#291 Jason Flom with Clarence Harrison

and sorology offered little of probitive value. The officer who eventually made the arrest approached Clarence Harrison, a man who had a previous conviction as an accessory to a robbery involving a woman at a bus stop. When asked about the victim, whom he knew from the neighborhood, Clarence said that if he heard anything that he would forward that information to her family, not the police, an answer that

seemed to annoy the officer. While fabricating a story about a confidential informant having seen Clarence selling the victim's wristwatch, that officer included Clarence in a photo lineup. The assailant was a stranger and the victim do Clarence, but she said that the assailant looked like Clarence. After some time, it perhaps a great deal of pressure, she eventually identified

Clarence and sealed his faith. With the advent of DNA testing and motions filed to finally uncover the truth, came reports that the rape kit had been destroyed along with it. Seems Clarence has hoped for relief from a life plus forty years sentence for a crime he simply did not commit. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today's story is the story of Clarence Harrison, sentenced to life in prison plus forty years. I always wonder about what

those extra forty years or for. Is that if you come back to life, you do another forty It's all crazy, but sence to life plus forty years in Georgia and the State of Georgia for a crime you didn't commit, Clarence. Before I introduce our other distinguished guests today, First of all, I just want to say welcome to the show. I'm glad you're here. Thank you, Thank you. Van Biden. To

me and with us is Amy Maxwell. And Amy is a senior District Attorney in the Fulton County District Attorney's Office. But before before you jump to conclusions, she's actually the head of the Fulton County Conviction Integrity Unit and the former executive director of the Georgia Innocence Project. And what a resume that is. Amy, Welcome to Raffle Conviction. Hi, thanks for having me. And I read an incredible quote from you, Clarence Um where you had said that, and

this is a direct quote. After a year or so in prison, you get burned out, and you fall off into the system, and you lose faith and your hope, and you begin to believe you'll never get out. And

that happened to me. Well, I had been in uh few years, the first few years, I got strung out on trying to prove my answ and but I got burnt out, and uh I kind of low faith in the system and go out and everything and just maybe with life some twin and plus twina, you know, I was gonna live and that in prison, you know, and I tried to you know, a silk death with my life gonna be So I shipped the outside world out, called it there's so called free world, and I called

the prison life my life. That was the real world to me. It's always amazing to me when when people like you were able to come out of that dark spiritual hole that you were in, and how you did it is an amazing part of the story. We're gonna get to that, but let's go back to the beginning. So you're born in Georgia. What was your childhood like? A pretty uh decent young man growing up, I was

a club scout, a boy scout, you know. But as I got older and high school, I started doing drinking and yam, so I became a posted gama playing cards. I'd like to play pokem black jack, whatever kind of gam in the world. I just like the game, saidly say, I think they come from God. Just don't remember I have with my father who ran a bootleg house on a gam in the house and got throwed out, scooped

because I went't doing right in school. But I got married early, just turned eighteen, head two daughters, and my first wife she had a daughter, So I had three girls. That's a lot, especially for somebody at the at that young age. And uh, I had my own struggles with gambling and drinking as a kid. So I can relate to that. But I was very lucky to never get into the type of serious trouble that you got into.

From what I understand, some of the people you were hanging out with at the time got you into even more trouble when when you were riding around the car unaware of their intentions, and one of them popped out of the car and robbed a woman at a bus stop there was in nineteen seven eight. I didn't commit that crime. A partner and I with him the same thing. Wait, that's starting to sound like you were wrongly convicted, not

once but twice. Now I ain't gonna say our ronal convicted because our extra with him, all I know we were rat bashing stopped the car, I said, bashing when you stopping the cup for? He said, RIXI eli as a man, y'all been not being breaking no boy how he said, now, man, no there you go back there, not a little back. Rick stand up, partner to going there, lay as man, y'all get that stupid food. And I get out of the car, told Rick, get it back

