#464 Lauren Bright Pacheco with Jofama Coleman

Tens of thousands of people incarcerated in the US have been wrongfully convicted and are being held in captivity for crimes, even as they adamantly maintain their innocence. What's it like to be one of those imprisoned people, and what's it like to be their ally, the one outside committed to fighting for their freedom. I'm Lauren Bride Pacheco, and this

Thanks for having us.

Thank you so Jafama. Let's just start in the very beginning, before any of this happened. What was your childhood and your upbringing?

Like, my parents split when I was I can't even remember what age, but maybe I was around four years old or something like that, six, but I remember it for sure. We moved to Lynnwood with my grandparents and

Did you have ambitions for the future that you can think looking back?

No. As I got older and became a teen, I did you know, I've always wanted to own my own business, for sure. I think that stem from my childhood of doing my own thing, you know, cutting grass, walking the streets of South Central up and down Crenshaw, selling CDs and incense, And I just kind of had a little entrepreneurial type of mentality. So ultimately I got a legit job at Winners, so became a manager you know, when

Wow.

So I mean you had drive, Yeah, yeah, yeah, from a very early age.

Yeah, I did.

So by the time this had unfolded. Had you had any kind of run ins with the law?

I mean I have. I mean, so when I was a kid when we were living and live where we eventually moved to South Central, and that's when things started to take a turn. Culture there was different, the environment was different, and you know, for period I managed to avoid becoming a product to my environment. It wasn't until I went to high school that I started associating with you know, game members, taggers or whatever. It became like a norm for me. I got involved with tagging crews,

But there's also if that's your environment, yeah, there is a very real social aspect to it.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, no.

You want friends, you want a group, you want a sense of belonging.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

We did mention in the intro that the murder occurred in the Westmont section of South LA and that it was an area referred to as Death Alley for a reason. Oh yeah, just paint a picture of what the environment was like in two thousand and three.

Like I don't want to say it was a war zone, but you had to know the streets in order to know where to go and where not to go at what specific time and stuff like that, because it was bad. You know, it was bad enough for me to feel the need to have a gun. For sure. It's a true ghetto.

It wasn't the kind of place where people said stuff like this never happens, No, And so that really takes us up to the night that all of this happened. But at that point, you're twenty, and are you a new father or soon to be father at that point soon.

To be so, so eventually I moved to Long Beach. You know, really Clint, my act up, had a really good job, got married, planned our daughter. Like it was just kind of like me creating that that picture of a family and environment that I've always waned and it actually become in reality because I really kind of had my stuff together and so things were falling in a line. And even when they accused me of this crime, you know, I really didn't take it seriously because I guess you

There's no way to find an innocent man guilty.

Yeah, I was naive. And then when it happened and I realized how many other people it was. I was dumbfound it. I was like, really says the system was just amazingly flawed in understatement.

So that takes us, as I said, to the night where all of this happened. And May tenth, twenty oh three, sixteen year old named Jose Roblas and his family were hosting a backyard barbecue at their home on one hundred and first Street, and around nine o'clock, he decides to walk to the liquor store, but on the way there, he ends up getting shot multiple times in what was basically described as a drive by shooting. He ends up

Yeah, that's exactly how it laid out. I heard a murder, like I didn't even know who this Chino guy was, you know, I course heard of the name after the fact. And then when I even when I heard that people were assuming I was responsible, I still really didn't take it seriously, Like I just I just had a naive believe like if you didn't do it, you'll you'll be fine.

And not only that you had an alibi.

Yeah I did.

You were in a Blockbuster video store that night. It's your wife.

Since it was a Saturday, like on my Saturdays, which is like typically my days off, like Saturdays and Sunday, I usually do something. I usually either go to six Flags, Disneyland, the movie theaters out with a bunch of friends. Those just my social circles. And so fortunately, somewhat fortunately for me, I was with my friends pretty much throughout the day. Initially I was planning on going to movie theaters. I

So tell me the second that suddenly you realize that you're the person being named.

