#326 Jason Flom with Octavius Williams

outside between members of either family. Two people drew guns, and one man, Dennis Cole, ended up in the hospital paralyzed from the waist down. Police were told that the shooter was a young black man who had already fled the scene. When they went upstairs to speak with the partygoers in the apartment, they found and arrested a young black man, seventeen year old Octavius Williams. The victim eventually

stabilized and identified Octavius from a photo array. Despite conflicting accounts of what happened during the shooting, it appears the state had clear of They got their man. But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today's story. Well, I'll just say Shakespeare could have written this one, and he would rank up there with some of the crazy plot twists and some of his best work. And you're going to find out why as we go along in

today's episode. And without further ado, I want to introduce our guests. With two guests today, the man himself who lived through this absolutely bizarre and insane sequence of events, Octavius Williams. Octavius um happier here, but I'm sorry, do you hear, because of what happened to you that brought you to this point. But anyway, welcome to Wrongful Conviction. There's a pleasure of being here for sure. Thank you.

With Octavias is JOANNEA. Sanchez and Joanna is the director of the Wrongful Conviction Project at the office of the Ohio Public Defender. So I imagine, Joanna, you have your hands full and I'm glad that you are here to share with us about this incredible story. So welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having us and this story. This is a relatively recent case compared to some of the cases listening. We have cases back from the seventies, um, but this one, this one happened just I mean, it's

a short time ago. It was also a long time ago two thousand and eleven. Of course, this is Kuya Hooga County, and we've heard that name again and again on this podcast as sort of a hotbed of wrongful convictions. And I want to go back Octavia's two before this Horrible Night, where what started off as sounds like a joyous occasion turned into this tragedy left some body paralyzed and and and put your life on paralysis. Really, I mean, it's an awful scenario all the way around. But your life,

for that was full of promise. Tell us a little bit about the family dynamic and what was your life like growing up? What we what were you into on my life? He was saying, like a regular life, like you know, my parents was. Everything was cool, even though they was divorced and he was doing on the west side of my dad was doing the west side. It was just we was always close, you know, so it was never a split time in between that we didn't see each other. Like I said, everything was cool. It

was two households obvious. Used to go to my dad house a lot because we had a different bond than me and my mom. Other than that, they decided to send me to my own school because I guess they've seeing that I had a different potential than my other siblings. I understand you were like a super talented basketball player, is that right? Yeah? And still is, But like that was my passion. Anybody my family say I was a

golden ticket. Let let them tell it. Before I was accostrated, I was attending this school called Margaret Island is on Chester. They gave me a shot to be on their team, and I took it. Then though, I was that good, you know, but you know, just enough to be scouted, you know, when and out of nowhere, it just it take it away, you know. So you were you were in the eleventh grade when this when this, uh, when it's her, Well, you were coming up in your reputation.

I mean, if it's reached all the way up to New York one, there must have been some excitement around your potential. So tell us a little bit about what happened that night. Why how did you end up at this party? Was it? Whose house was it at? My dad was Ardenterian, his girlfriend Consuela. They threw a party from my little sister. It was her birthday, like literally like about your birthday. But we threw it on Halloween. She was turning seeing. Somehow, some way, it ended up

an adult party at nighttime. Every brought everybody together, like everything was cool, Everything was cordial. You know, everybody was having a good time. You know, there was never no problems between the families, you know what I'm saying. But some ways, somehow, I don't nowhere. At the end of the party, as things were settling it down, all the alter care and stuff start happening. Yeah, this started at

a Halloween party in two thousand and ten. So Octavius's dad, Arden and Arden's girlfriend Kenezuela, We're hosting a party at their house. They had about thirty to forty family members there and as the party starts to wind down, going to about midnight, a bit of a conflict erupts, and so no one really knows like why the fight started. It's a verbal fight kind of. The two sides of

the family are arguing a bit. At that point, Octavius and his dad and some others are upstairs in their apartment and this is happening down in the backyard behind the apartment. So Octavius's dad goes downstairs the backyard. He confronts one of the men, Larry who's kind of causing some of the problems, and Larry shoots a gun and

