#373 Jason Flom with Elwood Jones

On Labor Day weekend nineteen ninety four, Rooda Nathan flew into Cincinnati for a bar mitzvah. She shared a room at the Embassy Suites in the nearby suburb of Blue Ash with two friends. On the morning of Saturday, September third, her friends went down to the complimentary breakfast, leaving Rhoda

Thanks Jason. I'm glad to be here as well.

So let's start right from the beginning. As I mentioned, this is a Cincinnati story through and through, and you grew up there, right.

I was born in Susinaoha. I grew up downtown in West the end. I went to Catholic school. My parents now moved to the suburbs in the later years.

And what was Cincinnati like back then?

You tell him about in the sixties, and what none spectacular about if you're talking about the criminal justice system is just as worse as it is now.

Yeah, I believe you.

There was a study that Hamilton County, by zip code, has more people on death row than anywhere else in the country.

Wow.

I think that in Cuyahoga County they had the same problem, as they have one or two or three prosecutors who think the rules don't apply and they shouldn't apply. There's probably a handful of three or four assistant prosecutors whose names keep coming up constantly in cases that have been reversed.

I mean, if you think about it, the rules kind of don't apply to any prosecutor. Their immunity from accountability leaves them free to chase the tough on crime image, and with this anything goes mentality, we too often see a trail of wrongful convictions in their way. And clearly Cincinnati was, and sad to say, still is no exception.

It's a very conservative city. And I understand that I get that and not believe in law and aught that I do, even though I was on the other side of the track when I became adult. A couple of times I was arrested.

What was that for?

It was? And burgery?

That was it? All right? So your record wasn't exactly clean, but no violent crimes. And I understand that by now you had paid your debt to society and had a job working at a hotel, steady job at the Embassy Suites in the Cincinnati suburb called Blue Ash, and you were in your early forties by this time, married, so things were stabilized. And what was your wife's name?

Ebon. I had a friend on the side, and I think there was another piece of the paws in tree that they used that I was having an affair. The name was Earlene Metcalff non Meta. In ninety four, Erlein.

Was one of Elwood's coworkers at the Embassy suites in Blue Ash, And obviously, I think most people would agree that although theft and infidelity are usually not items on the top of anyone's resume, they just don't merit a death sentence. These things are also not indicative of someone being the type of person to bludgeon another human being to death. In this case, a sixty seven year old

Nathan came in for her best friend's grandson's bar mitzvah. So she was traveling with a friend, Elaine Shubb, and her friend's boyfriend, Joe Kaplan, when the three of them were staying in the hotel together, and part of the state's narrative here is that Roda Nathan's friend and her boyfriend were coming from Florida and had checked in earlier in the day, just as two people Rode Nathan was

Wrote to Nathan in the room.

You know what I was reading about this? I thought, if the goal was to steal, then why not just pretend to be housekeeping and leave, you know, without murdering someone. I mean, at first glance, there's already a hole in the store you could drive a truck through. But okay, so I would hear from Elwood. I would tell me about that morning.

So when I came in that morning at four point thirty and brought Earleen to work, we clocked in I think it was about quarter to five. I usually come in early in the morning to help in the comp breakfast, and then I would go to the banquet department and finish my day out.

On that particular day, one of Elwood's coworkers had called out sex, so he had to pull double duty, floating between complimentary breakfast and the banquet departments. So after setting up camp breakfast, he went up to the banquet halls, which were not in the best.

They was trashed, so I had to clean them out and come downstairs. I think it was around six, and going to the dumpster, I tripped going up the steps to the dumpsters the metal stairs. Going up there, I smashed my hand. Come on back into the kitchen, clean my hand, put a band aid on it, and went on back to work. I think it was around eight or something. After that the scream was upstairs. I was in compbrepast. Everybody started going upstairs to see what.

Happened, and the scream, you know, presumably came from Elaine Shubb, who first came upon this literal here scene rode to. Nathan was naked, covered in blood, and the area around her was, you know, a bloody mess. So whoever attacked her would logically and certainly have been covered in blood.

Within the minute of this vicious attack, Elwood was standing in the restaurant, completely composed in the clothes that he was in, not disheveled in any way, not covered in blood.

Whoever did this had to have been covered in blood themselves.

Right, Jay and At this point, no one knew what happened. They were just trying to save Rhoda, who had blood pouring from her mouth.

