On December twentieth, two thousand and two, seventeen year old Brian Carrock was last seen at the Johnsburg, Illinois supermarket where.
He worked as a stockboy.
The following day, he was reported missing, and then the police found blood spatter near a produce schooler at the store, followed by a bloody fingerprint on the door handle. DNA testing revealed two profiles, Brian Carrick and another stockboy named Rob Render, who had already quit his job at Skipped Town, while Brian or his body were never found. However, according to the police, Bryan's disappearance was much more complicated than
it appeared. They believed that another stock boy named Mario Kusharo, whose family owned the supermarket, had orchestrated an incident that led to Brian's death, while Rob Render and another stockboy were just following orders. But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I am so excited today because this story is a story I've been wanting to tell ever since I met the man who lived it, Mario Kasharo.
And Mario's case is unique in so many ways. He's the only person in the history of the Great State of Illinois, to be convicted of murder without a body being found, with the exception of two guys you've probably heard of and probably wish you hadn't, John Wayne Gacy and Jeffrey Dahmer. And to make matters even worse and stranger and more mind boggling, Mario was convicted of a crime you've probably never heard of. I'd never heard of it.
It's called murder by intimidation. So, without further ado, please join me in welcoming my great friend and personally hero, Mario Cacio. Mario, welcome to wrongful Conviction.
Thank you so much for having me on this wonderful show.
So this story, I mean, you were nineteen years old when this happened, but I want to go back even farther than that. And it's crazy too because this is a family story, because the alleged crime took place at the supermarket you worked at that was owned by your family. But let's rewind what was the previous eighteen years of your life like before we get up to the faithful occurrence that is the center of this story.
I would say, to summarize it short, would be a blessing. My parents are the American dream my mother and father emigrated from Italy Southern Italy. My dad found a job as a janitor at a union company, worked there for thirty six years and retired as union stewart and the highest in command of a company that had twelve thousand employees. And then he was too young to retire but too old to start over, so he invested with some other family members to start a grocery store in the far
northwest suburbs of Chicago. So we moved out to this small little town called Johnsburg, Illinois, and my parents started a supermarket because it was always my dad's dream to own a business.
Johnsburg, Illinois has a population of less than sixty four hundred people, so most of the people whose names pop up in this story were all acquainted with each other from either high school just around town, or from working at vals to Cushao's grocery store, including a few of the stock boys, Alan Leppert, Shane Lamb, Robert Render, and then the victim in this case, a close friend of Mario's, Brian Carrick.
Brian was one of fourteen children, nine of which worked for my family's grocery store at one time or another, so it was a family tradition for the Carrick children to work at VAL's while they were in high school until they went off to college or the army or whatever endeavors they had in their life. So we're pretty close because they lived also directly across the street from the store.
On the only main road in town.
Sounds like Smallville, USA. Pretty much everybody knows everybody. I've like mister Rogers visions in my head, but okay, this is the Actually it turns into the opposite of that. So on December twenty first, two thousand and two, Brian Carrick,
who was seventeen at the time. Another stock boy at VAL's Foods right Darren Johnsburg, Illinois, was reported missing by his mother, and the police determined that one of the last times he had been seen was the previous day, December twentieth, when he went to the store to pick up his paycheck, and then two days after that, the twenty second, the cops found blood spatter near a cooler that was used to store produce and a bloody fingerprint
on the cooler's exterior door handle. Now DNA tests identified the blood spatter and the cooler as belonging to Bryan Carrick. The fingerprint and the blood the print was in that was on the cooler door handle or identified by DNA testing as belonging to Robert Render, who was another stock boy at Valves. As we've discussed, and witnesses told police that Render was president at the store on December twentieth, he quit his job, interestingly on December twenty second and
dropped out of sight. You don't need to be Colombo to start to wonder what was going on there. But okay, now, other stock boys who were present on the day that Carrick was last seen, included you. The crime went unsolved for several years, and this poor kid, Krrick, his body was never found. Do we know or do we have a strong theory about what actually happened to Brian And how did Render convince them not to pursue him.
It's a great question that's largely gone unanswered. The lion's share of the physical evidence indicated his involvement in this case, from fingerprints to DNA evidence. The victim's blood is on the top of his shoes that he was wearing the night of the crime. Everything that's undisputed links him to
the case. Looking backward years later after civil depositions with the police department, and their defense always was that he wasn't a very big guy, and of course our defense was that if you're stabbing somebody, you don't have to be a big guy. And Brian Carrick and Rob Render were approximately.
