In the early seventies, Rodney Lincoln served two years in prison for accidentally killing a man in a bar fight. About ten years later, he briefly dated a woman named Joanne Tate, and about a year after that, in the early morning hours of April twenty seventh, nineteen eighty two, Joanne was brutally stabbed to death and sexually assaulted in her Saint Louis apartment. Her two young daughters, seven year old Melissa and four year old Renee, miraculously survived the attack.
Joanne's brother thought her ex boyfriend, Rodney Lincoln, resembled a composite sketch. Investigators presented the older girl, Melissa, with a very suggestive lineup, and it had the desired effect. Without DNA testing available, this misidentification, along with Rodney's past conviction, sealed his fate. The first trial ended in a hung jury. However, in the second, the state leaned heavily on dubious hair
microscopy evidence and Melissa's testimony. Unfortunately for Rodney, pointing out the inconsistencies between Melissa's initial statements and trial testimony could not overcome the power of a then nine year old girl describing an unspeakable attack. Twenty seven years later, DNA testing excluded Rodney, but Melissa's testimony still looked Finally, when a serial killer named Tommy Lynn Sells had confessed the scores of eerly similar crimes, Melissa immediately recognized him for
photos as the actual attacker. However, her recantation was still somehow not enough to immediately set Rodney free. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction Today's episode. I mean, it's truly mind blowing, even for me and I've been doing this for a long time. This is a case of the wrongful conviction of a man named Rodney Lincoln who's here with us today. And first of all, before I go any further, Rodney, you know what can I say?
I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances. You never should have to go through any of this in the first place. But I'm obviously very happy that you're here to share your story. So thanks for being here today.
Thank you for having me dation.
We also have with us today one of the most tenacious and persistent fighters for Rodney's innocence, and that's Rodney's own daughter, Kay Lincoln. Kay, thanks so much for being with us today, no problem. And Rodney what a guy. I mean, this is a man who served over thirty six years in prison and his case involves junk science, a mistaken eyewitness identification. There's a serial killer whose name you'll probably recognize because he was responsible for other wrongful
convictions we've covered on this series. I mean, Rodney's case is a case that when you're at one of these innocent conferences and you start talking about this or that, people go, yeah, but have you heard about Rodney Lincoln? It's like whispered because this case is so bad, shit crazy. So, without further ado, let's go back in time. So where did you grow up?
I grew up in South Saint Louis, Missouri. I was a happy kid. Were poured, but everybody was poured too, so we didn't know that we was boy.
Right. There was no social media back then, so you had a happy childhood. And then it goes up to nineteen seventy three. You're still a very young man. Right. We got into a drunken bar fight and this is not the case we're here to talk about. This was something that actually happened, right, But do you want to talk about that just for a second.
In nineteen tell me three, I was convicted of a second degree murtor. I was in a boy drinking one day and bring the mind from across the street came over and told me, Hey, some guy just told something out you were trucking. Well, I had enough drink to mean that I would ready to go after him. Unfortunate way I did. We got into confiscation and he threw a rock at me, and miss I threw a rack at him, and didn't I wound you up? Convicted a second degree MODI.
Well, you served your time in prison for that crime, but little would you know at the time that was just the tip of the iceberg for your experience with the criminal legal system in this country. Right, and in this case you were actually guilty. And did you plead guilty in that case?
Yes, I did. I compressed to the crime. I was rightfully convicted.
All right. So now it's the late seventies getting into the early eighties and you're out of prison. What were you doing for work? And how did you first meet joe Anne Tate? Mighter says you dated at some point, right.
Yes, we dated a few times. I was Kendy boy at a place called the Cottage Inn, and this couple comes in the boar and I find out that this is Joanne Tape and her brother. While there, I got talking to Joanne. When they got ready to leave, Joanne gave me a piece of paper with her phone number on it asked me to call it that night when I got off work. I called, she answered, And that was the first time we met outside of the boy And when I say we dated, it wasn't like a
mad love affair. Our relationship was purely sexual, okay.
