On the night of May ninth, nineteen eighty six, a young mother was showering when a masked, knife wielding man snuck into her Garden District apartment in New Orleans. When he attacked her in the bathroom, he threatened that he'd hurt her eight year old son if she didn't cooperate. Moving to a bedroom, he put a t shirt over her head, forced her to perform oral sex, and raped her twice. Plenty of seminal fluid was collected in a rapekit, as well as her undergarments, but this was before the
era of DNA testing. Additionally, the assailant's blood type could not be detected, so the investigation hinged on her limited description and a composite sketch. Six weeks later, seventeen year old Sullivan Walter was arrested for an unrelated burglary. While he was in custody, one officer felt that Sullivan was a match for the composite sketch of the rapist. Upon viewing his photo, the victim agreed, but this is wrongful conviction.
Welcome back to wronful conviction. Today we're speaking to a man who is a child when he was wrongfully convicted, and his case is a perfect example of how solid proof of innocence can fail at setting an innocent person free. And that's exactly what happened two years after Sulown Walter's conviction, but yet he spent over thirty four more years in Louisiana corrections. Sullivan, I'm honored to have you here with us,
even though I hate the reason why you're here. But welcome to the show, yes, sir, and joining him is the legal director of Innocence Project New Orleans, otherwise known as IPNO, a great organization that deserves your support. Richard Davis, thank you for being here and welcome back to Wrongful Conviction.
Thank you.
So all of this took place in New Orleans, which, under the DA that oversaw this caseous DA Harry Connock Senior, New Orleans became the most incarcerated city and the most incarcerated state in the most incarcerated country in the world, probably in the history of the world. And so, knowing that the story you're about to hear, unfortunately will come as no surprise. And Sullivan, you grew up in New Orleans, right.
Yes, I grew up in the city of New Orleans. My mother was the mother of eleven the tenth of eleven children. My mother had kids in a previous marriage, and some of the kids were being raised by their father, and my mother and my father separated when I was very young. My mother raised me and my younger sister and my brother right over me as a single parent. I didn't do well in school. I would find ways to get out of school and just hang around in the neighborhood. I grew up in a high crime area.
You know, I just found myself having more of a family in the streets than what I actually had at home. My family didn't have much, so you know, I found myself resulting to you know, criminal activities. You know, I mean nothing major, but just in order to you know, have some money in my pocket or pair of shoes, pear of pants or something, just to try and make up where you know, my mother wasn't able to.
And so you had at least been processed for that behavior and your fingerprints were on file, et cetera. And so that brings us to the summer of nineteen eighty six, when you had just turned seventeen.
Yeah, I was arrested for burglary and it occurred on Laurel Street, Law and Amelia. I mean, it's uptown New Orleans, and it was basically just household items, stereo equipment, small stuff, you know, cameras, something like that. The burglary occurred on a Saturday. I was arrested Monday morning.
Do you know how they honed in on you?
Yeah? I was picked up because there were a window pane that my fingerprint was actually found on. And while in police custody, you know, that's what led to me being I was with a cram that I had nothing to do.
With, right, And this burgulary happened on June twenty first, nineteen eighty six. When the police got you the rape person on Monday morning, June twenty third, But then somehow signals got crossed, lanes were switched, and you ended up spending thirty six years in prison, now for the burglary, but for a rape that occurred about six weeks earlier, on May ninth, nineteen eighty six, in the Garden District neighborhood of New Orleans. Richard, can you fill us in on what happened that night?
So, on the night of May the ninth, May tenth, nineteen eighty six, a woman was cleaning her home. The only other person in her home was her young zahn, who was sleep. She was showering after doing some cleaning and was disturbed by someone breaking in, and that person attacked and raped her. At all times during the rape, the person either was covering their face, or the lights were off, or they were threatening the victim of knife
point not to look at him. And so while it was a fairly traumatic experience for her, it was one in which I was actually a limited opportunity to observe the person who attacked her.
