#278 Jason Flom with Walter Goudy

shooter as shorter than the other. Months later, Walter Goudy was put the same after hours club in the same car and picked up by Detective Rodney Cummings, who put him into a one man show up where Walter was mistaken for the passenger side shooter his half brother Romeo. Despite sixteen alibi witnesses, Walter was charged with the murder, but between Walter's overly suggestive I d and his strong alibi, the charges were dropped, which did not sit well with

Detective Cummings. When Kaytie Harvell was later i deed in a live lineup by three witnesses as the driver's side shooter, he told Cummings that Walter was the driver's side shooter, not him. While placing Romeo on the passenger's side. Detective Cummings ran for District Attorney one and reindicted Walter. Despite Romeo's confession naming Kiti and himself, the state still forged

ahead with a prosecution based on conflicting witnesses. Almost all misidentified Walter as his half brother on the passenger's side, except Kaiti, who placed Walter in his place on the driver's side. Walter was sentenced to one hundred and ten years in prison. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction today's episode. This is almost like the cartoon of the Ping Pong match, where your head just going

back and forth. You're like, wait, what what Like you just got gonna believe the way this case unfolded and how the system, I'm gonna be generous to say, made mistake after mistake and then compounded their mistakes, and then even when the mistakes were corrected, they made sure to

correct the correction to make sure the mistakes. I mean, it's I'm at a loss for words on this one, I gotta tell you, but we're here with the man who survived this ordeal, Walter Gaudy Walter I'm so sorry you're here because of why you're here, but I'm really honored that you're here to tell your story. Appreciate, appreciate. And with him is his civil attorney Richard Dvorak. Richard, it's your first time on the show, and I certainly

hope it's not your last. And I know you've done great work on this case in particular, and I'm really really delighted to have you on the show. Thank you for the invitation. I appreciate it. So this is an Indiana story, which we're hearing more and more about lately, as more wrongful convictions and prosecutors conducted police corruption are being wreck ignized, not only in Indiana but all over the country. But before we get into how that affects your case, Walter, I want to go back to before

all of that happened. Now, you were born in Chicago, but you grew up out West. Is that right? Okay? I grew up in Los Angeles, myself and my three symbtoms. My mom's up and moved moved away from my father's. But I grew up in Los Angeles doing the heyday of the gang banging and the drugs. You know, I mean, that's all we had to do to get by. You mentioned your siblings. Now two of them, Lamont and Romeo, were deeply affected by this incident. Romeo, of course, was

directly involved. Can you tell us about him, never smoked a joint nothing in his life, He tried it, stuff on that. He's a real cool guy. He really loyal, but he gets angry really quick. Romeo is the one that you go get with us drama. They want to fight out here, We're going to get Romeo. Growing up, we both took marcel arts, both took boxing. We both started gang banging out there. No father figure are male

figures consists of the older guys in the streets. We didn't had the people that tells you you could be somebody. And the guys doing well out there worth selling drugs exactly exactly. We see the guy with the big Cadillac h he always got the money, you got the jury, got the girls slock here. We want to be like that. Me being the oldest I felt and coming upon me to get out there and make something for my siblings. You know what I mean. I saw setting drugs really young,

like thirteen years old. So I'll get a hold to Indiana. I say what, I'll turn one. A friend of mine was out there and tell me, uh, how much the drugs is going for? You know? So I came out there and visit and found out, Yeah, yeah, it's more expensive Indiana than they are in California. So you saw this as an opportunity and started taking the risk. And you know, there was a lot of risk, let's face it, of transporting the drugs from California to Indiana in order

to reap the reward of a higher profit margin. And despite if you arrest including one in St. Louis from marijuana possession, that had an effect. As it turns out, on this case, the risk had paid off, at least temporarily. You made a lot of money, owned the home, had multiple cars, and we're investing in legitimate businesses. You had

your own nightclub. But before we go any further, can you tell us a little bit about this one character who you met in Indiana with the interesting name Kydie Harvell. I don't had new Kydi like five months before this all this happen. Titi is Okay, Laura Smith, which is my girlfriend at the time. Her brother was locked up and her brother best friend was Katie Harville. Me and her brother became real cool. Like my brother in law. He let me know one day, man, my god cat

get out. Now, don't you look out for him? Kydie got out. I'll take him shopping. I'll take him. My mond under my wing started to hang with me all the time. You know, we become best of friends. I felt that he really was a genuine guy. Man, I just did I don't know. I don't know how I got sold to see And that's what really the problem. My brother got me now because my brother didn't even know him. My brother just called himself having his back

because he's my guy. So now he finds stuff in prison a hundred ten years now, we're trying to help my guy. We turned out to be a scumbat, you know, I mean, for lack of a better term, right, I'm sure you probably feel some, you know, a degree of guilt for even putting those two together. But your brother did what he did, and at least he came forward instead of lying about you like Kaitie did. Now there's one more thing to cover, which bears heavily on this case.