The same size.
I would say Rob was just a little bigger than Brian, but for some reason, because I was a taller person, their opinion was that I was more capable of committing this crime.
You're not a big guy, You're a slender guy. Will use skinny guy back then too.
Yeah, I was about one hundred and forty five pounds one fifty maybe tops six', one SO i was a, skinny tall.
Guy six years After brian characters, Appeared Rob render was finally, charged but only with concealing a homicide and not. Homicide, however during the interim years the case went. Cold in life moved.
On, YEAH i graduated college and then me and my dad and my brother opened a supermarket on our own because the previous supermarket In johnsburg had more family members in, it and families were, growing so we decided to open our own supermarket and it was wildly.
Successful.
Well mario's life was going. Great an old high school, Acquaintance Alan, lippert was not doing as.
Well now at this, TIME i hadn't Seen Alan lippert since probably junior senior year of high, school so four or five years had gone. BY i went off to. College he dropped out of high school and got really heavy into. Drugs he had just been released from prison and then gotten himself in some. Trouble he had drugs on him and he was looking at going back to
prison FOR i think somewhere between two and four. Years and that is the beginning of what we call the dream confession in our, case Because Alan lippert claimed that he was sitting at his house one day at two o'clock or three o'clock in the, morning and then my car pulled into his driveway AND i told him THAT i needed to confess THAT i was involved in the murder Of Brian.
Carrick according To, lippert in the fall of two thousand and, Six mario confessed that he had told one of the Larger stock boys Named Shane lamb to Intimidate brian for reasons related to drug, trafficking and quote things got out of hand end. Quote, Additionally lippert said That brian's body had been buried, locally but Then mario allegedly called his cousins From chicago to, exuom, dismember and relocate the body to a river In.
Iowa the local police department At Alan lippert come into my grocery store wearing a wire AND i hadn't seen him in, years and he started asking me How i've, been how's my, family stuff like, that and then he's, like do you remember that night that you stopped over at my? House AND i was, like what are you talking? ABOUT i didn't EVEN i haven't seen you in a. While and it was really awkward.
Conversation at this, Point mario was still completely unaware that he was a suspect in this cold. Case until the grand jury was.
CONVENED i was told that they had a lead in the case and they needed help establishing. Timelines and THEN i was brought into the grand jury AND i walked in without an attorney BECAUSE i didn't THINK i needed. ONE i didn't do anything, wrong and of course there's three prosecutors cross examining you for over an. Hour every question is how did you Kill? Brian, Carrick where did you put the murder? Weapon where did you put his?
Body why did you kill? Him And i'm just, answering, no, no, No i'm not involved in any of, this SO i keep saying.
No mario still had no idea That lippert was the, Source so after the grand, Jury lippert wired up a few more, times and according To McHenry county Prosecutors Michael combs And Patrick, Knneely mario's grand jury testimony differed from the recordings With Alan, lippert and they charged him with nine counts of Per but something about the investigation piqued the interest of THE, fbi who Interviewed lippert about that fall night in two thousand and.
Six THE fbi gave him a polygraph test and he failed, miserably and then when they asked him why he, failed he said it very well may have been a, dream and that he was drinking alcohol all day in excess of a case of beer in multiple, shots and that he was also high on mushrooms and he wasn't sure IF i really came to his house or.
Not that was their, witness which might explain why the prosecutors were forced to drop seven of the nine counts before trial In august of two thousand.
And, nine we were so confident in that they didn't have any. Evidence we actually paid an expert audio person to make the tapes more so you could hear them better once you removed all the background. Noise you just hear me asking him what the hell he's talking? About and why are you asking me? That what are you talking? About and then he tried to change the subject and then ultimately left the store after his attempt to frame me for a. Crime and then after we played it
for the state's, attorney that's when they dismissed the. Counts but then, they of course they went to the media and said it was. Inaudible but, Yeah so then we proceeded the two counts that were remaining and we did a bench trial in front Of Sharon prater in Mckenry. County and up until this, point a bench trials not a lot of people usually elect those on a serious criminal defense. Case but ultimately we felt that they had
absolutely no evidence because they did not have any. Corroboration they had the testimony of a three time felon that was looking to get out of an unrelated. Case that's saying that he isn't sure if it was a dream or, not and that he was on mushrooms and drink a case of. Beer that's the only evidence they, had so she dismissed. It she did a directed verdict.
