E25 | Why AuDHD is so hard to treat (and live with!)

The longer you stay alive, the longer you can enjoy Boost Mobile's unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. So here are some tips. Do not parallel park on a cliff if you want to enjoy an unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. Do not mistake a wasp nest for a pinata if you want to enjoy an unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. Do not microwave a hard-boiled egg if you want to enjoy an unlimited plan with a price that never goes up.

Stay alive and enjoy Unlimited Wireless for $25 a month forever with Boost Mobile. After 30 gigs, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I don't... know if you've heard, but Mint's premium wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk.

Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a try at midmobile.com slash switch.

Upfront payment of $45 for a three-month plan, $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile.com. Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers' new phones. Wait, we're going on tour? We're delivering and setting up customers' phones.

Not a tour. Not with that attitude. Introducing store to door. Switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery. Delivery available for select devices purchased at boostmobile.com.

Hello and welcome back to another episode of WTFs. Audie HD, we're Ellie and Paige, late diagnosed sisters. We were diagnosed late. And we're here to educate. You fucked that up. I know, and I think that's just going to be a reflection of this entire episode today.

You know, we're battling a little bit, aren't we? Yeah, just straight up, we'll just say, I've been sick for the last week. You can probably hear it in my voice. I'm still not quite right, so I'm lacking energy and brain power. And Paige, how are you going over there? You know, I'm definitely burnt out for that one. Yeah. Very tired. My self-care has kind of gone down the drain. Hairy legs. It's not even like a big deal at all, but just.

You know, I didn't wash my hair for, like, a week. Getting in and out of the shower was, like, really hard walking up and down the stairs. I literally felt like I'd run, like, a 400-meter race. And, yeah, I've just, like, don't make my beard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, usually Paige is reasonably good at keeping her house in some sort of order, in an ADHD order is what I would say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's five bags of cat poo in my bathroom.

And I haven't taken them downstairs to the bin because it's just too much to bear. Yeah, I understand. Burnout is bloody real. And I think Paige goes through spouts like this, as we all kind of do. Paige is very driven by her dopamine, usually, when it comes to work and, like, anything in life, really. And this is the whole ADHD contradiction. Like, we end up going from energy, energy, energy, energy, energy, burnout.

And it almost hits us before we realise that it's hitting us. And I think this is also why people can get misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder, right? Yeah. Because then you end up, I just end up being horizontal with my eye mask on and just needing like...

To be away. Like this light right now is like not the good. Yeah, we have a light in here obviously to make us look hot. But it's very bright. But yeah, I guess this is actually leading into our episode quite well in a way. We want to chat today just about.

Audie HD and sort of the contradictions and like the irony of living with, sorry, Audie HD in the way of wanting one thing but needing something else. And we're going to involve quite a few listeners in today's episode. I put a question out asking people what their everyday kind of ADHD contradictions are.

And we've got quite a few replies and a lot of them I've just been nodding at going, oh my gosh, yes. Oh my gosh, yes. And we'll share a couple of our own as well. Because I think when it comes to ADHD, it's a really... weird space to be in in the way of we have very little research still as we've said many many times but I'm not kidding when I say that this podcast here along with a few others and other researchers are kind of the trailblazers in this area

I'm not trying to toot our own horn, I'm actually just genuinely being real, that I think a lot of the time all Paige and I can really do is discuss our lived experiences because it's contributing to the wider pool of research. Because it was only able to be diagnosed... together 12 years ago, you can imagine how many people before 2013 were diagnosed with just one or the other and are actually just ADHD probably. Or presented as like big highs and big lows and then.

bipolar disorder, right? Totally. Like I think there's so many misdiagnoses of ADHD and we're only, we're not even anywhere near catching up to it. So even us trying to bring you knowledge and info. some of the most valuable info and knowledge we have is ourselves, including the stuff that you as a listener bring to us, because the research is lacking. And because of that lack of research, lack of lived experience across, you know, years.

It also means that the treatments for audio HD are very far behind too. So like I find the problem with talking about audio HD and the reason we started, one of the reasons we started this podcast is. There's so much research now on ADHD and autism separately, but I really do struggle to relate to those. Like there's bits that I relate to. I'm like, oh yeah, I get that. And then there's ADHD bits where I'm like, oh yeah, I get that. But.

I really don't fully relate to a lot of that research. Because it's its own experience. It really is. Well, it is in ways combo of both, but it's like its own experience. Yeah. It's like when you put, I don't know. What are the primary colours? Blue and red together. And you get purple. That's a whole different colour. It is. That is just so good, that analogy. But the red and the blue are very separate and different in their own way. Yes. And so treating the red paint.

with a strategy that suits only the blue paint, it's not going to work. So this is what happens in our brain. Like we get treated with autistic strategies and then our ADHD can't stick to it. Or we get given autistic, I'm sorry, ADHD strategies or medication, for example, and then it increases our experience of sensory overload. Yes. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yes. So today we just wanted to talk about the contradictions and not even necessarily offer solutions because...

Honestly, genuinely, they're still trying to work out how to treat people with ADHD. There are strategies, but it has to be a combination of ADHD medication, say, and then autistic structure and therapy there. Again, I've been in therapy and I've been given handouts to read and I've been given exercises to do. And do you think I've done them? Like I haven't, like I haven't really. Reading, a bit of the reading I've done because it interests me. I'm also talking about.

Years ago, too, when I was in therapy, I'm not just talking about the therapy I do these days. Years ago, I was given all these like workbooks and like sheets of shit. And I'm like. It's so ironic. Yeah, it ends up in the bottom of my car, like passenger seat. And you don't forget that it's there until one day, like three years later, you go clean out your car, which is a mess, by the way. Well, not anymore, but you know. Or I'm going to the next appointment. I'm like, oh, s***.