Right, And as I've read, not only did the assailant have half of his face covered by a washcloth, but then after dragging her out of the shower, it's like a horror scene, he put a t shirt over her head and he threatened her at knife point to collaborate or he would hurt her eight year old son. Then he took her into a bedroom where he forced her to perform oral sex and then vaginally raped her twice.
It's just it's awful. But despite both of their base coverings, she was able to tell the police some detailed right.
Yeah, so the victim described it as a young assailant. She fo eighteen to twenty years old, five to eleven, slender with thick eyebrows and a Jerry curl. The reports of a night of a crime is which she said the attacker had stubble, but there are two different police documents showing she told two different offices on the night of crime that it was an assailant with like two
to three days beard growth. And then there was a composite sketch he did a few days after for crime with police sketch artist.
Okay, so either some stubble or two to three days growth, but facial hair growth varies, so these descriptions could mean the same thing depending on who you're talking to. And then the victim said that the assailant was wearing a baseball cap.
Yes, and she described it as a blue baseball cat, but nothing else distinctive about it.
So, Sulliban, how did you compare to this description?
I am, in fact five to eleven. I was very then. I didn't have a Jerry curl. As far as facial hairs, prior to my arrest, I'd never grown facial hairs.
Right for a seventeen year old, that's not surprising.
Yeah, I had just turned seventeen.
So even though your age heights get into an end build were similar, your lack of facial hero at the very least not having a Jerry Curl should have ruled you out or cast at least serious doubt on this, but clearly it did not. Now, six weeks passed after the rape, before you became a suspect. Did the investigators have any other leads during that time?
There are some indications of the officer's notes they may have had other suspects, but we are never able to figure out what those notes meant for sure. From his interviews with the victim, he come to believe it was an experienced perpetrator. There was also some indication that someone who seemed to match for description or for complete sketch had been loitering around the area of the crime beforehand.
But the composite wasn't all they had to go on, right, this was a rape, So what about the physical evidence? There was a lot of it.
The perpetrator was ejaculated twice during the rape, and so this was, you know, a good scene for forensic evidence. They did for normal sexual assault exam and also collected the undergarments for the victim had worn after the crime and based on the victim's sexual history, any product detected was coming from the perpetrator, and so the items were quickly tested by the police department.
Grant that this was nineteen eighty six, so they were only working with sorology in not DNA, and if understand this correctly, the undergarments were tested by Harry O'Neill, a criminalist working with NOPD the Orleans Police Department, while Patricia Daniels with the Cornor's Office tested the rape.
Kit, so he's a two separate test, but they're both coming to the same conclusion, which is they cannot detect any blood type activity in the seminal stains and spumtazoa found on the evidence.
So with zology there are really only two ways to narrow down a field of suspects. Blood typing like ab ab and O and then secretor status, which refers to whether or not your blood type shows up in other bodily fluids like semen or saliva.
The majority of the population secretes their blood type into our bodily fluids, but some percentage of the population doesn't. And value from these two different tests and not finding any indication of blood type being secreted into the bodily fluids of perpetrata.
So the assailant was among the twenty percent of the population who are non secretors, which unfortunately is quite convenient for the assailant, but secretor status still offers a way to narrow a field of suspects, if only to the exclusion of eighty percent of the population. So this was all the police had to go on, along with a composite sketch from a victim who really didn't get a great look at her assailant. So how did they land on Sullivan?
Officially, what happened in the investigation is six weeks after a crime. As the police tell it, an officer working in the burglary case was doing a fingerprint check Sullivan from the burglary case saw his photo, thought, gosh, this
guy looks a lot like this composite sketch. Even though he doesn't look that much like the composite sketch, we should probably consider him a suspective his untold rape we've had from six weeks earlier, and so an officer in the print unit supposedly coming up with his reka moment. This is the basis by which the detective from the rape case goes back to the victim with a photo of Sullivan.
