#212 Jason Flom with Curtis Flowers

pronounced dead. After hearing about the allegedly disgruntled Curtis Flowers, police used a toxic mix of a cash reward and intimidation to extract witness statements, widely varying in detail. They pieced together a ridiculous narrative of Curtis's whereabouts, including a dubious story about a gun that his uncle had reported missing. With this flimsy motive and even flimsier evidence, along with racially discriminatory jury selection, Curtis Flowers was first tried and

convicted of earth attorney's murder. While that conviction was being thrown out, he was convicted for the murder of one of the other employees, and when the second conviction was thrown out, they tried him again for all four murders. After six trials and a trip to the Supreme Court, this force would finally come to an end when American Public Media made a podcast called in the Dark Shining Up Bright Light on Curtis's case and the racist district

attorney driving it. After twenty three long years on death row and another trip to the Supreme Court, district Attorney Doug Evans finally stepped off the case. Upon review, the Attorney General of Mississippi dropped all charges. This is wrongful conviction with Jason Flom. Welcome back to wrongful conviction with Jason Flam. And I'm gonna throw a few numbers at you before I introduce our guest. So, Curtis Flowers was wrongfully convicted six times spent twenty three years on death

row for four murders that he didn't commit. Curtis Flowers, Welcome to wrongful conviction here. So let's go back to the beginning. You grew up in a small town in Mississippi. Right is about eighty four miles north of Jackson, Mississippi, a small town about the population of five thousand, over black. Did you have a happy childhood? Yes, I do. Brothers, sisters, brothers. To have four sisters, one brother, I'm the I guess

you'd call the middle child. So everything was pretty much fine, I guess until what would seemed like a very minor incident at a store that you only worked that for a few days. I'm talking about Tardy Furniture, which should have come and went and never been the subject of even one little minor discussion. But nonetheless, since it was the incident that started this crazy chain of events going,

can you just tell us what happened at Tardy Furniture. Well, I went to work and tardies on one morning, and uh, she asked me to pull around back so the business next door could load some batteries onto the truck, and leaving I pulled off in two of the batteries slid off the truck. I got back to the store, I told her about them. She said, we'll take them back around there and let me see if they can replace them, because if they can't, then you don't have to pay

for them, because she should have tied them down. And I said, okay, So I took them back. Mr Jimmy Sanders, who worked there, told me that we well, we'll work it out. So I went back and told her everything was good. You know, she sent me home to deliver furniture all that day, you know, by me just starting. You know, she even advanced me, I think it was. And didn't go back to work at the store after that.

But I didn't fine whatever, and uh later it became a motive, right, like this little minor incident was going to cause you to go back and shoot four people in the head. So now, unbeknownst to you, a terrible,

terrible thing happens right at Tardy Furniture. On the morning of July n Sam Jones Jr. Retired employee of Tardy Furniture Company, reported that the owner of Birth of Tardy, who was fifty nine, had called him at nine am asking him to come into the store to train a couple of new employees, a guy named Derek Bobo Stewart of sixteen and Robert Golden of forty two. Old Matt Jones arrived an hour later and found a horror scene.

He found that Tardy, Stewart, Golden, and another employee named Carmen Rigby, old woman had all been shot and killed. Well one of them, sixteen year old Mr Stewart, was the only one still alive, but he died in the hospital a few days later, and supposedly two seven dollars was missing from the cash riders. So that gives me the chills because it's just what's the price of a life?

And then they rest in peace. So just this crazy coincidence, smallest town like that, you know, place that you happened to previously work and even the fact that you worked there at one time really shouldn't have set off too many alarm bells. Maybe somebody would have quickly looked into it and ruled you out, But this wasn't just anybody, right. What we're talking about is you ran into the crosshairs

of District Attorney Doug Evans. Then they covered this in this fantastic podcast, which I'm sure some of our listeners have heard called in the Dark. Thought it was brilliantly done. Let me just say that one of the things that jumps out to me from the podcast about Doug Evans was that an analysis by a p M for the podcast discovered that Evans and his assistant d A's over the course of twenty six years, struck black perspective jurors at nearly four and a half times the rate they

struck white ones. And of course we know that's one of the main reasons why your conviction kept getting overturned, because he kept excluding black jurors from the jury's which is of course a violation of the fourteenth Amendment. This is a guy who was elected again in November two thousand nineteen, so he's been in there forever still the d A. But numerous civil rights lawsuits have been filed