What did they give me last time? Oh, I need to pretend I did. You're like freaking studying for your, yeah, what do you call it? Yeah. My brain is fried. Same. We're both a bit fried today. So apologies if this is a bit messy.

I'm a bit delirious, eh? And I'm very up and down, like Ellie said. I'm just very sporadic, very intense, and then I'll just hit a wall and I'll just be like, leave me alone. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's volatile to deal with. No, I'm just kidding. So yeah, it's what we're trying to say is we have no solutions for you at the end. No, but we just want to stress if you're feeling like you've just been diagnosed or you're discovering you might have ADHD.

and you're going, oh, what now? Oh, my gosh, I feel so alone. It feels like there's no treatment. It feels like there's no solutions. Welcome. Yeah, you're not fully wrong. Like, you're a little bit right. And I'm doing as much research as I can. And, you know, we had Mike Cochran on last week, a wonderful clinical psychologist who offered amazing insight. And that's not the last guest we'll have. We're going to have lots of great guests that can give us more insight into this.

For now, it's just us. And yeah, the treatment for ADHD is still a work in progress. And the other gap and issue in this whole thing is that even the psychiatrists and psychologists are behind on this. So like you could go to a psychologist and they could be treating you for your autistic traits, but they may not even know that you're ADHD or they know you're ADHD, but they try and just touch the autism and then the ADHD gets worse or vice versa.

So even the professionals are not fully up to date with this. Hence why having GPs diagnosed ADHD very soon in New Zealand is going to be very interesting because I still, as Mike said last week, there's still... errors and issues with even psychologists and psychiatrists being behind this research so i can't imagine how they're going to get the gps caught up to it it's gonna be very interesting yeah i found like totally

Wow, thanks for the validation. So insightful. Back to me. When I got diagnosed with ADHD and then medicated, my autism got... Like I just noticed it so much worse. Like my overstimulation, like my social anxiety. Me too. Because my ADHD kind of. as stressful as it was as well in its different way it kind of got me through social situations yeah me too i just noticed how like autistic i felt in these social situations once i was treated from adhd and then that came to the front

Yeah. Of like my issues. And then it's just weird. Very common experience. How do you manage both of them? It's really hard. Because they're opposites. Yeah. They really are wanting different things. And it's really hard to, you end up going.

okay, I'm going to stimulate my ADHD now. I'm going to go and get, I'm going to get energy and I've got so much energy and I want to stimulate that and I'm going to follow this dopamine that I'm finding so fun. And then it's just immediately followed by burnout. So like social situation. you know even just an example yesterday i was in the end i just laughed out loud but i was doing some work and i had my music blaring because i generally you know like that so it was like rock shit whatever

And then all of a sudden, it just comes all of a sudden. I was like, smashed it shut, like smashed it off. And then was like, oh, God. It started working again. Literally like a minute or two later. Like all of a sudden felt like I need some stimulation. Turned it on again. Worked. And shit, you know, this happened about twice. And then about a minute later, I was like, ah, turn it off. And then again, it happened again and I turned it back on. Yeah.

This is exactly the point of this episode. It's to just chat about these anomalies and these weird experiences we have. Offer advice if we have some, but isn't it torture to your brain wanting one thing and then you give it that and then it's like, nah, just can I want this thing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so hard to feel like. It's so confusing. And when you don't know, say like when we didn't know that we were ADHD, I remember we would have conversations about it, but not knowing what it was. Like I would always say like, oh, I just don't know what happened. I had so many good. habits in place and then all of a sudden this week I've just fallen off the wagon and it's so frustrating because

I just can't stick to anything, and I don't know why. Like, what is it? And we'd always talk about it. And now I look back, I'm like, oh, my God, that was it the whole time. Yeah, it was the seesaw of autism and ADHD, and it is a really, like, tiring seesaw, especially when you don't know.

And this is the other thing with ADHD, because they kind of look like opposites in some ways, and they work together, actually, in a way, people are easily, easily missed. Because it hides it. And my autism... Sorry, my ADHD's definitely masked my autism side. Yeah. For sure. Same. And then my autism side has kept my ADHD under control. In ways, yeah. So, like, I wouldn't necessarily miss deadlines or I wouldn't forget things because my...

Autistic side would be so regimented. You've learned about the fact that you're maybe a bit forgetful. So you've spent the time, you're so aware of putting things in place to help you. not forget those things exactly and this is why those ADHD screeners can even be and autism screeners can be confusing because it will have a question that says something like I often forget things say

When I saw that on the screen four years ago, my answer was no, not really. I don't often forget things. Yeah. But what you need to also realize is that I would have been forgetting things. Had I not put all these systems in place. Yes. And also I noticed that it's always when, like I'm also kind of similar. I'm probably worse than you where I'd have forgotten things. But.

I hope mum will be agreeing with that if she ever listens to this. But I would always notice if I was overstimulated is when I would forget things. If something was happening around me where my attention was like I was almost frozen and I was just kind of, I can't explain it. That's when I would forget things. Yeah, you're just shutting down, kind of. I shut down and so that's when I forget things.

Like when I left my $400 headphones in the taxi in Dubai and I was on the phone to you and I panicked and had a massive, pretty much meltdown in front of these poor men and they were like, it's okay, miss. And I'm like, oh my God. Anyway, it's just like, and then you look back and you're like,

You have no recollection of the incident whatsoever. Sorry, Harry Potter. But you look back and you're like, wait, how? Because I'm such a control freak. Yeah. Like you want to be in control of everything. I do. Me too. It annoys me because I look back, I'm like, how did that happen? Yeah. And there's no memory of it because you're just fried. Yeah, totally. And it's interesting that you forgot your headphones that day.

