Back in the spring of twenty twenty one, Terrence Rice's case was stagnating before the Brooklyn Conviction Review Unit, and he reached out to us at Wrongful Conviction to see if he could create some pressure from the outside. The interview was ready for release in October twenty twenty one, when his legal team requested that we temporarily shelved the episode as they were at a critical juncture in negotiations with Brooklyn DA Eric Gonzalez. After nearly a year, the
interview has finally been cleared for release. Shortly after midnight on October ninth, nineteen ninety, Terrence Rice finished a payphone call outdoors at the Tilden Housing Projects in Brownsville, Brooklyn, while using the walkway on the rear side of a neighboring building to return home. A gun battle was taking place inside and in front of that building, involving the occupants of Apartment one f Police were already in the area and began arresting those fleeing the shooting through the
back door. Terrence was swept up in the chaos with three other men. While two of the three of all always maintained that Terrence was not in Apartment one F. The third man, Tyrone Flowers, allegedly was beaten into giving
a false statement supporting an uncorroborated police narrative. This narrative alleged that, separate from a well documented gun battle inside it in front of the building, that Terrence allegedly fired four or five shots at police officers out of the back window of Apartment one F, to which officers claimed to have returned fire, and that Terrence allegedly climbed out of that window totally unscathed before his arrest on the walkway.
Tyrone Flowers denied the validity of his alleged statement at trial, but that same statement was used to rebut his denials, even though there were no spent shell casings, bullets, broken glass, or any marks on the building to corroborate this version of events. The three officers testimonies went unchallenged at trial, and Terrence was sentenced to three consecutive life terms for a crime that never even happened. This is wrongful conviction.
Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I'm your host, Jason Flahman. Today we have a man that I'm going to introduce to you from behind bars where he remains after thirty one years for a crime that never even happened, with evidence that never existed, and with so many lies and misconduct and competence thrown into this toxic mix that you're literally going to go FLAWM, you're crazy. This can't be true,
but it is true. So, without further ado, Terrence Rice, I've been wanting to share your story for a long long time now, and I'm I mean sorry, he's not as strong enough word, but I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances. But I'm really happy that you're here to share this unbelievable tale.
Yes, thanks for having me. I highly appreciate you, not just for my case, but for all the cases that you're publicized, because you're literally giving a voice to the voiceless. And I just want you to know that my words is insufficient to show and express my appreciation.
Well, listen, I don't even feel like I have an option here. I mean, I have to tell these stories. So first of all, let's go back to before all of this happened. Tell us about what life was like for you growing up in Brownsville, Brooklyn.
Okay, growing up in until the houses in Brownsville, Brooklyn. It's just like most inner city neighborhoods where it's relatively poor and people just living their life trying to do the best things that they could do. Like far too many other residents of the neighborhood, I've had trouble with the law, you know, minus stuff, juvenile things like that.
The thing is, when you're young and you're running the street and you're getting yourself into things that you don't realize the impact that it's going to have later, you make bad decisions. So leading up until my arrest for this case, I just lived a normal life. I lived with a female who was helping me get on my feet. I had a parole to help me get a job
with a program that they call Wildcat. I took all the Civil Service exam, and one of the places that called me back with the New York City Department of Sanitation. I actually went passed the test schedule for physical and everything. The only reason why I'm not retiring as the New York City Sanitation worker now is because I was wrawully arrested, falsely convicted, and I've been.
Here ever since, and I'm just going to go back now to give our audience a little context. So this was nineteen ninety in Brownsville, Brooklyn. Both crime and police misconduct were out of control. It's also important to note that at this time cell phones were really rare, so there was no unlimited talking text or anything like that. Landline phone bills, by the way, could get really expensive. So it's not a stretch to think that a guy living in public housing would be using a payphone booth
on the regular. And if you remember, these phone booths used to be ubiquitous, right, they were all over the city. Now back to the day question. It's October ninth, nineteen ninety,
just after midnight twelve ten am. Police were in the area already when they responded to gunshots at three thirty Dumont Avenue that were happening between a group in the hallway outside of Apartment one F and the guys within that apartment who later became Terrence's co defendants, of course, I'm talking about Tyrone Flowers and Daryl Smith, as well
as Randy Hampton, who ended up never being indicted. Now, Terrence, you lived in the adjacent building three point forty Dumont, which was about two hundred feet away, right, and there was a little courtyard in between the buildings. So take us back before this gun battle happened, when you were making your usual phone call that you made to your girlfriend.