he starts shooting towards Arden, so Arden ducks down. There's guns firing, and then when the shooting stops, a man named Dennis Cole, who was Conezuela's cousin, and her other cousin, Cedric Johnson, are both shot and Dennis has been shot in the chest in the back, and the police come and they say, you know who shot you? And he

can't say at that time more than juvenile blackmail. And you know, there's quite a few people at the party that match that description, but some of the other individuals who had been at the party by the point the police get there, they've already left. And so at that point there's a lot of people out there just yelling names and saying, you know, was that this person was

at that person? And so the police at some point here in the name Tete and that's octavius nickname, and so I think that sets them on the path towards Octavius. The police they go upstairs and Octavius is upstairs in the apartment. He's in the bedroom with a bunch of the kids who are there and they're like, hey, this guy matches the description in the sense that he's a seventeen year old black kid, and so they test him for gunshot residue. It comes back negative. They look for

guns weapons on him, they find nothing. By this point, they've heard that the person actually did the shooting has left the party. But even with all of that, they decided let's arrest him, and so they arrested Octavius and take him to the police station. They didn't know that I was under age. They took me straight to the adult jail. I know, I was scared shitless. They didn't even ask my age and know that they just straight took me to the big house until they realized that

whenever in my social that I was a juvenile. Then I had to sit there for a little bit before they transferred back to the juvenile. You know, they had you stripped down all this, I mean I was I felt volid it. No, I never still negdi in front of a man before. I mean, you were still a child, just a junior in high school, thrust into a very adult situation. And despite the negative GSR test, no weapons on you. Hearing that the shooter had already left the party.

They just went ahead and booked you anyway. And meanwhile, the victim, Dennis Cole, was at the hospital. He had stabilized by now, and he had seen his shooter. Now, at the time Dennis Cole was shot, there's a lot of problems that would lead to an unreliable identification. So, first of all, there's a gun involved in this crime, which we know can distract someone from really looking at

the perpetrator. We also know it was dark, and perhaps most significantly, Dennis Cole had a blood alcohol of point to seven at the time that this occurred, and so he's more than three times the legal limit. And that's the circumstances that he's observing this crime. And so Dennis Cole was shot in the chest and the back. You know, he survived. He was in the hospital for several months. He was paralyzed, but he did survive. And so the police get there. He gives this description again. This time

he adds a little bit more details. So he says, you know, black male juvenile. It was one of Arden's sons, not the one with the hair. And so Arden had several sons. Octavius has a few brothers, so a few of them are at the party, and Dennis's family says, you know, if he says it's the one not with the hair, well, then that's Ricky. That's an Octavius, that's Ricky. And by this point the police are starting to get calls from people saying Ricky Williams committed this crime. That's

Octavius's older brother. But they still move forward with putting Octavius in a photo array and showing it to Dennis Cole. The only person who was at the party who's in this array is Octavius, and he's heard the name at some point in the background, so he identifies him and selects him from the photo ray. Right, so they knew that the shooter was somebody at the party. The victim had identified the shooter as quote, one of Arden's sons,

not the one with the hair end quote. According to the victim's own family, what that meant was that it was octavius older brother, Ricky, who looks a lot like Octavius and who was also at the party. If they had wanted to make a more reasonable photo ration, they've included at least Ricky's photo, or perhaps pictures of other people who are at the party. I mean, nonetheless, the only person in this photo array that was even at

the party was Octavious. Now, the image of Octavius is Ace was the one that Dennis Cole had gotten fixed in his mind as the shooter. At some point several months later, they'll give Dennis the photo ray that includes Ricky Williams. But at that point he's already picked Dr Tavius and committed to that identification. So you know, he doesn't make the selection at that point either. Well, many people think their minds operate more or less like cameras.

