#150 Jason Flom with Randal Padgett

Cathy's body had been discovered in her bed. She had endured a violent struggle and had sustained forty six stab wounds, which ultimately killed her, and to make matters worse, seamen was found inside of her. Even though there was no indication that she had been raped. The night before this Florida trip, that Paget children had stayed with Randall in his tiny trailer, they knew, and he hadn't left in the middle of the night to do anything, much less

kill their mother. But with no signs of a break in at her home, Randall became the suspect, and he was arrested when the seamen turned out to be his. The state would commit misconduct during the trial, involving blood founded the crime scene that didn't match Cathy or Randall. This misconduct was one of the factors that led ultimately

to Randall being sentenced to death. The prosecutor misconduct would result in a retrial and if the ben's investigation would uncover some of the craziest perversities, proving that Paget had been innocent all along, and rescuing Randall from death row. This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam. That's me. I'm your host,

and today I'm actually have kind of or flies. I gotta be honest because today you're going to hear a story that I've been wanting to tell for as long as I've known about it. And when you hear it, you'll understand why. Because this is one of the craziest stories I believe in the history of American jurisprudence. And to help tell the story, we have an attorney was a personally hero of mine. Richard S. Jaffie is with us.

So Richard, welcome to hangorful conviction. I'm so happy to be here, Jason, and today we're going to be telling the incredible saga of Randall. Paget Randall, as I always say, I'm sorry you have to be here, but I'm happy you're here. I'm real happy to be here. I've been in a lot worse places. Well said, um, Randall, Let's start with you, because you grew up in a small town in Alabama, a town called Arab. I've never heard of Arab, but can you just give us an idea

of what your life was like before everything went so crazy? Okay, the town is pronounced right. Yeah. I grew up in the fifties lit a matter of fact, I was born in nineteen small town population probably about seven thousand now. Grew up on the farm. This simple laugh. I had good parents who worked hard. They carried me to the church, and uh, well, I went to college. I got a degree in business and started to work with this plant.

And I always loved outside, and so I ended up buying a party farm, got married, had two children, and had a pretty good life. Thirty two acres of land and the house had the land paid for, the house almost paid for, and uh I made probably the biggest mistake in my life. I had extramarital affair. And you're referring to Judy Smith. Now you used to work together when all that started. Was it when you already had the poultry farm? No, it was was eating corporation another

plant and uh we live close together. When one idea and work. She had a swimming book. Something was said about going skinny dipping. So I remember when Nott We've been working late and almost at home, and I've seen her car in front of mean, she pulled up in your driveway, So I kept thinking about that any dipping jokes, So I put my head lights in behind her, trying to scare. I figured you knew it was me, and then I went on home. Didn't think anything else about it. Well,

the next day it worked, did you said? Well, the chicken out last night. So the next night, same thing. I got almost to her place, which was just before I got to my place. Our car is against pulled in. I pulled in, Okay, let's go skinny. Didn't well, she starts stripping off clothes. I thought it's all a big joke. So we got totally naked, and I wanted to do

the deed, and I said, no, I'm going home. Well, I did a long weekend and all weekend the devil got my brain and saying, you should just do it once, you should just do it once. And then did it once, and then it just more and more and more, and I was I was miserable. I guess it was mainly six and uh my wife and I Kathy, her name was Kathy. Uh. We had separated and she got murdered, stay up numerous times and right doctor she was dead.

They said, my children, I learned later, who were six and eleven at the time, But you were the one that found the body of their mother. And I'm thinking about all that stuff. And I got physically ill when I first found out about it. But it was like a nightmare, especially when the police were kind of pointing their finger at me. I couldn't even mourn the death of my wife with all that hanging over me. And

I felt a lot of guilt. If I would have been home with my wife where I should have been, she would probably be aligned and well, the the police accused me of doing it, which I can understand why. I've seen all the TV movies about the affairs and all of that stuff. But d n A was Brandy

back then. It was nineteen ninety when she was killed, and I was just learning about doing Most people didn't know about that stuff then, so I we literally gave my blood sample and uh, I thought, Man, I can't wait till this the unitis gets back, so they will start looking at the right place, because I wanted every who killed my wife to be found. I read about

your case in Richard's amazing book. It's called Quest for Justice Defending the Damned by Richard S. Jaffee and now there's a second edition out and this case is extraordinary in so many ways. But I I can understand why the jury voted to convict you because even though there was significant evidence that it couldn't have been you, but this one thing was really almost impossible for your attorneys to overcome. And Richard, you talk about this in your book.