Okay, So my significant other, she worked a job on Broadway Video and the ship that she worked was from four to twelve, So my lifestyle was if we were actually together or I wasn't going to pick her up from work, we were routinely call on the phone. We had phone booths located in the back of my building. So I completed the call and on my way back to my building, it was shot fired inside of three
thirty Do my avenue. Now I lived three forty. Do my avenue, So as I'm approaching the rear of my building, the officers had to already be in the area because they responded to that. Then some guys ran out of three thirty do my avenue, the cross do my avenue, and that melee wanted the officer to see me and pointed his gun at me and told me to freeze, get down on my knees, and basically walk towards him on my knees. So that's what I did.
So I feel like I'm missing a connection here, So it just was that you just happened to be on the street and they were just like, let's just grab this guy.
I think that anybody that would have been out there that night, they would have at least they' sure, okay, this is not somebody that got anything to do with that shooting that's going on. So that's how that happened.
So is this literally just wrong place, wrong time, That's really all it is.
Exactly exactly. I got handcuffed, they grabbed somebody else that they said came out of the art of the building, and two other guys was found inside of the department in three point thirty du Mont Avenue, Department one F. So those guys claimed that they was watching a football game and shots came through the door. Some guys from inside the apartment fire out, the police robbed, and when the police told them to come in so they could
secure it erea, they came out. So it was a total of four of us that was arrested.
Right, So, Tyrone Flowers and Darryl Smith were arrested from inside apartment one F, and then Randy Hampton was arrested
outside and later ended up never being indicted. Though Tyrone and Darryl however, were indicted along with you, and the story of the shooting inside of three point thirty two month was that the guys inside of Apartment one F had been in a dispute with another group about a girl earlier that same day, and in response, the other party to that dispute came and shot through the door of Apartment one F from the hallway, and the guys inside one F then returned fire as the other group
retreated from the doorway of Apartment one F, the shooting moved from there to the front area of the building. The other party to this shooting was never found, arrested or anything, but that gun battle inside and in front of three thirty Dumont was well documented. I'm talking about spent shells and bullets, bullet marks and bullet holes on the walls and doors, and later ballistic evidence as well.
So they've got these other guys who were involved to some degree, whatever degree, with the shooting inside and in front of three thirty Dumont, and you, who was just on the walkway in the back of the building without a weapon. All four of you were brought down to the precinct. I mean, did you think you had anything to really are you about it at that time.
At that time, I'm still thinking of right. Once y'all realized I'm on a walkway alongside my building, I'm out of it. Unfortunately, the officers decided to fabricate a story. They said that I was shooting out of the window towards Dumont Avenue when they approached the rear of the billion when they announced themselves, I allegedly turned around and
shot four or five times in their direction. They're saying that they shot back at this window, and I came out of the window and they just arrested me.
But unlike the other gun battle through the front door of Apartment one AFF, there are no shell casings or bullets, no bullet marks or bullet holes, no broken glass from the alleged return fire from police officers, nothing, in other words, to corroborate this version of events. But this is three police officers telling the story.
They charged me, actually with tempted to murder three police officers and possession of weapons weapons that they found inside of a closet inside the apartment one F three to thirty do my Avenue. I hired an attorney immediately after being arrested. He hired an investigator named is Robert Ladie. Robert Ladee went to basically canvass the area. He came back with approximately five witnesses at the time, and they all said I had nothing to do with this crime.
And then he wound up interviewing my Coda finis one of the gods that they snatched up and the other two that was found inside the apartment, and these gods gave statements saying, listen, we've seeing this guy around the neighborhood. You know he was nowhere in this apartment.
