#197 Jason Flom with Enes Kanter

of authoritarian leadership back at home. Turkish President Restip Urdwan's rule in Turkey started off in a promising direction, but soon devolved into corruption and authoritarianism as he shunned his party's political allies in the Ghoulan Movement, eventually labeling them

a terrorist organization bent on taking over the government. Since then, over fifty thousand members of the Ghulan Movement have been arrested for nothing more than their political affiliation and his Cantor began using his platform as an NBA player to draw international attention to this dire situation, making him a wanted man in his beloved Turkey. Since efforts to silence nists have failed, Urdawan has brought down his ire instead

upon Ennis's father. In two thousand eighteen, doctor Mehmett Cantor was sent to prison on false charges of terrorism. Ultimately, Sunlight proved to be the best disinfectant. When Ennis was able to use his platform as an NBA star to win his father's freedom, but he is keen to remind us that there are so many more political prisoners still suffering through the authoritarian rule of Urnawan. This is wrongful Conviction with Jason Plot. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction. Today's

guest was wrongful convicted and absentia. His father was also wrongfully convicted. All of this happened in a foreign country, and all of it happened while he was playing in the NBA. So without further please allow me to introduce my friend, and it's Cantor, and it's welcome to wrongful Conviction. Thank you for having him. I really appreciate it. And and it's what a life, short life. I mean, you're not only born. You're like a kid to me, you know, um, but what a life you have led and what a

courageous person you are. And we're going to get into all of that, but before we do, let's go back to the beginning. First of all, I think most people don't know you were born actually not in Turkey, in Switzerland, right, Yes, I wanted Switzerland. My dad was doing his master I stayed there for nine months and then I moved back to Turkey. And your father is doctor Memit Cantor with a professor of genetics, medical doctor, right, and you know

we'll tell us about him. I mean he's a genetic professor. Obviously. He was all about education. And you know, I was told that all my classmates, you know, my classmates or my teammates were always making fun of me and said, hey, your dad at you know, play with your jeans, that's what you're so tall. But he was always all about education. He actually did not want me to play basketball at all. You know. He was telling me to hey, you know,

your mom's a nurse. He's a jenic professor, so you are going to be a doctor or you're going to be a professor one day. Just stop wasting your time playing basketball. I told him that, listen that you know, I want to play basketball, but you know, go to school same time, and I can't do both. And he was like, okay, I'll give you a chance. If your grades are not good, you're couldn't basketball. I think your father and my father would have gotten a long grade.

I wish my dad was still alive to meet him, to understand and it's story, you should understand a few things about Turkish history and politics. The Republic of Turkey formally the Ottoman Empire, has a very rich and tumultuous history, leaving a varying religious and ethnic identity in its wake. Just before World War One, a coupe brought about a constitutional democracy that saw to unite the diverse population under

one national Turkish identity. This assertive secularism was problematic for the many faithful, who saw their religious identity shunned in public. Over the last century, this conflict between secularism and religious freedom has given rise to movements rivaling the secular, military, and intellectual elites. One such political group, the Ghoulan Movement, found a tactical political ally in the center right Religion Friendly, Justice and Development Party, also known as the AKP of

resep Urdwan. That alliance brought the AKP to power and proved fruitful for the Ghulan movement, seeing many Gulan appointments in the judiciary and law enforcement until Urduan and the AKP began to consolidate power and devolved into corruption and authoritarianism. Any investigation into that corruption was met with wild accusations

of a witch hunt and a judicial coup. The akp and Urduwan has since falsely labeled the Ghoulan movement a terrorist organized a purging thousands from their political appointments and arresting and persecuting over fifty thousand members of the peaceful Google and movement. Now what does it mean? I know that you're educated at his met affiliated schools which were part of the Ghoulan movement. Now can you explain why that's significant? First of all, that he's met the world

itself means like serve. You know, it's a global you know social movement focuses on a three things secular education, fightermit poverty and social harmony around the globe and obviously inspired by an Islamic scholar, Fetula Golan, and he inspired millions of people around the world to open up you know, modern and secular schools and relief organizations. You know, the Gula Movements school in Turkey was the best schools in the whole country. Even I believed kids were going to

the schools. You actually became acquainted with Patula Gulan, who has become the focal point of so much international intrigue and of course, your association with him probably was one of the things that put you in the cross hairs. You know, I remember first time meeting him, I believe it was back in two thousand thirteen. I was very curious about who this man, you know, behind all this.