So this murder happened on August seventeenth of Randall and his paramore, Judy Smith, went to Florida on a scuba diving trip. It's about six or seven hours from arab While in Florida on the evening of August sixte early mornings of August, Randall's asleep. They just got there and a phone call comes from Randall's brother saying that his wife, Cathy was murdered. Randall immediately went and threw up, and then Judy and Randall immediately turned around and drove back,

and they drove right to the Sheriff's department. The interesting thing is that you would think that Randall was so shook up, so distraught, that Judy would have driven the whole way back, But apparently Judy was up all night and couldn't keep the car in the road on these windy rural roads in Florida, and after about thirty or forty minutes, they were about colliding with everything, and Randall had to drive the entire way back and Judy went

to sleep in the passenger side. They go straight to the station and both give interviews separately, and then the next morning Randall invited them out to his home, the home of the murder, and they He was video taped for forty five minutes, going through the entire house and basically excluding himself from not being a suspect because every time he was offered an opportunity to I guess put himself out of harm's way. He didn't, for example, or the scuff marks in the door, are are they fresh?

Meaning maybe the house with barger eyes? Randall said no, they were oh old. When was the last time you had sex with your wife, Kathy? Randall said, oh, it's been many months, three or four months, which if he were guilty, he would have probably said within the last few days, explaining what turned out to be a DNA match, and on and on and on, and then Randall gave a polygraph test, and he voluntarily gave his blood for DNA testing, and then he thought, as soon as it

comes back, he'll be excluded as a suspect. But it didn't happen that way, So the circumstantial evidence starts to mount. Right, it looked a little strange that Randall and Duty had left town the morning after the murders, and of course, with the affair and at being a small town and everything else, people are going to think whatever they think.

But at the same time they put out these crazy theories, like the idea that Randal might have been after the life insurance when we know that she only had ten thousand dollars in life insurance anyway, which would barely cover the cost of the funeral, and it never made any

sense on the face of it. Why would Randal want to make his children, who nobody had anything to say other than that he loved and they loved him, And why would he want to make them effectively orphans or in a minimum take even if you got away with it, take their mother from them. Can you talk a little bit about that, the circumstances, and then you know where ultimately it when when the DNA test came back, Well, you know, the first suspect, of course is the spouse.

But at the same time, when authorities focus on one person, they get myopic and the tunnel vision and they never look at anything else. And the investigation then is all about finding information to confirm their suspicion or their bias or their focus. In this case, though nothing made sinse as you point out initially, clearly, Kathy was in a fight for her life. She was in the bed, she was accosted by her killer, and there was a life

and death struggle. Kathy was stabbed forty six times. Almost all of those were defensive wounds, and it took a long time for finally a couple of stab wounds to penetrate her organs and kill her. Randall this six ft one pounds Kathy was very demure, very small. In addition to that, the alleged rape was clearly staged. The body was moved from a normal sleeping position to across the bed. The left leg was propped down, the right leg was propped up on a table where an alarm clock was

No one could be raped in that position. All the blood was consistent to the body being moved. The underwear was neatly cut off with scissors of Kathy. There was zero trauma to her vaginal area, zero none, zero. And what the pathologists testified to in both trials was that Cathy was dead before the seman ever entered her vagina, meaning that if someone had raped her, that person would

have raped a corpse. So you had an extraordinary amount of information that clearly, oh that someone else committed this crime other than Randall Paget, And there's a lot more to that. You know, the idea that she was allegedly raped in that position with one leg up on the nightstand, but that the alarm clock was undisturbed didn't make any sense.