against him. But according to the Mississippi Bar Association, it is hard to believe he's received no public sanction and remains a lawyer in good standing. So let's let's go back. Let's go back. Hold them. So the crime took place on July sixteenth, nine six When did you even hear about it? The same day? Uh, they come by the house, wants to know if they could talk with me. They said they heard that I used to work there and

maybe I could help them. You know, maybe I've seen something and don't realize I saw it, and I so sure I went down with him untild you know, every time I left. You know what we talked about here today, don't don't tell anyone else. And we just want to know you're not a suspect. We just we just thought maybe you could help, you know, So I said, okay, But everyone on the street was telling me that when they talked with them, they said I was a suspect.

They tested your hands for gunshot residents in my hands to do the morning they picked me up. I wanted to question me. They wanted to rule me out, so he said, and uh, I agree, And I agreed to gunshot residue tests, and they gave it to me. And later they come back and say they think one particle of gunshot residude. You know, I don't know anything about residue, but law your argor that there are three elements to gunshot residude. You can't have one without the other two.

And and he asked them, well, how did miss Flower get to the police station and I got down? It would have stayed true, he said, isn't it true? They fried their weapons every morning, and and miss Flower the ship hands with him, so he could have picked up that particle just like that, or could have come from a firework and we have a whole episode of our show Wrong for Conviction Jump Science devoted to the gunshot RESIDUEATIONE.

There are literally dozens of substances that could, you know, sort of fool the test, you know, and that it all has to be independently corroborated or else it's just junk science. Yes, and I even heard that you could get that from just just messing with a car battery, car battery, cigarette ash, dried urine, or also giving you a gunshot of rather do tests and he don't have one gloves right, and he's handling your hands, Well, he's doing it just transferable. So that's the flimsiest of flimsy

evidence that you could have. Not evidence is a wrong word, but they call the evidence. I call it bullshit. Okay, So your prints were not found at the crime scene, and your clothes they took your clothes, right, clothes, went to the crime lab and turned up nothing. Right, So are you a ghost? You not a ghost? At that point maybe reasonable people could agree that they could have started looking for the actual perpetrator, but they continued on. Now at the scene, three footprints from size ten and

a half feel a gym shoes were later discovered. And don't get me started on footprint on analysis because that's a whole another junk science. And there was no paper money only changed in the cash pheris again supposedly two seven dollars was missing. A police found five shell casings at the scene, which were from a three eighty caliber semi automatic pistol. They also found two spent bullets to bullet fragments and one live bullet. Now have you ever

owned a three d caliber semi automatic pistol? Okay, So now entered Doyle Simpson. Doyle Simpson was your uncle. He reported that a pistol of this same type in caliber had been stolen from his car in the parking lot of the Angelica Garment factory where he worked. So he now came under suspicions. On July, Simpson took a polygraph test that revealed deception when he said that he's gun had been stolen from his car and when he said

he knew nothing about the murders. Again, we know polygraphs are not super accurate, but they can give you some indication. But we should not take a polygraph as just gospel, because it's not. But according to the polygraph from the political where he lied about where he got the gun, and police later discovered that he called his brother asking him to lie to the police as well, telling them that he had sold the gun to Simpson, but the

brother refused. He was later found out that he did about his where about that morning of those murder don't claim he was at work all morning, and his own sister said she saw his car we on eighty two, she saw him drive about that morning. Well, I can think of a couple of reasons why that could be. One would be that he wanted to deflect this fishon

away from him because he was actually guilty. Or the other would be that he just was trying to like not be any part of this and so was making up a story that he was at work just to try to throw the police off even looking further into him.

That was my first though. So Simpson went on to tell the cops that he practiced shooting this gun in a rural spot, but a detective went to that location and pulled the spent plug from a post, and according to the firearms expert from the Michigan State Police, David Ballast, testified that he determined that the bullet from the post actually did have marking similar to the bullets recovered from

the crime scene. In August of nine, detectives led by the DA investigator John Johnson questioned Mr Simpson about their findings, but again he denied his involvement and maintained that the gun had been stolen from the car that morning. So despite the fact that they're like flashing arrows now pointing towards Simpson, right, they continued to focus on you. And now they discovered a box of size tended to half

Feelers shoes at your girlfriend, Connie's house. I later found out that my girlfriend at the time, Connie head Ball her son Marcus, a pair of Feelers shoe size tend and a half. And then that's how they laid up to me wearing a pair of tennant half FeelA. Do you wear a size tenna a half feel is shoe. Most shoes that were eleven and a half dress shoe,

but in gym shoes, I can't wear eleven. Well, anybody who's ever worn a shoot that's a half to a full size too small kind of report that is very uncomfortable. I think it's unlikely that those were your shoes. Under any circumstances. And I'm going to say to that feelers were pretty stylish back in the late nineties, were okay.