I think the initial thought was that she had had a medical emergency, probably a heart attack or something along that line. The guest a Hotel who was also a nurse, they were trying to render her first aid.

She was still breathing and she still had a pulse, but she was struggling like she was I think, effectively choking on the blood. So one of the issues here is that they kept taking towels and trying to mop the blood out of her throat and out of her mouth to kind of clear the airway. All of those towels used to help clean up the room that would have had DNA on it were thrown out when.

Blue Ash Fire department arrived. I think they tried to intubate her, and that gets to another issue about teeth maybe being dislodged or broken out.

Later on, the States speculated that Rooda Nathan's broken teeth were responsible for the injury and the infection on ELA's hand. But back to the immediate aftermath. At this point, the room was not yet being treated as a crime scene. Evidence was being contaminated or destroyed, and new injuries were potentially being created by first responders and medical personnel that

What they reported in the autopsy was that there was Bluntfort's trauma and I think they said that there were blows to the torso, the face, and the jaw.

She also tested positive for hepatitis B right.

She was actively infected with it.

Although we cannot be one hundred percent sure. This suggests that she was infected with hepatitis B prior to the attack, and that became pretty important later on. However, as soon as her death was rolled a homicide, two thirty seven was then considered a crime scene, where they discovered that about five hundred dollars was missing, along with some jewelry, allegedly including a pendant necklace that Rhoda's traveling companion, Elaine Shubb,

So there were fingernails, scrapeigs, some hairs, things of that nature. There was blood all over the room, so they scraped it from all over the place, the television, the bed, the table, the carpets, the walls, the doors, et cetera. And there should have been direct evidence of whoever was involved in this crime, because you were going in there immediately after the killers.

DNA should have at least been under her fingernails. None of it was a match for Elwood. But before any of that was even tested, they started talking to staff and hotel guests, and they were leaning towards the staffer since there was no sign of forced entry. Oh you know how sometimes they focused on the guy just because they have a prior record. You think that's why they focused on you.

I really can't say, because it was at least thirty seven of the employees with criminal records, and some of them worse than mine. From the general managerone down.

Wow, So there was thirty seven all right, Well, listen, you know, more power to the hotel for giving guys a second chance and women too. Right, So when did you go in for your interview?

I think around eleven. I went up to be interviewed. It was Sogeant Lily John Latt, and I'm pretty sure it was Stokes in there there at that time, and they asked me what happened.

I wrote my statement, so you were free to go. But eventually they came back to you, seized and search your car, found or allegedly found items in your toolbox that they thought were incriminating. But that didn't happen that Saturday or even the next day.

Well, on the Sunday, I went to Lublin and was at Earlene's house, and I had a guy named Jimmy plus my radiate out seem the last person used my tub.

Bouts right, and what Jimmy saw or didn't see became very important later on in your case. And we'll get to that in a minute. So, Dave, what made them focus on Elwood.

What ultimately got the police and the state to start looking at Elwood, was that he had, as he mentioned earlier, cut his hand that day on the dumpster and then later when he kind of jammed it in the door, and a couple days later went to the hospital because it had gotten quite infected.

Since the victim had been beaten to death, one could expect that the assailant's hand might have been injured, and Elwood's infection and hospitalization drew unwanted attention to his coincidental hand injury, so police spoke to his treating physician, a doctor McDonough, and although this was a Strep A infection, there was another bacteria present in the wound called icinella, which is commonly found in human mouths. This spawned of

When They questioned me on the twelve. They didn't like my attitude when God told him that you asked me what idea that day? And I told you, And they say, what, you had a master key? And I explained to them, I say, every key in the hotel is a master key. I say, guests don't know they mastered the keys.

Wait, so every key was the same for every room.

Yeah, but they just didn't tell no what nuts. I thought it was crazy when I first found out about it.

It's kind of funny to think about now thirty years later. But they were all still metal plates for them to cut new keys when a guest would leave with the key or something like that.

They just didn't bother. Everything matched.

Well, I'm certainly glad it's not the nineties anymore. I mean, I can't get over that. So they already thought that you were their guy, so this probably looked to them like you were trying to deflect attention from yourself. Now. They also brought in your wife, Yvonne, on the twelfth as well.