Very little of this made any sense. But the detectives ignored the statements of Randall's children who had been in the trailer with him all night, including one the little one that slept in the bed with him, and they had told the detective that he had never left the trailer that night and that they would have heard it if he had, that he hadn't showered. He had no blood on him, of course, which we know it was

a bloody struggle. They didn't search his residence or his car, nor did they search Judy's residence or car, and an investigator clumsily, supposedly accidentally, let's let's call it, that destroyed a bloody fingerprint on Cathy's body. So six weeks go by October five, Randall, they come in and rescue it, and then you were charged with capital murder. I was at my in laws home, Ketty's parents, when over there me, me and the kids. I guess the police were following

me or what. I don't know how they knew I was there. It was in a town about thirty miles away from where I live. Anyways, there was a knock on the door, and uh mother and law said there was someone to see me, and I went outside and the protectives as you're under rest for the murder of Kenthy. I said, uh, you rest in the Rome person. They put the handcuffs on me and said, let me go back in tell my children by no, you can't do that. And man, my mind was spinning. I didn't know what

was happening. And I was gravely concerned about my kids. They don't have a mother now there don't have a father, and what's going to happen to them? But I was in Uh. I was only in jail, I think about three days. I didn't need a thing I could need but any house. I got bonded out after about three days. So that part of my incarceration was kind of quick. But the other part when I got the prison was it was kind of long. That's a whole different story

death row. We'll get to that. But Richard, in your book you talk about the first trial, and unlike most of the people that we've interviewed on the show, Randall had not just competent but highly skilled attorneys on the first trial. But they were up against it because the state, um, well they broke the rules. To put it mildly, they withheld evidence that I think would be deemed to be exculpatory until the very last minute, and there was other

stuff going on. So can you walk us through the first trial and explain to us how it ended up the way it did. Randall did have good lawyers, and they retained a expert in d NA, and when the expert was cross examined, the expert had to concede that the DNA testing of the salmon was consistent with the DNA of Randall, meaning that the expert basically confirmed the state's case. So once Randall testified, the jury was pretty

uninterested because they made up their mind. And there's more to this than that as well, because what I was making reference to before is the fact that there was blood at the scene, which is typical in a case where someone has stabbed numerous times because the stabber in this case, the murderer would normally cut themselves because the knife gets slippery and done the demonstration so many times, we just take a pen and you stab a book or a table or whatever, and by the third time

down your hands already down on what would be the blade. So that's why we almost always find blood from the person doing the stabbing at the crime scene, and in this case that was also the case. Plus it was a violent struggle, and we know that Kathy fought for her life and she scratched the assailants numerous times. So there was blood found at the crime scene that was not Kathy's and it was not Randall's. You're in the

first trial. There was one point in time when the zoologist was on the stand just find that my blood pop had changed from one day to the next, and he had never seen that happened. And here was twenty five years of work. I thought, well, I'm not going to get found you. I'm going to go home today. So the prologist is up on the stand saying Randall's blood type changed, which we know isn't a thing. It can't,

I mean. So, so the conclusion is that it was blood from the scene that they were testing that did not belong to Randall and was also not Kathy's, so mixed in with Cathy's blood, someone else's blood was at the crime scene. But the prosecution did not hand over that evidence until after the DNA experts who had come to town to test if I had already left. And then Randall's lawyer appropriately asked for a mistrial, and the

judge seemingly inappropriately denied the motion. So this is where things start to really stack up and where you know, you can start to understand or I can how the jury would have found Randall guilty because it was hard for them to get past the idea of how could his sperm have ended up inside of her when he said he hadn't seen her in such a such amount of time and that is a you know, that's a pretty big albatross. But this other evidence was either ignored

with hell, there were searches that were not done. There was all sorts of leads left unexplored. The huge pink elephant in the room was Randall's ex paramour, Judy Smith. Neither side was willing to call her to testify in the first trial. The state would have given her immunity if she would have implicated Randall, but she wouldn't do it.