So most of the people who were questioned later on reported, and this will surprise exactly no one, They reported that they were afraid of being arrested themselves unless they cooperated with the police, and some said that rewards of up to thirty thousand dollars were dangled in front of them if they agreed to cooperate. So they were using the

carrot and the stick. So they eventually, not surprisingly, got statements from a dozen different witnesses who said they saw you in various locations in and around whine Known on the morning of the crime. And based on these statements, which were almost certainly fabricated and coerced and rewarded right when you put the third dollar reward out, people that didn't even know me knew me there, and everybody saw

me here and there. I'd have to be superman to be in all those places around the same time and dressed differently, right, Yeah, the winness described me wearing something different, But based on all these crazy statements that they had to try to piece together, and I've seen the map that shows your movements on that morning, Like I think I saw it sixty minutes or something. It's like, it's so ridiculous. He was zigzagging all over town, according to

these in all different clothes. So they developed this crazy theory that motivated by the anger of this loss of this fantastic tardy furniture delivery job that you had, that you had walked all over town, stole Simpson's gun, walked home, walked back across town, shot and killed the four victims, robbed cash register, and then just tootled your way back home. Not a care in the world. Right now, we have to fast forward all the way to January three teenth,

ninety seven, plane O, Texas. So you moved to Plano, Texas right with your girlfriend, Ms. Connie Moore. What happened at that time? I was working from three to eleven and I got up to fix myself some lunch. It was a knock at the door, and right before I grabbed the door, I saw a movement. You know, I have to patty your door. And you know it's what they call runners, you know who just in case you run. You know, they got guys set up to chase So I opened the door and uh, he said, how are

you doing? I said, I'm doing okay. How are you, sir? And uh he said I'm looking for Curtis Flowers. I said that would be me. And before I could say anything else, I was all against the wall talking sheet rock moved upside, my full head being coughed, and I said, ma. I asked why am I being arrested? He said, well, we have a warrant for your arrist back in Mississippi for four counts of captain murder. This episode is underwritten by Paul Weiss Rifkin, Wharton and Garrison, a leading international

law firm. Paul Weiss has long had an unwavering commitment to providing impactful, pro bono legal assistance to the most vulnerable members of our society and in support of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal justice area. It took me back to the Mississippi where I was put in jail in Lafleur County, and that's where I sat until I went to trial in October of seven. So you get charged with four accounts of capital murder. Let's go to trial number one. Hard to believe that

you had six damn trials. I mean, that's not a record that I think you ever wanted to hold or set. And it was not the winning So the first trial, they only tried you for one of the murder's birth at Tardeys. I know your attorney had tried to combine them right into one case, but of course that was denied. Everything he tried was denied pretty much, right, So the trial was moved to Lee County and the jury was get ready. Oh now, from what I understand, it was

moved to Lee County because of extensive media coverage. Is that your understanding, That's what I hear. And then they claimed that I couldn't get a fair trial in my own hometown. Keep in mind, I want on it is what about Lee? I don't know the population there, but the blacks they were there, they didn't get on the jury.

So it's dull in his trial tactics, you know, right, And those are called peremptory challenges, right, which is the technical term for defendants or lawyer's objection to a proposed juror, which is made without needing to give a reason. But it is illegal to exclude jurors because of their race. So they had plenty of black jurors to choose from. They just didn't choose to put any of them on

your jury exactly. So now magically the prosecution had found two more witnesses, and we hear this in Getting Again right on this show. These are incentivized jail house niches, Frederick Veale and Maurice Hawkins, and they both testified that you were their sellmate while you were waiting trial, and that you admitted to committing the crime. So jail house niches, they are the most unreliable witnesses of all because they're all incentivized, and sometimes they lie about being incentivized while

they're lying about overhearing these magical confessions. Right. So both of these two guys later recanted. We're just going to speculate that they may have gotten whatever they were going to get. They got with two sentenses that got rewarded in some way. So now we get to Patricia Hallman, who was a neighbor of yours, and she testified that on the morning of the crime, around seven thirty a m. She saw you going into your house in a rage.

