm sure there's deeper issues. that are are are probably being brought up. But the riding the brake thing, I can't I can't take it. I d I don't know how to ride the brake in anything. Well, that's not true. I I'd maybe not ride the brake, but I'll y I'll I'll you know, I'll hang out in the lower gear sometimes. So look you guys, uh I know a lot of you are

watching and reading and hearing and freaking out about uh what is really martial law here in some parts of uh the Los Angeles area. Uh this is uh an authoritarian shit show. of uh political theater put on by our uh uh sociopathic huckster clown king to kind of flex his dick. and show us what the future holds. But it is happening. Uh but I do want you to know that even people that know better that when it's sort of um

you know, presented as the the state of California is burning. The state of California is in chaos. The State of California is crumbling. Just know that the state of California is fucking huge. I mean, is it what is it? Is it the biggest state? Or is Texas? Is it the second biggest state? I mean, there is shit going down and it's horrible shit.

There are peaceful protests that have been instigated uh into uh something maybe more than that uh by the Marine presence, by the National Guard presence. The cops here were doing fine, but I'm telling you this is a flex. And this is the country we were living in now. And anybody who watches this shit that watches this horrible reality of innocent people being ripped out of their homes with no due process and taken away.

and watches clips of that and thinks, yeah, this is the way America should be, you're a shitty person. You're just a shitty person. And there's a lot more shitty people than I ever imagined. You know, I used to think people were fundamentally or innately decent or or cared about other people. But something's broken the brains of many. There's a a mania, there's a doubling down, there's a uh uh honoring one's worst and most primitive instincts.

In relation to other human beings, there's a a loss of decency, a loss of tolerance, a loss of basic love and respect. And it's just being fanned. These flames are being fanned and this is the shitshell we live in. I'm grateful to the people that stood up and got out there and tried to have a peaceful protest like we're allowed to do, to to speak our minds and show what we believe in as Americans. Uh and it takes a tremendous amount of courage to do that.

But I I just want you to know that not unlike most other states, probably all other states California is a huge place with lots of different kinds of people in it, lots of good people, lots of iffy people, lots of shitty people, lots of people that are struggling, but it's massive. and this idea that this state is crumbling

Because that's how it's being contextualized or presented to you on your phone or in the clips you're watching is not true. There are people standing up, there are people out in the streets, there are people uh engaging in their democratic right to a peaceful protest. There are people like me talking on microphones, and there are people just kind of, you know, herding horses and, you know, doing some farming and, you know, trying to have a life.

But I I don't I don't think you should be blind to it. But just know that uh this is political theater on behalf of an authoritarian government in what's becoming more and more a fascist culture in order to terrify and frighten uh the average person. And it's probably working.

That said, um, so I got Mike Burbiglia on the show. And look, I go way back with this guy and uh I've I've I've talked about our history together on episode ninety four, then he was on again for episode three hundred when he was the uh interviewer of me. I was in his film Sleepwalk with me. He's also the director of Don't Think Twice. He's had four Netflix specials, including his latest called The Good Life. And silly problems between me and him. They're not even problems, they're just feelings.

Uh persist mostly in me. And look, I I I know it's me and it's one of these weird kind of things I have to deconstruct and and live in and figure out why these feelings exist and and what I need to act on, probably none. And y you know, why I

I have this thing with him, I don't know. But he keeps coming back, folks. He keeps coming back because, you know, I think on some level uh we like each other, on another level he's got a special coming out, so so when we get when we get to it, we we get on it. You know what I mean?

I would say it's better than it has been in the past. The documentary, Are We Good, is screening at the Tribeca Film Festival in New York City. Come see it this Saturday, june fourteenth at five P.M. That's at the OKX. Theater on Chamber Street. I'll be doing a QA with Tracy Letts after the screening. Then Sunday, June 15th at 5 30 P.M., it's a screening at the Village East on 2nd Avenue and 12th Street.

Also, there are now four episodes of Stick on Apple T V Plus. New episodes premiere every Wednesday. I gotta watch that new one. I'm watching them as they happen with you. It's a good show. Me and Owen are d I think we're doing a good everyone in the cast is doing a a great job. A great job. So look, I do want to bring to your attention something um to an article that came out, uh sort of it's an epic article.

It's on uh Defector, defector.com. And the article is called There Will Never Be Another WTF with Mark Marin. It's by a woman named Diana Moskowitz. Um, and it's a beautiful, beautiful article. And look, I'm not tooting my own horn, but you know, when you read about yourself and your your achievements and what you do, like me and Brendan and And you know, there is insights there that I couldn't have'cause I I barely know, you know, how many people listen to this. I don't

check numbers. I don't know. I just do these talks and, you know, I'll look at social media sometimes, but I I'm never it's been years and years since I've worried about who's taking it in or what they think about it necessarily. But this woman has had a long relationship with this show and she's a great writer and her assessment of it and her experience with it was just beautiful. I got choked up at the end.

and she really got something. A and it's something there's a whole section in this piece that I wouldn't have never really thought of about whatever it is I do in my monologues, my particular tone, my particular sense of myself, but but more than that, my my particular position or emotional disposition as a man in a a society where where, you know, men are thought of in a certain way. And much of that is toxic and much of it is predictable.

But she was able to really kind of uh you know, oddly uh compare my emotional output and how I handle my tone on this show as, you know, fundamentally the domain of of of women writers and presenters. in terms of what I talk about and and how open I am about my uh particular problems or vulnerabilities or or cats or whatever. And I and I was uh very moved by that. Not uh not insulted or or or felt it was off. I it it made perfect sense. Yes, I I uh I do all I can to be a a good woman.

I I got a a serious yin and yang thing going on there, but both the the yin and the yang is uh in terms of male female are pretty well represented. But she also took in y you know, the way she framed, you know, her favorite interviews, which were, you know, outliers or or ones that I don't hear much with uh Sir Ian McKellen and Sir Patrick Stewart and why she liked them and how they represented the show and also just sort of assessing my relationship uh with Brendan, who ha has been my

uh my production partner and business partner from day one in a very e equal relationship, fifty fifty, all the way down the line. And it's always been our our game. It's always been our thing. We've never sold it out. You know, we've done ads, but we've always maintained control and this is the only thing we do. And the way she framed it is being not unlike a a punk rock band who w who you love but you know eventually will will not be a band anymore was

kind of beautiful and very touching. I recommend that you read this thing, not because again that I'm tooting my own horn, but I thought it was a a a kind of brilliant and deep and personal and honest and on the money. assessment of what Brendan and I have done here over the last sixteen years.

Okay, so look, um yeah, again, as we move through these last few months. Not a eulogy, an appreciation of you, an appreciation of the appreciation, and uh also just my life. Cats are okay, a little little nervous, they seem to know too much when I'm preparing to travel. So, look. Mike Brabiglia is here. I think we had a relatively uh pleasant interaction. We you know, we got past whatever dumb stuff I have maintained.

in terms of tension between us and got to talk about jokes and his new special and about life and death. It was good. His new Netflix special, The Good Life, is streaming now, and this is me talking to Mike. of a bit and and how it can be disassembled. Yes.

Well you're cutting a bit from your special you're shooting. I I well yeah, I it wasn't supposed to be in there. I'd made the decision not to do it. Yeah because it was always provocative and it's a difficult situation. And what what ultimately And, you know, I talked to Brendan, I talked to my director, and I talked to my girlfriend just about the it's it's not so much there's no cowardice in not doing it. All that I'm saving myself from is the bit being cut up

And then me being trolled for the rest of my life. No, I that that's that's when whenever people ask me, Can you not say anything anymore, which is a real trope now. Yeah. It's like you can't say anymore. Okay. You have to have an answer for that. You can accept

People can cut it up into a ten second version, a three second version, a sixty second version. And so then it's completely out of your hands. That's right. Then like you're saying if people can use it against you for the rest of the time. So then as it when you're releasing a comedy special, you gotta go like, okay, how could they use this?

But like w do you like you like I know w exactly what my concern is because it's political. But like for you, what would what would an example of the thing that you're talking about? Well I have that g I have that joke in the special you know uh Basically eight year olds are insufferable. Oh yeah. I really I think like this makes me really not understand pedophilia. Right.

Yeah, it's a that's a that's a tricky joke. It's a tricky joke, but it's like a good joke. Sure. You know what I mean? Like I'm like, No, no, I stand behind this joke. This is a r This is a a a a provocative, insane joke, but I'm on the right side of it. Sure. Well that's the thing is that you know, if you

Especially if you've been doing it as long as we have, and you you work on these jokes and you know when you're doing the jokes that like this is a this is a button pusher in a way. It's not even a button pusher. What it is, it's a take on something that puts you in the center of it. and and then people have to, you know, kind of uh go through the shocking element of it. Yeah. That and that was and that's actually the fun of the special. Right. Is like I like I have a joke about my dad. I go

The stroke my dad had a stroke. It's been devastating, but I will say it has calmed him down. And it's like Yeah, I used to do stuff about my dad his manic depression and dementia. Like he's not depressed anymore. Right. No, no, it's crazy. I mean, I just heard you on the phone with your dad. Yeah. It's it's actually very sweet. Like you say, I love you. I've I've never had that. Oh really?