In fact, that's not even close to the truth. And our minds played tricks on us in all kinds of ways. But among other things, we will start to tailor our memory to match influences that are shown to us or suggested to us. And so, you know, here's a guy who's been through this horrific experience of being shot twice and is now laying in this hospital bed and and and his as you said, his blood alcohol level, I mean,

he was really drunk. So that is the beginning of his memory sort of fixing itself onto O. Now the police have this identification, and they're really not looking at anything else. At that point, they're really not considering other leads. At trial, there's multiple people who testified that Ricky was the person who was responsible for this shooting. Octavius and Ricky's little sister, Jessica, was upstairs in the apartment. You know,

here's like this fight going on in the backyard. So she looks out to see what's going on and she sees Ricky back there with a gun. There's another young boy upstairs, Reginald Ward, he's fourteen years old. He's actually the victim's cousin, and he looks out also and here's the fight, and he sees Dennis Cole go up to Ricky punch him in the face, and then Ricky shoot him. So there are people who are on the scene that night who know that Ricky Williams was responsible for this.

And what we learned looking at the trial was that the police actually started to get messages and voice mails saying hey, Ricky Williams is the one who committed this crime, and they don't go out and talk to him. You know, they I think they said Davis's family like, hey, let let Ricky know we want to talk to him, but they didn't actually go find him, or bring him in or try to interrogate him or even interview him. They just kind of collected that information but still went forward

investigating and prosecuting Octavius. How lazy can you be that you have multiple people coming forward, tips coming in and they can't even be bothered to go and speak to him, And at that very moment they should have switched course. Octavius should have been freed, Ricky should have been arrested, and we should never be making this podcast right now. But that's, of course not what happened. Octavious. You were

charged with attempted murder and several other related defenses. All of this must have just I mean, how how were you able to process this as a seventeen year old kid. You're not even a senior in high school, yet you're just a child. I didn't process it until I was asked the imprison I understand that being a jail is hard, but being a jail innocent, though, and you know that

you are, is way harder, real hard. There's another sick aspect of this that I have to focus on, which is the fact that Octavius was tried as an adult because he turned a came before the trial began. Now, how does that make any freakondifference? Right, he was seventeen when it happened. If you were so in theory, they could this crime could have happened and he was thirteen. They could have held him five years until trial and then and we've seen that before too, But it's nut.

You can't both be a child and an adult at the same time. But they managed to try him as an adult. Anyway. Now, at trial, the victim testified that you were the shooter, Octavius, but multiple other witnesses testified under oath that you were upstairs in the apartment when the fight and the shooting occurred, and the shooting obviously with downstairs, and witnesses who watched the fight from the window in the apartment testified that Key shot to victim,

not you. I didn't know that it was him that shot anybody. I didn't know that. It was for sure hard to process when I when I realized that what people were saying that who it was. So the child lasted five days, and the jury had a choice between the perspective of all these other witnesses who were directly contradicting the victim himself, who had by now convinced himself that you were the person that had shot him, and

off they went to deliberate. I just sat there. And the reason that I was cool and I was calm is because I had I knew that I had to keep my composure no matter what the verdict was. But I was angry. I'm just very good at keeping it to myself. I'm very good at hot in it. But when they came up with that verdict, though, I felt like my heart stopped, just just just the beat or two. But you know, I got I got my my hair back.

I never thought that I would be the one to be and causer ready as a fresh eighteen in there. Uh you know, I had to take the scenery in and had to get used to me being around a lot of older people, a lot of killers, a lot of rapists in all this that I'm not used to, you know, So I had to adapt to my surroundings. And it was kind of hard, you know, because of

the unexpected fights and stuff like that. Like you know, you're seeing movies and things like that, it's not how it is, and movies, you know, this really pop off like nowhere. So from what I understand, not long after your trial concluded, your brother came forward and actually confessed to shooting Mr Cole. I believe he even made a written statement where he said, and I quote. Shortly after the party ended, an argument occurred outside the apartment complex

between my father, Ardent Terry, and Larry Johnson. They had a few words back and forth, but once the argument reached the back of the apartment, I was right in front of the back door, and all of a sudden, Larry Johnson started shooting towards me and my father's direction. And shortly after, Dennis Cole ran at me and punched me in the eye, and I pulled out my gun and shot him out of fear for me and my family's lives because shots were being fired at us first.

