#179 Jason Flom with Rob Will

from a little over a hundred yards away. Michael Allen Rosario had shot and killed Deputy Hill, and Rosario also shot Rob Will's left hand and freed him from his cuffs. Rob and Rosario separately fled the scene. Rob boosted a car, only to be pulled over and arrested peacefully about an hour northwest of Houston. Meanwhile, Michael Alan Rosario fled to Rob's girlfriend's apartment, where he is said to have had blood on his clothes, thing and washed up in the sink.

At trial, the prosecution muddied the details about how much time Rosario had had to return to the scene and murder Deputy Hill. Which would have made Rob the only possible culprit at the scene. Despite the physical evidence of the contrary, Rob was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death. One of Rob's A Pellet attorney, Sammy Khalil, tells me now about the evidence that Dave uncovered, as well as the progress in Rob's fight for freedom. This

is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. That's me. I'm your host, and today we're going to discuss a case that has been a passion of mine for a long time, the case of Robert Gene Will will be joined by his highly esteemed A Pellet attorney, Sammy Khalil. But first, let me take you back to death Row in Texas, the Polunski unit, where I had a chance to speak with Robin person. Hey, Rob, thanks for sharing your story with us. So let's go

back to way before all of this happened. Tell us about you as a child, oh man, kind of a quiet type of child who like to relie. Then how was it growing up, I mean, how was your home life? Kind of grew up around I mean, you know, my dad was murdered I mean he'd been in out of prison before he's murdered. Yeah, he's really just not good. So just before all of this happened, what were you doing with your life? I was going into my seven year college for child psychology and I was taking care

of my son. That was one of my main folks. Just take care of my son and his half brother. One of the reasons I went to school college for child psychology because I was like, Okay, I grew up in evangelical as in southern Jackson household. You didn't talk about problems, you didn't talk about emotion, you didn't talk about issues. Now I remember, just never have anyone to talk to, Like even after my dad was murdered, I

didn't and talked to anyone at all about it. And getting older, you kind of realize how bad it is. And I wanted to get at the green child so I gotta said, Okay, I could help children who didn't have anyone to talk to him, right, And I always told myself, I'm gonna be there for my son. And how old was your son when this tragedy happened. Uh, he was less than a year old. Yeah, I was very active five though I mean, I took care of him, change his diapers, bayed them like managed our society should,

but I don't. I took care of his half brother was five or five. So you were you were going to school, being a good dad. But you were also involved with some not so great people. I mean, in fact, you were scared ring up some extra cash by stripping hubcaps in North Houston with the son of an Houston cop named Michael Allen Rosario on the morning that Harris County Deputy Barrett Hill was murdered. I was doing student stuff, hanging on idiot people, even on and commit this murder.

I'm responsible for war engaging activity day. I should have known could the bad things, and I'll be taken away from myself. Today we have with us Sammy Khalil. Sammy is a former assistant Federal Public Defender and he's also a member of the Federal Bar Association, the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, the Harris County Criminal Lawyers Association.

He's also a fellow of the Texas Bar Foundation, a board member of the Texas Defenders Service, and of course for quite some time now, you can have a part of the legal team including j Ewart and Karen Otto from Arnold and Porter and to local Houston at journeys Chad Flores and out of Donell and they're all working together to have the truth come out and free Rob Will. So Sammy, welcome to Wrongful Conviction. Thank you. Jason, and you and I have had the opportunity to spend some

time together. Of course we were on Dr Phil's show together talking about this very case, and of course it starts with Rob Will's unbelievably tragic childhood where he was abused terribly. His father was murdered when he was ten, right, that's right. He was in and out of trouble as a kid. This happened when he was twenty one. He was arrested in December two thousand and has been on death row essentially for the last two decades. What we

know happened Rob and Rocky Michael Allen Rosario's nickname. We're stripping down like the hub caps of a parked vehicle in an apartment complex in North Houston, six am, December four, son barely rising and a patrol vehicle arrives at the scene. Deputy Michael Kelly was in that patrol vehicle and also Deputy Buried Hill. When they arrive, Rob and Rosario run behind several units of the apartment complex. There's kind of like a grassy alleyway they are chase. Deputy Hill follows Rob,

