#328 Jason Flom with Keith Cooper

On October twenty ninth, nineteen ninety six, Elkhart, Indiana police were called to the apartment of a Michael Kirshner and his mother known a Canal. Allegedly, while they and four friends were watching a movie, two men forced their way in, demanding money and drugs. After the taller of the pair allegedly shot at his friends and missed. A struggle between Michael Kerscher and the shooter resulted in a non fatal gunshot wound to Michael's abdomen. The gunman's hat fell off

I'm glad to be here.

And with him is his civil attorney and our resident Elkhart expert, who you might remember from our coverage of Andy Royer's case, which we're going to have linked in the bio. This man is an adjunct professor at Notre Dame Law, a staff attorney at the Exoneration Clinic out of the University of Chicago, and a partner at the nationally recognized civil rights law firm Lovy and Loby, where he was an investigator before he even passed the bar.

Elly is Low Sarry, thanks Jason, thanks so much for having us on.

Now, Keith, you didn't always live in card Indiana. You weren't born and raised there, right, You started off on the South side of Chicago, So tell us a little bit about that.

I grew up in a single family hall. My mother was raising three of us. It was kind of rough. As I got older, I started having babies, and then I got married with my wife. You know, the valance ate was on my rise in Chicago doing in the nineties, and I didn't want that kind of atmosphere round for my children. So we decided to move the air car because she had family there, and I was like, okay, we'll cool. I'll give it the shot. I was twenty eight going on twenty nine, and I had three children's

Yeah, it sounds like it. I mean, twenty nine years old, three kids married, you know, more or less living. What sounds like the you know, personification of the American dream. And what's ironic is that you left Chicago, which had not only had a rise in crime at the time, but then the police were also very dangerous. The police in those days, and this is not hyperbole. We're regularly

You're right, Elkhart is a city of manifest and justice. To date, there's been five exonerations from Elkhart. Our clinic represents another dozen in terms of the number of wrongthully convicted people from there. You know who knows what that number is. I'm sure there's hundreds more.

I mean hundreds more. That would be crazy in a big city, but we're talking about a town of fifty thousand of that's really disturbing. And as you can hear in our coverage of Andy Royer's case, which we're also going to link in the bio, there's coerced false witness statements, fraudulent fingerprint analysis, a false confession from a cognitively impaired man,

You know, something that we would later obtain on the civil side of things was Razuko's application of the Okar Police Department and so they conduct, you know, a background investigation to Berzuko, and then they go to like three references that he actually lists. You know, this is like when you're applying to a job, You're like, hey, let me list like the three most favorable people to be in the world. And at each of those three places, they gave them terrible references. You know, one of the

He had, bad credit, was deep in debt, going through a bankruptcy, several arrests for reckless driving, fighting, an accident with a parked car, and a high speed chase with the police.

So nothing in this background investigation was like, Steve Rzuko, let's give that guy a badge and a gun and see what he can do for the citizens of Belcar.

But at least one former supervisor seemed to have found value in Razuko, saying, quote, he knew all the drunks, all the bandits, and all the prostitutes. He's a big guy, and he's been in some bar scrapes and come out the winner. End quote. This guy was an uber, aggressive dirt bag with plenty of friends in the underbelly of town.

Yeah, this guy was willing to violate the constitutional rights of anyone in the community, especially people of color or people without financial resources to take him on, and got away with committing criminal offenses for decades.

And well, we'll go a bit further to what those criminal acts were later on, but bear in mind he wasn't the only problematic dirt bag investigating in this case. There's also Ed wind Bigler, who eventually became the chief of police, and another detective named Steve Ambrose.

Steve Ambrose later was implicated in serious misconduct as well, including shooting and killing a black man in the Elkhart community by the name of Derek Connors. And everybody that I had spoken to an elk Cart has serious concerns about whether Detective Ambrose murdered Derek Connors without justification, and there was an investigation into that in a lawsuit.

So this town that Keith had moved to in search of a safe place to raise his family. Wasn't actually so safe with these guys protecting and serving. Now, not only was it unsafe for Keith and his family, but also another young man named Chris Parrish, who was also wrongly targeted by Razuko, Ambrose and wind Bigler. Now Chris was almost ten years younger than Keith and had grown up in Elkhart.