And quote, Wow, that's a pretty detailed confession. And this all happened within a month or so of your trial, while you were being processed into Toledo Correctional where you'd spend a long stretch. So when you heard about this confession, like, I can't even imagine, like, what was your reaction? I was, I was, oh man, and I didn't know anything about it.

Oh man, I was, I was pissed, like I was really I was really pissed like Peru, because if the people would have done what this we're supposed to do, then maybe that would have made it, all of it. It's a little correctional inscision. Oh yeah, I was. I was. I was for sure that was that was passed. I was angry with you that all of this could have been avoided. Did you have an attorney at that time, and if so, I imagine you were on the phone with with him or her in seconds, going hey, get

me out of here. This is right. I tried. I'm not gonna say that in reply to my messages or whatnot, but it took weeks for me to get something back from them, you know, when they have all of this in the front of them. Yeah, that sly seems like one of these situations where the doors should just swing open and you should come running out into the sunshine. But of course that's not the way it works. Joanna,

how did you get involved? And this must have blown your mind when you heard that there was this detailed confession as well as all this other evidence pointing to actual innocence. Octiv is applied to our project. I think around two thousand and twelve, and so we had a couple of students assigned to it and they started looking into it, and you know right away there's red aggs for us. So the first is that the only evidence that implicates him is this eyewitness identification, that it's just

plagued with problems. And then there's no physical evidence, and we've got these witnesses at trial who are saying Ricky Williams did the crime. So we started investigating, and the focus of our investigation was really too confirm some of the things that happened at trial. To go out and talk to Reginald Ward and Schifond to English and Jessicatian say, you know, is what you testified to it trial true?

And then we wanted to consult with an eyewitness identification expert and make sure that what we thought we were seeing about the identification that we were correct and that there were all these problems, right, these are all the issues that could have and should have already been known at the time of trial. But then there's this confession from Ricky Williams. We actually went and talked to Ricky.

We sent out an investigator before we had ever seen the affidavit that he had already signed, and so our investigator goes to talk to Ricky, and Ricky immediately starts talking about that night and says, hey, I committed this crime. And so he signs an affidavit right there in front of our investigator, going through everything that happened that night, which matches up exactly with what the witnesses said, which is that there was this fight and Dennis Cole punched

Ricky and Ricky shot him. And so once we got that confession, yeah, of course we thought we had it locked up. This is this is as clear evidence as we could get that Octavius has been telling us the truth this whole time. He didn't commit this crime, and we thought that it was clear he was innocent and that he should be released. But of course the wheels of justice turned quickly when we're processing somebody into the system, but when we're trying to right those wrongs, they turned

at his nail's pace. And this is a dramatic example of it, because even in a case like this, where it couldn't be more obvious and had I'm going to say, if the police had done their jobs in the first place, if they had just gotten interviewed Ricky. They probably would have seen a bruise if he was punched in the eye. Granted they couldn't have gotten maybe the gunshot residue, because if they couldn't have found him that night, it would

have been washed away. But this would have been a very simple case to solve, had people been interested in really solving it as opposed to just putting a black body behind bars. So it was submitted for review by the Conviction Integrity Unit of the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's Office, and they, as I understand it, conducted an extensive investigation.

So around the time that we had collected all of the evidence in this case, michael'malley had come into office, and part of his campaign had been to take this Conviction Integrity Unit and really put some resources behind it and make it a legitimate unit. So that's why we submitted Octavius case. In our mind, it was like, this is clear as day. Let's show them the evidence and try to work together. And as you said, for two

and a half years they investigated this case. They talked to all sorts of witnesses, they tested evidence, We let them look at the defense files, they talked to Octavius, and in fact, a prosecutor and I actually went out and interviewed Ricky Williams together, and Ricky confessed on tape to a prosecutor. And after wrapping up what they say, we're several years of investigative work on the story behind

