Hello, welcome to the WSP Anticipate podcast. Today's podcast title is The Hidden Benefits of ESG in the Healthcare Industry. I am Sophia Key, Head of Future Ready at WSP in the Middle East. And in this episode of the Anticipate podcast, I am pleased to be joined by my good colleague, Remy Livastra. Advisory Director of Healthcare and Dr Fatih Mehmet Gul.
Vice President of FACI Care Group and the CEO of FACI University Hospital. Hi, Sophia. Thanks for having me here. You're welcome. Thank you for joining us today. In this episode, we will uncover some of the hidden benefits of ESG in the healthcare industry. We will also discuss the main challenges facing ESG in this important sector and how to overcome them. While ESG is still in its relative infancy, it has been growing popularity in recent years.
the increasing awareness of the need to address the pressing environmental and social issues lead many organisations to a dropped ESG framework. and more and more investors are committing to addressing these issues also. Let's begin with getting this podcast started. For those listening along and are new to ESG,
This acronym stands for Environmental, Social and Governance. And what this stands for in healthcare, historically, this industry has embraced the social pillar efforts, such as caring for patients and creating medications, vaccines and devices that improve human health. health and save lives. We're interested to hear how the environmental and governance pillars are also embraced within this industry.
Let's begin. Thank you, Sophia. I would like to start by repeating for listeners how the World Health Organization defines a sustainable healthcare system as a system that improves, maintains and restores health. while minimizing negative impacts on the environment and leveraging opportunities to restore and improve it to the benefit of the health.
and well-being of current and future generations. Dr. Fatih, as a pioneer in this area in our region, what is your own definition of ESG for healthcare? Thank you, Remy. Thanks, Sophia. And thanks for inviting me to this podcast series. It's my pleasure to share my experiences with you. Just before we start, I think it's better just to also identify who our group is and who I am.
We are one of the oldest healthcare group in the region and have been operating large-scale tertiary hospitals and then several outpatient clinics. and currently operating in Saudi Arabia and then UAE with our large hospital and then the operation. It is a pleasure, actually. I can say this to you with a proud. We have been releasing the CSR report.
which was the previous trending name, actually, the corporate social responsibility, since 2009. And until today, every year, we have a report for that, even though we're not a stock-listed company. We simply like to see the transparency and accountability and continue to provide the reports to all our stakeholders. audiences, patients, and then the partners, so then they can just see what we're doing.
This name, if we look at the name itself, it was CSI before, Corporate Social Responsibility. And unfortunately, there were limitations at that time. And then later on, a new name. ESG has been introduced. E stands for Environment. S for social, G for governance. And actually, this has much larger coverage than the CSR itself because CSR was meant mainly for the social initiatives. And now we can see a larger coverage coming even until the governance part.
which definitely identifies the accountability of it. If you ask me the definition of this one and today's issues, Remy, today we can see a huge problem if we look at the environmental part as the climate change. And today we can simply say that climate change itself is an emergency for us, is a health emergency for us. Because when we look at the news, everyone can see this easily. We have several heat waves unexpected.
floods, unexpected air changes. And all those things are creating lots of difficulties for people. And from time to time, you also even see that even the health care services, unfortunately, stop. Hospitals closed. So then you can see even the accessibility to the healthcare services got negatively impacted, affected over there. itself, the climate change has a huge impact on the health of the community. And then the same thing for the social and governance part. We will come there one by one.
So if you run a company and then if you provide the health care services, definitely you're part of the community. And there are responsibilities with you. You have to also maintain the health of your community, the surrounding. area and then the people. So in this regard, what we believe as the company running an operation to heal the people.
At the same time, we have to make sure that we do not damage the other stakeholders like the environment. We do not damage and create air pollutions and then create more carbons and then the other. in order to manage the healing of the community. We have to keep an eye on such things.
and then measure the impact and manage all those things. It sounds like ESG, sorry to cut in there, but there's a kind of a resolute kind of message there is that ESG actually helps your... helps your work because you have more healthy people and less people to treat. ESG itself definitely but then we're dealing with the global community And when you deal with global community, if you have a population, always there will be someone who will need the hospital, who will need the healthcare.
And today, if you look at the hospitals, especially in Dubai, the highest level of service demand, you will see this one as a delivery. So delivery itself. or the hospitals right so in this regard uh we definitely want to heal the people that's really really good to hear um and i kind of imagine it's a very tricky position to be in is is achieving sustainability when there's so many facets and moving parts within the organization.
and where patient care is kind of the primary priority. So would you be able to explain a little bit more how you do achieve sustainability in the healthcare industry? especially when it regards to carbon emissions and recycling and packaging, that kind of thing. When we look at our operation, there are several phases. First of all, we are a growing organization, and then we keep opening new hospitals.
Whenever we try to get another Greenfield Hospital, we definitely start from the planning of this building. And today, I'm glad to tell you that all our new hospitals are LEED gold-certified buildings, which means that they are environment-friendly buildings. And when you try to plan things from that end, you look at every single item that comes together in a building environment. So then you can start the measurement from this part. Then secondly, when you move into the operation side.