We don't say I love you, we say take care. Yeah, yeah. No, I I you know, they get they soften up and my dad was always uh he they would say I love you, but I didn't believe it. Right. So Uh but uh but in terms of those jokes. Is that that is the great thrill of doing a dark joke. Is that like you manage to transcend the darkness. I mean that is the trick of the whole thing. Is you have this horrendous thing at the core of it and then you can lift it up

To to I and it's not even shed light on it, but to disarm it through comedy, right? That's the thing we yeah, that and that's the thing I was like we should talk about that because y Bleak to Dark does that and and I think Good Life does that. Yeah, it takes work. It's a lot of work.

Because you have to you have to find the tone. It's so hard. And then like it really it's different. It's interesting because you know, you craft jokes Yeah, well I we're I think we're similar in how we go about putting stuff together. Um, I think you were actually the the person that made me do callbacks and it was driven by resentment.

And perfect.'Cause'cause I it's true though. I don't I don't know. I never told you that. Like I was wa I watched one of your older specials. It was probably before it was probably before more or later or something, and I saw the way you structured them. And at that point I I wasn't really looking for through lines and they w there wasn't really a thread connecting them together. And then I watched you and I'm like, Oh, it's a trick. It's callback.

I can fucking do that. And and I out of spite, yeah you uh you you move me forward creatively. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's like I don't think of it as callbacks, I think of it as uh as uh forward momentum. So in other words, like instead of and then and then and then it's so then so then so then. So that you have to sometimes you have to remind people

Oh yeah, that was m that was my girlfriend in college. So it's a callback technically in standup comedy terms, but actually you're reminding them of the story that you're in. Yeah, but but the thing that it the illusion it creates. is uh a story and that that threads the whole thing together. But this your special, your new one. Is is basically a story. It's a story, yeah. Yeah. But like when you don't necessarily have a through line for the whole set.

If you can drop a reference to an earlier bit later on, there's a connection that kinda holds the whole thing together. Yeah. It's it's it's an illusion though, because it's not a story, but it's just sort of like, No, I remember that from the other joke. Yeah. And I I t I try to find them all the time now. That's cool. But the thrill I'm glad I've taught you about comedy. Yeah, I appreciate it. Well, I mean, I th I've never denied your abilities. That's nice.

I've never denied your abilities. Yeah. You can use that as a blurb. I'm really good at blurbs. I d I tried to be so diplomatic with Nick Crow about his new movie that He kept saying that's a good uh uh tag what is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And they were all kinda horrible. Like it feels complete. Oh my god. Like that that kind of stuff. Wow. But yeah, it's interesting. Like yeah, your the thing we're talking about of like of like turning something sad like you did with Lynn.

uh into something funny. I think that's the job. I actually think that's the job of being a comic. Making people laugh is baseline, right? Yeah. Making people laugh at something they're sad about. That's that's the real stuff. Well it's essential or or or angry about or whatever. Like I think I think on one for me, comedy will work to

Look at things differently. I think that's another thing. Yeah. Outside the sadness is to sort of like turn the lens. Like I never thought about it like that. Yeah. But but the elevation to actually provide some sort of humanity and relief to things that are really not discussed. Like I think the whole thing is.

Like, you know, approaching grief, which is something everybody deals with. Nobody likes to talk about it and nobody wants it in their life. But it's a it's an inevitable, right? It's it's going to happen. Sure. So to get into that zone and to disarm it and to open up a conversation about it, I think is definitely proactive. And it's good and it is it should be a purpose of comedy. I think that Like Pryor used to do that.

Like i in the sense of y you know, talking about hi you know, volunteering your insane life. Yeah. That's right. And struggle, you know, to to put it out for the world. Because like whatever he did about race, his personal upbringing was Fucking nuts. Hor horrible. Yeah. But like but grew up in a brothel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All that's Piori only. But you know, but all the things he got out of it were amazing. It's a it's the determination of the human spirit. It's important. Agree.

But but the uh whole not being able to say anything, it's interesting because I feel that like w w what I talked about on on some interview with politics is that people are going to self center, that the power of terror and propaganda uh you know, makes people afraid to talk. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So I think that's the bigger concern of a certain type of uh um thinking that is more dangerous and like you can't say that. If you're saying that to yourself, that to me is the real threat.

Yeah, and that's out there. Total totally. Yeah, yeah. With your with your fucking neighbor. People at work. So you know, they can't even talk about the world'cause they don't know if it's like you know, they're gonna open up some yeah fucking shit box of uh of anger on in someone in their life. Yeah.

With this with this special Um And to like I was gonna tell you I had this realization about uh, you know, some some of our attention uh that's all driven by me. Is that for m for me,'cause I have it with a couple of other people. Is that like I think I'm a pretty decent guy with people, but if somebody like annoys me for whatever reason, it's not their problem. Eventually I I get I get stuck in something and then I'll get you know, I'll say some shitty stuff.

But I realized and I was talking'cause I wanna make a joke out of it, uh that w if you're that kind of person where you kinda blow up at somebody or or say something hurtful, as soon as you do that with me, I'm like, oh fuck, whatever. Right. Why'd I do that? Right. And and then it for me it's over.

But whatever you've done to the other person, who knows how long that'll go on. Oh of course. So there's that idea that like, you know, I'm a pretty good guy, but sometimes I blow up but but right after I'm fine. You know you know, i as long as I hurt your feelings for a second. And then I ca I'm I'm good. That's like that's like my dad. But I think that's like you're a little bit like my dad. Like it's a ra but isn't that rageaholic behavior?

I used to raise it and it's it i it's more precise than that. I I think y you know what happens is for me is I feel like that I have a a a justified problem with somebody. But the so I guess it's Rachel Holic in the sense that like, well yeah, but you can choose not to, you know Yeah, act on it. Yeah. Or or don't deal with that person. Yeah, yeah. Y you know, it's not your job to to dump your problems with like what are they gonna do? Like, let me fix that for you. Right. That's right.

I think it's it's it has to do with anger and insecurity, but rage is rage. Yeah, it's funny like w you know I like my last special, the old man in the pool. The the ending of it is this thing where I t yeah, I talk a lot about how my dad and I never said I love you. Yeah. And or I've never said I love you. I don't I think never, I think actually. And at the a at the end of the special I go,'cause the s the special's all about death and

And all this thematically about death and at the end of it I go, what I want to say to my parents and then it cuts it black. Yeah. You know, which is what happens. We don't choose we don't choose that our life is in the first act or the second act or the third act. It just ends when it ends. Yeah. And like, I feel like that was true.

you know, with Lynn Shelton where it's like where it's like she died. I love Lynn Shelton. I you know, I considered her a friend and she I was in one of her movies and I loved you. She was one of the great people. Yeah. And and like You don't you don't think she's gonna fu what the fuck? Like when I heard she died. Like you you can't b believe it. And it's like and then you think back like, oh, what was my last interaction with her? My last interaction was

was she did we did a movie with you. She asked me to host the Q and A. And you said Mark doesn't like me. Mark doesn't like me. I don't want to do it. I would do anything for you, Lynn, but Mark doesn't like me. I don't want it just feels toxic, we're it you know. In hindsight, I should have just gone, Lynn wants this. I love Lynn. I'm gonna put this behind Lincoln. I'm just gonna fuck it. I know how to deal with Mark.

Yeah, so anyway. But that that's the thing is like, you know, when you whenever Whenever y you know, you've expressed resentment towards me or for whatever reason that I I want to put it to rest and I try to put it to rest and I've spent my whole life uh in relationship with you.

Yeah. Uh trying to put it to rest. And when we do hang out, it's perfectly fine. We're you know, we're both, you know, uh y you know, real comics and we talk about real stuff and everything is good. I I really think it's really just petty uh it it started in petty jealousy and then it just becomes there just there's certain people

that um y you know, I I completely think you're uh a great comic and I think you're a nice guy. It but there's just certain things about like I can name all three of the people Well I know you have it with John Stewart. Well that's different. Oh okay. No, it it would be it it's probably you and Pete. Pete Holmes, who I love. Right. And and probably, you know, Edelman's on the list so that he he's a new entry. Well yeah, well see like I I could argue, but what

But what what my vibe what my feelings are, because I'm sort of a volatile like uh emotional uh you know Rageaholic. I'm not a rageaholic. I'm not you you you're dispelling that? No, only because I know what that looks like with me. I know I have been an abusive angry person. Yeah. I think with Do you feel like that's behind you? The abusive and raging part? Yes. Yeah. If I can't manage those kind of emotions, I I will detach from the person. I know it's my problem.

uh but you know, I don't have to have the certain people in my life. Yeah. I don't think I I rage at you. I don't rage at my girlfriend. I don't really rage anymore. Y you know, there it's just there's certain things that trigger a certain resentment in me.

