#282 Jason Flom with Bobbie Jean Johnson - RE-RELEASE

Through our social channels. We asked our listeners to name some of their favorite episodes, and Bobby Jean Johnson's story rose to the top. Here is her heartbreaking story recorded in Atlanta at the INNOCENTCE Network conference in twenty nineteen, shortly before her untimely passing away later that year. Bobby Jean Johnson was given up for adoption at birth and later molested while she was in foster care. She ran away from that horrible situation and tried to survive as

And with her is Kat Forrester.

Who is the communications director for the Unstan's Project of New Orleans, also known as IPNO.

And Kat, welcome to wrongful conviction.

Thanks so much to be here.

So Bobby Jean was freed from prison twenty eighteen after serving forty one years in prison for a crime she didn't commit. And this case has so many of the hallmarks of the causes of wrongful convictions that you know, it's almost a clean.

Sweep, so to speak.

I mean, there was misconduct, there was a false confession that you were tortured into making incompetent defense. It's not even that's not even strong enough of a word. And we're going to get into that all of that, But we're talking about the murder of Arthur Sampson, right, And this is an extremely violent crime. This was a white man who was an antiquities dealer in New Orleans who was shot and stabbed a hundred times. I mean, that's

Tall are you, I'm five feet tall.

You're five feet tall, and you're not a big one.

I wasn't that big at the time. I was like ninety eight pounds, like, and I will size zero pains. I could go my clothes out the children's section.

So the whole thing makes no sense just on a purely physical level. And mister Sampson, I mean, nobody deserves to die like he did. But he was a sort of a dicey character anyway.

Right.

He was known for bringing sex workers to his home, which is one of the reasons why the logical suspect would have been this woman who was a sex worker who was the last person to see him alive.

Yeah, she was the last person he was seen with by anyone.

Right, So usually you know, we all watch those crime shows on TV, you know, you go down that path at least take a look, you know, But that's not what happened.

What year was this byby nineteen seventy seven?

You were an eighteen year old girl, yeah at the time, So what was going on? You were living in New Orleans at the time.

Yeah, and I was like on drugs and stuff, right. So one night we was riding in a call. It was me and two other dudes were writing in a call and it caps the police staptics for a traffic violation.

Were you were you driving? No?

I wasn't driving right. And at the time when the police stopped us, one of the dudes that was in the call with me threw the knife in the gun in my person. So because I know, I didn't have no knife and gun in my purse. So when the police pulled all my stuff out my person, he said, oh, we got a knife in the gun. I said, that is not for me. But they took us to Homicide Armed Division and they put us in different rooms and kept questioning us in questions, and I kept telling them

I mean, Kat, do you think they knew at the time that it has the wrong person, but they just wanted to clean up the case and that was what was really going on.

Yeah, I think so.

I mean, I think they had a pretty viable suspect and they didn't follow any of the leads and that other suspect case. And I think that so often, particularly you know, back in the seventies, eighties, nineties in New Orleans, particularly with black folks. I think that they, you know, the cops got tunnel vision, and you know, when they found somebody and it seemed easy enough to pin it on that person, you know, even if all the evidence

So they knew, they knew that this guy had come forward who admitted that he had a classy guy. By the way the cops coming, he's put in his knife and he's gone to your purse. I mean, that's a

But I mean, you went to the police station and what happened, And.

Then they put us in separate rooms. And they kept throwing pictures in front of me, and they said this is him and this is I said, well, I've never seen that man before. Guy, Yeah, the dead man, Arthur Samson. And then one hit me in my face. He said, no, listack to the other room. So when they took me to the other room, they still was asking me. So when I kept saying I don't know. I can't tell

Yeah, you had a very good reason to be scared.

I mean, I was hurting everywhere, and even after the JL fell backward, they was kicking me in my ribs and everything. It was horrible.

And Jason, I just wanted to say that, like, the world had not been kind to Bobby Jean before this all happened. You know, she had had a really tough up upbringing, and it makes so much sense that she would do anything to kind of survive, right this, this brutal police interrogation, and thank you about me.

Yeah, I just feel like.

The world had not been kind to her, had not offered her a lot of hope.

And I, you know, I.

Think because I was I was given away when my mama had me, and I had to go on like that. It was like I was scaring all world with my huldren.

So I just got out there and I just wanted somebody to love me, and I just.

Wanted to be accepting and stuff. So whatever it took for me to do that, I did it.

And she was she was a young a young girl, as you keep kind of pointing out, you know, who was.

Doing the best she could with what she had. And then and then this thing happened to her, right.

Yeah, then this thing happened.

