It was a new year, and Stephan Carrington was a young man with a short criminal history who had just gotten out of prison. He had recently gotten married. The young father was training to be an e. M. T. After having paid his debtist Society. His life was getting back on traffic. On the morning of January two, Stephen's brother Mark stood outside of a lumber yard in Brooklyn
as Shannon France and another man arrived. Mr France pulled the twenty five, announcing a stick up as the other man rob's customer, Hugh Keys, the store clerk, tries to grab Mr France's weapon and was shot. Mr France loots the strong box and the two men fled, leaving Mr Keys alive. A confidential informant would tell the lead investigator, Detective Calabri's, the names of three men who were seen by the lumber yard at the time of the crime,
Shannon France, Eddie West, and Mark Carrington. However, when he searched for Mark Carrington, Stephen popped up at the same address and with his criminal record, Calabrizi added his photo into an array. Hugh Keys gave a shaky identification and the absence of any physical evidence whatsoever connecting to the crime. Stephen went to trial right next to the trigger man, Shannon France. The Carrington's hired a lawyer to protect both of their sons, but it turned out to be to
the detriment of one of them. Mark was never called to testify a trial, and twenty years later, finally free, Stephen Carrington is out on parole, but still fighting to clear his name of a crime that he simply didn't commit. This is Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. Welcome back to
Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. That's me, I'm your host, and today we have a story an outcome that we're going to hope that who knows, maybe somebody out there can be helpful with, because we are fighting to prove the innocence of the man who's sitting right in front of me now, Stephen Carrington. Stephen, as I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but I'm happy you're here. Well, thank you, but I'm happy that I'm here and having an opportunity to set the record straight and probably clear
my name. Yeah, that's what we're here for. But let's go back to that original fateful day January. Um, what happened that day in the lumber store. Um, basically, all my knowledge of this saga story that took place I learned through reading trial minutes, from hearing from people in the street and things of that nature, because you know, I wasn't there when it took place on that day.
They said that two individuals into the lumber yard at apparent robbery which resulted to homicide, wanted the employee at the lumber yard try to take a weapon for this individual, and subsequently this guy shot him twice and ultimately, um, he died, eventually died. Uh. The two individuals fled the scene. My brother was the lookout and subsequently Um the person that is my co defend and Shannon, his girlfriend best friend is the one that gave his name, photos and
everything to the police. There's a third individual who named was Eddie West. And I have to say that neither my brother or Eddie West was ever interviewed, questioned, sought after by the police department. So Eddie West was the other guy in the store. Now, Eddie West was that one of the individuals that they mentioned that was out on the corner during the time the robbery was committed. Shannon France, though, was he had some involvement in the crime.
Is that right? Um, they've found his fingerprints on the cash box inside the lumber yard. That's not a good sign. They didn't find yours. No, they have no physical evidence or anything linked me to the crime, besides having a sibling who was mentioned to be outside with the individuals who was involved. So these guys go, they robbed the lumberyard and they shot clerk named Lloyd Campbell, both in the head and in the back, and then they found the strong box, they looted it. The two guys fled
the scene. Your brother was either there or not as a lookout whatever he was doing. He was apparently not in the store, that is correct. So how did your name come to be associated because it's sort of a leap to say, Okay, well they got your brother, now they're going to just go after you. Well, I could just tell you from the police reports the officers during the investigation when they received these names and photos of these individuals. Um, there was an address on the photo,
which was a promotional photo. At the time, I had a recording studio and we used to you know, range studio time out to individuals wanted the group, shouting my co defending he was an individual who was in the rap group which my brother was affiliated with a part of, and they had promotional photos up and down the avenue, the same avenue that these guys went and committed this
crime on. It so happened that they committed a crime across the street from his girlfriend's business, and his girlfriend best friend is the one that saw him out there and eventually gave his name in the photos to the police, to the detective Calabris. When Calabris was doing his investigation, all he did was run the address through the police system and my name came back because I was parole to the address. So when they discovered that I was
on parole, the whole case shifted to me. Um. Detective Calibies is quoted as saying that he had a gut feeling I was involved. He felt that I matched the description my brother was involved. He felt that if I wasn't involved, I knew something about it. And because I had a prior and I was on parole, they came for me. But you match the description of the actual shooter, um no, or the lookout? Um No? Whose description did you match? He said? I matched the individual who robbed
another patron of this lumber yard, Mr u Case. I didn't know what he was talking about. In my mind, I believe that eventually whatever they was trying to do with, you know, resolve itself. Because I didn't have I had nothing to do with any crime. This situation, you know, had me think about this one phrase, you know, and it always stuck with me that you you never get a second chance to make it for a impression. And because of my past is why I'm here today now.
