Back in the spring of Terence Rice's case was stagnating before the Brooklyn Conviction Review Unit, and he reached out to us at Wrongful Conviction to see if he could create some pressure from the outside. The interview was ready for release in October when his legal team requested that we temporarily shelved the episode as they were at a critical juncture in negotiations with Brooklyn DA Eric Gonzalez. After nearly a year, the interview has finally been cleared for release.
Shortly after midnight on October, Terence Rice finished a pay phone call outdoors at the Tilden Housing Projects in Brownsville, Brooklyn, while using the walkway on the rear side of a neighboring building to return home. A gun battle was taking place inside and in front of that building, involving the occupants of Apartment one F. Police were already in the area and began arresting those fleeing the shooting through the back door. Terence was swept up in the chaos with
three other men. While two of the three of always maintained that Terence was not in Apartment one F, the third man, Tyrone Flowers, allegedly was beaten into giving a
false statement supporting an uncorroborated police narrative. This narrative alleged that, separate from a well documented gun battle inside it in front of the building, that Terence allegedly fired four or five shots at police officers out of the back window of Apartment one f to which officers claimed to have returned fire, and that Terence allegedly climbed out of that
window totally unscathed before his arrest on the walkway. Tyrone Flowers denied the validity of his alleged statement at trial, but that same statement was used to rebut his denials, even though there were no spent shell casings, bullets, broken glass, or any marks on the building to corroborate this version of events. The three officers testimonies went unchallenged at trial, and Terence was sentenced to three consecutive life terms for
a crime that never even happened. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I'm your host, Jason Flaman. Today we have a man that I'm going to introduce to you from behind bars where he remains after thirty one years for a crime that never even happened. With evidence that never existed, and with so many lies and misconduct and competence thrown into this toxic mix that you're literally gonna go flam. You're crazy, this can't be true,
but it is true. So without further ado, Terence Rice, I've been wanting to share your story for a long long time now, and I'm I mean, sorry is not a strong enough for you. But I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances. But I'm really happy that you're here to share this unbelievable tale. Yes, thinks for having me. I highly appreciate you, not just for my case, but for all the cases that you publicize, because you're literally
giving a voice to the voiceless. And I just want you to know that my words is insufficient to show and express my appreciation. Well, listen, I don't even feel like I have an option here. I mean, I have to tell these stories. So first of all, let's go back before all of this happened. Tell us about what life was like for you growing up in Brownsville, Brooklyn. Okay,
growing up in until then houses in Brownsville, Brooklyn. It's just like most in the city neighborhoods where it's relatively poor and people just living their life trying to do the best things that they could do, Like far too many others residents of the neighborhood. I've had trouble with the lord. You know, Minu stuff, juve now, things like that.
The thing is when you're young and you running the street and you're getting yourself into things that you don't realize the impact that is going to have later, you make bad decisions. So leading up until my rest for this case, I just lived a normal life. I lived with a female who was helping me get on my feet. I had a parole to help me get a job
with a program that they called Wildcats. I took all the Civil Service exam, and one of these places that called me back with the New York City Department of Sanitation. I actually went past the test schedule for physical and everything. The only reason why I'm not retiring at the New York City Sanitation worker now is because i was growthfully arrested, falsely convicted, and I've been here ever since. And I'm just gonna go back now to give our audience a
little context. So this was Brownsville, Brooklyn. Both crime and police misconduct were out of control. It's also important to note that at this time cell phones were really rare, so there was no unlimited talking text or anything like that. Landline phone bills, by the way, it could get really expensive. So it's not a stretch to think that a guy living in public housing would be using a pay phone
booth on the regular. And if you remember, these phone booths used to be ubiquitous, right, there were all over the city. Now back to the day of the question, it's October nine, just after midnight twelve ten am. Police were in the area already when they responded the gunshots at three thirty Dumont Avenue that were happening between a group in the hallway outside of Apartment one F and the guys within that apartment who later became Terence's co defendant.