And I'll and I'll get mean for a few minutes but I'm not you know, I'm not gonna like I used to scream. Oh wow. So there's no there's none of that. So if I'm if you if you're putting me on the spectrum of rage a holic, I'm very like I'm way right just at the It's just low ending. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. Um But in terms of like, you know, stepping up and doing things and di and doing things with Lynn and and making those moments.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It it it actually hearkened to like something I don't know, I've been working on on myself in the last ten years which is like, you know, just realizing like, oh yeah, it could just go away. Yeah. Like it's can you can just die at any moment. How old are you? Forty six. Yeah. Like I'm sixty one. Yeah. Yeah I I think about it all the time.

Yeah. And then there's the other thing that I can flick with is it could go at any time, and then there's the other part of it which is maybe at my hand. Oh my god. That's a funny joke you have in your blink to dark with a You're not gonna kill yourself with a bat. Yeah. Yeah, it took so long to to to to orchestrate that bit. Yeah. To figure out the physicality of it. Yeah. And then how many how many times I should hit myself in the head.

You know when a joke comes to you and you're like, oh my God. Oh yeah. I'm gonna kill myself. Totally. I had that with it's funny with this special, people have said that to me about uh my urban air bit. Oh yeah, I wish I knew more about that place. Oh, okay, like trampoline parks and how they're so fucking dangerous and crazy. And uh

I've had a bunch of comics be like, I can't believe you got to that first. Yeah. Like you know what I mean? You hit something and you just go, like, wait, no one's done this? Great. No one's touched trampoline parks for kids. Fantastic.

Oh yeah, I did research. Yeah. Well, I mean I done I'd been to so many of these fucking birthday parties. So I'd been there multiple times. Well well, you realize that the pool of comics is gonna be dads who talk about their kids. That's right. So that limits it. Yeah, that limits it. Yeah.

No, I I can't stand that. I had I had an issue with uh I I I told him I wouldn't talk about it. But I you know, and now that we're talking about anger, I got I got angry yesterday at someone we both know for a very specific reason. And the The issue with jokes being out there forever on your Instagram and everywhere else is that there are people that don't know that they've glommed it.

Right. Sure. And it's just out there. And and now there's a whole generation of comics that watched me when they were kids. Yeah. And so all of a sudden I see one of my jokes surface. Yeah. Partially or or all of it. And I have to be like, Well, you know You own yeah, that's your joke, but you haven't done it in fifteen years. Right. But now this guy's doing it. So what what do I do?

What do you do? You know, if Yeah, I had someone come up to me at the cellar recently and they're like, Oh I'm a huge fan. Yeah. You know, they're a comic. Yeah. Yeah, I came up on your stuff or whatever, and then I looked on their Instagram and I saw like one of my jokes. Yeah. It was like one of my chip like one of their early jokes. Yeah. And it was almost word for word and I said to Jen I said to my wife, Jenny, I go like

That's the flow of this whole thing. At a certain point you become the peop the person who people came up on. Yeah. And even I don't I'm not saying that guy stole a joke. But it's in there. It's in the brain. But that's it. But like so like how do you it's it's it's not even the act of forgiving that.

And and we understand it'cause I've seen it over and over again. Of course. And there's some there are some areas of observation that are pretty commonplace. Yeah. Uh and it it's like, but if you have a unique twist on it

that you know is yours. Yeah. But some jokes are like, you know, there were some things you talk about and that's one of the reasons why I decided to talk about myself exclusively, is that no one can take that. Like if you're looking at the world, then you're at risk. That's what Lucian Hol that's what Lucian Hold, my you know, who used to run the comic trip taught taught me. Oh really? He was one of the first people I was like uh probably in my early twenties and he

I was talking do an observational comedy about the Teletubbies, Mr T and A Team all set. All the big topics. And then he goes, uh he goes, if you talk about yourself, no one can steal your jokes. Yeah. And I started talking about myself. Yeah, is a great piece of advice. The best. I don't really have

But then you know what happens when you get older and you do a few specials though? You tap yourself out. You're like the well of a sudden the well's all filled up. Well Sidera said that on my podcast. He goes, uh you go

You you at when you're starting writing, you have the most stories'cause you have your whole life. But you're not that good at telling stories. Right. So then as you go as your life goes on, you have less stories, but you're way better at telling the stories. Sure. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. But do you find like what'd you how'd you handle that that guy doing your joke? I was actually fine with it. I w it was so weird.

I didn't do nothing. No, I didn't do anything. Hm. No, I don't I I d i to me it's like I don't think of it as um Uh things are for m th things for me, I'm like, this is great. I'm doing great. Okay. In co not in life, in comedy. Yeah. I mean like I have the struggles that everyone has of being alive. But your stories. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I but my comedy it's like I I write these shows, they're really specific.

and people show up live to see them and then I'm able to make comedy specials from them. That's amazing. Yeah. Like what else could you want? You're grateful. I'm I am grateful. That's good. So I don't when I see someone crib a joke or maybe they don't realize they crib a joke, I go, Yeah Well I I get here's what happened in the two cases for me.

is someone brought it to my attention that there was this kid doing a joke I did literally in nineteen eighty nine. That's really funny. And, you know, it's out there. You know, and this kid, you know, uh maybe he could have seen it when I was when he was a kid. I don't know. And it was the same setup. And I you know, someone sent me a clip of him doing it from Instagram. So I DM'd him, I said, look I did that joke.

But I don't care. But I'm just telling you because it it might be brought to your attention. Mhm. So like if someone's gonna be like, Yeah, it's a Mark Marin joke or whatever, that might happen, but I'm okay with it. Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. So I I think I handled that well. Yeah. But the the other thing w the yesterday I did not handle well. Even and it was sort of the same thing. But You know If somebody has a pattern of of taking jokes from different people, that becomes a more difficult

situation. It's funny, like I remember when you had Robin Williams on years ago. And that was a great conversation. Yeah. And you talked to him about it. Yeah. And it was very clear that he had not uh in my opinion, that he had not intended to lift jokes, but that he in some ways was a sponge of colours. I saw I saw it how it happened. Yeah. Because I I did it he saw me at the Throckmarton once. And I did this bit. It was a big bit about the

the demon, you know, the sober demon bit. I it was like, you know, it used to be like, Yeah, let's go out get some blows, some wit pussy and some booze and then it's like, How about some ice cream? So and he uh Yeah, he came up to me after the show, he goes, Ooh, that demon is like he starts riffing on my premise. Yeah. And he's riffing on it. I'm like, that's how it happens. Yeah, yeah, sure. That's like one step away from I you know it's mine. No, I get it.

Yeah, I mean I guess there's nothing we can do about it. Yeah, I remember one time Mulaney when he was writing on SNL texted me Hey, I did you ever do the polar bear drinking Coca Cola as a bit on an album? Yeah. It was a tag he had written for me. On tour with me like years before. Oh, interesting. I was like, Yeah, it's on Two Drink Mike and it's on this special, whatever. He's like, All right, won't do it. But he had written it.

He had ridden it. Right. So like I said to him, you can use it if you want. You know what I mean? I don't care. But like I do think like there is a degree where we're d we're doing all these brain exercises as comedians and trying to put out more and more and more stuff to fig to figure out what's funny to us. And you do come across the same ideas. Of course. Yeah. Parallel thinking's real. And like when I did this special I had this one joke, it's a pretty much a one liner, but I had a sense

That not that I took it from somebody, but that someone else was doing the line. Yeah, out there. Yeah. So I was like, fuck it and I I didn't do it. Yeah. And y and then uh it's funny'cause uh Rock gave me a tag for a joke that really worked well. Mhm. And then I d I I ended it was part of the joke that I d I took out of the special. So it uh that's gone. Mulaney had a great tag in the my special The Good Life, which is uh My wife is a poet, I'm a comedian. Together we're a sculptor.

Such a b simple joke. That's a good joke. Isn't it great? It kills. And does it like when you when someone gives you a tag and it really works well, don't you ever get that moment where you're like, fuck, why didn't I Totally. How is that how is he just so good at that? Totally. Yeah. But that's what when next time you're in New York you gotta come on working it out. My podcast we just work out jokes. But I think you'd like it because I think you love jokes.