Under the operation, there are many targets and then the categories that you can work on making your operation sustainable. It starts from the kind of material choice that you can communicate with your supply chain. And then it could go to the... energy use, then you can just identify the kind of energy consumption and then energy control methods which will definitely contribute.
And you can also look at, in general, your people and train them how to be sustainable. Because this kind of activities, it starts at the personal level before it goes to the corporate level. And we just want to improve the awareness of our people about the sustainability. So then definitely they can start also applying such things in their life.
So then we can start reporting all those issues at the end. So then we could simply contribute to the sustainability metrics. But we shouldn't forget one thing. Sustainability. could not be achieved only by one company or only by one. We definitely follow the governmental act. And government has their own vision and then missions. We simply want to be part of that and align our initiatives according to these acts and then the announcements, what they have in their vision.
Look, we went through a pandemic and we're still there. And we have learned during the COVID-19 pandemic that well-being is very... important topic. especially for the doctors and nurses. A lot of them went through exhaustion, through burnout, sometimes resignation. Do you think this experience has brought some definitive change or this will require...
more efforts to keep it as a priority. But overall, what is the related social impact on ESG in healthcare for you? When we look at the ESG itself, before we were naming this whole initiative as stakeholder engagement. Stakeholder engagement means you have to deal with all your stakeholders. And this stakeholder, in my view as the CEO of a hospital, starts at the shareholder level. government level, then patient level, which are my clients.
And in addition, definitely I cannot forget to deal with my... staff members and it goes up to the supply chain. So every single category under this stakeholder engagement requires an initiative to deal with them, keep them healthy, keep their well-being, and then continue in their good condition. So as the time when COVID came, we have seen this, the workload and unexpected number of patients have definitely created a huge load on the people.
and huge load on other stakeholders as well. As the management under the ESG responsibility, it was our responsibility to take care of their needs and then make sure that they are all in their good condition and we can continue to work. Because as you know very well, crisis management doesn't only mean to solve the crisis itself. It also means to deal with the time after the crisis. And you have to still keep your allies who will be the one helping you to manage your operation after the crisis.
Some of the organizations did not spend enough time and energy on this one, unfortunately, and especially in our industry. So they were just focusing on that particular time, which was a crisis time. And unfortunately, after this period, they started losing people. In our method, in our operation, we were always together. As a physician myself, I spent lots of time in ICU with my people.
So then with that way, they did not feel lonely because we have seen many operation management teams leaving the hospitals and managing them all from home. Unfortunately, in our industry, it doesn't work like that. You have to be next to your people regardless of the kind of day you have. So with that way, under the ESG, some of the social programs nowadays, we are spending more time actually with our people.
And then we have created a new team called Engagers. And with those Engagers, we create initiatives with our people in order to support their well-being and then make sure that they are still in good condition from the help. from well-being and then from physical health, mental health and all other issues. So then we can continue to enjoy working together for many other years. Very interesting. I think there's so many exciting talking points here.
And I'd like to kind of just understand a little bit more around the benefits of ESG, how you see those within the industry. You know, what's the main driver for doing all of this very corporate sustainable action? If we look at the public health in the last 50 years, we gained lots of benefits. the life expectancy of the people and then the well-being of the people. If we compare them with 50 years ago and today, there's a huge improvement. In order to continue these gains,
and then continue to have additional benefits from the things that we have done in the last 50 years. We have to continue dealing with our environment. Make sure that our environment is healthy and people still can have clean air and then people can have clean areas to live. So then we should not damage our environment and continue in this way. So the healthcare industry will get the benefit and will provide the benefit at the same time.
But besides that, when we continue to deal with our stakeholders, you will see them more engaged. Because today, if you're hiring new people for your hospital, if you work on the ESG matrices, the best tech would like to work in the hospital where there is an ESG. This is something that you can attract the talent. And when I look at my children today, they are definitely selecting the services based on the ESG initiatives the company has.
And soon they're going to be the decision maker. And those children, those new young population will be looking for companies. And then we'll only select the hospitals who are actively working or healthcare industry who are actively working on ESG. And definitely we should not forget the cost-saving part. If you work on ESG, you will be saving a lot of costs from your energy, from your recyclable methods, and then the other things. And patient satisfaction will be there too.
As a manager of a hospital, definitely I see lots of benefits here. And I believe every hospital around us should continue in the same way in order to create a higher impact. Fantastic. It's great to see you paving the way. Very insightful, Dr. Fatih. And I really like the idea of how the new generation will be the promoter of sustainable healthcare for tomorrow. Now, at these days, at WSP, we are working and overlooking a few public and private healthcare.
new project, new hospital, new medical cities. And sometimes I have the feeling that sustainability is not yet a priority in our region. Do you have the same impression? And I know you are a promoter in this region as well with your group on sustainability. But what are the challenges others are facing to promote sustainability in healthcare? How do you see this development for the near future?