So this composite sketch didn't really look like Slovon, yet their focus still landed on him. Sullivan, how do you remember this all going down?
Well, the burglary, I was being about it. They wanted to know what the property was, They wanted to know if there was someone else involved, and when I didn't cooperate, well, ultimately I was threatened that if I didn't cooperate and if I didn't tell them what they wanted to know, then they would see to it that I was given a life sentence. I mean, they didn't mention the crime that I would be punished with. They didn't question about a rape, you know, so they played good cop, bad
cop and threatened me. You know, I didn't have an adult present, I didn't have an attorney present, and they had me to take poto rod pictures a certain way with a baseball cap on turned to the back. And I had no knowledge that this was the actual description that was given of the perpetrator of the rape charge that I would later be charged with.
So after he has been booked on the burger and they've taken these photos. The detective go see the victim with a photo array and the photos they've taken. We don't have recording of this procedure. It's a cross racial
identification procedure. Is also being administered by the detective who knows how the suspect is, which you know, now you would have to do an identification double blind, even without any deliberate malfeasance if a person knows who the suspects had influences for witness making a description and Howard is
described later and again we have no recording. Is for the victim views a photo array, picks out Sullivan in some form and is then shown I believe, polaroids of Sullivan in the hat, which kind of reinforces the identification as a kind of like well, and he wore his hat like this too, So at the end of his identification procedure, the victim is making an identification of Sullivan.
So we have no idea what kind of suggestions were being made to the victim. And then add to that the toxic fact that it was cross racial, which study after study has proven is less accurate than guessing.
This is one of the challenging things about the cases. We do not have the photo oray he was identified from, and we don't even know with any certainty what photo of they had of Sullivan and raided alone, who were fulfillers, and if they looked anything like him or not. We don't have the photo lineup, so we don't actually.
Know so Jerry Curl's in facial hair or not. They got their cross racial misidentification while Sullivan was already being held on the burglary charge. Now, Sullivan, when did you find out about the rape charge?
After being charged with a burglary while in Central Laga? Either the following day or day after that, I was taken back down and I was charged with another burglary, a rape, two council crime against nature, which was all one case, and this was the rape charge.
And after finding out a bit more about this charge, were you able to remember where you were at on May ninth?
I mean, I was arrested six weeks after this rapehead occurred. So how would be lying if I said, well, I was here, I was there six weeks ago. I don't know where I was at six weeks ago.
And you're barely seventeen, so it's not like you had a daily planner or like a you know, a calendar like we all have on our phones now these days. So you weren't sure where you were on that day, but it certainly wasn't the garden district. Did they try to corroborate the identification with the physical evidence.
So they took blood and saliva from Sullivan pre trial apparently, so charge first, do the science later, and according to report of a time, they somehow fouled for sample so badly they didn't even detect Sullivan's blood type, so at a time of trial they didn't know his blood type, let alone whether he's a secretor or not. And then at the eleventh hour, right before trial, they disclose this evidence of the perpetrator was a non secretor. But the case goes ahead to trial anyway.
So at this point the prosecution didn't get a second sample from Sullivan to be sure that they had the right person.
But also law says that state needs to give stuff to defense in enough time for them to be able to use it.
So what's the answer to the million dollar question? I think I can actually predict this, but go ahead.
My blood type is B and I am a secretor.
So it was fully impossible that you could have committed this crime.
As far as we can tell, no one knows all of a secreteors state us at this time, they just plowed ahead with the trial. And I think you've got a wonder do you in fact not want a scientific answer because it might contradict your witness.
Nevertheless, the trial began and ended on the same day, December two, nineteen eighty six. The NOPDS criminalist O'Neil unwittingly testified to your innocence at trial that the assailant was a non secretor, but no one cared to discover, let alone make the jury aware of your secretor status. Makes sense for the prosecutor. They already ad an identification from the victim. After all, she.