Well I do. Yeah, I I do. And then but they become jokes. You know that like the when I did this special I had a a really simple everyone can love joke. It's a cat joke. And uh and I had a tag, but it wasn't quite right and I knew it. It worked good enough. The the pr the it has it basically has two punchlines. There's the turn and that gets the laugh, but then there's another beat there that was required to kind of close it up.

and the thing I had there was okay. But literally three days before the special,

I was on stage and it was delivered to me. And that's how that's the the way I work. That's what makes it interesting. That's nice. I don't know where it comes from. It's from the gods. Yeah. Oh most of my stuff is. That's like the Bob Dylan uh a documentary Scorsese did years ago where he goes, I didn't write these songs, God wrote these songs And it's like it's kind of nuts through a certain lens, but through a certain other lens you're like, Yeah

I guess where does it come from? I know it's specifically with me because I work through talking. I don't write it. So and I believe that it's like if you're a funny person and you put yourself in a position where you have to be funny, yeah. W which is a comic's job, but literally corner yourself like I've got a funny enough idea that'll get a few laughs. But I'm hoping that by doing it it'll evolve. And I where the hell does that come from? Yeah, you're yeah. Let's try it!

I mean it comes from your brain in the moment, but it didn't come from your brain sitting there going, mm. Well it's fight or flight meets jokes. That's right. Yeah. So we're doing your podcast now. Do you come to New York a lot? I'm gonna be there. I saw you there at the cellar. I was there to shoot the special. Oh, is that what it was? No. Oh, you were there a couple weeks ago. Yeah, I saw you and then before that I saw you at the cellar. Yeah. And uh I'll be there for Tribeca.

In a couple of weeks. Oh, that's cool. You in a movie? Yeah, there's a documentary about me. Oh that's cool. Yeah, it's all right. I mean it's good. It's a little much from it's a lot of me. It's it's almost too much me for me. But it it it was Uh talks about the Lynn and the COVID and building an act after that. And then it became more expansive. Yeah. You can come see it. Yeah. I'll come see it. If you can do it. What do you mean if I can do it?

Well, I don't know how much you are that interested in me. I am interested in you.

So the one thing I didn't know about watching this special and I don't know why I didn't know it, I probably knew it because we've done you've done this show like more than anybody for a guy that who doesn't get along with me or I don't get along with. Um But like we grew up with doctor dads. Yeah. And it's a very specific weird thing. Yeah. And Conan did too. What kind of doctor was his dad? You know, I not I'm not sure. My dad's a neuro was a is a retired neurologist.

That's a big one. It's a he it's no pun intended, it's a heady profession. It really is like It's it's it's a smart group of people. Oh yeah. My dad was uh more of the uh the kind of uh I guess the working class doctor in a way. He was an orthopedic surgeon, so it's like hammers and saws, screws, yeah, yeah. R cutting people open.

Chopping away. Totally. Yeah. It's weird, like only as I get older and I'm I'm I feel like you've probably had this with your dad, although I did hear you say I love you to your dad a second ago, so that's nice. But I do feel like there is a degree of the emotional withholding is not unrelated to the job. where he's compartmentalizing what is really extreme. I mean he's dealing at work, my dad. Yeah.

People with Parkinson's. Oh yeah. People with you know, MS. Yeah, oh yeah. Really brain disorders is a fucking hell. Yeah. And so then he comes home And he's just trying to sit there and read his war novels and meanwhile like I'm projecting on him that he's this mythological creature of of uh perfection in my life. Yeah. And it's like He's a good thing. Yeah. He's saving lives and and being a good dad and and being a good doctor. And like

You know, it's funny, people would come up to me when I was a kid, they go, Your dad's a great doctor and I go, Oh, thanks you know and then he'd be like, No, for real. Like I've gone to a lot of doctors, he's a really special you know, and it's like

I just didn't see that side of my dad. Like it's just not what I saw. Right. And like I had a lot of anger about that for a lot of years. And it's I talk about this in the special, but it was really only in the last few years where I got to understand like Like you gotta ask questions. You gotta be open to that these people are flawed, that your parents are flawed and just ask questions. Oh, and also you don't know them. Right.

You fucking just don't know them. I do a bit in my special about that. about like you you don't know these people. Yeah, totally. I mean they had whole lives before you, they had lives outside of you. That's right. And they have uh they have people in their lives. You don't fucking know them. Yeah. Well my joke about dementia, which is pretty funny Uh, I say like, you know, if you can let go of who they were and just sort of deal with what is, there's a lot to be gained. And I say, uh

Like you know, the filter goes away eventually. And this the statute of limitations on what they should and shouldn't tell their kid that's gone. So that's very funny. So if you have unresolved issues or questions, just Reach into that bingo cage of memories and see see if you can pull out the missing piece that'll make you a whole person. That's right.

That's a great that's a great one. The you know, I talked to my mom and dad yesterday'cause they haven't seen the special. Special dropped on Monday. He's in rough shape. I mean he He's like a tank. His constitution is 84. Yeah, my dad's eighty-six. It's up there. It's up there. And it's like, He had a stroke you know, fifteen months ago. It was really extreme. He's almost died about six or seven times. You know, where where we took him like we he was at the hospital last week.

wasn't eating, was you know, was throwing up. All this awful stuff. Awful. And so I was talking to them yesterday and they they haven't seen the special, you know. And But then their neighbors started telling them. special and it's beautiful and it's a love letter. Vince to you and but they're like, but it's also challenging. You know what I mean? Like so they kinda they had a my parents had a vibe of what the special was yesterday when I was on the phone. Uhhuh. And I go, um

I go Vince I call my comparance Vince and MJ. You do? Yeah. I go, Vince, I think you would uh I think you'll like it, but it is challenging, you know. And uh it's about your str some of it's about your stroke and and and my dad on speakerphone goes. I don't like the personal stuff. Yeah. And I go, Vince, don't watch it. I go, you can't you can't choose what your child's gift is. Oh, that's interesting. And he goes, that's true. And he laughed.

And I was like a for me, that was peace. Yeah. Oh, that's good. 'Cause my dad, you know, when I wrote about him in my book, he now he gets a kick out of it. But I I went to the m mats with my dad. Like I I pushed him as far as he could go. Yeah. And you know, I saw what was at the core of him. Which which oddly is fuck you.

Oh interesting. Yeah. There's hostility. Yeah. Yeah. Uh or just something. It's uh I think that's at the core of every narcissistic personality. Sure.'Cause they can't totally reveal themselves to themselves. Right. So you're gonna you're gonna get the fuck you. They can't reveal themselves to themselves.

Well, because I I think they're not open to themselves about who they are at their core, which is a narcissist. If you push them to go there, they they're they're gonna hold out. Right. It's gonna come at you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you know, look, you know uh I you know, I as people get older, and I think you I don't know if you're seeing it'cause it's not necessarily in the special, is that, you know, they they are half your brain.

Yes. And you know, whatever their shortcomings or flaws were, you know, th that wired you. Yeah. Half of it at least. For sure. So at s at some point you have to reckon with the good parts and the bad parts about your dad that you possess. Right. And then you have to say like, all right, well this, you know, these are good things.

from him. Yeah. And these are the bad things. And a lot of times those bad things will kind of be a struggle and they'll take you down and they're built to fuck you. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if you had that same experience. Oh but anyway my dad when I wrote about him in my book he he was furious and it was graphic and it was you know and you know, he was like um very angry and and i i I didn't do the same thing you did w which was m more uh

It was a better way to phrase it. I said, Well look, it's my story too. This is my story. Yeah. That like I own this story, my side of it, yeah as much as you do, and you're part of my story. Now you can choose and I'm not sure if I'm if I was as careful as I could have been it out of respect. Yeah. But I fundamentally I didn't respect him at that point.

So we had this fight on the phone and I said, you know, well he was worried that like some of the stuff I said would have implications for him professionally. Yeah. And that, you know, you know, his family was mad and this or that. I'm like What do you want? You you want money? Sure. Yeah. And he goes, Yeah. And I go, how much? He goes, a hundred thousand dollars. Yeah. And I said, I'll give you five. That's good. Have you done that on stage?

It's probably that's funny. Yeah, yeah. It's a good bit. Yeah, I Mulaney saw me do some shit shit about my mother that never made a special, you know. Uh but like but as they get older, you know, a and he's softened and the love you thing Like when I told my mom and they're not together that I think, you know, dad's got the beginning of dementia, she said, How can you tell?

That's funny. Because he was always the same. Well he's detached. Yeah, yeah. Like that was always the joke. I get that. Like he'd be at dinner but he wouldn't be there. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I don't I don't know what that was. It was a joke at the table. Like we'd be talking and and he'd be like off in space. Yeah. I was the youngest of four. Oh yeah. And so I and I was the oops baby. And and so I don't think he wanted to be a dad much anymore.

Like my the way my sisters describe it is like they would go on trips to Boston and they'd buy raincoats and they'd they'd have a night a day out on the town. I didn't get shit. Yeah. I got nothing. Like I was just alone. I was off, you know, what they call now like a free range kid. Like I was just out with my fr friends. Yeah. Like I was kind of I don't know. Like I It was done. But at the same time, like as I get older, I just go like

you know, oh my dad was a tough dad, but also like compared to what? Yeah. He didn't beat the shit out of me. Right. You know what I mean? Like there's people who have a real heart. Yeah sure, but that but detachment and em emotional neglect

you know, not as traumatizing in events as physical abuse, but in the big picture is is pretty mindfucking. True. You know, like I I think that the you're comparing trauma and the effects of it You know, some th some trauma is easily identified, the other stuff is a little more insidious.