Deputy Kelly follows Rosario. Now Rob takes a hard left through an opening between two apartment units. Rocky does the same thing, but at the next opening, and they both proceed in the same direction on either side of this apartment unit. They both crossed the street. About twenty seconds later, the dispatch takes show that Deputy Hill had Robbed in custody. He radios into the dispatch center saying, I have one

in custody. It's undisputed that that person in custody is Rob. Meanwhile, Rosario continues down a concrete, kind of overgrown driveway in this field that's on the other side of the street that they both crossed, and Deputy Kelly he admitted that he lost sight of Rosario at some point after Rosario entered the concrete driveway, and we believe after Rob was placed in custody by Deputy Hill, that Michael Allen Rosario reached the end of that overgone driveway, took a left

and proceeded back to the area where Rob was handcuffed and in custody and murdered. Deputy Hill freed Rob of the handcuffs and they both fled, and we know that Rob was shot in the process in his left hand. There's no question about that. Rob's third and fourth knuckle, maybe the fourth and fifth knuckle of his left hand, was essentially blown off. Immediately after the tragic, senseless murder of Deputy Hill, Rosario went to Rob's girlfriend's home, where

he washed his clothes. He'd later removed names and numbers from his address book. I mean, come on. He went on to confess to no less than five separate people, who later all every one of them signed a sworn affidavit. And it gets worse from there. When Rosario's family was asked to produce the clothes he had been wearing on the morning of the crime. The clothes have been washed, bleached, and neatly folded. These are not the actions we typically

would associate with someone who was innocent. So back to the morning of the murder, Rob boosted a car to get away. Now, obviously that's illegal, and he doesn't dispute that, but it doesn't make him a murderer. In fact, when he was pulled over about an hour northwest of Houston and Brenham, Texas, he was compliant and peaceful towards the arresting officers. The prosecutors have created THISUS narrative like, you know, we acted afterwards, right, but they don't even want to

talk about the actual physical evidence. In my case, I think that's very important. How did you act afterward? I ran away? I mean I saw someone get culled. Yeah, I'm running away. So you're pulled over and arrested. They treat your wounded left hand, They bag your hands and gloves to be tested for gunshot residue. What was going through your mind? I was pretty much a state of trauma, right. You know, it's very very deserving. I didn't give any

statement to police things. You know, they kept trying to get me to talk about what happened, and you know who was with me, and I just didn't give any statement. How long were you been jailed before trial? About a year and a month. I mean, Rob, you knew you hadn't killed that PV. Hill, But at the time, did you really think everything was gonna work itself out? You want to think that the system is righteous, the system is honorable with those people in positions of power are

going to do the right thing. I mean, I didn't under saying anything about the system as a whole. I wasn't familiar with criminal justice form a movement at the time. I didn't understand the problems. They didn't turn over some of the main physical evidence in my case. They waited a year and month until the day before trial and just take a look at the physical evidence. I mean, just like, some of the things are so so ridiculous. It's just obvious and self evidence. So let's talk about

the physical evidence available at trial. None of Deputy hills blood was found on Rob or his clothing, the same clothing from the scene that he was arrested in. When Rob was arrested, his wounded left hand was treated, and his gloves and hands were bagged to be tested for

gunshot residue. Now, as per Josh Dubin's junct Science episode about gunshot rescue, which I strongly recommend, one cannot conclude that the presence of antimony or barium were other elements associated with gunshot residue directly mean that a gun was fired or not. It just means that those elements are present, but the source really cannot be determined. It could be cigarette ash and certain mechanical equipment, even dried urine, as well as gunshots. Of course, those things and others can

all be a potential source of some of these elements. However, if none of those elements are found at all out of suspect's hands or gloves, it can be said with certainty that a gun had not been fired by that person's hand. It appears to be the state's theory, was the state's theory at the time of trial, that Rob had this firearm before the murder, somehow, after being handcuffed during the process of being handcuffed, shot himself handcuffed, injured himself,

and somehow miraculously freed himself of these handcuffs. The problem with that theory is that no gunshot residue was ever found on Rob's right hand at all. So without gunshot residue on the right hand glove or his right hand, the one he would have needed to shoot his own left hand, obviously, it can be said with certainty that he had not fired the gun at all. Deputy Hill had not even unholstered his gun let alone fired it, so someone else was at that crime scene firing a gun.