Got understand and they asked us some questions about the crime and asked us did she see the perpetrate on the court. She said that I was the perpetrate at the.
Crime and without knowing your secretor status or your whereabouts on May nineteen eighty six, this was probably an easy decision for the jury.
I mean I was in and out of trial within an hour or so. I mean the state presented the physical evidence. They presented the expert witnesses, they presented the victim. It was never any day presented on my behalf and I was found guilty.
And then you were sentenced to thirty five years in prison.
I mean, it was so disturbing to me. My family was unable to help me. I had nobody to come and give me advice. I was seventeen, so I couldn't began to try and figure this out, understand this. I didn't think that this could happen to me. I didn't think it could happen to anybody. It was like, man, this can't be real.
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After being convicted. To have to go to prison for a rape crime. You know, this is one of the most degrading crimes that a man could be charged with in prison, other than child molestation. You're an outcast. I mean, you don't have friends. You're pervert. However they want to describe you, then that's what it is. So this he has a real effect on a seventeen at eighteen year old because now you got to try to find ways to protect yourself. And you know, my only host was, man,
this is gonna be fixed. And then my lord, he tells me we're gonna be able to get you out of here. I'm gonna get you out of here. I'm gonna test you and we're gonna present your blood results, and I'm gonna get you out of here. So that's all I was hoping for, my dear court.
So that's an initial appeal after the trial, which the sole issue he lawyer raises in the only files of three and a half page brief is that he got the blood typing report too late to be able to use it. The court tends it back with an instruction, but you need we need to figure out this guy's blood type and figure out if he was prejudiced by the late disclosure of the perpetrator's blood typing information, because obviously, if it was a match, puss out, it's kind of
a no harm, no foul, It didn't hurt him. But if it doesn't match him, then it's terrible. But the prosecutor waits hill the morning of it's too late to use it to tell him this information. So then in January nineteen eighty eight they confirm that he is a type BEE and that he secretes his blood type into his body fluids.
So therefore I was the total opposite of what the state head actually identify in open call. You can determine my blood type, dom salavo do my seminal fluid. I am a SECRETA.
And so this then goes to a hearing of promotion for a new trial to determine well, we've now shown that sal has been prejudiced by this late disclosure because his blood type doesn't match. And so this goes to a hearing in nineteen eighty eight, and at this point the analyst who had said a trial, well, the evidence indicates it was a non secretor suddenly is now saying, well, I don't know, maybe like I missed for stain and was testing something else. I can't really say anything about
whether the person was a creator or not. Now there has been zero change in the evidence between when a trial he says the evidence indicates non secretor and here two years later when he's in court saying, well, I can't really say anything about this. If he had a genuine concern about his prior testing, has nothing to stop him from having retested the evidence. Then the only thing that has changed is but now it doesn't help the prosecution for it to be non secretor, because we know
that Sullivan is a secretor. And so the defense lawyer doesn't ask him any questions about his prior testimony from the trial, and doesn't present any evidence, and then doesn't call any expert of his own, and at the end of this for court waits for a while, and then with no real explanation, says that Sullivan isn't entitled to a new trial.
At this point, Sullivan was entitled to an appointed lawyer for the appeal of that decision, but that lawyer simply did not follow through. For four years. There was no communication, sharing of documents or strategy, nothing. And then when the Court of Appeals recognized the dereliction and appointed a new lawyer, it took two more long years before the motion appeared before the court, this time filed on behalf of Walter Sullivan,
not Sullivan. Walter so already off to a just a great start, right, I mean, I hope you sounded like I was dripping with sarcasm because I was. And another denial came in September of ninety five. But in ninety seven the Louisiana Supreme Court agreed that the appeals Court had been using the wrong legal standard, as if this new evidence had just been found from a neutral source, rather than that this was a late disclosure by the state, which constituted a material Brady violation.
The Court of Appeals been told by the Louisiana Supreme Court, you've got to analyze this under the rules for a non disclosure rather than just evidence found from a neutral source. The Court of Appeals does actually get the legal standard wrong a second time.
