#342 Maggie Freleng with Nancy Smith

I was there to take them home on time. You know, I had four kids. I didn't have time to play around. And then one day she was called into her boss's office. One of the children's mothers had made a shocking allegation against Nancy. They said that you didn't take her daughter to school, you took her daughter to a birthday party where you molested her. And I'm like, what what are you talking about. Then other parents started coming forward saying

the same thing, that Nancy had molested their children. Soon the allegations were all over the papers and TV. Things escalated until finally Nancy was arrested for multiple accounts of reape. They took me down to the police station. They put me in a holding sale and I can remember one of the detectives come up to the holding sale and he just gave me this really nasty look and he said,

you'll get what you deserve. I'm Nancy Smith. I was wrongfully convicted for fifteen years from Love of for Good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie Freeling today, Nancy Smith. Nancy Smith was born May twenty sixth, nineteen fifty seven, to Tom and Shirley Miller. She's one of seven siblings. The family lived in Lorraine, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland.

When Nancy was growing up, Lorraine was known as the International City, celebrating the thriving and diverse immigrant population who came looking for work in booming industries like steel production. It was, of course, much better when I was growing up than it is now. A lot of things have changed, but it's, you know, still Loraine today. Like many other Rust Belt cities, Lorraine has suffered from population decline and urban decay. But back in the fifties and sixties, Lorraine

was the ideal all American city. We've left a normal childhood. Oh, we used to play kickball. Jacks was a big thing, jackson balls, just normal things that kids did. Always had games and stuff that we played at home. You know, we didn't have a whole lot, but we had the love that we needed from my mom and dad. But for her parents, raising seven kids was tough. My dad was like the sole provider. My mom worked when she could. But you know what did your dad do for work? Well,

he worked at a cemetery for forty one years. He was a foreman at two different cemeteries. Did you go to high school? Oh yeah, I went my whole senior year and so embarrassing, and I flunked POD and the six weeks POD. What is that? Problems of democracy? I mean, which you know, I didn't really think I needed it at that time. You know, although she didn't graduate high school, Nancy was a hard worker. She held multiple jobs throughout her teenage years, including at a flowershop, a marina, and

the local Why how would you describe yourself? Wow, I don't know. I thought I was a good kind person. You know. When she was nineteen, Nancy entered a new phase of life. She got married and started a family. I have four kids, and you know they're they're the greatest part of my life. So tell me about growing up, Like, what was your mom, like I mean, my mom was my mom. You know. This is Courtney Smith, Nancy's second youngest child. She's now forty two. No, I specifically remember

being you know, like happy. I mean to me, I would say it was a normal, happy childhood. We lived in a very clean household. You know, we never went without. We were always fed, and we always had, you know, what we needed, not necessarily what we wanted, but you know, kids are kids, and Nancy was good at making do with what they had. Okay, here's a memory that she's

probably not gonna laugh at, but I will um. The one year for Christmas they gave us plastic like nice, and then we had to cut the Christmas presents open with knives like plastic, like, we were not allowed to rip it? Right, Why couldn't you rip it? Because they were being frugal, I don't know. And then you know, my listen, Oh, because they wanted to save the paper. Yeah, they were gonna they wanted to save the paper. Okay. But although Nancy loved her children, her marriage was crumbling.

It wasn't a really happy marriage. She and her husband eventually divorced. By nineteen ninety three, Nancy was in her late thirties and all four of her children were teenagers. She worked multiple jobs to make ends meet. You know, it was pretty tough to make sure that, you know, I could get my kids to school and be home in enough time for them to you know, make them dinner, get them ready for bed, and whatever. So it was, you know, it wasn't easy for the most part of

being a single mom. You know, I did the best I could. One of her jobs was driving a bus for Headstart, a federal program for low income children under five to prepare them for school. She also drove her meals on wheels and the YMCA, So in between my bus routes, I would deliver mills to the senior citizens and then I also did a route for the YMCA there after school program there and then I would finish my day up with picking up the afternoon kids and

dropping them off at home. At the same time, Nancy was also taking night classes to complete her geed. It all made for a busy day. I made sure that, you know, I was there on time. I was there to pick them up on time, and I was there to take them home on time. You know, I had four kids. I had to do my job so i'd get home to my family. I didn't have time to play around. So I want to ask about May seventh, nineteen ninety three. What do you remember about that day?