So Judy never testified in the first trial, and the video that we talked about earlier of Randall going through the crime scene with the detectives was not played either. The interesting twist in this case is that the jury found them guilty and recommended a life without parole sentence. In that time Alabama had an override statute and the trial judge over wrote it and sentenced Randall to death. So Randall, that's may can you tell it gets through

that awful, awful moment? Well, that would my twenty second that was my birthday a matter of fact, the sentence and that weathered me a lot. But I could anybody I think that I would do such a thing, and then they're gonna kill the wrong person. Somebody's out there and have really done this and it's not me, And uh, the whole world is going to believe what the court says. The court says I'm guilty and and that I must

be put to death. As a father myself, the idea of you being torn away from your kids, who you now have even a more intense responsibility to care for and protect after everything they've been through and now they're effectively being orphaned, and you're thrust into the most horrible situation imaginable and being torn away from the people you love the most at the same time. You know, then what's horrible and helpless slug Okay, help myself. Nothing that I can do. It is going on help my children.

This episode is sponsored by A I. G. A leading global insurance company, and Paul Weiss Rifkin, Morton and Garrison, a leading international law firm. The A I G pro Bono Program provides free legal services and other support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals most in need, and recently they announced that working to reform the criminal justice system

will become a key pillar of the program's mission. Paul Weiss has long had an unwavering commitment to providing impactful pro bono legal assistance to the most vulnerable members of our society and in support of the public interest, including extensive work in the criminal justice area. When I got the prison, it was it was I don't know, about ten o'clock at night and never been in a prison. Go in and it's all loud. People locked up there.

They're screaming, and you hear the metal doors slamming shut and open, and that drap how you close off and they spread you down with some kind of chemical handcuffs and shackles on your legs and a chain going from your hands to your feet and then chain around your

waist and all that lot. Say, little middy, stay ups back to where the death row was, and UH guard would hollered somebody would slide a metal door open and it slide behind me and the other inmates yelling at you and all this stuff and screaming, and get back to my little sail, which is uh I think was five feet by eight or nine ft and there's no lot in there are a lot more shot and it

was completely dark. And get in there. They take the cuffs off, I mean slammed the door behind me, and I'm and I'm all alone, like on a different planet. And I can remember keept thinking I'm gonna get out of here. I'm gonna get out of here. I'm gonna get out of here. But after that, years went by. I remember carried up one night in the feet of position and just won't give up. And I'm gonna die die in this place, and nobody don't the whole world don't care about world will be glad when I do.

But finally I got closer to God than I've ever been in my life. I was confident that God wouldn't wanna let me die for something I didn't do. And uh, you didn't. You get me out of there through Richard jeffish Um. Wow, Richard, the tables turned when you got

involved but how did you come to be involved? And I'm so fascinated by the process and the way you describe it in the book, the decisions that you had to make, which are actually literally life and death decisions because you are the backstop right had you failed, Randall would have been put to death. So can you pick

us through that whole process. The way that I met Brenda mass and Gil who later and currently became Randall's wife, they hardly knew each other, but I was speaking at the sixteenth Street Baptist Church in That's where the four young girls were murdered in the bombing of the church, and we were speaking on the death penalty. It was a kind of a small rally. Brenda approached me after I spoke and asked me if I had heard of

Randall's case. I hadn't, and I refused to intervene at that point because he was well represented and I didn't expect ever to hear from anyone again about that. And then a few years later in Randall's family called the office through Brenda and wanted to meet with me. That Randall's case had been reversed because the prosecution had failed to disclose the blood typing evidence that was, as you say, exculpatory, and because of that, Randall was given a new trial.

So when I got involved, I began to learn immediately all kinds of things about Judy, about her history, about how she was totally obsessed with Randall, to the point where she actually constructed in her home a duplication of Randall's children's bedroom. And Judy had actually confronted Kathy prior to the murder in a church parking lot. Judy had a raincoat on and sunglasses on a Wednesday night Kathy with the church. Every Wednesday night, Judy was hiding in

Kathy's back seat. There was a confrontation. A church deacon broke it up. When Kathy told me about that Judy came up with you know, I just wanted to talk to her, and and I wasn't dressed Jeffie thing more than my normal dress. And so I don't know. I guess I'll let the devil taught me in the kind of believing that Judy wasn't uh anything that was no good and instead of believing can't be like I should have. And I can't explain. It was just a crazy time

in my life. The problem that Judy was having with patience because Randall separated from Kathy several times, but each time came back to her. On this occasion, when the brutal murder happened, it became clear to me that Judy wasn't going to take the chance of the divorce not going through. So apparently she took matters in her own hands.

