#450 Lauren Bright Pacheco with Michelle Morrison

Tens of thousands of people incarcerated in the US have been wrongfully convicted and are being held in captivity for crimes, even as they adamantly maintain their innocence. What's it like to be one of those imprisoned people, and what's it like to be their ally, the one outside committed to fighting for their freedom. I'm Lauren Bride Pacheco, and this

Thank you, Lauren Hi, thank you for having.

Us wonderful listen. Before we get into the event that left you in prison for thirteen years, I just want to find out a little bit more about you, Mischae as a person, your upbringing, where you grew up, what kind of a child you were, and your mom's here to keep you on us.

Well.

I grew up in Atlanta. My mom and dad were married till I was five. I had a lot of energy. I was more like a tomboy. I loved to hang out with my uncle Joey. That was like my big brother. I would ride a scooter, be in the trees, be everywhere. I just I was real active. I had a lot of energy.

In school, I was a happy kid.

What made you happy? What was your favorite music? What were your favorite things to do.

Ooh, my favorite music Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson and my favorite thing. When I became I was like, how old was I when I was in Girl Scouts? I think I was in the fourth or fifth grade. But that was my favorite thing. My mom was the leader and I got to do everything. It was like I was the mini leader because she was in charge. So I had We went to the zoo to spend the night. We went, we had sleepovers. It was fun selling cookies. Yeah, that was really fun.

I'm a Samoa girl and nuts.

Yes.

So by your teens, from being a Girl Scout, you kind of took a bit of a different path and some of the decisions that you were making at the time might have put you at odds with your mom.

Well, the area that we was in, I really didn't care for my school.

I just didn't like my school. It wasn't really productive.

I had friends that went to some of the better schools, but I couldn't go there first because I didn't stay in the area. I didn't have the address, and then my mom couldn't take me there because it was far. So I kind of just didn't like school at all. I'd be the person that to get finished with my work and disrupt everybody in class then get in trouble.

Was that difficult for you, Cynthia, I mean, having been the girls Scout leader to kind of having a rebellious daughter on your hands.

Yeah, needless to say, it was. But I had two daughters, and it's amazing how you can have two children and they can grow up exactly the same and then go in different directions. So on one hand, I had one daughter that was doing everything in school and loved school, and the other hand, another daughter that was rebelling and was just kind of going through that teenage stuff. A lot of it was because we didn't have a lot of

What was the age difference? The age difference between you and your sister.

Michelle years she's older than me.

You know, sometimes it's it's easier to go the opposite direction of an older sibling, particularly if they're hitting all the high notes. It's a little easier to not follow in their steps sometimes. How old were you when your parents got divorced.

I was five, and that took That took a toll on me because I was a daddy's girl and we.

Were super close, super close.

So when they did get divorced, you know, I understand what was going on. He moved to another state and I had to wait till summer breaks or Christmas breaks to see him.

So, yeah, they're right there. You know, that hurt me real bad. You know, I wanted my dad.

So by the time you got your teens or obviously have different priorities than your older sister and a bit at odds with your mom. But what were your goals, your thoughts about the future.

I wanted to I always wanted to work in a medical field from when I was young. It went from a brain surgeon to a heart surgeon. So when I realized I'm not doing at at school, to a pediatrician. Then it went to an rin and that was the final thing that I was going to do, but I ended up enrolling in the CAB tech for a licensed practical nurse. I went almost a year and I couldn't stay focused because I was dancing in the nightclubs and I was so tired trying to go to work and

And so that takes us about to the time when this unfolded. How was that time period in terms of your relationship, Cynthia, were you guys strained before this happened.

I was a little disappointed about the things that she was doing. I even remember in my Bible study group we were giving prayer request and I mentioned pray for my daughter because she grew up in the church. She was acculate, she loved the church, and now she's taken

Absolutely, And in terms of that adversity before this incident, had you had any substantial runnings with the law.

Well, I had got on probation and end up going to juvenile for not going to school. As my I guess my punishment, they sent me to a wolderness camp where I had to go for I think it was six weeks where I had to go stay out into the woods and it was so horrible and I remember getting bait up by jiggers.