It started out as any other normal day. I went to work and I got my bus, warmed up on whatever. That's when her boss came over to talk to her. When you're done with your bus route. He said, bring your take your bus, put it back at the station, and then come down to downtown. We'd like to talk to you. And I was like, oh, okay, no idea, no, I said, what's it about? And he goes, yeah, we'll

just talk to you when you get there. When she walked in the office later that day, to her surprise, the director of the head Start program was also there. That's when she told me that a mother had made an allegation against me. And I was like, what do you mean an allegation against me? And she said, well, they said that you didn't take her daughter to school, you took her daughter to a birthday party where you molested her. And I'm like, what are you what are

you talking about the whole thing? It seemed preposterous to Nancy. I said, you guys, have my records, I said, you have my Minley chet you have there's records shown that this kid went to school. What are you talking about? And they were like, well, you know, we just we have to address it because this is what some others accused in you of. But with all the documentation they had, Nancy was certain they'd see the story wasn't true. I followed the rules on my job, you know what I mean.

I had a bus aide with me at all times. How would anybody accuse me of something like that? I had two other jobs. When did people think I had time to do this, you know? And then and to accuse me being a mother of that. I can't even tell you what that felt like. You can't even imagine being a mother of four kids and having someone say

something like that about you. It's horrible. Nancy was suspended from her head Start bus driving job while the allegations were being investigated, but she still had a family to feed, so she continued to drive her other roots and the next thing I know, it just escalated to this nightmare that ended me in prison for fifteen years. After a mother accused Nancy of molesting her daughter, An official investigation was opened. It was headed up by Detective Tom Cantu,

a respected twenty year veteran of the force. Cantu spoke with the woman who made the allegations, Margie Grondin. He also spoke to her daughter, to protect her privacy, will call her Grace. While speaking with them, officers observed that most of the information about the molestation came from the mother, Margie, not from Grace. Grace actually said the abuse never happened, until they noted Margie coaxed her to say otherwise. Police

said the little girl's responses became incoherent or illogical. The doctor who examined Grace also stated that she didn't see any signs of injury to her body. Based on these initial interviews, the police determined that it was unlikely that Margie Grondin's story was true, but it was a serious allegation and the police were under pressure to do a thorough investigation. Detectives then went on to interview the eleven other children who rode Nancy's bus. None of them said

they were abused. In fact, they all said they liked Nancy and that she was a nice bus driver. But Margie Grondin kept it up. She went to the homes of two of the children, whom we'll call Luke and Sarah, and she told their parents that their children had been molested. When Luke and Sarah were interviewed by the police, it was clear they were simply repeating what their parents and

Margie Grondin told them to say. Detective Canto, for the second time, determined there was not enough evidence to substantiate the allegations, and he announced that he wanted to close the case. I just thought it's never going to go nowhere because I didn't do anything, you know, which at first it didn't, and then next thing you know, Margaret Grondin is all over the media talking about this. Enraged that the police were not moving forward on charging Nancy.

Margie Gronden went to the media saying a molester was stalking Headstart children and that the police were doing nothing about it. I was just like, oh my god, what is this woman doing, What is she doing? Why is she doing this to me? I never had any problems with her, and her child was always back at her house,

always at time. I mean, this woman used to give me my buss aid gifts at Christmas time, at Easter time, and then to turn around and make an allegation like this against me was I was just floored, and Nancy was especially confused when she found out what she was actually being accused of. Margie grind and claimed her daughter

didn't go to school that day. Instead, she said Nancy took Grace to the house of a man named Joseph, who was allegedly Nancy's boyfriend, and that he tied Grace up, put tape over her eyes, and sexually molested her with a stick. At this point, had the name Joseph been brought up to you, I never knew about Joseph Allen until his pitcher hit the newspaper. This episode is underwritten