I can just picture her making up this story, Okay, And other witnesses testified to seeing you at various times that morning, including Katherine Snow, who claimed that she saw you leading against a car outside the factory where Simpson worked. Clemmie Fleming testified that she got a ride home from Roy Harris to go make a payment at Tardy Furniture, but she said she didn't go in because she was pregnant and feeling sick, so Harris drove her home. Now,

why does that matter? Because she said she saw you running away from the store, and Harris said he also saw someone running but only thought it was you because Fleming said, So this this web is getting deep and deep. Bro. So now comes Jack Matthews, an investigator for the Mississippi Highway State Patrol, who testified that, based on a ledger sheet at Tardy Furniture, two seven dollars was missing from

the cash draw. Now, they then came up with the theory the two fifty five dollars that was found in Connie's home your girlfriend was the same money that was missing from the furniture store. Amazing, because no one else had two hundred dollars. It must have been the same two hundred dollars. And I thought that was so crazy. Is she not allowed to save money. I mean, I imagine most people in town had a little bit of cash in their house, like they could have said, any

thing could have been twenty dollars. Oh, here's the twenty from the store. What do you know? Amazing. I'm glad you could laugh about it, because I'm about to cry, for sometimes you have to lead keeping cry. Okay. Well, so then there was a forensic analyst who conducted the gunshot residue tests on your hands, which magically produced one particle, who testified that the residue certainly had to be from handling a gun and not anything else. So this is a guy who didn't know what the fun he was

talking about, because we know that that's not true. Then Ballish testified, remember him from before, positive that the bullets recovered from the scene had been fired from Simpson's gun. But when testified about the ten and a half sized Pheela box found in her home, your girlfriend told the story that you had said right, that she had purchased for her son in November of and that her son took them when he moved to his father's in They

could have verified that if they cared. You testified that he had started working at Hardy and Orly July six, What was your testimony with the batteries about? Like I told them, she sent me around to I think it was a task who at the time who sold her the battery. Now my job was just pick the batteries up and take them out into the country club and

they're gonna put them on the golf cards. But you know, pulling off from a tasko to the batter sleep out hit the pavement and one was leaking the other one. There was nothing wrong with the better other than you know, the edges got danged up on the concrete, and uh, she said, we'll just take them back around there, and uh, I'm a call and see if they give me some type of deal on them or replace them. If they can't, then you did, I have to come out of your pay.

I said, I have no problem with that, because you're right, I suppoke to time them down no offense. But that's a boring story, I mean, And it wasn't the only boring part of your day because on the day of the crime, you also testified about getting up at nine, cooking a little breakfast and on the can of short and the sister's house to get some vantages and commedian store to buy some beer and chips. It really sounds

like a very average, average, average day. And you told them that you hadn't committed the crime, that you hadn't stolen the gun, and that you hadn't been running near

the store at ten am. You also told them, which was again easily verifiable, that you wore size eleven Nike shoes, and that you're shot off fireworks the day before the murders and handled the lead car battery at working on the truck, which you know, you're not a scientist, but even you could figure out that these things could cause this, you know, confusion to the testing. Right. Well, I later found that out. You know, I'm just being honest about

what I did. And what about alibi witnesses? Do you have any button at the first trial, only the keys and and they ruled that they didn't want to bring the keys and it because they were so young, you know, and and and dramatize them or anything like that. But there was a few people knew my whereabout. My cousin even come by the house and told me what was going on. He said, when I first heard it, all I thought about was you I thought you got killed down there, so I can't go here to check on you.