Oh it was. It was terrible. It was terrible.

And I told my mom, I said, oh, I'm not I'm going to school. I'm not going to do this no more. Like my mom was like okay, okay, okay. I was like I'm not gonna do it no more. So that's what happened.

Then, in retrospect, those bug bites probably didn't seem as bad as what ended up happening. So take me to the night of June eleventh, two thousand and seven, when all of this went down. Seems almost like a series of bad decisions that snowballed.

Well.

So, while I was dancing, I did abuse pills. I had a pill habit. They make you hang around people that you think are your friends, and really the whole time they're not your friends. It's the worst thing ever in the world. But I had a friend that I've been knowing for years, and she sold drugs and she had an escort service. We've been friends, probably before I start dancing. We were friends and we were cool, like she never owned the vehicle. I always give her rides

And I drove her there.

She used my phone acting like her phone was dead the whole time. I drove my car with my driver license plates retro to my name.

Everything is to my name.

I mean, if I was going to commit a crime, I would never let her use my my phone and traced me. I would have never drove my car to register straight back to my house. But once again, when you're on heavy pills, none of that matters. You're not even really paying attention what's going on in the car. You're just driving. So the two guys get out the car and I guess they go in. Me and her

Shot what?

So he's had one foot in, one foot out. I'm dropped about to drive off, and he's like, I can't leave my boy. He get out the car. I ended up leaving because I didn't even know the man was dead. I didn't know nothing.

How did you find that out? The next day?

So when I was going to go pick up my contacts from the eyeglass place, the GBI pulled me over and said they wanted to talk to me.

So that's when you first realized that you were caught up in all of us, that you were now part of the investigation.

It took me to the police station and they had me and my friend up there for a few hours. They impounded my car and they let us go.

And when did you loop your mom that all of this was unfolding.

Actually, I didn't find out for quite some time because my father, who was living in Alabama, was killed in a car accident on June seventh, two thousand and nine. So I was preparing a funeral, driving back and forth to Huntsville, trying to secure his belongings and stuff. So I was wondering why when Michelle came to the funeral, she didn't have a vehicle, and she just told me

So you turned yourself in willingly.

Yeah.

It was right after the incident, and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do the right thing. I don't have no reason to run.

What was that time period like for you, from the time you got the knock on the door of Cynthia. Did you think that it was just a formality and you'd go in, get questioned and leave.

No. I thought it was serious. Matter of fact, I begin to make in preparations. I went to a bondsman to try to prepare for bail. I got things set up. They told me that with those types of charges that it would probably be serious and a very high bail. I mean, I was scrambling trying to make sure that I could try to not let her go to that awful jail. All the things I saw on TV and going people going to jail and getting killed. I mean, all kinds of things was running through my head.

And so Michelle, what was going through your head when you walked in to turn yourself in?

Well, I was so afraid. I was so afraid.

And I sat there for about a week inside of the county jail till I got my bond here, and I was scared. I had the same perception of prison that my mama did, Like I couldn't imagine my self in there for five minutes, let alone thirteen years. So I was nervous. But thankfully God had me with a good bunkie because we were praying together and stuff.

How did the detectives treat you initially off the bat? Did you have a lawyer when you were first interrogated?

Nope, And I can honestly say the GBI were very, very, very nice to me. They were trying to help me out, like they wanted me to help them. They wanted my co defend. But I didn't know where she was. She ran, she was on a run. I couldn't help you find her because she was running for me too. I don't know where she was.

So yeah, I think there was even an America's Most Wanted episode about her.

Yeah it was.

And when we went to court for her bond hearing, I brought members from my church. We had three rows of people that stood up for her, and the judge ended up giving her a bond of one thousand dollars cash. When I called back the bond's company and said, sir, I don't need you. My daughter just got one thousand dollar cash bond and I can pay that, he said, lady, you're crazy. Nobody gets it. I said, I'm telling you, that's what the judge says. My daughter's walking out. And

So those two years must have been kind of like having raincloud following you because you're still not in the clearer. And so when did the plea deal first come on the table? What were you offered and who offered it?

