E3 | Early adulthood with undiagnosed AuDHD

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Hello, welcome back to WTF is Audy HD with Ellie and Paige. We're two sisters with autism and ADHD and this podcast is a place for people who...

maybe neurodivergent, think they might be, know someone who is. We were diagnosed late and we're here to educate. In the last episode, we spoke about our childhoods and what our... personalities were kind of like as kids before diagnosis and how we were completely different people even though we came from the same vagina for sheen and sperm donor and sorry dad you're more than that a lot more than that

And in this ep we said we would go from basically 16, I was 16, basically from high school to 28 and 26 when we were both diagnosed.

because yeah what a journey that next eight years was yeah yeah yeah it's actually quite confronting looking back at that and like kind of thinking those eight years over trying to I guess prepare what I was going to say in this ep and I was just like

Yeah, no, I actually spent a lot of my early 20s quite depressed and anxious and frazzled. And like I didn't, oh, everything was... hard and everything was a fluster and I couldn't stick to any routines but also I yearned for routine yeah that's just one example of the contradictions between autism and ADHD

And why having both of them can be such a torturous place to be. Because in some ways they're similar, but they're not at all. They're almost the complete opposite. So autism is more like sensitivity to things. often getting overstimulated whereas ADHD you're often seeking stimulation and then there's this like paralysis between the two where we end up we'll obviously get more into the

ins and outs of autism and ADHD in later episodes and how they interact and stuff. But for now, like we said, we just want you to get to know us first so you can see where we came from and how we got to this position in our life.

How are you feeling today? Because we were talking before and we were like, we should actually start these eps by asking each other how we're feeling because it might actually show you how moody we really are. Yeah, well, prior to this, literally hitting record, it was a fucking... mental show wasn't it it was a bit it was a bit of a frantic rush around and we had a bit of a we had a bit of an outburst from ellie and um

I don't do that. No, but I was also very – I was stimulated and it was just all too much and there's so much equipment to fucking set up. Anyway. But we're here now. Anyway, this morning I felt – pretty shit but then you know one thing about me is that I must I must eat a really nutritious breakfast in the morning otherwise I just do not function so I had my breakfast a little bit later so I think that was maybe contributing to like my real downer mood and yeah my agitation

um and so after that i felt better and then um after a bit of a coffee but yeah and oh this is a bit of a side quest i'm just i'm on another medication so i've just started to come on to that so for something else so I can talk about that another time. Yeah, that's to do with your hormones, which is a whole other subject we'll get to later about the relationship between neurodivergence and the menstrual cycle, essentially. But, yeah, sorry, sorry. No, it's okay. Yeah, so.

So that I think is contributing a little bit, but I'm feeling better now. So I'm good. How are you, Ellie? It's good. I'm a bit flustered. I'm a little bit exhausted at the moment. I actually think I've come into a bit of autistic burnout, which is another thing we'll cover in another episode.

And I feel like I've got a lot to do and I just get overwhelmed and I have to actually go out shortly for a work thing, which I'm not too happy about just because I really need my weekends to recharge as someone who's neurodivergent.

I really rely on them. So having to go and mentally go out, it's not even the working, it's the mental... prep and then being there and the exhaustion that that takes on it's that i'm just stressed about but anyway yeah we are a little bit anxious today yeah also and yeah but if you went out on the street with us you would not think it because we are great at masking yeah oh my god hi how are you oh my god yeah i'm very well actually really thriving

And then get home and it's just, you know. We see the worst of each other because I take everything out on page and vice versa. Yeah. Yeah. So just, you know, the overwhelm is real and when things are too much and there's too many things for our brains to be thinking about.

this morning one little thing like oh this is actually funny it's such I reckon it's so relatable for people who have like have what we have um or may think so is that something really like something really hectic can happen and it's almost like you're just like numbed or you like you don't really react but then you can like just spill one fucking sorry i shouldn't swear drop of something on you and it's just all over. Yeah. And like that will set me off more than like.

something way more traumatic yeah no totally totally that happened to me literally this monday i woke up at 4 a.m for my work and i had a really bad like headache and but i knew i had to go to work and so i got up And I was mentally just battling. But I'm like, but everyone else has to go to work, Ellie. Just do it. Just get up. The thing that made me have a meltdown and the thing that then made me call my boss, well, I text him because it was 4 a.m. and say, I can't come in.