And you might think that's an ADHD thing, which it is, but in some ways that was actually due to your autistic shutdown that you forgot those headphones. So it's like the reasons and the whys for all these behaviors can actually be both or none.

Or one or the other. Yeah, yeah. It's so confusing. So confusing, yeah. So confusing. So, yeah, we see you again is one of the main points of this. Or, sorry, Elliot, that's so rude. Or when I left my seven pairs of... spikes at the track when I used to athletics. Seven pairs of spikes at the track. Yeah, literally she was a hit athlete and needed one pair of shoes for each event.

How do you forget all seven? And then I left them all on the track. That's so funny. Or when I left my, oh, this is so dry. Sorry, I don't even want to just cut it out. Wait, what? I was just like, who cares about my stories? No, go. Oh, I was going to say, when I went to Napier with my coach and we got off the plane and then we got straight in like the rental car and we literally get half out of the hotel and then we were like, oh, where's our bags?

And we forgot to get our bags off the campground. Like you were just like so focused on getting to your destination. Yes. Because you were probably really overwhelmed by the flight and everything. And then you forget your entire suitcase and it's still on the conveyor belt. Oh my God, I'm having visions of my suitcase just going round and round. That's funny. Yeah. So just know that we.

We're a mess inside. And we feel like it looks like we might have it under control. And honestly, people at school with us and at workplaces with us would probably look at us and go, oh, they've got it under control. They're doing quite well. And the opposite. It could not be more true. Like we look, this isn't one of the contradictions for me. I'm really good in a workplace at like having systems and processes, meeting deadlines, being a great employee, a great teammate.

but then my home life suffers and then everything at home is just absolutely a mess. And then I end up burnt out. So it's not a good thing. It's because I'm at work masking and I can put those processes in, but then I get home and it suffers there. So it's like you're living two lives.

Yeah. And that's really confusing because people have this perception of you, but actually the truth is like quite the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. So I have like identity issues with that too. Cause I'm like, what do people think I am? What do I think? What am I?

Yeah, so we're going to go through some of the contradictions that you have given us. This is in our Reddit community. If you want to come and join, just go to our link tree and click the link directly, write a little message, and then we'll add you.

Just a reminder, when you do get added and accepted, you still have to actually click the join button. So stupid. But I can see a lot of people have been accepted but not joined. So just remember you've got to actually join it to be part of the community. I think you can still see the stuff, but please join.

Because, you know, the numbers going up is quite a nice dopamine hit. Feels like I'm gambling. So we asked the question, what are some lived contradictions you often face, probably due to your ADHD? For example, I gave a couple of my examples. I love writing and I've always been into writing. I've always written in like journals and like little poems, even as a kid and stuff.

But because it's time consuming and requires me to actually get a book out or get things out to start it, I just don't do it. And it really annoys me because like, I know I could be good at it, but I can't get, even though I love doing it, I can't.

I really struggled to do it. Or about how you've wanted to be a piano player your whole life. Oh, like that one's probably the biggest thing ever that just really annoys me. Like I would be an amazing pianist. I know I would because I've got the talent and I can't stick at piano. I've tried to learn it three times. Not because I can't. This includes the real world...

complex stuff like issuing a refund or cancelling an order. And we also see it when Finn goes up against competitors. It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard, and if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all. Check it out for yourself at finn.ai.

Sleep Number does that, cools up to eight times faster, and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side. Your Sleep Number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. It's our Black Friday sale. Recharge this season with a bundle of cozy, soothing comfort. Now only $17.99 for our C2 mattress and base, plus free premium delivery. Prices higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Check it out at a Sleep Number store or sleepnumber.com today.

in it i know i get it i get the whole thing it's the needing to practice and be in a room on your own for hours i just can't do it and it sucks because i know i'd be good at it But I think it's the ADHD. I don't know. I also just expect to be Taylor Swift immediately. And it's the perfectionism of like being your divergent. You strive for perfection. And I think I actually saw someone answer and say.

I have so many hobbies that I want to do and I love, but I can't start because if they're not perfect, I don't want to do it. Oh, 100%. That is me. That is so relatable. Oh, that's me to a T. Same with piano and same with the writing. It's like. I want to be perfect and I don't, I can't find the motivation to sit in a room and do it all the time. I probably just need to find better strategies to do it, but that's one of mine.

And another one for me is I want to go with the flow. I don't want any demands or pressures on me. I don't want anyone relying on me. I don't want it. I just want to go with the flow. You can't have kids then, bro. No, I know. But then at the same time. I want everything to be carefully planned out. I want to know every detail. Yeah, on your terms. On my terms, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But I want it all planned out in my head.

And so if something goes wrong, and I mean like even like down to if we're going to go, let's just say we're going out into town. We don't often do this, but we're going to town and I've already planned out. The exact moment we're going to leave the house and I need to do X, Y, Z, you know, feed the cats, put this, blah, blah. I then know how long it's going to take us to get to the ferry terminal. You have to like back calculate everything. Yeah.

And so if someone says, oh, should we just catch the next fairy later? Even though that might sound like, oh, yeah, sweet, you've got extra time. I'm like, oh. And everything just freaks me out because it's like a domino effect. As soon as you move one. little chess piece everything else is going to have to move and it might fall and that really stresses me out so I want to be

Spontaneous and chill. When it's on your terms. Yeah, but I want to be like planned. And that's where I get my adaptability and flexibility of a lifetime of living with Ellie. What? No, yeah, true. Kind of. Yeah.