I know what you mean. I just feel like it was never Sure, you had money, you had good you know, you had good uh you had everything. Yes, yes, yes. There were things like that where you know, my dad doesn't have you know, he'll die. when he dies, t today, tomorrow and a year, yeah is like

He'll die with no money. He spent all his money on educating his kids. Really? Yeah, for real. Like he always That's funny,'cause my dad's broke too. Yeah, he He really valued that. Like he'cause he grew up in Bushwick. i in a Italian neighborhood in the forties. Yeah. And he had he had nothing. And then he got a scholarship to a Catholic school, Xavier in in high school in

Manhattan. I send with my dad, yeah. Really? Well he grew up with you know, his his mom was a teacher. Yeah. His d his dad was like a bookkeeper. Yeah. And he was a valedictorian. And my my dad's dad my dad's dad worked in the subway tunnels. Yeah. He was an electrician. He'd w he'd go into those dark tunnels after they dynamite the

tunnels and then he'd he'd rig wires into darkness. Yeah, wow. It's crazy. Yeah. I mean so the idea that my dad ended up being like a doctor and had a law degree and all this stuff, it's bananas. Yeah. And so I don't I weirdly like at this age, I don't begrudge him any of that stuff because he wasn't

When my dad would rage, it would be like I say, you know, in the show, he'd be like, Where are my goddamn keys? you know and it'd be like, We gotta find dad's keys. Yeah, I know that one, yeah. It gave me that, like I was on edge. The whole the whole family has to snap into it. Yeah. Where's that ski hat? Oh here we go. Yeah, and so but it wasn't at me. It was like it wasn't like God damn you Mike. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. It it wasn't at me.

But I don't know. But it definitely scrambled the family into action. And then you never knew what you were gonna be dealing with when he got home. Oh yeah. It's like dealing with somebody with anger issues or or or or self centered kind of the megamaniacal thing of a doctor in general.

is that, you know, it's as erratic as an alcoholic. Yeah, you're right. You know what I mean? And my dad was, you know, like a bipolar, I guess, but but you just didn't know and you barely saw him. So you wanted to engage one way or the other. And it was always like before family trips or something. Where the fuck is you know Yeah, sure. So you always enter these family experiences just afraid. Well it's funny, like I you know, I think

The way I started writing this special two years ago was like, What can I teach my daughter? My daughter's eight. She's starting to ask questions that are hard. That's the way I started. That's right. Yeah. And about a year into it, dad had a stroke. I was like, Okay, now it's about how do I relate to my dad, how do I relate to my daughter? Yeah. But in but you know

This way that I look at my dad as like this mythological, all knowing f creature. That's me now, right? Yeah. For her. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like I hope. Right. Well no, but you know you know that that's what it is. Yeah, yeah. At least for a period of time. And then and so I had to explain jokes to her the other day.'Cause I was like, This special's gonna come out, millions of people are gonna see it. And I talk about you and mom and grandma and grandpa and like

So the way that jo I write jokes is like there's something real that's true and then there's something silly and then something real and then something silly. So I explained to her like the ballet joke. I'm like, we went to your ballet recital and mom and I are crying and crying'cause she doesn't have it, you know.

And then I was like, No, we're crying and we're hugging her and and I go, You were so fantastic and and and then you said, Dad, you would say I was fantastic even if I wasn't fantastic and I was like, You were so much better at logic than you are at ballet and I go like So that's so it's a joke. Does she see it? Uhhuh. She took it pretty well. She took it pretty well. She goes I like the true true jokes better and I go, Well the good thing is the special ends on true.

Yeah. I go, it's it's silly, true, silly, true, but it ends on true. Yeah. And I think that that's the important part. And I think the audience knows which parts are silly and which parts are true. Right. And so I'm hoping that that reads. She's ten. It's like I'm hoping that reads, but I'm also like, you know, I'm concerned. Well, concerned in the sense that like at at that at this age, when you showed her that joke.

Did did it hurt her feelings? Yeah, I think it I think she didn't love it, but I also think like she loves the joke where, for example, She goes uh someone comes up to me on the street and g w when I'm with her

And goes, You're a great your dad's a great comedian. She's like, All right. And then I go, Una, what do you think when people say stuff like that? And she goes, It's a waste of my time. And I go, That's the meanest thing anon's ever said to me, and I know Bill Burr. She's like, She loves that. Yeah. Because she's like

'Cause she's she gets the joke. She is the j she tells the joke. And she has a waste of my time. She gets to do a shot at you. She takes a shot at me and like she and and Ern and you know, truly she really does love that and gets why. What's funny about that? Well I guess the question is that does it is there the possibility that implants in her that like I am not good enough

Well, that's the concern. But I think fortunately I wouldn't have done it about like for example like she's really good at swimming. Yeah. And like So she gave up that way. Oh, that's good. You know what I mean? Like it's like it's like shoe seven. Like it doesn't really feel present. Sure, sure. Like I wouldn't have done it about a thing that she really cares about now. So I didn't do anything about swimming or whatever.

But I'm I'm le I'm not doing anything about her for her teenage years. I'm literally uh and I told her that. I go, I'm not talking about you for the next ten years because you have your own journey and growth. And like this is your story to tell. Well that's the tricky thing. And that's the th the lesson with my dad and also the lessons w that I've done jokes about women I've been involved with. Yeah. Is that when they say to you like I could you maybe

Go easy on this. Yeah, yeah. And then you you know, i depending on what's more important to you, which is a real question, you know, comedy or this. Yeah, sure. You know, you you kind of navigate that. But, you know, to what and and also I had a girlfriend who I wrote about and she said her thing was it's like, Well, I don't get a public rebuttal. That's right.

So that's another thing you gotta take in consideration. That taught me a lot. Oh completely. And because we want you know, we're selfish. We're like, but this is my story. You're in it, but it's my story. And they're like, Yeah, but I don't agree with it. Right, sure. So then what?

Yeah. Which is why I'm taking some time off from autobiographical storytelling. Are you? Because it is loaded. Yeah, no, I'm taking a few years off from it and I'm I'm writing right the thing I'm writing right now is um is my next movie that I'm gonna direct. Yeah. It'll be another small indie. Yeah. Like Sleepwalk With Me or Don't Think Twice. It's actually a lot like Don't Think Twice. It's it's about a group of friends and it's um it's at a wedding and it's it's just that kind of

Um so you can deal g you can live in other people. That's right. A little bit. That's right. Yeah. And and and and it's ne and no one's one for one. So like don't think twice, for example. A lot of times people will be like, This is about Mike doing improv. It's like, No, it's not. Yeah. I wasn't really an improviser. Right. I did it in college or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like It was funny'cause yeah, you're did you ever see Don't think twice?

I uh about the sketch group. Yeah. Yeah. The improv group. Yeah. Kiki Michael Key and Gillian Jacobs. Yeah, I think so. I thought you would like it because it is about jealousy. It's about like what happens when when someone gets, you know, in this case like a fake Saren Live. Yeah. Uh Keegan Michael Key got and then everyone else doesn't. It's about like what happens in life when we realize it's not fair. Yeah. That's actually one of the best things my mom told me when I was a kid.

She go I w I remember saying to my mom, It's not fair someone got something. She goes, Nothing's fair. Life isn't fair. I think that's one of the best things you can teach a kid. Oh totally. Nothing's fair. Yeah, uh but but also the other side of it is Is that we feel that because we feel we deserve something.

But we don't really know if we're right for the job or what they're looking for. You're talking about like the S and L scenario or any scenario. It's like yeah, like some guy gets elevated because of you and you think like you deserve that.

But perhaps the person that was giving that job to somebody had a reason. Oh a hundred percent. You know, and then you could say like, well that's fucked up. It's like, yeah, but it doesn't matter. So that's the unfairness, but it's not a meritocracy issue. Not at all. It's funny like doing that movie cured me of jealousy.'Cause I fucking wrote this movie for two years, three years. I directed it, I edited it, like it just was and then at that at a certain point I was like

These characters are fucking insufferable. Well they need to get over themselves. This has not because you g the same thing you're saying has nothing to do with that. Yeah. In a certain way. Like who gets what has kind of nothing to do with you. And everybody the jealousy is driven by your own insecurities and what you think you're, you know, entitled to based on, you know, your sense of s you know, uh justice or self righteousness that could be f you might be talentless. Yeah.