Yeah, on the way to the police station, they told her say, well, by the way, you know your husband was having an affair. She said, well, I knew he wasn't coming home on time, she say, but all men are dogs in a sense, and that just shut that up. She one told me exactly what she told police, and the end of that.

Comes, that's a pretty understanding person that you were married to.

But did weird talk about that later? We just get through this. She stuck with me.

So they were probably telling her that to get her to turn on you. Right, it's not you don't need to be Columbo to figure this out. But Yvonne didn't bite. So they seized your car and initially just found a door chain that they later tried to say was some sort of a weapon. Right, And we'll get to that in a bit. But then, if I'm understanding this correctly, A day or so later, a Blue ash police officer named Michael Bray claimed to have found miss Nathan's pendant

Can I take this because this is a part that this is something I am really like.

This bugs me.

I wanted, Dave, I want to talk about Yeah.

So, so the story with the pendant. So the police went to pawnshops and ostensibly couldn't find this piece of jewelry anywhere. Then they took his car. They impounded it on the twelve. They then had it in their possess for forty eight hours before they took it to the coroner's office, and multiple people searched the car for hours

No.

Did he take a picture of the trunk open with the toolbox in it.

No.

He took a picture of the pendant in his hand with the car in the background, and then told people, look what I found in the car.

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Another officer flies up to New Jersey or New York with the pendant to meet with Rooda Nathan's family, and all of this is withheld from Melwood at the original trial. But the family looks at it and goes, that's not it. And then they tell the police officers look this pendant though it's a really unique piece of jewelry was made from some family rings, some heirlooms. And then they talk to another family member who we'd just refer to as Uncle Ira, who was Rhoda's brother in law, and he goes, no,

So their big smoking gun turned out to be total horseshit and they knew it. I mean, this has to be why they didn't arrest you for over a year. Now. There was one other item that we mentioned in your car, the door chain. What's the story with that?

It was a door chain inside of my tub box, and it's not no type of doorchain used in the hotel. The hotail used a boar chain. And the first thing I askeaid, What'd I do? Go out to my car get a tool chain. I need something to whooped this woman with. I say, doesn't it have some type of blood or provensis or something on it? I said, come on with the stop it.

So this freaking door chain wasn't even the type that would have been available in the room if somebody even wanted to use that as a weapon, which in itself is ridiculous. This was just some random ass door chain in your car. The whole theory is fucking ridiculous.

And that's not even the worst one.

One of their theories is they say that whoever it was beat this woman to death, not just with their hands and the chain, but then a walkie talkie and then hit them with multiple objects. In fact, the police officers for months were trying to send images to the FBI to get them to confirm, like, hey, this looks like it could be Elwood shoe, right, and they would come back and be like, no, no, this is not consistent.

With Elwood shoe at all.

In fact, it looks like it could be X and something that might implicate somebody else, And they'd be like, let's try again, how about the walkie talkie, And they finally got them to say something to the effect of the bruising is potentially consistent with something of that shape, so like a square or a rectangle, but that's as

I mean, a walkie talkie. How many other hotel staffers is probably haven't.

I'm glad you mentioned that we have several departments. Everybody have at walkie talkie. But that morning the police was given information of two people leaving this Nathan's room, one going left, one going right with a walkee Chlkie in his hand, and to the day, I feel that's where they got that theory of a walkie talkie. They never went back to try to find out who these two people was or where that walkie talkie is.

To the day, this is just one of many more compelling leads that were flatly ignored by Blue Ash PD in the Hamilton County Prosecutor's office. And we'll reveal more of those leads later when we talk about the discovery that happened in post conviction. It's mind boggling so instead they focused on Elwood Jones, who had access to a walkie talkie and a master key. But as we find out, so did everyone else. He had a criminal record, so

That day when I was arrested at the two Blue ass offices, Stokes and Lily, they put me in the car to take me the District one police station to take me in the back, and at that time they show me this picture and say this is what we found in your car. And I'm looking and I told me, I don't know where did penman come from? And you found it in there? You put it in there. At that time, Stokes get up and go out, said to do and talk on the phone, and he said he

He didn't bite. Wow, I mean, it seems like they thought their lie would make you cave and confess, And it might have worked on a man who was actually guilty, but it still wasn't you. And even with Jimmy or a mechanic corroborated that this pandem was not in the damn toolbox. Along with so much Brady material that we're

So they say, but that's okay, because circumstantial evidence is even better than direct.