Acquittal.
Wow NOW i have to, ask did you think that after That i'm not guilty, verdict that this was finally over and you can put it behind.
YOU i, did AND i.
DIDN'T i didn't because of the reaction of the. Prosecutor he slammed his hands on his, table and then when we were walking, out he, said this isn't.
Over.
Wow and then three months go by AND i am pulling out of the parking lot of the store AND i get boxed in by white. Expeditions they are, screaming get out of the, car get on the, ground get on the. Ground i'm laying on my, stomach handcuffed behind my back and shotguns drawn to my head and one of the police officers tells me you have been charged with.
Murder wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people in. Prison now we're expanding that voice to. You call us at eight three three TWO o seven four six sixty six and leave us a message tell us how these, powerful often tragic stories make you feel, outraged, inspired. Motivated we want to. Know we may even include your story in a future. Episode call US a three, three, TWO o seven four six SIX.
X so it all stemmed From Shane. Lamb he had just been released from prison on an unrelated drug. Case they set him up on an operation Called Operation Lamb Chop believe Or. Not they got an undercover to ask him if he could find some, cocaine and when he was broke and just got out of, prison he agreed to selling, cocaine and then the undercover had him meet
them in a high school parking. Lot, so now you have a person that's on parole for Two CLASS x felonies and he's looking at like fourteen years in The Illinois department Of. Corrections so now they put an unsurmountable amount of pressure on. Him and they, said, well here is the testimony of All lippert And lamb and the prosecutor met and they had concocted a.
Story Shane lamb was granted full immunity for his, cooperation and In february twenty, ten they Arrested mario on Six velly murder counts as well as concealing a.
HOMICIDE i think they just threw anything they could at the wall and saw what. Stuck this isn't a office that's known for being very. Ethical So BRIAN. T, landers who represented, me he previously was a state's attorney In Cook county and then went to become a judge In DuPage county and then came off the bench and took my.
Case lander quickly poked holes In lamb's, story who alleged that he And karak sold weed From mario and that he Was mario's alleged, muscle standing at six foot and two hundred and forty. Pounds lamb alleged That mario called him into the store to Intimidate karrick and collect from him on the day he.
Disappeared lamb's biggest quote was that If mario didn't, call THEN i wouldn't have been. There so what we did is we Got lamb's phone record in my phone, records and of course there's no phone calls between me And lamb at. All in, fact there's no phone calls for me to anybody during the time that they think this murder, happened and that gave him a.
Stump the prosecutors dropped five of the seven, charges but they moved forward with two felony murder counts by unlawful restraint and by. Intimidation and the indictment read That mario quote or one for whom he was legally accountable while committing the forcible felony of, intimidation Struck karc in the, head causing his death end. Quote so they brought this
case that was predicated on statements that had been impeached before. Trial, now since the defense didn't feel like the burden of proof was, met the strategy was to focus on cross. Examination they pointed out That lamb was lying about any phone calls that brought him to the, store but nonetheless he maintained that he was there in the cooler Under mario's direction and Punched karak in the. Face lamb, said, QUOTE i THOUGHT i knocked him. OUT i knock out
a lot of. People mario grabbed me and said get out of. Here end.
Quote my attorney Got Shane lamb on cross examination to say that he'll say whatever he's got to say to not go to, prison and he, said even lying about a murder, case and then he said, yes and then we were, like no further.
Questions the state trotted Out Alan lippert again to talk about his alcohol and mushroom fueled fever. Dream this time he, added though That mario had told him that, Quote shane Hit, carrick but it was an accident end, quote again using the info from THE fbi. Interview mario's attorney shredded him on cross. Examination, now had they put on a defense beyond cross, examination Calling Rob render may have been a winning.
Strategy the state put him on the witness list and we prepared for the cross, examination and then they just didn't call.
Him, however the state did present a crime lab technician to talk about the blood evidence that Implicated Rob.
Render when we had the state crime lab expert on the, stand my lawyers started asking, Him, okay you guys took how many? Swabs and he, said we TOOK i think it was like thirty. Six and then he, said, well are you sure it's not eighteen BECAUSE i only have eighteen that were, tested and he, said, no we took thirty, six but we didn't have all of them.