And then the jury deliberated for one whole hour, one whole hour, one hour. I can't imagine what that conversation was like. The all white jury convicted you in an hour, and later that day they went ahead and imposed the death penalty. Oh man, my my world was turned upside down putting this whole and parchment is I cannot describe partment to you. If if you didn't have someone it's on the outside who love and support you, it was hard to maintain in there. Some guys just taking sheets

and take it own. Live. Man. I've experienced that a lot while I was there. It's it's a bad place. So between trial went in to the jail house. Niche Mr Veale recanted his testimony, saying that he had been coerced by the prosecution and promised a piece of the reward. But Hawkins stood by his testimony. But when your attorney confronted him with the transcript of an interview he had

done during which he never talked about you. In the transcript, he said that he testified quote to protect myself from doing time and getting killed. In quote in exchange for his testimony, very important hawkins Is cocaine charge was dropped and he got house arrest for burglary. I'm a guess that Mr Hawkins was a black man. Did they typically give black men house arrest for burglary in Mississippi? They do not know. I know, he answered that question. I

just wanted to hear you say okay. So while the first conviction was being appealed, the second trial occurred and it was moved to Harrison County. And if this second trial was for the murder of Derek Bobo Stewart, this time the jury was made up of eleven white jurors and one black juror, so they managed to get one

on there this time, but that didn't help either. But in this trial, Roy Harris, the guy who allegedly took Connie Fleming, remember her by the Tardis Furniture store, He testified again, but this time he said that he saw a man running in downtown white On at nine am s to the ten am and it Miss Fleming was not with him, which was a totally different story than he had told the first time. So he was trying to have in trouble remembering his own life, so he

said that an hour later. It is hard when you lie to remember them sometimes, so he said that an hour later, round ten, Fleming had asked him to take her to Tardy Furniture, but she changed her mind. They turned around before even arriving, another change, so nothing was consistent. So Cleming Fleming's is cousins Latarsia bliss Set and Stacy Wright both testified that Fleming admitted to them that she

had not seen you running from the store. Fleming's sister, mary Ella, also testified, saying that Fleming came to her house on the morning of the murders and a friend stopped over to tell them that Birtha Tardy had been killed. Mary Ella testified that she and Fleming went to Tardy Furniture, but that Fleming never mentioned seeing you that morning. There's

so many holes in this, like Swiss cheese pieces. Defense also called your defense called Odel Holman Jr. Who was the brother of Patricia Halmon who testified in the first trial, and Odell Mr. Hellman Jr. Who was imprisoned on a probation violation for aggravated assault, testified that Patricia was lying, doing so at his suggestion in an attempt to cash in on the reward. The pieces are just falling off this puzzle. Nonetheless, you were convicted again on March thirty,

convicted of capital murder and got death penalty again. So now we get to the reversals. In December of two thousand, the Mississippi Supreme Court reversed your first conviction. I ordered a new trial. Now, no mention was made of the racially biased jury selection, which is odd, But they did hold that your trial was unfair because the prosecution presented evidence of all four murders when you were only being tried for the murder of Miss Hardy. This led to

the jury's exposure to inflammatory and prejudicial evidence. Sure they thought you were like a mass killer, right, they were price scarity. The court also noted that evans cross examination included questions that had no basis in fact and that we're in poor faith. Evans also presented information that was never in evidence. Now for the Mississippi Supreme Court to say, it's pretty strong. So in April two thousand and three, now the Mississippi Supreme Court also reversed your conviction for Mr.

Stewart's murder. The court found the same issues in the first trial, naturally because it was the same prosecutor and in the same dirty tricks, emphasizing that your right to a fair trial was impossible due to the prosecution including evidence from the other murders. But still they didn't mention the racially biased jury selection, which would seem to be

the most obvious thing of all. But at least they got it right for the well, they didn't get all the reasons, but they got it right for one of the reasons, or two of the reason, whatever it is. But due to these two reversals, the prosecution now decided they would do with your defense lawyer had asked for all these years ago, which was to consolidate the four cases. So trial three February two thousand and four. Now you're being tried for all four murders. This trial was this

was held in Montgomery County. Now why is it? Why are we laughing? Because that's started. They moved it out of one owner then and brought it back to one on. So now all of a sudden, it's okay to try you back and wait, no, no, okay. During jury selection, the prosecution used seven of their challenges to get rid of black jurors. The defense objected correctly and contending that it was racially motivated. Could have been a coincidence, but sure do seem like it. The prosecution then used its

remaining five run through challenges black people as well. The jury was ultimately composed, you guessed it, eleven white jurors at one black jury, and the one black person that managed to get on this jury was only selected because again, I don't want to insult anybody's intelligence, because you're gonna know this before I say it, but it's because they

ran out of pensery challenges. The prosecution couldn't get rid of the last black person, so that person was was put on the jury, and the court ruled that this was not racially discriminatory, that they just happened to use all twelve of their challenges to get rid of black people. Crazy coincidence, though, say, and this trial was similar to the first two, but this time Mr Hallman Jr. Remember

