On November twelfth, nineteen ninety five, Brenda Way's body was discovered behind a dumpster in Dartmouth.
Nova Scotia.
Her throat had been slit with a solid alibi. The initial investigation cleared her ex boyfriend Glennis Soon of the murder, but nearly a year later a new investigator was assigned to this cold case, who used the ramblings of a crack addict seeking leniency in order to bring Glenn back into suspicion. The investigation continued down an increasingly ridiculous path,
involving psychics and even more crack addicts. While there was evidence pointing toward a bearded serial killer the entire time, police both disregarded and hid that evidence, though, choosing to stay with the course they knew was a farce, and Glenn spent over sixteen long, miserable years behind bars until Innocence Canada was able to unearth that detail and spring and from prison. However, nothing will ever replace all of the years. Is doolan from Glenn and his family. This
is wrongful conviction with Jason Plomm. Welcome back to wrongful conviction with Jason Flamm. That's me, of course, I'm your host, and today you're going to hear a story from north of the border. We have two incredible lawyers, Sean McDonald and Phil Campbell from Innocence Canada. Sean, first of all, welcome to Wrongful Conviction. Thanks for being here.
Thanks very much for having me.
And Phil, I'm so glad that you're here as well to highlight the work that Innocence Canada does because I don't believe that this organization gets enough attention and we want to change that. So thanks for being here as well.
Thanks so much.
Jason, and of course, save the best for last. We have a guy who I can only call a hero to so many of us, Glenn as Soon, who went to hell and back and is here to share his story with us. So Glenn, thank you for being here. Thank you.
I'm glad to be here.
Yeah, it's sort of a miracle that you made it through and that you are here, and it speaks to your strength and your spirit. So I'm really excited that you're here and I'm sorry you had to go through this. Let's go back to the beginning, Glenn, where did you grow up?
I grew up in Sydney, k Breton, Nova, Scotia. It's a small town.
And how was your life before this? What were some of your hobbies.
My hobbies was playing a guitar, try to learn how to play the guitar properly and stuff. Listen to country music and trying to play country music.
And you were raising a pretty large family as well at the time, right.
Yes, I had three kids to raise back in the seventies.
And then everything went to hell in a handbasket. We're talking about Sunday morning, November twelfth, nineteen ninety five, your ex girlfriend, Brenda Way, was discovered behind an apartment building in Dartmouth, Nova, Scotia, and her throat had been slit. Even I think for avid listeners of the show who've heard so many of these stories, this one is fucking sick. Now, this is where I want to turn to the legal team because the preventable nature of all of this is
so stunning to me. Tell me what the hell happened here?
So at the beginning, police rightfully interviewed all the people that had contact with Brenda Way. They interviewed Glenn. They determined that he had an ALBI. He was with his roommate and friend and Morse all night with two other
roommates that night. So he had a supportable, credible, truthful, most importantly alibi, and in the end it appeared to us, at least on the record that we reviewed, that they cleared him as a suspect or at least deprioritized him as a person of interest and moved on to look at other things.
Yeah, so we had this excellent alibi within hours of the discovery of the body, and sometime in the year or two afterwards, the brenda Way homicide shifted to two different officers, and those two guys decided that Glennisoon must have done it. And really it's a kind of classic example of the tunnel vision that so often characterizes wrongful convictions. Well, you stop investigating a crime and you start investigating a person. And once they'd fixed on Glenn, the first thing they
had to do was discredit the alibi. So they pulled in Anne Morse, who had told the truth. They arrested her for obstruction of justice for having told the truth. They told her she was going to jail for three to five years. They intimidated her, and then they finally persuaded her that maybe she couldn't know, and maybe she wasn't sure, even though she had always said before then, it has always said afterwards that that statement I gave the morning Brenda was found was the truth. So they
thought they had a little c the alibi. And then they started finding recruiting other witnesses, and there was just a daisy chain of witnesses, each less credible than the other, but collectively they made up the case that the Crown eventually put in front of the jewelry.