I think with Chris Parrish something to keep in mind, as he was a real young kid whose family had run ins with the police department. And you know, as we talk about this case, you'll see that the police went out of their way to manufacture a keys against Chris Parish when all the evidence credibly showed that he was innocent all alone.

So it was these previous run into with the law, which were nothing serious, by the way, but they offered a motivation for the police to try to frame Chris, who already had a mugshot from when he was fourteen years old, which made it even easier for them. But with you, Keith, you were brand new to town, unknown to local law enforcement, so you see, like a pretty random choice, but they went ahead and did it anyway, did you know Chris Parrish before all this happened.

No, I never knew Chris Pare.

Yeah, so Christopher Parris and Keith Cooper never met each other until a decade after Chris's exoneration. And you know, a couple of years after Keith was exonerated, they had separate defense attorneys. You know, Chris was from Elkhar, Keith was from Chicago. They lived different lives. Frankly, there are different age groups. You know, Keith was the period with children, Chris was in his early twenties.

Yeah, Keith was like nine years older than him and living a totally different lifestyle. So the idea of the two of you committed an arm robbery together, on its face, makes no sense. So let's get into the climate itself. Now, this incident may not have even happened in the way that the victim described it. The police really never did collect any evidence at the scene, but rather it was collected later for them by the alleged victims. But it's

In either event, they had the wrong apartment, according to victims. You know, their account is that when they deny that Shell was there, these two guys forced their way into the apartment because the victims had like a bag of like laundry coins on the living room table, and there was an skas rifle. Ultimately there was a scuffle and in the midst of the scuffle, one of the victims, Michael Kirshner, was shot.

Right He allegedly got in between his mother and the gunman, which was the taller of the two assailants, and took a non fatal gunshot to the abdomen, which, if true, is very heroic. Now, the taller gunman was the role in this crime that Keith later got saddled with. Also notable by the way, during that tussle, the taller man's hat fell off.

Yeah, and it wasn't just any hat, you know back in the eighties and nineties, you know, when they had malls. It was like one of those hats that you can customize. There were like rhyan stones on it that formed the letter J. Notably, you know, Keith Cooper doesn't have the letter J anywhere in his name. But when the shooter and the second person left the apartment, they left that hat, and on that hat was DNA evidence that has excluded Keith Cooper since the time of trial.

And we'll get into how that played out at trial in a bit. And from what I can understand, this hat and any other physical evidence from the scene, none of it was even initially collected by the police on the scene. What the hell is that all about?

There are two different perspectives to this. You know, later there were some evidence that came out during Chris Parish's post conviction litigation that alleged that the shooting happened in a parking lot, and if they happen in a parking lot, that might tend to explain why there wouldn't be any physical evidence in the apartment. There's a second explanation, which is that it's not just detectives and Elkhart that are

So there are some chain of custody issues from the get go here. But nonetheless, they had some bullets, shellcasings, the hat with the DNA that excludes Keith. And then the witness's descriptions, right, two young black men, one was short and stocky, and then the tall gunman who had a long silver gun and was described as wiry. But I'm not sure if Keith ever was wiry. It certainly doesn't appear that way. Now.

Yeah, Keith is tall, but he's never been a wiry guy. You're totally right about that. And in this case, there was a composite that was created early on, and it's like the most generic looking composite you'll ever see. I mean it like basically was a human being. There was no detail to it that would like lead you one way or the other to who actually did the shooting.

And we'll link that in the bio as well. So this generic composite leaves room for a very loose interpretation as to which direction to take this investigation. So two days after the crime, one of the witnesses, a fifteen year old kid named Eddie Love, who may or may not have been at risk of his own charges, had a highly pressurized sit down with ed Win Bigler. And it's been theorized that Winn Bigler may have been pushing

What's fascinating is there are like two different versions of this based on the reports. So, like Detective Winn Bigler's report said that Eddie Love said that the person look like a person he knew named Chris Parrish, he didn't say it was Chris Parrish. So he was like clearly telling the cops like, hey, you know, like, I know this guy, Chris Parrish, the guy you're looking for, looks

So, whether they had already planned on doing this or not, they now have a reason to place Chris Parrish's photo in a lineup to be viewed by Michael Kershner, Nona Kanell, and the other four robbery victims. Now, remember they only had a picture of Chris from when he was fourteen, even though Chris was twenty years old at the time of the crime, So the lineup was totally suspect. Plus they knew that he was in Chicago.