I was offered five years, and that came from the DA at the time. I was offered five years to turn state on the other two guys that were there.

So I had two lawyers.

I had the lawyer that I hired that I kind of knew, so I kind of trusted him more. And then he hired on another lawyer as a partner, so it was like I had doctor Jeko on Hide.

The lawyer I hired, he was like, we're gonna fight. You're gonna win this.

La la la la.

The lawyer that I didn't hire, he was like, I was a prosecutor before. Take no five years. We know you didn't do nothing, but you was there at the scene of the crime. This is Georgia. Their laws are crazy. So I'm having these two people in my head at this time, and I'm like, oh my god, I don't know Georgia laws. I ain't never been no serious trouble like this. So I'm like, I'm finna fight for my life. That's all I seen, That's all I can see. I'm finna fight.

Well, I can imagine if you got a thousand dollars bond, you probably felt that roll the dice. You're innocent, you didn't do it, So why would you take five years and testify against people when you weren't at the scene of the murder.

Well, I, like Michelle, did not understand the system. I wasn't clear when they said five years would she be saying five years to murder, and.

It seems like, Michelle, you were getting really conflicting legal advice heading into that trial too.

I wasn't.

Also, I had just enrolled into Georgia Perimeter for the summer course. I was going to start the RIN program. So in my mind, I didn't know they was going to drop my charge to a list of charge. They did not explain the five years. I'm thinking, I'm still gonna have this murder charge. I'm like, I ain't gonna be getting to college with his murder charge. These are the thoughts going in my head. So I'm like, I'm trying to go back to school and do the right thing.

But that said, by the time you're heading into trial, you're making steps to get your life back into order and take me to the trial. What did it feel like sitting in that courtroom and how did you feel things were going for you? Michelle?

Oh, well, I can remember. I remember bits and pieces of it. Being so scared. I still was abusing appeals. I wasn't really in my right mind. I just wanted to be numb.

I'm so scared. I really didn't want to be there.

So the whole time, I'm just listening to the case, and I'm listening to all the evidence against my co defendents, listening to their extensive criminal history, and it felt weird, like I didn't belong there. I just felt crazy the whole time.

And it's two years after any event happened, and so it's April of twenty oh nine, Cynthia. Were you there during the trials?

I was there every day. Me and one of my prayer partners sat there in the courtroom, listened to all the testimony. And that's why it was so devastating, because the testimony never really had anything solid, and you think for somebody to get a life sentence, you would have

Wow, and he was giving you a heads up because I don't even think that could have prepared you guys for the verdict. So take me to the exact moment that the verdict is delivered, Michelle.

Oh, well, they delivered my co defense verdict first, and.

I was like, oh god, they said guilty.

So then when they came back to mine and said guilty, I felt like I felt like I've been stabbed, and it's just I was shocked. I didn't know what to do, what to say, and the judge looked at me and he was like, I tried to tell this young lady, you know he please file your appeals like you can tell everybody felt so bad. I remember a lady in the jury. She was crying. I guess they didn't realize. I don't even know if the jury was told I

Were you sentenced right there?

And then yeah? So it was right there and then life plus five years.

Yes he said life plus five, but I'm gonna suspend the five but still life in Georgia. At the time, she was convicted as a minimum of thirty years.

That's a long time, so thirty before parole, right.

Before they even look at you.

When I look, I heard my mama crying. I've never heard her cry like that before, so that hurt me more than anything because she's such a strong woman, and hear her cry just brought my heart.

So you're twenty six years old, but you're still your mom's baby, Cynthia. I can't even fathom what that felt like as a mother.

It was like I was in the twilight zone or something. And it happened to be the day that all those days my girlfriend sat with me, but that particular morning I was there alone. I just became hysterical. I just couldn't believe it. It's like someone had taken my heart and ripped it out of my chest and just was stamping on it. I was feeling everything lost, hurt, betrayed. I went to a courthouse where we claimed justice for all, but it's justice for some. I felt I was discriminated against.