It's like they send in the clowns, right. One farcical witness after another is dragged into this. Can you walk us through this cast of characters real quick?
Glenn was hitting the streets after Brenda was killed, trying to find out who killed her. One of the people Glenn was regularly speaking with was a woman by the name of Margaret Hartrick. Margaret was a well known street prostitute. Now it's interesting because at different times Margaret Hartrick would call Glenn and say I have information on Brenda's murder. And there were a number of occasions where Glenn brought Margaret to the attention of the police because she was
telling him I know what happened. I'm hearing on the streets. What's happening, and Glenn was saying, well, you know, tell the police. Eventually was picked up by the police in relation to a customer of hers who had died, and while she was speaking to the police about this, she said to them, well, I also have information on Brenda
Way's homicide. And so the police officer said, okay, well you know what do you have to say, and they sat her down and she started to go on this rambling die tribe about psychic visions and psychic dreams that she had where she saw areas of Dartmouth where Brenda was taken by different people and how she was killed, to the point where the cops just said, look, thanks for the information, and they started to shuffle her out the door, or at least that this is the way
they recall the conversation and when they testified at Glenn's trial, and then Margaret suddenly said, well, I guess you don't care that Glenn was at the site of the murder at four point fifteen am and the morning Brenda was killed.
So suddenly they're saying that she's changing her evidence. After forty five minutes of psychic ramblings, after months and months of ramblings, with Glenn to the police and puts Glenn at the scene of the murder, inconsistent with the alibi that they already checked out and found to be credible. And that was the moment where the new officers investigating this case had their witness. The investigation increased in pace from that point forward.
The next development was the emergence of Brenda's sister, Jane. Jane told the police that she had found a knife, and she said that she had been looking for the knife near the scene of the crime, which had been thoroughly searched by police, because a psychic had told her that her sister was killed by a broken tipped knife, and lo and behold, she had gone out, looked around the area adjacent to the murder and found a broken
tipped knife. The police would ultimately seize this knife. The knife would have no forensic evidence that tied it either to the homicide or to Glennis soon but it ultimately became an exhibited trial and it became the focal point of the next key witness's story, and that is a woman named Mary Cameron. Mary Cameron was, unsurprisingly to us, a friend of Jane, the sister, and she popped up to the police with a story that she had been with a friend of hers and Glenn had walked in
and said, I killed her. I got her ear to ear, I cut her so hard I broke off the tip of the knife. This is a confession. He supposedly volunteers in front of a complete stranger, and Mary becomes the next crown witness, even though the woman who she was with her friend, who also knew Glenn, flatly denied that any such conversation had taken place. So that's Margaret and now Mary. So.
Brenda's cousin is a woman by the name of Karen Way. Karen, within two weeks of the murder, was at a bar with her boyfriend and heard two guys walking down the bar in this dark, seedy bar in Dartmouth, one guy telling the other guy, you should have seen the look on Brenda Way's face when I slid her throat. And the guy who said it was a burly guy with dark hair and a beard, and it was so disturbing to Karen. Karen calls the police. Police show up and
they do nothing. They take a report. That report gets filed. The officers did not go back to Karen Wade to try and talk to her about what she saw. They didn't go to the bar, they didn't look at cameras around the bar, they didn't do anything. And that description very closely tracks the description of Michael Wayne McGray, who is a serial killer currently doing life in prison, I think for seven murders or maybe eight that he's confessed
to so far. The detective that investigated Glenn didn't give a crap about that evidence. Nothing was done with it.
It's so sickening because, aside from the grotesque injustice that was done to Glenn and his family, all they had to do was follow up on that and then the rest of this mayhem could have been avoided and these other victims would never have known the terrible fate that befell them. So it's just sickening. It doesn't make any sense.
It's never going to make any sense. But Glenn, back to you, So back in March of nineteen ninety eight, you surrendered to the police, right, and you still maintained that this was just going to get worked out because you was somebody who I presuming believed in the justice system.