And then now we have a glory, horrific, unimaginable crime scene that ultimately led to Randall's arrest, conviction, and death symbols Randall, were there any other moments besides the church parking lot incident that kind of made you think to yourself, you know, Judy might just be a little bit off.

Thinking back through all this stuff, I remember one time when this was before getting killed, when I was at Judy's place and I was always him blocked bag that had some I'm a smoker, had some cigarette butts in it, and some fingernail clippings like what is this? And it's oh, I love you so much. I only to say these, you know, and I said, well, what a thing to say, is what I'm thinking. But thinking back, you know, she might have been up some mischief with that, so I

don't know, and then you know, then things get weirder. Right, you're investigator forgetting his name. Now, who was the investigator in this case. Our investigator was Rick Blake, and he

was our in house investigator, and he was amazing. What was really fascinating is is that after the murder, Judy took two weeks off from work, two weeks off, and we developed evidence that Judy had scratch marks all up and down her arms, meaning that she was apparently in some type of vicious life for death struggle, and so she stayed at home until those scratches healed. Another thing is is that Judy's blood was never tested, her DNA was never tested, her home was never searched, her car

was never searched. The police, for whatever reason, completely ignored her as I suspect. Listen, if somebody had done this work that you did all those years later, initially, it's entirely possible, maybe even likely, that the trial, the first trial,

would have ended up in an acquittal. Because there's more. Right, there's also a truck driver who came forward who said that he had seen a car matching the description of Judy's car, which was a very distinct car writing a hubcap with a certain color leaving Cathy's home in the middle of the night. That's pretty powerful. It's hard to

come up with a good excuse for that. But then comes the craziest part of all of this, right, and again, your investigator had you know, and I reread the chapter in your book this morning talking about how he had gone to beauty parlors trying to find people who knew Judy, thinking that in the town, a small town with only a few beauty parlors, she might have frequented one of them. And sure enough he found people that knew her. And what he discovered from that point turns out to be

really important evidence and really bizarre. He found three different people that told him clearly that Judy had this fetish with saving her then ex husband, Tommy Smith salmon and putting it in milkshakes. I can remember before Kathy was killed, usually after six we would both I'm talking about two D would go up to sleep. I don't know weeks before Kathy was killed, after six two D she would

immediately get up, go to bathroom. So then well, I'm sitting then there in president I'm thinking what was she doing in the bathroom. Was she saving some stuff? I don't know, but I don't know. Rick Blake, our investigator, he found three different people. We tried to get all free to court, but we could only get one, the

milkshake lady. She was one of the three that Judy had discuss this with on many occasions, and we hauled her to testify and it was dynamic and powerful, and the prosecution did everything they could to keep it out. I mean, I've told this story to unfair number of people and it doesn't get crazier than that. And that wasn't all though, Richard the trial itself, the biggest decision that I've ever had to make in any trial was

whether to call Judy to testify. That was crucial because again the prosecution kept holding out immunity if she testified against Randall. We were back in the judge's chamber as time would run out. The judge looked up and said, all right, call your next witness, and I said, we're going to call Judy Smith. And at that point the prosecutors jaws rock to the floor. It was stunned silence, because no one believed we had the I guess they

guts to call her and we did. And her testimony was the most both powerful and bizarre testimony anyone could envision. On the one hand, she testified that she prayed every night. She loved Randall so much that every night she prayed that something would happen to Kathy and that she would get killed in a car wreck so she could be

with Randall, and she still loved him. When I asked her about her ability to enter the home, it slipped from her mouth almost that there was a and I knew she meant key that was hidden in a particular place for Randall's children to get when they returned home from school. Well, she knew about it where it was hidden, and that slipped out of her mouth almost. She tried to take it back, but she couldn't, And jurors remembered

that during deliberations. But the most powerful thing was and again you point out something very very, so so crucial. And as every question ask of a witness in a death penalty case, especially a witness like her, judy could be the bomb that destroy you. It could be the landline that blows the case up. So every question had to be so measured. But I asked her, if that is Randall's d n A in Cathy's vaginal canal. How

do you think it got there? It's it's an objectionable question, but the prosecution didn't object because clearly they thought that she would either say I have no idea, but her answer was if that was Randall's d n A, that they had to have come from me, and that standing room only courtroom and you could hear a pin drop.