Thank you. When we were first working on CSR, Remy, at that time, it was difficult to explain what the CSR is because people were thinking that it is customer service representative. So then it is not that it is CSI corporate social response. And when I was talking to my doctors earlier about the ESG, there is one endoscopic procedure has the same abbreviation in the hospital. And then they were thinking that it is the ESG.
Definitely. I mean, there is an awareness problem. And then it is our job to teach our industry and then teach everyone in this regard. And then we will be able to get the benefit out of that. Especially in our region, my hope and wish comes today with the young people. And these young people, they are the ones pushing this service. And definitely, I believe that with this push, we will see more active programs and more benefits from ESG itself.
Because today, when we have any interview with young people, they are the one questioning the ESG. And they are the one checking our website for the ESG activities. then they will come to our hospital from time to time. I also try to go to the universities and meet with the young people in their courses. So when I meet with them, when I explain them as the company what we do, they're questioning us what we do as the social initiatives in our community.
And they want to see more activities in this regard. So in future, if we do not have such activities, we will not be able to attract the best talent. And young people, when they come to our hospital in the surveys, they are the one questioning how we are managing our recycling. Do we have the solar energy in our hospital? Are we paying enough attention for the... governance rules and regulations. I mean, one of the young patients, she was asking to me the name of our board member.
And that is something amazing. I mean, because she said, I want to send a letter to your board about my experience in your hospital. That's very fine. But then this means that people look for transparency. People want to understand the accountability easily. It is no more our wish or call. It is the community's push and the call. And I believe we will see more and more activities and reports regarding ESG in our region.
It's really good to hear that obviously this kind of adoption and recognition in the industry and with new talent coming through is... You know, it's there because obviously, you know, there's a big shift coming through. It's nice to see that it's becoming more of a business as usual rather than something that. companies add on. I'd like to understand a bit more about the adoption of effective ESG in the industry and how we can accelerate this adoption. Have you got any ideas around this?
In our operation, we have, as I said, too many partners. And when we meet with them, especially with the global manufacturers, they come up with new ideas. With Siemens, we have a new project now. And then within this new project, they are also requesting us to share our initiatives and become part of their initiatives in this regard. So we can see this push coming. The wave is coming over there. And we definitely will be very happy to be partnering.
Those global companies will be pushing us to create more initiatives. And at the same time, we will be dealing with our vendors and with our stakeholders to join us in these initiatives. I can see this approach will definitely help us to accelerate the process and we will see a better adoption. But then, as I was just saying about the young population, I believe they will be the one pushing us. And then we will have no other option but then to apply those things.
Besides this, I mean, point, I can also see in a couple RFPs from the government, they started asking in the pre-qualification time, some of the initiatives and then ESG reports to be... attached to the submission. So this is something very exciting and I'm very happy to see this approach. So from the government, we will see more and more initiatives in this regard. And we will be pushed actually to share more updates for the social programs.
And then for the annual reports to make the governance. better, easier and more transparent in this way. So adoption is happening. As the hospital, our job is to share our experiences as much as we can. So then we will be creating a competition around ESG in our healthcare industry. That's a very good point, Dr. Fatih. You mentioned about governmental RFPs. That's where we expect to see more KPIs in sustainability, energy saving, social impact.
I would like to highlight. Also, in the last years in the region, healthcare has made significant progress in becoming one of the global leading medical tourism hubs. Also, we have made significant progress in patient safety, in quality of care, following some accreditation as a GCI standard.
Do you think the role of those quality metrics and international accreditation schemes are supporting ESG outcomes enough? Why did we start having those accreditations? Let's just start questioning from this part. Accretation, quality accreditation means KPI management. and we measure our performance. against those agreed KPIs, then we come up with a report and we can tell you that we are a highly quality hospital or we have some issues in our quality.
So if you don't measure, you will not be able to manage. So the same expectation for the KPI, we expect our international quality partners to bring the ESG KPIs into that one. So then we will be able to create some of the performance indicators from these points, and we will be able to push the hospitals to make more investment for tomorrow. Otherwise, such things will take some more time as we were...
And at the moment, it is not there. Unfortunately, it is not enough at the moment. And we expect our partners to bring this subject in a more serious way. So then in the long run, our hospitals will be contributing to the healing of their community in many aspects. As the large hospital group operator, we definitely believe in importance of the ESG from many aspects. And we will continue investing this and we will be the advocate of the ESG.
Because we know this very well. There is no good health without a good environment. So then we have to continue having and healing our environment in order to have the good health for our community and for our countries. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Fatih. It's incredible to listen to your commitment and investment in ESG and the healthcare industry. And we're very interested and keen to keep up with you and to see where you go in the future with this.
Thank you so much, Remy, as well. The questions and the insights today have been really fascinating, and I hope our listeners have enjoyed it also. To our audience, thanks so much for listening all the way through today's podcast. Please do leave us a comment if today's discussion has sparked your interest. We're always very interested to hear thoughts and collaboration and ideas within the industry because this is how we really do set the bar higher and push.
push through. And please don't forget to join us in two weeks time for a new talk. Thank you.