I took a trip to Pennsylvania to meet him with one of my friends, and you know, I still remember one thing that he told me that still inspires me every day. He's like, it doesn't matter what your background is, it doesn't matter what your belief your religion, your skin color. Is the most important thing in life is live your differences on the table and trying to find what we have in common. And he believes we have lots of problems are happening around the world because of uneducated people.

You know, he's an his own scholar. But instead of him going around and build a mosques, he believed in education. And you know this moment have now schools and cultural centers. I believe, over one and seventy country in the world. And these organizations are not just for Muslim people. You know, you're a Jewish, you're Christian, Catholic, or your Muslim. You believe in God, you don't believe in God. You can go to these schools or these organizations and learn about

method science or about life, you know. So, the ghoule and Movement and the currently ruling Justice and Development Party or a KP that of course is urda One's party were at one point allied, and at that time they championed the American quote unquote style of secularism that supported individual rights to freedom of religion over what we call assertive secularism. And they formed a tactical alliance in order to defeat their common foes through political means, which were

the military leaders and the secular elitists. All of that sounds good, right, but then things took a turn in a very dark direction. And can you explain how that happened to this country that you grew up in and that I'm sure you loved and probably still loved to this day. So actually, Mr Guillan and ar don't you know, they have a couple of pictures together, but they were really never allies. Media wanted to make it look like

they were allies, but they were never allies. And also untill two thousand twelve, Aardon was and he's going for democracy, He's going for freedom and all that stuff, and that's why lots of the people from you know, Guilla movements, not Julan himself, but the Guilan moment was votant for him. So a lot of people you know, from a KP party and Guilla movement become policemen, judges, or journalists or prosecutors and they were running the country really really well.

So back in two thousand thirteen, that was a big corruptious candell happen in Turkey and president down his family and some of the congressman's close to are do one was involved. And when they cut his voice, when they cut his tape that he stole from people, it was a huge news because they come the whole world just

so that ad On was a crop leader. You can literally go on YouTube and hear every word when he got cut, and obviously he got so mad he wanted to put everyone in jail who was saying that he stole from people. He's a crop leader, you know, So that's why he started putting people in jail, police, judges, prosecutors or media and started the shutdown media outlets, and he started shutting down prep schools in Turkey who are affiliated with Good that moment, and that is the first

time I said something. I'm like, I don't care who you are. If you are fighting against education, I'm going to say something. I tweet something about it, and just because of you know, the platform that I have, it became a conversation in Turkey and America, and I was like, wow,

I just see even power of one tweet. So from now on, I'm going to stop paying attention what's going on my country more because till then I only care about basketball, you know, just make a lot of money, take care of my family, take care of people I love, and just represent my country in America. But after that happened, I'm like, okay, I gotta be just more than a basketball player. And that's the first time I said to something and things just started. And you didn't just say something.

I mean, you talked about other one as a lunatic, a dictator and even compared him with Hitler. So after I said something in two thousand thirteen, you know, things were getting worse and worse. And two thousand fifteen was the last time that I was back in Turkey. I only stayed there for like fourteen days, and I remember whenever I went there. My family were like scared and say, ns and you don't go out alone, you go on somewhere, just go with like a couple of your friends. Let

us know where you're going and stuff. And then you know, that was the last time I saw them before I left my family. I remember that morning I had to sit down conversation which my family with my mom and dad and said, listen, there's a path that I'm taking, and whatever happens, I'm not going to back down. And because of the stand that I'm going to take, you guys are going to get harassed a lot. You guys might be in jail one day, and you guys might be like the most hated family in Turkey. I told

him because I know where the conversations was gone. And I told him was like, listen, if you are with me, then you're with me. If not, then tell me now. So I can, you know, make up my mind and say, okay, I'm alone in this. My mom said, if you are you know, sending up for something good, something right, then we are with you. If not, then we are now with you. And I looked at my dad. My dad did not say a word. He didn't say anything because I'll be honest. All he wanted me to do is

play basketball. And then I left. We call a cap and I remember my mom and my sister want to balcony to like to bade me goodbye, and I get in the cap up. I turned around and they were raven, and I told myself, this is the last time I'm

seeing them. The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode of Ronval Conviction with Jason Flam and of the Last Mile Organization, which provides business and tech training to help incarcerated individuals successfully and permanently re enter the workforce. The Pacers Foundation is committed to improving the lives of Hoosiers across Indiana, supporting organizations that are dedicated primarily to