Yeah, I thought it was going to be worked out in two weeks time at the tops because I knew I was innocent. I knew they were making a mistake. But I found out that there was a Candon wide warrantone for me, So I turned myself into the RCMP. They arrested me. They took me on a plane, took me back to Nova Scotia, and I was never so embarrassing all my life since shackles and chains. Going to an airport. It was clogg full of people. It's just all happened so fast.
So they gave you a polygraph. You passed a polygraph, but of course they ignored that as well, and you were smart enough to see what they were up to, which is why you requested a lawyer. But now it takes a crazy turn in the courtroom, and Sean, if you could take us through.
That, Glenn didn't see eyed eye with the lawyer that he had. Glenn's approach was pretty simple, I'm innocent. Bring everybody in that you can find to say whatever they have to say, because the truth will show the jury that I didn't commit this murder. And that created tension between him and his lawyer. That hit a crescendo and Glenn fired his lawyer at the very beginning of a long jury trial of four second degree murder, and at that point Glenn was granted a short adjournment to try
and find another lawyer. However, inmates inside of correctional facilities can't just go to a phone anytime they want, pick it up and dial a lawyer. They've got to have somebody accept a cleck call. On the other end. They have to have a lawyer who's willing to talk to them, and they have to have a lawyer who's capable and has the time to prepare for a murder trial. And in Glenn's case, those things didn't align and the court lost patience with him, and the judge said, I'm not
giving you any more time. You're going to represent yourself with a grade six education and don't worry about it. Everybody has to have their first case, and that is when Glenn's trial started.
This is basically like asking someone to go perform surgery on themselves. I mean, I think that's not an unfair comparison, because the odds of success are about the same. And at one point, Glenn, you told the jury you're innocent, and that evidence was being hidden from them all of which was true. And then the judge ordered the sheriffs to physically cover your mouth and drag you out of the courtroom in front of the jury as you screamed
out your innocence. It's a fucking horror show. What was that like from your perspective?
I said to myself, I need a lawyer. I can't do this. So I decided when the judge came in, I'm gonna tell her that I need a lawyer. So long story short, I had no idea that you can speak in front of the jury. And I stood up and said, your honor, I'm an innocent man.
I need a lawyer.
She said, take him out.
Take him out.
So two sheriffs dragged me across the courtroom floor and right in front of the jury. The judge said, if I hear any more outbursts of you, miss or as soon you'll be watching your trial tow circuit camera. All I could do is stay up all night and read statements and write out questions to ask these people say if I get them in their lives. Every time I would get to a point where I was putting them in a corner where they had no choice to tell the truth. To crown and object and clear the courtroom.
I don't know how many times the jury was cleared in the courtroom, several and I was exhausted, but I kept on going through.
It, and of course the results were predictable. September seventeenth, nineteen ninety nine, the jury went out and they found you guilty of second degree murder. And can you describe that horrible moment for us?
It was a field never felt before. And I stood up and said, I'm wrongly convicted. Now it's official. And she objected to it. She said, mister Sonia had your chance to testify and trials over. Now you can't be talking. I knew I was being railroads, Railroads to hell.
This episode is underwritten by the AIG pro Bono Program. AIG is a leading global insurance company, and for over a decade, the AIG pro Bono Program has provided thousands of hours of free legal services and other support to nonprofit organizations and individuals most in need. More recently, the program added criminal and social justice reform as a key pillar of its mission. This episode is brought to you by Stand Together. Stand Together is a philanthropic community dedicated
to helping people improve their lives. For more than twenty years, Stand Together and its partners have been on the front lines of criminal justice reform. By empowering people to take action, supporting nonprofits, and working with businesses, Stand Together tackles the root causes of problems in our communities and empowers those
closest to the problems to drive solutions. Solutions like reducing unjust prison sentences through the First Step Act, empowering community based programs and help people re enter society, and now working to bridge divides in our communities. To learn how you may get involved, visit standtogether dot org slash conviction. There you are sentenced to eighteen and a half years
to life on December thirteenth of nineteen ninety nine. I think many people in the United States have a vision of Canada as a peaceful place with a more just system that is violent perhaps, But in fact the prisons there are just as bad as here, and you were sent to one of the worst ones. Is that correct? That's correct?