But nevertheless, three officers identified you as a shooter. And then Tyrone Flowers alleged that he was beaten into giving a video statement supporting their version of events that you fired either a revolver or a shotgun. And that's even somebody who knows very little boy guns like myself knows
that's a big discrepancy there. That you supposedly fired out of the window of apartment one f on the backside of the building for or five times at the police and then climbed out of that same window where you were arrested when you got to the ground level unharmed, right, but again, no bullets or shells, no broken glass, no bullet holes or bullet marks. I mean, you can't have
a shootout and then magically everything just disappears. Right, that the physical evidence here doesn't support their version of events for the simple reason that it was all just made up. And No, it was standard protocol back then to test people's hands for gunshot residue. Right, did they test your hands?
Nope, they didn't do that. They didn't do that at all. They didn't test that window for anything. They didn't test it for no finger plants.
Nothing, No, And yeah, why would they when they knew that the results would have just disproved the story that they were trying to tell. Right, you don't have to be Colombo to figure this out. And I think it's important to note that if you had done what they claimed that you did, if you were actually crazy enough to shoot at the police, you and that building would have been basically Swiss cheese by the end of that interaction, but instead not a scratch exactly.
Everybody knows that. Everybody listener knows that at our pointed a time in the middle of the night, at the height of the crack error in New York City, when all of that violence was at its height, I would have went straight to the moor.
This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making a positive difference in the lives of its employees and in the communities where we work and live. In light of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and other support to underrepresented communities and individuals.
So when we was in a precat and they separated all of us, one of the CODA finishs was a seventeen year o kid named Tyrone Flowers. He said they beat him into making a confession, decentsionally saying that everybody was in the apartment. Somebody shot through the apartment. The officers asked him, was not in the apartment and he was like yes. They asked him, was anybody shooting out of the window with the shot done? Was anybody shooting
out of the window where he was like yes. So when he made this confession, he told us he did that, and he said, listen, I'm willing to give a statement saying that they beat me up in the pre said they made make the statement, so other two gods, they said,
I'm not in the apartment. Prior to trial, immediately after receiving the statements, my lawyer filed what you call the severage motion, and this motion is designed to have me separate trial from the co defendents so that we would be able to enjoy exculpatory testimonial saying that I'm innocent.
Right, because both Randy Hampton and Darryl Smith never waivered that you weren't even in the apartment, let alone had anyone fired anything out the window at the police. So add those two testimonies to Tyrone's claim of being beaten into giving that video statement, and that should have done the job. But that's, of course not how things panned out.
During the proceedings prior to trial, I had a hearing where my lawyer was not present. My lawyer filed the affidavit with court saying that he was on trial in my hand and didn't know when the trial would be concluded. Irrespectful of that position, and I was not represented. The judge did not a motion that he had before the court for me to have a separate trial from these guys so that at the trial they could come and testify on my behalf, even if they didn't want to
testify on their own behalf at their own trial. So now, oh, I go to trial. We went through a long colloquy in court about why you're not giving me the separate trial, and the judge said to my lawyer, you was here during a court date that I examined him, and he said nothing about testifying that. My lawyer was like, your honor, that never happened. I was never president. I was on
trial in Manhattan, New York County. So they went back and forth, and the clerk ultimately identified to the judge listen, he was not here. So my lawyer said, this is the first time I'm in court with all parties President. I'm telling you I have exonerating statements from them. I intend to call them. And the judge still denied the motion and refused allowed him to testify. So they granted the severance with the guy that made the videotape statement.
My position is that you granted that because you were able to impeach him because he made a prior statement
saying something contrary to that the other they denied. The severance stayed put Tyrone Flowers on the stand, and Tyrone Flowers was basically up there hours whether or not what he said on a video was true or what he was saying today, meaning the time I was on trial, he had a whole bunch of contradictions because, like I said, on a stand, he's saying they was beating them up in the precinct, and he was basically saying what the
officers want him to say in the video statement. The officers asked him with that in the apartment and he was like yes. They asked him, was anybody shooting out of the window. He was like yes. My position with that was the same thing as with the officers. And what he's saying is true, where's the evidence of that at right?
It always comes back to the fact that this version of events is just words. Right, even though these words were repeated by three police officers as well as allegedly and this they say allegedly, but it's very credible, especially in that era, that they were beaten out of Tyrone Flowers. This narrative runs counter to all the physical evidence. While your versus events is supported by the physical evidence as
well as by Randy Hampton and Darryl Smith. Unfortunately for you, however, Darryl, as your co defendant, was not allowed to testify, and Randy was never called by your lawyer. But what about all the other alibi witnesses that your investigator actually interviewed.