And then how long after that does this horrible crime happen?
It was just about a year. I think, maybe a little over it because I had been dating my girlfriend at the time for about eight months.
Now we fast forward to the early morning hours of April two, twenty seventh, ninety eighty two. This is going to be hard to hear. I'm just going to warn the audience. This crime is so grotesque that it's hard for me to even say it or read it, because this was the mark of a serial killer who was reaching the depths of his depraved crime spree. So in the early morning hours of April twenty seventh, ninety eighty two,
joe Ane Tate was thirty five years old. She was stabbed in the chest and sexually assaulted with a broomstick in her apartment at Saint Louis, Missouri. Now her seven year old daughter, Melissa, also was stabbed several times at her four year old daughter, Renee, had her throat cut. The girls survived the attack, but their mother tragically did not.
Her body was discovered at ten am when her brother and boyfriend at the apartment and found her lying face down in a pool of blood, and her daughter's lying there as well, covered in blood with multiple stab wounds.
The uptack neighbor had heard a loud noise from missus Tate's apartment at approximately four am that morning, and then when police arrived at the scene, they noticed the two girls were still alive, but they saw that there were and again brace yourself, bristles of a broom were protruding from the anus of missiou Ane Tate now Renee. The four year old never offered any identification of the attacker, but Melissa, the seven year old, gave the police various
different statements. Now for a while, she stuck to a story that a man named Bill was the attacker, right, not Rodnie Bill, and she gave the police some details about his car at his house. I believe they also made a sketch. But do you know how your name first came up to the police.
The way my name came up is they found my name in Joanne's diary and Buddy said that the guy, thank you of that, that's the guy just gets looks.
And police eventually showed a picture of you, a photo of you, Roddy to the young girl Melissa, and they had the fact that you had a murder conviction on your record from the drunken fight ten years earlier, completely unrelated by the way, which was a very different situation obviously. But after the show Melissa your photo, this poor little girl was shown a four person live lineup with you
in it. And here's the thing. You had short hair and a slight build, but the other three men didn't resemble you at all.
Right, one was about six inches taller than I was, and all of them had stremeway long hair and were built a lot bigger than I was. I've always been a small person. I was smaller than that lineup. Not to mention that they were all younger than I.
Was Yeah, So this is suggestive. Isn't even a strong enough word. And this is why I believe that these things should all be recorded. I wouldness identification, not just interrogations of suspects, because I mean, how much more traumatized could a child be. She's witnessed her own mother's brutal murder and also was stabbed several times by this monster. And now imagine her, this little child, with these police officers,
you know, steering her. Maybe they were doing it consciously, subconsciously, I don't know, towards the one guy in the lineup who looked anything like what she had said she remembered from this attack. Also, during the investigation, there was hair found and Puba CA hair that apparently did not belong to Joe an tape. So the state brings in a few quote unquote experts and we'll get to that insanity
in just a bit. Okay, So you're arrested, Rodney on May twenty third of nineteen eighty two, So this is just a few weeks after the attack. You're arrested and charged based on this let me say this sort of just the identification procedure, this junk science of the hair and the basic idea that they had tunnel vision because they said, well, here's a guy who had been convicted of murder, nothing like this one, nothing in common at all, and who dated her just briefly, so it must be him.
So you're in jail awaiting trial from May nineteen eighty two until August of nineteen eighty three.
I would be in jail for five hundred and thirty five days.
Five hundred and thirty five days, that's about a year and a half awaiting the trial. But now you had kids. You had with four kids by this.
Point, ah, yes, two downs and two daughters.
And your daughter Cave's here with us now. So kay, what was all of this like for you? What do you remember feeling at that time?