This time they based their denial on O'Neill's altered testimony from the motion for a new trial rather than his trial testimony. That the assailant was, unlike Sullivan, a non secretor.
And then after this ruling, the court appointed lawyer doesn't take further appeal to really easy on the Supreme Court or any kind of a federal court. And so this is it for Sullivan in terms of getting lawyers provided by the state.
And I mean, do we have this wrong? Nothing was filed again until twenty twenty one.
Between nineteen ninety seven and twenty twenty one. No one is helping Sullivan.
Oh God, Sullivan, I mean you touch a quarter century. I mean you talked about how hard it was for you in prison, even when there was some hope for you in post conviction. But that's a long, bleak stretch of a lot of years.
As I just explained to you, being in prison as a sex offender is not easy. It's not easy at all. Not only the population, but you also have the officers you have to deal with. And then you had the work expect of prison. I mean they digging ditches and picking and farm vegetables, stuff that I had never done before in my life. So I didn't know anything about none of this. So I stayed in and out of lockdown, in and out of I'm locked up because I didn't know how to do the work, and I'm trying to
adjust to this. And then my family, you know, every now and then somebody else would come, but mostly it was my older sister, my mother. Sadly to say, my mother never visited me while I was in prison. And then my sister dies and nobody's coming to see me. It's hard, you know what I mean, I'm in prison for years, years upon years. My biggest fear in prison was that I didn't want to die in prison for something I didn't do. So I'm trying to take care
of myself. I'm trying to stay healthy, and I'm trying not to stress and worry. So I'm just there. I'm existing. It's not living. You know, I didn't have a life. I was just existing and I lost my father, I lost my mother. Man, it was a time I actually went over a decade and didn't get a visit. You know, Nobody came to see me, nobody tried to help me. I didn't have the knowledge and education to, you know,
go about helping myself. And I don't really know how I managed to do it, but I just believe that God put it within me to subvive this situation. And the only thing I could think about is not dying in prison, getting out and someday trying to find a way to prove my innocence because I mean, man, I was young, I was on drugs, I was in the streets, I was stealing. You know, one thing, I know, without a doubt, I would have never raped in anybody. I
would have never committed a rate. I know that without a doubt, and I just knew that, Man, somebody has to help me. But it just seems as if it wasn't gonna happen, because it went from ten years to twenty years and then thirty years.
So Hypno was established, and it's a project New Orleans in two thousand and one. Had you ever reached out to them?
No, I had no knowledge of the inn some project New Orleans. I knew nothing of them. I can remember in two thoy and nineteen, you know, they had started the Kiosk machine. People get letters and stuff through the Kiosk machine and do like man, because dudes used to see, man, I ain't never used to write nobody. I never received mail, nothing. I mean, so a friend of mine had told me. The dud was like, man, you need to set up the Kiosk machine because you can get pictures of your
family or you know, you can get letters. And really, in my mind it's like, man, ain't nobody gonna write me, Ain't nobody gonna send me no pictures?
So man, one morning, one morning I came in from work and I looked at the Kioska.
She and I had a letter mister Richard Davis, and it was like if you celeb reporters and you was charged and convicted with a rape in nineteen eighty six, and all of his paish, you need to contact my office immediately, you know, because it's how yes, you know you've been subjected to an injustice, Richard.
Could you have ever imagined just one email from you carried this much weight.
I wish we had a system where we didn't make any kind of adition. I wish the system ever convicted him, but I wish I we absolute minimum they dealt with him in nineteen eighty eight, when I was five years old and I'd never met him. I liked Sullivan a lot, but I wish i'd never met him. I wish we had a system that treated his life as important enough that it was dealt with just like competently conscientious professionals.
Long before I was even doing this work about the system people deserve, and it's not the system they have.