Kaitie is about five eight look and looks nothing like you and Romeo, who are both over six ft tall, and let's face it, you share a mother, your family. You guys look similar. We do. We get a lot even to this dayca were both bowed now, so we

really get it now. And this is important because it really gums up the identification process in this case, because you have people identifying you in your brother Romeo's role on the passenger side of the car, and then Kiti and perhaps the police tried to create and capitalize on some confusion around there being two shooters, one short, one tall on which side of a car. So let's get to that. The night of October three three, you were

hosting a party at your home in India. Opus now tell us how the rest of the night played out, and Richard, feel free to jump in whatever you want. So October three, I thought a party in Annapolis. Nice party, big party, not the way you're smoking, drinking and hanging party of miss party. During the party, my brother and Harveil they left went to the club and it was like thirty four or five minutes they go to Anderson, Indiana. Altercation occurred outside of the club. I later found out

it was in one of my cars. At the time. I had like six cars. I'm ready in the cars. The altercation occurred with Kayati and the victim Mr McCleod soon occurred and roam your assistant in the student. It had to do with a card jack and that's the story Cordie made up. I later found out through my brother and again again I had several cars and I wouldn't need to, you know, be involved in like that. But they had this incident. They agreed not to tell

me about it because I'll be upset. I absolutely nothing about this case. So there was a shooting at a club called the Oasis and Anderson, Indiana. There were two shooters ran up on a car that was parked in the parking lot outside of the Oasis, and one shooter was a shorter person and he was up on the driver's side and there was a taller suspect on the

passenger side. The occupants of the vehicle were A Marvin McLeod who was in the driver's seat, Damon Nunn who was in the passenger seat, and then Jail Barkley who was in the back seat. So Mr McLeod unfortunately and tragically was shot and died and Mr Nunn was shot, but he survived and end up being a witness in this case, so there was no suspect. Originally, this went on for several months with no suspect. There was some heat from the Double A c P and other organizations,

and there's some pressure to solve the case. So fast forward in February, Walt he was actually at the Oasis and there was someone an employee of Oasis, who said, oh, that person you know looks familiar. They thought that maybe he might have been one of the people involved. Now, that person never testified a trial, never identify him or anything.

That just that's what got their attention. And obviously it'd be pretty logical to show up at the place where you did the shooting in the same car, no less, in the same car, in the same car some there playing poo and here comes to officers as step. So I was identified as being someone who's evolving a suit in October, which we wouldn't come out to the station

for a lineup. So at this point we've already established that you knew nothing about this crime, but you did something that later really seemed to get under the skin of Detective Rodney Cummings. You gave him an alias James Benneman in order to avoid the war that I mentioned earlier out of St. Louis from marijuana possession. So continue, you go down to the station for this lineup, right. I go to the station. They put me in a room by myself. There's a one way mirror glass. He

come back in the area. He tells me I was identified, possible and possible. They don't. I'm not arrested, but they put me in the jail suit like four or five minutes later, just time to put me in a full lineup with five people. This time me and five people, because the witness knew four of the other people it was in the lineup. The people that's identified, it's inport reports. So the second lineup was basically pointless. It's almost as suggestive as the one man show up, if that's even possible.

So nonetheless, the witness from the backseat, Jill Barkley, identified you as the taller passenger side shooter, which kind of makes sense since you look like your own half brother. But then you were released. Maybe they kind of knew that their lineup was overly suggested. I don't know, I mean, why were you released at that time that cart would me still be an adamant that it wasn't me willing to submit to a polygraph. Okay, all cell phone numbers, I gave my page you none. I gave my address

to well, I'm located at all that. So he told me he was willing to let me go this on Friday, he's willn't let me go. Come back money when he gets some more witnesses. That he put me in more lineups, had me agree to come back Monday. When I agree, I agree. But however, I gave you it is name because I had warrant by the St. Louis had marijuana on the highway, So I gave him a fake name and they ran my princes. I wasn't going nowhere. So by Monday you knew I was because you went on