in the car. Your partner to going They think you know, all of them turned state and I'm the on one went to prill. I get that you were with them, so technically that does make you an accessory. But still you tried to stop your friend, maybe even saved that lady's life. I mean, there's a case that we made. Then your friends went and saved their own asses, turning state's witnesses and putting you in prison for almost six years and leaving you primarily on the radar of the

local police. So now we fast forward to the where a seven year old young man and this awful crime happens in Dikalb County, Georgia, also to a young woman at a bus stop. Amy, can you fill us in the rest of the details, and a warning to our audience, this is hard to hear. It was the morning of October six, It was really early in the morning, and the woman had just gotten a job at Grady Hospital, which was the large public hospital here in in Fulton

County in Atlanta, Georgia. And she was standing at the bus stop waiting for the bus, and it was dark outside and it was raining. A man walked across the street, walked past her, turned around, and she didn't actually see him come up, but he came up behind her grabbed her from the back, drug her away from the bus stop. He ended up actually dragging her to three different locations where he assaulted her repeatedly. It was terrific, probably forty

five minutes to an hour of being constantly abused. He'd abused her one place, he'd drag her someplace else, assaulter again. It was It was horrible, and he ended up hitting her in the face and knocking out some of her front teeth. He ends up leaving her. I don't know if he thought she was dead or what, but he left her and she's, you know, of course, completely nude. She tries to flag down a car. The first car just drives right by her, but the second car does

stop and and help her. She ends up going into the hospital. They took a sexual assault kit, which of course ends up later being extremely important. And as far as how Clarence became a suspect, what the police said was that some confidential informant had told them that Clarence was trying to sell a woman's watch, and one of the very few things that the rapist took from this woman was watch. So the police and courts say, that's how we got to Clarence because Clarence was trying to

sell a woman's watch. Later we find out that wasn't at all true. The police officer actually admitted that he made that whole story up right, and they and they just decided it was him, right, the guy who had previously been an accessory to robbing a woman at the bus stop. So, Clarence, what were you up to on the night before and into that morning? I was directed to across screet from my home. Had a friend of

mine house. He ran, uh bootleg house where we go with them bad beer and stuff and we usually play cards without every weekend now playing call for a few hours there. It's an ear the morning elect him getting daybreak and I told my a man, that's uh, it's gonna be day Brad gets something to get ready to go home. They had to be around about five six o'clock in the morning. And as how, walking old mall opening the door, and I've seen the guy walking to

the screek and heywa, hey, were you here? Man? He's aid, he said, going to the bus stop. I said, the bus stop. I was a man, that's a you got a couple of hours for the bus round man, that's Uh, this the weekend. If you want to make come over and stand up on the poet. He said, Now he's something. I guess. I'm going on the walk as you better store running in because I look like I from the

poll down rain. I went in. How So next morning my mom come in the room and waked me up and stuff and asked me to go to the store for And as I walking back fun the store, I see up a call that looked like a police car and he stopped me as he ain't you cleaning here? I said, yeah, he's living there right there. I said yeah. He said, did you see him one go to the screen lays at night? I said, I've seen somebody going that this morning. He said, uh, do you know where

you are? Now? I don't know. I know he's from around here. I said, what's up? He's a lady got rolled or on your family being lays name were dunk? I said, doctor, how you gotta be telling my Ken and Harold doctor them with them know on the Dunkers in the air. I know everybody in the everything like that. So he said, well, if you see the guy, let me not Well, if I see the guy like Ken inher with them know, and if they want you there, let you know that that he's So you don't tell me.

I oh, hey, man, I don't want to have no dealer with no polium. And tell them and let them tell you that said that they sister, it's okay, I see as man, you the polly, you can do what you wanna do. Man, that's something to go on. And I walked on you and how I got you, and how I told my sister, you know, with the polic head see it and with Athman. So she said, will you be at watching him cause you know who that he is? Said? Yeah, I said Dawson's that she's yeah.

