In twenty twelve, an American civil engineer named Matt Huang was offered an intriguing opportunity to evaluate the wastewater and reuse systems in the Middle Eastern country of Qatar as they prepared to host the twenty twenty two World Cup. So Matt, his wife, and their three adopted children embarked on what seemed like an exciting new adventure. But on January fifteenth, twenty thirteen, tragedy struck. Their middle child, Gloria, had become mysteriously ill. She was rushed to the hospital
where CPR was performed, but she passed away. It was reported that her death was caused by starvation and dehydration, and the Katari police knew exactly who to blame. But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrong Conviction. Today's episode is like a crazy mixture of Locked Up Abroad meets the Twilight Zone meets No Good Deed Goes Unpunished the Extreme Edition. Okay, and you'll understand as we go
along what I mean by all those references. We're gonna be telling the story of Matt Huang, who is on the air with us right now. Matt, Welcome to the show. Thank you, And like I always say, I'm happy you're here, well I'm happier here because you're not there, But I'm sorry for what you had to go through to be here on the show today. But with us, we have somebody who everybody who listens to the show will recognize one of my personal heroes, the founder of the California
Innocence Project, Professor Justin Brooks. So Justin, welcome back. Thank you so much. Now, most of the cases we've covered, they happen right here in the US, but Matt yours happened halfway across the world in the Middle East, in the nation of Qatar, to be exact. But before we get to all of that, let's hear a little bit about your life before all of this tragedy and insanity took place.
I grew up in southern California in the LA area. I'm a Chinese American. My parents are immigrants, but I'm born and raised in the US. I have a bachelor's degree from University California, Irvine, and I have a master's degree in environmental engineering from Stanford University. I met and married my wife, Grace, and we adopted three children from Africa. My older son and my daughter Gloria are from Ghana.
My younger son is from Uganda. Being Chinese ethnically, you know, everyone asked us, especially at that time, you know, why not adopt from China. At that point, China had the one child policy, and I just didn't feel like we wanted to support what they were doing there because most of their kids were available for adoption because the government forced them to be, and not because they didn't have parents love them. And we picked an adoption agency and
I'm an only child. At some point in the process, we realized, oh, kind of having siblings might be kind of nice, And there were a bunch of siblings in the orphanage in Ghana that our adoption agency was working with, and so that was one of the reasons we end up going to Ghana for our first adoption.
And so that's when you adopted the two older siblings, one of whom was your daughter Gloria. Now, at some point after you and your wife adopted your third child, you got what may have it must have sounded like a really exciting opportunity halfway across the world in Guitar.
At that point in time, Qatar had been awarded the twenty twenty two FIFA World Cup for soccer. They had tons of people who were there to you know, do construction, to do projects to get ready for that World Cup. My company that I was working for at the time transferred us there. I was working on a project looking at planning on their wastewater systems and their reuse.
And so you and your family were living in the capital city of Doha. Can you give us a bit of europe first impression.
There's basically one city for all intents and purposes. It's a pretty small country. It's probably a two hour drive, you know, on a freeway in one direction, about an hour drive in the other way. It's a monarchy. They're only neighboring country, Saudi Arabia. It's one of the richest countries in the world because of oil and natural gas. The citizens actually get paid, at least when we were there, it was something like about twenty six hundred dollars US
a month a person, including children, from the government. And that's actually how the monarchy keeps power because they share the oil and natural gas revenues with the citizens. It's got about two million people in the country, but eighty five percent of the people are foreigners, which mean there
are foreign workers that have been brought in. The majority of the people who get brought into work are in construction and those types of industries, and a lot of these workers are paid three hundre buxham up or less.
It's sort of like a country of billionaires, so you have to import a working class. It is a huge amount of extraordinarily wealthy people and then this massive underclass.
There is definitely a social hierarchy. So if you're a Gulf Arab, you're treated much better, and I would argue that there's probably five or six levels of that hierarchy. If you're a white person, you're looked on much more highly. And the fact that we are Asians put us lower down that hierarchy, not as low as say being black, right, which.
Of course all three of your children were. And that ethnic disparity later played into the minds of these investigators who were they were accustomed to seeing human trafficking and to those types of injustices.