by AIG, a leading global insurance company. AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making a positive difference in the lives of its employees and in the communities where they work and live. In light of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, the AIG Pro Bono Program provides free legal services and other support

to underrepresented communities and individuals. Thanks to Margie Grandin's public accusations, Nancy found herself in the center of a media frenzy. It was on every news channel, it was in the newspapers. I had media coming to my house, knocking on my door. Over the next few months, fifteen other children came forward with stories of abuse by Nancy and Joseph. Ten were proven to be baseless right off the bat, because those children didn't ride Nancy's bus route. One of them didn't

even attend headstart. After these added allegations, Nancy volunteered to take a polygraph, which at the time was still believed to be a reliable method of detecting lies. According to the test administrator, she passed so for the third time. Detective Can'tu wrote a report stating that he believed the allegations were unfounded and that he wouldn't bring any charges against Nancy. Detective Can'tu was then taken off the case.

Other detectives resumed the investigation, and for months the only information they had about the second suspect was that his name was Joseph. The police ultimately believed five children, Grace, Luke, Sarah, and two of the fifteen who came forward after the media frenzy. They all had varying descriptions of Joseph, sometimes saying he was white, sometimes black, and sometimes black with

white spots. One of the children identified a white man whose name was not Joseph, as the perpetrator, but his house did not match the description of the house the children had given, so he was ruled out. Another white man, the owner of a gay bar, was identified and also ruled out. The police became frustrated with the children's muddled and unreliable information, and while trying to get answers, they asked leading repetitive questions designed to fit the narrative given

by the parents. So when you do start seeing these media reports that its it starts becoming an actual situation. I think when it first hit me was the day that they rest at me in front of my kids. The arrest happened six months after the alleged crimes took place, on November tenth, nineteen ninety three. They came to my parents' home and it was like five cop cars and they handcuffed me in front of my children. That's something they should never have had to worry about, and that's something

that I never should have had to worry about. Eventually, police also settled on their second suspect, a thirty nine year old black man named Joseph Allen, who was being investigated for an unrelated crime. Nancy remembers seeing his picture in the news before they were both arrested, and that was the first time that I actually ever seen Joseph Allen. I remember calling Jack Bradley, my attorney at the time, and I was like, oh my god, Jack, who is this guy. I don't even know who the guy is.

And he said, well, they're trying to say that this was your boyfriend. I said, I don't know who this man is. I've never even met this man before. Nancy was charged with multiple accounts of rape. I'm trying to remember if they even said anything to me. I mean, at this point, I think I just kind of like just blanked out because they you know, they handcuffed me.

They took me down to the police station. They put me in a holding cell, and I can remember one of the detectives come up to the holding cell and he just gave me this really nasty look and he said, you'll get what you deserve and he walked away, and you know, I'm sitting there, I'm I'm just I'm crying and I don't know what to do. You know, they just let me lay there for hours and hours and hours on this just this still bed, nothing, just a play still bed. They just let me lay there for

hours and hours and hours. The trial started in July of nineteen ninety four. The prosecutor was Jonathan Rosenbaum. He called Margie Grondin along with a few other parents to testify as to what they heard and saw from the children. He also called a bus aid who said she had previously seen Joseph Allen with Nancy during her bus route. He also presented four of the five children who said they were molested. One of them said on the stand the abuse never happened, but the other three went into

detail when talking about the sexual allegations. It's the sort of things that like a kid who doesn't actually know about sexual interactions might say when someone says, what happened to you down there? This is Mark Godsey, a professor of law at the University of Cincinnati College of Law

and director of the Ohio Innocence Project. He says the kids stories were not only inconsistent with each other and with the previous statements, but that they were also obviously made up, so they would say things like, you know, they stuck sticks up our butt, they make us drink pe. This is like the sort of ridiculous things at three and four year olds when they're doing bathroom talk talk about.