helping young people and students. For more information on the work of the Pacers Foundation or the Last Mile Program, please visit Pacers Foundation dot org or the Last Mile dot org. This episode is underwritten by the A i G Pro Bono Program. A i G is a leading global insurance company, and for over a decade, the a i G a Bono Program has provided thousands of hours of free legal services and other support to nonprofit organizations

and individuals most in need. More recently, the program added criminal and social justice reform as a key pillar of its mission. Day two thousand sixteen is when or the One sees the Ghoulan newspaper called the Man and and then he recategorized the Ghoulan movement as the Fethula Terrorist Organization UM, which is its gaslighting. Right. He was turning into a terrorist state while calling the peace loving people the terrorists. But but then again, we see that here

in America. Up until you know, Santuary twenty of this year, it looked like we were going down that road. So there was an attempted coup carried out by a factor of the Turkish armforces known as the Peace and Home Council, and everything went really crazy. How many people knows. But the night of the court attempt I was with Mr

Gilland and he was shocked. He couldn't believe it. The first thing he did was called all his friends, all his students to get together and pray for Turkey because that night over two hundred and fifteens and people died after the courtem ared. One came out and blame the Guillan moment for the courtem and that moment. I was like, this is the craziest thing I have ever heard, because I saw what Mr Gilland did with my own eyes that night he sat in his chair and prayed for

his country. And when everyone blamed the guiller moment and Mr Guilland for the courts, and I'm like, I'm gonna do whatever I can to tell this story to the whole world. And the Turkish government got really really mad because there was their plan, you know, the court tempt and then Arduine can pretty much become a one man show.

Put everyone in jail whoever against them, shut down all the media outlets who are whoevers against them, or just put all the journalists and judges and change the military and everything. You know. Since this time, over a hundred thousand Googon followers have been purged from their civil service jobs and over fifty thousand have been arrested so far, you know, and who knows what's become of them. So after the attempted coup is when things started getting really

scary for your family, your immediate family. You know. My dad got fire from each job, and my sister went to medical school for six years. She still cannot find a job. My little brother was playing basketball, and you know, he wanted to be an NBA player, but he was literally getting kicked out in every team because of the same last name. So they were getting affected so much. They had to put a statement out there and saying we are disowned Ennis. But Turkish government did not believe that.

You know. They sent police to my house in Turkey and they rated the whole house and they took a really electronic way for owns computers, leftops and I paid because they wanted to see if I am still in contact with my family or not, if they would see any text message, email, phone call or whatever, they will be all in jail, which they took my dad in jail for a while, but we put so much pressure from here the Turkey they let him go. You know. I asked my brother like after my dad got out,

like how's my dad doing? And my brother said, we asked him the questions like what happened in there? What do they ask you? What did they do to you? He never talked about it after, you know, he got out of jail. He was just watching the world and acting so weird and stuff. So I don't know what did they doing there to him, but he was just

not the same person. And then, of course in two thousand and seventeen, you know, you were charged with terrorism, convicted in absentia, and you were facing four years in prison, and they came after you. Now this was at a time when and I don't know how. By the way, it's really remarkable to me, maybe basketball is your one place where you can for a couple of hours to and out, nobody can focus on the bad stuff. Twenty

four hours a day, you go insane. So I'm glad that you have basketball, and it's incredible that you're able to focus on it and it continue to exceed expectations the way that you do. But two seventeen, this is the story that you told me overdid it right. So you were on the tour teaching kids, and then in Indonesia she went crazy. So we said, okay, after two thousand and sixteen, we are definitely not going back to Turkey, and my managers like, let's do something for kids, and

let's just go to these countries. Do basketball camp, talk about education, talk about social harmony, healthy lifestyle with respecting your parents, we talk about universal peace, and just do basketball camp. Because sports is an amazing tool to bring people together. You know, you can be from different countries, different colors, different days and that whatever, different beliefs, but

you can cheer for the same team. So in two thousand seventeen, we planned to visit seventeen country in like thirty five days, right, we start with Pacific. Visited Japan, Singapore, Philippines. But the same time, obviously my friends were saying, listen, Turkish government is like octopus. They got arms everywhere, so be careful. We visited the seven countries in the pacifics our last one was Indonesia. We held a basketball camp,

we were meeting with Turkish communities, were visiting schools. End of the night, my friend asked me if you want to stay in a school or do you want to stay at the hotel. You know, he showed me a picture of the school. The beds were so small and I'm like, I'm not going to fit here. So while I was at the hotel, I was sleeping. My manager not my door, but like two thirty am, something is

that come to my room. We need to talk. We got a phone call from one of our friends and local in Jakarta is that there are some people in the school. We just had basketball clinic. They're asking for you, but we have no idea who they are. And he's like, what do you want to do. I was like, I want to stay because next day we have so many things as scheduled. He's like, this could be very dangerous.