Is I couldn't dress myself. And that is no shit. That's true. I could not dress myself. I opened my wardrobe and I looked at it and nothing was coming at me. I didn't know how to put an outfit together. And that's how you know that the executive function is not working. And so when I couldn't dress myself... that's when i know when i knew okay i can't go into a job yeah um but again it's like that example of like

I just can't dress myself when I've had a meltdown. Yeah, I know. And then like when you obviously don't know, obviously we know now that we're ADHD and autistic, but when we didn't know that, actually this brings us to the point of this episode. Yeah. I spent most of my twenties.

having moments like that and finding it really hard to hold down a job but no one would know that like I go to work and I put on the biggest mask and I do good work and you know my employers say that I'm I'm a really good employee and I do good work but I spent most of the time really struggling with just like basic things. And I would, before I obviously knew that I had ADHD, I would beat myself up and I'd be like, but.

But everyone else, how do they get up before work, go to the gym, have their protein shake, have their outfit ready to go to work, have a shower? Like... do you know what i mean i do and then like get to work on time with with just you know oh my god life is great i just really freaking struggled man like yeah

Too many things in the morning. Every morning was an overwhelm, actually. One thing that Ellie and I really experienced when we were employed and had to... you know stick to these things and be somewhere at a certain time we vomited a lot of mornings and we or like we would be dry reaching every morning almost before work and now we realize we were under so much stress just trying to do the things that

like your neurotypical person does and finds you know not not too hard and so I spent most of my 20s beating myself up like why why is this so hard like why can't you just stick to a routine why can't you do this blah blah blah yeah

It's really rough. And it's not to say that neurotypical people don't have struggles, but we often struggle as neurodivergent people with those basic... tasks of you requiring your executive function where you've got to prioritize tasks um and basically use your brain to do basic stuff

We're not explaining this, I'm not explaining this very well, but we'll get on to other episodes as well where we talk about executive function and what that means. Yeah, it's like, it's the prioritising of tasks and the things that you need to do that you end up, that your brain struggles, it just sees it as this big... cluster of a cloud in front of you that you don't know where to start and you don't know how to prioritize things now that i'm medicated it kind of just like

everything becomes clear it's not cloudy and it just locks these tasks into place and level of priority and I'm able to go okay that's the task I do first let's do that it's chill but prior to that it was just like and then you have a meltdown and then it's just it's that's how I'd explain my ADHD and then when I'm medicated it's like oh my god oh my god I can think did you hear that I just did a

fart with my armpit oh my god um i'm able to think straight and yeah yeah i think as well with neurodivergence um i think traditionally neurotypical people will see the task to get to work so it's get up have breakfast have a shower, get in the car. Neurodivergent people often see that as wake up, roll over, step one foot onto the floor, then the next one. So we see everything.

as like multiple tasks in one task and that's why we end up overwhelmed because we can see the whole task list as like a multiverse of tasks as opposed to just five simple ones it becomes like 20 000 little ones yeah it's like everything's harder and i guess that is attributed to the lack of dopamine production so if you have less happy hormones like every little task

feels like a mountain and that's how i'd explain my 20s yeah and getting to work and having to get up at a certain time and yeah everything was just a mountain yeah it was

I'm going to go back to now just slightly to 16 because that's where we left off last time. When I was 16, again, like I said in the last episode, I was quite a high achiever at school. I got lots of, you know. Awards I was in sports teams I did have a lot of friends but like I said I was kind of jumping between groups and stuff and when I hit 16 I started getting severe bowel and like digestive issues and I was incredibly skinny.

I started losing all my hair. I was diagnosed with endometriosis, but not through a laparoscopy, which is the way you officially get diagnosed. They half diagnosed me essentially through my hormone levels. So they estimated I had it. And they treated me for that. But my body was just breaking down in front of me and they thought I had IBS, which I do, fructose intolerance, all these things. Anyway.