Confusion, why was this happening? Just was so lost as to why how could this even be a thought that he could do something like this. And I remember the first time we went to visit him when he was being held at the city jail, shortly after he was arrested, and he just looked us in the eyes and said, I need you to know I didn't do this. I had nothing to do with this, And that was really all I needed to hear and I really believed that. Okay, so he didn't do it. These guys are trying to
just do their job. They'll figure out that it wasn't him and he'll come home. And of course that didn't happen. And it was a year and a half before he went to trial, and we thought, well, okay, he's going to trial, they'll figure it out, the judge'll sent him home.
And in the first trial that almost panned out. And who represented you, Rodney.
I'll eject the ganet by an attorney by the name of Robert Hampey.
And how long did the trial take?
The big trout took fifteen days.
And it ended in the seven to five split verdict which hung the jerry. Of course, so now back to jail to await another trial, which took place in October of nineteen eighty three. And was it the same attorney that represented you in the second trial?
Yes.
So at the second trial, the state presented two criminalists who were employed by the City of Saint Louis Police department, Joseph Crowe and Harold Mesler, who testified about hair that was found at the crime scene. Now, Crow said that he examined a blanket found in the bedroom, found hair, and found one sample of a pubic hair that did
not belong to the victim. On cross examination, mister Crowe stated that the information that can be gathered from a hair is limited and that he didn't think it was possible to determine the age of the person. That one could not identify the ethnicity of a hair from a Caucasian quote with a great deal of certainty. This doesn't
sound like very strong testimony. So the hair evidence was then passed to Mesler, the other guy, to examine, and he testified that compared to a sample from you dy, along with samp from thirty seven other Caucasians, the thirty seven others were not comparable to the hair found at the scene. Okay, so I'm no scientists, but so these thirty seven other samples, thirty seven other people, that's what
passed for the exclusion of anyone else on the planet. Right, It's unbelievable that this is allowed to go on in a court of law. But okay, Later, the same guy, Mesa testify that when examining the thirty seven other individuals's hair along with Tate's hair and Lincoln's hair, only yours Rodney matched, and that in two hundred cases that he had handled, he had never found one where hair recovered from the crime scene matched to more than one person. Again,
what does that even mean or prove? I mean, if the process is getting thirty seven samples, who cares? If you did the same shoddy testing two hundred times or two million times, does that disproved that your suspect's hair is just similar to the actual killers hair? How do you know that from this method? Well, the answer is you don't. Hair microscopy possesses little to no forensic value.
You know. I'm reading this fantastic book now, and fact I just finished it last night by m. Chris Fabricant, and it's called Junk Science and the American Criminal Justice System. One of the things it highlights is how the National Category of Sciences did a study not that long ago where the FBI was forced to admit that they had been lying in case after case for decades about this evidence.
A sampling of the first five hundred transcripts revealed that special agents had given bogus testimony in about ninety six percent of the cases, thirty five had been death penalty convictions, and all but two of those had been marred by false testimony. Now nine men had already been put to death, and five more had died of other causes while waiting to be executed on death row due to this junk science.
It's nothing short of a forensic testimony disaster. So you've got this junk science presented at your trial, Rodney, but it's really there to support Melissa, whose testimony, despite the inconsistencies, was still very powerful. We're talking about what was she by the time of the trial, just nine years old?
I believe Jella, yes.
So she described with the little nine year old Melissa describe waking up to screams and seeing her mother laying down on her stomach in a little blood. Near the door to her bedroom. She said, she saw a naked man and again I'm sorry you have to hear this, who came over to her bed, picked her up and carried her up to tape the bedroom, put her on the bed, and removed her clothes. She said he tried to get her to quote do a few things. He stand her repeatedly, and she attempted to play dead until
he stopped again. This is her testimony, she said. The attacker then washed off the knife and she hid under her sister's bed, and she then heard the attacker hurt her sister. Oh man, this is just kidding worse and worse. When she was in her mother's bedroom, she said she got a good look at the killer. She said she did not remember his name at the time, but she remembered seeing him before that night, a long time ago, when she Renee and her mom spent the night at
your house, Rodney. And she said the house was across from a park with a playground, and that your mother and some pets lived there, and she identified the playground at the park from photos. She then identified a photo of Hugh Rodney as her attacker, as attacker of the whole family, and she identified you in the courtroom as well. She then explained that she initially said because you remember
she had said Bill, did it right? Because she was sick and hurt and everyone kept bothering her for a name, she just said Bill. She stated several times that Bill and Lincoln were the same person, and at the time of the attacks, she did not really know your name.