We need to escape the country. You know. It's very scary to be in a country that you don't know the language, you don't know the culture, you don't know the people there, and you are in danger and you literally trying to escape the whole country, you know. And we look at the flights. Our first flight was I believe five thirty am to Singapore. In fifteen minutes, I

pack everything, we get in the cap. At the same time, while we go on the airport, we are taking a video and send it to our lawyers in America, like if something happens, so they can use that as a proof that we are about to get kidnapped. So we came to the airport, I mean obviously Indonesian, you know, people are not that tall, and everyone asking me questions like, hey, how tol you, what are you doing? Why are you here? So my friend just said to sit down in a

chair and do not get up. I'm just gonna get the tickets and we're gonna leave. We got the tickets and we left the country at five thirty am and we landed in Singapore. My man just like, let's call our local guy there in Jakarta and see, like who was those people came to school that asking for you, And our local guys said, you guys are very lucky because those people they were intelligence service and army and wanted to talk to you, and that talk was not

going to be just at talk. What usually Turkish government does is work with these countries like Malaysia, Indonesia and some of the other countries. You know. They took people there and put an a plane and set it back Toto a Turkey. So if you stay there that night, they could ship us back to the Turkey. And then we're like, okay, let's just go to Europe and do our basketball clinics there and do our events there. Our first stop was in Romania. It was my birthday and

we had this like huge events. Thousands of people were gonna come, but we're gonna do a big events in Romania with some of the Turkish people there. So I gave my passport to this lady. She took like five time minutes and she said, hold on a second. She went in the back. She came out with a police and said, sir, your passport has been revoked. And I was like, hold on a second, why is my passport vote? The police said, we are not allowed to tell you, but if you want to learn more about it, you

can call the Turkish embassy. And I'm like, those are the people who revoke my past, but I'm not gonna call him. So my marriage is like, we literally have like two or three hours to get out of Romania because if not, I'm not an American citizen. I still counted a Turkish city, so they could have just sent me back to Turkey. So we literally like have to three hours left the country. So I guess like the

best way they just go back to America. Right. We're called every person we know, like congressman, senators, even like Texas NBA Players Association. So we getting up a flight. We were gonna land in London and come back to America.

We landed in London and the captain announced and said nobody gets up, and me and my managers like, what's going on the plane doors are open, and there's this two police with machine guns came in the plane and they're looking for someone right, and they took someone behind us. I guess that was like a terrorist or someone in the plane. They took him out, but they took so long that we missed our New York plane. So there's this ticket lady is like, listen, there is no more

flight to New York. You guys have to stay here. Don't worry. I'm gonna give you guys like a hotel and come back in. So we told the ladies, like we cooled, we're going to stay at the airport. And she was just so weirded out. It's like, what do you mean you guys cool. He's like, no, no, no, we're cool. We're gonna stay at the airport. So that

night we stayed at the airport. The next day, on one of our plane, there was this gentleman I still remember him, but like glasses jacket, very serious, like he asked for my green card again, my green card. He took some nose, called some people and he's like, okay go. Later on we learned that he was from Homeland Security. Because I didn't have a passport, so I wasn't going to be able to fly, so like Homeland Secretary got in and then we came in a plane. I was like, man,

this feels home. I Am not living here until I'm become an American citizen and then since then I'm here at any time, for however long it took two days, three days this journey. At any moment, you could have been done and you were facing four years in prison. But we know that that could have turned into very easily a death sentence, torture, or they could have extended it indefinitely because they could do whatever they wanted that country. Right now. I mean, let's face it, so this is

a serious, serious thing that you went through. I mean, I hope you have a good therapist, because I feel like I'm going to need a therapist after listen to this story. You know, so you made it out alive and you got back to American soil. You're safe here. It's hard not to mention the fact that you aren't even able to go and play the Toronto Raptors on an away game because you simply can't leave the country without fear of being extradited to face this four year

sentence or worse. But the Turkish authorities, after failing miserably to apprehend you, well, I'm sure there was help to pay back there for the people who weren't able to

capture you. But they weren't done messing with you. And because they couldn't get you, they decided to extract their revenge on your family, on your father specifically, and in Tune of two thousand eighteen, your dad, doctor Mehmt Cantor, was tried, I'm going to call it a sham trial, charged with terrorism charges right again, the gas lighting bullshit, and sentenced to fifteen years in prison. Of course, he appealed the charges, but that went nowhere, I mean even here.