ran the prints. You knew I was. No. You know I had to warrant. Yeah, you're not who you say you were. So Monday I call him, I said, I ain't got translation, can you come pick me up. I don't worry about what being touch Two day they came, kicked the door into my girlfriend house, arrested me, did another lineup. They tried to do an official lineup, and

they do a second lineup. This one didn't involve people that she knew, but by that time, the it's ridiculous because she obviously know who who she picked out originally, and then they need to charge Walter with the murder. But Walter was at a party in Indianapolis, and he had sixteen al of my witnesses, and you had, let's face it, you had no clue about what happened to Anderson.

But your brother, who was locked up in Arizona unrelated charge, had found out that you were now in jail for a murder in which he played a role, and he eventually officially confessed before you went to trial. Unfortunately, that confession was never heard by your jury. But could you tell us about when you first found out about your brother's involvement. When I first got locked up, I was in there maybe two weeks. No idea why I'm here. This sounds crazy. I know I haven't done that much

wrong in the world. I know, I love you things. But so Romeo calls my girlfriends, my daughter's mother, when she told about locked up for murder. He liked for murder, like, yeah, they say he saw somebody Anderson you're like, you recognize, like he's playing my lawyer. Eythy. Now my Laury comes of visibly, big old smile on his face. I know what it thinks you. I said, what it was your brother and our veil because my brother's in Arizona locked up.

I know, I've been on the phonower tomorrow morning. Okay, so this is and maybe March, but he doesn't officially come forward until December, which is after you were re indicted and about to go to trial. And let's be clear, Romeo gave that confession against his own self interest. He ended up with a hundred and ten years sentence. So I mean, talk about it's going against your own self interest.

But it finally made sense of your misidentification because, like we said, you too are half brothers, and you do look alike. But we're getting ahead of ourselves here. At this point, all you officially had in your defense which was enough to drop the charges was sixteen alibi witnesses placing you in Indianapolis, the fact that your identification was overly suggestive, and then Jill Barkley, the backseat passenger witness, had spotted kydie Hartveld in Indianapolis and reported it the

Courts of Reports. Toddy was in a Value City one day in Indianapolis and the chick that was in the back seat of the car when the suit happened. Seeing they locked eyes on each other and she watched him as he walked out and she like, that's the guy. So this is in her in the report. She mentioned that because when they gave a lineup, She's like, that's the guy right there in the Value City. That's you know, that's the shooter. That's the suit that was on the

driver side of the car. Right So Jill Barclay's identification of Kiti happened in March of ninety four, along with two other witnesses, Jackie Barclay and Latania Young. Latania had at one point I did Walter as a driver's side shooter, but in March of ninety four she was positive it was Kiti. So maybe Latania impeaches herself, but Jackie and Jill have been pretty consistent. So dislikely played heavily into your charges being dropped by the prosecutor at the time,

Bill Lawler. So then you were extradited to St. Louis for the marijuana possession warrant Rodney Cummings and his partner Steve Navier. They did not agree with this decision to drop the charges. One will let it go. He didn't want to let it go to him to this day. You think I got away to him, I got away with murder. I don't know how I got away this nine years for one but two out how to do it at all. His beef with me was that I deceived him with the name. He felt that I played him.

This is where that, this is where to use. He said, you played me, but fake name or not. The prosecutor was simply following the evidence, not some personal vendetta. He was doing his job. In other words, So while Cummings continued to investigate the case, Walter remained on his mind. Now, despite this positive idea, Kiti didn't get picked up until June of ninety four, an unrelated burglary charge and an interview that was not even discovered until civil litigation. Kiti

denied being involved and gave a bogus alibi. Now, perhaps after looking into that, Cummings brought Kity in for a videotaped live lineup in September ninety four, and once again and he was positively ideed as the driver's side shooter

by the three witnesses. Now Katie decided to save himself, and despite the conflict between Walter's height and that of the driver's side shooters description, Kittie Harvell, who stood only five eight, said that it wasn't him who was the shorter driver's side shooter, but it was Walter, who is not five eight but again over six ft tall. Hard to make that mistake and snitched on Romeo as the

tallest shooter on the passengers side. But now with this statement and your charges being dropped, there was a dynamic created between the then prosecutor Bill Lawler and Detective Cummings. And Roddy Cummings happened to be a lawyer. He had gone to night school while he was a police officer to become a lawyer, and he took it upon himself to run for the prosecutor's office. It's election season, it's the fall of ninety four, and lo and behold, he wins.