I saw it just flying in and out of the airport. You would see these large groups of people coming in from India and Africa that were all coming to work on the World Cup Games, and it was well reported in the media that there is slave trading going on, that negotiations would happen with like town elders in Africa India, and then the next thing you know, two hundred guys get shipped over to work on construction the desert, building these buildings. I don't know if I ever talked to you about this.
Matt.
I had this driver there and when he first picked me up, I said, how do you like live in here? Because he was from the Philippines and he'd been there like six months. He says, Oh, it's great, it's great, blah blah blah, blah blah. Then he sees you on the news and he knows about your case and he knows why I'm there, and then he says to me, this has been terrible. They took my passport when I got in the country. They told me I was going to make all this money, and they're not paying me anything.
I'm grateful I get to be a driver because I see these guys dying every day in the desert who are construction workers, who are living in the same dormitory that I'm living in, And I'm just counting the days until they give me my passport back so I can leave the country.
I'm rarely at a loss for words, but I don't have any words.
This is what's going on there, a country that we gave the World Cup to. It's shocking there. You know, there is this veneer of success, but beneath it, there's this sort of repressive operation through the monarchy and the control of the government and the justice system. And Matt's story is sort of wrapped up in that.
And so while Matt and his family had to navigate almost like a caste system as well as a language that they just didn't understand, something truly tragic happened to their adopted daughter from Ghana. I'm talking, of course about Gloria.
Gloria came from an environment of extreme, you know, a kind of extremity that as Americans we can't even really comprehend. She developed an eating disorder because she ate when the food drops came, and so there were long periods of time that literally they didn't have food, and Matt and his wife were trying to develop good eating habits because she would go on they called food strikes and would neat for a few days. And so this had happened repeatedly.
So Gloria had been really struggling with this eating disorder, and who knows what ramifications it was having on her little fragile eight year old body. And that brings us up to January fifteenth, twenty thirteen, just about six months into the Huang family stint in Qatar.
I found my daughter Gloria in her room, sickly on the floor, and we had been there like six months, so I didn't think I even knew the number of emergency. So I put her in the car, drove her to the hospital and they worked on her CPR, and then they told me she had died. And you know, I was talking to my wife of course on the phone, but my sons had gone to bed, so we woke them up, told them what happened, drove them back from the hospital, and basically they give us like a couple
minutes with Gloria, and then police started questioning us. They separated me from my wife and my sons brought me out to a vehicle in the hospital parking lot. There were like twenty guys surrounding me and started peppering me with.
Questions in English.
In English, basically they're starting to accuse me of you're a bad father, you don't know what's going on with your kid, and so they were going after me for I don't know, an hour and a half or something, and so at some point they drive me to a police station, asked me a couple questions. At this point, I have no idea where my wife and kids are. And then they drove me to another police station where now there was a couple guys that start interrogating me
and trying to make a written statement. That I speak zero Arabic and these two guys are English is horrendous. So they're typing this out in Arabic, you know, and asking me questions and how you do a statement without any translation is without me, and so then they print now asked me to sign it, which I'm like, well,
tell me what you wrote. So he sat there and he translated everything for me, and then after that this other guy came in and he looked at it and asked them to make these like changes to my statementre Far, I signed it right, And so after they made these changes, I was like, okay, read this to me, tell me what's written, and they said, no, you just have to sign it. I was brought into this room where I
found my wife and my sons. Now this is six in the morning, after they had just made me sign a statement where they made changes, and I had no idea what changes they made.
So what was their theory? I mean, do we actually know what was wrong with Gloria?
The hard answer is that we don't know, and we don't know because the autopsy that was done was a complete fabrication. When it was later looked into, you know, organs were still pristine. There wasn't the kind of examination that needed to be done in order to come to a conclusion. What we do know is that the child did not die of starvation, which is what the prosecution was pursuing. She developed eating disorder, which meant she would go on what they called food strikes and wouldn't eat
for a few days. When they find out about that, that then becomes a foundation for a prosecutution, even though in reality, the mere fact that a child doesn't eat for a couple of days doesn't cause them to die, and she clearly did not die of starvation. It's just literally, scientifically, medically impossible based on the evidence that that's how she died. But sadly, like many of these cases, it started with
an officer making assumptions and just rolling with them. And in Matt's case, the assumption was their daughter is deceased, you see Asian parents, you see black children, and now, oh, they must be slave traders. They're not a couple from the United States who just went through a normal adoption process and a Stanford trained engineer. They must be slave traders. And they were being prosecuted for starving their daughter to death to harvest the organs.