Those things usually go nowhere. But somehow or other, And I'm amazed by this, you were able to shine a light on this awful injustice and free your father in June of I'm amazed that that campaign was successful. But tell me what this is all about and how this affected you and how you were able to get him home? Right, I mean, so he was He's being going in a out of jails and in a lot of Turkish courts for years and years, right, So they were so scared of what I was like saying a band my Twitter

account in Turkey. So if you go to Turkey right now and try to check what I tweeter or anythink you cannot see whatever I'm saying. But I'm like, okay, right now, what can I do to bring more awareness

to discounts. So that's why I started to work with some of the politicians, And you know, I want to do see many times and whenever I sit down and have a conversation with both sides, you know, Republicans and Democrats, and I started to tell them about my story, tell them about the people who are facing the same situation. They were like, we already know this conversation. Tell us how can we help you? And that actually gave me

so much hope. So I started working with politicians, working with senators, working with congressman's and congresswoman's media really helped us, not just in America, but you know internationally, really really helped us to bring awareness of what's really going on in the Turkey. So and then you know, like we put so much pressure on them every time they touched my father or or every time my dad was about to go in to jail or going to a trial.

We were bringing so much awareness to it. You know, we were writing offense about it, we were talking to media about it. And then in two thousand and twenty, my brother, the one in Greece he plays basketball now, finally texted me and said, my dad is free. They got to a point that were so scared they had to let him go. And you know a lot of people are like a lot of my teammates and friends have texted me and said, hey, man, you can finally relaxed.

Now take a vacation. You can finally, you know, focus on yourself. But I was like, no, my fight is just getting started. You know, my family was only one. I never just did. They still only free my father. There are so many people out there. Their situation is way worse than my father's. Turkey is there still number one country in the world that proved most journalists in the jail. You know, we are just getting started. We are not going to stop till every innocent person in

those prisons are free. Amen to that. It's a nightmare I can't even begin to imagine. And it's going to require people like you, people of good conscience, with courage and conviction is the only word I could think of. Ironically, who are going to ultimately bring about this change. It's the only thing that ever does, and otherwise it's going

to say the same and get worse. Of course, we're gonna put links in the bio for people to learn more about this fast moving but slow motion nightmare that's taking place for so many people in that beautiful country of Turkey. And now we come to the part of our show, which is a segment that we call closing Arguments. It's the part of the show where first of all, I thank you and it Scantor for coming here, taking your time and sharing your remarkable journey, which is still

unfolding as we speak. And then I turned my microphone off and leave yours on. This is the part of the show where you get to say whatever you want, anything that's been left unsaid, anything you want to tell people. But please, as part of that offer any advice you can give to people who are listening. Say I'm just one person I want to help, and I don't know what to do. What can I what can people do to help? First of all, I think you know, just

there's not just one authoritarian regime in the world. You know, Turkey is not the only one. There are so many of them authors in the world that I feel like the best that we can do is just standing up against those regimes. That is the one question I was always getting, like what can we do to help? So that's why we started this initiative called you Are My

Hoping campaign. We are planning to collect signatures. You can go to you are My Hope dot org and sign the initiative and with those signatures, we are planning to take them to a White House, United Nations, human right courts, maybe European Parliament and says listen, there are so many human right abuses are happening in Turkey. There are so many political prisoners, and there are so many journalists are in the general now waiting for help. There are thousands

of people are behind this cows. There are so many signatures behind the cows. So let's take some action. That is the one thing you guys can do. It will take one minute of your day. You are my Hope out or and signed the initiative. We already got over

eighty tho signatures so far. But other than that, I feel like the best way to just beat those regimes just educate yourself because they're really scared of educated people because they only want yes mens around them, and people who's not gonna ask any questions and do whatever they want them to do. You know, I feel like the education is the best way to just beat those regimes. Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction with Jason Flam.

Please support your local innocence projects and go to the link in our bio to see how you can help. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne and Kevin Warns. The music on the show, as always, is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number one h