16 to 18 I hit a wall where I had just blown out my school in terms of done so well and a lot of my friends when I was 16 because they were slightly older they all left. Once my older friends left

I really felt like I had finished school. I was like, well, they're leaving. And I feel as mature as them. And I feel like I'm almost as smart as them. And so for that last few years of school, I... genuinely struggle to to get through it and i didn't understand why and now hindsight is a beautiful thing i now realize at the age of 16 i had autistic burnout 100 my weight was just oh my god i look back and i'm like how was i that skinny

it was unhealthy skinny it was like it was i look back at those photos i mean i'm just like oh that poor girl she was so stressed but she didn't realize it because she was getting reinforced constantly for being so wonderful literally i was told i was smart

blah, blah, blah, all these wars, deputy head girl, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So my reality was very different to what was happening in my brain and it reflected in my body, but we never figured it out. It was always like, oh, what health issue do you have? No one once thought maybe my brain was built differently and my issues were...

actually mental health issues yeah then I hit my 18th and I went to university to study psychology oh I wonder why I wonder if I was trying to figure out my own brain I think in hindsight I was um and I went into the halls and traditionally for some people with autism that might be really overwhelming because there's a lot of people and it was but I also thrived in those situations where I was forced with people because it was if you were in my vicinity

I could make friends quite well because I was masking. And I genuinely loved all my friends at uni. I still do. But I don't have to keep in touch with many of them because it was sort of like a – um it's inside out of sight out of mind or opposite of that where it's like right in front of your face so you're all in you're like this you know yeah exactly and so i struggled um

living in the halls was actually one of the best years of my life it actually was it was really fun and I got to meet a lot of people I obviously medicated a lot with alcohol and I met a nice boyfriend but I think that's another thing about me that was we won't get into this right now but I often had a boy

I really did kind of go from a high school boyfriend to a university boyfriend to another boyfriend to then my current boyfriend. And I think that was also a thing where I never wanted to be alone. I love all those boys, but I think there was definitely something going on there where I kind of had a...

security blanket in the way of a boyfriend so when I was at university I had a boyfriend so that actually helped me get through I think if I'd never boyfriend I don't know how that would have gone maybe it would have gone better for me but I don't know if it would have I actually think I would have got really overwhelmed and really lonely so university was interesting because I was really smart so I was I was cramming at the last minute

I was not listening in lectures slash couldn't listen, could not pay attention. There were a few I could because I was interested in them. But university was really interesting. Again, it was this like mismatch between, oh my gosh, LE is in the top 15% of University of Waikato, which is true. I actually was awarded into the Golden Key Society, which is an academic society for the top 15%.

But in reality, again, I was burnt out. I had a really good visual memory. So when I did exams, I just memorized it visually and then spat it onto the paper. So if you ask me now about my degree, I wouldn't know anything. Like I actually didn't retain any of it. A PSA from Instacart. It's Sunday, 5 p.m. You had a non-stop weekend.

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So again, really, sorry, I'll talk about my uni and then we'll get to your uni. I got to the end of uni to graduate with... awesome grades but again I realized like I don't even enjoy this I don't even like studying just because I'm good at it and I've tricked the system and learned how to work the university system which I don't think everyone can do

It didn't necessarily mean I wanted to go and be a psychologist in the end. So this is where my mental health really took a turn. And I essentially... had the worst few years of my life after university because I didn't know where I was. Because you didn't have the structure. The thing is, is you're scared of authority and you don't want to fail. You're a perfectionist. So you...

You were like so perfect because of like the confines of university and school that like kept you accountable when you didn't have that. everything came to light oh yeah oh yeah and i didn't i i had achieved so much up until the 21 that i thought oh man like i'm gonna be a successful adult now I now realise that 21 is a child and my expectation of life was so far from my reality of life that I got really bad mental health.

Reckless behavior after being a really good girl. I was never a bad girl. I never did drugs at school. I was really good. I barely even drank alcohol at school. But once I hit 21, I found cannabis. And that was... That's a whole other episode, but substance abuse happened. Soft medication. Yeah. I drunk alcohol, didn't even really like alcohol, but always drunk it. And I was, I did like.

disrespectful behaviors to my own body, you know, sleeping with people that I shouldn't have, just all sorts of self-destructive behavior. I even pulled away from my mum and dad. That really damaged my relationship with my mum at that time. We're good now, but... It was just really bad because mum was going, my little innocent Elliot just seems to be off the rails. And I ended up going getting diagnosed with depression and anxiety. I was put on acetylopram.

And within four months, I was like, I don't feel anything. This is not working. And so I took myself off it, which I do not recommend that. But I did wean myself off because I've been to university and studied psychology. I did know that you have to wean yourself off. So I weaned myself off and still felt lonely. And I was like, why do I still feel lonely?

I feel so depressed, but then my life was so good in a way. So confusing. I had a loving family. I had a loving sister. Great partner. Well, not at that point. Actually, not at that point. I was still disrespecting myself in that way. I had health pretty much. I had a house in terms of a flat.