So when I took it a little more seriously, I was at work one day. I don't know how long after the incident. It had to be within the first week or two, you know, I'm not completely sure. Two detectives came to my job and I asked us they can speak with me. I was like, sure, why not? And I knew what they were there for at that moment, and but it was it's somewhat of a odd story. So my supervisors were really cool with me. And I

Oh Lord.

When we discovered they really were there for me, he turned red and was dying. I mean he was like crying. He was like, go to the back and talk. I'm like, oh wow. So I went to the back and spoke to him. I actually didn't feel uncomfortable speaking to him, like I just still had that, you know, I mean, naive position, like you'll be fine. You didn't do anything. So I told him as much as I can remember,

You had receipts also.

So I don't clean my car. Well, I didn't clean my car every day, so I still had the little receipt bought up like I'm under the seat, and I was like, oh, here's the receipt. Here you go, blah blah. But the problem with well, it shouldn't have been a problem at the time. But do you know what they said in response of me having the receipts and you know, my story lining up with others, They took the position.

And at the same time, their eyewitness accounts are morphing and changing and suddenly boom, you come into focus. Even though these eyewitness accounts were for people who were almost a football field away from the van that passed by.

Yeah, did you.

Was there anything that ever linked you to what they described as a white van with brown paneling.

Nothing, never on the bait white man, never been in a white band, anything like that.

I mean it probably never go in a white van.

Yes, yeah, traumatized. I mean it was so ridiculous. I mean one witness went from saying it was two male Hispanics and then name individuals that are Hispanic, and then after having conversations with other people, was like, Okay, the driver's black. The driver looked like this person. Then eventually years later other driver was him. You know what I mean?

It was Yeah. I loved that it was originally two Hispanic men, then two black men, and then I'll exploit the difference one of beach.

Yeah, exactly.

Just crazy. Okay. So ten months after the shooting, actually they reinterview one of the eyewitnesses and for the first time now he names able Soto as the gunman and then basically says that one of the victim's brothers said that you were the driver. So who is he to contradict what he said?

Yeah, he took the position I have to go along with what he said.

And when do they come back to you, did they bring you in for questioning before you're arrested.

No, they did not. They just charged me and I was sent to county jail and fighting murder. And you know, I was paranoid actually because I knew. I was so paranoid because they were charging me for murder. I knew I was in this, and I knew that they had lying witness they may have to have lying witnesses against me. I was like, what could they be doing? So I was fearful. I was like, Oh, what if they're trying to frame me? What if they're trying to put a

Hell you weren't wrong.

Yeah.

Wait, when was the light detector test that was in between?

That was when I was That was that was when I was out. Yeah, I was out. It was after they first came to interview me at my job.

Okay, right, so after the job interview, before the v yes, and you went voluntarily to go take a light detect your test.

I did all things that make sense in the mind of an innocent person. You know, why wouldn't you answer questions, Why wouldn't you go in if you're innocent, you have nothing to hide, and then you realize that anything you do, anything you say, is going to be used against you. So what was that light detector test? What were the results? What did they claim were the results?

So we discovered this after the fact too, Like there's a protocol they were supposed to follow, Like they're only supposed to interview for how long?

Just I don't remember, less than ten minutes or the results aren't going to be inconclusive.

Yeah, they interviewed me for like I don't really remember.

It was a while, Yeah, before they hooked up the miss exactly. And we actually didn't get to see the video of the machine. We got to see the hour and a half interview leading up to hooking up the machine, and as soon as they hook up the machine, the tape stops.

Which is interesting.

Because the report says that you were deceptive, but it doesn't specify as to what, you know, what did he say that that?

And so I'm wondering, like what that could have been.

Yeah, you know, you have your own speculation as to what it could be.

Yeah, I do remember, like they asked me like impossible trickery questions, right, Like they was like, did you have anything whatsoever to do with the murder of Jose Roblesz And I was right about to just answer no, but he stopped me before I asked he no. He goes, uh, before you say yes or no when I say anything whatsoever? I mean, like this is how I remember, Like I mean, you're a driver, things got out of there, you're a shooter, you sent somebody, or you think you know who did it?

So yeah, And it sounds like the tape running out wasn't the only excuse. The word but jack assery with with tape issues because the surveillance tape at the Blockbuster video is all scrambled when they try to use it in your defense, yeah, but yet miraculously fixed when you go back, yeah, to use it.