Odell Hallman Jr. Testified for the prosecution. He said that while he was in prison, you confessed to him that you committed the murders. And it wasn't until much later that we found out what his little deal was. Right, and it's crazy you right, because everybody that watches TV knows you can't bribe a witness, right, you go to jail for that ship. But they don't. They can drive all the witnesses they want, they want, and they got

better bribes than anybody the outside could possibly have. I don't care if you go to somebody to say I give you a million knowledge, testify the way I want you to, they can say I'll let you out of prison exactly in his case, that's what happened. Oh boy, Okay. So February two thousand and four, the jury convicted you of all four counts of capital murder under sentence to death. Again part of leaders sitting here many times it even sends the death here. You strike me as easy to

love and hard to kill. But that's just me, okay. Anyway. Three years later, on February first, two thousand and seven, here goes again, the Mississippi Supreme Court reversed the convictions again and ordered a new trial. The court found that prosecution was racially discriminatory and jury selection, this time noting that the case was and I quote as strong as a prima facie case of racial discriminated as we have ever seen. That's powerful in Mississippi or anywhere. But that's crazy.

So okay, now they try you again, call me kookie, But I don't think the same prosecutors should be allowed to just keep trying the same personal true again. I think that might be some way you want to take a look at. But this time the jury consisted of

seven white and five black jurors. They gave me a little December fIF thousand seven, a miss trial was declared as the jury could not reach a verdict and get ready for another shocker surprise ending seven white numbers of the jury voted to convict and the five black members voted to a quit. I don't even have the right words for that. So here comes trial number five, September two thousand eight. This time the jury was made up

of nine white and three black members. The jury ended up in another mistrial, this time voting eleven to one to convict. The one the centing person was a black person. And comes trial number six and summer of two thousand and ten, And this time the jury was composed of eleven white in one black member, and they found you guilty on all four accounts of capital murder. Again on June eighteenth to two thousand and ten and sends you to death again. And now we get to the post

post post post post post. It took me a long time just to say that, and you had to live it. It's conviction litigation. So you were represented now by Kireweebel and Sherry Lynn Johnson from the Cornell Law School Death Penalty Clinic, and they appealed your conviction and in two thousand fourteen, the Mississippi Supreme Court upheld the convictions and

death sentence. Is it. The team sought review in the U. S. Supreme Court and in two thousand sixteen they ordered the Mississippi Supreme Court to review the possibly racially discriminatory jury selection. In November two thousand seventeen, that was ruled I'm getting the jails again. It was ruled by a five to four vote that there was no discrimination. Um, the most polite way I can think of to say, this is

what the fun they're talking about? I think I think I did say it that way went out for her that you know, it's sad, it really is. But your team appealed to the U. S. Supreme Court again, and this is when American Public Media a PM started their investigation, and they did as we talked about the podcast in the Dark, and this podcast began in May two thousand eighteen, and it was a big hit, a big, big hit, and the things they uncovered shocking. Fleming now said her

testimonies and all that the trial relies. She confessed that quote the whole this is her quote. The whole time, I've been telling them, I don't remember the day. The whole time I've been telling them, I don't remember the day. I've been confused of the day from the beginning. I just didn't know how to say it. I was scared I was going to jail. Wow, okay. Odell Hallman also recanting, saying that everything was all make believe on his part, and he also said that Evans dropped the drug charges

penning against him and offered him other legal assistance. Roy Harris, who was the friend and driver of Clemmie Fleming, told the podcast that police had showed him a photo of you, and Harris said that the man he saw running away was not you exactly. Eventually he thought he was going to get arrested if he didn't say it was you,

So we did. Edward mccristian also recanted his testimony that he was sitting on the porch at seven th eight am when you supposedly allegedly walked past his house from your uncle Doyle Simpson's workplace, the garment factory, where the testimony had tied you to the alleged stolen gun. So all those lies are now unraveling. So in June two thousand and nineteen, the U. S. Supreme Court reversed your convictions and death sentences by a vote of seven to two.