You know, which is about two hours from Malcart, Indiana, and he had somewhere around fifteen alibi witnesses who testified his criminal trial, including a minister and Brizuko would testify later on in Chris's civil case. This is like fifteen years later. I believed when the trial was over that Chris was going to be exonerated because I believed as

Right?

Both can't be true. Sure, maybe there's some statistical probability that one person could mistakenly pick Chris out of a photo ray, But how do you get a half dozen people to mistakenly pick Chris Parrish? I have a photo ray? Well, you do it by putting a fourteen year old juvenile photo in an array with five adult men, knowing that they described the person as younger looking, and you lead your eyewitnesses to misidentify somebody who's innocent.

So they made this suggestive array with Chris's juvenile photo and led the six witnesses to id him. Chris was charged shortly after the actual incident, to later be taken to trial. But Keith, you were brand new in town. They didn't even know you, let alone have a photo of you. So how did you get pulled into this?

That all started for the They said, I arrived later for a purse.

So a personatching happened. But Keith was like literally walking on the street his car broken down. He went to go get some like groceries, and the detective saw a tall black guy and was like, oh, there was a person with a tall black eye. Let me just bring this guy over. So he drove Keith over to the victim's house.

And I saw the lady on the porch with the other officers, and I'm saying to myself, how she gonna be a just identify me when I'm sending in the backseat, and they squad covered these little gates around the window where you can't even really see inside.

Was she white?

She was white? Yes, you were, okay, So.

We have a crossracial identification from a distance through a window which is screened, as you said, so I barely could see in it all. And the suggestive nature of it is extreme.

Right then and there, my life went to shits. Well, she identified me as the person at you. That was a lot when I got to the police station. A lot of things they did at the police station. It went untold because see they had me take a lot to take the test to prove that I was innocent of that case. But it did no good because Zuko's had other flanks would be And.

This is like from Detective Razuko's own mouth. You know, he's testified to this. Detective Razuko sees Keith in there and he's like, oh, tall black guy, that must be the tall black guy I'm looking for in the cursion shooting. I mean like it literally could have been like any tall black guy in America who could have been brought into that station and their life would have been ripped away because Razuko just wanted to close the case instead assaulted.

Here, you have two separate incidents involving a tall black man, and then both the pers snatching detective and Razuko just picked out any old, tall black guy and it just happened to be Keith both times. So you you were in jail for two months of waiting trial on the per snatch correct, Well, how much was bail on that case?

Uh? It was ten thousand thousand ago to a bond out.

And not having access to that money like so many other people, you're stuck in his jail.

I'm stuck. I'm set waiting trial. Right before I was getting ready to go to trial for the personnatch, I get a visitor. The visit was Detective Zip Goes. He had me come down to his office and I sat down across from him and told me. He said, hey, if you take this personatching case to trial, and if you do win this, I have another case fate. I said, I didn't commit this personatcher, the I i't do anything

No, he was not. Like he had already explained to you, he had six people that were ready to identify you, and all of those ideas, with the exception of Eddie Love, were going to be cross Rachel, which I'll say it again, in study after study has been proven to be less accurate than guessing. So we had your picture now, and you put it into another suggestive lineup.

What's remarkable about Elkhart is even though they had the ability to do live lineups back in the nineties, they declined to do it. All of the identifications in this case were made on photo rays, and if you look at the photo rays, it's like, yeah, canel id Keith kurshioner ide Keith And you're like, oh wow, these are positive identifications. You know, there's no reports about you know,

It sounds like the basis for probable cause was a lie as well. These IDs were not positive ideas and the lead up to trial, but Razuko was able to shore them up later in the meantime leading up to trial, they had the DNA from the sweatband and the results came back telling the state definitively that Keith was not and could not have been involved, which should have put an end to this crazy prosecution.

Totally like one hundred percent, but instead the state enters into this stipulation with this defense attorney that Keith had saying that if the State Lab analysts were to testify a trial, she would testify that the hat neither included nor excluded Keith Cooper from having worn it, and that is like the opposite of what the actual DNA results say, which is that like he's excluded from being a contributor to any of the DNA on the hat.

I'm planning. It hard to understand why his attorney would do something so stupid. I mean, did you know that your attorney was allowing this shit to go on?

