I'm Jason Flam, host of wrongful conviction. Over the years, hundreds of exanneries have told me their stories, and sadly, with the state of our criminal legal system, we're left with far more cases than I can possibly handle alone. So I've asked some exuneries to handle some of these cases, bringing the kind of perspective to the interviews that could only come from living through their own wrongful convictions. This is one of those interviews.
On a hot August night in nineteen ninety one, University of Pennsylvania grad student t jung Hoe was walking with his friend at Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia. A white Chevy blazer with four people inside pulled up beside them. Two of them got out of the car, robbed t jung Hoe and shot him. He died of his injuries. A few hours later. A cab driver witnessed the shooting. He told police what he saw and what he remembered of
the license place the first three letters YCA. Just a few minutes later, the police pulled over a white Chevy blazer with YCA on the plate. They thought they caught the criminal. He was a twenty one year old Chester home in the third he didn't match the description of the shooter, and there were only two people in his car, not four. Chester didn't have a weapon nor anything from the robbery. Nevertheless, he was arrested and taken to the station.
In May nineteen ninety three, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. This is wrongful conviction. My name is Jimmy A.
Dennis.
I spent twenty five point five years on death row for a crime I didn't commit. I was a guest on wrong for conviction and talked to Jason about my own experience in the criminal justice system years ago. But today I'll be your guest host. I'm here with Chester Holme in the third He and I know each other well. Our stories overlap and highlight the patterns of misconduct in the.
Philadelphia criminal justice system.
Chester, as Jason always says, I'm happy you're here, but I'm not happy that you're here.
Could you introduce yourself.
Chester Holman. I've served twenty eight years on a wrong for conviction. I've now been home since twenty nineteen.
And today we're also joined by your attorney, Alan Tarboro.
Thank you for joining us today.
Alan.
Could you introduce yourself as well.
Hi Jimmy. My name is Alan Tarboro. I'm an attorney. I've been practicing law since nineteen eighty nine, most of which has been criminal defense and civil rights. And I met Chester and two thousand and four, two thousand and five, I had the distinction and honor of representing him for fifteen years before we actually won his exoneration. Every time I see him and talk to him outside of the prison, it just brightens my heart.
Remarkable Chester.
I want to ask you, my friend, what was your life like prior to being stolen away for a crime you didn't commit.
I was born in Chester, Pennsylvania. That's where I grew up, and then we at some point we moved to Delaware, Womington, Delaware. You know it was I said, it was a regular life.
You know.
My father worked very hard. You know, my mother was on dialysis. You know, me and my sister, you know, we were involved and you know from the time I can remember it with sports and some type of activity.
You know.
I went to community college and I started off at a Wimington community college and I moved to Fildelphia Community College and I was studying actual criminal justice. I didn't know which field I wanted to go to. I know, if it was law enforcement or you know, some type of legal field, but that's what I was doing. Then I got a job at a as an armored card guard. I was driving for Brooks Armored Car. I went moved to Philadelphia, down Northffilly to BroadOn Gerard and I was
there and uh, you know, just living my life. I thought the world was my oyster, and I think I had all these plans of how things were going to eventually end up being and uh, just one that one tragic night, it just all came to a crashing end. And spent the next twenty eight years fighting to get back.
When you practice criminal defense, one of the old adages is one of things you hear is that there's no such thing as coincidences, right. But the other rule is there's always an exception to that case, and Chester Holman's case is the exception. Chester was the victim of, you know, many things, but most substantially he was a victim of
a very very remarkable and crazy coincidence. And that is in this case, which was a terrible case, a terrible brutal killing of a student, the perpetrators drove up to this young man at one am in Center City, was walking home from a It was walking home from the University of Pennsylvania campus, and there were four people in a white Chevy Blazer. Two men get out, two women
remained in the cars, sort of the getaway driver. The two men run up to the victim, push him to the ground, shoot him, and rob him of his wallet. There was a woman with him. His friend standing directly next to him witnessed the entire thing from three feet two three feet away. They get into a white Chevy Blazer and drive away. It's one am. It's hot August night. Actually a lot of people out in Center City and
the vehicle is trailed. Is followed by a cab driver who witnesses this, and the cab driver gets half of the vehicle's tag, follows him through traffic for a few blocks and disappears. Yza right, that was the letters doesn't get the numbers as the vehicle turns out to have been rented by I think it was Enterprise. They had three three identical vehicles on rental in Philadelphia that same
day and the vehicle. What made this even more astonishing is they bought and put into service these three vehicles at the same day, so when they registered them, they got tags YZA zero zero one, Why ZA is year zero two? Why is is YEZER three? And the cab driver only got the letters that repeated, not the numbers. As it happens, Chester's driving one of those other vehicles that had been rented by his roommate and had been loan given to him to use that weekend. He's driving
toward the crime scene. He's stopped five minutes, not five minutes after the murder. Driving toward the crime scene in the idea, I dentical vehicle with the same tag, and he meets the general description of what one of the perpetrators look like. The young woman in the car with him DJ Jones met the general description of of one of the women in the car, and they stop him. And I mean, I could imagine you're a young police officer and that's who stopped him. You're thinking, man, I
just solved this crime. I got you know, you know, you got a car with the tag. You're thinking you solved the crime. Well, all the people involved in this case were then convinced they solved the crime. Never mind that Chester was not wearing his clothing didn't match any of the description the witnesses gave. Never Mind that there were only two people, not four people in the car. Never Mind there's no proceeds of the robbery, no weapon,
and he's driving back towards the scene. Never Mind all that. Never Mind the fact that the young woman who was with the person who was killed can't identify Chester. Other than the vehicle, nothing else lined up.