Everything was actually good, but I just felt really depressed and I felt like I couldn't talk to anyone about it because... You gaslight yourself into going, well, everything's like fine, like I'm fine, but you're not. I wasn't. Yeah, exactly right. So basically from 22 to 26, it was a nightmare. And I didn't know where I fit. And I really self-destructed. And my mental health was just so poor in hindsight. I don't think I had...

true depression and anxiety, what I think I had was mismanaged ADHD, which turned into anxiety and autistic burnout, which looks like depression. So that's actually what I had and no one identified that in me. And so again, it was, oh, I have this medication.

that didn't work so that was kind of up until sort of 26 I'm gonna hand over to you now what was uni like for you no I was just gonna I had a few thoughts on your like it's so funny how like it's not funny but I say that in like a so interesting how

Ali would never say this herself, but Ali Harwood was fucking cool, man, and popular, and everyone loved Ali Harwood. Everyone knows Ali Harwood. Everyone's like, oh, my God, and... it's true though and you would never know or think that you were actually really struggling it just really goes to show that you can like people are struggling yeah and master masker and a slam yeah so like

I just it's sad because like people struggling day to day so much but you just never know it so I think it's just like a reminder that like if you're really struggling to like try to speak to someone and it's okay because we don't want anything leading to anything more severe because holding it in is never good. So it's just interesting how everyone had this huge perception of you, which...

You were that, but you were at what cost? Literally, at what cost? I was going home every night and just so depressed and so uneducated. I just, yeah, it was really bad. And I think... What was my point there? Classic ADHD. No, no, no, it's fine. I rock. No, I forgot. Damn it. What was it? Was it good?

I think, I don't know, I can't remember. I was talking about masking and how it took a lot out of me. Even just the masking took a lot out of me. That was exhausting me too. And I'd come home from work or school or whatever in my whole life and be a...

nightmare at home but then at school I appeared really like great which is the anomaly between like often neurodivision people are like that they'll be an angel at school and then they come over to their parents and they're assholes this is what I'm gonna say If you are listening to this and you've been diagnosed with depression and anxiety or whatever, and you haven't been diagnosed with autism or ADHD. Or tested for them. Yeah, like maybe...

Consider testing for them because I really think that sometimes the root cause is how your brain's wired. It's not. I think anxiety and depression becomes almost like a symptom of like mismanaged. Something. Yeah, your brain not. not working to what it needs. Yeah. Because sometimes mismanaged ADHD or autism can look like depression and anxiety. Exactly. I was just another thought that I had, sorry, when you were talking about your upbringing and your school and uni is that.

The thing with Audie HD is someone might think like you don't sound or look autistic. That's a classic that you've heard millions of times, right? It's so draining. Yeah. The thing with Audie HD is that you're almost like a real introvert extrovert where it's this like huge parallel and you can be both. So at work or at school, everyone loves Ellie and everyone's friends with Ellie and it's like, whoo!

like you just would never think like yeah yeah it's and then because that's almost like i mean it's a lot of things but your adhd getting to you through those those situations um yeah like my ADHD hides my autism and then my autism hides my ADHD yeah so like you don't know and and it's really hard to spot both of them yeah yeah so if you if you're thinking about stereotypes and just what

Yeah, throw them out the window. They're so not what you think. We've had one display of these two things. ADHD and autism have pretty much traditionally been displayed in the media as a little white boy for ADHD who throws a chair. And then for autism, a little white boy who has social issues and doesn't look you in the eye. Or is like mute or something.

That's like really basic, but like that's the stereotypes we've been given because only young white boys have been studied. And what we're discovering now in 2024 is that brains... are different based on, you know, your biological sex at birth. So we're now discovering all this new stuff. girls traditionally are better maskers and better at fitting in socially because we have to as women. Men have more of a past. It's not an anti-men thing, by the way. This is just true. Men have...

more grace in society to be boys. And, oh, it's just being a boy. Oh, it's just boys. Oh, is he mean to you? It means he likes you. That validates the mean behavior. I got told that so much. Oh, he just likes you. Oh, so it's okay to be mean, is it? Exactly. It's just the way society is. And whereas it's like, oh, Paige, that's not very ladylike of you. Yeah, it's like I heard that a lot. And so.