And I went to Dorchester Penitentiary and that's the last I had seen any scenery because of the forty five foot wall around the place. And that's all I seen, is that wall. And it was dangerous there for me. I almost got killed there a dozen times. I was telling anybody and everybody who would listen to me, because I'm an innocent man. They made a mistake. So I knew a guy in there who has done leather work. I had a hat with just a blank hat, and I got him to make up a patch on my hat.
Wrongly convicted nineteen ninety eight. And I wore that hat around the prison until I wore it out, and then the guards took it from me. The guards came to me one day and they said, we're putting you in the hole. I said, why he put me in the hole? I didn't do anything. So they handcuffed me, took me down the hole. They got me in there, and they shoved me against the wall and they got me on the floor, and I was still handcuffed behind my back.
Mind you, and this guard, he would weighed about two hundred seventy five pounds, he was beat me with the It looks like I was seeing a steel pipe. So he was beat me over the head with that and he broke my ankles with it. And they cut the clothes off me right there with a pair of scissors while I was still laying in my face taking a beaten, and they beat me half to dead, and then they took me into a camera cell and just left me there for about five hours. The only thing I had
on me was my underwear. They cut the boots off of me and everything. The only thing was in there was a toilet and the sink, and the sink didn't work, so the toilet did. I was beat so bad I flushed the toilet a few times and I drank water the toilet. I was so dehydrated from the beaten that it took me.
I mean, it's hard to even hear this story, and I just, you know, I want to apologize to you on behalf of you know, the entire human race, because nobody should ever be subjected to a fraction of what you went through. And you had to go through all of it. And here you are a guy that I think a lot of people can probably late to you more than you know. I mean, here you are a guy in your forties, five 'ot five, one hundred and forty pounds, no history of violence, no ability to navigate
this foreign situation that you're thrust into. It's literally something out of a movie that would give anybody nightmares, and you went through it, but somehow or other, you got through it, and then you know, things eventually turned around. How did Innocence Canada become aware of the case and how did you manage to unravel this insanity?
Added around two thousand and six, I was in the Innocence Canada office for a meeting with our executive director, and I had some time to kill and I was sitting in the boardroom. And in the boardroom at Innocence Canada, like most innocence organizations across the country or the world, there's boxes of documents and memos everywhere. So I happened to pick one up and it was a memo written by a lawyer at Innocence Canada by the name of
Jerome Kennedy. And Jerome had represented Glenn a year beforehand on his appeal. And as I turned the pages, as everybody does with this case, I got madder, and I got madder and I got madder, And by the time I finished that overview memo, I was in And from that point forward, I knew that I wasn't going to start I wasn't going to stop working on Glenn's case until we were able to get them justice.