octavius conviction. The see i use Internal Review Board cast a majority vote in favor of what the criminal justice system calls and our audience is very familiar with those words exoneration and actual innocence. The see i use Independent Review Panel concurred with it. Get this a unanimous vote. They said that Octavius Williams was innocent of this crime. There two panels, one internal, one made of community members, as you said, voted in favor of exoneration. And so

once we heard that news, were of course elated. We think this is that we think Octavius is coming home help be exonerated. And then we learned that the elected prosecutor, Michael O'Malley wouldn't agree to exoneration. So rather than letting activa Is out and agreeing to move the court to dismiss the charges, he agreed to let him out, but not to clear the case. And so in Ohio. That's

called judicial release. So in December of two, nineteen, Octavius gets to go home after serving about ten eleven years in prison, but still has this attempted murder charge hanging over his head. It's nuts the fact that he went against the unanimous recommendation of his own unit that he had so highly touted during his campaign. I can't even begin to speculate what his motives are. There's a quote

where he said, what is justice in this case? I think in this particular case, we did the best we could. I think we did what was right end quote. What in the world is he talking about? And what would he possibly have been motivated by to still want to deny justice and what is probably one of the easiest exoneration cases he's ever going to see. Nonetheless, on December Octavis, you were free to go, but you weren't declared innocent.

So this must have been as joyous as it must have been to finally walk out into the free air. Must have been bitter sweet. No, yeah, it was. It was to know that I was at home. It was more sweet than bitter, though, you know, because I was actually outside of that place. Again. You know what I'm saying, and then as I said it realized I still have the same thing had on my head. So not that messages with my future job wise, I can't get a good job with the top one Fetterly, you have to

really put your neck out there. I hope that it don't get cut off a note for you to make his meet. The fact that they made you wear an ankle monitor and I have a thirty day curfew and two years on probation is really rubbing salt in the wound. And I think it's insulting not just to you, but to the public um and to the members of the board who you know, who carefully considered this case, to the people who worked two and a half years to

investigate this case. It's yeah, it's an it's all to all of those people and to everyone who cares about justice that they would double down, so to speak, on this wrongful conviction. And one other thing that's happened recently, this just occurred in November of last year, is that all of the community members of the Conviction Integrity Unit resigned.

And they resigned because for the past couple of years they hadn't been given any cases and because they had met with the prosecutor and talked about what they wanted their role to be, and they believed in the mission of the Conviction Directory Unit and wanted to be able to use that unit to achieve justice for people and didn't feel that they were being given the opportunity to do that. And and so they resigned. And there's no longer any community members of the unit at this point. Wow,

that's powerful statement. I can send you their resignation letter which has you know, all the reasons why they resigned. Yeah, everyone be on the lookout for that on our Instagram. I mean, how in the world could the community members of the Cuyahoga County ce IU not be given any cases at all to review for years, just not even given them at all to even review. From what we know about that town, there should be somewhere between a steady flow and an avalanche of cases, because it's about

as corrupt as it gets. So we for a full exoneration in octavious case. And maybe this episode will serve to shine some light on the Cuyahoga CiU and the wishes of those community members. We'd hate to think that the CiU over there is just a bunch of window dressing, something to be talked about around election time. Let's go

ahead and hold Michael Maalley accountable. And speaking of accountability, I'm guessing that the decision to leave this conviction hanging over Octavius head means that they never went after Ricky. Is that accurate? That's right? So Ricky has never been charged with this offense. He's incarcerated for another offense, so shooting that occurred about a year after the events that

gave rise to this case. But this is a person who's confessed over and over that he shot an individual on October thirty one, two thousand ten, and he's never been charged with that crime. I can't even begin to imagine what the hell anybody's thinking. I mean, if they were prosecuting Ricky, they certainly would use these confessions as proof to get their conviction. I mean, it's the most

compelling evidence that he committed this crime. But when we're talking about using it to exonerate Octavious, it's not good enough. Of course, It's an infamous double standard that we see over and over again all through our criminal legal system. So where are we at in that fight? He's free, But that doesn't mean you guys are just gonna give

up on his full exoneration. After Octavius was released, we still went ahead and filed emotion seeking a new trial, And the basis of that was the fact that Ricky has confessed all of these times and the report of an Eyewinness identification expert really talking about the problems with