One witness identified me by the phone of miss Brunton. Another witness lived in three thirty through mont Avenue and was like, I see who was in that, But he was not there, He was not involved in that. So these witnesses my lawyer never put on a stand.
This is just straight crazy. I mean, these other witnesses were not presented your severance motion. Denial kept the jury from hearing from Darryl Smith about your innocence, and then with Tyrone's video statement impeaching what he was coming forward with on the stand, this was not looking good for you. Between the prosecution's tactics and the failures of your attorney, it was basically a systematic removal of any evidence in your defense.
So the people put the case on and it was essentially the testimony of the officers. Once they got the testimony from them, they went through the technical stuff and marshooting. A whole bunch of evidence to establish that it was a shootout between whoever was in that apartment and whoever shot through that apartment door. They had pictures of the bullet hole through the door. They had bullet markers all
in the hallway. They had spin shehells. Some of them matched weapons that they found inside the apartment in the closet, and some of them didn't. I guess those were guys that shot in and they would never arrested. Every single thing that they testified about with respects to these two groups of people shooting at each other, they had all of the physical evidence for that, but there was not one single shred of evidence demonstrating that anything happened between
anybody at any window and a police officer. Now, one of the officers actually testified that he'd seen the shotgun and the shotgun was being fired, and this happened before the revolver. Two of them said they didn't see a shotgun. Not one single shotgun spent shell was recovered when they recovered all of this other stuff. So evidence with respects to why I'm convicted is non existence outside of the testimony by these three officers you.
Know, And it's striking to me that they didn't even bother to coordinate their stories. If I had to guess, they must have thought, well, we're gonna convict this guy regardless, So why are we even going to waste time trying to sit around and make sure our stories match. They didn't even bother to do that. So you have conflicting testimony, all of which is nonsensical because it didn't match any of the facts. You have a total lack of evidence.
It sounds like, I mean, it's a show trial. When the jury went out, did you still feel like you had a hope in hell of being acquitted.
It's not like I had a jury that was made up of people that understand. It's a difference in the way police is being conducted a lot of stuff that people is outraged about now. It's stuff that was unfortunately normal for me and God that grew up with me. See back then they didn't have campus, But for us, it was like, it's nothing for the police to pull up, guns drawn, get down, get on a car, don't move. That's regular stuff for us. So everybody don't have that view.
So when a person here, somebody in authority that took the oath to uphold the law. Why would these guys break that, Why would they get together and say that, why would you make that up? So these juries, they don't know that part of it. But to answer your question directly, yes, I really thought that I had a shot, because who is going to believe that they're going to be evicted for something, Not that you got the wrong person or any It never even happened. It never happened.
It's just an unbelievable indictment of our system in general. I mean the fact that you're there now. Jesus Christ. You've been in prison eight year years longer than you were alive outside of prison. So this is insanity for a crime that never happened. I'm gonna say it again and again and again. A crime that never happened, in which no one was hurt, and no one was touched, and no one was harmed in any conceivable way, not
even their feelings were hurt. So okay, So the moment that you were convicted, if you could take us back to that must have been the worst moment of your life.
On October sixteenth, nineteen ninety one, a go before the citizen Judge and a citizen judge basically said that I am going to run twenty five years to life since consecutively, which total seventy five years to life, because I do not want any one of these offers to feel like I'm punishing you all. At the same time, she sentence in me like I was a serial killer. So when I got sense to that, they immediately shackled me up, wrote me on the bus, and I was shipped to Attica.
At the time I was convicted, if somebody voted the capitated three officers in town Square, they will not have been able to receive another day more than what I'm saying to very good live in New York State Twitter sales since October ninth, nineteen ninety I'm in green Haven Correction Facility that's in Stormville, New York, you know, approximately an hour outside of the city, outside of the Bronx,
and I exercise. I run marathons, I run, and I also do mental exercises met to play in So I do that I take that time out for myself to get sprtually a line so that I will be able to prepare myself for the visions of the day and all of this stuff that I got to go through. You can only imagine this the negativity and the environment coming from both sides of the fence. But I have a very very strong support system, yourself included Daryl Hamilton. Unbelievable.