So Matt's engineering degree and work visa, there are American passports and adoption papers. None of this seemed to make a difference with the good police, and none of it
made them rethink this theory. But rather just going on appearances, you know, with the cultural lens that they looked at it through from the Katari social hierarchy, they felt that it was plausible somehow that an Asian couple of a loving family with all this history might be harvesting and selling the internal organs of their African children.
There was all kinds of racism as well, just within the evidence. As I recall one of the police reports, it literally said, why would anyone adopt black children, challenging the fact that they were adopted.
The police report actually said black children were ugly. That's awful. My kids are not ugly.
Yeah, they're saying out loud the stuff that people shouldn't even be thinking and writing it in a police report that's being introduced into evidence. And that's just an example how outrageous this whole thing was.
You know, we see a time and again in this country as well, that when a child dies, it's just terrifying to people and it's so terribly difficult for them to grapple with the idea that this could happen to an innocent child. That's often too often someone is needless escapegoaded for that death, the death of a child. And this time it was two people, two loving parents who still don't forget they had two other children, two boys.
So the first night they stayed with our friends, and then after that they were thrown into a country orphanage because the country government was concerned that we had trafficked to them, even though our kids had US passports and adoption documents which were used to get them visas and.
Some of the photos that would put in evidence, which is insane that anyone wuld think they're trafficking. It's like, here's Matt and his family horseback ride. Here they are on a family vacation. When they're saying, you know, Glory doesn't have access to water. Oh, here's our en sweet bathroom.
Here's actual water bottles next to her bed. I mean, it just none of it could be put together to make any sense except for what the truth was, just an average American family with adopted kids and an overseas job.
Poor kids were traumatized, I mean and retraumatized. Right, First they lose their their sibling, and then they lose their family, and then they're in an orphanage and then they're.
Right, and you have to remember they're already orphaned once, right, so trauma.
Right, So this is retraumatizing yet.
And they also don't speak Arabic.
So the two boys were once again without parents, now though in a strange land where they didn't even speak the language. I guess if there is a silver lion, the only one is that they had each other. So how long did this orphanage situation last?
It took about four months to get the kids out of the cutty orphanage and then they had a travel ban on them, so my mother in law came to Qatar to come take care of them. After about four more months, they were permitted to leave the country.
Right, which couldn't have happened soon enough. Meanwhile, you and your wife are stuck in a Katari jail where I'm going to imagine you felt terribly isolated, not understanding Arabic.
Well, because you have people from everywhere. It's kind of broken English and broken Arabic are kind of the language in practice inside the jail. I ended up being in the jail for about ten months. I spent a lot of time praying, reading my Bible, just hanging out with guys, because honestly, it felt like a college dormitory at least
in terms of the relationship with the other guys. Two thirds of the prison are people who feel like everyone you're going to run on the street, that were on trial for things that were so absurd.
There are one that sticks out in your mind.
There was one guy who was clearly scammed, and they arrested him for theft and convicted him of theft because they said, okay, fine, bring the scammer to court. Well, the scammer wasn't even in the country.
During Matt's trial, your brother or brother in law.
My brother in law.
Yeah, your brother in law was arrested for taking a photograph of the courthouse because that is an illegal act and they had to sign confessions in order to be released.
I think a third of the people in there are actually factually innocent, that's my best estimate. And another quarter are in there because of out of wedlock sex cases.
Which wow, a quarter of them. Yeah.
In general, out of wedlock sex is illegal in most of the Gulf Arab countries and typically they would get arrested if they were with a maid in usually a Katari home. A member of the household could file a case because there was a strange man in their house who had come to visit their maid, so they charged him with trespassing and without at locked sex, and they will almost always get a trespassing conviction even if they cannot demonstrate and out of wedlock sex conviction.
Don't visit there.
I mean, I think we've pretty much lost any chance we have of getting sponsored by the Katari Tourism Board. But that's the way it goes.
And there's definitely uneven persecution because we know that the Katari employees were raping their maids, but they would never go after the Kataris for that.
Whoao, So your Katari counterparts at work they were regularly raping their maids but weren't facing any consequences or being prosecuted. But people who were having consensual out of wedlock sex they're punished.
That's the definition of irony.
Again, I don't have any words. I mean, it's just too much. So what were the actual charges and when were you brought to court?