This is you know, there's been too many of these cases where we've learned that the officers have threatened to kill the person unless they confess. Johnny Encapier is one Daniel Villegas in Texas. There's too many of these. And you know, Johnny says to me, he was on the podcast and he said, people asked me why would I confess? And he was eighteen, like you were, and he says, why wouldn't I confess?

He goes, I wanted to live, you know.

What I want? I just want I want to live.

I was a young girl eighteen. You're really more of a child than a woman. I mean at that point, you know, I mean, we know that the adolescent brain doesn't fully develop.

Until you're twenty five.

And here you are not just a young girl, but a little girl, right, ninety eight pounds, like you said, in a room full of big, tough guys who you would want to think are going to protect you, right, And in fact they're threatening in a very real way.

Right.

It's not like it doesn't sound like an empty threat when they're putting a plastic bag over here, and being you and kicking you. I mean, so, I don't think there's any question, And I think it's so important that you're here, and I really appreciate you.

I know it's difficult for you. I can see how difficult it.

Is, but it's so important for the public to understand that these false confessions happened for a variety of reasons. Not everybody's tortured, but a lot of people are psychologically coerced, or they're tricked, or.

They're you know, confused.

So yeah, in your situation, I don't think anyone would probably behave any differently than you did. But then what a difficult thing to live with too, because knowing as you're going to prison for the rest of your life that you are in a certain way responsible because you know, you admitted something that you didn't do.

But her confession didn't match the facts of the case anyway.

No, she I mean she got a lot of it wrong.

I mean, she didn't get much of it right actually, And that's also a typical thing in these false confession cases. After torturing her for hours, the police were able to extract the taped confession that was riddled with inconsistencies, According to that false confession, Bobby Jean and a woman named Kimberly Leagun had met Samson in the French Quarter. Legan

Stop, she said, Bobby herself shot.

Him once in the chest and once in the head, and then her friend Legan stabbed him over one hundred times. Then they robbed his store and sped off in a stolen Pontiac Grand Prix. Now for the actual facts, Arthur Samson was shot only once in the stomach, Bobby Jean described Samson as being twenty years younger and a half foot taller than he was. And lastly, the Pontiac Grand Prix would not have made a good getaway car, as

Eighteen months?

Eighteen months in jail?

And I know how bad that must have been, because jail's, I mean anywhere are terrible, but in New Orleans it's infamous.

It is.

Yeah, your trial was. It was like a combination of a bad dream and a bad joke. It was because the people who are supposed to be defending you did nothing of the sort.

Yeap, And can you talk about that?

Yeah?

I can't doing my trial. My lawyer wouldn't let me get on a standing and talking my own defense. He fell asleep during the trial.

Your lawyer was asleep.

Yeah, he fell asleep during the I had to wake him up. And he didn't do no opening statements.

No opening statement and statements, no clothing statement.

And one of the jurors stood up in state till the jews. I can I give miss Johnson a fair truck because I had a relationship with this man, the judge said, be seated with the victim. Yeah, and he and now I know because when I was in prison, I took fair leave and I graduated from it. But my lawyer should have called a mistrial when that juror stood up and he didn't say not a word, and.

The judge said, just let's let's please proceed.

I mean, I've I've been doing this work for over twenty five years, and I've heard a lot of stories.

I've never heard that before.

I mean, I've heard stories of jurors that had but I never heard a juror actually stand up in a mid.

She she raised her hand and she said, I can I get this lady a fair trial because I had a relationship with mister Samson.

And so your lawyer was asleep, you're waking him up. He made no opening statement, he made no closing statement, and he didn't object.

To that lady didn't call a mistrial.

Didn't call him miss trial.

He made one objection throughout the trial, to the admission of a photograph. He has a total of eight cross examination questions, the majority of which dealt with the ballistics of the gun. No opening and no closing, and he presented no case theory. He essentially did nothing except Jacob Evan sid Do.

Yeah. I mean he didn't defend you so much as process you.

Right, Even when I was in jail when they accurring him to me, he never came seeing me. The only time I seen him was a court and sometimes when they would have court dates for me, but he wouldn't be there, so they would postpone it to another day.

Oh so that's why I took eighteen months to get to trial. Yeah, because he wouldn't show up.

He wouldn't show up.

Did at any point did you request a different lawyer? Did you even know that you? I didn't know.

I was young and I didn't know, and you probably.

I mean I would think in that situation, you know nothing about the law, right And I would.

Think again, in that situation, that you would be worried if you did request, Well, then you're going to upset the only guy who's on your side right now. Did you have any family in the courtroom with you or anything like that.

No, nobody? Did you all alone?

Yeah?

Jesus Christ.

It took them less than an hour to come back with a guilty verdict.

Yeah.