It's not a bad thing. No, yeah. It's taught me resilience. Yeah, no. Strength. Paige is pretty good at, like, reacting to my... Anytime she's like... And she'll try to explain for... I don't care. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. Yeah, sure. Sure.

No, but you need to also make sure that your needs are being met too. No, you know what's funny? It's like you always wank on to me about, you know, in relationships and stuff, like how I need to make sure my needs are met. Yeah. And then literally my sister in front of me, like, do you know what I mean? It's very ironic. What do you mean?

Like, I put my needs aside to meet yours. Yes. But I'm also saying, please don't do that too. Like, if it is actually going to put you out, please say something. I did it recently and I feel like... Like, I really struggled. What was it? It was to do with a podcast. It was to do with recording a podcast. No, you were good. You were good. No, I was good. I was good. I remember. You were good. I could feel that.

angst off you. It was there. It was seething off you, but I knew that you knew that you couldn't say shit. No, your page was feeling really down and we were going to record a podcast and I knew that it wasn't the right environment to record a podcast, but my brain was going.

oh my gosh, now everything is going to have to fall back because I'm the one that edits it too. So I'm like, oh my gosh, now I'm going to have to edit it tomorrow. I felt so bad. No, no, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm feeling pretty glonky. I was fine and I was trying so hard to mask and go, yeah, it's all good, hun.

I felt so bad. Because I also never do that, but it was really a dire situation. No, it was. Because I couldn't not. No, I recognize that. And so I was really trying hard to be like, it's all good. Thank you. But I know you could feel my.

angst seething off me. I was scared. Nah, well, the thing is, I'm never going to actually get angry. Two things can exist at once, right? Yes, yes, yes. I can be totally okay with changing it, but I can also be really fucked up. No, I know, I know. It's fine. It was just. No, I know. This is also quite a good metaphor for Audie HD. It's like two things can exist at once. You can want structure and routine, but you can want to be spontaneous. And both, there's not.

an extreme of both. Both things can exist at once. Yeah, yeah, totally. There's actually a really cool creator on Instagram. She is from Australia and she's called her, sorry, her handle is neuro dialectical if you want to go follow her i love her she her name is sarah and she's autistic adhd and has ocd and she basically has

concept of neuro dialectical neuro dialectical thinking which is literally this it's like I need routine and predictability to be safe and secure and I need spontaneity and novelty to stay focused and content so she's trying to go with the approach of like

Both things can be true and that's okay. I really love that. I'd love to get Sarah on Monday and have a chat with her. So Sarah, if you're listening. Hola. Hola, it's your gals. All right, let's move on to what people have said, okay? Wait, when are you going to say your ones? I just said them.

Oh, no, because I remember you said something to me the other day that you haven't mentioned about the environment. This is an interesting one that I figured out the other day about myself, and I wonder if anyone else will relate to this. I need consistency in my environment, so I need to like...

know what to expect in my environments, and have it all consistent and predictable. Autistic as. But I need my tasks to be dynamic. Yes. Because my ADHD gets bored. And diverse and like fun, exciting, yeah. Exactly. So that's quite a weird anomaly. No, I'm the same though. Yeah, like where I want both. It's like one thing can be consistent, but this thing can't be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it can't be the other way around. Well, that's why I built my business out of my home.

And I just sit here all day every day working on my task and I'm ping-ponging between doing social media stuff where I'm doing, you know, I'm choosing what I'm ping-ponging between because I have control over that and what me and I get to seek. And, but it's in my home and I know my environment. Exactly right. And that's why I think ideally when you're in a virgin, being self-employed is potentially the best way to do it. But it's also hard because I lack.

the motivation sometimes, the internal motivation to do that. That's why being in a workplace for me sometimes is not better because I'm just running off cortisol, but I have more motivation because I'm scared of failing. Honestly, the fear of being. owned by someone else and being told what to do by someone else is what drives me every day to keep going. As tired and as burnt out as I can get sometimes. Yeah. There is no way I'm going back to it. No, fair enough.

Fair enough. And I have seen people talk in our Reddit about, like, how do you get work? Like, what is there for us? And it's really hard. It really is. I tell you what, I'm not trying to be like, I worked hard. But it was, like, 10 years, Ellie, from, like, 20 years old. Yeah. of trying 20 to 30 different hobbies and trying to make little businesses to make something stick.

And it was stressful and it was hard and it was tiring because I also had a full-time job. So I was doing it after work. Yeah. And then on my weekends and I was tired and I was burnt out. and eating shit and drinking alcohol, which wouldn't have helped with anything, but, you know, you go to your crutches. And, yeah, it's been like now I feel good at 30 years old once I'm diagnosed and medicated.

But that was like 10 years of trial and error, which was very tiring. And I'm not sure if that's helping. That probably sounds really daunting. But I'm just trying to say, yeah, it is hard. It is hard for us. Yeah, we either have to do what Paige did.

Or we have to go into an employment environment, which is not great because you can't control anything. The environment's not consistent. And you're at the mercy of others, which I really struggle with. But then I'm good at it. But it's because I'm... a fearful stressed person that I'm good at it and I've got a good brain but like mental health suffers constantly whenever I'm in a full-time job my mental health is just awful it's just not and I've realized now finally I have to not do that

And I'm privileged that I've got a partner who's got a business and stuff. But I really struggle with the work thing because I love having a job in a workplace because it's a consistent income that's always the same. If you're on a salary, you know, every week. you're getting X amount of money. I like that because I know that I'm going to be able to pay things and I know where my limits are. But on the other hand, being in a stressful full-time job is just awful.

Then you go freelancing or contracting and yeah, you might end up with more money eventually, but in the interim, you don't know how much money's coming in. And also someone with ADHD, you might get a big sum of money. Like I've learned the hard way. Yeah. And you really might think you have a lot of money as a contractor, but you get to the end of financial year and you got to pay tax. You got to pay ACC levies. Sorry, this is not a fricking business chat, but it's just like.