The ballistics evidence showed that Deputy Hill had been shot as close as eight inches away. Had Rob shot Deputy Hill from that range, Rob would have been covered in Deputy Hill's blood. This was not the case. Rob did not have a speck of Deputy hills blood on him, So obviously someone did shoot Deputy Hill. But all evidence points away from Rob and towards Rosario, who, by eyewitness accounts, had washed blood off of his clothing in Rob's girlfriend's sink.

So how in the world did the prosecution pin this on Rob? What else did they present? The dispatch records are critical. The state said that we're so eo based on its analysis of the dispatch records, only had about eight seconds to cover about three hundred feet a hundred yards, call it almost a football field. The state's position was that Rosario is not an Olympic athlete, that he can't cover that distance about three hundred feet in eight seconds.

But in fact, a careful review and analysis of the testimony and trial, matched with the dispatch records that were presented at trial, show that Rosario had at least anywhere from forty four seconds to a minute twenty six seconds in between to reach the scene of the crime. So

that was not articulated well at trial. And what's critical is that Deputy Kelly in the state suggested that Rosario went right went east at the end of that driveway, although de Eadie Kelly has since walked back those initial intimations and at trial admitted that he didn't know that

he lost sight of where Rosario actually went. But what was not presented at trial was this critical blood hound dog tracking evidence that traced the scent of Michael Allen Rosario shortly after the murder up this concrete driveway, and instead of to the right, which was the state's theory east, the bloodhound tracked hard west to the left, directly to

the crimes. That was not presented to the jury. Right, and so since these and so many more critical pieces of evidence, some of which were hidden by the prosecution, others simply not investigated by Rob's counsel at trial, since this evidence was not presented to the jury, and since Rosario couldn't possibly have made that distance in eight seconds, and we know that no hu and being could, then despite all other evidence making Rob's guilt impossible under this

false narrative, Rob was the only one the state was placing at the crime scene. And we know in a case like this, someone had to answer, someone had to pay for Deputy hills murder. And that point was really driven home by what is known as the wall of blue. Can you talk about that? Sure? Absolutely? The Harris County Sheriff's Office put out a bulletin for Harris County Sheriff's deputies to appear in uniform at Rob's trial, not to

offer evidence, but to appear as spectators. So imagine if you are such a juror sitting to pass judgment on a person whom the District Attorney's office believes killed a police officer. To have a wall of blue in the trial room, it sends an unmistakable message that we know who pulled the trigger. Had nothing to do with evidence, everything to do with creating an atmosphere of prejudice and

intimid dish. So there you are in the courtroom, still healing from being shot in the hand, a gunshot wound that the lack of gunshot residue proves conclusively that you could not have inflicted on yourself. The prosecution muddied the water around how much time Rosario had to get back to the crime scene and shoot Deputy Hill from behind, along with a mountain of exculpatory evidence that was either unknown, uninvestigated, or most importantly hidden at the time of trial, plus

the wall of blue. You were sentenced to death. Can you tell us about that moment? I mean it was pronouncement of death. Thinking back, it's just and you feel like you're you're out of time, out of space, and this isn't Brie. It's like this, this can't be happening. This, you know, this is not real. So you've been locked up since December four of two thousand and eventually you were sent to death row. What have you been doing all this time to occupy your time and keep your

mind insane? Oh? Man, I do a lot of reading, yoga, meditation, work on art, and I encourage our audience to check out some of Rob's work. We did a show in New York with some of his artwork to support his legal battle. Just follow the link in the episode description to check it out. Free rob Will dot org is the website Free rob Will dot org. Now, Rob, when you got here, your son was just barely two years old.