Of course, I'm talking about Tyroll and Flowers and Darryl Smith, as well as Randy Hampton, who ended up never being indicted. Now, Terence, you lived in the adjacent building three forty Dumont, which was about two feet away, right, and there was a little courtyard in between the buildings. So take us back before this gun battle happened, when you were making your
usual phone call that you made to your girlfriend. Okay, So my significant other, she worked a job on throw away video and the shift that she worked was from four to twelve. So my lifestyle was if we were actually together or I wasn't going to pick up from work, we were routinely called on the phone. We had phone
booths located in the back of my building. So I completed the court and on my way back to my building, it was shots fired inside of three thirty do my Avenue and I lived three forty do my Avenue, So as I'm approaching the rear of my building, the officers had to already be in the area because they responded to that. Then some gods ran out of three thirty
do my Avenue. Of course du my avenue, and that melee wanted the officers to see me and pointed his gun at me and told me to freeze, get down on my knees, and basically walked towards him on my knees. So that's what I did. So I feel like I'm missing a connection here. So it just was that you just happened to be on the street and they were just like, let's just grab this guy. I think that anybody that would have been out there that night, they
would have at least ain't sure. Okay, this is not somebody that got anything to do with that shooting that's going on, So that's how that happened. So is this literally just the wrong place, wrong time, that's really all
it is. Exactly exactly. I got handcuffed, they grabbed somebody else that they said came out of the ridd of the building, and two other guys were found inside of the department in three thirty Dumont Avenue, Department one F. So those guys claimed that they were watching a football game and shots came through the door. Some guys from inside the department fight out, the police robbed and when the police told him to come in so they could secure it everywhere, they came out. So it was a
total of four bus that was arrested. Right, So, Tyrone Flowers and Darryl Smith were arrested from inside apartment one F, and then Randy Hampton was arrested outside and later ended up never being indicted though Tyrone and Darryl, however, were
indicted along with you. And the story of the shooting inside of was that the guys inside of Apartment one F had been in a dispute with another group about a girl earlier that same day, and in response, the other party to that dispute came and shot through the door of Apartment one F from the hallway, and the guys inside one F then returned fire. As the other group retreated from the doorway of Apartment one F, the shooting moved from there to the front area of the building.
The other party to this shooting was never found, arrested or anything, but that gun battle inside and in front of three thirty Dumont was well documented. I'm talking about spent shells and bullets, bullet marks and bullet holes on the walls and doors, and later ballistic evidence as well.
So they've got these other guys who were involved to some degree, whatever degree, with the shooting inside and in front of three thirty Dumont, and you who was just on the walkway in the back of the building without a weapon. All four of you were brought down to the precinct. I mean, did you think you had anything to really worry about at that time? At that time, I'm still thinking of right, once y'all realize, I'm want to walk withay alongside my building I'm out of here. Unfortunately,
the officers decided the fabricate a story. They said that I was shooting out of the window towards Dumont Avenue when they approached the rear of the building when they announced themselves, allegedly turned around and shot four or five times in their direction. They're saying that they're shot back at this window, and I came out of the window
and they just arrested me. But unlike the other gun battle through the front door of apartment one after, there are no shell casings or bullets, no bullet marks or bullet holes, no broken glass from the alleged return fire from police officers. Nothing, in other words, to corroborate this version of events. But this is three police officers telling
the story. They charged me actually with tempted to murder the three police officers in possession of weapons weapons that they found inside of a closet inside the apartment one of a threety do Mon Avenue. I hired an attorney immediately after being arrested. He hired an investigator name is Robert l d. Robert Ludi went to basically canvas the area. He came back with approximately five witnesses at the time, and they all said, I've had nothing to do with
this crime. And then he wind up interviewing my code offenders, one of the guys that they snatched up and the other two that was found inside the department, and these gods gave statements saying, listen, we've seen this guy around the neighborhood. You know he was nowhere in this apartment. But nevertheless, three officers identified you as a shooter. And then Tyrone Flowers alleged that he was beaten into giving a video statement supporting their version of events that you
fired either a revolver or a shotgun. And that's even somebody who knows very little bout guns like myself knows, that's a big discrepancy there. That you supposedly fired out of the window of Apartment one F on the back side of the building four or five times at the police and then climbed out of that same window where you were arrested when you got to the ground level unharmed. Right, But again, no bullets or shells, no broken glass, no
bullet holes or bullet marks. I mean, you can't have a shootout and then magically everything just disappears right, The physical evidence here doesn't support their version of events for the simple reason that it was all just made up. And no, it was standard protocol back then to test people's hands for gunshot residue. Right, did they test your hands? Nope, they didn't do that. They didn't do that at all.