And I sit there in a second trial, I'm beginning to see I am, and some bisure your trouble.
Let's talk about your defense. Your attorney, Ridy Robert Hampy, who had been with you now for quite some time through the first trial and the second trial. Yes, he had an almost impossible task because how do you cross examine a traumatized, terrified little girl who's lost her mother and almost lost her own life as well as seeing her sister savagely attacked. I don't know how you go about doing that, but how did he attempt to because she was really the whole case, right.
Right, I think as I look back on it now, his whole line of attack. He hought mostly on the inconsistencies of his statements, trying to get it to repeat the different things that she had said in the past that was not exactly it's supposed to be. Now, as I look back on it now, I almost feel like he founding her.
Well, that could backfire as well, because I mean, he had to walk a tightrope, and it sounds like he didn't do it very well. But he literally was in between a rock and a hard place, because the jury's not going to want to see him being anything other than gentle so to speak to this child. But he had your life on the line, and the only way to get you out of this at this point was to undermine her testimony, which, as of course, turns out
all those years later to have been false. Okay, So then we get to the closing argument, and in the state's closing argument, they didn't really focus on the hair sample. Rather, they kept harping on little Melissa's testimony, noting that Renee was too young to testify and stating that Melissa quote bore the responsibility for the three of them to tell you what happened that night. Whoa. And then they recapped Melissa's identification of you, Rodney, And I'd say at that
point your fate was probably more or less sealed. I mean, these are people on the jury, these are normal people, well, who are listening to this testimony, this child, and who want to get justice for her and her mom and her sister and the family. And so I think that that's going to cloud their judgment. And while they may have had real doubts as to your guilt, at this point, the human instinct is depended on somebody, right. So how long did they deliberate for the second trial?
They was out I think about two a half hours well.
It's not very long at all. And when they came back in, did you still hold out hope or did you, as you said before, you knew you were in serious trouble and you basically resigned yourself to the idea that these people were going to come back and render a Guilly verdict.
No, no, I fell felt that they're going to get it right. They come back and say, look, we can't find enough everything.
Convict this guy, and you would go home and try to piece your life back together again. But unfortunately that was not to be so Rodney. When the jury came back in, what was that moment like when they convicted you and sentenced you to life in prison plus fifteen years for a crime you had nothing to do with.
I find it very hard to describe that feeling. It was just like everything inside of me was yanked out. Nothing there but the shell. At that time. I was taken to the Madrid State Penitentiary in Jefferson City. When I arrived, I was taken to a large room with a bunch of other people. We were stripped down, got into a shire where we were strayed like cattle. I was designed to two house at the Jafferton City Penitentiary.
Once I got there, it was a living nightmare. I was always looking over my shoulder do anything or going anywhere, and remained that way for just about for ten years.
And meanwhile, you're enduring these archaic and barbaric prison conditions while being handed one devastating disappointment after another from the courts. And by that I mean that in nineteen eighty six, your wrongful conviction was upheld on direct appeal, and then the motion for post conviction relief was denied two years
later in nineteen eighty eight. But a crucial breakthrough came in two thousand and three when the Saint Louis, Missouri Circuit Attorney's Office or a Justice Project to review old convictions and chose your case to review out of fourteen hundred old cases. And here I'd like to turn back to your daughter, k because she plays an absolutely crucial role in what happens next. It's okay, can you take us through this.