So I looked at the five witnesses that were called a trial from the perspective of an appellate lawyer, and Mary Cameron was the strongest crown or prosecution witness. But Sean did some digging on her and eventually she signed an affidavit that took back most of her evidence, and Kathy Vlad, who had witnessed the supposed confession, made it
very clear that nothing like that had ever happened. We managed to develop links between the sister of Brenda, Jane, who was led by the psychic to the knife, with the three core witnesses in the case. Each of them had connections to Jane or to her family, and so the thing started to crumble. But critical to it was a girl who also worked the streets of Halifax and who experienced something dreadful in the winter of nineteen ninety
six ninety seven. We call her Meghan. That's a pseudonym, but Megan had been picked up by a burly man with dark hair and a dark beard, and he had taken her out to an industrial site in the middle of winter at night in the dark, assaulted her and raped her and then rather than killing her, drove her back into the city and in the course of that
admitted that he was the killer of Brenda Way. Glenn had been brought back from British Columbia in the spring of nineteen ninety nine, in a blaze of local publicity, arrested for the murder of Brendaway. Meghan had seen that on TV and said, well, that must be the guy
who assaulted me and confessed to killing Brendaway. And so she went to the police with that story, believing that it was true, although the man she described had striking similarities to the description of themand that Karen Way had heard brag about committing the murder days after it had happened in nineteen ninety five. Glenn, as it turned out, had spent that whole winter when that attack took place in Halifax, on the other coast of Canada, thirty five
hundred miles away, and that could be documented. However, the Crown at trial ran a theory that Glenn had somehow gotten a plane ticket flow into Halifax in the middle of winter, raped Megan, confessed to the murder of Brenda, and then flown back without any other trace no evidence of his presence in Halifax, no evidence of his flight from British Columbia to Halifax. By the time of Glenn's appeal, in the early two thousands, Michael McGray, a burly bearded man,
had been arrested and publicly identified as a serial killer. Indeed, he had shown a propensity to brag about his killings, and he bragged about killings enough that he was quickly
identified as a serial killer. With McGray in custody and publicly known as a serial killer, Jerome Kennedy, acting for Glenn on appeal, asked for disclosure of what the police had on Michael mcgrae, and the police came back with a document that said that he was not viewed as a suspect by the police and the killing of Brenda Way. Jerome tried to advance that to the Court of Appeal, but it had no substance and it was rejected as
a ground of appeal and Glenn's conviction was upheld. So that's the case that we were handed and we thought that Michael McGray looked like a good suspect if we just had more evidence about him. And at that point, Sean, who was a lawyer, but also an on the ground investigator in this case, got in touch with a couple of guys by just working the prison system.
During the course of those inquiries, we found two people who had done time with Michael McGray, and both of those witnesses, independent of one another, none of whom knew Glenn, told us stories about McGray, providing detail of murders that he committed to them while they were in prison together. The story they told was chilling, and it was chilling not only because it demonstrated what we felt we already knew,
which was that Glenn was innocent. They were disturbing because of the detail they provided, and these people had no idea what details attached to Brenda Way's murder. But suddenly we're getting these people giving us AffA Davis providing that detail. We later found out that McGray had lived but one hundred yards away from where the body was found, and we had another witness that came to us and told us they moved out of that apartment McGray and his
girlfriend within forty eight hours of the murder. And not only did they move out, they left their furniture on the front stoop.
So we've got McGray as a very plausible alternative of suspect in this case. Remember Megan, Meghan added one other really striking feature, the only very distinctive feature about her description. She said that the man who had confessed to Brenda's murder while raping and assaulting her, though it was the middle of winter and a very cold night with snow on the ground, was wearing socks and sandals on his feet.
When we began to look at photos of McRae and then talk to these inmates who knew him, it became clear that that was a very well known characteristic of Michael McGray. So we've got a guy who fits the description, including in that unique way, who fits the m O perfectly, and so we were developing that for the Minister of
Justice when something really stunning happened. We got information from your retired ur CMP officer that he had been speaking with another RCMP officer who knew much more than we ever dreamed about Glennis Soon's case and about Michael mcgrae. This fellow was an officer with the Behavioral Profiling Unit of the RCMP in Halifax, and he accumulated every data
point possible about mcgrae. He spent the better part of a year conducting an investigation into McGray, but specifically into the murder of Brenda Way, which by this point was a solved, closed case, and he eventually reached the conclusion that mcgrae or another guy he identified were very probable
killers of Brenda Way, and that Glenisoon was innocent. He had tried his best for months and months to get somebody in either the RCMP which he worked for, or the Halifax Police Service, which had investigated this case, to
do something about it. And remember, Glenn is still before the Court of Appeal while this is happening, and not only that, but Jerome Kennedy, his lawyer, has made a specific request of the prosecution to obtain information about mcgrae to see whether there was anything relevant that he could use on Glen's appeal, and rather than disclosing this information, the report he got back from the Crown, who got it from the police was that there was no relevant
information and McGray was not viewed as a suspect. It is hard to believe, but it is as blatant and as well documented as I have just summarized it. Eventually, we were able to establish exactly what I've just said that is that the police themselves had identified Michael mcgrae as a suspect for the murder Glenn was doing time for, and had suppressed it throughout the appellate process.