I mean, it was just ridiculous, you know, to sit there and watch these little kids talk about something that they didn't even know what they were talking about, including things like I was tied up to a tree out on a busy street and I was naked, and I was tied up all day long, Like like any kid that's like four years old is going to be naked and tied to a tree right by a busy road all day and somebody's not going to call the police, and no one's going to have any memory of this,

you know, just very bizarre type things. I mean, I'm sitting there listening to this, like, are you kidding me? I mean, are you really kidding me? Where's this ship coming from? Can I cuss? Because I have a bat? I'm sorry. I get when I start getting talking about it, I get, really I can say some pretty horrible words. Mark understands why Nancy is frustrated. The thing that's difficult about this case is that it's hard to imagine how

bad the defense attorney did. The defense attorney was Jack Bradley. Mark says that Bradley did a horrible job at presenting evidence to disprove the allegations. There are things that you just can't get past that proved this did not happen, and they were all either not introduced or ignored. It was like a perfect storm. For example, on the day in question, and every day there was a babysitter in the back of the bus who was willing to testify

I was back there. There was never a day where I got taken to some boyfriend of Nancy's house and these kids were molested. Of course, not right, and this person was not called as a witness, Like, how can you make this up? There were attendance records showing that the kids were there on the day in question, and in fact, the kids who were part of this allegation and testified at trial were never all absent on the

same day. Was that brought up at trial when Bradley called Nancy to testify, she said she had never seen Joseph Allen in her life. He also called a transportation manager from a local County agency who testified that they checked Nancy's bus mileage and did not detect any side trips, but no documents were entered into evidence or shown to the jury. It doesn't matter if you think the allegations

like it doesn't matter if they're ludicrous. If you've got evidence showing it didn't happen, you still got to introduce it. The defense attorney didn't introduce any of it, and to evidence, I think he thought there's no way there's going to

be a conviction. I mean, that was like a fog, sitting in this trial by a man that I didn't even know, being falsely accused of molesting children, having my family sitting in a court room and listened to this appalling ship that was coming out of their mouth, the lies, and the people getting on stand and lieing, and just did you think that you would be convicted? No, No, there's no way. I thought there's no way. But on August fourth, nineteen ninety four, Nancy was convicted of all charges.

She was sentenced to thirty to ninety years in prison. And I can remember Jonathan Rosa Bob making a smirk ass face that he always did, and I lunched toward the table. I remember that Jack. I remember Jack pulled me back and thend them taking me down to the holding cell. I mean, I felt like I was like, it was just so unreal. I'm sorry, I don't need to cry. It's so hard to try to relive this. Nancy's daughter, Courtney, who was fourteen at the time, also

remembers that moment her mom was convicted. She and her siblings weren't allowed in the courtroom, so she was in the hallway of the courthouse watching the trial on TV. I remember watching it going dumbfounded, right, like what is going on? And uh? I remember like all the newspapers, you know, the reporters and the TV stations and they're all flashing and I remember screaming at Margie and going

are you happy now? The B word? And the next day, I know, I'm being like pulled away and she's like, your mother did this, you know, and I'm like, no, she did it, but you know, they pulled me out, and then I just remember sitting there going, what's gonna happen to us? You know? After the convictions, Margie Grondin, along with several other parents, sued the Lorraine County Head Start program for damages. They won their cases and settled

for one point five million dollars each. So in the eighties and nineties we went through this era where there were a couple famous cases where individuals claimed that their very young children had been sexually abused in daycarese that had some sort of deep pockets behind them, like Headstart, federally funded places. You could get some sort of big settlement and it was like part of the Satanic panic where the parents who would be able to draw up

these charges were making millions. The phrase satanic panic came about because, in addition to molestations, children sometimes also described satanic rituals, which is flying through the air and other bizarre events. One of the most notorious examples is the McMartin case. In the early nineteen eighties, members of the McMartin family, who operated a preschool in Manhattan Beach, California, were charged with hundreds of acts of sexual abuse involving