It was June fifth, two thousand and three. I got off work that evening and I stopped by my mom's house and I walked in the door and she was just finishing watching the news, and she said, your dad maybe out in a couple weeks. And I said, you're crazy, what are you talking about. She said, they just showed his picture on the news and they said they're reviewing his case. So the next morning I called down to the Circuit Attorney's office and I asked them is this true?
Is he one of the cases? And they verified that yes, this was one of the cases that they were looking at. And so I started a communication with the man who was in charge of doing this review, and through the course of our communication, they said, well, we can't find the transcripts. We can't get a hold of the trains. So I tracked them down. I went to the Court of Appeals and I purchased the transcripts from them. It
was like twelve hundred dollars to get these transcripts. I made copies and took them down to the Circuit Attorney's office and said here you go, get busy, you know. So as they're doing their review, I'm rereading these transcripts myself, and I'm just getting blown away by the things that I'm seeing. Because my aunt had an original copy of Melissa's deposition from back in nineteen eighty two, so I'm comparing Melissa's deposition to things that were said in trial,
and I'm like, well, this isn't even jiving. It's not making sense. So then I thought, well, I need to see these police reports. So I requested the police reports, and it took forever to get them. The police department did not want to give them to me. Now I'm reading them and I'm freaking out because there's so much information here. The more I read, the more I need to find more, you know. So I'm like, I need this lineup photo. And I had to fight and fight
to get the lineup photo. I finally got that and I was just blown away. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's incredible.
Yeah, right, it really is. I mean, the suggested nature, the whole thing. You know, there's these huge dudes with long hair and your dad's got short hair and a lighter build.
Yeah, it's almost like a joke. So I got the lineup photo. I'm reading trial transcripts and police reports and I'm like, oh, well, there's more depositions somewhere. So I go back down to the courts and I request all the depositions and I'm reading through them and one really got my attention. There was a criminologist I guess by the name of John Salmone, and in his deposition he states that he identified a fingerprint on the knife as my dad's and I'm like, wait a minute, that never
came up in I guess. It was my dad's attorney who was doing the deposition, and he said, are you aware of a man named George bone Break? And Detective Salmone said yes, he was a fingerprint analysis expert at the FBI, And so the attorney asks him, are you aware that this print was sent to George bone Break for evaluation. They go off the record, come back on the record, and he states that he is no longer willing to testify that that is Rodney Lincoln's fingerprint unless
George bone Break testifies that it's Rodney Lincoln's fingerprint. Well, what happened was the police department had sent that print to bone Break to try to get confirmation of it being his. Bone Break gave them back a report saying no, it's not his fingerprint, and he actually offered to testify for the defense, but wanted like one thousand dollars or
something that they didn't have to pay him. So you had a detective who says this is his fingerprint and absolutely knows it's not, and that was never brought up at trial. Dad's attorney and the prosecutor agreed to a stipulation that neither one of them would bring that print up at trial. And I was like, why in the hell would his attorney not bring that up.
So this investigation into your dad's conviction by this circuit attorney, well, in April two thousand and four, they decided to close it down right. They said they couldn't locate the fingernail scrapings from Joanne from the attacker and couldn't provide any conclusive proof with the hair, so they wouldn't be doing any further investigation or testing. I mean, I can't imagine how that would have felt. What did you do? What were you thinking? Then?
I'm like, wait a minute, I've got way too much information now in the past ten months, somebody's going to do something. You might be finished, but I'm not, and.
You weren't, and we're about to get into that. I mean, Rodney, you have to be so proud of cam Damn. I'm proud of k and without her we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation right now.
Absolutely, it would be a hold up. Was straight than what I am today, It's not. For she gathered all the information and did all the legwork and did a lot of the investigation. Contacted a guy by the name of Steve Weinberg who was a journalist at the Columbia School of Journalists. He was also the founder of the
Midwest Entrance. CAE made contact with him and he used my case with his journalists students and allowed them to investigate my case and they came up with a lot of the information that we have today.