You might not deserve that job at all, but you can't see that. Yeah. So like and it's hard to learn that lesson. Yeah. You know, like to just go like, Well, it it wasn't for me. Totally. Yeah, it wasn't my opportunity to get. Yeah. It's that and that's that takes that takes some real humility. Because like if you're if you're ambitious and you want something and you know you believe you deserve it, how can you like when someone else gets it go like uh well he's the probably the better choice.

Totally. And it's interesting I was watching I was on a show the other day with this guy, Arthur Brooks. He's like a Harvard professor who wrote this book on like number one bestseller on happiness. Oh, good. And he has this really basic, super smart guy. Yeah. Really basic thing that I'm like, I'm gonna teach my daughter this, which is

When something challenging happens write down two things and one of them is uh write down um what happened and how it made you feel and the second thing is write down what you learned and then go back to it six months later.

And usually the first thing you actually don't care about and the second thing you learned. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Well that kinda happens when you get older where you you you think like, Well, how did I give so much of a fuck about that? It's crazy. Like it consumed me for years. Oh for sure. And then it's like not even there anymore? It's not even that it was stupid. It's just like it was kind of like nothing. Right. Well, you know what's funny about the you know, you're sixty one? Yes, yeah.

Um Chris Rock said to me recently, he goes, You get to sixty, because he's sixty also, I think. He goes, You get to sixty. It's like there's not many Of us comics left. Uh-huh. Like who are doing it. Yes. You know, and who aren't huge. Like the guys who like can you know go out just on a whim and make fifty million dollars, they seem to never go away. But the guy but the guys who

who like, you know, like what happened to that guy? I don't know. No, there's a lot of that. Totally. There's a lot of that even now in my forties. Yeah. Where the what happened to the that guy. Just gone. I don't know. Yeah. It's a weird field in that way. And a lot of people die. I mean that's the thing that's painful.

is like Geraldo died, Hedberg died. I mean like in their prime. Yeah, Patrice died. I mean like so many people died. Well yeah, but like that's not different than any other world. I don't know. I don't know. I I I I've grown to argue this sort of like well comics are all fucked up or there's more drugs and alcohol and like, really? More than cops? More than firemen? Yeah. More than plumbers. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. G show me the numbers.

Yeah, yeah. I do want to see the numbers. And also show me the ratio of comics versus how many working comics there are versus the ones that died young. I think tragically i is something. Uh, but that happens too. Yeah. But yeah, but yeah, people go and then there are those comics where you're like, Whatever happened to that guy? And then out of nowhere you'll be like, Oh, he's working down the street. Yeah. Totally. That's w that's insane. Also sometimes people get really good later.

Oh yeah. Like you're like you're well, you're a good example. Yeah. You were good in the nineties, you're great now. I was bet I'm better now. I think you're better now. Well I wasn't formed, I was just angry. I was a rage aholic. Yeah, you're Rachel Holic. And I used to think like, Well, this is what everybody wants. But you know, true rage versus funny rage, different things.

True rage versus funny rage. Okay, sure. Yeah, if you're really an angry person and you don't have control of it, uh that that's that's not great. You know, like you know, even if you watch old Hicks stuff, I mean, his anger was you know, utterly alienating. Totally justified, but not not entertaining for most people. Right, right, right. Whereas somebody like Burr

is a a cranky, angry fuck. But, you know, he's got a populist slant on it and he's got a slant on, you know, the dynamic between him and his wife. And he's softening up a little bit, but that the the funny cranky guy or the funny angry guy is a rare f bird. Yeah. And the ones that are good at it it's great. That's right. Yeah. But yeah, but honest rage, not not great. Yeah, I get that. But no, I feel like I am better now. I think you're better now. Thanks.

I think you've become less of a caricature of yourself. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think like one of the things that annoyed me early on was that you were kind of leaning on this character. Yeah. That was part of you. Our characters are always part of us.

And but it was a it it didn't have a lot of depth necessarily. Yeah, I think like when we're starting out, yeah, we're emulating the people we admire. I mean I remember even talking to Geraldo one time I was opening for him and he goes He goes, dude, he goes when I was starting out he's a tell.

Yeah, he goes I was doing a tell. Totally. He goes, I have T V spots where I'm doing a tell and it pains me so much. Yeah. You know, just because he admi he admired a tell. There's a fucking generation of people who admired a tell. There was a lot of a tells around. There's a lot of a tells running around. And then I would say that there are people who are influenced by him, but I would say Sam Morrell. It's definitely an italian.

And then like and then there was tons of headbergs for a while. That was a little more specific and it was always annoying.'Cause you know, a tele like you what you learn from a tele is like incredible joke structure. Oh amazing. And he said by the way, talk about someone who's who's better. I see him when I see him at the cellar He's on fire. He's always been on fire. I mean, it's just nice one nice different brain. Yeah, yeah. He's it's like uh he it's like a abacus. It's like a uh a uh uh

uh an abacus that's on fire yeah in his brain all the time. A joke abacus. That's right. It's constantly putting it together. That's what it is. But but Hedberg was a disposition. So when people took Hedberg they had to do his Yeah. The uh a kind of An escalator can never be broken. It can only become stairs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But uh but yeah, no but see I think you've in the last few specials

Okay, I guess probably since sweepwalk with me, you kind of came into yourself more. Thanks, man. Yeah. I think it's like I think everyone's doing that though, right? I think I think the thing that I have in common with Geraldo is that Uh it was filmed early. You know what I mean? Like I got a few things on TV and then so people can see me as a collection of my influences before I find myself. Yeah. Or found myself.

Yeah, I wonder if that's I find that I'm more aware of my influences now and I when I watch old stuff of mine i i it's weird because it's not I never I I I'm always kind of myself. Except when in my first year or two. Yeah. Then I was I had an attitude that wasn't really mine. Yeah. But like most of the time I'm like, Well, you know, y you're not there yet, but it yeah, I can see me in it. Yeah. And I don't really know exactly who my influences are

They happen in in moments. You know, like I know if I do like like there've been beats where I'm like, Oh, that's just like a Gaffigan beat. Oh interesting. I've been I've become more clear about my homages or where like I track where they come from when I see them. Like that bit at the end of End Times Fun, which was this or you know, operatic bit where you know Mike Pence is boiling Jesus. I knew in my mind like this is

to honor uh Hicks. Yeah, yeah. Like sure.'Cause it's structurally not exactly what I do anymore, but there was a time where that kind of that type of anger flow. Yeah. And I'm like, this is for him. That's nice. Only I know it, but Yeah. But why? Who do you think your influence were? Well earlier it was Hedberg. Yeah. I had the like um

Boom boom boom boom. Yeah. But where does like'cause I I talked to this guy and I and I and I I don't I put it together before. But where does Andy Blitz factor in? With me? Yeah. Oh, I never saw Andy Blitz. Okay. Other than like every now and then I'd uh Luna Lounge, I'd run into him. But I no, I didn't we just look alike. No, there's like he does a thing. He's it's a lot slower than you. But I I think that like, you know, the kind of like Well, you know, like y there's a there was a thing.

But you never in the middle of the year. No, I think he's funny, but I don't know his work at all. Oh, you didn't absorb it? No, no. He was a writer at Conan, was I was an intern maybe. Yeah. Like I think we crossed over in a certain way. And we I think we have a similar talking style. That's m that's funny. And we have a similar like hairline, we've got a look similar.

But yeah. No, no. So is Hedberg mostly? Hedberg I would say was my biggest influence. I uh Stephen Wright was a huge influence. Really? That was the first one. So Stephen Wright was I saw when I was sixteen at the Cape Cod Melody tent. Mm. My brother Joe took me and it it changed my life. But that's but but that's not neither of those are really the style of jokes you do. No. And so then and then what happened was I did the moth and

Two thousand three. Oh right. Yeah. And I was like and it was it was interesting. You talk about like finding yourself. It's like At the moth, you have to be yourself. Yeah, I felt I that's where I w what Luna was for me. Yeah. And then the podcast dude. There's no version of the moth where you see someone's story and it's not them. Yeah. Like they they direct you, they drama target. It was the first time where like I truly had like

Catherine Burns was my director and she kind of taught me how to teach tell a eight minutes story. And it was Oh, so that introduced you a long form. Yeah. And that and then I did that. And then I and that introduced me to Ivory Glass, this American Life. And then he did a bunch of stories with me and and he really taught me

Just how to tell story. Like and and then how to, you know, find the Bob and Tom stuff too, right? Yeah, Bob and Tom was huge because they let me do my Secret Public Journal, which was like this th piece I wrote, which is like a travelog, and I would call in And so yeah, there were a lot of there were a lot of people

That moved you towards long form. Long form, yeah. And also like I I when I was in college, I wanted to be a screenwriter. I just wanted to write movies and plays. I didn't even want to be a comic. I just w I just wanted that. Yeah. And then I got out of college and I was like, oh that's th no one wants that job. No no one has that job. No one's offering that job. It's a weird thing when you realize from your college naivete that like that like no one's waiting for you.