I'm going to just go through that again because it's so incredibly just breathtaking in terms of the misconduct. While the Department of Justice was investigating, but unbeknownst to Glenn or his legal team, this police officer, this good cop, conducted a multi year investigation into Glenn's conviction and concluded that he was innocent. He had concluded that a serial killer McGray had lived one hundred yards from the murder scene and was the real killer. Oh my god. And
then it gets worse. So this guy, to his credit, told all of his superiors that he believed there was an innocent man in prison with Glenn, of course, but instead of looking into the claims and freeing Glenn, as they clearly should have done, they transferred this officer from his unit and destroyed the fucking evidence that he had compiled over the course of his investigation. I mean, there's really there's a special place in hell for people who
conducted themselves in this manner. I don't know how else to say it.
Yeah, so in slightly less colorful language, that was our submission to the Minister of Justice.
Well, well, it's a good thing I didn't write it.
So between the information that suggested mcgrae was the killer and the massive constitutional violation represented by the non disclosure of evidence of innocence, we eventually had a very powerful case for first getting Glenn out of jail, which we managed to do in twenty fourteen, and then getting him exonerated, which the Minister of Justice and then the Supreme Court of Nova Scotia did in twenty nineteen.
Glenn, what was it like to walk out of this living tomb that you were in, this torture chamber, into free air for the first time in this century.
It was the happiest day of my life. I couldn't I couldn't be any happier, And it was just astronomical feeling of happiness to be a free man. And I don't know, I can't explain the feeling euphor you that I felt when I first got to my brother's place. The first day I woke up a freeman in a beautiful home. I went outside just to smell the air, and I went out in the backyard and I wouldn't
go overs for about a week. I was too scared to go anywhere because I thought the cops are going to frame me again.
So it took still almost another five years for the full exoneration. And I want to talk to the guys about how good did you feel? How good do you feel today knowing that Glenn is never going back. He's never gonna have to wear an ankle monitor again, He's never going to be subjected to this inhumane system again.
You know.
I think the person who summed it up best was the judge that acquitted Glenn on March the first of twenty nineteen. It was Justice Chipman, and he said, you kept the faith with remarkable dignity and that you are to be commended for your courage and your resilience. You are a freeman. I sincerely wish you every success, And that sort of summed up our feelings to Glenn has been steadfast. I mean, he is now a member of our family. He's not just a client. That's the truth.
You know. I get asked very often two things, whether the people who framed the innocent man or woman faced any disciplinary actions, much less prison for their own misconduct. And whether or not the person who suffered so greatly the exonerated person themselves received any compensation. And I'm assuming the answer to both of those questions in this case is unfortunately no.
So no.
Actually, this case has really taken on an increased significance in Canada anyway, because it is the first case in Canadian history where the Premier, or in other words, of the governor of the province in which the wrongful conviction took place ordered his Attorney general to start in a criminal investigation into the officers who were involved and contributed to the miscarriage of justice and the destruction of the evidence.
So the answer is yes to that, And the second part of your question with respect to compensation is also yes to the credit of Prime Minister Trudeau and Attorney General Lametti and of course the government of Nova Scotia. They came to the table and took this very serious.
They understood that it was an egregious wrongful conviction of sort of historic proportions, and we were able to negotiate a financial compensation package for Glenn that as far as money can contribute, it's going to give him an opportunity to try and as best he can with the years he has left, move on with his life. And you have a pickup truck and a dog and maybe you know a little place in the woods where he can sort of relax and try and find peace to the extent that he can.