And it turns out that this Dawsome guy is the same cop who picked you up on that robbery back in the nineteen seventy eight. So what happens next couple of days later come back to the how as, hey, he's, uh, you've seen that guys a little man. As I told you, man, if I see him lit ken inhered them. No, you know, as I don't even know who they due war. You don't live what we all. He said, So you're not gonna tell me that, man, I tell them, ain't telling

you nothing? He's all right, I'm gonna see that. Said, all right, I just told you man, you the poll, you do what you wanna do. He left again. They time me come. They come back with a warant She had a woe for mile rist form robber. My so said, can I see the one? He said yeah, looked at the war and said the thing got raped. Robber ain't kidnapping. I said, what do I pot on raking the road? You're like that? And when I said that, my nick came out of the room said, claim who you know? Ray?

Girl quit being said, ain't ray nobody. They're like that, And my south said it got dunking on. She I don't know the doctor. That's who they got to be telling out. So she's up in the colding. So she called the victim. He said she had the big things that you said, my uncle, the one was supposed rate you. And she told the police said she said that she didn't say that he raped does She said there was somebody that looked like him. And when my niece told

him that, he snapped the phone. Well, when he snapped the phone, well I snapped the phone him and told no, snaid no phone man, you don't pay no bill. He's I tell you what you come and go with me. He snapped me and put the handcuffs on me. He took me to the police station. So you're gonna take away by the same guy who arrested you for the nineteen seventy eight robbery, who you haven't been all that

helpful to in this incident. And the probable cause that they used for the arrest want we come to find out was a totally made up story about a confidential informant who told them about Clarence selling the victim's watch. It's too bad and d day testing is still his fledgling stages, because otherwise we may not be having this conversation and you never would have been subjected to this

misery at all. So is one of the theories that it may have been this guy that Clarence saw walking down the street at five or six in the morning. Well that's one option. There are some other people that were in the neighborhood it could have been. Unfortunately, when ultimately the DNA is tested, it doesn't tell us who the actual perpetrator was. Right, and as Clarence's niece heard over the phone from the victim that she said it

looked like Clarence, not that it was Clarence. And this awful crime definitely happened to this poor woman, and this is definitely a stranger un stranger crime. The victim did not claim to have known the assailant, but she definitely knew Clarence. So what happens to turn this towards Clarence in the face of this overwhelming evidence of the country. They ended up getting an identification from the victim um she said that she was absolutely certain it was Clarence Harrison,

and from there it's snowballs. And we know that in the heat of the moment victims of violent crimes, their perception is notoriously unreliable. I witnessed mis identification, after all, is one of the main causes of wrongful convictions. But it's really super odd because the victim said she didn't know the assailant, but you knew her well with d that the victim knew me. So what she said she didn't know the person who committed a clan her house,

and she'd been to Mahoup. So we don't know what kind of tactics they used to make that turnaround come about, but whatever it was. It certainly feels like she was real victimized, but a rape victim identifying you is pretty much all it takes, I mean absence some sort of powerful exculpatory physical DNA evidence or something like that. And now comes the arrangement. And unfortunately Clarence was poor, right, he didn't have the money to hire a lawyer who

could jump on the case right away. After he was arraigned. The judge literally there was a lawyer that was just there in the courthouse, and the judge appointed that lawyer the case. And the Jeward told him that he was assigned until he said, no, you're run. I got a full case. Low at can't handling ca He said, well, almost saying you to this case. And they were going back and forth so a bench, the Jeworge saying the man representment and they were talking to the police are

with uh with trying to have become a suspect? And now he said, big identifying my photograph? He said, how did the big him identified for prior to the big identifying the photographs? He said, where he went through hundreds of police ruck He said, well, prior to that, how did the defender become a suspect? Then he said something about fend the head of past similar air of defense, and I told him, I said, well, indeed kind of case. What y'are saying rapings? Now? All this old stuff, don't