Oh yeah, no, if you decide this world it's all on you. Oh yeah. To push it out there. So let me ask you, like earlier on we talked about uh you know, the the parts of your father that Or you're infected with. Yeah. You don't really address that in the in the show. It's interesting. It's sort of Yeah. And I'm not sure I do either.

Yeah.'Cause like it's this whole other zone of possibility. Yeah, sometimes my sometimes m uh my brother Joe calls me Vince Junior. Really? Yeah. In what situations? I think because of my intensity. Yeah. You know, I I I think that the thing that's confusing to people sometimes when they know me versus they see me on stage. Yeah. Is that on stage I seem relaxed and off stage I'm pretty intent.

I'm not mean, but I'm intense. Yeah, I think maybe that was one of the the reasons I I I sort of was resentful. Yeah. I'm like this guy's not being honest. But I can explain why. Okay. It actually makes sense. 'Cause I've thought about a lot. Ira Ira Glass brought it up on my podcast recently where he's like he's like, In real life you're super intense and on stage you're really relaxed and I go, Ira, it's because on stage I'm relaxed. Yeah.

And also because it makes sense. I'm in charge. Right, you have complete control. Yeah, complete control. So in my life I'm like fucking flipping out of control and I'm like, ah I gotta hold on to something. Yeah. And then I'm intense. Yeah. On stage, it's just me talking. If it there's a heckler, I I have a line. I make a I can handle it. I've been doing this a long time. So it's like on stage, I fucking I'm pretty happy. Yeah, because you you decide.

Yeah, I thought I find this sometimes like at parties you go people go like, Oh comedians like I met this comedian at party, it wasn't that funny or whatever. Yeah, but we we suck at parties. Yeah. Comedians suck at parties because It's a bunch of people talking to each other. Yeah. And I'm like, no, no, shut the fuck up. I have the best story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not about me enough. Yeah. But not even that, it's like it's like the it's not about Uh

You know, someone would be like, You amateurs. Yeah, you amateurs. It's like it's like oh I d I one time I sleepwalk through a second story window and they're like, Oh let me tell you my sleepwalk. No mine's better. No, it's gonna be better. I've worked on it for years. Yeah, exactly. No, that's interesting. So 'Cause I feel that too, but it wasn't always that way. I mean I think

I got comfortable on stage where you you have that moment where you realize like, Oh, I live up here. Yeah, yeah, I live up here. And you know, when you're about to go on stage, you you're that at some point you're like, I'm not nervous at all. That's why I always tell young comics. I go like get on stage anywhere anyone will let you be on stage. I I uh you know, you were in sleepwalk with me. You played like the mentor comic in sleepwalk with me, but it's like it's like

I performed I hosted a lip sync contest at a college. I did open mics. I did coffee houses. I would show up at bars when I was in college in D C where it was an open mic where they didn't want comedy. Yeah. And I would sign up and then I'd fucking go up. Yeah. People would be what? Yeah.

Like that's how you get okay. Yeah, overcoming those fears. Yeah. And like but God at the beginning you're just like for weeks you're like, I gotta do five minutes. Oh yeah. For weeks. Oh yeah. Fucking freaking out. But what what so intensity, but are you an angry guy? I don't think Okay. I don't know. You didn't get that from your dad? You don't bo you don't blast off? I don't no, no. That was the thing that when I was a kid

I was like, I'm never gonna do that. I remember my dad flying off the handle. I was like, I'm never gonna do that. I never yell. You gotta ask like You know, all the people who work on the producers of my podcast and my wife and my daughter like I do not yell. It is it is baked into me. It's possible it's all staying inside and feeding into a tumor that's in ri forming in real time, but but it's doesn't come out. Yeah, I used to do I used to do a bit about that. Like, you know, like

uh like when you sti stifle anger where you're like God And then it just it goes inside you and it creates tumors with your parents' faces on them. Oh my god, that's fucking funny. It's funny because I had a joke about my anger going inside and then forming into tumors until I die. And Ira was like, Take that joke out. And I go, Why? And he goes, I don't think it's

True. I think it's like an old wives tale. Like I think it's like it's like Oh, he had a problem with the science of the joke. Yeah, with the science of the joke. I was like, All right. I did take it out though.

Yeah. It's funny how similar that joke. That's a good parallel development example. Sure. You and I basically had the same joke. So yours I it's funnier. The pictures of your family. Yeah, I d I took it one step into jokeland. Well no mine mine had a joke too. I just forget what it was. But it was like Yeah, you had a funny one years ago that I loved which was

The chain reaction of anger. Oh this guy cuts you off and this and this and all it all somehow ends up in the Middle East. That joke's great. That's like one of my first joke. That's cla that's a classic joke. Yeah, yeah. It's good. Why are you going uh take it as a compliment, thank you. Oh thank you. You're welcome. No, I like the joke, but like it's funny that there are people like to this day remember that joke.

It's not I I don't know if I even did it on Letterman or maybe I did it on Conan. Maybe I did on my first Letterman. Well you were like a stand up comic when stand up comedy was in mono before it was in stereo. Sure. You know, like you like when there was ten comics. Yeah, yeah. And then yeah oh I was in there was ten comics at the top

And then twenty in the middle and then fifty at the bottom. And I was somewhere in in the lower tiers, but yeah, I was around. I don't think you there was still only a hundred guys. Yeah, yeah, totally. You know. Now there's uh like a thousand. I don't even know how many. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah.

So do you d do you find yourself what about your mom? What'd you get from her? Well like I said, like my mom was like nothing's fair, you know. Well that, yeah. She had this practical she has a really good. Very Catholic. Yeah. So she and and when I you know, I talk in the special but I went to see the Pope last year. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. A bunch of comedians. It was like Rock and Colbert and Coleman. That was kinda weird, wasn't it? It was interesting.

But like you how'd that group get chosen? Pope Francis. I think I wasn't expecting to be on that list. I have no resentment about that. Oh good. Good, good. Um the I think that it was some version of Colbert. And the the Vatican. Yeah. Like emailing back and forth a group of people's names. That's that's how I understand it. Because he's a very out Catholic. He's a very out Catholic. Yeah, yeah.

And uh So the post says that guy, he's on board. Yeah, but my mu yeah, my mom's very Catholic. I you know, I was very Catholic. I talk about it in the special, I was an altar boy, I was I was just full full in and you know, my mom I think the biggest thing I learned from my mom is to laugh at yourself. My mom is like uh always willing to lean into the character of of herself. Yeah. You know. Uh and

I like I just love that. I just think that's a good attitude. Well I guess if you lean into you know, if you're a believer and you know you're flawed and you're imperfect and you use Jesus to relieve you of that That there must be some acceptance of of who you are if you have that relationship with Jesus. Yeah. That's a that's an optimistic take. Yeah. I hope that's you don't want to overuse cheeses. No, you don't want to overuse cheeses.

And my I think in some way I see this in my daughter sometimes. It's like sh you know, like my mom will be fri will be friends with Anyone who wants friends. Yeah. You know what I mean? She's of service. She's of service. It's astonishing. That's real churchy shit. Yeah. She'd be like

My friend Ellen was saying blah blah blah I was like, Ellen who? Like, uh this person I met at the grocery store. You met someone at the grocery store? But like that's what my mom is like and and and I'd like to think I picked up a little bit of that from her. She's kind.

Oh that's nice. You know, and that's what that's what the end of the special ends on is all we have is these small acts of kindness. Yeah. I think that's uh that's probably true. Uh I try to be kind. Sometimes it's a little late. Like now, this conversation? We do fine. Yeah, we're fine. We are. I I don't have any you know, like whenever we do it

I have to reckon with the fact like, you know, like, hey Marco, what are you what are you so hard on this guy for? What the what the fuck is it really? But, you know, I I I find that um Like my struggle in relation to other people or how I see it, it's just sort of the same thing as uh uh nothing's fair. that there was a a time where literally you were doing one of the shows at the uh at the Bleecker Theater. Right. And you were in the basement, yeah. Yeah. And to me that was like

Fuck. How does like how you know And you're younger than me? Well I knew how it happened. I'm a f I'm out of my mind. Yeah, yeah. And you weren't. That's right. But but it was you know all based on this sort of like you know like y you know, he's this you know, uh uh palatable person. Right. That's able to, you know, wrangle this thing into these shows and get all this attention. And I'm down there, you know, yelling. Yeah.

Yeah, I get it. So it it was really all rooted in that. Yeah, I get that. But I'm I'm you know, I'm letting it go. I let it go every time we hang out, every time we talk. You keep coming here. True. It's been a while though. Yeah. Well, I think uh we went through well, I mean there was that thing with Lynn, that was kind of upsetting to me. And I don't know why I hold on to things really. But uh I'm always good with you. Yeah. You all right? Yeah, I'm good. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like uh yeah, I'm good. What? No, I got nothing. I got nothing. You go with there's nothing to process? No, I just feel like whenever Uh you talk about me. On the show. Yeah. Like people texted me last week. He talked about me during the Nick Kroll episode. Did I? Yeah. Oh.