Tested this meant that there was new evidence available that would further solidify renders. Guilt but Remember mario's charges were not about, violence but about who orchestrated the incident that resulted in. Violence and after two days of, deliberation eleven of the twelve jurors believed the state's narrative about drug dealing and musclemn and That mario was in fact guilty of murder by.
Intimidation we thought that there was maybe one hold out that wanted to, convict and it was eleven to one the other. WAY i, mean they didn't have anything that put me in. It they didn't have a, motive an, opportunity any physical. Evidence it was not a situation WHERE i was Thinking.
I'm going to be, Convicted so what DO i? Know?
Though you know a lot more. NOW i, mean by the, way whoever that one person, IS i hope they're listening right, now because life slaver and for everyone's. Listening when you serve on a, jury be that, one you know WHAT i, mean stand. Up it's, inconvenient it can be, scary, intimidating it could take more of your. Time you're not going to get home as quickly to your family and the things that you. Love but you know what that person
at least temporarily Saved mario's. Life so here we go to the third.
Trial different, jury but we had actually more evidence that was helpful to.
Me this, Time mario's team was going to mount a robust defense beyond cross. Examination first the remaining blood.
Evidence the very first motion that we filed was to have all of the blood evidence examined by the state crime. Lab so those came, back and more of them Were render Than. Carrick so it's not like he had a little bit of blood at the crime. Scene he's got blood all over the place at the crime. Scene and the experts that looked at the photographs of the crime, scene they think it was a stabbing and they think That render cut himself with the, knife which is why there's multiple places.
Where his blood is actually meshed With.
Carricks so the sample had both of their blood on one. Sample and then, ultimately Though render's thumb print is In carrick's blood on the, wall and the print had to have been when the blood was, wet so it puts him at the actual scene of the. Crime so about a week after the local news, Media Northwest herald released an article that said that he had blood all over the.
Place so, unfortunately in between the second and third, Trial Rob rendered overdosed on drugs on A i think it's called a hot, shot so it's like when you take caroin and cocaine mixed. Together but he was at a rehab, center which was. Interesting so he died at a re.
Center as strange and shady as that, Sounds Rob render clearly was not going to be able to, testify but the blood evidence could tell that. Story, Meanwhile mario was out on bond when something truly extraordinary.
HAPPENED i was at a bar And Shane lamb had been released from, prison and he walked up to me at the, bar and his conversation to me Is i'm really sorry that this is. HAPPENING i didn't mean for this to. HAPPEN i didn't think that Any jerry would ever actually believe. ME i was just saying WHAT i
needed to say to get out of. Prison the state's attorney told me specifically exactly WHAT i should, say and fortunate for, me there's multiple witnesses, around and one being a criminal defense attorney that is not on my, case and somebody that was near me went and grabbed him as like you need to be over, here because you're an officer of the, court you should hear. This and this wasn't a situation Where lamb was. Intoxicated he had just gotten there AND i had just gotten.
There it was, daylight and.
He's sitting there, venting telling me and this whole group of people that he was forced to say all this stuff and that he didn't think the jury would believe, it and that all got entered into evidence in my third.
Trial, wow it's quite a turn of. Events he happened to be in that bar and there happened to be an officer of the court.
There video, camera video, camera we had it on video camera.
Bar. Wow and it wasn't so noisy in the. Bar the video camera was able to pick it.
Up the audio on that one was garbled because the bar obviously a loud. Place but then you see four or five people standing around just, listening and then you See Ed donahue on a camera sitting there listening to the. Conversation And ed's an. Attorney he was a former state's attorney and he was a criminal defense attorney in Mckenry. County so he's ultimately pulled into this case because he just was a patron of the local.
Bar even with this bombshell impeachment, evidence once again destroying the testimony Of Shane. Lamb mario was tried for a third time In march twenty, thirteen but this time the unlawful restraint charge was which meant that the only charge he was now facing was felony murdered by.
Intimidation of, course we alerted the judge that nobody in the, country nobody in common, law has ever been charged with. This so nobody In, England New, Zealand, australia any country that practices common, law has ever used intimidation as a predicate felony for. Murder and the judge's response was that would be an item for the appellate court to, decide so she wouldn't make a ruling on it and force us to proceed on that last.
Count and before, trial the prosecutors did what they usually do when their case is this.