Well, that's amazing news and I'm so glad they finally came around on this. But nothing is ever going to make up for all the time lost. Now this does go a long way towards making Glenn more comfortable. As you said, I like the visual with a pickup truck and the dog, but he deserves every blessing that life has to offer. If anyone wants to get involved or help out with the great work that Innocence Canada is doing,
your help would go a long way. So we're going to have a link in the episode bio and you could also follow Innocence Canada on Instagram. Scroll down, click get involved. And now this is as good a time as any to turn to the part of the show called closing arguments. First of all, I want to thank Sean McDonald, Phil Campbell, and most of all Glenn Asson for joining me and us here and sharing your story
and your spirit with our audience. And now I'm going to turn my microphone off, kick back in my chair and just listen as you say whatever you want to say, whatever that's left to say. And let's start with Phil, then Sewan and Glen.
Of course, one of the things I find about innocence cases like Glenn's is that when you look back on them, when you start to unravel them, you see so many places where things could have taken a different turn, where things could have gone right but went wrong. There's never just one thing. There's always a cascade of injustice and error. And when I think back to the original police who had a sound alibi and acted on it and treated it with the seriousness that deserve, that was one place
where things could have gone right but went wrong. When I think back to the trial that Glenn went through, and this was not a contest of equal adversaries, and then I think of the appellate process when the truth not just a glimpse into the truth, but a full dossier on the truth about what I believe is the real killer in this case was a veil to the authorities, and it didn't emerge when you go through that kind of history, you realize what I think is the great
lesson of the criminal law, which is that we should always approach this business of arresting people and charging them with crimes, and putting them on trial and throwing them in jail. We should always approach it humbly, because we are fallible, and our processes, as well refined and carefully reviewed as they are, are fallible. The police we trust,
the prosecutors we trust, the juries we trust. All of those things will fail sometimes, and we are best to go at this whole business of crime and punishment with a lighter, humbler touch. And this case, just to me, illustrates, as so many do, how many ways there are to go wrong, and how vigilant we should be to ensure that things go right.
I look at this case as the evolution of not just a wrongful conviction case, but for me, looking back now more the evolution of a friendship, in the friendship that I developed with Glenn, from the first call that he made to my phone when it was only the two of us in this world. It was him on a penitentiary payphone, me on my phone talking to a guy that I clearly knew was in some deep, deep pain.
And uh, you know, the evolution of that as it expanded and we started to work harder and get more evidence slowly as It's sort of the gratitude that Glenn and I felt as more and more people got involved, including Phil.
Using the resources of Innocence Canada. We used many investigators. One in particular who isn't here today who died. His name is Steve Jones. Was an amazing investigator. I'm grateful to Steve. I'm grateful to Fred Fitzimmons, who was another investigator who was an x RCMP pomicide investigator who probably put one hundred people in jail for murder rightfully, but
believed in Glenn's innocence. You know, I'm grateful to everybody else that got involved, including celebrities like Michael B. Jordan supported Glenn's case and did a video and we're in the process now of writing him to thank But the point is that as the case evolved, our friendship evolved, and as more people got involved, both Glenn and I are thankful to everybody that helped bring it to this point.
Over to you, well, I'd just like to say to my two lawyers Sean McDonald and Philed Campbell. I'm so grateful for your help and for saving my life. Because you did, you literally saved my life. If you had to come along, I wouldn't have made it. I would have been dead by now. Just let you know, I had four heart attacks in prison and they only took me out for one and I got stints in my heart. Now I only got thirty five percent of my heart left because of what happened to me.
Well, we love you, Glenn, as simple as that.
Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flahm. Please support your local innocence projects and go to the link in our bio to see how you can help. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Cliburn and Kevin Wardis. The music on the show, as always, is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flahm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one