Have you at least gotten to see him? Oh? Well, I didn't have a lot of contact with him because some of my relatives didn't let me have a lot of direct contact with him. So I'd write him and hoping that it should get to him. Some of them did, but we didn't have a lot of contact until he got older. He came to see me after returned eighteen, and it's just like, wow, man, you know, he's like six foot man, what's up? You know? I wear a sizes Twilves, you right, you worst of thirteen. I stand

up and he's like right here. I'm like, oh wow, okay, wow. You know he's almost taught as me. And it's just he's a man, you know what I mean, He's he's a man. I kind of emotionally talking about this, so you know, you're just like I mean, first time I held my son, I was just in tears and not somebody like burst out in tears. I actually just became a grandfather, right, kind of emotional. What was the question, Well,

it was just if you get to see him. You know, I have kids myself, and the thought of not being able to be physically with them there have been times where, for some years when I first got to very very very hard, there's people I care about out there that I'm I know I could be positive influencing her life while I was out there and worrying about that can

be disturbing. Just say used to be disturbed, but really, I mean I went through a period where I did a lot of study in religion and psychology and psychoanalysis and yoga and mind body health. I mean, I'm like spend weeks and weeks and weeks doing these things, like you know, spend four or five months on one yoga post really internalizing the meaning and and one of the things that being mindful really teaches you was like, Okay, analyze events from respective of this is not happening to me,

is happening in a larger context. It's one reason why I always feel propelled to engage you so much chriminal justice for form activity, because okay, it's not about just me. It's like I feel compelled to speak out about that and to work on chriminal justice from you know what I mean. Yeah, you've gotten a paralegal degree while in here, and you've been leading and participating in non violent protests can you talk about that and how you began down

this path. Well, it came about from very in depth study, particularly the history of resistance to British imperialism in India, and there's a there's a book what is it? A hundred years of non violent struggle. It showed me what it is possible, and I thought, well, Okay, there are guys here are innocent. There are guys here who are under the law parties who the state will tell you

they've never killed anybody. But there's still there's so much bias against criminal defendants and prisoners, especially people on death row. I thought, well, let's do something different. The idea was to take the theories that were practiced in India and during the civil rights movement here and engage in non violent direct action protests to bring some of the issues that that criminal justice warm movement is pushing on the outside to the forefront right from the lens of this environment,

and also to better the conditions here. Okay, So for example, I mean the rector it right, and they come and they handcuff us and take us out, and myself and others say no, we're not coming out. They say why, I say, well, for now much reasons. One, you have interesting people here too, you have mentally you know people here you're trying to excute. Three, we're in highly oppressive conditions, and of course they say, well we got something for that, and they bring the swap team and they gass you

running there and brought you up. And and also, I mean to be fair to have members. Yeah they were violent prisoners here, but yeah, they react with violence to non violence. Yeah, I've seen those videos. Um, it's hard to believe that you actually live that. Oh yeah, they hit me with and now this gas is for rye control, it's for earty people. You're not even supposed to use this in the cell. They hit me with it, and

that's why, I mean I started convulsion, you know. Uh. Yeah, they went on for an hour of gassing almost diet actually. But hey, we're sitting there talking about it right now, right, yes we are. And I guess your perspective about death might be a little different from insight here. Do you think about it a lot? You know what? Yeah, I

made myself. I mean I made myself. You got to like memntal Moory, right, But he was an interesting thing in various religious schools and mystic schools they have sacred rights of like fake death right, like even with Freemason state, they have a symbolic death. Okay, it's momental moory, remember mortality, right, And I mean you could wallow and fear and just be let that break you. What I've seen due is go insane. Or you could say, all right, what does

that mean understanding death? And the conclusion I've come to is like live life, man, live life, you know what I mean? This is just beauty everywhere everywhere? Like, how is this to some cold chine John Cole, just listen to some John Coltrane, Man, John, how can you be sad listening to John Coulture a se a mystic sorcerer, you know what I mean? And again it's perspective. It's not of yoga meditation. Man. Well that sounds like a

good formula for survival anywhere, including on the outside. Do you allow yourself hope for being on the outside again one day? Man, I've been knocked up almost twenty years. I mean I have faith in right then would be done. Someone is gonna make this right. So Sammy, how long have you been representing Rob the federal judge here in Texas appointed me in January of to take over Rob's case.