No? No, no. When the DNA, I felt confident that that's going to be the way I get out. But the negu the stipulation, which I didn't understand at the time what the word meant. My lawyer told me that when he agreed to that, that it's going to be into my favor if I agreed to the stipulation. I said, okay, cool.

What ended up having a trial is like you know is in many of these cases, right, you've got police misconduct, you've got overzealous prosecutors, you know, they just want to get a conviction. And he had a defense attorney who was checked out. Are we going to say his name, Yeah, Jack's meeting. He did not protect Keith Cooper had trial. And you know when I say trial like that is like charitable. This was a half day bench proceeding that sent Keith to prison wrongfully for a decade of his life.

It's chilling to think that he said to you. He was actually being honest, but not in a good way, because he said, I'm going to take a bench trial so we could get this over with, right he was he was not. I mean, any lawyer would know that you're better off with twelve jurors where you only need one to say, hey, this doesn't make any sense.

I thought that way too, But he kept on telling me, saying, you bet off facing the judge because the judge just familiar with the laws, and I'll better for you to do it with this judge and have to go through the twelve people because the judge know more about your case than they do. And like I said, I know about the system. So I went with what he was saying because you know, hey, he represented me, but he wasn't. He was just getting basic. He just wanted me to cop out.

It seems like that's what the court was greased up to do. I don't even understand how the judge could have allowed that stipulation to come to pass, honestly, But everyone seemed on board with just ignoring the clear cut evidence of your innocence leading up to trial, except for the people who didn't know about the DNA evidence. The eyewitnesses, who it seems to me, were probably the only people trying to do the right thing here.

Canel Mike Kirshner, They like, were so insistent regarding their doubts in this identification that Razuka was like, fine, show up to the courthouse at this time and maybe in this location, and the date was Keith Cooper's trial, the location was the hallway, and the time was before the trial started. And so Razuko has these witnesses lined up in the hallway as Keith Cooper is walking up with his wife and children. And what the witnesses and the victims say is a Rezuko turned to them and so

So they trusted the detective that he had the right guy. Meanwhile, he knew otherwise all along. In fact, Berzuko, Winn Biggler, and Ambrose knew that the case was so weak with the shaky IDs and DNA evidence exonerating Keith, that they had to come up with even more bullshit.

So at some point prior to trial, detective Razuko and Wim Biggler get a jail house informant involved named de Barry Coleman, and they promised to Barry Coleman as consideration and fed them information in order to fabricate a statement alleging that Keith confessed to him when they were incarcerating

That is off the rails. Everybody who knows anything about the law or legal proceedings knows that there can be no testimony for either side unless the other side has an opportunity to counter it by cross examining the witness. I've seen wrongful convictions happen for that reason.

Yeah, but apparently like Razuka was like not convinced that Keith was going to get wrongfully convicted, and so like he goes out into the hall and gets us witness Jason Ackley, who was at the time of the shooting in the shower, is not in the living room when the shooting's going on, and he tells Aclee that he needs them to go in there and identify Cooper's voice as the voice that he heard through the walls. Well, he's showery as the perfid who fire the shot. I mean,

Not only is voice recognition totally unreliable, but for anyone who's ever taken a shower, we all know that identifying a strange voice over the water through the wall and maybe the shower curtain or the glass door and whatever else is between you and whatever is going on, This guy,

No, something my body told me, man, I was going to perison wh to use the DN neighbor when it proved that I was innocent that when they said inconclusive, when they threw that to the side, I knew I was going to prison. The judge mine was already made up and we had recess. When we came up to recess, I was found gifted. I looked at my turn and I said, how you let this happened when the DNA was there? And he said, but I did what I could.

Wow. I mean, this is really devastating just to hear about it, and you had to live through it, and then you got taken off the prison, facing forty years to life.

During my sentences, I had told my wife she had to get on with her life. Don't worry about me, because I can't help her or my three babies. I have to now worry about having or surviving this prison, and you have to worry about how you and the kids going to survive because I don't have no source of help, and better help myself now this time. So you know, i'm'a lost the words, and she lost the words too, cause we both got a journey on our

How did you survive and how did you maintain hope in a place that, I mean hope was lost.