So when I got to prison, at first, I was because I was angry. I was angry and I was hurt. That's when I was starting. I started fighting, and all this it didn't matter no more because I had It was like, well, Baptisia, you got a life sentence. Now it's nothing you could do. You're going to die in this prison. But then I started praying and praying and praying, and one of the last fight I had, I remember I was in that cell. I just fell to my knees and I said, God, just take my life. I'm

For many long years, both the Promise of Justice Initiative and the Innocence Project of New Orleans worked tirelessly on Bobby Jane's case, investigating leads, studying theden and identifying the inconsistencies in her violently coursed false confession to eventually force the District Attorney's office to offer.

A plea deal.

The deal was this, her first degree murder conviction and life sentence would be vacated, but Bobby jan had to plead guilty to manslaughter and armed robbery in order to be re sentenced to time served. Her attorneys also had to drop any claims that the DA's office did not turn over exculpatory evidence. This was not the outcome that they or anyone who cared about Bobby Jean had hoped for, but it was the only one that.

Would set her free.

It's really sort of the last miserable aspect of this case is the fact that even after all these years, and even after it's been proven that you had nothing to do with this, they still wouldn't admit their mistake, right because they wanted to maintain the conviction. They want to make sure you didn't get anything for it. So the DA's office in New Orleans forced you to take a plea just to sort.

Of so it would be free as the work was the only way. You say, you take this feek or you stay in prison.

Right, I think anybody would do what you did.

And Cat, I want you to jump in here anytime, because I know you're intimately familiar with this case, and I know how proud you are of the work that as I am as a supporter of and It's Project New Orleans. I'm so proud of the work that they did, and I'm so happy. I mean, I saw those pictures when and I posted on my Instagram, which is at It's Jason Flamm as people know, but I posted the pictures of Bobby Jean walking out of prison that day, and I just my heart was breaking or floating.

I was breaking.

My heart was breaking, and I was floating in the air, and it was a whole crazy thing. Can you shine some light on this cat, because this case is bizarre even by our standards.

Yeah. Absolutely.

So it was a case that we worked on for several years. One of the attorneys in our office, Schrell Arnold, worked on it for a long time and it ended up being the Promise of Justice initiative, incredible organized in New Orleans who ended up freeing Bobby Jean and walking her out of prison. But we were there because she was, you know, the first female client who we'd really worked on her case for for for a long time and had a really good lead.

And part of that is.

Because, as you know, Jason, I'm sure you know, women aren't often sentenced to life in prison or long prison sentences, which is what HYPNO does is free innocent life sentence prisoners, and women so often are caught up in things that men do right there, or they harm or.

Kill their domestic abusers.

And so this was you know, really exciting for us, I think because it was the first time that we'd worked with a woman for a number of years, and of course Bobby Jane is just incredible, and you know, I think having her come home, I actually came and hung out with her in Atlanta when she got home, and we went to the aquarium and started learning how to use a cell phone's as I think, we showed you some pictures and it was a.

Really incredible moment.

I can't imagine being incarcerated for forty one years.

No, I mean, when you.

Put that in context, that's I mean, you were only eighteen at the time, so that's twice as long as you had been alive, plus another five years. I mean, it's it's impossible I think for anybody to comprehend who hasn't been through it.

Jesus, who was president when you went to prison?

I don't remember. I don't know.

We have to look Jimmy Carter was president.

Okay, that's got Yeah. I mean it's a lot time.

Most of the people who are listening to the show weren't born yet, and everything was different, and then you come out into a world where everybody's walking around typing on their phones, going everywhere, like there's just everything is different.

When I am my first phone in my hand, I was like, oh my god, kid, she had assumed me everything. I had to turn it on and everything.

First thing she wanted was an Instagram account.

Oh yeah, what is your Instagram account?

I don't know.

She doesn't know, Bobby Jean, twenty eighteen.

So you walk out, I mean, what a difference.

You go in as a scared, brutalized young nineteen twenty year old woman by the eighteen when you went to jail, and you come out as an accomplished, mature, fifty nine year old woman. You walk out into a world that looks almost nothing like it did when you went in.

It was New Orleans. Don't look nothing like it did when I went in.

I mean I almost.

Forgot the names of the streets that I definitely looked at. To me, yeah, I had five five of my Lowys with me, and it was just, I don't know. It was a feeling I never had before.

I used to pray every night, God, you my only witness, and you know I didn't kill nobody, Just open these doors and help me.

Every night I pray that in my robe.

It was so hard for me.

Here we are at the Innocence Network conference.

By the way, how about this conference, Bobby, It's amazing.

Yeah.

So we're here at the Ennistance Never conference with about two hundred designeries and six hundred.

People, activists, social.

Workers, civilians who want to get involved.

Two of them are in the room with us right now.