The first three months we didn't even know why we were in prison. We didn't know what the charges were. They were quote unquote investigating, but there was nothing that was set up. We would show up for a year, maybe once a month. Three months in they gave us first degree murder with the death penalty was the charge.
I've done death penalty cases in the United States and they are the hardest cases to do with the most amount of pressure. But still in the back of your head, you know there's going to be appeals, there's going to be time. Most people in the United States, actually on death rowt die of old age before they get executed. That is not true in the Middle East, and that is not what Matt was facing in this case.
How did you even find out about that?
So I was contacted by a guy named Eric Voltz, who has worked with a number of people who are locked up overseas, and I got involved in the case along with a team of lawyers. I got to actually fly out to Guitar to participate in proceedings and prepare witnesses for a trial, and it was the most surreal legal experience I've had in my career. When you're in a foreign environment, when you don't speak the language, there's
a whole nother layer of oppression, confusion, disorienting. I mean, in Matt's case, I felt disoriented when you're sitting in the courtroom and the trial is in Arabic and his wife, by the way, had to be completely covered during trial and weren't allowed to communicate with her. When you call the witness first, the judge would yell at him for a little while, then the prosecutor would yell at him for a little while, and then you got to ask questions.
There was no real court reporting. The judge would just yell to a guy in the corner whenever he wanted something written down. I mean it is a whole another level of you see how it goes so wrong, and on top of it, you have this whole political process
going on. And it was interesting working on Matt's case because I'd worked on Jason Perrocal's case in Nicaragua, and the problem with Jason's case was we had no relationships with Nicaragua, so we went to Congress and no one would help us because we have such terrible relations The problem with Matt's case is we had too many relationships with Guitar. We're shipping troops through there to Afghanistan, we have a military base there, and so getting assistance from
the US government was incredibly difficult. They just wanted to kind of monitor the process and see how things went, and so they'd show up in court, but they weren't interceding.
So you're managing the legal battle the political angle. What about media? Is that helpful or hurtful in a place like Qatar.
You know, I work a lot with people in Latin America and I literally advised them, don't make a big stink out of this case until we see if we can get you out of here without going through the political process or through the media process, because sometimes that media process actually locks in their position because now it's a global news story that these Americans are locked up. And that is what happened in this case. It became a global news story. In court, we had the BBC
was there, La Monde was there. The New York Times wrote multiple articles about this case, and it became a political hot potato.
So the Gautari's probably fell back in a corner and they forged ahead despite the gaping holes in their theory, and it took three long months to get the charges and then continued on from there. Now you had the legal team from the US, but you'd have to have some sort of local council assisting them, right, I can't even imagine what you spent on attorneys.
No to ask me, I mean.
But the other thing you have to remember is I never even spoke to my attorney other than like a minute or two before a court hearing, and none of the inmates in fact speak to their attorneys.
Huh.
And I'm going to choose my words carefully here to avoid a lawsuit. But I had some real concerns about the local representation the council that we were working with. Everybody there is under pressure from the government. The government has a lot of authority to make your life miserable, including if you're a lawyer. And we had some real challenges getting witnesses to come in and testify for fear of repercussions, including expert witnesses. We ended up having an
expert witness testify telephonically from outside the country. And yeah, that's a thing I have not come across in the United States that I have expert witnesses afraid to come and testify in a case that's against the government. But that definitely was going on there.
So, yeah, let's talk about the trial. It was kind of done piecemeal. It seems like over the course of about ten months. They had the alleged autopsy with pristine organs, right, so not an autopsy at all. Then there was this racist police report calling black children ugly. I can't with this shit. It called them ugly and went on to imply that they therefore couldn't be worthy of adoption. Now, this was an official report, which which was basically the
disgusting motive behind the entire prosecution. And then, as we mentioned before, in defense, there were the actual adoption documents, the family photos, including pictures of her clear access to water, when the theory was that Gloria was trafficked while being starved and dehydrated to death for her organs. I mean, this was the Katari's case against the lungs and their literal lives were on the line. So what else was presented? And was this a jury trial?