I got on my knees and I just prayed. Man, I asked God, I asked God's a guy that helped me get through this year. I wasn't really get in no help until I got the point in another lawyer, Radio Pelaski, and he came into my life. That's when the hope, when everything began change for me. After nine year, it took me nine years to see that they're like you said, man, I looked through your cage I see with the DNA here, I'm gonna have to redo your DNA.

So you know Keith's case. You know, in the early two thousands, there was more DNA testing down on the hat and they were able to run the profile from thisweatban through the code of database and they got a hit to a person named Jolana Servant who was convicted of murder with a similar type weapon in a town that was less than thirty miles from Elkhart and to match the description that the witnesses really gave. So when the system fails and the wrong person goes in, it

I want to go home because I had got a letter from my sister telling me that my family was living in the shelter, and that was what made me really won't understand that paper maps I can come home because I didn't want my people living in the shell, especially my little daughter, because I was locked up with the perverted guy. As you hear, they tell their stories how they find to get their victims, and that made me realize, Man, I need to get a body history as fast as possible.

That's a sophie's choice. You know, Yes, you get to go home to your family, but you get to live for the rest of your life as a convicted violent felon, you know, Or of course you have to go back to jail await trial in a hellish place, which could take years to get back to another trial. And then you've already seen the worst of what the system has to offer, and you know they're capable of faming and they can just do it again. So who would want

When I got out in two thousand and six, my kids didn't even know who I was, and I bet they recognized them because they had grew up. It was teenagers now, they was just little babies when I went into that, you know, being raised without me and their life. He had some little resentments that I had to deal with. I had to let them know it wasn't like I just walked out your life. I was kidnapped. They took me out from y'all, you know. So there was a

This is something that will have a lasting impact on them for as long as they live. Right, the children need their dad, they need their parents.

And be all right now. I mean, I'm so happy I got my grandkids around me. They keep me motivated. You know, I might have missed out on raising my own kids, but at least my kids give me the luxury of raising their children. So I'm grateful.

What do they call you? They call you Grandpa, grabs pop pap, or they call you.

They call me Paul, Paul. They love they Paupaul.

That's great, And I understand you got remarried as well, to your wife, Nicole Slaton Cooper in twenty ten.

Oh. I love my wife. She's beautiful. She's been very supportive of me. And the personal I got to get high honors to is God first. Then my lawyer fly brother's last frame. Yeah, Ellis. So when he stepped that came to my life. I was given. Man. I knew I had a chance man to make things right.

So, you know, I learned about Keith Cooper when I was investigating the case of his co defend at Christopher Pierrish, who had already been exonerated. You know, he was in the middle of a civil lawsuit. I was like, not even in law school yet. When I was working on that as an investigator, and when I talked to the victims and they told me what Detective rzuco really did

Since your investigation of Keith case really began with Chris Parrish's case, we need to revisit what that investigation and the civil suit uncovered. Now he filed the wrongful conviction lawsuit in twenty ten, so take us through that.

During Parish's civil lawsuit, Keith Cooper's wrongful conviction unraveled, the eyewitnesses revealed that they were manipulated into misidentifying Keith Cooper the joehas informant to Barry Coleman. You know, he refused to testify trial, right, So Coleman you know, revealed like, hey, yeah, I didn't testify trial because A it was false and B they didn't satisfy their promises to me, and I wasn't going through with it. I wasn't going to let them give me up there to put an incant guy

Parish presented evidence that a Kirsha was shot in the parking lot outside the building and about it because he said it was in the apartment because he was on home detention for a gun charge. So that's a bombshell right there. Okay, then Love testify the police coerced him to identify Parish. DNA test conducted after the trial, and the hat showed not Keith Cooper, of course, but as you said, DNA of a man named Jolanis Irvin who was later convicted of murder.

It would later be proven that Detective Razuko, the same guy who was telling the eyewitnesses who to select in the hallway with Keith Cooper, was using a child photo of Chris Parrish so that they knew who to identify and his arrays. And then Razuko would later admit under oath that when he watched Chris Parrish's trial, this frame job that he like orchestrated, and he admitted in the deposition, like they convinced me. I thought they were going to find him not guilty.

Right, I mean, the state's case had been laid to waste. Right, it was just laying there in tatters. And there's still so much more that was revealed, and we'll get to that in a minute. But Keith's best shot at Exander was an actual innocence pardon from the governor. And this was Governor Pence at the time, and it was filed in like twenty thirteen, Right, wasn't he released in two thousand and six?