Unfortunately, I have to agree, and this case also could have been resolved much sooner had Sullivan been sentenced differently during this awful span of twenty four years nineteen eighty seven to twenty twenty one. On the outside, the Supreme Court made some landmark decisions regarding juvenile justice, which ruled that mandatory life sentences and death sentences for children were a violation of the Eighth Amendment ban on Cruel and
Unusual punishment. But unfortunately release since Sullivan was sent to thirty five years instead of a life sentence, he didn't qualify the benefit from these new rulings. But a kind of much overdue confluence of positive developments did come along. So how did his case eventually reach your desk? Richard?
I had first read about Sullivan's case in I think twenty eleven. I was just doing legal research on another case about non disclosure of evidence, and I'd read the opinion and he was not very technical. Asia well, that's bullshit that they upheld for conviction in this case. So it's stuck in my head. And then ten years later there was a change to the law, which meant that I thought that was a way to represent the case potentially.
And then also the District Attorney's office had a civil rights division, and I knew they're particularly interested in people who had served over thirty five years in prison, So I began gathering files on the case of a point, I wrote to Sullivan, I just knew what was in the court opinion, and so I just knew what the police officer had said after it didn't suit them for
Sullivan to be a non secretor. And so but one of the first things I got was for trial truands, and it's like obvious guy's completely changed his opinion about the case based on what suits for prosecutor at any given time.
And then, as we mentioned earlier, the last denial in appeals court was wrongly based on O'Neill's altered testimony, but the carner had also had the same findings that the assailant was a non secretor. So it sure seems like O'Neill had lied, but you still got to prove that.
And so fortunately as a guy called Alan Keel, who I'd worked with as a DNA analyst, and before he was a DNA analyst, he was a zerologist, so he was willing to consult on the case, and so I'd
sent him more than materials. And then basically the reason it looked like bullshit that the guy changed his estimony like that is because it was and he is able to give a report explaining, you know, in scientific terms, that has no reason this guid should have changed his opinion and some of the reasons he gives for the second opinion he gives. If that was true, it really calls into question whether he should be any kind of a scientist at all. I mean, he's wrapping it up
in fancy was. But what he's essentially saying is, well, maybe I didn't get any secrete revidence because instead of testing the stain, I tested a bit of fabric next of the stain accidentally, which I mean, if you believe for a second that was true, why not go back and test me evidence again.
So you found a credible source in Keel to confirm what was clear to everyone that O'Neill's shady change of opinion at the motion for neutral hearing was total horseship. But it unfortunately upheld Sullivan's wrongful conviction long after his secretor status had proven his actual innocence, all the way back in January nineteen eighty eight, when Orleans Parish GA Harry Connick Senior was still in office, and after him,
Le Uncannizaro was unfortunately no better. However, in twenty twenty, Jason Williams was elected, ushering in a much needed and long overdue era of sanity.
So in early twenty twenty two, I presented this case to the Civil Rights Division, a woman Lame Melissa Montel, who immediately saw of that this guy should not be in prisoner. And so while I think the evidence we had found, I think if we had to litigate the case, I think Sulivan was eagerly entitled to have his conviction thrown out. The District Attorney's office actually signed off on agreeing to it. So this was a rare case where we could actually file a joint motion with the District
Attorney's office asking for court to vacate his conviction. And then judged Darryl Durbany, we went into court shortly before we filed it, explained the case to him and he's like, yeah, get this case to me. He understood that this is something he wanted to sign off on too, I.
Mean a judge, and he seemed to be very disturbed matters, and he made some statements quote unquote, he stated, there, you know, to say that this was uncashionable would be an understatement, you know, And he actually asked them, you know what happened. Why is it this guy has been in prison all these years after this physicaloeverness was presented on his behalf and then the prosecuting she was like, you know, man, this shouldn't have happened. These people actually lie.
And so you have Sullivan's conviction was vacated.
Yeah, well, luckily you have Jason Williams in office rather than Conic Senior or ely On Connizarro.