Detective Cummings now becomes Prosecutor Cummings. And what does Prosecutor Cummings do? He turns around and reindites Walter for the charges that the prior prosecutor dismissed, so now we have the detective becoming the prosecutor to prosecute a case where

he was once the detective. The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode of rawful Conviction and of the Last Mile organization, which provides business and tech training to help incarcerated individuals successfully and permanently re enter the workforce. The Pacers Foundation is committed to improving the lives of Hoosiers across Indiana, supporting organizations that are dedicated primarily to

helping young people and students. For more information on the work of the Pacers Foundation or the Last Bile Program, visit Pacers Foundation dot org or the Last Smile dot org. When Cummings reindites Walter, it's on the theory that the two shooters are Walter and his brother Romeo Lee, and

Kaytie was a witness to all this. Part of the problem, though, is that the state witnesses, some of whom identified Walter is one of the possible shooters, had identified Kayde Harvel as the shooter, and that was something that would have

completely messed up debt theory. So what happens is they go to trial and Mark Mader in the original trial attorney suspected that he was not being given all the police reports, and he did a motion to get the police reports and a second motion reconsider a motion for in camera inspection of the prosecutor's file to see if there were some police reports that he wasn't getting well.

The judge denied it, and Walter went to trial without knowing that the state's witnesses had identified Kaydie Harvel, another state's witness, as one of the shooters. But what further makes it absolutely impossible to Walter was was one of the shooters was the fact that during this prosecution, before he went to trial, Romeo, his half brother, finally came forward and admitted that he was the second shooter, that he and Kaide did the shooting. So we have our

two shooters now. That makes all the sense in the world. Because the physical descriptions in this case were that a shorter gentleman was on the driver's side and a taller gentleman was on the passenger side. Well, Walter and Romeo are both tall and they look alike. Kaydie Harvell is short. So rather than go on what was the truth? And the truth is that Romeo lead to the shooting on the passenger side and Kadi did the shooting on the driver's side instead. The theory at Walter's trial was that

Walter did it with Romeo and Kaide was just a witness. Yeah, this one with instructions. Right. So you have this shooter, Romeo admitting, which is highly unusual before the trial for Walter's trial, that he did it, and he not only said that Kitty was the other shooter, but that Walter wasn't there. He's a guy with firsthand knowledge and a lot of everything to lose, right, And unfortunately, the jury never heard the Romeo Lee confession because Maynard couldn't figure

out how to get into evidence. The confession never came in. So one of the single most important piece of evidence in this whole freaking case, which was later used to convict Romeo, that jury never even heard it. It's insane, let's face it. And in case this wasn't enough, the idea that this judge didn't feel that there was any need for the defense to see the evidence from the police files. Richard, help you out, well, this is another

unique thing about this case, unique to Indiana. Under Indiana law, the Indiana Supreme Corps actually ruled this and it still exists today. Police reports are considered work product and they do not have to be tendered by the state to the defense. Now you have to ask, well, they still have to comply with the United States Constitution, they have to comply with Brady, So how do they how do

they do that? Well, I took several depositions in this case as part of the civil matter, and I asked several prosecutors, and none of them had a good answer for how that happens. I mean, how do you tender exculpatory material that's in a police report without tendering the police report. So that's another aspect of all this is that they were withheld under the fig leaf that this was work product, which actually had some sort of legal

fig leaf to cover it. Now, what's interesting is that we know from later on that the withheld evidence was the viewing of the witnesses of Harvell as the other shooter. So this was a videotape. Well, under any in the law, a videotape cannot be considered work product, but police reports ken. So the police reports that were exculpatory were tendered to the prosecutors. They weren't Cummings because Cummings had to recuse himself. But the trial prosecutors had the police reports, they had

the exculpatory evidence, but they didn't have the videotape. And why was that Well, because back in election season, in September of before Walter was reindicted, Cummings took the videotape out of evidence, signed it out of evidence and it was returned back to the police locker back and guess what the date was that that was returned back into the evidence locker. It was the exact same afternoon that the judge denied the in camera inspection of the file.