That's the other thing. I've got into a bit of trouble sometimes because you're like, yo, let's go on a trip. Yeah, I'm rich. Yeah, and then you're like, oh, I should probably have saved like a third of that or half of it. Yeah.

No, exactly. It's very interesting, Stave. It is. It's pretty much, we're just pretty much saying that either way, there's a cost. There's always pros and cons to everything. But I think I finally worked out that the consistent salary for me is not worth the stress for me anymore. I'm just, yeah.

So it's hard. I'm going to start reading some of these community contributions here of the contradictions people will live with. And hopefully you relate to it. I mean, or maybe not. Hopefully you don't relate to it because it's probably really stressful. But maybe this will make you feel less alone.

We have someone who said, I want clear instructions, yet I don't want to be told what to do. Oh, my God. That's brilliant. Yes. That is me. Yeah. So that's because of pathological demand avoidance, which often comes with. autism. Oh my god, you can't win with us, but that is so true. That is me as well, man. I want to know exactly the why and all the steps so that I know what's expected of me, but don't tell me what to do.

Because I know what to do. Oh, it's so relatable. Oh my goodness. If you don't know what pathological demand avoidance is, we probably have spoken about it briefly, but it's basically as soon as there's a demand on you that's put on you by someone else and not yourself.

You really have trouble coming out of your state of mind to do that thing. Yeah, like when I was younger and I went to go do the dishes on my own accord and then like mum says it when I'm about to go do it and I sit back down and go, nah, I'm not doing that anymore. Yeah, I reckon that's an ADHD. kind of um effect where it's like

The dopamine's been taken away from you now because you were going to go and do the, take your initiative and do it. That was where the dopamine came from. I'm going to get the praise from mum after this. And then she tells me and it's not, I won't get praise anymore. So you can get there. Exactly. And then I think the PDA also comes in with autism. We're like.

People with autism struggle with like inertia in the way of like being, if they're in a state and they're doing something, moving to another state. is changing your inertia and it's really hard to do. And I think that's another reason why PDA happens because you don't want to move from where you are. Yes, 100%. If someone interrupts me while I'm like doing like a real hyper-focused task.

Like Paige, you need to go, get out. I don't even process it. I would snap. Like I snap because I don't, it's just a reaction. Yeah. Like I'm like. Yeah. It's like, it's like executive overload almost. It's just like, no, there's too much in my. in my frontal lobe right now I can't process that yes 100% oh my god it's bad it's not bad it's okay no it's just really hard to do it but now that I know what it is like I used to snap at my ex quite a lot Matt if you're listening sorry hun

We're like best friends now. No, we're besties. What? Yeah. Yeah. Why did you make that weird? I don't know why I made that weird. But I would, now looking back, there were times where I would snap not because I meant any harm, but because you'd be like, you know, I wouldn't be able to process it. I'd be like, yeah, oversimulated. Stop. Yeah, no. Amen.

Again, we probably sound like we're complaining, but we really, the point of this episode is to just make you feel less alone. If you're sitting there going, oh, what are my contradictions? You might recognize these, or you might even think of something different. You might even realize you've got contradictions in your life that you're dealing with. The same person said, I want to be in cozy clothes under weighted blankets most of the time, sensory seeking, yet I cannot bear being hot.

I think or brother could be could be brother I'm the exact same I hate being hot it is like That. Oh my gosh. No, I hate being hot so much. I get angry. Yeah, you get like, you perspire, you sweat. Oh yeah, bro. Especially in my ass region. Yeah, you do. You'll sit down on like something and you'll sit up, stand up and it'll be like wet. Yeah, it's gross. I used to be so embarrassed at school. And then the same person said, I want my house to be clean and tidy and ordered.

Yet I cannot keep it that way to save my damn life. Oh, so relatable, dude. Oh my God. I get so stressed. Like I get, I actually want to have a meltdown sometimes when I walk into my house. Cause I want to try and keep it clean and tidy. But then I struggle to do that. And then my autistic side gets really overwhelmed and angry. But then my ADHD is like, nah, you're not going to be doing that today. Yeah, and then you can't focus on what you need to do because your house is messy. Yeah.

But then you go to do the cleaning and you literally start like five tasks at once. And as you're walking past the mop, you grab that when you're on the way to the toilet to grab like the toilet cleaner. And it's like you. You do that like glitch thing where you're like, yeah, we.

Because you're trying to do everything all at once. So you're not doing anything at all. Exactly. And you get frustrated at yourself again. Again, it all comes back to the cost within yourself. Yeah. And this is why all DHDs go so unnoticed because. they appear to like be all good neurotypical kind of. And then on the outside, but then on the inside, the torture is so real. Yeah. It's yeah.

It's really tough. And it gets way worse in my luteal phase. Oh, yeah. That's when I fall off the wagon and all my shit goes out the window. Yeah. And then when you come out of that and you manage to clean. And you literally believe it with all your heart. And so you're like, oh my God, this is me. This is new. This is new me. I'm keeping my house like this. My car's clean. Oh my God, my clothes are clean. They're all tidied. And like, you know, and then.

Two weeks later, you're like, oh, what? Two weeks later. And you seriously believe it. Like, I believe it. I'm like, this is my new life. Like, I'm organized AF. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's what I was going to say. With the ADHD thing, when you're trying to clean and you start five tasks, that's a classic, like.

ADHD thing of not being able to prioritize tasks. Everything feels like a priority. So you go, oh, I can't forget to do that. So start that. No, I can't forget to do that. I do that too. I'm doing like five different tasks and it's just so, it's so not productive, but we're trying to be productive.