This guy spent a bunch of time in prison before being exonerated. Since the day stepped out, this is the type of work he've been doing. So I'm encouraged by that. I have a wife whom I've been married to for more than quarter of a century. People don't understand how we do that because they can't stay together that long out there, but she's definitely a rock and the kids, and so it's a combination of these things. Of course, you have moments that are harder than other moments. I
love mut I love to read. I'm always reading, and aside from frighting my case, I helped a lot of other guys. I made sure I got a legal research certificate so I could work in Lord Library. I did the IOC, which is basically an inmate ls On committee where I represent population to the administration, bring the Conservative
administration back to the population. I do youth empowerment classes, being involved in a bunch of different organizations, and everything that I felt was significant, just trying to be the best person I could be.
Well, Terence, all I can say is you have all my respect. And so now with your post conviction litigation, so much of this starts with the ineffective representation by your trial attorney.
Right ineffective assistance a counsel. Of course, I raised that on a pill. They didn't even acknowledge that I had also the severge issue and how it was not constitutional sound for them to deny the severage motion for my codes Flinders. I have been in Brooklyn District Attorney's conviction review you it for over six years now, and they
supposed to be investigating this rawful conviction. The district attorney, one of the investigators, did interview the girl and she verified where she worked and that I would call every day and this was our lifestyle, but basically dismissed that as if that has nothing to do because you not an eye witness of the crime. I had an extensive meeting with one of the sisters the district attorneys. I explained to her. I said, listen, look how ridiculous the
story is. If the officers, all three of them, they all talking about I'm not trying to scare them, I'm trying to murder them. At what time when I came out of this window actually towards y'all, did y'all decide I was no longer a threat and nobody shot at nothing. After the meeting, when I called my attorney, said the digital attorney said that your story has problems because you've told them during the meeting that the officers seeing you on the walkway, made you get down on your knees
and walk towards them, and we had pictures. And if there's nothing wrong with the bottom of Terrence's pants from the knees down to his foot, and if what he said was true, that it would have been something dirt or something on his knee. So I couldn't believe they said that. So what I did was I called my wife and acted, did she have a copy of my trial transfrist really available? She said absolutely. I said, go
to officers Mackie testimony. He said that when he noticed me, he made me get down on my knees, put my hands behind my back, and walked towards him. I said, make a copy of that. Send that to the District Attorney's office. They sent it to the district Attorney's office. We didn't hear nothing back on that. So the next communication, my attorney said, Terrence, the district attorney is saying that during the meeting, you told them that you didn't know
miss Brunton at the time you got arrested. You found out a bob when she became a witness. But the record shows that this is who you called from the precinct. I said, you gotta be kidding me. He said, no, this is what they're telling me. So I pulled out the police report from the phone call that I made. The phone call that I made was to the house I was living at three point forty do my avenue and to the females who I call every night. Send that to them. When they sent that to the district
Attorney's office, they said, oh, we made a mistake. Somebody wrote something in and we thought that they wrote Brunching, but it really was somebody named Carr. So I was like, all right, And it just been a back and forth.
And then and back and forth and went like that, squabbling over these trivial details while they ig Nord was glaringly obvious that this was a quote unquote crime that never even happened. That building would have been lit up like a freaking Christmas tree if Terrence had shot even once at those police officers. But that's simply not what happened.
So while the squabbling continued, it appeared that some headway had been made in negotiations, so Terrence's legal team requested that we shelve this interview until they had a chance to hammer out the terms of this release with the Brooklyn District Attorney Ericnzalie. And I'm happy to report that Terrence now joins us finally from outside the walls. So Terrence, welcome back to Ronful Conviction.
Thank you very much. I appreciate you guys having.
Me so Terrence. The moment that I finally heard that you were out, I mean I was so happy calling friends and family. Uh might call my colleagues here at Roneful Conviction. You know Connor, our producer, I think he this case has for some reason or other, this case has bothered him as much as any and I know he's been so invested in this, and so it's you know, it was a great call with him, and we're all
just so happy for you. So I can't imagine what this must be like for your family and of course your wife Michelle, who's been such a credible and steadfast supporter. Shout out to every one of them for their strength through this unbelievable or deal in nightmare.