The prosecutors would not have had the fig leaf of not giving over the lineup video. They did have the fig leaf of not giving over the police reports. So under this work product rule, they were covered from sharing the police reports about Kittie being identified as the driver's side shooter. But the videotape of that identification procedure, which would fall under non work product evidence, was technically not hidden because Cummings, who had recused himself, had taken it

out of the evidence locker. So now two of the most important critical piece of evidence in this case that point to who actually committed this crime. We're out of play. So Walter was charged with the murder as well as attempted carjacking and robbery. You know, those other two charges related to the motive that Kittie Harvell had invented, A motive that made no sense considering that Walter owned six or seven cars already and had more than enough money

to buy whatever he wanted. Now, David Puckett and Paula Mariice Roberts were the prosecutors in this case, and Walter was represented by Mark Maynard. So I'm almost afraid to ask what upened at the trial. At the trial, the state presented the eyewitness testimony, so the incredibly suggestive I witness identification came in against Walter. Kaid testified against Walter, and unfortunately the jury never heard the Romeo Lee confession, even though he came forward a couple of months before

the trial. Cummings indicted Romeo for the murder, but that happened right before Walter's trial, and when they tried to call Romeo as a witness, he took the fifth and the confession never came into evidence. Now, that would have been incredibly helpful to Walter as well, for the jury to know that his brother, who looks like him and everyone said looks like him, confessed to doing it with Kaide,

the state's witness. And of course at trial, the jury also didn't know that Kaydie Harboll had been identified by the other state's witnesses as one of the shooters. So the jury heard Kadi identify Walter as the driver's side shooter and Romeo as the passenger's side shooter, but then the rest of the state's witnesses identified Walter as the

passengers side shooter because he looks like Romeo. And it's never pointed out the jury that Kitty was identified as a driver's side shooter because the prosecution kept that to themselves. It's too bad the evidence that would have exposed the lies and made it all make sense, all of it was either hidden or not admitted as evidence. No. Now, something happened outside of the trial that I need to mention here. Walter's brother, Lamont, who we haven't really talked about.

On October three, he was at the party and Kittie pulled him into the situation. In his statement to Cummings, so as soon as Lamont landed to testify on Walter's behalf, Lamont was arrested. He never had to testify against Walter, but he was coerced into a plea bargain corroborating Kitie's statement. So this was not part of trial, but it kept his alibi testimony out of trial. What about the other

alibi witnesses? So Walter presented several alibi witnesses, you know, but this is not something where you know, he's on on video, but he is at a party with you know, friends, and one of the witnesses they did sort of trip her up in that she testified she took a flight and she was confused about which airline she took, and

there was some impeachment about that. One of the other reasons why I believe that Walter was convicted and why they didn't believe the alibi was because one of the alibi witnesses, a woman by the name of Linda Phelps, you know, happened to be friends with Kaydie Harvel and before trial she came off of her statement that Walter

was at at this party, which undercut his alibi defense. Well, the problem is there was a police report that was withheld from evidence that indicated that before she flipped, Kaid had a conversation with her, which then miraculously then she

comes off of her alibi. So really anything like that that can sort of chip away at an alibi when you're staring at five eye witnesses, you know, and no, no confession that was introduced, no evidence the eye witnesses were identifying the other states witnessed Kittie r L And

it's hard for a jury to overcome that. Ultimately, Walter was convicted by the jury of murder, attempted murder, attempted carjacking, and attempted robbery in December twenty one, sentenced about a month later on January seventy six to a hundred and ten years in prison. So a life sentence. Yeah, that was wow. Jeez. Let's go to the verdict first, then we go to citizen because both of them was really painful.

So they found me guilty. I'm I'm I'm living, to say the least, very perplexed about not only all the money I spent in it, not only the fact that you're innocent, you know, it's it's the fact that, like where is justice sentizens Like thirty days later, citizen came up. I didn't go. You just found me good to someone. I don't want to hear nothing else I got to say, so,

they said. My lawyer to the deal. He said, I need you to be in court for I can make this motion most to just miss the verdict, and a'most for the judge to step aside. After that, if you decided to leave, find you let the judge you know you want to leave, It's okay, I agree to that. I go over there, I walk in. The judge makes it loves before the post. Citizen. Is anything you'd like to say, Mr County, Yes I would, Johnny, I would like to let you the court that prosecy right there,

my lawyer, my prime Ustcar, everybody here. No, I'm not guilty this crime, I said. I don't care. It doesn't matter how much time you give me. I'm a spend every day of it proved minuses. I said, this time, I don't want to hear the verdict. I'd like to go back to myself. Whatever time you're gonna give me, you're gonna give me, I don't care if you gave me sixty or you gave me hunt the ten. And