You're like, I have a thing with him or whatever. Yeah. And you were like, Do you guys all hang out with each other? Yeah. You know, that kind of thing jealousy. Yeah. And there's I got all this text messages being like Mark's talking about you again the show. And then we talk on the phone and it's nice and then it's like there's a premium episode where it called Mike Brabiglia called me and then we you talk for

Forty five minutes about a twenty minute phone call we had. Yeah, but I felt bad. And the phone call was nice. But no, but I felt bad. Because the whole p uh thrust of that was like I'm mad and then like I say a thing, I don't feel great about it, and then you text me and I'm like, Oh fuck, now I gotta really deal with it. And by the time that happens, I feel bad about what I've done. Right.

And that's that it's it's just this dumb thing that I got from my father is like you you focus, you you get angry, you say some shit and then like it's out of you. Yeah. But but the the component of it that's missing is that well you hurt someone's feelings. And you know, that was the that was the the arc of that. So now you you you're fine, but it also puts me in a position to where like, yeah, dude, I'm sorry, like to defy you to accept me.

And and now and I think that was my whole dynamic with my old man. Yeah. And and that you know, I used to do that joke on stage. You know, like I do this little thing where I push the audience away, push'em away and then pull'em back and pull'em back, then I push'em away just to see if I can pull'em back. It's a little dynamic I call dad. So the uh Well I my version of that actually and this circles back to your question, are you angry is like

I have this joke from Old Man in the Pool not a joke, it's just a piece of writing from Old Man in the Pool where I go I write my journal every few nights because I find if you write down what you're saddest about or angriest about, um uh y you can um I forget what the line is. It's like if you're sad as about or you're angry as about, um oh, you can start to see your own life as a story. Yeah. And at a certain point

y hopefully you can encourage the main character to make better decisions. Yeah. And like that is why I journal. Like the things in my journal are fucking wild. Yeah. Like they're fucking angry. They're yeah. They're spun out. Yeah. But I don't You don't have to live in it. No, I do live in it. But it becomes a story once you write it down. It becomes a story. So like a lot of like like a few years ago I did a special called The New One and it was all about

How I never wanted to have a child and then h all the reasons you should never have a child and then how I had a child and how I was right and then how I was wrong. And that's kind of the emotional landing point of the show. And it's a lot like a lot of that show is me fucking writing in my journal for all those years of feeling like

I'm completely left out of the like mother-daughter relationship. I'm the fucking third person who no one gives a shit about. I'm not really part of this thing. And like a lot of that stuff ended up being really good jokes. Yeah. But at the time this is I was angry. Oh, sure. I was like furious. Well, yeah. So like well, even with with the dynamic and Nick's another guy. Dude, I had to stop following him on Instagram.

Yeah. Like I I mean like Nickroll? Yeah. Wow. Because I I d and and I tell but you know, he's he's different. I I think he's got a thicker skin than you really. Oh, okay. I don't know about that, but sure. Well maybe it's a funnier, thicker screen. Nick is funny. Yeah, I've known Nick since he's twenty years old and I know, he told me. And he's so fucking he was always funny. Yeah. That's the thing about him. He's funny in his bones. Totally gifted comedian guy. Yeah, yeah.

So I had to stop following him on Instagram because I got tired of s looking at his g gilded childhood. It's so funny. Like you know, it's just like so much love around him. He really does have a love. I know. And it just kept coming up and I'm like, I just can't fucking take this anymore. This guy's got everything. And I think if I can be honest with you in terms of like why I it's all me, dude.

But uh I have uh total inability to see my place in the world and I'm not very good at gratitude. So the the phantom limb that I live with. is that I feel that people are doing better than me or they're they're being treated better than me, they're being received better than me. It's it's fundamental insecurity. But we're sitting in my house

I'm doing okay. I'm doing good. I'm doing everything we should be doing. I'm doing a special. I'm acting in movies. But there's still part of me that's sort of like, Well, fuck Burbiglia and the show. Yeah. That one man show. I'm like I don't even know what that is, but it's not real. And I'm sorry that I act on it. I appreciate that.

And I I won't I don't I won't talk shit about it. It's it's always like and I know it doesn't make me look good and I know it's just it n it doesn't read as anything other than what it is. Mark is is at times a resentful, insecure, jealous cunt and I don't know why he is that'cause he's doing fine and it doesn't serve me. I get it. Maybe this will be the episode that finally buries it. Yeah, could be a good idea. It's my own fucking person.

You know what was the you know what s you know cured me from jealousy when I wrote Don't Think Twice. was realizing I started to analyze jealousy and I was like I had this realization You can't be jealous of s of of something someone has. Or that's not you. You can only be jealous of you if you can only truly be jealous if you would trade your life right one for one with that person. Yeah. And if you think about the person you're jealous of, you're like

No, I would never fucking do that. Never trade my life one for one with that person. That's interesting. Yeah, I find that like a lot of times I'm jealous of of things that I wouldn't even be right for. Yeah, yeah. insecurity that I guess I wrestle with a lot. Uh still I don't talk about it as much.

But yeah, it's it's not attractive. How how's your sister Gina? Gina's good, Patty's good, Joe's good. I I I was very b I've been very blessed with like hashtag bless. siblings that are cool. Yeah. And like taught me a lot about life. Yeah. Art and comedy. Gina, it's so funny because Like I knew Gina when she was Nina Rosenstein's assistant. Yeah, in the nineties. Right. And I was at doing I was at Comedy Central doing short attention theater and I this this whole arc of so Nina is the person

that she's my person at HBO. She's the one that pushed through my last two specials. She's really cool. But like I knew her when I was a kid. Yeah. And there's been this whole life and all of a sudden I land back with her and it's so amazing and so good. I love doing the special at HBO because when I was coming up

That was what you that's all there was. That's all there was. Yeah, that was the big thing. And also it's like a curated place. You know, you you know, you you're not gonna your special's not gonna drop and then three days later you're like, I can't find it. D is it on the homepage still? Totally. Yeah, yeah. I feel

like I've been given the the I feel like the media universe has has been evolved in the period of time where my co f where my comedy went from not having a home Like it never quite fit with HBO'cause HBO was more like more edgy. And it never quite fit with Comedy Central because what I do is more theatrical. And growing up. Right. Yeah. And so I never really had a home until Netflix came along and now I'm just like, oh, this is perfect. Yeah. Because there's no commercials, thank God.

and it reaches everybody and the people who need to find it, find it. Right. And then those people are fucking super fans because it's like so what I'm doing is really specific. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I find that too. Specific different differently. But yeah. And then when you start to it's interesting when you start to build a fan base and you see them out there and like I look at them and I'm like, How are you people

The people like'cause like you're gonna manifest what you honestly are. Yeah, of course. And mine are all they're all grown up people. They're good people. But I'm glad I entertained them. But uh Yeah, I always have that when people come up to me in Brooklyn and it's always just it's whenever c someone comes up it's always like this

pear shaped middle aged ogre who's just like I totally relate to everything you're saying. I'm like, oh great. I I look like that guy. Yeah. Yeah. Inside. Inside. All right. Good talking to you, man. Thanks, man. This is good. Thanks

There you go, we did okay, me and Mike. Uh again, his special The Good Life is now on Netflix. Hang out for a minute, folks. Hey people, for Father's Day we posted a new WTF collection for Fulmaron listeners, this one featuring dads. It's got stories about fatherhood from Matt Damon, Bill Burr, Jack Gallagher, John Glazer, Hank Azaria, Ron Funches, and a recent visit with Barry Marin. Do you remember this dog? Yep. You do? Penny. When did you have that dog? Oh, I don't know. But I remember.

Penny, Penny, Penny. Look at this. That's your mom, right? Yep. How about this one? That's grandma. Ida. Do you remember her? Yeah. Was she a nice lady? Yeah. Did she talk much? I remember her talking. Was Barney her husband? Yeah. Was he a character? I didn't know him. You didn't? He was dead already? I don't know. I don't I don't I don't remember him. I love this picture. It's been Your dad? My dad. Looks good in that pick, huh? Yeah. You remember him talking much?

Uh yeah. More or less. Remember it was this look at this picture. Were you that was when you were a lifeguard? Uh Keppel Park probably. You're doing pretty good with this quiz of your life. This is a dementia test. That's the the little dog. Penny? No, another one. Inky. Inky? He To get that collection and new bonus episodes twice a week, sign up for the full Marin. To sign up, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod dot com and click on WTF Plus.

And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACast. And now I will I'll do a little guitar that's a little clunky, but uh again, uh I love you, John Lennon. Boomer lives, monkey and lavonda, cat angels everywhere.