Judge Ellison described a case containing what he called disturbing uncertainties, and at that time the federal judge expressed what he called his deeply felt concerns about the substantial evidence of actual innocence on the part of Rob will errors of grave proportion at the initial trial. So that's the situation I found myself walking into when this federal judge asked me to take over Rob's case. And look from the very beginning all the way through the appellate process, what

actually has happened. Can you tell us about the ridiculous state havebeas appeal, which is of course the round of appeal before you were appointed by Judge Ellison. Tell us what this appellate attorney did and how damaging it was. I Will, Rob was appointed a lawyer who essentially cut and pasted a brief that he had filed in a

different death penalty case into Rob's brief. So this lawyer should have done what any reasonably competent state habeas lawyer would do, go back out and reinvestigate the case, look at witnesses that should have been called evidence that wasn't produced carefully analyzed what's in the state's file. Do the analysis of the timeline that we have now done, look

at the forensic evidence, look at Michael Allen. Were Soria go through the police records his statements, you would have uncovered multiple lives were Sorryo made to the police, including denying that he'd ever been there, that he even knew raw, and that he had handled the gun just before the murder for Sorry. His behavior post murder was deeply suspicious and points to consciousness of guilty. For example, he did go back to this apartment the morning of the murder.

He told a witness by the name of Natasha Alien that as he was washing his clothes in the kitchen sink of the department, he made a statement that the blood just came off. The d a's office moved the trial court to block that's eatement from Natasha Alien from coming into evidence for the jury's consideration. That is the evidence that Judge Ellison, in the third round of appeals has now pointed to as evidence that should have been presented.

That's just one example of where Sario's suspicious behavior after the murder. These are all issues that should have been investigated that we have uncovered since. So let's just quickly recap some of those issues and evidence that we've already mentioned. No gunshot residue on the glove or hand that Rob would have needed to shoot himself in Deputy Hill, none of Deputy hills blood or DNA and Rob, which should have been the case since Deputy Hill was shot at

close range. The analysis of the dispatched transcripts and sworn testimony that shows that Rosario had plenty of time to return to the scene and murder Deputy Hill, the bloodhound tracking evidence that also supports Rob's version of events, a slew of witnesses who have signed affid David's claiming that Rosario admitted to the murder, as well as the statement from Natasha Hallien claiming that Rosario talked about how the blood just came out of the pants as he was

washing them in their kitchen sink. Then there's all of Rosario's lives to the police, which include denying having been there at all, denying even knowing Rob Will, and last but not least, denying having ever touched the gun, only to admit having handled the gun just before the murder. I mean this should be more than enough, but there's even more. We've uncovered a new witness, David Cruz, who says that Michael Allen Rosario confessed to the murder, but

that he was going to blame Rob Will. And we've uncovered the smoking guy. We've discovered police records that show that Michael Allen Rosario approached the Texas Syndicate Gang and David Cruz to have Rob Will, the only eyewitness to his crime, killed after the murder. There's nothing more suspicious than trying to have someone killed postcrime. The State of Texas knew about this document. The District Attorney's office knew about this document, but they inexplicably concealed it from Rob's

defense team. In fact, pre trial, days before the beginning of jury selection, Deputy Strickland, who authored this document, represented to the court under oath that he had no information relating to Rob Will's case. I mean, why would the authorities be seeming to protect an individual who, by all appearances, seems to have been the actual murder of a police officer.

Michael Allen. We're sorryo is someone who has been in trouble with the law since a very young age and seemingly he has been protected were Sorrio before the crime and also after he and Rob were arrested, appeared to believe that his dad was a shield from prosecution. He made statements to Tailor's in particular Deputy Patricia Scheffani, that he was essentially invincible. That too, is another police record or jail record that was never disclosed to Rob's defense team. Yeah,

this is not some fly by night person. This is an actual police official who is prepared to come forward with this very damning evidence. And what we have been fighting for is a new trial to present all of the evidence that we have uncovered over the last eight years. And I understand there's been some progress on that front. There has been some movement on that front. After a

long struggle. On August five, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit sent the case back to Judge Ellison so he could further explore this key exculpatory evidence that was withheld from Rob's trial lawyers. In fact, they quote him at length in certain parts of their opinion that there are disturbing uncertainties, a total absence of eyewitness testimony or strongly probative forensic evidence, and considerable evidence

supporting Will's innocence. And then the Fifth Circuit goes on to say that there were disturbing uncertainties of Will's culpability even before the introduction of the withheld evidence. Now, with the new evidence in hand, the uncertainties are even more disturbed.