There's no juris in this country, so you know it's a judge. First of all. Most of the time the translator was so bad. Whatever they said did not make any sense. Usually we got the last sheet of the notes from the court recorder given to us later in the day. The woman never had any of that. And in the jail there are enough inmates that speak both Arabic and English to help a last look at it
and say, oh, that's what happened. You know, I have read some of the proceedings and I've seen the case notes, and it seems like with a limited translation that I had that when they brought someone in for evidence, there would be some detective and they said, we heard some other person say this, but there's no opportunity cross examined. They won't even say who this person that they talked to is. So that's not evidence, and so after being there for about ten months and the prosecution rest of
their case, we were able to present our case. We brought some of our friends up as witnesses.
As we established in court and established through experts is it was factually impossible for her to have starved to death, because there were witnesses that saw her running around the days before she passed away. And when someone starves to death, they slowly slow down and then stop moving, and then they stay alive for a long period of time and then they pass away. So it was not only a ridiculous theory on its face, it was a ridiculous theory based on the facts of the case and what it
actually happened. One of the other crazy things in this case was kind of halfway through trial. I believe the judge started looking at this stuff and went like, WHOA, this guy didn't do anything. This couple did nothing, So they released them on their own recognissance in the middle of a death penalty trial. I believe they did that because I think everybody would have been happy if Matt and his wife had just fled the country and then the whole political problem goes away.
But then you didn't flee the country. So were you ever actually convicted.
We did not get our conviction till after we were already out on our recongnaissance.
As I recall, there were about eight cases up for results that day. They went through all the other ones, and the judge explained the verdict, and in your case they just said three years and that was it. And there was no real ruling or explanation, because you know, how did a death penalty case become a three year case? And what's the foundation for that conviction?
But they didn't say three years in English? So did you realize what had happened at the time that had happened?
They were just going off and reading all these things in Arabic and I had no clue what was going on. At some point they excused everyone and our team pulled us out and I said, okay, so what did they what happened? What did they.
Say, like in the hallway or something they told us in the hallway, we told you were senden to three years.
The first thing they said is we're not quite sure what happened.
That's comforting. You're like maybe death, maybe life, maybe three years, maybe nothing. Maybe you're free.
Yeah, I mean and I said, well, what did they convict us of?
The manslaughter?
They're like, uh, we don't know.
I'm so glad you could laugh about this now, Matt.
They just gave you three years without explaining what it was. Yeah.
Oh, I was not in good shape at that point, and I mean I remember being just so frustrated and so angry and just feeling completely hopeless, you know, because it's like, Okay, what happens now? Are they spying on us? Are they gonna arrest me in a minute? You know, in many ways, I was reicidal, and I remembered like saying, Okay, I'm just gonna go jump on the golf and try to swim away. They convicted us with a sentence of three years, but they did not even tell us what
we are convicted of. And in Qatar there is double jeopardy. So we appealed our conviction, and the prosecution appealed their conviction.
So you end up with this three year says what does that look like? Did you end up having to serve the three years? What was what happens after that? Did they take you away in handcuffs?
So basically, the attorney filed some paperwork requesting that we would not be reincarcerated at that point, So we went to appeals court or the equivalent of appeals court, and the prosecution again requested the death penalty, and we went through the whole thing again.
At that point, as I recalled, the US government did get more involved. The Department of State issued a statement saying that they were extremely disappointed in the Qatari judicial system and this result, and I remember it's Secretary of State getting involved.
And so you go back for the appeals and what happens in the second trial.
So at the end we were acquitted, the prosecution having the option to appeal again to the Supreme Court.
What do you attribute the acquittal too, because presumably they were presenting the same nonsense that they were presenting before. What do you think happened to change it? They were innocent, and yeah, that's intin a lot of people are. It doesn't but.
Well, exactly a lot of people are innocent. I think this goes back to what I was saying earlier is what we do see in cases is sometimes a police officer jumps the gun, and in the United States, as you and I both know very well, sometimes that does lead in a wrongful conviction. But a lot of times what happens in the United States is one idiot cop does something stupid, but it goes to court and gets dismissed. There's lawyers that come in, everything's checked out, there's prosecutors
that actually do dismiss cases in this country. And I think a lot of times overseas, and particularly what I believe happened in Matt's case, is once they went down the pike on this case, it just keeps going. And I think that the politics get involved in it, and you're like, whoa, you arrested American couple and charge them
with murder, Like what's going on here? And now it becomes sort of a cover up for all the bad stuff that's happened because I believe the judge believed they were innocent by releasing them on their own recognissance, and then the judge doesn't convictim of murder and sentenced them
to death instead sentence them to three years. I'm talking about again, another little cover up of like we got a convict him of something, because we've gone through this whole charade, and now at some point that charade got broken through via I believe the political process involving the United States the Court of Appeal. But at some point the breaks got put on and they said, okay, let's just end this thing.