So it's now twenty ten, so this ordeal has now been going on for more than a quarter century. In ten, DNA testing that the Midwest intern Project had fought for was approved and samples from the crime scene were tested, and of course the results did not match you, Rodney. And then MIP filed to have you released, but the motion was supposed and Circuit Court Judge Robin Vanoy ruled that the DNA results were not enough to exonerate you, Rodney.
I mean, how did it feel to you when you were aware that the DNA had exculpated you?
Right?
And yet the courts are saying, and we're not buying that DNA stuff.
Well, what we were told that DNA on the hair was not enough to release me because they still had the eye witnestemony.
Right. So in twenty fourteen, we come to a crucial turning point in this case, and that brings us to this awful character in this story today. And we've heard his name on the show before. I'm talking about serial killer Tommy lynz Sells, And so I reached out out to a fascinating person whose investigative work into just how many innocent people were in prison for murders that were actually committed by Tommy Lindzels led him to start several
organizations in different states, including the Illinois Innosons Project. By the way, just to give you an idea of how many murders and wrawful convictions for which cells is responsible. Julie Ray, who's been on the show herb whitlock you Rodney,
of course, And we're not even scratching the surface. So in speaking with this investigator, he gives us a look inside his journey into the murderous career of Tommy lin Sells, starting with the wrawful conviction of Randy's Steidle and how that unfolds into Rodney's case.
My name is Bill Clutter. I'm a private investigator. Twenty years ago, I started the Illinois Innocence Project in Springfield, Illinois. I was involved in the case of Rady' Stidel, who spent most of his seventeen years on death row. You know, in twenty fourteen, although Stidl Whitlock were free, they still hadn't had their names cleared, and so I filed a affidavit detailing all the crimes of Tommy lyn Cells. So part of those details included his modus apperende were in
many of his cases. He would strike at four am, take knives from the kitchen where he would stab his victims to death. But it was the details of the Dardine case that was in my affidavit that caught the attention of an attorney in Rhode Island, Jen Fitzgerald. She reached out to me and asked if I was aware
of the Rodney Lincoln case. When she started telling me the details, that the murder happened at four am, a knife from the kitchen was used, that it happened in Saint Louis, where I knew that Tommy Lynzell's family moved around February of nineteen eighty two. That was significant because it gives Cell's opportunity to have committed the murder of
Joanne Tate. And here he was only seventeen at the time, and this would have been one of his very early murders that he committed, and all of the factors of that case are identical to many of his other cases. Four Am Knife from the Kitchen, And it so happened that crime watched daily it was a new syndicated crime show, reached out and was interested in doing a story about my investigation linking Cells to the murder of Joanne Tate. It was that show when it aired in November of
twenty fifteen that triggered the recantation of Melissa Debore. When she saw the images of Tommy Lynn Cells, she had a flashback and this visceral reaction and she reached out to Kay Lincoln on social media that your dad is innocent, Tommy lynz Cells killed my mother.
Well, it sure checks out because when you look at the grotesque details of Missus Ruby Dardine's murder, and again, brace yourself because this is grotesque, but Missus Dardean's body was found next to her three year old son and newborn baby. Now, Tommy lind Sells was a hitman for hire as well as just seemed like he just enjoyed violence, like it was his sort of weird kick, and this case appears to be one of the hired variety because it's believed that the mafia actually hired him to brutalize
the Dardines. The husband, Keith, in particular, was made to watch his family be physically destroyed. Tommy lind Sells had waited for Ruby's husband Keith to come home, and during this time, Ruby gave birth to her baby. Oh my god, I'm gonna cry. And Keith was found a while away, shot execution style with his penis severed and stuffed into his mouth. I mean, and his wife Ruby was found
And this is important. Again, cover your ears if you're squeamish, But this is important because it relates back to the circumstances surrounding the tape murder. Missus Dardine was found with a baseball bat protruding from her vagina, so this was this sick bastard's mo After Melissa reached out to Kay on Facebook, and Midwest Insis Project shifted their attention to Tommy but in cells. At some point, Melissa learned that you, Rodney, were left handed, unlike the man who killed her mom
and attacked her. So on November twenty eight, twenty fifteen, Melissa, now a grown woman, well into her I guess forties now from that nine year old girl who testified a seven year old girl that had been attacked. She recanted her testimony against Rodney Lincoln. She said, and this is a direct quote, Rodney Lincoln did not kill my mom. He did not attempt to kill my sister and I it was Tommy Lynn Sells. When the veil fell from my eyes, I was horrified. I have kept an innocent
man in prison for thirty four years. I did not know I was wrong, but I was and realizing it is so painful. When I saw a picture of Tommy wind says, I had a horrible, horrible feeling. And when I think about that terrible night, I now see how I could have gotten mixed up. This is all I can really say right now. End quote.