Absolutely, so take us there.
What was it like to be finally reunited with him three decades on?
It was great.
The wife came up to the facilities, she was out there with a couple of family members when I was released, And from there we went out to City Isllen and had lunch because they were out there all morning and nobody got any sleep the night before, probably even before that, but definitely not the night before, because they were excited about coming to you know, be there to be in my support system.
I didn't actually feel.
Off the boat until I actually got home, you know, and I was able to be like, wow, I'm here now, you know. But because of the circumstances surrounding how I got released. As great as the feeling is, it was a.
Bittersweet, right because even though you're out, justice really still hasn't been served in this case, or if it's been served, it's been served cold. Because despite the obvious, which is that you are an innocent man, and again innocent of a crime that never even happened. You still remain sort of a prisoner in a much bigger prison, right as a par league. I mean, even recently you and I were going to get together and you know you weren't able to do it because of this, these crazy restrictions
that are put on you. Can you explain the deal that you got from the Brooklyn DA.
Okay?
So they were trying to get my lawyers to convince me to plead guilty and that they would reduce the sentence, and I was like, absolutely not. I will die on my feet before I live on my knees and say that I am guilty of something that even they know and it's obvious that never happened. And what they ultimately did was foul the motion to have my sentence that was running consecutively rank concurrent. So I had three twenty five to life sentence that was ran consecutively which total
to seventy five years to life. By them putting an emotion to run a concurrent that would effectively make my sentence to twenty five to life.
Right, and since you had already done thirty two years, that made you eligible for parole, but we know that the parle board doesn't usually let anyone out unless they admit guilt and show remorse, which you just said you weren't about to do. So how is it possible that you're here right now?
So the conditions for the sentence reduction would be that the District Attorney's office would not oppose the motion and
that they will actually support my release. But I had to sign a waiver for them not to be civilly liable and layman's turn so that the viewers can understand clearly they wanted to be relieved of any possibility of me swing once I eventually be exonerated or have this illegal sentence vacated, which was ridiculous to me because first and foremost, just by you putting that on the table indicatese that you know I have no business being here
and that you expect me to be exonerated. Because if you had an ironclad case and you believe that I was really guilty, how would a guilty person be able to suit anybody for anything. So this, for me is an indication that you know, eventually this man is going to be exonerated. We just don't want to compensate him for them thirty two years he served.
Yeah, I remember you explaining this possibility me a few months back while you were still awaiting your hearing, and I'm still justice pissed off that your release couldn't have just been allowed by some normal legal channels rather than this deal that feels like well, like you said, bittersweet.
I was led to believe that the judge would not sentence me if I don't sign that. Ultimately, I signed it because I said, at least it's not nowhere near in a mission of guilt. It's just, you know, monetary conversation and overcoming a civil law is much easier than trying to overcome an admission of guilt for something that I didn't do, you know, And I wanted to come home with my family. So I signed it, and they did what they said they were going to do, and
they supported my release. That was important because, as you asked me, and I pointed out to you, a parole board requires somebody to admit guilt.
Your courage to stand firm and your innocence is impressive and inspiring. You didn't let them get you to bend the knee, and that's just badass. If there's any silver lines in these proceedings, it's that at least that aspect
of it feels like justice. And I got to say, as a fella New Yorker, I'd be happy to do right by you, as I'm sure everyone who hears this story would, to give you the compensation that you deserve, which I mean no number would ever be enough to return to you what those three cops took from you with their lives, you know.
For me, I will say that compensation does not buy back the years that people lost. Right irrespective of whatever amount of money, I do think that it is deserving whatever is appropriate under the law, under the circumstances, because it gives a person an opportunity to live whatever golden years they have left at to going through the ordeal and put their family in a position, if they're not already in the position to live a better life generational wealth,
so to speak. To have to suffer trying to make ends meet after going through that ordeal is another matter. But personally, for me, it is the fact that I am found guilty for something that never happened.
How do I begin a healing process. It's nothing to do with money. Jason nothing to do with it.
Not for me.
It's getting to a place.