you all for the helpdence and stuff like that. I didn't do some type of testing thing. So georgea, so what you're requesting blood simper? I don't requesting whatever testing you need to prove my owns because ain't didn't that. So George said, well, I'm gonna recommend that you would do blood testings and set your bon and I said, said, who are boning? As? I don't want to a ball with y'all letting me go because they ain't did then, But I didn't. I didn't mean to turn the ball

on down. I want him to know that I ain't done anything, you know. But he told that like I was denying the boning and stuff, so they didn't have me a boning. So you've got a lawyer who has argued that he has a foldcase load and doesn't even have the time to take your case on. Well, at least he was honest about it, but it didn't matter. Your trial happened only about three months later, so there was no chance for any real investigation to bolster your defense,

and none was done. Well, you know, the said for with my lawyer, because when I first come in in the courtroom and I was sure the lawyer the people in the courtroom who was it being a hell? I would the one who playing code that could terrify And lawyer told me said what his defense wasn't to prove my ownswer. His defense would allowed the state the opportunity to prove me guilty, you know, and hasn't proved me good.

That we aren't gonna prove me good. For when you can prove I ain't do it, he said, he didn't do an investigation to prove my ownswer. His investigation wards allowed the state opportunity to prove me guilty. Wow, that's so, that's why none of the people who we had the code game were cold other than the one the state code. The state also called the victims brothers who confirmed that the assailant was supposed to have been a stranger and

that you were not a stranger. Then you had the ser logical testing, which really your only hope there is that the actual perpetrator has a different blood type from you,

and the victim. But in this case, the prology expert testified some misleading nonsense that he was able to exclude like twelve percent of people and Clarence could not be excluded, which sounds like something, but if you just take a second and rewind this, you'll realize that it simply means that Clarence was one person in eight percent of the male population who could not be excluded, right, So basically almost everybody could not be excluded. It's a ridiculous statement,

but it was effective. I'm not sure how much difference it would have made, though, with the victim having identified him. The jury had witness that took the stand and said that is absolutely him, and we had evidence that said yeah, he could have been He was in that percent of the population, he wasn't excluded there, and that was enough for the jury. Clarence, how long did the jury deliberate and what was going through your mind? Hour? Up? This

is March eighteenth, nine seven. I think it were listening two hours. But I was believing in the system at time. I really believe that the system worth and that it was impossible for them to find me guilt. It wasn't about two out they called me back up stairs. When I got up there, they said they found me guilting because they enjoyed something sends you the life plus twinter

plus twinter. But I'm standing around. I'm looking for this hero to come and correct this are you know, because somebody always come and correct and when they do wrong like this. But then I turned around. When I looked back, I saw my mom crying. And when I see my mother cry, I realized the photo took my life away. Well, when I first enter in the prison system, I got a letto from some uh intern from Center Ministry. They

thought that was a classic case a wrongfully conviction. So they told me, said, well, there's a new stud of being done called DNA, and they suggested that I tell a male turning to request the hell of at all the evidence and mat caves preserved and safe future DNA testing. Well Man Turning wrote me back and said that the this returner said that all the evidence maccave been removed and destroyed. Yeah, we've heard that one before, but okay, for the time being, what else were you up to?

But prior to that, I had been trying to work on my own caith reading and trying going back and forth over my transcript trying to read and stuff. One that I've seen a guy working on another guy keith, and I asked him what he was doing. They told me he was a changing lawyer. Said he were pretty good and name were Robert Burson. The guy was very good with briefs and habd corpy and they asked me,

look at mine. He told me. If I hearm, I told me you so you Haim transcripted, Hey man, old, look man, I can't read that good and now you want me to read it something he's I tell you what if you go back this cool? If they learned how to read stuff, I'm gonna help you get out. You're like that as there ain't no problem due so I quiz. Had my counsel put me back in school. It wasn't that I couldn't read. It just had a never exercise. Because after I got back in school, I