We're talking about an investigator, detective investigator who has been on a force for X amount of years prior to this case. We're talking about a prosecutor that's been a prosecutor for X amount of years before my case. Excuse my friends, but there's no way in hell that they do not know how to operate the proper system to see this video tape. Clearly no way, you know. So under the crowd control of the DA at trial, they

Leading up to the trial. How confident were you.

That's hard to say because like, I was confident, but I was I was kind of worried at the same time because at the end of the day, like, I don't know, well, at the time, I didn't know what they were going to try to present a trial, you know, I was still like, dang, what if they try to frame me? What if they try to do this. I just didn't know what they were going to do. But

In terms of who was supporting you in that courtroom. I was would assume that your wife, Evelyn was there.

During I mean we were young, she was young. I'm not making excuses, I mean she was there, but you know, at the end of the day, this case took a toll on everybody, so it kind of it kind of caused her to kind of I mean her being that age dealing with this type of stuff was just.

She also had a new.

As well and then trying to figure things out on her own out there. Because when I was out there, like I was really a go getter, like like I believed in the idea, like if she didn't want to work, she didn't have to work. It was my responsibility to make sure I provided. But she was mature enough and and and loving enough. We're like, no, like, I feel like there's a point where we might where we might struggle.

And uh, but again that's that's the ripple effect of the injustice and of the cruelty as well, because it's not like you had planned for something that's catastrophic to happen, but you're suddenly ripped out of your life. Yeah, you're a new husband, new father, and now your family is just left to fend for themselves basically exactly.

So everything took a toll on her. We ended up breaking up, and you know, she she was she was there and she wasn't you know, so.

So take me back to the trial. As you're sitting and you're watching it unfold, it must have been just beyond disbelief.

It was, I mean, what made it really difficult? Like when I was found guilty and I heard those words like we did the jury find the defendant of Koma guilty of first degree pre made it any murder? Like I'm just froze and I kind of dropped my jaw, like what just happened? And then it I don't know, I just wasn't there. I wasn't there. Then when I had to go to the holding tank and call my brother and whomever. I can't remember who I called, it was worse when I had to hear myself tell other

You know, the word using the word lost, that's that's the first time I've honestly heard that. And you lost a lot, yeah, in terms of your your life, But it wasn't just guilty. It was you lost years, two decades.

When I first lost my case, I was like, how am I going to deal with this now? Because I knew the reality of this disappeal process and all this other stuff that's years down the line. So now I'm like, I'm going to be in prison for some time now, Like what do I do? You know, So I'm dealing with the fears of that. And then the worst thing for me was my daughter. You know, she was planned, you know what I mean. I didn't want her to

Did she visit you.

Not In the beginning, Like my then wife was dealing with whatever, she was dealing with it, so she didn't bring her. I was in her in her life somewhat, But then I was dealing with all this stuff with being in prison, So I wasn't even as present as I probably could have been as far as calling and stuff like that. I was just in a mentally in

And I've read that she became she became your purpose and your motivation to stay strong.

Yeah, that's what kept me going.

I think there is something really powerful about the fact that her age represents, you know, represented for that period of time, the amount of time that you had served.

So, yeah, she's nineteen. I've been in prison nineteen years because she was literally born when I was locked up.

That must have been just you know, there's the power passage of time, which I'm sure moves at a very different pace when you're inside, but then seeing her grow up is just a constant reminder of how much time had gone by.

Yeah. True, true. I mean like even when I talked to her about like to my friends and while I was incarcerated, like the way I talk about her, I didn't realize it until someone brought it up. To me like a few weeks ago, and Abel brought it up too, you know, because I talked to him about my daughter, and I talked to people about my daughter. She's like three years old, but I could. I can't help myself, right, And then when people meet her, they're like, oh shit, she's an adult.

You know, she'll always be your baby. It doesn't change.

Yeah, So there's that element of things.

There were.

There were two people that spoke at Joe Foma's parole board hearing. One was his wife and one was his wife's sister, and they said he did a better job raising his daughter from prison than most men do on the outside.

And I saw that.