children under their care. The story set off a national media frenzy. It was like this hysteria that was like whipped up that, Oh my god, all these little kids are being molested by these daycare centers. This is like a you know, a pandemic. This is a huge problem that's going on and sweeping the country. The McMartin case was ultimately dismissed seven years later, but not before dozens of similar, unfounded lawsuits had erupted back in the nineties

and even the eighties. Were you aware of any other cases like yours, like specifically this McMartin case is a really famous one. No, No, I never, you know, I mean, I was too busy being a mom and doing what I was doing to you know, really wasn't into the news and stuff like that. After her sentencing, Nancy was sent to Marysville Reformatory. It's prison in Ohio. I think the first two years I cried myself to sleep every night.

So Courtney, did you stay close with your mom? Oh? Yeah, We talked whenever she could afford to, And it got easier when I had a job so we could send her buddy. Somebody would always take us down, you know, like it was like a monthly thing. And then when we got old enough when we could go ourselves. I mean there was times that I took friends with me so they could meet her. What is seeing your mom in prison? Like? No, it's not a fun, enjoyable experience.

So it really was never a pleasant experience, but at least we were able to go see her. Eventually. Nancy felt some joy when she joined the prison's horticulture program, like that was my saving grace. I mean, honestly, I did this program for nine years and then the man who ran the program asked me if I would stay on at his aid, and so I would be the one that they would go in the greenhouse and just

water all the flowers. I can remember just putting my headphones on and just go in there and just thinking I was just in a whole different place. After Mark and the Ohio Innocence Project took on her case, things started to turn around for Nancy. In two thousand and nine, a new state law in Ohio required Nancy to be resentenced. Mark and his team petitioned the court arguing there was not enough evidence for a conviction, and Judge James Burge agreed.

So Nancy's conviction was vacated and she went home and I thought, oh my god, this is fine. This nightmare is finally over. It's finally over. But thirty days later, the state appealed the ruling. And Nancy's conviction was restored. She didn't return to prison them her hearing was delayed for two years, and during that time, Nancy tried to resume a semblance of normalcy. So what was picking up

the pieces of your life? Like? The first five years, I was home, like I wouldn't go anywhere without anybody. Somebody had to be with me at all times, because I don't know how I would react as half somebody

come up and say something really negative to me. I was already angry for all these years that I spent in prison and fighting this case for so many years, and so the first five years was really tough for me to know the postmatic stress disorder, the anxiety, not knowing if I'm going back to prisoners, stay at home or whatever. In the meantime, Mark and his team were focused on filing a post conviction motion for clemency based on a bombshell video they discovered that had been withheld

by the prosecution. The video showed the police lineup where the children from Headstart were being asked to identify their molester, and what was actually going on in that room was shocking. The parents were coaching during the I wouldn't identification and like taking the kid's hands and pointing them at Joseph Allen.

The Ohio Innocence Project also compiled records showing the abuse could not have occurred because all the children were in school the day it supposedly happened, and they submitted affidavits from Nancy's bus aides stating that they saw Nancy drop the kids at school. On top of that, Mark and his team also submitted to the court records showing she

was working two other jobs the afternoon in question. In April of twenty twelve, Mark, along with the law firm Davis, Polk and Wardwell, filed a petition for clemency with the Ohio Parole Board and Governor John Kasik. In addition to Nancy's innocence, the petition also argued that child psychologists have since discredited the techniques used for questioning the children at

the time this was going on. What the common belief was that if a kid is saying this, it must be true, because why would a kid make this up? And you know, from the mouths of babes, you know, like that's the phrase that kids are always telling the truth because they don't they don't know to lie yet when in reality, when they're being coached or when an adult is trying to get them to say something, they're very adaptable and they're very easy to manipulate and get

to say what the adult wants them to say. You know, children will come to believe what they're being told over and over again and what they're being coached to believe. And that's well established in the psychological literature. And now decades later, when the smoke is cleared, we realized that this was most of these people are actually innocent. A lot of these cases were drummed up for people who were seeking to sue and get monetary damages, and that's

exactly what Nancy Smith got unfortunately wrapped up in. In twenty thirteen, Nancy was finally resentenced to twelve years and having already served fourteen, she was granted time served, but she was still not exonerated of the charges, meaning to the rest of the world, Nancy was still a conicted child rapist. Fast forward to twenty twenty one, when there was a changing of the guard in Lorraine County. We had an open minded prosecutor who was going to take

a second look at it. The new prosecutor, JD. Tomlinson actually started his own investigation into Nancy's case in conjunction with Mark and his team. This was promising, and then late one night, Mark was working in his office when something completely unexpected happened. I get a call from Dino Grunden.