We're kind of taught to do this, do that. Conform, conform, conform, conform. So then when you get a neurodivergent girl, there's conforming as a woman.

as a girl and then there's conforming to the neurotypical way and so you're conforming twice and it's just so damaging to you and it becomes we become master maskers especially especially women we're just a lot better at fitting in than boys are because we're not given as much grace and it's a survival thing we have to try and fit in otherwise we get abused like it's true like we have to just yeah so the stereotypes are not what you think what about you from

Like 16 to 26, what were your 10 years like there? Yeah, so obviously I was a really, I was an athlete and I trained a lot and it got to a point where I was studying full time. Trying to train for heptathlon, which is seven athletics events. I had a job at Subway. What else? Trying to enjoy my first year at uni in the halls. And yeah, I got completely burnt out. So I had to, I gave up aesthetics, which now is really sad because...

if I do say so myself, was very gifted and I had, I'm very athletic and I had a great coach and Paige represented New Zealand at the age of 10. Like, so she was really just, her excelling was in the sports field. You did well at school.

You did, but you weren't like me in terms of like you weren't as good at books and writing. You were very much a visual, physical person. Yeah. And you were great. And so at the time, I actually had nothing else to give. And what's interesting is I was probably burnt out for like...

two to three months where I was just a robot and I was just going places and masking and just um doing what I had to do to please like my coach please you know and then I got to a point where I literally I remember going to the track um at millennium and i was sitting outside next to the track and um matt my coach comes out it's really sad it's a really sad thing actually because i

I loved athletics and I was very good at it. And obviously now, you know, athletics, you have like a, you do have a clock where you're your fittest and you're strongest. And I sat down and I just broke down into tears when he'd never seen that because I'd been masking for so long until it was too late. And I was like, I can't do this anymore. I can't. He was great. Love him.

We talked for a few hours and it was very sad. And that was the time that I broke up. Yeah, broke up with athletics and Matt. And then I... proceeded to abuse alcohol, got into a bit of the MDMA, ecstasy, sorry mum and dad, it's true. And I was constantly chasing.

chasing the high of dopamine because I had none um and so I binge drank I mean we all kind of did at that age but it's not good but I was doing it because yeah yeah you were so lost and also socially i used i think you did too we used alcohol to fit in because when we alcohol made socializing way easier for me even though it looks like i'm really good at it i actually still struggle all the time and so alcohol really

helped us get through that but it's not in a healthy way yeah yeah so exactly i abuse a bit of drugs and some alcohol a lot of alcohol and

Yeah, I could not stick to routine, could not, but needed it. So my whole life was just like an overwhelming mess. And then like one. one week I'd stick to a routine. I'd be like, oh my God, this is it. I'm able to stick to a routine. This is great. Oh my God. And then something would happen and it would just be, I would just fall off the wagon again and I'd beat myself up.

Trying to hold down a job, be somewhere at a certain time, be told by someone to be here at 9am, dress, brush teeth, hair, like... get on a bus by this time if that if I have to get to work by 9 30 that means I have to be getting off the bus at this time and that means that I have to be getting on the bus at this time and then that therefore means I have to walk out the front door at this time and then therefore that means oh my god it's just

it actually just is so exhausting every single day yeah yeah it is and then uh yeah just especially when you don't know why yeah now that we know why it's not as exhausting because we're way kinder to ourselves but we also put things in place to make sure we're not overwhelmed. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so I'd spend a lot of my weekends getting fucked up. Yeah. And you changed study a couple of times too. Yeah. I chopped and changed that because I don't even know what I wanted to do.

So random. I did sport and rec, didn't finish that. Then went and did animal management and welfare. So random. I mean, whatever, I love animals. So I thought, you know, like sport, let's try that. Okay, no. Like animals, let's try that. Okay, oh no. Pulled out of the degree, got a diploma because... I just – I get bored really easily and that's the other thing in my 20s is before I was medicated is that I – the –

My manifestation of chasing dopamine was one, alcohol, but two, I would get on an idea and be like, oh my God, I've got the best idea. I'm going to do this and do that. I was making jewellery at one time. started an Instagram I've got about I've got a graveyard of about 15 15 Instagram accounts of like trying the most random stuff which can I say I admire you for that because I'm the opposite I wouldn't try anything because

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Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. I'm good at quite a lot of things, not to toot the old horn. I'm quite good at a lot of things, as you are.