During that time, I heard a voice. When I was sitting up there, I heard a voice whisper m and I thought it was my lawyer at first, but when I looked and and I seen he wasn't talking to me. A voice whisper and say you're not gonna do a life sentence, but you gotta go through this to become the woman that you need to be. And later on I knew it was God. But at that time, I just was like, who said that?

Who said that?

And I'm looking around and looking at my mom, and everybody was crying, actually all my friends and family in church. Everybody was crying. And I I remember saying, you know, i'm'a be okay. God got me, and that voice stuck with me, the voice. I took the voice all the way to prison cause I believed that voice.

They actually carried me out of the court room. Fat hands and feet. I sat in the lobby of the courtroom and I just kind of waited. When I left there to go to my car, I was I could hear people talking around me, but it was like I wasn't there, and I was just crying the whole way to my car. And I could hear people saying, are you all right, ma'am?

Are you all right, ma'am?

And it was like they were talking, but I couldn't grasp it, and I just kept walking. I got to my car. I probably cried all the way home. For the first few months, tears were my food, and it was just a lot of crying and a lot of just I didn't know what to do, kind of just in a state of disbelief.

You're listening to Wrongful Conviction with Lauren Bright Pacheco. You can listen to this and all the LoVa for Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. So where were you? Where were you? Signed? Michelle?

I was sent to Metro State Prison.

What was the biggest hurdle for you transitioning to life in prison?

Hmmm, oh wow, just everything. I don't know what was the biggest. They all were big to me, having to live with people who I don't know who. Some are evil,

I would never eat.

So and I'm a sweet person, so people see that they try to take advantage of you, so they always asking for stuff and I'm always giving it to them cause I'm used to being nice.

I'm used to sharing. I'm used to having things, so I don't mind sharing.

So I remember the mental health counselor pulling me in there and saying, listen, if you keep sharing, I'm gonna write you up. You're in prison. Can you understand where you're at. You're not at home. You gonna look at you as week take advantage of you. You need to stop doing it. And I'm like, I'm just being myself this. She was like, well, you're gonna have to do something different because it's not gonna work in this environment.

So when was the next time that you guys got to see one another physically, Cynthia? And what was that like to see your daughter behind bars?

The hardest part was leaving her and seeing her in there. And of course every time you go to visitation, it's a whole other set of drama. I hate the process, the way you're treated, the things you have to go through. They act like you have committed a crime. So the county jail, luckily she didn't stay there, and then it was a facility that wasn't too far from home, like twenty minutes away, so that we could come pretty regularly. But again I had to go through the process with

How did that change the relationship that you two had, because suddenly it's not just as easy as picking up the phone whenever you want or popping by for a visit. How did it change the way in which you guys had to communicate Cynthia.

Well, it was difficult because visitation was limited, and then they always changed stuff as you go along. Phone calls were limited, and prison is expensive. It is a racket. I mean, we spent more money in those years with

And they change them whether or not it's sparkle or glitter or you never know what's acceptable or what's not. So there's the physical inconvenience in trying to meet your daughter's needs in terms of just basic necessities, but then there's also the emotional toll that having to go visit or to have a visitor come in. That must have been really difficult on both of you.

I just always try to be positive and try to see the meaning behind everything I try to.

Learn.

It's always a lesson and in everything, in suffering, failure, anything. So that helped me out a lot in staying full of hope and faith.

That is so admirable. But as weeks turned two months turned to years, and you're not getting any traction, and we're gonna step into Cynthia, the degree of advocacy you did on your daughter's behalf But was there any time, Michelle that it just felt too much for you? Did you have a rock bottom moment?

Oh yeah, Oh yeah.

When I kept getting denied, I fouled my emotion for new trial.

Had I think I had three.

Different lawyers going back to court, lawyers just taking money.

Yeah, I definitely got discouraged.

At one point, I remember going into my room and just getting on my knees and just crying out to God, just crying, crying, God.

This can't be my life. I refuse to believe.

Yeah, I'm just crying, crying, like Lord, I not this is not what you got for me. And I cry for a long time, the longest I've ever cried since I've been incarcerated. And I feel like that was my breaking point.