Dennis Cole's identification. So we filed that at the beginning of Then the pandemic hits, so things really slowed down in the courts for quite a long time, and eventually last May we had hearing on the motion, and so right now we're waiting on a decision on that's been pending for about seven months. But if that's granted, the impact of that will be that octavius conviction will be vacated. And at that point, if if we do achieve that, we hope that Michaelmalley will dismiss the charges and that

help be exonerated. Well, let's hope that we don't see a judge willing to ignore this clear case of innocence, as Mr O'Malley seems so comfortable in doing before him. Now, in the meantime, with this conviction still hanging over your head. I know it's been tough looking for work. You don't have a go fund me or anything like that, but I'm sure there are members of our audience would like to help in your job search. I mean, I hope. So, if there's somebody in the area that's got something, what

kind of work are you looking for. I'm been looking for demolition. I'm looking for factory jobs. You know, I've just got my tullowder license. You know. Also, that's basically what I'm looking for. You still live in the Cleveland area, Yeah, all right, So construction and factory type work in the Cleveland area will have ways that our audience can reach out to you just by simply going to the link

in our bio. So if you're somebody who's got an idea, don't stop listening right now, put it on pause, and go right to the link in the bio and and reach out. And also, if anyone with a law degree or some clout in the Cleveland area who wants to offer their help in bringing about Octavius is full exoneration, please do reach out as well. And with that we come to my favorite part of the show, of course,

it's called closing arguments, and it works like this. I'm gonna turn my microphone off, leave my headphones on, of course, kick back in my chair, and close my eyes and just listen to any other thoughts you want to share with me and our amazing audience. Joanna, let's start with you, and then of course we'll have Octavio's close out the show. Thank you for having us today and for sharing this story.

I think Octavius's case is a really sad example of how hard it can be for the wrongfully convicted to obtain relief and to get justice. As we talked about today, his case is really straightforward. We know who did it. We've got multiple confessions from Key, we've got the conviction Integrity Unit saying he should be exonerated, and still here he sits with this hanging over his head. It's sad,

it's discouraging. It's the role of a prosecutor to seek justice, not to maintain convictions, and that's not what happened here. But we're thankful for the opportunity to shina light on octivius case, and we're still fighting. You know. We filed a motion for new trial after he got out, and

that's still pending. We're waiting for a decision on that, so that hopefully in the in the coming months and years, Octavius can move forward with his life and nothing will ever make him home, nothing will ever give him those ten years back or change what happened to him. But while he's home, he hasn't gotten the true justice he deserves, and our hope is that one day we can't accomplish that for him. Yeah, man, how can you say that you will free someone if you still have something hanging

over someone's head. How was that necessarily free? It's not free. Send me Labory. You took me out of one hail whole to make me feel that I'm free, But at the same time, I'm not. A lot of it still hurts to this day. Sometimes I don't speak about it, you know what I'm saying, because I'm a type of person. You know how a man is to keep it to themselves and try to deal with it theirself. That's just me. Sometimes I have a hard time. Sometimes I don't mental

state wise. You know, some people, I might look normal all this and on the outside, but you know, it's a lot going on in my in my mind because I can't get out there. It's and everywhere I turned I could hear and see something that reminds me of it. The other day, I went to the mall with my girl and we went there and I started getting anxious because it was a lot of people in there, and my hands started sweating. I started. I didn't know that they still had that type of effect on me. This

was years later. It's not easy for the ones that I've been there and constrated for a long time to just adapt to what's going on. I'm still adapting. Um, It's it's hard. I know that for sure. Sometimes you have your mom is where you're you're happy, you're things feel easy or would not just set the But a lot of times it's just you don't know really what's going on. You're just You're just in the world, just the piece on the chessboard, wait for your move. Thank

you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne, and Kevin Ortis. With research by Lila Robinson. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram. At Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at

wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow me on both TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason flom ronvul Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one