But I didn't have the balls to try everything because I was scared of failing. Because being at school, I'd been so successful. So this ingrained success and pride thing was built into me. And so I didn't even have the balls to... um try things i didn't try things at all so i was paralyzed and did nothing whereas at least you tried yeah and i mean it's

I say it's embarrassing. It's not. It's all growth and it's all got me to the point I am now, which now I'm very happy and well-rounded and just very, you know. But I look back and I'm like, oh my God, I just did the most random things and like was like literally believed that it was going to make me millions of dollars. Like, oh my God, this is it.

is the best idea ever and then would literally like buy all the things do it for like a month and then it was just like oh yeah all of a sudden oh what i don't want to do that what the hell that's so lame

and then i'll start a new instagram oh my god this is it i've got it and then it's just crazy and i just you just feel like shit just like the hatred comes inward that's the thing yeah i felt like a failure at all these things which it's not if you're going through the same thing it's really not because now

I realized where I am now, everything's brought me to this point. Somewhere, sometimes you've got to go where you don't want to go to realize you didn't want to be there. Exactly. And then you, if you hadn't have gone there, you wouldn't have known that. you didn't want to be there exactly so you have to go places to actually realize where you want to be yeah and um yeah so that was a huge thing

was like the chopping and changing of just things. And because I knew I'm a very driven person. I'm so hungry. And I, yeah, so I knew that I didn't want to be an employee. I knew I didn't want to be told for the rest of my life to be at this place at this time.

and not have any say over the matter. I definitely have PDA, which is pathological demand avoidance. I get told to do something as a kid. It's like, I'm going to be a good girl. I'm going to do the dishes. And then mum would ask me to do it. It's like, nah.

I was going to do it, but no, you've actually just made it. You're telling me now, so it's made it a shit. You've taken the dopamine away from me. Exactly. The dopamine that Paige was seeking there was to take the initiative to do the dishwasher, say, and get the reward from mum going, oh, Paige. Paige, thank you. But as soon as mum asks, the reward's gone. Exactly. So that's classic. Yeah. So I just knew that and I never understood.

I guess like you could call it like the matrix now, but I used to just sit at my desk and I would have finished all of my work for the day. But I wasn't allowed to go home at 3 p.m. and go live those three hours of my life. I had to sit at my desk and look like I was busy. I could not.

Reconcile that principle in my brain. I was like, that is... fucked up it doesn't make sense it does not make sense i'm way i would sit there going i'm wasting my life away right now and so sorry no hate to people who are who are employed this is just how my brain is and i just was like so that's where that drive came from Trying so many different things because I was so hungry to make something work so that I could literally call the shots and have the freedom. Yeah.

And can I say, though, as well, at work, I just want to note that you were completing your work twice as fast as everyone else. It's not like you were doing less work. You were doing just as much. But the neurodivergent brain often can do things at double speed. But we run out of battery quickly. So we go hard for four hours and then we...

We need to stop. Whereas the traditional eight-hour workday does not work for us. We need to go four hours at a time, have a little nap or eat, then go another four hours. It just does not work.

I'm proud of you for pulling out of that. And I think I just want to know as well, one thing that I think one reason me and you were so lost in our 20s is traditionally neurodivergent interests, this is a generalization, but traditionally neurodivergent interests are often in the creative field, right? So when you were two years old,

years old you're an incredible artist when I was two years old I was making up performances in front of my family at the tv like we were clearly like we clearly had quite obvious interests at a very young age, art and performing. However, society told us right through our school years that that's useless, that's not valuable, that's not going to make you money, don't do that, that's a shit, that's a waste of time, that's not going to work. So me and you fucked around.

for like 10 years going, oh, psychology. Oh, what about sports? Oh, what about animals? Art and acting, and that doesn't make any money. And that's not valued in this capitalistic society. So we fooled ourselves into thinking we've got to find something else.

you know 32 and 30 almost yeah uh you're now a graphic designer highly highly talented graphic designer doing your art every day making a living and i'm in radio which is performing i'm podcasting because i've always been good at talking and i'm acting so Everything we did is...

two year olds has now come to fruition again. And I think we're happy now because I think neurodivergent people in particular need to be passionate. Otherwise there's no dopamine there to actually drive us. And I think if anything, just listen to what you do as a kid and don't listen to anyone else because.

If you're good at that and you're passionate about it, just go for it. Who cares? Especially with social media now. You can make money easier. You can make it work. Yeah. We need to stay authentic to ourselves and true to ourselves. to be happy and do what we love and we got we that was kind of stumped out like stamped out of us almost yeah and then to all just get back to this point literally Literally at 30 and 32. Yeah, it's...