That's amazing. It ruled that the prosecution had engaged in racially discriminatory jury selection because they had struck forty one of the forty two black perspective jurors in the six trials combined. So shery Lyn Johnson had made the argument that led to the U. Supreme Court decision to reversee. She argued that your case should be dismissed and not

brought to a seventh trial. Should be obvious to anybody, as you had already spent over twenty years now on death row, and that the evidence against you was basically advantaged. It was not exist it never had existed, but now

it has proven that it had never existed. The watching d C law firm of Hogan Lovell's, as well as the friend of the show, the director of the Mississippi Innocence Project, Tucker Carrington at the Mississippi Office of Post Conviction Council, got involved, as well as attorneys Rob McDuff we know him, and Henderson Hill. They all began preparing for a possible retrial. Now you had the Dream Team

Avengers yea. And in December sixty nineteen you were finally released to home confinement to wait for your seventh trial. This had been almost twenty three years in prison, right right, What do you remember about that day? I was nervous, you know, you know I would have been so close to home all the years and never made it, you know. And at that time, I was like, I don't see him giving me bail, letting me go home, you know, until they decide what they want to do, where they

want to have a seventh trial or not. But we got in the courtroom, you know, and the Gifts didn't even show up that day. He's sending his assistant, Jorge Lober talking. He got started in about the d A not showing up. You know, I would expect him to be here, you know. And and the more he talked, the bet I felt. And when we talked about the and and he said, you know, at this time, you know, I am going to Grantville. Where'd you're going? Text is back to Plano Plano two sisters. Yes, what was your

first meal when you got out? Oh? Man? I had fried fish, catfish, hush public french fried coldslaw. And he was a funny thing too, be called. We were in the restroom, me, my brother in law and has been like seven and eight other guy. So I'm standing at the urinal and you know, relieved myself. So I get through. I'm looking for the handle, and everybody was saying, just just walk away. I said, no, that's rude. You don't leak in a urinal and just walk away. I said

later on that could start smelling. You know, everybody, Hey, just walk away. I stepped back and flushed itself and I had to walk back up to it and look at it, you know. And one of the guys in there, the white guy, he said, I don't know where you're being, but you've been going for a long time. As I yes, I am, and I'm watching my hand and as my brother and I walked back through the restaurant dry my hands and everything, people would just stop at me, It's

gonna be okay, And I guess they would. They gotten told the wives and everything about what happened in the bathroom, you know, and people just tell me it's gonna be okay. Yes, I mean, And it was funny and emotion at the same time. On December sixteen, you were released to home confinement waiting for the seventh trial, like we talked about. And then in January, Evans stepped off the case and

the Attorney General's office began reviewing it. So and sure enough, on September four, Mississippi Attorney General Lynn Fitch announced that the charges were going to be dismissed, and you stated, I'm now I'm gonna quote you even though you're sitting right here in front of me. Today, I am finally free from the injustice that left me locked in a box for twenty three year. Oh. I felt like doing flips. You know, big guy like me shouldn't be doing flips.

But but it's happiness. I can't even describe. You're here, Jewish Loper say, you know I dismissed this case with prejudice. M hm, yes, and you know, and at the time the words didn't wring on me. And someone told me he said, when he said with prejudice, that means that they can never try you again. Yeah, that's beautiful and it's funny because prejudice is usually a bad word. Is the only instance I can think of when it's a

good word. So in the meantime, it's great to see you out here living your best life, married, you know, traveling. What can our listeners do to show support. I do have a go fund me out there, so yes, we'll have it linked in the bio. So now, Mr Flowers, we have a segment of our show that I love the most, which is called Closing Arguments. It works like this. First of all, I again thank you for just being you and and being here in the studio with me.

And then I turned my microphone off, kick back in my chair and sometimes I close my eyes and just listen to anything else you have to say. It's called closing arguments, and you have the mike and you can just talk about anything you think you want to share. But I would first like to thank you all for having me. Uh, and I think you also got I really do and look forward to hanging out with you. To all the listeners are I asked that we strive a change, you know, and and make this a better place.

I think we all should get along and love one another and not hate for no reason at all. You know. Uh, I'm gonna lead back guy. I'm easy to get along with. I would like to send shout out to all the victims, family and and I hope one day soon did they find the real guy. Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam. Please support your local innocence projects and go to the link in our bio to see how you can help. I'd like to thank our production

team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne and Kevin Warns. The music on the show, as always, is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one