In Indiana? They had this real antiquated rule at the time where if you had been released from prison, then you had to wait five years to file a pardon our parle application.

So all of this information had already been accumulated. No one could deny his innocence. They couldn't have back in two thousand and six, even though they would have tried. But now he's out and ready for the fight. So this goes in front of the Pardon and Parole Board and there's an even better case made for then Governor Pence to do the right thing. Here.

What's remarkable is that the part of parle board did a unanimist recommendation. They recommended the actual innocence pardon the victim. Michael Kershner testified on Keith Cooper's behalf, apologized to him, told him what Detective Razuko did, you know, begged the part and parle board to do the right thing, beg the governor to do the right thing. A number of other people gave statements, and probably you know, the most critical thing was a letter from the trial prosecutor who's

I felt like a celebrity. I tell you that God is good. Hey he put me out there when I heard that part. And I was at work on a forklift truck loading the FAED except and one of my guys ran on the back of the truck. He said, Keith, you've just been pawned. I didn't know. He said, man, you gave me pint. I thought it was a game he was just going to play. If I say, man, got time for them, I'm loading this truck. Let me work.

The person who ultimately won that election, Governor Eric Holcombe, who was the lieutenant governor two Pence. Like this is somebody who was on Pence's ticket previously, and within his first thirty days in office, he granted Keith Cooper, the State of Indiana's only ever actual innocence part.

It's incredible.

Finally now comes the good stuff. Right now you get to take these people to task. So, of course, in November twenty nineteen, Keith filed the federal lawsuit against the City of Elkhart and four of its police officers. What did you learn during the civil proceedings, because this is this is deep.

Yeah, we ended up filing the civil lawsuit, you know, as a federal lawsuit on behalf of Keith Cooper. We sued Detective Razukodwynn Bigler, A Ambrose, and the City of Elkhart, and that civil lawsuit unraveled what is going to be decades of exonerations people who were wrongfully convicted, just like Keith was. We ended up on covering these internal affairs files that were never disclosed to Keith Cooper prior to

Wow.

I mean, I'm sorry for his family, but the fact is that everyone's safer with him not being in a position to hurt other people and abuse his power. You know, again, I wish it was the only time I'd heard a story like that. You know, the Pippo and Krevac case in Westchester had similar levels of police criminality. And then there's that horrible cop in Kansas City from the Lamont McIntyre case and so many others. You know that what I'm talking about, Yeah, yeah, Glubski, Jesus Christ.

There's one more wild thing Jason that our law stud uncovered, you know, the detective who assisted Razuko and Fabricaine at Joha's informant statement at Win Bigler. He would later rise to the ranks of chief of police, Like he was chief of police in Elkhart through twenty eighteen. Like, this

Incommit I hate to say, but it's almost like the Catholic Church. You know, you go to whichever city you go to, and you hear stories like this. We hear it day in and day out here as we interview people like Keith who've been through this. So since you've pursued civil litigation Indiana, that means you've forfeited the right

The truth never changed no matter how long it takes, the truth always remained the same. I favored my truth, and God pabil they could say whatever they want to say, and then God Pavel and he's not done with Elcot either. A whole lot of truth for the come out of al cut Yes, sir hey man.

So we have a tradition here wrongful conviction. It's called closing arguments. It's how we close the show, and it works like this. First of all, I thank each of you guys for being here and sharing this truly incredible story. And then I'm going to turn my microphone off, kick back in my chair, put my headphones on, and just listen to anything else you want to share with me and our incredible audience. Elliott, let's let you go first, tell us what's on your mind, and then Keith can take us out.

The epidemic in Elkhart is only beginning to unravel. Yeah, there are so many other Keith Coopers who continue to be wrongfully incarcerated, whether they were framed by Detective Razuko or other members of the Alkar Police Department. But one thing that Keith did through his fight over the past twenty six years, it shine a light on a community that was riddled with police and proscatorial misconduct. And Keith, through shining that life will be the main reason why

I just want to let people know, man, that the justice system can be fixed, and there's people are here that's working every day to see that folks like myself that a rawfully convicted do have a chance to get out because there's people out here working and they're looking into cases and they digging up the dirt on these wrongful, unlawful police prosecutors, even states attorneys and even the judges. They come in after them a loan as they keep

Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburn, and Kevin Warnis, with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow me on both