I'm not good for none of it. In sixteen years of being in prison, sixteen and a half years for me that he lived the lifestyle I lived in all that. I didn't have no one fight in sixteen half years here, not one on My beef is not with no inmate, my beef with the system. I did my whole time law line, berries, digging, in researching cases. Man was my

second home. I didn't get into the prison politics and the things that going on in prison, with the games and the playing cars and this shoe dice and and smoke sick wrests time. But when they stopped smoking cigarettes in there, they gave us heads up that they're gonna quit. And the August they told January first, no more cigarettes in Mexican City Prison nine. When they cut out the cigarettes, I saw the opportunity that we got the black market. What I do. I took a whole bunch of cartons stash.

I dig holes everywhere. I had hold, dug all around the prison. Why hold I had used to work in the kitchen, I had it. I had cards all in the ceiling up in the man. I stasped all the way to January and look I didn't break him out of January. I didn't break up my tolight April mate. But when I broke him out, WHOA, we talked about a hundred dolls of pack of cigarettes. You talk five for one cigarette. They take the one cigarette down and break it down in five cigarettes two dollars apiece. So

that's what that's really what I got. The bulk of my money for my attorney fees, I paid for like four attorneys in there. But the bulk of my attorney fees came from tobacco sales. Ain't lots of tobacco sales, So tobacco sales made up to walter Gallery defense fund. But you also did a lot of your appeals on your own pro say, And it's crazy, though not unbelievable in our system, but still crazy that with how all of the evidence had come out during your brother's trial,

even then, it's still took another sixteen years. The Romeoly trial was the unraveling of Walter's conviction. Ultimately, although it took a long time, the state put on a case against Romeo Lee heavily reliant on his confession. And remember that confession was that Kaide and Romeo did the did

the shooting. But you know, they presented the same evidence that they presented against Walter, and that's with the eyewitnesses putting Walter as the passenger side shooter, even though romeo confession was that he was on the passenger side, So there was some something for him to argue, at least at that trial. But it was during that trial that during the cross examination of Steve Napier, they learned that Kaydie Harvel was identified by these states witnesses as the

other shooter. So it wasn't enough to you know, cause a knock guilty and Romeo's trial, but the attorney for Romeo Lee did give that evidence to Mark Maynard. I should also note that the lineups Natalie consisted of three of the state's witnesses identifying Kaydie Harvel as the shooter.

But Damon Nunn, who was the attempt murder victim and was an eyewitness who identified Walter as one of the shooters, um when he was shown the lineups with Kaydie Harvell, he identified a filler in that lineup as one of the shooters. So obviously that's going to destroy Nun's credibility or reliability as well. When he identifies a Filler as one of the shooters. Romeo's lawyer recovered his evidence. It

turned it over to recipes to Saron Clark. A matter of fact, she didn't have to do that because she had been watching my whole trial or my lawyers were really cool, so she knew very much about the case. So she's like, wait a minute, Mark never had this. This is gonna help mysticality. So now Romeo Lee's attorney gives Mark Maynard these withheld police reports. Mark Maynard had been representing Walter and direct appeal as well. He tried to get this into the record on direct appeal. That

didn't work. My lawyer, he says it this pre course and trying to mend my pew. Now, mind you end appeal here, lest that the prosecutor withheld the sculptor evidence here leaves this without having a proof. Now he got the proof, mind you, When he first got the proof, he said on them for two weeks because he dealing it with his father's death, so he weren't doing nothing. And I understood that. You know, he had to do with father's death and all that. So here goes our time.

Now when you send it up to the courts as you send it up, the decisions coming down already denied, and the decision you deny it because you said that he's a legend that this happened, but he had no proof of it. But the proof is on your desk now, but you are denied it. The court said, no, you're gonna have to a post conviction. So Walter is left

alone here. He has to file a pro se post conviction petition saying that these Brady materials should give him a new trial, and he was appointed a new council public defender named Sharon Faye. Now you would think that when the original judge would hear about all these shenanigans, Walter would have been immediately given a new trial and never prosecuted again. But no, it took six years and an evidentry hearing before the judge finally denied the post

conviction petition. And then you would think an appellate court would step in and say, well, that's wrong, that didn't happen. Indiana Supreme Court denied. We'll go to federal court. Federal courts have to take this seriously, right, Nope, pro sed federal habeas corpus petition denied. If you don't have a degree, they don't honor up nobody like you and me just coming there and just know all a lot to them, like it's a slap in the face for was it with the school all them years? Bus they but to

get the degree? You're gonna come here reciting all the same thing. They know they're gonna honor you know. As one of our guest host, Patrick Presley likes to say, pro say gets no play. They will rarely, not never, but rarely ever gave you the time of day if you don't have a lawyer. So how does this turn around?