I learned about that again through my daughter. She came up to visit me and when she told me that she talked to Melissa and Milita was going to recant whose statement, we laughed. Replied, I felt, at last, it's finally ending. Then, after Melissa actually went through the prosecutor's office, I was told how Melissa was treated like she couldn't possibly be right after thirty years, saying that she yet they don't have any trouble believing her when she was seving. That amazed me.
Yeah, it seems backwards and upside down and inside out and everything right. And it's amazing how they can just believe what they want to believe when they want to believe it, and then discount it when it doesn't match
exactly what they want the narrative to be. I can't leave out that this poor poor woman, Melissa, is now being re traumatized as she learns that she had been lied to by the people who were sworn to protect and serve her, and who, as a child who had just lost her mother, must have been just imagine clinging onto anyone, any grown up that you think might be able to help you, and to have been betrayed, and then to as she said so eloquently in such a
heartfelt manner to now have to live with this awful feeling that she was responsible for putting a man who had nothing to do with it in prison for I mean, Jesus, you served almost four decades in prison, and now the state is refusing to listen to her. But she wasn't done yet. December twenty fifteen, Melissa went and met with the Saint Louis Prosecuting Attorney's officers declare her recantation. And she even came to meet you in prison to ask for your forgiveness.
I mean, I told her that there was nothing to forgive her far if she didn't do anything. She was manipulated, collers, guided and tricked. I couldn't forgive there was anything to forgive her for if she was in it. We did the hug, We tried, we laughed. When she first walked up to me, she just kept saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and I kept down there's nothing to be charged, boy, you didn't do anything. It was a moment. I can't
really describe how I felt. It was a moment that I would cherish the rest of my life.
I'm always at a loss for words when I hear these stories. What I read is that what you said to her when she begged for your forgiveness was I have nothing to forgive you for you are completely blame nous. I thank you for your courage, but you only have my love, not any anger from me. I'm so sorry for you and for losing your mom. Well, that's probably exactly what she needed to here and probably exactly what you need to get off your chest. And then things
started to roll. Even though there was still one more major speed bump ahead right, which is out of twenty seventeen. Despite the DNA evidence and the sole eyewitness both on your side, your case was still denied a review by the Missouri Supreme Court. I mean, like, like what I mean, what was your reaction to that?
Well, by the time I'm being getting to understand they are perfect, court system isn't so perfect. The decision of the appeals court that innocence isn't enough to free a person unless they have the death penalty that flowed me, and then the Supreme Court wouldn't even hear the case. He separately den I to hear it.
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense, Like what deny it on what basis? But you're here today. And that's because remarkably Governor Briton's certainly not a criminal justice reformer, stepped in and commuted your sentence into the twenty eighteen and you were immediately released, not pardon, by the way, and so you're still living as a convicted murderer, which is insane.