Evidence, which no, well it is obviously not a third grader can tell you that. But anyway, they presented their theory that Elwood allegedly waited for a lane shove and Joe Coplan to leave room to thirty seven before entering being discovered by Rhoda Nathan, punching her teeth out and fatally beating her to death, and finally stealing five hundred dollars as well as jewelry, including this alleged signature pendant. So what did they present to support this theory?

They told the jerry that Ellwood was in the hotel that day, that he was on the second floor, that he had a master key, and that they purportedly found this pendant in his car, and that he had an infection in his hand. And the narrative that the state presented was that it was an Icinella Corridon's infection, and in fact that's not what it was.

There happened to be Kinella in.

The cut right, It was a strip a infection.

And this doctor, doctor McDonough, who was a hand surgeon with no expertise at all in microbiology or in infectious diseases, opined that the only way that Ellwood could have gotten this was by punching somebody in the mouth, which is just objectively.

False, but that's where the broken teeth come into it. They also tried to draw connections between miss Nathan's injuries and objects that might have been available to Elwood, but really they were available to any hotel employee, and there were dozens and dozens of them.

Their absolute junk forensics suggests that they were able to match up one of the bruises with the bottom of a walkie talkie and the scratches. The particular scratches on the bottom of the walkie talkie can be found in the bruises. It's completely fabricated. They took pictures of Miss Nathan's body during the autopsy and effectively skewed the pictures

They inexplicably then put four experts on the stand who would not corroborate their nonsensical weapons theory. But the state still had this random pendent that the jury was led to believe was the real McCoy, as well as doctor McDonald's erroneous testimony about Ikinella Ell. Would please tell me that your attorneys presented something anything to combat McDonough.

I mean, did they The expert day had he couldn't testify in person because he had some other arrangements, so they did it by video.

The way it played out is you don't have any way then once the state's expert testifies to call your doctor and say, hey, this is what he just said. What's your answer to that?

So this whole video testimony was never going to work, let's face it. And this expert was paid for, by the way, which makes it even a little more insane. So did they do anything else?

Julias Sanks was the leading attorney then, and he actually said some about my criminal record when I've still was lost to say I didn't even take the stand. Why would you put that in there?

Ineffective assistance of counsel doesn't even begin to cover this. So the I Cainela evidence and dependent both total horseship were never successfully impeached. And then your own attorney brought up your criminal record, leaving it wide open for the prosecutors.

The prosecutor say that I was the only employed with a criminal record, And at that time I knew it was some criminals in there. I didn't know as many as I found out mater when I got the documents, thirty seven people in there.

I mean, that's not a misrepresentation that they the jury. That's just a straight out lie, right, I mean, how could they? How could the jury have ever gotten it right when they're being led down this crazy.

Path doing post conviction a few affter Davids was taken to the jury. They said they noticed that I had a criminal record, so what make them think that I didn't commit this crime? And they came back in there and they said guilty and recommended death. Judge Winkler's got ready to send this to me, asked me, did I have anything to say? And I say I do? I say, yesterday Johanna, I say, even you in this courtroom offered

And when you say take a bath in yourself, what do you mean by that?

I wash up in my saint.

Right, that's a bird bath, right, this bird bath.

Well that's the best you could do. I got them washed up, and I saved my little prayer and I prepair my day. Six o'clock I would come out. Can you describe the cell small self? About eight by ten. You've got a bed in there, sank a tilet you can afford. You can have a TV typewriter in a radio, and that's about it.

So you're pretty much living in a closet.

In the cave is a filthy cave.

And of the men that you serve time with in there was there one who made a you know, an impression on you that that helped you get through this incredible ordeal.

Well, yes, he's off death row now too. De Ambrosil was best good friends.

We spoke with Joe on the show. Josie Ambrosio. What an incredibly inspiring guy and what a horrible, horrible story. But he's come through it and he seems to be doing as well as he possibly could be doing under the circumstances. So, Joe, if you're listening, we're thinking about you and talking about you too. So how did you find the strength, because I'm sure there are other guys who just go crazy in that situation and lose their mind and end up killing themselves or doing you know.

I've seen several guys on death ro commit suicide right there in the same part with the three guys I kept theirself and others. But I think what the main thing W gave me scrapt I knew in my heart I did nothing wrong. I lost the sister, I lost my wife, I lost several friends, my mother passed, and my father and all their uncles. And only thing that gives me hope and has gave me is to clear my name. And I could look up and tell my mother she can rest in peace. I understand Miss Nathan

And now here you are.