So the jury now has heard her try to walk back her explanation of how she could have gotten into the house, because, of course, one of the things that the prosecution theory hinged on it was the idea that there was no break in. There was no signs of breaking and entering, so it must have been somebody logically who knew Kathy and was admitted into the house. But now that the key in the location the key was known to Judy and that was out in the open,

that was one thing. And now of course her making this unbelievable admission in open court is a huge moment. But even still, the jury uh goes to deliberate, Randall, what did you think they were gone for close to three full days? Did you allow yourself to hope that they would come back with a not girlthy verdict? Or

were you what what? What were you thinking? Well, I don't think as a clip any here in those three days going back and forth to the jail which was just across street in the courthouse, but you know, I had a hope and Richard. So the jury is out two and a half days and the judge is basically at his wits end, I would say, and is on the verge of declaring a mistrial, which would have been devastating. Did you talk about this in the book as well? How the judge called you and the prosecution team into

his chambers I guess right for a conference. He did, and he was very clear. He said, gentlemen, I'm going to declare a mis trial. I don't believe in forcing drawars to give up their their feelings and beliefs. And I tried to talk him out of it, and he went, no, I've made up my mind. And this is a judge that when he makes up his mind, he does. As we filed out into the courtroom, I was the last one other than he was behind me. As we began

to enter the courtroom, I turned around. I looked at him right in the eyes, and I went judge just asked the jurors if they think they can come to a verdict. He didn't say anything. We sat down, he faced the jury. He said, ladies and gentlemen, I have no choice but two. And then he paused just for a second, and he turned to his left and looked me right in the eye, and we locked. And then he turned back around to the jury and he did

a one eight. He said, is there anyone on the jury that leaves that you could come to a unanimous verdict? And two or three people nodded their heads and said yes. I was stunned or a reversal. The jury went back to deliberate. Their courthouse continued to be totally packed, standing romotely, and people were basically in prayer. And for five minutes later they came out and it was not guilty. Now I'm not gonna lie. I cried this morning when I read the book and I knew the story, I'd read

it before. Um, Randy, what was that moment like when you were vindicated and you were on the verge of being returned to your family, to your community, your good name was given back to you. I can't imagine. Can please explain. Well, I don't know if I can, but like I had been held under water to the point of grounding, I had to come up brier and I'm at the point where I'm either going to drowned or not. And then the not guilty burd that just pulls me

up into air. I can breathe again, and I'm going to live. It was just total jubilation. And you hadn't really slept her eating in a few days, as you said, so it must have the judge, remember judge saying, and you're free to go. Mr Pagett and jailor came over to take me back to the jail with cuts only get my stuff and I going back to the jail. You could keep my stuff, you know. And then my son, who had grown and got his driver's license, got to

drive his daddy home. It was just wonderful, wonderful, Richard, What about you? It was? It was a feeling of elation that it's really hard to imagine unless you have heard not guilty. He's on death penalty cases before. This being a retrial made it all that much more unimaginable. You have the best job in the world, at least on days like that you do. Now before we go to the closing of the show, talk about the juror who approached you on your way out of the courtroom, Richard.

Probably the credit for the jury's correct not guilty verdict, a lot of it goes to her at the end of the day. That's exactly right what happens in these trials. Having tried hundreds myself, you often misread drawers. We thought that the older lady and a younger lady the one you're talking of, probably in her forties, we thought that they hated us, But it was the opposite. The initial vote was eight to four for guilty, we later learned.