What happened next? His last shot is his pro say attempt to get this overturned in the Seventh Circuit, And thankfully the Seventh Circuit appointed him counsel from a big law firm, and this attorney was able to convince the Seventh Circuit that he received an unfair trial. On the Seventh Circuit reversed his conviction after Walter did about sixteen years wrongfully in prison. It never ceases to amaze me that the defendant could present such clear Brady violations exculpatory

materials that completely destroy the state's case at trial. And prove their claims of actual innocence along with ineffective assistance of council claims. I mean Mark Maynard even told Walter to pursue that claim since he was in fact ineffective at getting that confession and the identifications of Katie as the driver's side shooter into court. So with that evidence,

no reasonable juror would have convicted Walter. Yet every court along the way bent over backwards, fell over themselves to ignore this wrongful conviction in favor of I can only guess here the finality of judgment and the sacrosag jury verdict not to mention covering for their colleagues in the prosecutor's office. And in fact, Cummings is currently seeking a seventh term and running unopposed in I don't know what could be done about that, but it really is sickening.

So sixteen years it took for a court to finally accept the evidence that they used to convict his brother Romeo in another trial that was shortly after his own. It's just disgusting, let's face it, there's no other word for it. But this ruling came down in May, and your lawyer at that time was Andrew Curitas. Remember Richard is Walter's civil attorney. But Walter tell us, what do you remember about that moment when you got the news. Oh, this is one of the best days in my life.

Right here, I get a legal male may fil down order come down. You got is to give him a new trial or release him. Now, I think I'm gonna go home any days, but they're still playing hardball. I'm in, honey. I mean, I'm counting down days. Every every day I'm watup thinking for the common Dame. Any day. Now, I think they're gonna say, you know what, let him go on a hunted and twentieth day. I got to be going home this morning. I wouldn't gave my phone to

my neighbor. I gave all my all my commissary way and gave anything design a twenty day. I ain't the trial. I asked my neighbor back to my let me see my phone, like quick call the lawyer. He said, be patient, I work with and talk to him right now if we file the targets and said they're gonna take his trial. He said he talked to the prosecutor and asked the prosecutor, what did you see in this case that you said,

I didn't see nothing. That's the problem. They just handled the case, and I didn't want to just drop it. So the Madison County prosecutor was Rodney Cummings. When this thing was reversed and sent back to the lower court for a new trial, the judge, you know, ordered that a new prosecutor's office should look at it, and so an independent prosecutor named Barry Brown from a different county looked at this and he was the one who finally

decided to drop the charges. And I will say that Rodney Cummings was quoted as saying at the time that Mr Brown didn't have the guts to retry Walter whoa the guts right after the I don't even know how to dignify that with words. After the evidence that they had at the time of trial completely shredded this guy's theory, he's still holding onto it almost three decades later. You know, if it's not too late, I really wish somebody would

run against him. You could hit him over the head with his own words all the way into the prosecutor's office this fall. But we're running out of time. The citizens of Madison County really do deserve better. Walter certainly did so Brown dismissed the charges in January. I remember January thirteen, two times twelve, like I remember like it was yesterday. I got that phone call from Richard let me know all Chares dismissed. We ready to go with the loss, and he found my lawsuit the very next day.

He had already been pairing for the lawsuit because he was the one laurder that was willing to take my case without it being all the way resolved. He bled the case. So thanks to Richard, the civil suit was filed immediately, But of course these things are rarely resolved immediately. At the time, Indiana didn't even have a compensation statute.