Yeah, and I'm still having got it fully back. That's all I want is my life back, and give me what little I had, and I'm happy and prosecuting them don't want to do the right thing.

So tell us a bit about how you got here and what's still left. Starting with your direct appeal they raised.

I think it was about I want to say about thirty two heirs. Some was in effected system new council. We were denied that all through state court. It wasn't withholding evidence until we got in the federal courts Brady validation.

And I think that was about two thousand and five when your case was moved to the federal Public Defenders.

They fell for a discovery in the federal courts and granted me saying that the prosecutor's police department and any agency who involved in this case had to turn over their records. As I was going through it, I begin to see things that I've never seen herd.

In the original discovery. I don't remember the exact number of pages, like two hundred and eighty six pages, something like that. I think there's over forty two hundred pages that they got in federal habeas and discovery. The questionnaires that were sent to all the hotel guests, and I think there were sixteen or seventeen of them that had i'll say good investigative leads.

The first thing I came across was the statement of two hotel employees, Dmitz Williams and Norman Ryan told the police they wouldness two guys coming out of that room, a black guy and the white guy, one going left, one going right. The black guy when he came out, he had a radio in his head. He was going left. They gave him a full description of what they had on both of them, and they toldly ignored. And there's nothing else in the files where the police did any follow up. Even the prosecuted.

There were a ton of tidbits will say that they learned, whether it was from interviewing staff about keys or things like that, that they just never ever followed up on. Obviously, the Anthony Lackey information Anthony Lackett was off on the day that this happened, but a shuttle driver who drove employees to and from an employee parking lot remember taking him back to his car that morning, and when he

Oh and mister Lackey also had an extensive criminal record, a violent records from assault of behavior in there.

Yeah, and this is what I meant earlier about more compelling leads. This discovery also revealed that the Blue Ash Police Department had gone to New York and New Jersey and spoken with the family about the pendant, which unraveled that lie as well. There was so much Brady material with health here that it's hard to even keep track, But there are two more that are huge.

The fact that wrote A. Nathan had hepatitis was not disclosed pre trial.

Elwood knew that they had taken blood for test, but they didn't tell him what they were testing it for. And they didn't ever report back that he had a negative hepatitis B result, where Rodeon Nathan had a positive result. And that's really important because, I mean, the reason EMTs wear rubber gloves is because the risk of infection from hepatitis B because it is so infectious.

So while he could have given himself like canella from licking his own injured hand, It's almost certain that Elwood would have tested positive for hepatitis B had he been the assailant. So the Blue Ash Police Department, Mark Pete Meyer, Seth Tiger, they all had scientific evidence clearing Elwood all the way back on September fifteenth, nineteen ninety four, when it really counted. And here we are, almost thirty years later, still trying to unravel this injustice. Oh wait, there's more.

No more.

I can't take it. I can't take it. But hang in there. They had another lead before a trial from a woman named Dolores Suggs, which didn't come to light, probably because they kept it in the dark until decades later.

Yes, that was in two thousand and sixteen. I had an email from Deloris Sugg's daughter Terror and she told me that her mother told her about. She was in jail and a woman named Linda Reed told her that her husband had killed this woman and framed a black man.

Delores Sugs is somebody who spent a very short period of time in the Hamilton County Justice Center in nineteen ninety five, and she was in there with Linda Reid, who confided to Dolores Suggs that Linda's husband, Earl, a white, red haired man from Blue Ash, had confessed to killing somebody in the Embassy Suites in Blue Ash and framing

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, But I read that Earle Read was quite cozy with the Blue Ash Police department.

He reportedly would get up in the morning and have coffee with the Blue Ash Police department. And there were a number of instances where I believe it's well documented he abused Linda Read. And there is a narrative that's part of the record here where severely beat her even after they were divorced or separated, to the point that she was in a medical facility and he was not

All of this information, the bevy of alternative and more likely suspects, including Earl Reid, Anthony Lackey, these two mystery men, as well as Dependent not being dependent, never mind it likely being a totally fabricated piece of evidence in the first place, and the irreconcilable hepatitis B test results. This was all information that they had at the time of trial.