ended up getting my g D in nine months. I got into a college program. But during that time I was in college, I started helping him mountain stuff and he told me about pari legal course that I could take through the mayor. And I was reading open track, going through the books and stuff working on the case after all this, and I learned how to shop that case and stuff like that. The guy worked on the writing brief and stuff, and from that part on I got dog gonna learn how to try to get out. Well,

that didn't help. All I know. My mother paid. My mother paid the dnamen than that I gave up, so I except that I was gonna spend the rest of my life in priv You know, Clarence, My understanding is that you found hope when a very unexpected and sort of serendipitous right, which was when another prisoner was talking to his girlfriend and handed you hit the phone. And this was when you were really in the dark place as you described, right, And on the phone was the

girlfriend's mother, whose name was Ivonne Zeller's. I would love if you could just share a little bit about that. Yes, um, I started putting down poker games in the dumbitor stuff. You know, guys played poker stuff. One of the guys, that man said, how about how nick my mother in law man she's trying to jump with as a man as ant you know, I only with the most so called free world folks like that. He had been the phone sting. I get on that sto. I said, what's

up the latest? What's your problems? She said, what's your problem? And I start teasing with the heaving phone, you know, and all of a suddain you know I'm talking and she said, man, you're crazy. Man, that ain't crazy, You're crazy, you know. I'll tell you what she said, what's your nomber? Would you want to I'm gonna write you, and you're gonna write me. Well, she started sending me the Baba scriptures and she would come to business stuff. She were

witnessing to him. She wasn't trying to date me anything like that, but she was trying to witness to me with Bob the scripture. And one day I was sitting up playing poking stuff that and they had put a new dudes in my room. He was a Christian, always reading about in the room stuff and I be damn the every day. So one day asked him what she could send me the scriptures? She wants you to reply

back to How you gonna reply back to? Day? He said, you got to read about But I knew it was a trick somewhere, you know, So I had to do. I do you reply to the thing? He told me how they doing things. So I thought, reading about script and right, I would say, she come and visit me and tell me about the new program they got called the George on some projects. She said, a matter of fact, what you're in for by send him a transcript. That's me who they're talking about. They saying that both did.

They don't say you did, and they said the lady said, or somebody, they don't say who did. As I know, they're trying to say the idea that she's a man. You know what, I'm gonna get your lawyer, as I know you super want you already got two jobs, already talking about your being a thing. Then you want to get another job for me? And sure enough she got a third job watching dishes. And she had the lawyer and I told him I wanted him to find the

DNA evidence in that cake. He went on and we looked for He said, well, there's no evidence of it, evidence being a stroller. And if there's no rock of the evidence, is this well Lloyd kept looking forward. That's when I wrote the Georgians and Project. When they found evidence, it was a whole new ball game, you know, yep, the whole new ball game it was. So I think it's safe to say that Ivan was able to rekindle your hope and the story, your faith and focus on

freedom and amy. The Georgia Innocence Project was brand new at that time, right, So tell us about taking Clarence's case and what it took to get him out. Clarence was the twenty one letter we received. So he wrote us very very very early and getting it started, and every one of his letters was compelling. From the beginning.

He wrote very specific, very detailed information explaining, you know, like this is what they said, this is what was real, this is where I was, this is And then he started sending us bus schedules that he had gotten, diagrams of the scenes. I mean, this man clearly was trying

to figure out how he ended up in prison. So we started looking at the case and it was a really odd case and many many points we could have just said no, like he had had an appeal, he had had DNA testing done, but it was weird because they said they could not test the evidence because of the way the slide had been stained, and that made no sense to us, and we asked experts and they're like, uh, that's not a thing. You know, we've been staining slides

the same way since we started staining slides. It doesn't prevent testing. So we're like, okay. And then the district attorney had reported that the evidence had been destroyed, that it was gone. But there were things that bothered us, and we knew that there was the potential just because you say you destroyed it, you got to prove to me you've destroyed it, right. You gotta have a piece of paper show me you've destroyed it. So we just kept on and kept on, and one afternoon I sent

an intern, Laura of A Ducci. I'll never forget Laura. She went to the d a's office and I said, just go look and see. You know what kind of documents they have, you know, just go through their file. And I get a call from her. She says, Amy, there is a brown paper bag in here and it's marked evidence, and she goes, I can't really feel and I'm not trying to do anything, but it feels like that, you know, there may be slides and things in here.