I mean I saw that right away when Jofama and I first started talking and he learned I was an educator, where we started talking about Joscelyn schooling and her goals and everything like that.

So yeah, I mean that was like one of my one priorities, like be present, figure out a way to be involved in her life and let her know that I'm there, that I love her. So we talked, we talked, we talked, we talked, gave her advice, you know, I mean, she respected my input and I just showed her I was present that I cared, you know. I sent her pictures, I sent her money, I sent her I sent people to go buy her gifts. And when I didn't have it, I called on some of my closest friends, Hey, my

And I remember you telling me about you would have family visits with her and she would just come and just snuggle with you.

Yeah, and that meant the world to me, Like it made me feel like a father. Like that meant a lot to me.

You know, there's an expression that prison either makes makes you better or makes you better. How did you navigate that?

I mean, to be honest, there were times I was bitter. There was times I was angry, There was the times. There was times I wanted to give up. There was times I to put I'll put it this way this case. It took so many of my tears as ridiculous, and it got to the point where I said it doesn't deserve my cheers anymore. And you know, I just decided to fight and figure it out. So when I when I came across obstacles, I just went in my own minds, how do I deal with it? How do I around it?

And I mean, you didn't just understand it. You became your own defense attorney, and you, acting as your own lawyer, filed a federal petition for writ of habeas corpus and you file that in twenty ten and you have to wait five years and it's denied. I mean days, weeks, months, years of waiting only to have it denied. What is what did that do to you?

That was That was also like I had these moments where it was like always the worst, like when I got found guilty, when I found when my oppelart attorney found the appeal, and I was confident, like, hey, they

It was just a lot how how And that's that's I mean, I don't mean to belabor the point, but that's so much to handle. And and was was there You've spoken about low points, but was there a moment where you thought I can't do this anymore? And and where did you find the strength to move forward?

So honestly, I mean, the main motivation was my daughter, Like if I give up, I'm giving up on her.

So another year, five years pass, another five years go by, and in twenty twenty, forces finally start to align on your behalf. Enter Jessica Jacobs, a mother of four and a teacher from Topanga Canyon with a taste for binging true crime on Netflix. Jessica, just tell me a little bit about you and what led you to reach out to Ellen Eggers.

When I was watching the Netflix show.

I was watching a ton of Netflix because it was when we were on the initial lockdown for COVID, and I was just watching show after show and came across this one that was talking about wrongful convictions, and this woman, you know, Ellen Eggers, was so passionate that I could just feel.

Her energy through the screen.

And you know, this is one of my out of the box things. I'm sure a lot of people are compelled by what they see on TV, but I don't know that a lot of people would push pause, Google her and call her, which is what I did. And then thankfully she is one of those type of people who would take the call. And so in the beginning I was just helping her kind of with technology, you know, and then eventually she would have me. She taught me how to do summary notes from transcripts and so I

I'll just hand it off to her.

And so so when I started looking at Joe Fama's case and seeing like, what a straightforward case of innocence. It was more so than the other two that I had looked at in my life.

I started saying, Okay, you got to take his case. You got to take his case.

I mean, it was two years of us working before Ellen even considered taking the case. And when she there was one moment when she first considered it. I said to her, let's go talk to the brother of the victim, Jesse Roebliss.

Now before that, didn't you get the murder book.

I think it was before that I got the murder book, because otherwise, if Ellen has already was already kind of on board, she probably would have gone to court instead of me. So I think you're I think you're right that that happened first. So Joe Fama, I think when I won. One of the times I spoke to him on the phone, he said, hey, I won this this appeal and the Superior Supreme Court, and I was like,

Oh man, I remember those calls and.

You physically went to represent him.

Well.

Eventually before that, I was making calls to the DA's office regularly, like just pushing, pushing, pushing, like they were like, okay, just let her in here, social shut up. And so I went in and looked through the whole DA file in front of one of the prosecutors. And as I'm looking at it, I'm taking pictures of things. And then I go home and I and Jafama calls and I go, Okay, here's all the things I found, and he's like okay, but we're still missing this.

And so we went to court. Did you write a motion to get ables discovery or how did that? Did we even get that court date?