Thin the morning that we selected the third, jury The States Attorney's office came to my attorney and, said if you can get your client to plead guilty to concealment of a, homicide which is A class two, FELONY i believe will dismiss the final murder, count AND i think at that time it already served two years in the county, jail SO i pretty much would addressed in and dressed
out BECAUSE i had no criminal. Background BUT i was unwe willing to take a plea deal WHERE i admitted to concealing somebody's body WHEN i had nothing to do with the.
Case so the state persisted once again presenting the evidence that had convinced eleven out of twelve jurors during the second.
TRIAL i actually felt really confident going in because in the third trial we actually presented a defense in which we brought an attorney At donahue to. TESTIFY i understand that the state's main and only witness was being told what to stay by the, prosecution and that he admitted to lying and that none of that what he had
testified to was. True but Also lamb's in the second trial he said THAT i told him to do, it but then the third trial he came back and said that he did it on his own and THAT i just happened to be there with.
The defense that was mounted the blood, evidence bone, Record Shane lamb's, recantation and both states witnesses being destroyed on Cross it's really confusing how we're here speaking With mary.
TODAY i had the feeling during the third trial that the jury pool was not Paying at ten we had an older. Jury every time that we looked over at, them it was like they were like, sleeping but not like resting their head on their.
Arms it appears that the state was able to muddy up which should have been very clear waters for a very sleepy. Jury And, mario after fighting the state for now over six, years became the first person IN us history and common law history to be convicted of felony murder by.
Intimidation when the judge read the, verdict people stood up and started screaming at the, jury asking them if they listened to any of the. WITNESSES i put my head down BECAUSE i just couldn't believe. It everybody was up in, Arms my parents were, crying and that the two prosecutors were high fiving each. Other and then the one prosecutor ultimately looked at me and, SAID i told YOU i was going to get.
You told you it wasn't.
Over the very next morning AFTER i was, Convicted Brian telander came to see me And he was obviously very, apologetic but also was just telling me he could not believe still that the jury convicted on that.
Evidence he was pretty.
BROKEN i think he actually told me that he lost faith in the justice system from that. Verdict and he said THAT i have talked to The states. Attorney they're willing to cut a deal with you if you can tell them where the body. Is SO i told HIM i had no idea where the body. Was so even AFTER i was, CONVICTED i still turned down a plea. Deal of, course IF i was actually responsible for this, CRIME i would have taken both opportunities.
In Covering mario's. Case we had the opportunity to speak with his post conviction, Attorney Kathleen, zelner and she told us how she got.
Involved his sister worked for a law firm downtown and she was RESEARCHING i guess wrongful conviction attorneys and she found me and THEN i met with. THEM i love his, family and you hear his, background and you know he already had a college. Degree and then the judge has such a horrible. REPUTATION i was all.
In two days AFTER i was, CONVICTED i get called for a. Visit i'm at the McKenny County jail AND i walk into the visiting room AND i see a woman. THERE i had never seen her, before SO i, SAID i Think i'm in the wrong, room and she, Said, Mario i'm here to talk to. You my name Is Kathleen.
Zelner i'm very interested in helping. You this evidence is so ridiculous THAT i think that we might be able to get the judge to vacate the conviction before even the, sentencing and then you'll have either a fourth trial or this will be.
The end of.
It we didn't think that was like a high, probably but it was a.
Possibility, unfortunately that possibility did not come to, pass And mario was sentenced to twenty six.
Years So i'm down In.
Minard minard is a maximum security prison that is about an hour south Of Saint, louis AND i was living prior to all this about an hour north Of, chicago so it's about a six hour drive for my family to come and see. Me it's a max security, place
so there's not a lot of. MOVEMENT i was in my jail cell twenty three hours a. Day in one, sense it's terrible that you're confined to a small space for twenty three hours a. Day but in another, way at least you're not open to getting attacked by a bunch of people that have been legitimately convicted of murder.
OFFENSES i would say.
It's probably the worst Place i've ever.
Been wish it upon.
Nobody but what they did have THAT i thought was good was a law. Library SO i just stayed to myself from the MOMENT i got there till the MOMENT i. LEFT i focused on case and tried to figure out how to get out of, there and did as much legal research AS i possibly, could and read as many books about the law AS i. COULD i thought that it would be prudent for me to use every moment THAT i had to focus on. Freedom even THOUGH i have a great, LAWYER.