Chester. Tell me about your note that night and you were out, and what you were doing, and where you were going, and whom you had with you. Talk about that a little bit for me.
I had to just returned home from Delaware. I went down to my parents' house, and I spent most of the day in Delaware, and I was there to about maybe midnight. I left there and I went home to where I lived on Broad and Gerard came out the garage, went around front, and I passed Deirdre, her sister, and I spoke to him, and Sheddre asked me where I was going except to my apartment. So and then I said, what do you want to do now? Because this was
my first full day of vacation. I had never had a vacation in my life.
On a job.
So you know that Monday, I was starting vacation for a week vacation and I paid vacation.
Yeah that's what I'm talking about.
Yeah, so I'm excited. You know, I ain't ready to go to sleep this Saturday night. I mean, I was like, litten, let's you want to go somewhere, But we didn't know where to go. So I was like, listen, I had a friend who lived down on a fifty second in Greenway. I sai, let's go down here check out him. So we get downstairs, and I had a black Toyo to Sellica GT at the time, and then we also had the Blazer. So I asked her which car she wanted to take, So let's take the Blazer to put the
miles on that car rather than my car. So so we get out, we pull out, and we circle around and we go straight down to broad Street. As soon as we turned on to Lombard, there was I mean, there wasn't a car or person in sight. I mean I've never seen Philly like this. I mean it was like a dead zone. So I knew something wasn't right, but I kept going and I turned the music down and we approached the first light on Lombard and I stopped at that light and I saw a police car
going north. So when the light turned green, I proceeded forward and you know, I'm looking in the rear view mirrors. Next thing, you know, the lights pop on.
So I was like, damn, what did I do?
So I pull over, like a half a block down. I pull over and next thing you know, they jump out with guns drawn.
Oh wow, I know.
That was very uncomfortable.
Yeah, so I asked you, I said, what we do? What we do?
She said, I don't know, I don't know. Next thing you know, they're in front of the car with the guns pointed at us. You know, we got our hands up and they took us out the car and uh put the handcuffs on us, and uh.
You night mare began.
Yes, tell me how.
You felt being arrested and then subsequently being taken to the police station and what happened in that interrogation room with those police detectives.
Well, that that night, after we were put out the car, I was placed in the back of a police car and I saw Djre being placed in another car and I didn't I didn't know where we were going. But later found out we were being taken to the scene of the crime. So when we got there, uh, there was like maybe four or five people underneath the street.
Like I saw police officers take these four or five people, whoever whatever it was, go to Deidrich where she was, and they opened the back door and I saw him looking, and then they came back and did the same thing to me, and I made sure I stuck my head out so they could see me, and you know, everybody was like I heard everybody say, that's not him, that's not him. And then uh, I heard over the police radio saying the guy had died. Take take the suspect
to homicide. So I said what So when I heard that, I said, I said, you know, my first thought is this is a murder. So you know, I was like, what so I'm telling I said, officer, I said, you got.
The wrong guy. I'm tall, you got the wrong guy. And when I get in.
The car, when an officer said he said you're done now, he said You're never going to see the light of day. And I was like, you know, I'm just sitting in his back seets like, hon now, what does this happened? So we get to aph and Race and they take me upstairs and put me in this room that's freezing, and I see this green chair. This bolted to the floor, so they put me in this chair. They handcuffed me to this chair, and I'm just sitting there like freezing,
like this cannot be happening. So my first interaction with the officer was Detective Jeff Pyrie. He came in and I'm a little excited, like to tell my story and try to get this all worked out. So I'm thinking it's gonna work out, and he comes in and punches me right in the mouth. He said, you like killing people in my city, right, you know what I mean. So I was just like looking at him. I ain't know what to say or do. So I'm just sitting
there and he walks out. I'm sitting there just like stunned, like this is this is bad. I'm just in this is bad. I told him. I said, I worked for Brooks Armor Car.
You know what I mean?
I said, I don't know what happened, I said, but I drive around millions of dollars. I'm in and out of the banks Garden Street Park, were picking up money. I mean, I'm I got three million dollars on the average in the back of my truck every day.