The court day was already established to basically for the court just to check the status of how things were going right, And then we were there and the just was kind of giving me a hard time. I felt that she gave me a hard time because she got overturned by an inmate, you know, pro per person that basically told her she was wrong, and the higher course agreed and then you shined in was like, well what about this and that, blah blah blah, and then she kind of softened up and got on board.

Yeah.

So the first time I went to court in person, it was just to pick up some documents the CDs I had to pick up, so that was that was no big deal. It was kind of exciting being in a courtroom. But the second time, where Jofama was actually at the hearing via video, I also joined via video.

And in that hearing.

Is where I said to the judge, your honor, they've given us all of the all that they have. However, we also know on Jofama's case, but they also have Abel's case and they're refusing to give that to us, and we think we should and so I argued that in front of the judge and she agreed and said, yeah, give them as Able's murder book too, and that's where

I didn't Joe Fama and I.

Didn't believe that still, and so that's when I befriended the original homicide detective and said, how can we get more?

I know there's more, and he.

Invited me to go with him to the homicide bureau, and sure enough, there was more.

You're listening to Wrongful Conviction with Lauren Bright Pacheco. You can listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Now, I have to just stop for a second and say that this is one of my favorite aspects of this story and of your friendship, and that is the power that getting involved actually can have. You've said that lots of people are moved when they watch or hear something, but very

I didn't know what to makeup. I was like, I don't know where this is going to go. But I will say this, like, and I think I can speak for a similarly situated people. You know, when you have an outside advocate, it gives you hope, you know, I mean, it gives you that thought process. Okay, maybe something good will come of this, because when we're doing it on our own, it's just so so hard, you know, because

Now, Jessica, you're a mama. For you run a school, Yeah, it's you describe it.

For me because because okay, I guess I run an educational program that is a hybrid of unschooling and early college. And the unschooling portion is where the learners learn what they want, when they want, how they want, and if they want to patient a lot of them at the pace they want, and a lot of them have decided that they want to learn about the law because they were so inspired by you know, I would say, oh,

We will link with that at the end of the episode as well, because I was on that site yesterday. It's pretty damn impressive. But my point is also that you had a fairly full plate in terms of so but where where did you get that initiative that I'm gonna I'm going to spend a lot of my time and effort and focus helping an absolute stranger.

Hm I think, hmm, that's a great question. I was.

I think I was bored during the pandemic because I didn't have students coming in person as often. They still did occasionally, but not as often. So I think I had the pandemic opened up the door for my first conversation with Ellen, and I'm learning more even more now that I've been involved in this world. Is how many innocent people are stuck behind bars without any outside advocate, without any attorney.

And if I have the ability to do it, it would be.

Just dishonorable for me to not do it, I guess, And so I've made time and create brought it in so it's a part of my program so that that you know, that makes time, and you know, my family members help, and the students help, and then even the students' parents want to help. And I feel like the more we can tell people that you don't have to be a lawyer to help somebody, the more we can help people,

Ellen Eggers is the same way.

I mean, I think every single I would say, every other conversation that I had with her over the course of course of four years, she said, I'm not doing this anymore.

I can't take another case. This is too much work. And then she's got this later. Yeah, yeah, exactly, she can't. She can't.

So we talked about clearing the hurdle of getting the murder books, and once you get to see Abel and Jafama's side by side, things become very clear. But talk to me about getting the witness to recant, because that's fascinating and something that neither you or Ellen Eggers thought would happen the way it did.

I thought it was going to happen that way. But that was just in my my naivety. I had no reason to think that I shouldn't have thought that, but I did, And so I thought well, it can't hurt to ask him. And so I asked Ellen if she would go with me because I couldn't go into a prison on my own. And she reluctantly agreed, and I kind of just teased her.

I was like, it'll be a girl's trip, you know. And we talked the.

Whole way about you know, because it's a long drive, five hour drive each way. She's like, this is such a waste of time. This is ridiculous. And we walk in and we told Jesse who we were and he didn't even like look at us. He just looked at the table, saw a piece of paper, grabbed a pen and wrote down it wasn't Jofauma and handed over the piece of paper. And I looked at Ellen and I

So that piece of paper ended up being well worth the five hour trip each way. Yes, because in January of twenty twenty three, Ellen Eggers presented a claim of innocence on behalf of Coleman and Soto to the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Conviction Integrity unit, and luckily you had a progressive and good person in position of power there.