I didn't want to just sit there with the direct. APPEAL i wanted to, reinvestigate because In illinois you can file the post conviction and the direct appeal at the same. Time during that, investigation we found a former employee that had worked there that had discovered a pair of men's underwear in the women's restroom up in the. Ceiling the tiles had been removed and somebody had thrown it up there and it was, bloodstained and it turned out render
had gone in that. Bathroom he was cut and. Bleeding it was his. Underwear he used that as a tourniquet to stop the, bleeding and then he threw it up in the. Ceiling and it turned out this employee that had discovered a pair of men's, underwear this kid's, father was a deputy. Sheriff so the father, said we got to take this over to the sheriff's office and turn it, in so they, did and then the police chief threw it.
Away Jesus.
Christ he admitted that in his civil, DEPOSITION i filed a post conviction petition along with the appeal so THAT i could put all the new evidence in that and publicize.
It ABC's twenty twenty began looking into the, case And Shane lamb agreed to, participate where he gave a videotaped recantation while exposing state's Attorney Michael, combs, saying quote all of it was. False the state's attorney set it. UP i didn't have anything to do with. This maria didn't have anything to do with. THIS i would be indicted for murder IF i didn't. COOPERATE i was following What combs wanted me to. Say they just wanted to close the case end. Quote. Wow.
Yeah and we planned all that with twenty twenty because that's one of my really good, Friends lisa's soul, away so we had given them like. Questions we thought he would give a, confession but if he'd do it on the, air that would be even.
BETTER i can't THINK abc twenty twenty. Enough that show changed EVERYTHING i, thought because it really just undermined that conviction and it just ferreted out how bad the prosecutors.
Are in Mckenry.
COUNTY i, mean it's pretty bad when you have on national show saying that the prosecutors are coursing witnesses and telling them what to.
Say that's how you get leverage with the appellate.
Court at the time this, Aired mario's direct appeal was pending in a filing where the focus was insufficient. Evidence having the information that your jury appeared to have missed be broadcast nationally probably didn't hurt when a three judge panel made.
Their Ruling september twenty, third twenty, FIFTEEN i got a call From kathleen's. Office my parents were in the room AND i THINK abc taped. It kathleen, said the appellate opinion came out and they overturned your, case and you are going to be a free. Man all three judges said that no reasonable juror could convict me based on the evidence that was.
Presented somehow they still found. Twelve, yeah for your third.
Trial they're saying there's twelve people that are. Unreasonable it makes it makes. Sense so at the, time AND i don't know if that's still the, case but at the, time this was only the fourth case to ever be overturned for insufficiency, evidence for specifically for no reasonable dur could convict base on the evidence that was.
Presented i'm rarely at a loss for, Words, mario but this is one of those. Times but so let me just take a deep breath and then let's get to the good.
Stuff so two days, LATER i am told That i'm going to be released by the. Guards So i'm packing everything up AND i go to the front. Door the warden is. THERE i actually asked the warden IF i could speak to her about running her facility more, efficiently and.
She thought that was very.
Odd she, said you're free to walk out the door AND i, said, YEAH i, know BUT i was brought up in a grocery store and we had a pretty large, business so in a very professional, manner SO i think you could address these issues and you guys would actually make more money. Too and it boiled all the way down to. Phones so there was only four phones available
on the, yard but there's two hundred and fifty. PEOPLE i, said why don't you triple the amount of, phones because they're making ten dollars a phone call at the, time so it would be to their benefit to have more. Phones but also what happened is the gang's one of the biggest reasons they had power is they would control the. Phone SO i explained to, her why don't you triple
the amount of. Phones you guys can make more, money you'd have less, fights and she acted like she had no, idea and then she was, like you're being, released see you. Later so my family brings clothes in to, me and THEN i walk out the. Door, kathleen she raised my hand up as we were walking down the stairs because we had defeated the. State after long rigorous wore thirteen years after the, disappearance.
You and and we're close, though, Right So what did his thirteen siblings think of all.
THIS i had spoken to a few of them during the, years and it seems like they're conflicted something That i'm. Responsible some. Don't some of the siblings thought THAT i knew what happened and THAT i wasn't telling them or wasn't coming clean to the police, department when in, REALITY i would have been the first one that would have because it would have absolved me from having anything to do with. This they were all really good. PEOPLE i
feel terrible that this happened to. Them for, ME i wish they would have directed their energy more at being upset with The State's attorney's office for just having such an inadequate investigation in the local police.