And I'm like, this was my very first case, right, so I'm thinking, oh my god, they're going to try to hide this because they've already said it was destroyed. They're going to destroy it. What am I gonna do? So I said, just put the lid on, don't say anything, and get back over here quick. So she did, and we immediately typed up the motion to have it tested, and at that point the d A realized, oh my gosh, we really do have the evidence, and they did not

oppose testing. We sent it to a private lab and after they did their testing, the order said that the lab was supposed to tell both parties, and the head of the lab thought that meant that he had to tell us both at the same time. So he called me and he said, I think you need to go to the d a's office. I've got the test results. And I'm like, well, tell me what they are. He goes, no, I have to tell you both at the same time. I'm like, oh my gosh, tell me right now. What

is it? He goes, Amy, I would hurry to the d a's office. I'm like, okay, hey, I'm on my way. So we called the d A and you know, he had his people in the office with us, and we get on the phone and the doctor said, yeah, Clarence Harrison is absolutely excluded. And I looked over and the d a's face just dropped, and I think that never, ever, ever, ever did he think this could happen. And he asked a thousand questions, and of course, you know, there's it's

it's clear the DNA is not Clarences. So this was up Tuesday, and I said, I'm going to do a press conference on Friday, y'all, you'll decide what you want to do. So I get back and I don't know what's going to happen, right, So I called the folks up in New York at the Innacent's Project, and I said, how long is it gonna take me to get him out of prison? And Clarence was the hundred and fifty one DNA exnerie, and they said it's going to take

you anywhere between six months and two years. And I thought, great, all right, fine, and so we went down and told Clarence and I warned him it was going to take a very long time to get him out of prison. And it did not name your excitement about the resort. You've ruined it for me, Clarence, You've ruined it. Wait, so he ruined it almost seems like it couldn't be ruined. How doubted he ruined it? Well, that's because Clarence ruined my big moment um. So we actually convinced the Department

of Corrections to let us take a video camera. So we got down and we're meeting in this lovely conference room and said, Clarence, we got the test results back. And he goes okay, and mind you, the video cameras go in the whole time. He's like okay, And I'm like, are you ready to hear the results? And he's like yeah. And I said, well it absolutely excled you. And he goes okay, no, no reaction, nothing like Clarence, do you

understand it proves that you're innocent? He goes okay, and I'm like, uh, And I'm thinking to myself, did I miss that? He might be like, you know, I'm not intellectually, you know, there might be some problems. I'm like, he does he understand me? And I say, Clarence, do you understand? He goes amy, He goes, that test was for you. I've always known I was innocent. So I have the world's most boring video of telling Clarence he's innocent. That was happened I would happen for you, you know that.

And I was happy that now somebody knew that I hadn't committed, you know, just that alone was enough for me. And you were just cool as a cucumber, even though you were getting the best I mean, other than maybe the birth of your kids. This had to be the best news you've ever gotten in your life. Yeah, and the one didn't go back to massile and I got back to doom. I told you, ain't y'all. I'm fley'all now, I told you I don't phone approved, ain't commit the crime.

The whole dome lit up and just stow a celebrating stuff. We had a little part in the dombitor, you know. Oh the guy will happen for me and stuff. You know. But uh, I thought they're gonna wait six months or two you and thing. But on that Friday they called me and told me how to go down to cold out. You're scared to brace something because I didn't know what they speck on outside world. I didn't have no time.