Right, You're an honorable citizen. You are a good citizen of Philadelphia.
Period.
Yeah.
So I said, if I wanted to rob somebody, I'm gonna ribe a commerce on the street. I'm gonna pull this truck and just keep going.
Looking back.
Where I feel like I really messed up was first of all speaking to him in the first place. But I just figured that, you know, since I had nothing to hide, it was okay to talk. And then by me working for Brooks, you know, I thought that would just like bolster my innocence. And he showed him that I had no reason to rob anybody. But it didn't happen. So I told him that I had a gun back in my apartment, my work gun, and I told him
where it was in my apartment. So I got my badge, my my bulletproof rounds of AMMO was in my bottom drawer inside my bedroom. And you know, later on down the road, come to find out it was all used against me.
You did not mess up. We are taught in this country that the police are our friends from the town. We are babies, and that we are supposed to go down to the police station, cooperate and do us right, And that's all you did. You did what any actual citizen would do. Now we know that you can't even talked to them at all because they are not trustworthy.
That is exactly what Chester's mindset was. Because we've talked about this, you were like, you thought they would figure it out, they would work This is gonna get worked out. They're going to get to the bottom of this. There's a mistake. At some point, the police stop becoming detectives, they stop trying to discern the truth, and they start
becoming advocates, and they start to do. Everything they do is to build the case, to make it stronger against who they've in their judgment or they've decided is guilty, as opposed to continuing to investigate and try to get to the actual truth tunnel vision. Yeah, and that is one of the things I have learned in the system, is that police the culture or the science of policing. It's more of the culture of policing is we are
trying to get to the truth to a point. But once we've decide or we discern in our judgment who it is, everything that that point, because how to build the case against that person. And they will ignore other evidence, they will suppress other evidence.
They will hid it, they will destroy it correct, and that's a problem.
This episode is underwritten by global law firm Greenberg Tryaig through its pro bono program. Greenberg Traig leverages its more than twenty four hundred lawyers across forty two offices to serve the greater good of our communities and provide equal
access to justice for all. In the field of criminal justice, Greenberg Triwerg attorneys have exonerated and freeomand in Philadelphia represent numerous individuals previously sentenced to life for crimes committed as juveniles and resentencing hearings, and receive the American Bar Association's twenty twenty one Exceptional Service Award for Death Penalty Representation
for their work on five death penalty cases. GT is reimagining what big law can be as a more just world only happens by design.
So, while let's talk about some of the players in the case, can you tell me about the police investigating the crime.
Let's start with David Baker, who was the detective who took the key statement in this case, which was dear jar Jones's statement, Chester's friend who was in the car. So she signs a seven eight page, single space statement extraordinarily detailed about the events of the night. I mean with detail that you would not be able to provide unless you were there minute to minute. So how does
that happen? How does David Baker get the statement? So over the course of the night, the police are interviewing numerous witnesses. There probably were eight, ten, twelve people who were interviewed who are witnesses, including Chester. So they are gathering lots and lots of details and lots and lots of information. And throughout the night they're going into see Deer just saying you know, you're gonna tell us what happened. She's like, you know, she sticks to it. I'm not involved.
I don't know what happened. I couldn't tell you. And eventually they they get her to relent. They threaten to take her children away, they threatened to charge her with as a conspirator, that she's going to go to jail for life. The straw that breaks, I think that breaks the camel's back for her. She's not getting a lawyer, is they walk in with Chester's statement, which of course is completely exculpatory, and they say, oh, your boyfriend has confessed.
He's testified. I mean, he's going to jail. You're not going to help us, We'll just charge you. He's already admitted it, which of course he didn't. So she signs the statement and that's how this David Baker gets the statement. So he David Baker was instrumental in another exoneration that happened roughly around the same time the case was a little was a little later Anthony Wright. Obviously, Jimmy, you
know Anthony Ray. Anthony Ray was exonerated about a year before Chester, same detective samem virtually very very similar situation. But Jimmy, it's important to note that, I mean, this is not exclusive to David Baker. I think what you see in the exonerations that have occurred over the past five years and even before is a pattern of this sort of these sort of tactics that existed across the homicide unit. David Baker was by no means the worst
of the detectives. I think. I think David Baker was more of a sort of ordinary regular detective who just followed the path that was before him.
That's a really good point, Alan, because it's not just one bad officer. We always talk about these bad apples, but what happens to an apple core when you have one bad apple ruins the whole bunch. And what we're talking about, it's a culture that encourages this behavior and ultimately leads to innocent people like myself and Chesterholm and having decades of their life destroyed behind bars for something that we didn't do. And so now, Alan, I want
to talk about some of the witnesses. Tell me about how the police built this case against Chester. But first let's talk about Andre Dawkins. He ends up being a pretty important to the state's case.
Talk about that.