So Jay was that at that point, working with the Federal Public Defenders, they filed the motion for a new trial. Judge Cooper said, yep, we're going to give you a hearing on it.

And finally all this Brady material would be heard altogether. Now, an election in twenty twenty brought in Judge Wendy Cross, and oddly enough, almost thirty years later, Elwood was facing Seth Tiger again. What stuck out the most about this.

Hearing standing up in a courtroom and calling a prosecutor by name Mark Pete Meyer a liar, outright line to put somebody on death row. That doesn't happen every day, no way. It really got under Seth Tiger's skin. It really bothered him, and I'm kind of glad it did. But it was for the wrong reason. He didn't have the ability to defend his his friend. And I think to me, what was overall remarkable about it the lack of any meaningful response from the prosecutor from a litigation standpoint.

And so on December twentieth, twenty twenty two, Elwood who were finally granted a new trial, and amazingly he got a bond set and were released on January fourteenth of twenty twenty three.

I had been turned down so many times in the court that I was totally lost for words that day. It's the thing about death penalty cases. People just don't want to touch them or do the right thing. I was totally shocked, but I was so thankful I got out. I did the two things I said I was going to do. I was going to kiss the ground, and I went to the cemetery to see my mother and tell us that you rest of peace. So and from that day, I'm still frightened.

The state is kind of doing everything that they can at this point too. It seems like to ignore reality. They've filed a petition for rid of prohibition, multiple appeals they've all been denied. It seems like they're doing everything they can to avoid having any kind of honest evaluation of the actual evidence, and they still want to litigate this and hold on to the conviction that they obtained in the nineties with only a tiny sliver of the evidence.

And I understand that if this does go to TRILI, you'll be facing Mark Pete Myer and Seth Tiger again, potentially in February twenty twenty four. So despite the obvious and sane choice in front of them, this is not one hundred percent over. Is there anything our audience can do to help.

Mark Pete Prior refers to people who support Elwood as his.

Groupies, Well, sign me up for that.

Yeah, I'll wear that badge. I think awareness let Hamley County Prosecutor's office know that it's being watched, and Melissa Powers is now the Hamley County Prosecutor. Maybe they can reach out to her by email, letter, call and leave a message and follow up and ask her what she's going to do to write this wrong. Maybe if she knows people are watching and people have an interest, that she can do the right thing and dismiss it.

So we'll have action steps of the bio. And now that brings us to my favorite part of the show, closing arguments. It works like this, I'm going to thank each of you again for sharing this incredible, incredible story, and then I'm going to kick back in my chair, turn my microphone off, leave my headphones on, and just listen to anything else you have to say. So, Dave, why don't you go first? Then Jay and then ell would take us off into the sunset.

It's important that people understand that although Ellwood has very graciously given Jay and I a lot of credit for this, there are a lot of.

People who have been involved over the years.

There's an entire unit of people at the Federal Public Defender's Office, the Capitol Habeas unit from Aaron Barnhart, Bridget Kennedy, tc Chansky. I have two colleagues at VORICE, Emily Saint Cyr and Zach Hollinger. You've got Dolores Suggs and Tierra Suggs, two experts, Doctor Burdett and Beth Moore. And you've got Judge Cross, who, frankly, I think a different judge in

Etc.

And trying to make this a political issue. And I think she sat there and just looked at the evidence and said, politics be damned. I need to make the decision that is just. And finally, to the prosecutors, I'm a little bit more cautiously optimistic that the new prosecutor will take a look at this.

Please take a look at this.

Let's have a conversation, let's talk about the evidence, because there's absolutely no reason to be having a second trial.

I won't repeat a lot of what Dave said because I agree with it, but I think the takeaway from this, I think you're going to find this as a common thread through the work that you do. You can guarantee that you will never commit a crime. You can in no way guarantee you won't be accused of committing a crime. And when you're accused and it's your day in the box, you want the system to work the way the system is supposed to work. You want people to follow the rules.

I'm very thankful for everyone who took their time, including you, to help add this and I'm hoping that I could have my little life back. And I would like to see the prosecutors be held accountable and two the whole prosecutors accountable for what they do to take in the man's life a woman's life. They gonna continue that need to change if you're going to bring change this system.

Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I want to thank our production team Connor hall Any, Chelsea, Maia Robinson, Jeff Clyburn and Kevin Warns. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction as well as at Lava for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow me on Instagram