Ain't nobody cheating up and get out? You know, three days I don't even know where Mania was sleep That Thursday without telling me the District Attorney's office arranged to have Clarence brought back to the Cab County. So on Friday when we had our press conference, the District Attorney's office stood next to me and said, yes, this is an innocent man. We're going to get him out of prison. Everything happened so very fast. So within seven days Clarence

was out of prison. What an amazing thing. And for such a guy as as Clarence, it's really, um, it's it's just awesome, and it's it's why we do this work. Let's face it, the victories are few and far between, and we know we're in for a disappointment after disappointment, and the system is stacked against us. But when we win, man, it's a it's a it's an incredible, incredible feeling. Um. And then then and then this takes a romantic to us.

Right yep. When I got out stand on their coat room when they released me from from jail, I'm standing up there without the report. They asked me what type of meal and stuff I want? That told him I wanted me a full color green cone bread, fried cheek and background. She tastes out. I would name it at all. I wanted it too, and uh, they asked me something as well as a first of all, I got to find me a job because I don't even know where

I'm gonna sleep it. And I hope if I found me a job and paid me enough, Sack and Marridge a little later, right, hum, So I started peeking the hall, but I was just teasing with because we never chold full and no relationship. She was always there witnessing to me. So I see, as hopefully I'm making no money about the pretty little lady on Rain and she'r over to your mayor. Well, sure enough, the republic herried that man. We got all kind of got the wind dress, the range.

Atlanta came through for you and donated everything Steen days that I was least that were Ma. You were and you're still married, aren't you still? Mary May? Seventeen years? But I was locked up seven teen years now, been marvery seven teen year A lot back up on again, Clarence, you didn't just stop was being declared innocent? You sought for the state to make things right. Well, my intitition wars I won't. I wanted to bowlow suit for my

wrong and imprisonment. I had these lawyers, and I want to find out how I got embolved in their came because I was told that you know, I'm about to try to prove my answer, you know, before you can found in type of losser that it was delivered and the intention. I said, yeah, with delivering tentioner, how they're gonna came down? Were handy been the live because you

know I wouldn't it to seen. So the lawyer said, got to get the victim to admit that it was a mistake in that dumblic cation as well name center the case. Thing, Well, victim identifies some they're not gonna go back on their work and they don't leave over that just along with I don't leave with being look cute. So that ain't gonna help, I said, but I want the officer. I really believe the man deliver intention and

made me that suspect. And I was chilling to be a Mitchell who was mild turning, and I was telling as the man you're the one who responded me being in He said, well, not harder with the police office being their help as well, he's a police officer. And one thing about the police officer their erica. They think they can't be church. He's what you mean, because he erica up and he gonna meet and said he did it.

He might tell you what the attitude, but he erica nothing to do it, you think, so as I know so, and sure enough he did it. Seemed there was no unidentified person say he done that because I had a small amount, because you had a smart mouth, right, and he ended up in president all those years for basically talking bout I mean, it's unbelievable. But see the theory

of that. By me having a small amount, that whole because when you came behind me, you already knew who I wore, knew where I lived and everything, so you came looking for me that very morning. So he already had not made me a suspect because I had a pride offense for rang the female at the bus stop and then picked him got raked at the bus stop, and he was the police officer who arrested me back then, so he figured I was locked up for that, that I had committed this crime, and he was gonna make

me be that person. Right. He hadn't with you since nineteen seventy eight in a crime where you were an unwilling accessory to a robbery, So he was already barking up your tree before you ever even talked back to him on that faithful morning of October six. So your presence in the photo lineup and everything that followed was all this one police officer wanting desperately to send a convicted felon back to prison, and he did for almost

eighteen long years. So you ultimately received compensation in two thousand nine, although nothing would ever repay what this guy stole from you, and it was only a million dollars for lost wages, much of which is gone by now. So from what I understand, you've been advocating for exonorees to receive social security with Senator as off right incredible.