They didn't test that window for anything. They didn't test it for no finger plants, nothing, no, And yeah, why would they when they knew that the results would have just disproved the story that they were trying to tell. Right, you don't have to be Colombo to figure this out.
And I think it's important to note that if you had done what they claimed that you did, if you were actually crazy enough to shoot at the police, you and that building would have been basically Swiss cheese by the end of that interaction, but instead not a scratch exactly. Everybody knows that, everybody listening knows that at our pointed the time, in the middle of the night, at the high of the crack rror in New York City, when all of that violence was at its height, I would
have went straight to the more. This episode is underwritten by a i G, a leading global insurance company. A i G is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making a positive difference in the lives of its employees and in the communities where we work and live. In light of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and in recognition of a i g s commitment to criminal and social justice reform, the a i G Pro Bono Program provides free legal services and other support to
underrepresented communities and individuals. So when we were in the present and they separated all of us, one of the Corona finis was a seventeen year o kid named Tyrone Floud. He said they beat him into making a confession, essentially saying that everybody was in the apartment. Somebody shot through the apartment. The officers asked him, were that an apartment and he was like yes. They asked him, was anybody shooting out of the window would have shot done when
anybody shooting out of the window with it? He was like yes. So when he made this confession, he told us he did that, and he said, listen, I'm willing to give a statement saying that they beat me up to the police said they may be make a statement to other two gods. They said, I'm not in the
apartment prior to trial. Immediately after receiving the statements, my lawyer fould what you call the severance motion, and this motion is designed have me separate trial from the co defendant so that we will be able to enjoy exculpatory testimony saying that I'm innocent, right because both Randy Hampton and Darryl Smith never wavered that you weren't even in the apartment, let alone had anyone fired anything out the
window at the police. So add those two testimonies to Tyrone's claim of being beaten into giving that video statement, and that should have done the job. But that's, of course not how things panned out. During the proceedings prior to trial, I had a hearing where my lawyer was not president. My lawyer fouled the after David with court saying that he was going to trial in my hand
and didn't know when the trial would be concluded. Irrespected with that position, and I was not represented the judge that not a motion that he had before the court for me to have a separate trial from these guys so that at the trial they could come and testify on my behalf even if they didn't want to testify on their own behalf at their own trial. So now I go to trial. We went through a long colloqueen court about why you're not giving me the separate trial.
And the judge said to my lawyer, you was here during a court date that I examine him, and he said nothing about testifying, and my lawyer was like, your honor, that never happened. I was never president, I was on trial and Mahan New York County. So they went back and forth from the Kirk ultimately identified to the judge listen, he was not here. So my lawyers that this is the first time I'm in court, were all parties President. I'm telling you I have exonerated statements from them. I
intend to call him. And the judge still denied the motion. Every rus allowed him to testify. So they granted the severance with the guy that made the videotape statement. My position is that you granted that because you were able to impeach him because he made a prized statement saying something contrary to that. The other they did not the severance.
They put Tyrone Flowers on the stand and Tyrone Flowers was basically up there hours whether or not what he said on a video was true or what he was saying today, meaning that time I was on trial, he had a whole bunch of contradictions because, like I said, understand, he's saying they was beating him up to the precinct, and he was basically saying what the officers wanted to say. And the video statement, the officers asked them, were that in an apartment and he was like yes. They asked him,
was anybody shooting out of the window? He was like yes. My position with that was the same thing as with the officers. And what he's saying is true, where the evidence of that right. It always comes back to the fact that this version of events is just words, right, even though these words were repeated by three police officers as well as allegedly and and this they say allegedly, but it's very credible, especially in that era, that they
were beaten out of Tyrone Flowers. This narrative runs counter to all the physical evidence, while your version events is supported by the physical evidence as well as by Randy Hampton and Darryl Smith. Unfortunately for you, however, Darryl, as your codefendant, was not allowed to testify, and Randy was never called by your lawyer. But what about all the other alibi witnesses that your investigator actually interviewed. One witness
identified me by the phone of miss Braunson. Another witness lived in three Dumont Avenue and was like, I see who was in that, but he was not there. He was not involved in that. So these witnesses my lawyer never put on a stand. This is just straight crazy. I mean, these other witnesses were not presented your severance motion.