The army. Yeah, I also like, that also comes from the fact that I'm trying to do it as quick as I can because I never know when I'm going to run out of steam. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. The amount of times I'm halfway cleaning it.

I just have to stop. And then, like, that mop or something is left half clean for the next, like, three or four weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what? Right now, in mine and Sam, my partner Sam's sink. Oh, no. In the sink, there's a raw egg. in there like in its shell like a raw egg in the sink right now when we got the box of eggs that one had a slight crack in it it's not enough to for it to leak but it had a crack so one of us can't remember which one we both have adhd by the way

grabbed it, put it in the sink just as like, oh, discard that one. That has been in the sink for four days. And it hasn't moved. Oh, my God. For some reason, our brains can't finish that. Like, we need to discard a bit. But it's like, it's just there for now. No, relatable AF. Like I said, I've got five bags of cat shit sitting in my bathroom that I haven't taken down.

Or a whole basket of clean clothes that have been sitting there for a week that needs to be folded and put away. But they're just ending that task. I can't, I can't. I shouldn't say I can't end tasks because I shouldn't tell my brain that. I can, I can, I can. The mind is powerful. But.

We struggle to end tasks. Yeah, finish them. Exactly. And then the autistic side of us just gets so angry and then I just go and lie down and don't do anything. Okay, this one, I think, Paige, you really get this one. I do too, but I think you really do get this one. This is a new person. Wanting to be social but then disliking it and wanting to leave. That one is one of the most. That is the bane of my life. Yeah.

It really is. It's a really hard place to be. Sorry, I don't like all woe is me. Sorry. But, like, it is. Because I, like, look, like I've said a million times, it's my big thing. But, like. I look at people like socializing, doing fun shit. I'm like, oh my God, I want that. Yeah. And then like, I go and do it once in a blue moon and might enjoy it. And then I'm exhausted or like, or I don't enjoy it. I'm like, that was overstimulating. Yeah.

And then I get, yeah. Yeah. Why choose a Sleep Number smart bed? Can I make my sight softer? Can I make my sight firmer? Can we sleep cooler? Sleep Number does that. Cools up to eight times faster. and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side. Your sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night.

It's our Black Friday sale. Recharge this season with a bundle of cozy, soothing comfort. Now only $17.99 for our C2 mattress and base, plus free premium delivery. Prices higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Check it out at a Sleepmember store or sleepmember.com today. Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless and if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month.

Three, no big contrast. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it. Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. upfront payment of $45 for three month plan $15 per month equivalent required new customer offer first three months only then full price plan options available taxes and fees extra see mintmobile.com yeah

I mean, sister, yeah, that whole social thing is so tough because then it ends up in loneliness. Like you feel lonely and like you're, yeah, you're, you don't have any. Like I feel like I don't have any friends, but I do. Like I know I do. Like the real ones.

are always going to be there and I love them. But I also feel, I also then beat myself up because then I feel like a shitty friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. No, I know. It's a hard place to be. It is. I think, honestly, again, a lot of the point of this podcast is... A lot of us neurodivergent people, and I think especially ADHD is because we're like diagnosed and it's only just been discovered. We really do self-hate and like the mental health really does suffer. And that's why.

we are doing this podcast because we just want you to know that you're not alone. And we feel really like angry within our brains a lot too. Are you crying or did you yawn? No. Oh, your eyes are watery. Oh, I think I'm sick. Oh, lovely. Yeah. Yum, yum, yum. This is another one. Being sensitive to small sounds but loving loud music on my headphones. Yes. Oh, yes. Yeah.

I think. If you're not in control of the sound. That's what I was going to say. Yeah, if you're in control, then your ADHD is like, yeah, I love this music and I need it to work because it stimulates my brain. But then another little annoying like electricity buzz or little. hammer that's building sites like 200 metres down the road and you can just hear it. When the house next door was being built, there was just that constant. So annoying, eh? Yeah, I'm with you.

Wanting to read, write or watch something and hyper-focusing on it or wanting to and daydreaming instead. So like having every intention to do it and then, oh, I'm in. That is me. I love exercise but hate getting hot and sweaty. Oh my goodness, me too. I run a lot. Well, not a lot. Far out, not a lot. I'd run. You do. Yeah, I do. But I really struggle. I actually have to do it early because as soon as there's an ounce of sun.

My pace actually slows. It's really quite interesting. I can't run as fast in the daytime when it's hot. If I go before 7am, I'm like, woo, yeah. But I really struggle with heat regulation. Hard out. Sorry, side quest story. Yeah. Did I say this? Yeah, what? Oh, no. What? When, like, one day you invested in, like, a proper, like, over-the-shoulder boulder holder and you shaved 30 seconds off your pee pee. Sorry, bro. You can cut that off. No, that's hilarious.

No, I was wearing the shitty sports bra, which was old and I really needed a new one. And honestly, running with... Brute boobs are so hard. I feel sorry for you gals with big itty, I mean big titties because I got itty bitty ones so I don't really feel them. So annoying. It's like having a big sack in front of you as you try and run. That's what it is. Yeah, it is. And then I decided to finally invest in a proper sports brand.

I shaved 30 seconds off my overall time. Imagine, like, because they don't support it, you're, like, the force is kind of going, like, it's oscillating sideways. Once they were sort of rock hard and solid. Yeah, rock hard. Do you know what? I do relate to it in a little bit sometimes when I'm in my luteal face. Little bits, right? In my luteal face sometimes when my breasts are bigger and they're sore, I'm like...