Department the reasons for that righteous indignation ended up on full display during the depositions For mario's civil.
Litigation when we were deposing the lead, investigator he disclosed to us that he had never been to the police academy prior to this.
Investigation, yeah BECAUSE i always start in those depths, with, well give us a little bit about your job.
History three months before the, investigation he was working AT Ace hardware and he was let go for being an incompetent stock man and then walked into the police department and was told that they were looking for somebody part. Time he had never been to the police academy prior to this. Investigation he was pending he was going to. Go so a guy that was let go from THE Ace hardware because he couldn't figure out where to stock items correctly three months in is now in charge of a murder.
Investigation he felt tremendous guilt because he really gave up everything in that. Deposition it was, like you, KNOW i never should have done.
That and even their attorneys were just in. Awe and then we informed him that if you know somebody's innocent of a, crime you have what's called a duty to. Intervene and his response, WAS i didn't know THAT i could do.
THAT i didn't know.
THAT i could tell the state's attorney that do you guys have the wrong? Guy so, well, honestly the civil rights depositions made everything that happened over the years crystal, clear and you could see why it, happened and it just it boiled all the way down to if somebody's not trained to be a police officer and has no experience and has no idea what they're. Doing they should
not be at a crime. SCENE i, mean he's at the crime scene touching everything without gloves on because he didn't know that you should put gloves.
On if only Mckenry county managed to have the same standards AS Ace, HARDWARE i, mean can you imagine not to mention how the prosecuting Attorneys Michael combs And patrick McNeely had the same duty right they did to, intervene but in a, sick sinister, twist they somehow still felt it was appropriate for them to high five each other when you got.
Convicted but karma works itself. OUT i, THINK i don't know if you guys have followed. Aftermath but the prosecutor that was the lead on this case ended up being fired and his pretty much incapable of finding a meaningful. Employment, interestingly because it's a small, town multiple people have sent me he can't control his, liquors so he falls off barstools and talks about how powerful he is in that little.
Town has claim to fame was that he got a conviction with.
Nobody he's willing to tell people this and actually as if it's an, achievement when really you should be ashamed of. Himself and then the second prosecutor is now the state's attorney of the, county but has had a number of. ISSUES i know he attacked his, wife the police were, called and just really become an embarrassment to the.
State, meanwhile since his, Release mario graduated From Loyola Law school and was admitted to The Illinois State bar in twenty, nineteen all while settling his civil.
Case SO i actually settled with The State's attorney's office
and with the police department. Separately i'm one of very few, people if, Any i've never actually met any other wrongfully convicted people that actually settled with the state's attorney's office because they have absolute, immunity and they still settled with, me primarily because they were concerned about their, image the way that they were being portrayed in the, media AND i think that they were concerned if this went any further that their law licenses would be in.
Jeopardy, Mario it's been a real joy for me to get to know you and to work with you on, cases And i'm just so happy that you have come through this and risen above. It so with, that we're going to go to closing, arguments where first of, ALL i thank you from the bottom of my heart for joining us and sharing your incredible. Story and Now i'm going to kick back in my, chair turn my microphone, off leave my headphones, on and close my eyes and just listen to anything else you have to.
Say for as awful of a situation as it was that happened to, me the silver lining was AS i came out of this winning my civil rights lawsuit publicly embarrassing the state's attorney's, office AND i am a successful. Attorney in a weird, way this changed my life. Trajectory it's almost like if you watched the Movie back to The. Future the moment That Brian carrick disappeared changed my entire.
Life and Now i'm sitting here as a criminal defense attorney working in post conviction unit In Cook, county And i've had a huge effect on a lot of my client's. Lives i've had people That i've had life sentences, vacated and it's alarming that this could easily happen. Again there's just so many incompetent people still involved and still in positions of power in that very, county and SO i try to talk to people about how important it is
to actually pay attention to your local. Elections the people that you elect to be judge your state's attorney are often more critical to you than electing the, president because those are the people that can indict, you indict the wrong, person or choose to not charge.
People it's a very very important. JOB i can't stress that.
Enough thank you for listening To Wrongful. Conviction you can listen to this and all The lava For good podcasts one week early by subscribing To lava For Good plus On Apple. PODCASTS i want to thank our production, Team Connor hall And Kathleen, fink as well as my fellow executive Producers Jeff, Kempler Kevin, wartis And Jeff. Clyburn the music in this production was supplied by three TIME oscar
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