Denial kept the jury from hearing from Darryl Smith about your innocence, and then with Tyrone's video statement impeaching what he was coming forward with on the stand, this was not looking good for you. Between the prosecution's tactics and the failures of your attorney. It was basically a systematic removal of any evidence in your defense. So the people put their case on and it was essentially the testimony
of the the officers. Once they got the testimony from them, they went through the technical stuff and marshooting a whole bunch of evidence to establish that it was a shootout between whoever was in that apartment and whoever shot through that apartment door. They had pictures of the bullet hole through the door. They had bullet markers all in the hallway. They had spitshells. Some of them matched weapons that they found inside the apartment in the closet, and some of
them didn't. I guess those were guys that shot in and they were never arrested. Every single thing that they testified about with respects to these two groups of people shooting at each other, they had all of the physical evidence for that, but there was not one single shred of evidence demonstrating that anything happened between anybody at any window and a police officer. Now, one of the officers actually testified that he's seen the shotgun and the shotgun
was being fired, and this happened before the revolver. Two of them said they didn't see a shotgune. Not one single shotgun splace shell was recovered when they recovered all of these other stuff. So evidence with respects to why I'm is non existence outside of the testimony on these three officers, you know, And it's striking to me that
they didn't even bother to coordinate their stories. If I had to guess, they must have thought, well, we're going to convict this guy regardless, So why are we even gonna waste time trying to sit around and make sure our stories match. They didn't even bother to do that. So you have conflicting testimony, all of which is nonsensical because it didn't match any of the facts. You have a total lack of evidence. It sounds like, I mean,
it's a show trial. When the jury went out, did you still feel like you had a hope in hell of being acquitted. It's not like I had a trury that was made up of people that understand. It's a
difference in the way policing is being conducted. A lot of stuff that people is outraged about now, it's stuff that was unfortunately normal for me and God that grew up with me feedback then they didn't have cameras, But for us it was like, it's nothing for the police to pull up, guns drawn, get down, get on the car, don't move. That's regular stuff for us. So everybody don't have that view. So when a person here, somebody in authority that took the oath to uphold the Lord, why
would these guys break that? Why would they get together and say that, Why would you make that up? So these juries, they don't know that part of it. But to answer your question directly, yes, I really thought that I had a shot, because who is going to believe that they're going to be evicted for something, Not that you got the wrong person or any It never even happened. It never happened. It's just an unbelievable indictment of our system in general. I mean the fact that you're there now.
Jesus Christ. You've been in prison eight years longer than you were alive outside of prison. So this is insanity for a crime that never happened. I'm gonna say it again and again and again, a crime that never happened, in which no one was hurt, and no one was touched, and no one was harmed in any conceivable way, not even their feelings were hurt. So okay, So the moment that you were convicted, if you could take us back to that, must have been the worst moment of your life.