You know, I wonder about that today. I didn't find out about this until around ten thirty the morning of the day that I left. They came and got me and told me I had to go up front and wait for a call from the governor. The phone rang, and I was sitting in the office at time. Manager Aim through the phone and he and the phone to me. I say, hello, boy, says is this Ridney Lincoln. I said, yes, it is. He said, someone here wants to speak to you.
He is the governor of the state of Missouri. And then governor comes on, he says Rodney, I said, yes, sir. He said, I just wanted to call and tell you that I'm commuting your sentence to time served. The only thing I could think of at that moment would thank you. And then the governor told me, Ridney, I want you spend the rest of your time building a better community, making this a better country, and God blessed you. And you only I could say was God bless you.
That's a short and sweet conversation if I ever heard one.
Yes, shut, sweet and at least for me, very powerful. I never left the penitentiary until twenty minutes after six that evening, and I walked out. My two daughters and my grandson and two of my attorneys were there to meet me.
Rodney, I got to ask, what was that like? Like you, I'm talking about your first steps out as a free man into free air after so many long years in prison.
You know today everything's virtual, and it's kind of way I felt there. I didn't you know, happened virtually. This isn't real.
So you felt like it was a dream.
Absolutely very good, one better dream.
And then what did you do? So a lot of hugs and tears, I'm sure, and laughing.
We uh tried laugh. I have a very emotional family. One of the things that I remember so vividly is I remember telling my daughter how much better the sunshine felt outside of the prison from the way it did on the inside.
What a day man. And meanwhile, that was back in twenty eighteen and it's now twenty twenty two, so this is a little more than three and a half years ago, and I understand that you have been traveling the country speaking about your experience courageously and advocating to try to help prevent others from going through the same nightmare that
you went through. There's a wonderful quote that I read from you that said, just the fact that I could possibly help someone that was the same position that I was in, if I could do something today that makes me a better person or help someone else, It's been a good day. That's awesome. You're awesome, man. That's all I can say about that. So how's life been these three and a half years of freedom?
Fantastically amazing would almost cover it. Since I've been out, I've been on several vacations, did some deep sea fati, did some pair of gliding, rode the pirate ship. I jumped out of a perfectly good airplane twice.
Amazing.
I'm using this time to learn more about myself as well as the people around me. I was away and a lot of things you just lose touch of, and I'm trying to regain that tightness and family bonds. I try and keep in touch with many of the guys back at the prisoners I can by email. Since it COVID hit, I've been able to do much speaking advocating. Tend to continue with that, Well.
We need you out there, and we need you on here. And the good news. You know, one hundred thousand plus people will hear this podcast and hear your thoughts that you've shared with us so generously. It's been an honor for me to have the chance to interview you here today. You are an inspiration and for people who want to help Rodney as he hopefully lives another twenty thirty years and as he continues to do his good work. There's a GoFundMe. Just go to the link in our bio.
We'll have it posted right there for you. One click, donate five dollars, five hundred thousand dollars, whatever you want, anything you can spare to help Rodney. You can also learn even more about this case on a podcast called The Real Killer. It's a twelve episode series and this case certainly has a lot of layers to it. And then Rodney, we now turn to the closing the show,
which we call closing Arguments. It works like this I'm going to turn off my microphone, kick back in my chair, turn the volume up, and leave my headphones on, and just listen to any thoughts you want to share that we haven't already covered.
As far as my case, I think recovered that the lay and I certainly appreciate you giving me this opportunity. One thing that I would like to share is Melissa is trying to get re established here in Saint Louis, and there's a go fund me for her to help her raise money for housing. If you would go to that, go from me and help Melussa out. She's having a pretty rough time right now if you need some help, and by helping her that would help me.
That's beautiful. We'll also have the go fund me for Melissa, who you've heard so much about in this episode. We'll have it posted in our bio as well, So go there, click on that. Rodney. What a generous and wonderful spirit you are. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts with us.
Thank you again for having me.
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Cliburn, and Kevin Wartis with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava
for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow me on both TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason Flam. Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcas as an association with Signal Company Number one