So finally you're acquitted. Now, how much time has elapsed since this terrible incident where your daughter passed away?
Twenty three months?
Twenty three months and now you're acquitted, but they can still try you again. So did you leave the courtroom and go directly to the airport. That's what I would have done.
Maybe we had the meal or something, but you know, I mean, yeah, and we scanned our passports and they would not let us go through.
Huh.
I should mention that we had the US ambassador walking us through security.
Well that's the point where the US government got involved to get them out of the country and they came home. There's actually a beautiful video I don't know if Matt.
Knows this that's online to your reunion with your kids. They'd been apart from their kids for all that time. Really really super tragic. One thing that came full circle. Though this was ten years ago.
Matt's son actually interned at the California Innocence Projects summer as a college student.
Wow, that's fantastic.
Yeah, just amazing kids, the sweetest kids. That to me was the most heartbreaking part of the case.
Well, Matt, you must be very proud of and I'm sure this experience, it must have facted as a catalyst for the interest in reforming our criminal legal system as we have so many of our own problems in the US now at this point, is there anything that you'd like to ask of our audience or any hope to have for positive change in the world.
I wish there were a way to expand this innocent movement to certain other places in the world because there is so much going on in other places. I am very grateful for all the folks in the US that do this, but it's needed not just here but everywhere else too.
I certainly second that, my friend. That's what that's really where I've shifted my work is to Latin America.
We now have.
Thirty innocence organizations down there that I helped get started. And yeah, we're in the nineteen eighties. In Latin America. There hasn't been DNA testing, there's no preservation of evidence. There's much worse. Trained lawyers, trained judges. It has become a global movement, but it's still very Anglo. We've got projects in the UK, we've got a handful in Europe, we've got a couple in Asia, We're in New Zealand, Australia, US, Canada.
So it's still a very Anglo movement by and large, and so we have a lot of work to do. This should be truly a global, multi language, multicultural movement because there's no such thing as a perfect criminal legal system. They all need help.
Amen to that. And you've written a book about your work and the very real danger that we all face. It's called you might go to prison even though You're innocent. I highly recommend it, and we're going to have it
linked in the BIOT. And now that brings us to closing arguments, where I first thank you both for sharing this very moving story, and then I'm just gonna turn off my microphone, kick back in my chair with my headphones on, and close my eyes and just listen to anything else that you feel is left to be said. So let's start with Justin and close it out with you, Matt.
As you know, Jason, I've been lucky to be part of forty exonerations and this case has really stuck and it's stuck with me so much that I've got a
section of the book about this case. I think it is very powerful when you've spent your career working in one system to go into another system, and it really burns indelibly in my mind that experience and that, however many failings there are in our criminal legal system, and I know there are many, there still are worse systems in the world, and unfortunately Matt and his wife and his family stumbled into one when they just did what
a lot of people would do in life. Get an opportunity to work overseas, have a great job, take your family, and it turned into this nightmare. So I think there's a lot to learn from this case, and I'm so glad that that, Matt, you had the courage today to talk about it. So thank you for that.
Thank you for having me on the show. You know, it's been a while since I've had a chance to share, and it's just.
Nice to be able to kind of.
Reflect on the good things and the bad things, and you know, at this point we're doing well. Life has not been perfect. But one thing I've struggled with through this is some mental health struggles. Want to encourage people who have been in our shoes going through hard times, get help, reach out.
You know.
Our church of both in Qatar and in la and afterwards, have just been so wonderful. When we were in prison, I saw the way that they came around us to support us financially, taking care of physical needs, and we were just totally blessed by that, and I just wanted to say thank you to all those who have helped.
And I would say I still have a desire to travel, but maybe not back to Qatar, you know, because I do reckon recognize that there is a lot to be learned from the world around us and how different people are and how different people live, because there are so many things that people do differently that can help encourage and improve our own lives. Unfortunately, I think we also see through our case the bad.
Side of that too.
At the end, I'm just grateful to God and to those who have supported us that we were able to get through this and continue on.
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor Hall, Annie Chelsea, and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and Jeff Cliburn. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR
nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all social media plaslatforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at It's Jason Vlahm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one