Ooh, ooh, ooh. It's like Bridesmaids in the opening scene when they're having sex. And she's like, ooh, ooh. There's like a taster into what it's like. And I feel bad for you girls. I'm like, oh my God, this must suck having big. I know. And mine are actually, they're reasonable, but they're still not even like that.

Big, like there's other people out there who have way bigger boobs and I'm just like, how are they doing it? I don't know. I know. So I don't know how we got onto breasts, but here we are. This one, I so get this. I can go with the flow but also need to know when the flow starts and when it will approximately end. That is so true. So relatable. Yeah, I feel that so hard. Let's have a look at another one.

I love reading, but I don't have time for it. But I really miss it. But I need to sleep. Because sleep is so important for us. I so get that. I love my hair being clean, but I hate washing it. Oh, amen, sister brother. That was me this way. I did not wash my hair for a whole week, bro. I didn't either, like, last week when I was sick.

Yeah, I hadn't washed my hair for like 10 days. Because also, it's the task of all the steps and having to do it. But you know what else it is? It's the change of sensory things. Yeah, and then you've got to deal with wet hair or you have to dry it, which is now another 15 to 20 minutes of a task.

adds on to it so i just leave it wet but then i just feel yuck because my hair's wet i know i know oh my god yeah um yeah no i feel i feel that i was puffing in the shower scrubbing your hair yeah it's like when i'm burned out like everything's hard oh yeah yeah i'm an athlete like i am strong and fit and i was like oh every second word is a is a yeah for me

You really do need to take a rest. Like, this is the thing about Paige, and you might relate to Paige, Paige doesn't really rest. Even when she's resting, she's got a laptop on her knees still and she's either drawing something or still working on, like, a client thing. She's a graphic designer, by the way.

Paige never rests and actually never stops. And she goes, I love active relaxing, which is, which is true. And that's a lot of the time ADHD is I think like to active relax. But if you're listening and I think it is still important to try and. stop your brain a little bit because it's not because i'm not exhausted because i get bored from lying there doing nothing yeah yeah so like even things like

I don't know, watching a movie over and over again, maybe that's just at least you're relaxing and you know what's expected. I'm really trying to stress to Paige that she does need to stop somehow because it's getting to the point where I'm like, well, I'm forced to stop. Yeah. So I don't want to get to that point.

I'm forced to stop because then I don't have control over things. So, yes, I'm trying to be better. Yeah, nice. And this, again, comes back to the point of ADHD constantly craving stimulation and autism constantly being burnt out because of it.

It's like they're each other's enemies, but then they kind of help each other out in a weird way and hide each other. But then it's really hard to live with them. But at the same time, I also think a lot of ordinary HDs are bloody geniuses. Yeah, we are. And I think if we had an environment... in the world that was more welcoming to us and less of a capitalistic kind of rat race for money and we were just all you know living in the forest together

I feel like ODHDers and just neurodivergent people in general wouldn't have these same behavioral issues or like traits because it would be nurtured more. Yeah. We're trying to be put into this box that doesn't work for us. And we get given Ritalin. Not to fix it, but to make sure we can go to our job nine to five and keep, like, contributing to the economy. That's so backwards to me. So, yeah. Ellie knew I was in trouble when I went for a video last week and I was watching a movie.

Yeah, it was really weird. And doing nothing else. Which is great. I mean, that is great. But I don't really watch movies because I get bored, for one. Yeah. I like fast-paced TV series. Yeah. Over and done with within half an hour and funny gags, you know, whatever. Me too. Or action.

Um, but I literally had a point where I literally couldn't, I couldn't even really focus on the movie. I was just like lying on the couch looking into nothing. Like, you know, when you're kind of, your eyes glaze over. Yeah. Kind of in that state. She knew I was in trouble when she saw me watching a bloody movie because I don't ever do that. Exactly. But yeah, the aim ideally is to not get to that point.

to avoid the burnout. And this is where therapy comes into it, where you need to have a psychologist that understands the nuances of ADHD and how to like play to both of them consistently and balance them both. It's so hard. It is so hard.

Again, you're probably like, have you got any solutions? And look, not a huge amount. You just need to listen to your body and your mind and your soul. Yeah, and hopefully just you feel less alone and you... hate yourself a little less and knowing why because we used to be like why can't I like not knowing why was really hard yeah and I think being autistic not knowing why makes it even worse yeah like it's so it's yeah

Did you ask me whether I pick my nails while I sit here? I do. Oh, the other day, this is my office, and... Sam, my partner came in and noticed all these fingernails all over the floor where Paige sits during the podcast. And so, yeah, she just picks her nails and just throws them on the floor. But the thing is, I don't even notice that I do them. The only reason I had noticed was them.

You guys brought it to my attention. I'm like, oh, you know, I do. I pick my nails while sitting here. Love it. It's something to do, I guess. Yeah, exactly. There was one here that I, oh, yes, this one. Concerts. Hate people touching me, loud noise, flashing lights, feeling trapped. Love concerts. I'm the same. I love music. Like I do love music and I enjoy live performances.

But I'm the same. I really struggle going to festivals and stuff because it's just an over-sensory nightmare and there's no consistency. You don't know when you're going to get to the toilet next. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God. It's just awful. Hard. I am like the person, like, three songs to go. I'm like, right, we're out of here. There is no way. I'm standing here for two hours waiting for an Uber. Yep. Oh, look, there's another one. Oh, lovely. Yeah. That was a nail.

Nice. In regards to music as well, I really struggle. I love music. I'm musically talented and it runs in our family. But I find that I want music. But I can never decide what I want to listen to. So then I don't listen to anything at all. And often in my car, I'm sitting in silence, which autistic side loves. But then the ADHD side, sometimes I will play a song and I'm like, that's right. I love music. I'm going to start listening to music again. And then I just don't.