Cynthia, there's a quote that you said that I would love for you to explain to me. Family members do that time with their loved ones. Have served every minute of these last thirteen years with Michelle.

Yeah, people don't understand that the toll that it actually puts on the family from a different viewpoint. First of all, you carry around sometimes a shame, you don't want to talk about it. You have to make adjustments because of the money and stuff, so you might have to give up some things so that you know that you can make sure that she has provisions. I mean, you're feeling every ounce of that time in there as each day

What for you was the toughest moment.

Well, I had several tough moments. I can't say that the road was easy at all. I mean several times I had breakdowns. But I had a village that surrounded me that encouraged me. So when I was feeling like that, that was when I would get a card in the mail and then have some encouraging words, or somebody would

I love that, and you ended up turning to advocacy, Michelle. Inside you turned to academics. But was there a moment where You're like, I'm going to take this anger and this injustice and I'm going to turn it into action.

God said, if I meet him halfway, he'll meet me the other way. So I knew I had to do everything. I engaged in an introspection. I went inside myself and I had to fix the creeks and crevices within Michelle to make sure I was going to become a better version.

That was the plan for my life.

Well, you did the work in two ways, because I love how you talk about self acceptance and self love and really learning to value your worth. But you also worked hard on your education. Can you just tell me about what you achieved educationally while you were incarcerated.

I took every self help group they had, But on top of that, I took a basic theology course and I took advanced theology course. Got my associate's degree inside of prison, and I started my bachelor's degree while I was there. I also took some trades. I took auto mechanic computer class, and I graduated with my bachelor's degree when I got out of prison.

And you didn't just graduate. You graduated with honors, if I'm not mistaken. And now you're working on your masters.

Yes, I mean my master's in a positive psychology life culture.

I love that. And now, in terms of your advocacy, Cynthia, it must have felt like you were up against an entire system, because you really were, and it's a system that you're absolutely right, is stacked against women like your daughter. Just some stats. According to the Sentencing Project, in the US, black women are locked up at one point six times the rate as white women, and since nineteen eighty the number of women in prison has risen five hundred and

Well, it wasn't easy because it's happened in two thousand and nine, and for years I carried around shame. I didn't want to really share it with people. I didn't even want to share it with my church family, who I've been going to that church for thirty almost forty years. But there was just a small group that I did confide in and they kind of held me up. But a lot of people say they'll help you, but they

And would you say that the turning tide for you was going and opening yourself up to that group of people in Nashville and telling your story.

I think that's when things begin to turn. When that got published and people began to know about it, that's when other doors begin to open up. I found other avenues, other groups, people begin to donate, even to the fact that our last lawyer was paid for completely by a complete stranger that I didn't even know.

Now I've read that for over a decade that you organized and protested for the creation of a conviction integrity unit in Fulton County, what was your driving mission and why do you feel that really should be the goal of every single county in Georgia and beyond.

Well, Paul Howard was our previous district attorney here in Georgia who has been the district attorney for years and years, and he is the one that Michelle was sentenced under, and he was getting ready to be up for election. I didn't know how that was going to play out. So Paul Howard, he decides to get this integrity unit because that would make him look good because he's coming up for reelection. Well, needless did he know he did

And she's not just a DA, she's a rather famous one at this point on a national stage. But so, Fannie Willis, did you have a hope she would make real change?

Oh?

I know that she is a person about fairness, and about doing the right thing when it comes to the justice system. And I believe that she would come in and make the crooked places straight. And I think that's what she has been trying to do with his Integrity Task Force. My prayers that county in Georgia would adopt something like this and look at the cases because it's been going on too long, the over sentencing of people of color, people that are marginalized, and it's got to stop.

And it's almost impossible to fight it on an individual basis. You really do need that oversight to see the systematic corruption that's going on and injustice. So after she was inaugurated in January twenty twenty one, Fannie Willis kept her campaign promise to prioritize the Integrity Unit and revisit cases including Michelle's. And Michelle, you were resentenced in July of twenty twenty one on one charge of attempted armed robbery,

Both? Well?