Where I'm exonerated, you know, I'm made whole and acknowledge that that ordeal should have never happened. I'm on parole right now. I feel like it's prison without the cell, without the bars. I gotta worry about getting pulled over, and as soon as my name is ran through the computer, I'm looked at immediately as somebody who tried to kill three New York City police officers and it never happened.
So I'm still living that ordeal. It is traumatic. My next milestone is sixty years old.
I have a parole officer. I have to be in by eight o'clock at night. I can't leave the house before eight o'clock in the morning.
You know.
So it's happy as I am to be able to hug my wife without bars being in between us, be with my family, eat good food and all of that.
It's still a bittersweet, and hopefully every Gonzales will see that this needs to be corrected and move towards that. However, whether it's with or without his support, I'll file my motion and I'll have the evidence where it's obvious that I should not have gone through the ordeal and let the system work. You know, again, it doesn't always work, and we need to.
Support you know, we'll be here to support you in any way we can. And I know you had a change dot org petition before you were released. Is that how our audience can show support?
Yes, absolutely, I want to let people know where we're at. I'll modify the change do or petition to reflect my current status. However, I still encourage the supporters that sign to share and encourage their supporters on whatever social media platforms or whatever platform they have, to encourage people to continue to sign and support because the ultimate goal is exoneration and that has not been met and all the support we can gather will be highly appreciated.
Well, we'll have that length in the episode Bier for folks to scroll down and sign. And Eric has done a lot of good, but this time this is just bizarre and straight up wrong, and I'd like to encourage him to do the right thing. So please join me in signing that petition. And with that, we're now going to go to my favorite part of the show. It's called course closing arguments and terrence. If it's starry with you. I'd like to use the closing that you had recorded
while you were still in prison. It's a straight up appeal to the e Gunzales, and I think it still rings true today. Is that all right with you?
Absolutely? Because I believe that it's still relevant. But in closing this interview, I would like the listeners to ask themselves, if you do not believe that I am innocent, and you do not believe or foresee that eventually I will be victorious and exonerating myself, why would you be preoccupied with me signing a waiver for civil liability. A guilty person can't sue anybody for anything.
Well, as you guys know, I'm terrist right. You just heard my story and how I got wrong fully convicted, speaking directly to Erigan Zales having the opportunity to do so, Rikan Zalen. I read an article that you did in the Marshal Project from September twenty nineteen. It was by Tom Robin. In that article, you said that in nineteen ninety six, when you were just starting out as a junior prosecutor, your brother was killed. You was twenty seven years old at the time. You talked about how your
father never got over it. When the man convicted of shooting your brother came up for parole after serving ten years, your father opposed release. After two more years, the parole bore granted releasing. You said that when that process was over, knowing that the guy was punished and that your father didn't have to go to any more parole hearings, be able to sense a closure. I'm sorry for your loss. I lost the wife to gun violence. On March's thirtieth,
nineteen ninety four. My wife was shot in the head in the East New York session of Brooklyn by stray bullet. No one was ever arrested for her murder. So I understand that you also said that you believe in the letter of the law, and that is what the law allowed in your brother's case, and your family had moved on. On October nineth, nineteen ninety I was falsely arrested for a crime that never happened. So far, I have already served very close to three times that of which the
person served that killed your brother. In my case, no one suffered a scratch. Your office is well aware of the circumstances around in this case. Aside from the legal issues that clearly demonstrate I am wrongfully convicted. Your office, through their own investigation, is in possession of many statements from witnesses exonerating me. There is not one single thread of physical evidence against me. The rule of law that you said you believe in, it does not allow for
the continued imprisonment of innocent people. In the same article, you said that people who were convicted when they were twenty three years old or younger, your office will consider support for role for individuals who were twenty three years were younger at the time of samsons. I was twenty three years old. I am sentence the seventy five years in life. You talked about promoting trust in the priminal justice system. It is time for you to practice what
you preach. Everic Gonzales, if you are unsatisfied with the evidence that demonstrates that I'm wrong pre condicted and you need something to hang your hat on, why don't you hang your hat on your own words.
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Cliburn, and Kevin Wardis, with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in This production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at wrong Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava
for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow me on both TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason flam Ravel Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one