It's just insane. Like I now look back and go, oh my gosh, like we should have just stuck at it. But it's okay. The neurotypical structure and capitalism does not reward things like that, even though everyone loves art and everyone loves watching acting. Everyone consumes art and goes, yeah, you should go and do that at school or whatever. So basically we're now pretty much up to like 26 and 28. We've all kind of danced around.

This is almost nearing the end of this episode because the next episode will be about our diagnosis and how we got it and why. Is there anything else you wanted to say about your life up until 26? I was just going to say that you actually touched on this, that you had really bad digestive issues and IBS and all that. And I also like vomited before work or, um, you know, sorry to say, but had the shits all the time. Like, um,

Sorry, guys, we're real here. So, yeah, head the shits. And we now know that... the gut is so connected to your brain it's like the second brain like that's what they say and so really all of that was happening up in our brain but it was all manifesting through like physical physical digestive issues which is just crazy yeah um

But, yeah, so mainly to round up. Couldn't stick at anything, but would beat myself up over it because I wanted to be successful so bad and wanted to stick to a routine. Saw everyone else sticking to a routine, going to the gym.

um going to work and managing that um and i just couldn't but you did so well we both did actually considering all of this going on behind the scenes we both had reasonably success like successful 20s we actually did and I think this is another discrepancy is that we appeared to be achieving well

but deep down the cost was at our mental health. And that is the biggest message of this entire podcast, to be honest, and we will touch on this more, is that undiagnosed neurodivergence can lead to horrific mental health issues. And diagnosis saves lives. And I mean that to my core. Like I want to cry. Yeah. Because it does. And people think it's just a label. But you know what? The label.

tells me what my brain needs that's what it does it's telling me why it's validating you it's so validating yeah so please just diagnosis does save lives um I don't know where I'd be at 32 now if I did not have this piece of information that I learned at 28 and 30 because autism came after.

I don't know where I'd be, and I think I'd be a lot more depressed. I still have mental health issues now, for sure, but I at least can reconcile them in my brain and understand why I have them. Yeah, 100%, I think as well. There's a stat that I think like the average, the median age for an autistic person is like.

Isn't it like 40 or something or 50? I don't know exactly, but it's a lot lower than the average person because a lot of people go undiagnosed their entire lives, are so depressed. Like I was so depressed and anxious in my 20s. Now I'm obviously sorted, but... Yeah, the life expectancy is lower. Yeah, the life expectancy is lower because life is harder and, you know, we look depressed and we are depressed and sometimes that is just too much for people to bear. Trigger warning.

It's either suicide or it is reckless behavior that leads to death. Or substance abuse. Yeah. Oh, I guess that is. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, so diagnosis changes lives. So when I hear people say things like, it's just a label or, oh, you've managed this far, so far, oh, my God, so far in your life. Don't listen to them. Don't listen to them. If you're confused, if you're depressed or anxious and you can't find a solution, you don't know why.

Asked to be screened for ADHD and autism. Just to rule them out. Or OCD. All of the neurodivergence, really. Yeah. Because it could be... potentially why you're feeling all these things and don't let anyone invalidate your feelings and your experiences because they're very your experience is so valid yeah they are they are so in the next episode we're going to talk about

Why do we even get diagnosed? Because as we've just stated, we had no idea we had this. What made us get to it? We'll cover that in the next step, how we got our diagnosis and what the process was like. And we can also provide info if you're listening and you would like to try and seek a diagnosis. So thanks for listening. Thank you. And I guess we'll chat to you next episode.

Went to go say chat to you next time and I just had a real weird moment. Chat to you next time, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. Bye. Bye. Why choose a Sleep Number smart bed? Can I make my sight softer? Can I make my sight firmer? Can we sleep cooler? Sleep Number does that. Cools up to eight times faster. and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side. Your sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night.

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Growing up. And everything in between. And everything in between. This season, we've had Reese Witherspoon reveal the greatest cookie recipe. We had Gary Oldman, who's freshly knighted. Sir Gary Oldman. Sir Gary Oldman. We did some singing with Gloria Estefan.

has shared some culinary stories with us. And it's not just this series. We've had plenty of other brilliant guests where you can listen back to all the episodes. People like Cher. Dolly Parton. Kate Winslet. Sam Paul McCartney. John Legend. Benny Blanco. We've had them all and we fed them very well. Come and listen to Table Manners, the podcast with me, Jesse Ware and Lenny Ware. Acast.com.