Oh, let's have a look what else we got here. I'm a successful and organized administrator for my job. My life admin? Chaos. I mean, I think that's so common for audio HD is to be in control at work and have everything looking amazing and perfect almost. And then just their life being the complete opposite.

This person said, I make really detailed plans for hobbies, like a running plan, but I can never stick to it. Oh my God, that is me. Yeah, that's really frustrating. And you think that you are, you're like, yeah, this is it. And the next day you're like, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah, here's the one I saw. I love getting creative, but hate when it's not perfect. So that stops me even starting. That is me to a T as well. I'm just paralysis, paralysis, paralysis. It's got to be perfect. Even this podcast. It was about a year where.

Paige and I. It was like two. Maybe, yeah. Paige had already made this logo and everything and it took me so long to actually just go, okay, just do it. It's not going to be perfect. It's not going to be perfect. You're just going to have to just sit on the mics and just start talking. And it was the right thing to do. It was just to start.

but it was so hard to start because I care so much. Like I want this podcast to be good and valuable and I don't want to lead people astray. And I've got all these, all these thoughts coming through my head, but honestly, I don't regret just starting it. And there's been an amazing audience. built very quickly and a lot quicker than we thought so thank you for being here thank you um we'll do a couple more um

Wanting to be able to read, but because I forget the page I just read, I give up easily. Oh, you know, that's me as well. Me too. Oh, feels on that. Yeah. Because I do enjoy reading, like, while I'm doing it, and then I... realize like i've gone two pages with reading it but not reading it yeah it's really weird yeah no like you're saying the words in your head but you're not actually absorbing this story yeah yeah 100 not comprehending it

The same person said, you might get this page, wanting to get back into my art, but because there are too many steps to prep, it feels like too big of a task. Oh, yeah. That happens to me where I start prepping it. I get halfway, like almost like ready to start doing it, have prepped, and then I'm like.

I'm over it. Yeah. And then I don't even do what I was doing. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. Um, and then last one, I want to go out and be around people, but need solitude to not get overwhelmed, which is bloody. Yeah. Amen. Amen. That's really tough. Thank you so much for sharing your personal experiences with us. We want to do more stuff like that on this podcast because I honestly believe that the best way for us to learn is to learn from each other.

And Paige and I are not experts by any means. We want to learn from you just as much as you're learning from us. So please come and join our Reddit community. And, yeah, just I guess the message of this one is you're not alone. If you're struggling to find solutions for your audio HD, you're not alone.

because it's still being researched and it's still, people are still trying to catch up with, with all the research. But I would say like, listen to your body and your mind where you can and don't gaslight yourself into like going. but why like what am i saying yeah like where you can control that look after your brain and your body and put your needs first and

I do this where I like go, well, you shouldn't be feeling like that because blah, blah, blah. Don't shame yourself. Don't gaslight yourself. And just, it just is what it is. Like three weekends ago when you guys went to the concert that I was meant to be going to. And then I was like, I just can't. Yeah. I just can't.

Exactly. And like Mike said last week, psychologist, you're not disordered. It's the environment that's making you feel disordered. I honestly think, like I said before, if we were back years and years ago... I know that things would have been different and there would have been restrictions on us, but I think at the same time, if we were just animalistic in our primal nature, I think we'd naturally all just gravitate to our interests and we'd live a really communal...

society and it would work yeah it's too individualistic these days and i think we need support around us and we don't we're trying to play to our strengths but then no one's helping us with our sort of weaknesses and and a lot of like neurodivergent people are creative which is amazing but those sorts of professions like they are harder to make a living off so feels on that yeah they're undervalued yeah they're undervalued yeah it's really annoying because

Art is what makes world and your life enriched. Yes. Like it is what we all share and bond over. Concerts, music, art, all of that. And when COVID happened and all those things stopped, it was quite obvious the gap in like. culture and joy and we want those things but we don't pay those people enough and it's yeah it's such a yeah it is such a bummer but hey you're not alone

Let us know if you've got any feedback from this airport or if you've got any other contradictions that you experienced. Have you related to this? We're going to have more guests coming up in the next few months. We've got some exciting.

ones I think we do actually we have one that's lined up which I'm like I'm not gonna say yet because you know I just but yeah we've got one lined up that um is a very great informative guest I think that you're gonna get a lot out of and I'm really looking forward to Chatting to them. So that's coming up soon. Other than that, have a great week. Join our Reddit. And make sure you click join after being accepted. Sorry about that extra step.

Thanks for listening again, and we just hope this week's episode has made you feel a little bit less alone. Cheers. Thank you so much. Have a great week. Bye. Big news! Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers' new phones at home or work. Wait, we're going on tour? Not a tour. We're delivering and setting up customers' phones so it's easier to upgrade. Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road! No, not a tour bus. It's a regular car.

we use to deliver and set up customers' phones at home or work. Are you a groupie on this tour? We deliver and set up phones. It's not a tour. Oh, you're definitely a groupie. Introducing Store to Door. Switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery wherever you're at. Delivery available for selected... Devices purchased at boostmobile.com.

AI is transforming customer service. It's real and it works. And with Fin, we've built the number one AI agent for customer service. We're seeing lots of cases where it's solving up to 90% of real queries for real businesses. This includes the real world...

complex stuff like issuing a refund or cancelling an order. And we also see it when Finn goes up against competitors. It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard, and if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all. Check it out for yourself at Finn.ai. and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side. Your sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night.

It's our Black Friday sale. Recharge this season with a bundle of cozy, soothing comfort. Now only $17.99 for our C2 mattress and base, plus free premium delivery. Prices higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Check it out at a Sleepmember store or sleepmember.com today.