Andre Dawkins was a I believe at the time he may have been homeless. He was sweeping up a parking lot at a gas station down the block from where the murder happened. And Andre Dawkins had a very tough life. He had substance abuse issues, he had mental health issues. He had many many arrests and conditions for petty thefts
and petty offenses. He had open cases at the time, He had a bench warrant at the time, and the police He's threatened to be incarcerated twelve different ways, and basically they led him to identify Chester, make an idea of Chester. But that was Andre Dawkins, and Andre Dawkins recant his id years later. He was the first one to recant. You know, we met him, I would say about eight or ten years later, and he could not
have been more remorseful about doing what he did. It was astonishing how much you remembered the lead detective, not David Baker's. Another detective was now deceased. Knew where Andre hung out. He's hung around in a certain part of Center City, and Andre told me that for the entire year or so between the arrest and the trial, this detective would show up and give give him money every week. All of this history, all of his history, was unavailable
to Chester's lawyer at the time. The prosecutor had it. Roger King had it in the file and it could have been used to impeach him, and Roger Kin kept that he hit it, so the jury didn't get the benefit of knowing about Andre's background and all the reasons why he would not have been a credible witness.
So Alan, you mentioned Roger King, I know him very well. So explain a little more about who Roger King was and his reputation in Philadelphia at this time.
Roger King was a bit of a legend in Philadelphia, a very sort of charismatic African American prosecutor. He came from Alabama. His dad was a minister. He clearly was raised with this. He learned the language of preaching. Let's put it that way.
Yes, yes, he was very theatrical, very theatrical, and was very very effective and deployed that in the courts in Philadelphia, and you know, in a very cynical way.
The District Attorney's office would bring him out and assign these cases where race was clearly you know, they would they would never they would never say it, but obviously they would deploy him in a in a very you know where race was a question.
I'll say exactly what it was for you, just for the wrong for conviction listening audience, what Island has been speaking to are the dirty tactics of the Philadelphia Police Department Homicide Division. Threatening a witness is not uncommon. They did it in Chester case, they did it in Anthony Right case, they did it in Jimmy Dennis case. My case right, and they would threaten the witness, tell them they put him in jail, tell them they take away
their kids, so on and so forth. And then in terms of Roger King, he would lie, he would cheat, he was still, he would pay witnesses. He was nothing more than an evil man.
He was very He was a very a moral person and a very amorl prosecutor. So prosecutor's duty is to do justice, and for Roger King, doing justice was winning at all costs. There was no review, There was no reconsideration, There was no reflection should new evidence come up. In Chester's case, we found hidden at evidence that he hit that was hidden in his file that he didn't turn over, and then and then after the trial when it was discovered, tried to say this was that he wasn't aware of
it, it was accidental. It was in his file with time stamps that showed he had this before trial.
Justice, speak to me about your charges. What were you charged with? And then subsequently when they took you to the county prison. Because I want people to understand and know that it is something to be in prison, period, but it is a different animal when you are innocent. Speak to that if you will.
I was more or less numb because I couldn't believe that this was happening. You know what I'm saying. You watch TV all the time.
You see all these different things on TV about these police shows, and but you never see this. And I asked one of the officers, I said, look, can I use the phone? I said, I haven't got on the phone. I call my mom. Well when I called, you know, I was so relieved to hear a voice the phone. It's like it was only half a ring. And she'd already pill up the phone. And uh, even before I could say anything, she had already told me because it
was all over the news. I said, well, we're gonna need a lawyer, and she said, we're already working on it. And I said, uh, we need the best lawyer. And uh, you know, I'm crying back and forth, we both crying. My mom, we crying. But at the same time, I'm realizing I can't keep crying. Just you know, being here, I knew that much. So, uh, she said, we're gonna get a lawyer. Well, you know, we're gonna get you
out of there. So I'm believing that. And I didn't know the uh you know what murder charges carried.
I ain't know.
I was looking at life. I ain't none of that. I just knew it was. It was bad, and I ended up going to d C. D C had no cells, and they put me in this hallway and we were just lying. There was this guy's lined up in this hallway and I'm sleeping on the floor and you know, I'm just looking around like.
This cannot be happening. I was there. I was only in DC for I think it was two days.
And they told me, because I had a homicide and it was a high profile homicide, that I was gonna be moved to Holmesburg Prison and.
That is the roughest county prison in Phila. Dulph is the worst of the worst.
And I didn't know that at the time.
And as soon as I walked on the block, I saw my face on the TV and I see like the whole block just got quiet, and everybody's looking back at me, and I'm like, oh my god. So they take me and they put me in the cell all the way in the back, and they gave me a single cell by myself, and then I was in the cellf maybe ten minutes, and these old three old guys came into the cell, you know, and open the gate.
You know, I'm thinking, first thing in my mind is they were about to attack me, you know, and you know that's what I'm thinking. And it was three old Muslim guys and they came in there and they just basically told me. And we saw your situation on the TV, he says, listening. He said, you're gonna be right. And they gave me to run down to the block. They said, look, mind your business. You know what I mean, respect one another. You know what I'm saying, don't look at nobody's sell.