Dino was the son of Margie Grunden and Grace's older brother, who said, I've got a story for you, Like I have a daughter now, this is the same age, and Margie Grunden is her grandmother, my mother, and Margie Grunden is manipulating her the same way I saw Margie grunn And manipulate my little sister when I was a kid. She's doing the same thing again. She's like coaching my

own kid. And so I became concerned that Margie Garden is trying to set up the same scenario that she had done back in the nineties where she was able to get money by using her own child, at this time doing at their grandchild. The authorities confirmed Dino's allegations by catching Margie on a nanny camp. They found that the child was being coached when they left the room, but they left the taper quarter on and she was

like practicing and practice crying and stuff. This is what exactly what Dino Grunden was telling us was going on. This revelation, along with an affidavit from the original investigator, Detective Cantu, was enough for Prosecutor Tomlinson. After his own five month investigation, Tomlinson was sure of Nancy's innocence and he moved to have the charges dismissed, and at a hearing on February twenty fifth, twenty twenty two, he offered

a public apology. Did you missed that? I apologize to you, especially for what was done to you and to your fans as a result of this ill conceived prosecution. I'll be handed to the stable Ohio. I wish nothing but the best for you, Andrew about most and I hope that in the future only happiness and could fortune me a bob, You're right, all right, I will be moving this honorable courts to dismiss these matters. That day, Judge Chris Cook vacated Nancy's convictions for the final time. Today,

Nancy is still living in Lorraine, Ohio. She's a dog groomer and volunteers at her church to give back to people less fortunate. She still doesn't like to go places alone, but she's received much more support than she expected. I would have people come up and say, can I just give you a hug, or come up to me and say, we're just so glad. We always believed in you. We knew that this was fogus. We knew that this case was not true. So Courtney, why do you think Margie

Grunden did this money? I think one hundred and time percent. She concocted a game for money, and that's why she did this. You know, to me, she's a narcissist. What does that feel like that your mom's life was worth less than some money? I think it feels horrible. But you know, the older you get, the more mature you get, you know, you really start understanding that there are truly people out there that don't care, and they don't care what they put other people through, and they're gonna do

whatever they want to get whatever they want. And then this is just one of those cases. All it takes is one person, one person, a Margie Grunted to do this to you, and before you know what, your life's just gone from you. You know, I mean, one thing I can say today is that I will never ever let somebody else do this to me again. But know that I survived, and I got through this with the grace of God. I got through this with Mark Godzi and the Innocent Project. I got through this with Judge Burge.

I got through this with JD. Tomlinson. And I'll continue to get through every obstacle that ever comes my way in life because I know that I can, and I know that I can, you know, continue not to live the best life that I can do. To help Ohio XS honorees, Nancy suggests supporting the Phoenix Initiative, which provides clothing to Willa trees and other necessities to exonorees when they're released. Links to this and to the Ohio Innocence Project will be in our bio next time. Un Wrongful

Conviction with Maggie Freeling Tammy Vans. She was snoring really loud, and all of a sudden it stopped, and I freaked out and I telled THEE she's not breathing, She's not breathing. They got on the phone with nine one one and I Minister CPR until the ambulance got there. Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the links in our

bio to see how you can help. I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flam and Kevin Wurdas, as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea, producer Lila Robin, and story editor Sonia Paul. The show is edited and mixed by Annie Chelsea, with additional production by Jeff Cleburne and Connor Hall. The music in this production is by

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