We're trying to get a b up so security because when gad get out and stuff, I'll cheer you every guy in the pribim when you go two things in there, you help the bay and everything. Them gazing in no shape to be come up and trying to work and

putting a bitteen twenty years in getting overtired me. They won't be to you know, because they bought it broke now and but they can't get the air pinching their thing because doing old gil so secured to have a zero there of income ain't being put in there and which that sho would be replaced. The every inmate that's in the prison system works. It called detail. If you don't have a detail and go out to your detail, you'll put in the hole. You're punged for not working.

So I'm unable to get so secured, I can't get my retirement. Y'all stole me youth, and now you don't want to come say for my oldie. You know it missed up. It definitely is, you know, And you got me thinking. I'd imagine that you could fix the social security issue through legislation. But if they just ended the loophole in the thirteenth Amendment that still allows for the enslavement of men and women who are convicted of a crime, well then they'd have to pay you for your work

as well as contribute to social security. Right, would be two problems solved at once. That you had read on the my that we will slave labor, but the slave labor right. You can definitely argue that an axonrey like yourself deserves to be taken care of through retirement. For the rest of your life as your ability to earn and pay into Social Security was, I mean, it was

wrongfully stolen away through no fault of your own. But ultimately the question comes down to does the United States still support this sort of secret form of slavery or not. It's disgusting that we're still benefiting off of free labor. Corporations are, and in some cases taxpayers are especially considering the origins of it all. So I'm glad you have Senator ass Off support, so we'll be on the lookout

for developments there. In the meantime that Georgia in this project has the support fund set up for Axonure, so if our listeners would like to help men and women like Clarents, we're going to have that linked in the bio, and so please do go to the bio now, don't don't wait, because you know we all get distracted and send some support for some axonaries, even if it's five bucks or five million bucks, whatever you got. Just I mean,

it's try to think of a better cause. And now we turn into closing arguments, where first of all, I thank both of you for being here and sharing this remarkable story. And then of course, I'm going to just shut my microphone off, keep my headphones on and listen carefully to anything else you feel is left to be said. So Amy, let's start with you and Clarence. Please take us off into the sunset. I think that Clarence Harrison

taught me to never give up. Even though he went through dark times, he never gave up and he always, always, always tries to give back. He's always great to the new Axonorees. He loves to talk to kids to try to tell them, don't go down a path that's going to lead you to being where I was. And he's always an inspiration. But I think the overriding thing with

Clarence is never ever give up. Film this that do enjoy speaking the keys and things and try to encourage them you know they're on the right papp and stay away from that prison that revolved and throw it when I called it, you know, wait for young people, you know my main thing and now focused on this uh, trying to get some beers paid for others allaries for those who was inconcerating wrong with in prison that they don't wanta have to go through the struggle that I

had to go through. While I'm out, you know, I want them to have some type of conversation. I definitely want to try to make sure that this is so security issue is resolved. We need help and we don't have it. That's my thing and that's what I'm working on that. I want to stay with it. But I've been fighting for justice every since I've been out. Because it wasn't for them in terms being there to help

try to get me out, I wouldn't be out. So I want to try to be there when them guys get out and then me and turn and get them out. I want to be there when trying to help them, you know, transition back into side because it was an alary that helped meant transition Cavin Johnson and my wife and Aim because that put a long leaning on him,

you know. And when for aiming my way, I probably would have scruggled harder and that wold s. I'm steal with Anson project Sam team going away eight teen years now. I steal by Nicole. You know, Dan's Friday got more people's out, you know, And we thank you Aim for you how to support you gave both and making what it is today. Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff

Clyvern and Kevin Wardis, with research by Lila Robinson. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at

Lava for Good. On all three platforms. You can also allow me on both TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason flam Raleval Conviction is the production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one h