I couldn't be there the day he was least because I was traveling, And I remember just being so happy to be able to touch you.

I'm like, oh, you're real, I can actually I can touch you.

So you didn't even meet physically until after Jofama was released, right, That's amazing. But you very much knew one another at that point.

Yeah, very much.

So, Yes, we ended up in our you know, I was talking to Jofama so much, mostly via the tablet, but on the phone too, that when I'd have problems in my life, I'd be like, oh good, jo Fama, let me tell him all about it.

So he ended up being a confidant for me too.

And then on February twenty seventh, twenty twenty four, the Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge William Ryan granted Coleman's joint habeas petition for both you and able Soto, vacating your convictions, dismissing the charges and declaring you actually innocent. That must have been like a whole nother day of freedom on many different levels.

It was, you know, the justice sign with the statue, you know, the justice sign with the little you know, when he when he declared me innocent, I was like, Okay, now that justice size has some weight, you know, because before, you know, I used to use poetic words like when I write to certain people, and I was like, if Justice was the person it would be frowning upon this situation. Like Justice was smiling at that day because you know,

What is your life like today?

Still a bit overwhelming, It's a big adjustment, Like I'm not gonna basically fake the phone and act like it's peaches and creams. It's still an adjustment. I mean I was I've been away from civilization for you know, nineteen years, and it's like this is a lot to adjust to. I mean, I actually dealt with some anxiety when I first got out, but I'm getting better and it's a huge adjustment. It's going to be a process for sure, but I'm enjoying every moment.

And how is your daughter?

She is great. I mean I'm even dealing with the health. She loves me to death. But you know, when you have this person wanting your attention and this person wanting your attention and this person wanted to hang guys like you got to create that balance, you know, and make them all feel appreciated. So I'm juggling that. We have our ups and downs sometimes, but for the most part, it's pretty good.

What what does your friendship mean to both of you? And what you admire most about the other?

You know, I think I have a son who's exactly the same age as Jofama's daughter, and so having that common thread but knowing how different it was that I got to actually raise my son. I'd say what I admire most about him, Gosh, there's so many things. I definitely admire his role as a father, but then seeing him on the outside navigating everything he just described, watching him learn like he's an amazing learner. And then I'd say, probably the biggest, biggest thing I'm impressed with is his

Is now you're you're on the hot seat, sir. What is your friendship with Jessica mean to you? And what do you most admire about her?

It means everything. I mean when I see her, I see my own freedom. You know, She's really tenacious. That's what I admire most about her and her her way of thinking. Her out of the box thinking is very effective on many fronts. So overall, that's what I can say I admire both most about her.

You know, you've mentioned that fighting injustice is a shared passion for both of you, and I completely agree with you, Jessica when you say, once you see it, you can't unsee it, and it's your more obligation to fight for what's fair. You know, Jafama, I read a quote from you, and I think I actually pulled it off of petition that one of your family members started for you. But you said that I'm a black male who grew up in a single parent home with no wealth or platform.

Rug, exactly, And that's that's why these situations are are are too rare, you know, because there are other many other blacks and Mexicans that are in prison for crimes they did not commit, or you know, even if if they were somehow involved in the crime, they didn't get justice in a sense of fair sentencing, you know what I mean, compared to their other people. So it's like the system is just as minorities different.

I feel, is that part of what drives you, if not entirely what drives you and your desire to be a lawyer.

Yeah, it actually is. But also because like I'm also somewhat of a I guess you can say self critical at times, but after going what going through what I've gone through, I kind of actually believe in my abilities to become an attorney.

You're both incredibly inspiring. I really appreciate the time you took with us.

Thank you appreciating here, Thank you.

Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the links in the episode description to see how you can help. I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wardis, as well as our producers Annie Chelsea, Kathleen Fink, and Jackie Pauley. This series is produced, edited, and hosted by me Lauren Bright Pacheco. Our senior producer