That's and that's what I got. That that was my lesson.
They gave you the layer of land and you you were very fortunate to have those good Muslim brothers. Uh. I wish you knew their names so we could call their names out. So when you get to trial, you know, now know that you are going to trial, how does that make you feel?
So I was real hopeful, you know, I said, there's no way a jury can find me, you'd sic because the jury isn't corrupt like the police officers, and the district turns up that these are people of my peers. So I held out a little bit more hope. Uh So, you know, preparing for trial, you know, watching the whole process unfold, and I'm listening to Roger King. I'm watching all his movements and listening to his all his antics.
You know.
I said, man, this is gonna be a battle right here. And I was just wondering, you know, if my attorney at that time was time was up for it. I just didn't, you know. I know, they came to me with a deal, you know, offer me like the five to ten. They were like, listen, just take the deal, you know, and give up a shooter and you know you got three years left and you'll be home.
Let me speak to that real quick though, because that's another tactic. Every single one of us who had a high profile case was offered a deal, and every single one of us, Exonna Reeves in Philadelphia, said no. And that's what you did. Chester.
Once again, this.
Speaks to his innocence, but it speaks strongly to his character.
So I'll just say this, the deal that was offered was a phenomenal deal given the jeopardy that Chester faced. Life without parole in Pennsylvania is life without parole. There's no there's no loophole, there's no escape valve. I mean, there are innocent people who would have taken that deal, I can assure you, given the fear of facing life in jail. So it's no small bit of bravery not to take that. I'll just say that.
And for me, that's why Chester is in my phone as a champion. He's a brave guy. So that's no small feat. Roger King presents the state's case. And they have the victim's friend who was standing next to him when the robbery and murder happened. They have Andre Dawkins, whom they were paying to lie for them, and they have your friend Ddre who they threaten to get this statement. Alan. Let's talk about the defense and what did Chester lawyer gerald Stein present.
So I thought Jerry did a good job, very good job with what he had. He cross examined Andre Dawkins very effectively. Again for what he had, he didn't have all of his backgrounds.
Chester. Were you when you were sitting there in that courtroom and you had all these lies being bandied about about you? How did you feel that your attorney had done for you and his representation of you?
Looking back?
I mean, you know, and going back to that moment, you know, it's all new to me, Jimmy, you know what I'm saying, it's all new. So I'm watching it as it unfolds, and I'm hearing it. I'm knowing these are lies, and you know, at this point, I'm just like it was a fifty to fifty like Alan said, you know, I think he did the best of what
he could, you know, with what he had. But the thing for me and gerald Stein where we differ was that I wanted to testify, and I was very adamant on testifying, but gerald Stein had told me that I wasn't going to testify, and he told me that he was going to relinquish hisself from the case if I testified. So my mom and my grandmother, you know, they were so trusting of you know, the attorney who we don't know. But I said, okay, I said, you know, I said, I'm gonna trust this. I said okay.
And I didn't end up testifying.
You would literally put in a no win situation because here it is, the decision was yours, because it's your life, your life.
He said that Roger King will tell your part. He did say that but my whole, my whole mindset was always from the very beginning, was I have nothing to hide, man, I have nothing to hide.
And you just want the jury and everyone in courtroom to know the truth. I get it, I totally get it.
I was gonna say, Jimmy, I was just gonna say, like the conventional wisdom, and this is, you know, what you learned coming up is it's better not to testify. Once you exercise your right to testify, in some large way, the case becomes a referendum on your testimony. It's generally
perceived to be a very risky move. One bad answer or you get into a bad little line of question and you may have a strong case, but you could lose jurors because now they think you're not being honest or you don't have a good answer for one thing. There's a lot of people doing a lot of time because they chose to exercise their right to testify.
Like I just felt like all these negative things have been said about me that you know, and I haven't had an opportunity to say anything. This was my one opportunity, and I was willing to take the chance. I said, they gave me the.
Death penalty in life whatever, I didn't care. I said, you know, I want to be at sing and fight for myself. Even after we found guilty, I didn't never got to speak till after I got out of prison. This is twenty eight years later, So twenty eight years of silence.
We all on wrong for conviction. Wanted to have you on here was to give you a voice that you hadn't had for so many years. And so we are immensely glad that you and island that showed up to death. Tell me about when you were finally when you would convict at Trialchester and uh was your family in the courtroom, How did everybody feel? And what happened that day when the jury came back with their verdict.
Man, that was ah, yeah, that was that was That was uh, you know, I think the roughest day of my life. Actually, uh, my fate of my my future
was right here in these people's hands. And you know, listening to Roger King make his his final argument and you know, my attorney and I was just like, you know, this can go either way, you know, cause I'm sitting here and knowing I'm innocent, but at the same time I'm listening to Roger King, and I'm like, you know, he got me questioning myself, you know, because his his his his closing argument was just ridiculous, you know what I'm saying.