When I went back to court in July. It was unbelievable. The judge, Amy Maxwell, she is absolutely amazing. I thought she was my lawyer for a second, the way she talked so highly of me, And I was so excited once I heard the judge said, we're going to drop the life sentence. And I'm gonna be honest, No, I did not want to be reindicted for an armed robbery charge because my five year charge was criminal attempt to robbery,

But at the end of the day, I am thankful.

I am thankful because it got me out and I know I can work to try to get my record.

Expunged when I get off of parole. But it's so hard with that charge, that charge, it's hindering.

It's a different kind of life sentence, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yes, it's double jeopardy. It's double jeopardy. I got out of that. Now I'm here and I can't rent from nobody.

So when I got reindicted in twenty twenty one, it's showing up like I just committed the crime in twenty twenty one. It's not going back to two thousand and nine where I was originally charged. So people see that job, see that, places rent see that, and they'd be like, oh, this is a new charge.

It's definitely a lot to.

Deal with for the Conviction Integrity Unit. Was it really just a question of like laying it out for them and saying, do you think this is fairer? Was it just a question of getting her case reevaluated?

Well you have to remember too, when they first started that, there were over one hundred cases to review, and what we heard was Michelle was weighed down at the bottom. But God sent us a lawyer that has that same don't give up spirit, and she was not going for it. When we met and I told her my story, she had this compassion. She immediately went to visit Michelle when other lawyers I paid a lot more money, didn't even do that. But she just was not going to give up.

Jenni's man is a formidable force of nature. I can see Michelle while you guys probably connected right away, and Cynthia you too. She actually sent me something today which I wanted to share with you because I think it speaks volumes. Michelle's case went to the Supreme Court of Georgia and the guilty verdict was upheld. Her case demonstrates why we need laws to support conviction integrity units and sentence review units. The court system as it stands doesn't

Hi, man, that sums it up perfectly.

So, Michelle. August twenty second, twenty twenty two, you were actually the first woman released from prison under Fulton's new Conviction Integrity Unit after serving thirteen years. How do you think you got through those thirteen years?

My faith I'm a very spiritual person, my faith in God, my hope, of course my mom. Without her, it wouldn't have been possible.

And how would you describe your relationship on the other side of this? What do you guys mean to wanty another?

That's my baby, that's my heart, well everything, she's my baby.

No doubt, it's sensitive talking about her every time.

We'd like to travel together. So we've been getting some of that back. We've been taken two trips to Puerto Rico, and we've been doing things together. So we're still trying to get established. It hasn't been easy, but it's good because we can now talk to each other and see each other every day and we do.

What advice would you both have for someone else who finds themselves in this situation? I know that Cynthia, in the process of advocating for Michelle, you came across many other families who, like you, were on their own trying to navigate getting through this process of getting their loved ones released. What advice do you believe ve is most valuable Having gone through everything that you've gone through, to.

Not focus on my situation, but to get involved, to find out everything that I could to help myself. One of the seminars that went they called participatory defense. You must participate in your own defense. You cannot leave it up to a lawyer. You cannot leave it up to anyone. But you know yourself and you can fight for yourself better than anyone, So you have to get involved. Michelle did her part. She did not get in trouble. She

Get involved, Michelle. Why is helping people who're still there resonate so deeply with you.

Because I've met some of the most amazing people I've ever met in my life in there, some of the best friends.

When you're down at your lowest point and you.

Were able to build a friendship, a bond between each other, I feel like that's the most realist friendship you ever can have. So I have a lot of women down there that I truly love. If I can help them out, I will and advocate for them. It's a lot of women down there that's innocent, or they got too much time. They don't have no money, they don't have no helps,

It's so hard you can just ride away. So I'm thankful.

So not only am I going to be the change that I want to see in the world, I'm going to give back that love and compassion that I received during that time, because I know it helped me.

Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the links in the episode description to see how you can get involved and how you can help. I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, and Kevin Wardis, as well as our producers Annie Chelsea and Kathleen Fink. This series is produced, edited, and hosted by me Lauren