I'm not a goodie two shoe. I wasn't and that is only because I tried to fit in with individuals I wanted, you know, to be down. I brought up my father's the pastor. I brought up in church. I went to church the majority of my life, and I wouldn't lie, you know, I hated church. I was forced to go every day. I wouldn't say a worse experience, but just not to do what normal kids do was kind of tough for me because I was a free spater.
Like so, when I was like seventeen, I tried to move out and so I saw to sell drugs and my best friend and that's how I got into the life of criminality and things of that nature. And subsequently I did get rested for drug sale robbery and I went to Racket's Island and I had a traumatic experience. I got jumped, got stabbed, got robbed, and as time went on, and I knew that this wasn't for me, prison wasn't something that I wanted to do. It wasn't
a lifestyle that I wanted to live. And if you know, selling drugs all these other stuff was gonna lead me to prison. And I had to do away with that, and not just those activities, but also the people that I used to associate with, and that's what I did. You were really putting your life on track at this time, which is sort of an added element of tragedy. You had gone through some training to be an E. M. T. Right. Yes, that's correct, your young father, that's correct, and basically married,
recently married. Yeah, so you had your whole life in front of you. I had changed my life. I cut off all my friends. You know, I had a newborn, my daughter. She was only seven months when they took me from It's sickening, I mean, and let's set the record straight by talking about your alibi, which is a
bit of a sensitive topic. I mean, you were a married man, but your alibi involves another woman, right, sad to saying, Unfortunately, the day that they accused me of committing this crime, I was in the hospital with my wife, and I was also with another female friend before I was in the hospital with my wife. Right, like you said earlier, you had a recording studio set up in your parents basement. A young lady came to visit you there and spent the night. Now, unbeknownst to you, your
daughter had developed an ear infection. I was taken to the hospital that morning. Now there's no cell phones back then. Your wife was calling around looking for you, and she gets a hold of your mother, who walks the phone to you. Downstairs. You spoke with your wife, assured her that you were on your way, and then you shower and get the hell out of there. When I got there, you know, basically, my wife is just like him. She's
very possibility. Now, I had all and um, so you know, I did everything with until the doctors wanted to come and she had an earfecture so they wanted to do an X ray. Now, this is one of the things that baffled me even till today with all the technology and stuff that they have, my hands got captured in this X ray. When people read this case, really sit down and read this case, they wonder, how did you
get convicted? You had a solid alibi. I trial. One person testified against me, and I had four or five alibi witnesses that testified. The one person that testified against me, Mr you Keys, And I feel for him because I know that he's been duped because he told the none one one operated when he called them during the day that the crime was committed, about being robbed, about the individual being shot, or what have you. And when they asked him to give a description of the individual, he
told him that he couldn't. He said he never looked at the individual. You that he never looked at the person that robbed him. Wow, because he was afraid too, because he seen what happened to the guy that got shot. He was afraid for his life. He also told that to the first police that came on the scene. But yet here it is Detective Calbies is saying that this individual picked my picture up and said this is the
guy that robbed me. The district attorney is saying that the witness didn't say that the witness said that I looked like the individual that robbed him, But in all the police reports it's saying that the witness said that I'm the guy that robbed them. But in court, the district attorney is saying that the witness said that I looked like the guy that robbed him, and if he seen me in person, he would be able to identify me.
But here's the catch. The witness get on the stand and said that he never made no identification of me prior to my arrest. So how did I become a suspect? Which one is it? Right? Three different opinions about one identification? Now, who should you believe the detective who was saying that he positively identified me as the person that robbed him.