I'm just like, did I do it? You know, because it was just that compelling.
I very well know that he came and pulled out all the stops and probably even told the jury and everyone in the courtroom that it was a society's right to convict you that if they didn't, they were basically letting a criminal back on the streets. Because that's what he has did in every single closing argument, tried to get the public to take up arms for justice and convict an innocent person.
Yeah.
So, after after after conclusion of all that, you know, uh, you know, I looked at East juror and.
The jury foreman.
He looked at me and he winked, you know, and gave me like a you know, heads like a head nod, and I'm like, okay, maybe maybe they do believe, you know, And they went out, and uh, I think it was maybe like a day and a half. When they came back in, no one looked at me.
You know.
It wasn't the same as when they went out. So my heart immediately fell, you know, into my stomach, and I'm just like, this is not gonna be good.
But I still was holding on this a little bit of hope.
So the judge you know, read off his spell and then uh, you know, he asked for a verdict and they came back and they read a first degree and it was it was not guilty.
So I was excited. I'm like, okay, all right, maybe this is you know, I'm like okay. I had hope.
Then when they said second degree and they said.
So hm hm now they said they said guilty, and you know, I was just like, you know how, how you know how? And then they read off the other charges murdering. You know, I just I didn't understand. And I turned around. I looked at my mother, and my mother's face was just like I can still see it so clear. I mean, she was just like she was devastated. You know. My father he was just sitting there, you know, but my mom's face as well.
I'll never forget. So after that, I just did I heard nothing else. I remember my knees buckled a little bit and I fell down a little bit, and and they asked me if I had anything to say, and I told her judge, they got it wrong. I said, you know, this is this is wrong. That said, you know, I said, I've never lied, you know about my innocence, you know, and I read it all down and you know he had but he never even didn't hear nothing.
I said. That was a rap.
I guarantee.
I listen to audience.
If you go and look at everybody trial transcripts who's been on wrong for conviction, you will see that when they sentenced us, that we stood before that judge and we sat once again, you're getting it wrong. We're innocent, we didn't do it, we don't belong here, so and so forth. Talk to me Chester about your after all the years go by, what was your lowest point being incarcerated upstate? And then we'll get to what your highest
point was. But I want the audience to know what was your lowest point in prison for something you didn't do.
There were many low low points. I think the entire twenty eight year was a low point. But I think my lowest point was, uh, I was losing my mom, you know, because she had been my strongest advocate, my my biggest supporter, and she was like everything everything to me. And when you lose a loved one, it's it's gonna
be tough, really in prison or not. But being in prison, you know, it's I think it's even harder because, like I said, you know, this is the one person I would I would get anything for my life, you know, and did everything for me. And to go back into that block and not be able to cry and shed a tear and show this weakness, you know, it was it was it.
Was hard, right, you can't do that in prison, right, you couldn't even grieve.
My mom had always told me, you know, I talked my mom every day. If there's a way to will there was a way to go.
On that phone.
I got on the phone and I called her every day and she always told me every day at the end of the phone called do not lose yourself. And she told me that every single phone call, do not lose yourself. And uh, you know, and then begin I didn't know that you know what that meant. But as time went on, I said, okay, just be the man and I raised you to be, and uh, you know that's all I tried to do. Man, you know, I said, these people have smeared my name. They've taken my freedom.
I said, you know, I'm going to show them that they're wrong, you know. So I just tried to move by my actions and carry myself in a way that would speak louder than my voice could speak.
Did you take any classes? Did you did you immerse yourself in the law? Did you did you have any hobbies to make the time go by while you were fighting to prove your innocence?
You know, I definitely immersed myself into the law. I read a lot of books, did a lot of working out.
You know.
Matter of fact, I worked out more and probably than than I did eating. I was I was actually the strongest guy in the prison.
You know.
I had broken so many different records you just trying to take because I was that anger was being directed towards these weights. So I was benching like four fifty five and it's crazy, you know, but what do you mention that?
What do you mention now?
Maybe one thirty five? You know.
Yeah, But it was all about just trying to stay you know, stay sharp the mind and physically. You know, I said, this is going to be a long fight, so I wanted to, you know, keep my wits about me and my physical health. So I did everything I could to keep both sharp.
So kind of summarize what happened in these twenty five years, you know, because there were pills based on recantations by Deirdre Jones and Andre Dawkins, and all of those are pills were denied. So I know that it had to be such a deabilitating process for you and were looking bleak, but you were holding on to hope. Tell me about when you knew that the ebbs of life were turning in your favor. Talk to me a little bit about that, chester about when things start to turn in your favor.
I'm gon say, maybe my twenty fourth my twenty fifth year, maybe things I think started to you know, there's more talk, and I think my case was on the front page of the Daily News and all the staff had it and inmates had it, and I'm like, maybe there's you know, maybe things are starting to move.