And when we walked out of the courtroom towards our car, the one you allude to, the female, the forty year old forty something ere locked up to me and said, Mr. Jaffee, can have a word with you? And I said, sure, she said, and she just looked at me right in me. I was like a foot from her, and she said, you know, only a woman would know you can't have

sex in that position. So I climbed on the table and put my right leg up and my left leg down, and I made it clear to the mostly male jury that Randall Paget could not have had sex with cat thing in that position, and that flipped other girawars and ultimately all twelve found Randall not guilty. The last thing she said to me was you tell Randall Pageant to stay away from Judy Smith and go spend time with

his kids. And then we walked away. And the truth is that Randall hadn't seen Judy since the night at the police station when they arrived back from Florida, and he, of course has it since. Do you know what became of Judy Smith after all these years? Uh? I don't, Richard. Is it strange to you that they never prosecuted her. It's not strange because the prosecution had already publicly made it clear that they didn't think she was involved at all and knew nothing. So the chances of them getting

a conviction while it existed weren't really high. And I think the prosecution was just done with that case. They had pretty much been embarrassed enough, I guess. And Randall before I keep saying this, but one last question before we get to the wrap up, how are your kids doing? These poor children had to live through a nightmare that is unimaginable, you know, losing their mom and then almost losing their dad or losing their dad for six years.

How are they doing now, Well, they're they're doing good. And uh I've got three oh granddaughters now from them. My son has two red headed girls. He lives in Nashville and he's an architect. My daughter lives in Alabama and one time was president of the company she worked for. She since moved to a different place of than woman, but and she has one little girl. I'm so proud of them and I love them. The thesis, well, that's great, and I wish them all the blessings in the world

because they deserve. As to you, everything good. Um So, now we come to the wrap up of our show, which is a segment that is my favorite part called Closing Arguments, where I first of all, thank both of you Richard Jeffie, criminal defense lawyer, author and amazing advocate, Thank you for being here. And of course Randall, thank you Randall Paget for sharing your story so eloquently and beautifully.

And this part of the show is where I get to kick back in my chair, switch off my microphone and let you just share any other thoughts that you may want to share with our audience. Randall, We're gonna save you for last, if that's okay, Richard, your first has been a true privilege, honor, and joy to get to know and represent Randall Paget and become close with he and his now wife, Brenda Massengale of fifteen years.

This is a kind of case where reality really trump's fiction because had it not been for the failure to disclose the exculpatory conflicting information of blood typing, Randall would never have got a chance for a new trial. And it amazes me that the prosecution hid that until it was too late. The only other thing I would say would be that law enforcement often excludes a wider investigation once they focus on one suspect, and when that happens,

the wrong person can easily been convicted. And a really thorough investigation would have revealed the truth that Randall was innocent. And I thank God that Randall is here with us to share his story. He is a true thought of the earth human being Randall. I would just like to say, I think Mr Richard jeff is the greatest attorney in the world. He believed in me, He believed the truth. I want to thank Richard. I will love you Richard very much. One thing about me, I guess I was

naive about the justice system in America. I had heard of people getting wrongfully convicted, and I didn't pay much attention to it. But but I thought, you know, when if you go to trial in the United States, the foremost thing in the court's mind is supposed to be the truth. But I don't think it works that way. I think if the piece of truth comes up, that's bad part which ever side, I think it gets twisted

around or tried to cover it or something. And I guess for people listening to this, if you're ever sitting on a jury, I would ask that you don't just believe because a defendant has been accused of something, that that he probably did something or he wouldn't be there. And I would ask that you would make the prosecution show you some concrete proof to back up what they're saying. And if I got just one other minute, I'd like

to talk about my friend and now life Brenda. When I was in Brison, she was so nice to me. She was trying to raise money for me and written legal eight places. I think she wrote the governor, and I don't know who I would. I thought, why is this woman being so nice to me? And I thought she's a spy for the prosecution, because I was pretty sure I was going to get a retrial because prosecution had with failed that exculpatory evidence. And I thought, yeah,

they know it's going to be a retrial. And she's a spy. And she kept wanting to come and visit me, and I wouldn't let her. I thought, if I don't let her come down here, she can't say said something. But if I do let her come, she can go back and say Randall said this. Randall said that I wouldn't let her come. And a couple of years all my letters dwindled away except hers, and so finally, through her letters, got to trust and she did not be a spot but a great hey. And after I got out,

we've married about a bad years later. But he's the most wonderful person. Don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you get your podcasts, it really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project, and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause. And helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and

Kevin Wardis. The music on the show is by three time OSCAR nomine composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at rang Full Conviction and on Facebook at rang Full Conviction podcast. Rang Full Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one