We have lawyers here, we have experts on everything from you know, false confessions to uh, you name it, and uh, it's an awesome, awesome thing. I mean, people are connected and strategizing and coming up with best practices and helping each other. And yeah, I mean we have we have thirty five new xuneries here that were on stage last night singing and dancing and it was some crazy scene. Man, it's amazing, including you. Yeah, I was, Yeah, I saw you up there.

How to feel to be up there, Bobby Jane, It was a feel good they feel good.

For you to connect with the other exogneries. What is that experience?

It's just like because I just thought, I said, I know that many people there's both convictions and it made me feel good to know that I was I was. I wasn't the only one.

Oh no, hell no.

But I didn't know at the time, but it really felt good. And to know how much loved show we showed each other.

M hmm. Yeah, we ain't done yet. We're going to be loving on you.

For the well, for the rest of the time, but especially the lass next twenty four hours that we're all going to be here together. It's going to be a amazing and I know that people are are so glad that you're here.

It's amazing.

It's amazing, right, Yes, yeah, I mean, I'm so honored to be here and be a part of this movement. I will tell anybody who's listening that, you know, I call it selfish altruism because I consider it a privilege and an honor to get to be around people like yourself and to be able to make some small difference is you know, it's the most rewarding thing in my life. I mean, you know, obviously you know I'm a father

And what gives you joy?

Now?

Do you have any joy in your life now?

I have enjoy my life now because it's like living where I live. I can come and go with that. Please. Anybody could come get me and like take me wherever they want to take me, Like if they want to take me out there or whatever, I could do it. And they have a lot of activities because I'm because I'm because of my age, they have a lot of activities for old and I always attended. They have church service. I always attended and they treat me good.

And what is it that you do once a month, Bobby Jean, Oh.

I'll go to Georgia's Innocent Project. I'm a member of the George's Innocent Project and I never missed a meeting. I'm always there. Yeah.

They're really lovingly taken her into the exonery meetings that happen once a month there so she gets to hang out with other wrongfully incarcerator to people who live in Georgia.

Yeah, I see you got the shirt on you go?

Where the Georgia Innocent Project shirt? I say, yeah, I don't have one for all if.

No wear the Judge one, I need to get your adjuster shirt.

I know I don't have a justice shirt. I need one.

I think we can arrange that. Okay, you got that one, I got it? Okay, perfect teamwork. Makes the dream work.

So this is the part of the show that is my favorite part because this is the part of the show where I get to first of all, I thank.

You, we thank you for having.

Me, Bobby Jean Johnson, and Kat Forrester. Thank you for coming and sharing, especially you, Bobby, obviously Bobby Jeen for I know how difficult it is to talk about these things, and it's so important that you're here. So you know, thank you on behalf of me and all my listeners

I'm just so glad that we have to get her home.

And I was thinking about it because we were at the aquarium last night for the Innocence Network dinner, and we went to the aquarium right after she got out, and to see the joy on her face, you know, at like, you know, seeing very cool fish was just unparalleled, and I'm just so glad to have been able to experience that with her and to see, you know, how many new things she gets to explore in this life now that she's a free, a free woman.

Yeah, it was amazing to me. Because the aquirm I would always see to the show it on TV. I used to say, I want to go there. I want to go there. So when Kad had me, she said, you want to go to the a Querrum. And when she did it, it was like a joy, A lot of joy just jumped on my face. I said, yeah, I want to go. I want to go, Kid, I want to go see him. And when I came, it was so beautiful. I just it was so amazing out here. Well, Kat led me all the way through and she was there.

Client services specialists.

Yes, she has been great, no matter what. If she can't call me back. At the time, she text me back and say, I'll call you in a few minutes. Just hold on. And but then it has been great and it's and I'm happy to be home.

I'm happy. I'm happy, more happy now than I've ever been in my life. I didn't I never knew so much love and stuff, but no I do. And it's it's great. It's just that they took a lot of away from me. They took everything away from me for nothing but something I didn't even do. I lost everything. All my youth was gone. And I just want to thank you Jason for having me.

Wow, we're gonna be here for you too. You have a whole bit new family now. You got eight hundred family members here now, and you've got a lot more that are listening to the show. And so you're you're a brave and strong and amazing woman, and we're gonna support you in.

Every way we can.

So so again, thank you for being here, Thanks again for listening.

I'm gonna go try to recover. That's what I'm gonna do. And uh and and we'll see you next week. I'm wrong for conviction.

I have some devastating news to share. Bobby Jean Johnson, who I recorded this haunting episode with, passed away. It was unexpected. I'm no doctor, but I can say that she died of the abuse and neglect that she suffered at the hands of the State of Louisiana during her forty one years of wrongful incarceration. Bobby was an angel on earth. She was just a beautiful, damaged soul who wanted nothing but to be loved and to help others. And she was out less than eighteen months when she died.