And so this is right around the time when Larry Krasner gets elected. This was a huge day for people in Philadelphia because we had never had a district attorney speak loudly and clearly about innocent people being in prison and trying to right those wrongs. And one of the most important things he did was he hired Patricia Cummins
to have the conviction integrity. She becomes his number one. So, Alan, tell me about when that process took place, in the petition that you wrote and got in front of Patricia Cummins, and how all that came to be.
I had our petition drawn up, she comes in. I think I walked over there and handed it to her the day after she started. So she called me about two weeks later and said, you know, I read your letter. We're very interested in this case. We're definitely going to take this up, and I've ordered the homicide file for you to review, which that came in about a month later. And then we found that other evidence in the homicide file. I opened the file and what was, without a question,
like the Perry Mason moment of my life. I pull a folder out. The first thing is pull this folder out. It's a memo from a police officer who manned the tip line the night of the crime. They received an anonymous tip essentially identifying Denise Combs as the driver of the getaway cars. I said in the beginning, there were three rented Chevy Blazers with the same tag roughly the same tag, but Denise in rent was the name on the rental agreement for the one of the other vehicles.
And you know, we believed she was involved. We spent a long time looking for her. Not that it was not that easy to find her, believe it or not. But when we did, she was very welcoming and we spoke to her many on numerous occasions. I mean, she never admitted involvement in the case, but she said a lot of things that were kind of astonishing. Actually, in one of the interviews, she said, I once out of thirty eight we had to get rid of because there was a quote unquote body on it, and of course
thirty eight was used in this case. That was the gun used in this case. And she says this to us, and that memo with the information the anonymous tip identifying her gets buried in the homicide file never turned over.
So Alan, bring me to the day when you know that Chester is going to be released. Tell me how you felt, Tell me how his family felt. Tell me were you able to reach out to Chester and let him know that she was coming to get.
We go to this hearing the judge ordered this hearing. We didn't know she was going to release Chester that day. We just thought she had some questions. And she asked us a handful of question, says well, I want to release him today.
Can you give me an order?
And Patricia comings, you know, the DA and I look at each other like yeah. We sit down and we write a hand rated order, you know, give it to the judge and she signs it and faxes it up to the prison. And then it was like we all jump in our cars. I called Chester's family. We all jump in our cars and we're like, you know, it was like the amazing race we're trying to get who's going to get to the prison first.
You know, that's an incredible story, that's an incredible moment for you as an attorney, and I just want to say thank you for being a vessel that helped reunite Chester with his family. What you did was no, no short of being heroic. Chester, How did you feel about that? When Alan is telling you, even before you got released, how did you feel about that?
It wasn't really until I got across that bridge that you know, my shoulders straightened up a little bit, because you know, as you already know, Jimmy, you know what I mean. I'm twenty eight years in and you know, I hear the talk and I hear all the rumblings, but at the same time, it's like, I'm still here. You know that that morning when they called me back to the block and uh, the counselor called me upstairs,
she says, I need you to pack your stuff. You're gonna be going home tomorrow morning.
You know. I thought she's playing.
So I get over there and she says, uh, uh the judge is called and uh, they're releasing you today. So I'm just like how, you know how, and she's like, I don't know, but you're going home, you know. And it's just like, you know, you don't you don't you know your hope, but you don't, you know, you don't believe. It's just you know what I mean. So it was
just everything. I'm just so surreal, you know. And before I can get back to my cell, which is on the other side of the block, the whole jail had already already found out, and I had white shirts, captains, sergeants, you know, everybody coming to myself congratulate me.
And I didn't have it. I didn't have an opportunity to really process it, you know. So now the captain of security, he's telling me you have to get outside, you have to get out to the prison because now you're considered a civilian. I'm like, cat, I just been here twenty five years. Now you tell me I got to go. He's yeah, you got twenty minutes. So they gave me twenty minutes to prepare myself to leave a place where I've just spent majority of my life. I
just couldn't believe it. And then I get outside.
And my sister and my father and my uncle right there in the lobby, and it was just like you know, and I still couldn't believe it, you know, I said, man, you know.
And when we.
Finally got across the bridge and I got out the car, and I looked back at the prison, and that's when it hit me, like, you know, finally, you know, like you know, and what've so much about being and free just about I mean, that's the main thing. But them finally hearing my voice and believe in me, you know.
Right your dad, truth came out. I can tell you first hand. When you are in prison, all you want is for someone, anyone to see who you truly are as a human being, because you don't belong it. Chester. Tell me about your life now, and I hear you have an incredible friend that piles around which you tell me about that a little bit.
Yeah, I was. I was.
I was very fortunate, you know. Prior to being released, I worked in activities department at retreat and they had a dog program where they were we would get dogs from Lazerne County SPCA and they would bring dogs in inmates to train and we had a six month old puppy.