October sixteenth ago, before the citiesn't judge and a citisen't judge, basically said that I am going to run twenty five years to life sinces consecutively, which told you seventy five years to life, because I do not want any one of these officers to feel like I'm punish you all. At the same time, she sensing me like I was a serial killer. So when I got sense to that, they immediately shackled me up, wrote me on the bus, and I will shipped the AGA at the time I
was convicted. If somebody woted the capitity three officers in town square, they will not have been able to receive another day more than what I'm saying through very day. Live in New York State, Twitter selves since October ninety I'm in green Haven Corruption Facility that's in Stormville, New York, you know, approximately an hour outside of the city, outside of the Bronx and U exercise, our run marathons, I runs, and I also do mental exercise. Is metter paying, So
I do that. I take that time out for myself, the kid spiritually a line, so that I will be able to prepare myself for the visions of the day and all of this stuff that I got to go through. You can only imagine this the negativity and environment coming from both sides of the fense. But I have a very very strong support system, yourself included Derek Hamilton. Unbelievable. This guy spent a bunch of time in prison before being exonerated. Since the day stepped out, this is the
type of work he's been doing. So I'm encouraged by that. I have a wife whom I've been married to for more than quarter of a century. People don't understand how we do that because they can't stay together that long out there, but she's definitely a rock and the kids, and so it's a combination of these things. Of course, you have moments that are harder than other moments. I love mute, I love to read. I'm always reading, and aside from Fright in my case, I helped a lot
of other guys. I made sure I got a legal research certificate so I could work in lower libraries. I did the IOC, which is basically an inmate lands own committee where I represent population to the administration, bring the concerned administiation back to the population. I do youth empowerment class. Has been involved in a bunch of different organizations and everything that I felt was significant, just trying to be the best person I could be. Well, Terence say, is
you have all my respect? And so now with your post conviction litigation, so much of this starts with the ineffective representation by your trial attorney, right and effective with sisters and council. Of course, I raised that on a pill. They didn't even acknowledge that I had also the severance issue and how it was not constitutive sound for them
to not the severance motion for my codefinders. I have been in Brooklyn District attorneys to convicted review you and for over six years now, and they're supposed to be investigating this wrongful conviction. The district attorney, one of the investigators, did interview the girl and she raverified where she worked and that I would call every day and this was our lifestyle, but basically dismissed that as if that has nothing to do because you're not on our witness at
the crime. I had an extensive meeting with one of the sisters the district attorneys. I explained to I said, listen, look how ridiculous the story is. If the officers, all three of them, they all talking about I'm not trying to scare them, I'm trying to murder them. At what time when I came out of this window actually towards y'all, did y'all decide I was no longer to prey, and
I know nobody shot a nothing. After the meeting, when I called my attorney said, the digrict attorney said that your story has problems because you've told them during the meeting that the officers see you on the walkway, made you get down on your knees and walked towards them, And we had pictures. And if there's nothing wrong with the bottom of Terrence's pants from the knees down to his foot, and if what he said was true, that it would have been something dirty or something on his knee.
So I couldn't believe they said that. So what I did was I called my wife an accid did she have a copy of my child transcripts really available? She said absolutely. I said, go to officers Mackie testimony. He said that when he noticed me, he made me get down on my knees, put my hands behind my back, and walk towards him. I said, make a copy of that. Send that to the district attorney's office. They sent it to the district attorney's office. We didn't hear nothing back
on that. So the next communication, my attorney said, Terrence, the district attorney is saying that during the meeting, you told them that you didn't know miss Brunson at the time you got arrested. You found out about when she became a witness. But the record shows that this is who you call from the precinct. I said, you gotta be kidding me. He said, no, this is what they're telling me. So I pulled out the police report from
the phone cart that I made. The phone court that I made was to the house I was living in, three forty Domont Avenue and to the females who I call every night. Send that to them. When they sent that to the District Attorney's office, they said, oh, we
made a mistake. Somebody wrote some them in and we thought that they wrote Brunson, but it really was somebody named car So I was like, all right, and it's just been a back and forth and then and back and forth and went like that, squabbling over these trivial details while they nord what was glaringly obvious that this was a quote unquote crime that never even happened. That building would have been lit up like a freaking Christmas tree if Terence had shot even once at those police officers.
But that's simply not what happened. So While the squabbling continued, it appeared that some headway had been made in negotiations, so terence Is legal team requested that we shelved this interview until they had a chance to hammer out the terms of this release with the Brooklyn District Attorney Eric and Zalice. And I'm happy to report that Terence now joins us finally from outside the walls. So Terrence, welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. Thank you very much. I appreciate
you guys having me so Terrence. The moment that I finally heard that you were out, I mean I was so happy calling friends and family. Uh might call my colleagues here at Wrongful Conviction. You know Connor, our producer, I think he this case has for some reason or other, this case has bothered him as much as any and I know he's been so invested in this, and so it's uh, you know, it was a great call with him,
and we're all just so happy for you. So I can't imagine what this must be like for your family and of course your wife Michelle, who has been such a credible and steadfast supporter. Shout out to every one of them for their strength through this unbelievable or deal and nightmare? Absolutely, um, so take us there. What was it like to be finally reunited with him three decades on?