Now now they do, and there's something not so good about it because it forces innocent men and women to waive their right to civil litigation if they accept the compensation. To me, this just adds insult to injury, and I hope that it's corrected soon, along with that ridiculous work product rule, which we should just call call it legalized

or legitimized Brady violations. I believe there's a movement on both sides of those issues that we fully support that So as far as Walters civil suit is concerned, the U. S. District Court denied it, but in May the Seventh Circuits stepped up again and reinstated the lawsuits. So in April Walter settled his lawsuit. But let's face it, there's no amount of money that would ever make up for the

lost time with loved ones. First, I want to say, I think it's very unfair that he's prosecutor uh and detectives are able to pull something like this off and get away with just giving a little bit of money and it's over, you know. I mean, like you get some years like my I would imprison the new father. My oldest was number three years old. I came by to grandfather. I can't get them the years back. I dontay how much money you getting there, can't get them back, kids, graduations,

their birthdays. I can't. I can't get that back there. It actually destroyed my ability to be a really affective father. Their minds are made up already in life with life means to them. I don't even know what to say. I mean, I can only imagine through the lens of my relationship with my own kids, and it just breaks my heart. What about your brothers. I mean, Romeo is still inside. I'm sure you'll probably take this opportunity to visit them. But what about Lamont, the brother that they

coerced into a plea that corroborated Kitie statement. Do you think you'd be able to put that behind you and reconnect? Listen my fluid the test file for me and the rest of him on the spot and said that Katie said he's involved and just had a charge on him. He said in the jail when they found me guilty, and I'm no one with the money now, so he

don't have a lawyer in the no money. He didn't want to take the chance the game police bargain of five years probation to say that what Katie said was correct, that he was there and he watched it. He didn't have test fied to this because I already convicted. I'm already gone. Matter of fact, nobody in the family has seen her from m since then, because it was all piste off of him for doing that, like why would you do that? It's almost like you coroberating Katie story.

But I understood his part. I haven't been able to talk to him and let him know dude, listen, I'm not mad at you. I understood that's a big chance to take right there, and he took the police bargain that he Since nobody in the family seen him, we don't know where he at. Again, I just reaching out to leave you. No, I wasn't mad at gave up on reaching out because I don't want to think I was reaching out trying to look for you or nothing. You know what I mean, Like it ain't it ain't

that serious. I'm just havy to be home. Wow. So Lamont or if anyone knows Lamont, please let him know. Make the most out of the time you both have left. We're gonna have Walter socials linked in the bio reach out to him. Walter also has a podcast that will link to and with that we're going to go to closing arguments. This is of course a part of the show where I thank you both for joining us and sharing your story. And now I'm going to turn my microphone off, kick back in my chair and just listen

to anything you feel is left to be said. Richard, let's start with you and Walter take us on home. So there's been a lot of talk about you know, Rodney Cummings, and people may have the impression that, well, this is sort of a one bad apple situation. But the real problem here is that time and again there were numerous people involved in the in the judicial system

who could have stopped this. From the judge initially who could have forced the review of the prosecutor's file so that the withholding wouldn't have happened in the first place, to the trial prosecutors going along with this withholding, to the trial judge again once they learned about this withholding not correcting this wrong. To the Indiana appellate courts who could have stopped this, To the Indiana Supreme Court who could have stopped this. The federal Havius Corpus judge could

have stopped this. We shouldn't have to rely on the second highest court in in in the land of Federal court to right these wrongs. Uh. These should be corrected immediately in the lower courts, but they're not, unfortunately, and in Indiana, not only in Walter's case, but in in in other Indiana cases. Time and again, these wrongs are

not corrected, UH in a timely manner. The people who come as crossed these wrong for convictions need to step up and not just allow it to happen, and they need to do it quickly to make sure it gets done in a timely matter, not sixteen years later. I do appreciate you all give me the opportunity now I feel that. And no amount of money they give me, no amount of money they gave me, no mount of money to give me form me on now. It's gonna take back all the years this spunk kids life. That's

the biggest thing for me. My kids, like, uh, anything they do for me now, it's gonna be for my baby securing their futures, you know what I mean. Make sure they got the right account set up, put insurances on us if something happened, make sure I got insurance. So make sure my family don't have to be out there with a bucket on the corner trying to bury me. If you know when I when I passed, I went out.

If I passed, I'm gonna pass someday, but when I do, to make sure they ain't gotta struggle in and try to go and go fund me. I didn't went through all this in that boxing there to get out and die and can't be buried out here. You know what I mean. I know what it is to appreciate. I wake up appreciate life. I wake up appreciate my freedom. I really do. I wake up appreciate everything about my freedom. And I'm free. I'm still free. I don't care if I ain't got it right now. I got to dine

in my pocket. I am free. Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Claver, and Kevin Wardis, with research by Lila Robinson. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On all three platforms.

You can also follow me on both TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason flom Raleful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one one on