It was a puggle, very tiny, very tiny. Like I said, I watched this dog for for months, you know what I mean, time she was there and uh, you know, once things started pregnant about my case, the activities managers Todd Quebeca, he was actually in charge of the dog program anyway. He says, if things ever work out for you, I want you to take one of these dogs. I think you should take Buttons. The dog's name was Buttons at the time. So I was like, nah, I said, if I get out, the last thing I want to
do is take care of a dog. You know, I'm you know, that's the last thing I'm trying to do so you know. Uh that that day came and I found I was leaving. I was like, he said, you need to take this dog. And I was like all right, And I came brought her home and we renamed her, uh Journey, and uh, she's upstairs right now, and I and I got and I gotta say this, man, you know, you know, God does things.
You know, just it's just it's just the way things happen.
Man, It's just you know, this dog really, like I think, saved my life because it's been rough out here, you know for me, and you know, so you know, just having her and knowing what we came through and we'll be you know, where we're at now.
It's just been a you.
Know, saving grace for me. And as far as where I'm at now, you know, you know, the main people know about the settlement. You know that was that occurred. You know, that brought on a whole nother layer to my life. A lot of difficulties with that because like they say, more money brings more problems and uh, and that is the truest statement I think I've ever heard in my life. I'm not complaining about my life because you know, like I said, where we came through and
we had to overcome to where we are now. You know, I just I take it all in stride and I'm grateful for it all. But at the same time, man, it's it ain't as easy as people may think, you know, going through all that, and then they think because they give you the money that life is good now, and uh, you know, you know, it's just it's a lot to process.
You and I, you know, uh talk about these things often, and I know you have a great deal of wisdom. I want to know what you think I were wrong for conviction audience can do to help people like us and stop this from happening to other people.
Well, and only the first thing that comes to mind is getting out to vote. You know, these politicians that are you know, that have been there in these uh uh forever with these old school mentality uh, you know, people who don't believe in justice. I mean, I don't understand, you know, I have a hard time understanding how you know people are so hard on line Christ. No one's perfect. We know that already, you know, but you know, just seeing a few of the things that he's done in
terms of trying to right the wrongs. You know, you know innocence product. You know it's one thing you know to get involved with innocince product. But there's only so much we can do there.
And Alan, do you have anything to add.
I'll say the same thing Chester just said. Vote and I'll tell you we did everything. We got recantations, I got news stories, we found the other witness. I found everything. Did you know what made a difference? Larry Krasner got elected and was willing to look at the evidence in a different way. Politics is what made the difference, Jimmy, you and Chester are free because of politics and the old way of looking at things doing things. The old way of running a DA's or prosecutor's office was not
going to ever change any of this. The only way things are going to change is to is the is the support and promotion of progressive prosecution. Period.
So, Chester, we have something on wrongful conviction called closing arguments. So I'm going to hand this mic off to you, and I want you to speak from your heart and tell a wrongful conviction audience how you feel and what you think.
Well, I mean, if I say anything, I was just like, it's just about bringing awareness to uh wrongful convictions. You know, prior to you know, me entering prison.
And and and and.
Seeing it firsthand, you know, I never would have thought these things are possible. You know, you look on TV and see people being arrested, and you know, they paint this picture of guilt before innocence. And you know, I just want people to be aware that before we jump to conclusions and and you know, just to listen and to the facts and and learn more about these types of things. You know, in regards to the law itself, these people have committed crimes, you know, these people that
allow these things to happen. Holding people accountable. To me, it's more than anything. And these police officers that stole my life, your life, just just make it, I say, bringing awareness to these types of things. And you know, I thank you guys for having me and Allen here today. Thank you Jimmy. You know, you know I got a lot of love for you. You know, whatever I can do to help you, man, I'm always gonna be there for you as well, you know, So I just thank you' all for having.
Us, thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'm your guest host, Jimmy Dennis. I like to thank our executive producers Jason Flumm and Kevin Waters. The senior producer for this episode is Jackie Pauley and our producers are Lilah Robinson and Jeff Clydborne edit is Roxandra Guidy. The music in this production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer
Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good.
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Platforms, you can find me on Facebook as Jimmy Dennis on Instagram at Jimmy Dennis Music. I'm also an R and B singer songwriter and you can find all my music on iTunes.
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Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one.
Next week, on the guest hosted episodes of Wrong Conviction, Pulitzer Prize winning author Gilbert King will interview Robert Dubois about being sentenced to die by electrocution for a crime he didn't commit. Gilbert is the host of Lava for Good's newest documentary podcast, Bone Valley, which follows the story of Leo Schofield, a man wrongfully convicted for the murder of his wife near Tampa, Florida. Leo is currently incarcerated at Florida State Prison, the same prison where Robert Dua
was held for twenty eight long years. In this fascinating interview, Gilbert will talk to Robert about the shoddy police work and junk science that landed Robert on death row. Listen next Monday in the Wrongful Conviction podcast Feed