It was great. The wife came up to the facility, she was out there with a couple of family members when I was released, and uh, from there, we went out to City Allen and had lunch because they were out there all morning and nobody got any sleep the night before, probably even before that, but definitely not the night before, because they were excited about coming to you know,
be there to be in my support system. I didn't actually feel off the boot until I actually got home, you know, and I was able to be like, wow, I'm here now, you know. But because of the circumstances surrounding how I got released, as great as the feeling is, it was a bitter sweet right, because even though you're out, justice really still hasn't been served in this case, or
if it's been served, has been served cold. Because despite the obvious, which is that you're an innocent man, and again innocent of a crime that never even happened, you still remained sort of a prisoner in a much bigger prison right as a paroleague. I mean even recently, you and I were going to get together, and you know you weren't able to do it because of this these
crazy restrictions that are put on you. Can you explain the deal that you got from the Brooklyn d A Okay, So they were trying to get my lawyers to convince me to plead guilty and that they were reduced the sentence, and I was like, absolutely not. I will die on my feet before I live on my knees and say that I am guilty of something that even they know, and it's obvious that never happened. And what they ultimately did was filed the motion to have my sentence that
was running consecutively ran concurrent. So I had three twenty five life sentence that was ran consecutively, which toldal to seventy five years of life. By them putting an emotion to run a concurrent that would effectively make my sentence to twenty five life right, and since you had already done thirty two years, that made you eligible for parole.
But we know that the pro board doesn't usually let anyone out unless they admit guilt and show remorse, which you just said you weren't about to do so how
is it possible that you're here right now. So the conditions for the sentence reduction would be that the District Attorney's office would not oppose the motion and that they were actually support my release, but I had to sign a waiver for them not to be civilly liable and layman's turn so that the viewers can understand clearly they wanted to be relieved of any possibility of me sowing once I eventually be exonerated or have this illegal sentence vacated,
which was ridiculous to me because first and foremost, just by you putting that on the table in the case that you know I have no business being here and that you expect me to be exonerated. Because if you had iron clad case and you believe that I was really guilty, how would a guilty person be able to sue anybody for anything. So this, for me is an indication that you know, eventually this man is gonna be exonerated.
We just don't want to compensate them for them thirty two years he Yeah, I remember you explaining this possibility to me a few months back while you're still awaiting your hearing, and I'm still just as piste off that your least couldn't have just been allowed by some normal legal channels rather than this deal that feels like well, like you said, bitter sweet, I was led to believe that the judge would not sentence me if I don't sign that. Ultimately, I signed it because I said, at least,
it's not nowhere near an admission of guilt. It's just, you know, monetary conversation and overcoming a civil ball is much easier than trying to overcome an admission of guilt for something that I didn't do, you know, And I wanted to come home with my family. So I signed it, and they did what they said they were going to do, and they supported my release. That was important because, as you asked me, and I pointed out to you, a parole board requires somebody to admit guilt. Your courage to
stand firm and your innocence is impressive and inspiring. You didn't let them get you to bend the knee, and that's just badass. If there's any silver liance these proceedings, it's that at least that aspect of it feels like justice. And I gotta say, as a fellow new Yorker. I'd be happy to do right by you, as I'm sure everyone who hears this story would to give you the compensation that you deserve, which I mean no number would ever be enough to return to you what those three
cops took from you with their lives. You know, for me, I will say that conversation does not buy back the
years that people lost. Right inspect of whatever amount of money, I do think that it is deserving whatever is appropriate under the law, under the circumstances, because it gives a person an opportunity to live whatever golden years they have left at to going through the ordeal and put their family in the position, if they're not already in a position to live a better life generational wealth, so to speak. To have to suffer trying to make ends met after
going through that ordeal is another matter. But personally, for me, it is the fact that I am found guilty for something that never happened. How do I begin a healing process. It's nothing to do with money, Jason, nothing to do with it. Not for me is getting to a place where I'm exonerated. You know, I'm made whole and acknowledge that that ordeal should have never happened. I'm on parole right now. I feel like it's prison without the cell,