Leon Cannizero was a judge who denied the motion for a new trial after the blood typing came back proving Sullivan was a type beaty greeta.
Wait, wait, wait, so Connazaro, this character was the one who watched O'Neill blatantly lie about the evidence that proved your actual innocence and still denied your motion for a new trial. Right, and then became district attorney for the seventeen years following Harry Connock Senior. You know what, let's just move on to the good stuff. You had your conviction finally vacated in the summer of twenty twenty two.
It was in August August the twenty fifth, but the week prior to that, mister Davis called me and he told me that, you know, I was going to be going back to court and act I was going to be exonerated, and he asked me to see how you feel in that moment, you know, I told him, you know, I feel as if I could breathe, because man, for all the years, it was like I couldn't breathe. My whole life was taken from me. And as I said, I can't tell you what I would have done had
I not went to present. I don't know what would have happened to me in the streets. But what I do know with absolute certainty is I would have never raped the woman.
Ever.
That's one of the hard things about this case. Even though I'm out and I'm free, the victim is deceased, so I never see this woman. I'll never looked on her eyes, and she'll never know. And that my mother, my sister, These are people I would have wanted to know that I didn't do this, you know, I wanted
them to see that date. And this victim, she wasn't only a victim to a rape, she was also a victim to injustice as well, because, I mean, the criminal justice system didn't serve up because the perpetrate out of crime, Neville was brought to justice.
Yeah, you'd think that even just out of pure self interest, right for their own safety of their own families, right, You think that these folks in law enforcement would want to get the actual perpetrator off the street and save all the future potential victims from enduring a horrible ordeal like this poor person did this poor woman. But that's not what happened here with you, Sullivan, and in so
many other cases. So now you're out. I understand that you've got steady work, but is there a go fundme or some other way our audience can support you?
Well, well, my release. You know, the Anderson Project has a client service person who helps helps out and there were go fundme page.
All right, well, we'll make sure that we have that linked in the bio. And now, of course we've come to my favorite part of this show. I'll call it closing arguments, where I first of all, thank you both for being here with us and courageously sharing this incredible, harrowing story. I'm going to turn my microphone off, leave my headphones on, close my eyes, and kick back in my chair and just listen to anything else you guys
want to share, Richard, let's start with you and then Sullivan. Walter, you can take us right on out into the sunset.
So I think Sullivan's case, beyond his own story, of course, is just a real demonstration of how much power of the system gives people without expecting any kind of responsibility or foreigness. It's just the the incredible fecklessness with which his case was treated, and the incredible power they have to define his life or being incredibly careless about it. That's what I see is that you know, this is
not a well hidden injustice. This was right there in the open from nineteen eighty eight, and it just you know, a real staggering black to consider Sullivan a person worthy of care. You know, he's not asking for some kind of like extraordinary favor or kindness out system. Just the basic level of care is all it would have taken.
That anyone who hear my story, you know, if you listen and you hear my story, you know, all I ask is that you know you understand and know that you know these things happen and it didn't just happen to me, It happens to many people throughout the country. You know, people have been subjected to injustice and wrongful and canceration and put in prison for extended amount of times. And you can't make up for it, you know, I mean thirty six years. It's impossible to make up for it. So,
you know, life is very hard for me. But I live. I live, and you know, I just try to make the best of it, and I thank God for every day and I embrace life. I want to live, you know, I want to live. I want to live life to as full as but it's a real challenge.
You know.
I lost my mother, my father, my family. I don't have any kids, and I lost a lot. I'm fifty four years old. I don't have kids. You know, a lot was taken from me. You know, I just was denied a chance to live a life. And I believe that.
I know.
I don't believe it, I know it without a doubt. I'm a good person. I'm a good man, and you know I believe that I would have made the best out of life.
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team Connor hall Any, Chelsea, Lyla Robinson, and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Awardis, and Jeff Clyburn. The music in this production was supplied by
three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at it's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one