In addition to all of that, the Fifth Circuit stated that Rob Will has now demonstrated that it is reasonably likely that after hearing the new evidence alongside the old evidence, every reasonable juror would have some level of reasonable doubt. I'm absolutely innocent. This isn't some ridiculous game or anything.

And I want people to really really realize this, and I take the time to look at the evidence, because yeah, it's about me, but it's about my family and and it's it's about the criminal justice system as a whole. You know. They're law professors who are like academic commentators who say, well, yeah, we probably executed four or five MC people in Texas. It's not okay. It's not okay. It is not okay. It is not okay at all. Well, Rob,

you're definitely appreciated to the choir here. I can't even count the number of times i've said this while arguing against people who believe in the death penalty. I mean, how many innocent people is it okay to execute? Like, do you know any other innocent guys that are in there with you right now? Well, I'll tell you this. When I first got here, I thought I was only one, right, But then it's like, oh, wow, another guys tolerated. Wow,

all another exoneration. It's just just like it's just ridiculous, you know what I mean. I think maybe one of the things is like I read so much and I studied so much. I think I always kind of being like that. But it's a compulsion to understand society and understand the system and understand more of the intricacies of life. And also I feel feel deproportionate to really let people understand the system man, and understand how it truly works.

And one of the reasons why it fights so hard is because I have a vision of doing the type of works Anthony Graves has done. She's She's been released. Anthony Graves was really good, dude. He was desonerated here five six years ago, and he he is like a shining example of what the foreign incarcerated, especially those who

are exonerated should be well. Rob, even if you're not out yet, you have already showing yourself to be that shining example through your artwork, through your spirit, through what you've been able to accomplish from behind bars, not only in the realm of criminal justice and prison reform, but also in just the man that you have become against all odds. So thank you so much for talking to

me today. Thank you. We're not here for any reason other than to try to have the truth come out, not just for Rob and for his family, but also for the family of the murdered officer and and for his memory. It was a senseless crime that never should have happened, but Rob didn't do it, and he shouldn't

be in prison for it. We're gonna need all the support we can get from anyone and everyone who could lend their voice to this issue, So if you haven't done so already, please check out the Rolling Stone article about this case and go to free Rob Will dot org to learn more. You can also sign a petition for a new trial for Rob at change dot org. All of these action steps will be blinked in the episode bio, so just scroll down learn more and get

involved and Sammy. We have a feature of this show that has come to be my favorite part of the show, and I think a lot of the audience shares my feelings on it. It's a segment we call closing Arguments, and basically it's just where I get to once again thank you for being here, and then turn my microphone off and just kick back, close my eyes and listen to you with any closing thoughts that you want to share. Well, Jason,

thank you again. Thank you for your commitment to criminal justice reform, your interest in the death penalty and reforming and hopefully one day abolishing the death penalty. And thank you in particular for your interest in Rob's case. Dr Phil He deserves a lot of credit. These are not easy cases. We have a slang police officer and people don't want to be associated with that. But what we

need is for the truth to come out. All we're asking, if you're gonna seek the death penalty against someone, let's make it a fair fight. Don't hide evidence, don't conceal evidence. Live up to your obligations you have to under the Constitution. Under the Supreme Courts nineteen sixty three case Brady versus Maryland turnover disclose to the defense favorable evidence. Why if you don't innocent, people like wrong end up on death growth. So we need another trial where the jury here's the

whole story, not just half of the story. We need another trial where the d a's office lives up to its constitutional and ethical obligations to turn over favorable evidence before the trial, not thirteen fourteen years afterwards, when the appellate process is so restrictive in terms of what judge can do. We need to get a new trial that's fair. That's just where the d a's office placed by the rules,

where they don't hide or concealed. Thank you, Rob. I think that people need to understand that I truly am innocent in my case. Yes, it's about me and my family, but it's also about the criminal justice system as a whole. And everybody needs to to realize the truth of the evidence in my case. And I also understand that it should be uh microscope which to examine the intricacies of the criminal justice system. And I hope people will feel

compelled to get involved in criminal justice reform. Oh everybody, go, go, go on the internet and google John Coltrane interview, Go listen to a love Supreme, listen to some John Cole trained man and you're gonna be happy. Huh. Don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you get your podcasts, it really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future

wrongful convictions before they happen. Go to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Awardis. The music on the show is by three time OSCAR nomine composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one