without the bars. I gotta worry about getting pulled over, And as soon as my name is ran through the computer, I'm looked at immediately as somebody who tried to kill three New York City police officers. And it never happens. So I'm still living that ordeal. It's traumatic. My next milestone to sixty years old, I have a parole officer. I have to be in by eight o'clock at night. I can't leave the house before eight o'clock in the morning,
you know. So it's happy as I am to be able to hug my wife without bars being in between us, be with my family, eager food and all of that. It's still bitter sweet, and hopefully everygan Zalas we'll see that this needs to be corrected and moved towards that. However, Brothers, with or without his support, I'll follow my motion and I'll have the evidence where it's obvious that I should not have going through the ordeal and let the system work. You know again, it doesn't always work, and we need
to support you know. We'll be here to support you. In any way we can. And I know you had to change dot org petition before you were released. Is that how our audience can show support? Yes, absolutely, I want to let people know where we're at. I'll modify
to change that or petition to reflect my current status. However, I still encourage the supporters that sign to share and encourage their supporters on whatever social media platforms or whatever platform they have to encourage people to continue to sign and support because the ultimate goal is exoneration and that has not been met and all the support we can gather will be highly appreciated. Well, we'll have that length in the episode bio for folks to scroll down and sign.
And Eric has done a lot of good, but this time this is just bizarre and straight up wrong, and I'd like to encourage him to do the right thing. So please join me and signing that petition. And with that, we're now going to go to my favorite part of the show. It's called, of course, closing arguments and terrence. If it's hardy with you, I'd like to use the closing that you had recorded while you were still in prison. It's a straight up appeal to the guns alas, and
I think it's still rings true today. Is that all right with you? Absolutely? Because I believe that it is still relevant. But in closing this interview, I would like the listeners to ask themselves. If you do not believe that I am innocent, and you do not believe or foresee that eventually I will be victorious and exonerating myself, why would you be preoccupied with me signing a waiver for civil liability. A guilty person can't sue anybody for anything. Well,
as you guys know, I'm teris right. You just heard my story and how I got wrongfully convicted. Speaking directly to Evergnzalis having an opportunity to do so. Evergans list I read an article that you did in the Marskerew Project from September two thousand and nineteen. It was Tom Robert. In that article you said that in nine when you were just starting out as a junior prosecutor, your brother was killed. You was twenty seven years old at the time.
You talked about how your father never got over it. When the man convicted of shooting your brother came up for parole after serving ten years, your father opposed release. After two more years, the parole board granted release. You said that when that process was over, knowing that the guy was punished and that your father didn't have to go to any more parole hearings, to be able to a sense of closure, I'm sorry for your lord. I lost the wife to gun violence. On Mars three year.
My wife was shot in the head in the East New York Session in Brooklyn by straight bullet. No one was ever arrested for her murder. So I understand that you also said that you believe in another of the law, and that is what the law allowed in your brother's case, and your family had moved on. On October nine, I was falsely arrested for a crime that never happened. So far, I have already served very close to three times that or which the person served that killed your brother. In
my case, no one suffered the scratch. Your office is well aware of the circumstances around in this case. Aside from the legal issues that clearly demonstrate I am wrongfully convicted. Your office, through their own investigation, is in possession of many statements from witnesses exonerating me. There is not one single shred of physical evidence against me. The rule of law that you said you believe in it does not
allow for the continued imprisonment of innocent people. In the same article, you said that people who were convicted when they were twenty three years old or younger, your office will consider supporting for role for individuals who were twenty three years were younger at the time of sensing. I was twenty three years old, I'm says to seventy five years in life. You talked about promoting trust in the perminent justice system. It is time for you to practice
what you preach. Everything is alice. If you are unsatisfied with the evidence that demonstrates that I'm wrong, prey convicted, and you need something to hang your hat on, why don't you hang your hat on your own words. Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Clyver, and Kevin Wardis. With research by Lila Robinson. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer
Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at wrong for Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at Wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good on all three platforms. You can also follow me on both TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason flam Raval. Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one