The district attorney who was saying that the witness said that I looked like the individual, but he will be able to identify me if he see me in person. Or the witness who said that he never made no identification when the police came to his house on numerous occasions. Who should we believe this guy? He didn't know me. The only thing that he knew, which he told the police was that the guy was dark skin and stocking, described half of your neighborhood. When they are asking, well,
how tall is this guy? He don't know. Is he taller than you, I don't know. Is he shorter than you? I don't know. Did he have a bid I don't know. Did he have a much stache? I don't know. For he didn't see him, what do you know? He was dark skin and stocky. They showed him the tape, and on the tape, you can't make the features out of the individuals to two perpetrators. You can't really make facial
features out of anybody on the tape. But the perpetrators had on hats and hoodies and three quarter length copes, and he stated that he couldn't see these individuals. He didn't know what the personal like. He don't know if they had a bed mustache anything. He was just duskin and stocky. So when you look at the tape, all you see is shapes and sizes. That's not enough. He couldn't even identify himself on the tape. During trial, the disc attorney had to reference something of what he had
on hold on the witness. This tape was so grainy that the guy couldn't identify him himself. Yes, when the disc attorney asked him to point to himself on the tape, he pointed to someone else. And then the disc attorney says, um, something like this is that you with the checkerboard shirt? Or who's who's in the checkerboard shirt or something of that effect right led him to basically say, oh, and then that's me standing right here. Okay, I've heard enough
about that. Now we know that's completely unreliable and out. That should have been out the window right off the bat. Uh. One of the things that sticks with me is the idea that detective Caliber has claimed that he could recognize you from a security tape because you could recognize your walk. Yeah.
I believe that was the lynch pin. That's that sealed my fate, because he got to understanding and he pointed me out in court and he said this is the guy, and they asked him how he knows and he says that he could tell that it was me because of how I walked. And the tape doesn't show the perpetrator from his waist down, and they showed this tape in court. But yet, you know, I believe that that was the nail in the coffin for me, because he's an officer.
They have a tape, and people believe even when I was healing, and I know that these judges never viewed the tape, but because of the language and the dialogue and the trial transcript, they even denied certain of my appeals because they saying you were clearly seen on the tape. The idea that anyone could identify anyone else short of someone who does have a physical, you know, impairment, for
impairment exactly what I was looking for, is preposterous. I mean, the fact that they would even present that as evidence is ridiculous. But they did, and the consequences are not funny at all. They're very real. So there's there's that, and then there's the fact that you know, we know, we know what happened at the trial, that you know your brother was not allowed to testify. That is correct because your lawyer didn't submit his name on the witness list.
Had he been able to, we don't. We never will never know what he would have said in the moment, but there's a realistic chance that he might have said something that could have exonerated you well at that time. My opinion and belief is that he wanted to come forward, and he did come to court to testify. And what I realized later is that my lawyer sent them home.
When they started to question my parents about my brother and his whereabouts, they answered truthfully that he was here, came to court today to testify, and the distric attorney stopped the proceeding and asked for a sidebar so they can discuss certain things which the scenographer records. And at this sidebar, the disc attorney wanted to bring up my lawyer on charges for lying about the whereabouts of my brother, because earlier that morning he said he don't know where
my brother was. He never seen them, he never met him. And then it was discovered later the same day that my brother was at his office that morning and he sent them home. Wow, that's a big lie, and it's in the trial transcripts. I'm not making it up. And he didn't he didn't forget that he saw your brother that day. I mean, because it was right, it was early that morning and trial was on and my brother came to testify at that time. I believe the best.
Now I understand why a person would be apprehensive for coming forward and trying to tell the truth about what really took place or who was involved things of that nature. Yeah, I mean, he's he's your your little brother. You know, he must have had a lot of conflicted emotions. I can't imagine being in his place. He's trying to save
his own life at the same time. You know, he's got I'm sure a lot of guilt about putting you in this situation in the first place, because you talked about how you never would have been in the system if you hadn't have done certain things when you were younger. But you also would have never been in this situation if your brother hadn't been involved in this thing in the first place. I think that I have said a bad president for my brother. I believe I was part
of the influence. Now. I don't know if he looked up to me, but I believe that some of my actions are friends that I had that was around probably also ropped off on him. Unfortunately, I wasn't around for him when he started to engage in activities and pick certain people as friends that I could have probably said, you know, those those are the guys you shouldn't think because what I tried to do was distance myself from everyone that was in my neighborhood at that point in
time when I started to claim my life up. I mean, you basically took the fall for your brother. Well, I wouldn't say that I took the fall. They gave it to me, right. Your last hope was that your lawyer was going to do a good job representing you and that the truth was going to come out. That's correct, and you're gonna go back and get him with your life. But in fact, your lawyer was compromised. Um, yes, as
it seems. I mean, he was kind of like conflicted in between his duties as a lawyer to me and also to the people that were paying him to represent me and the people that were paying him with your parents. Yes, it's almost they had a selfie's choice, that had to choose what they did choose and if they had to choose to save one job for me. It is basically,
and this was never spoken. This is just my thoughts as I got a little older and probably start to piece things together that you know, he had a pass, you know he was in trouble before. Maybe he could handle this and we would support him. But my brother, he's the baby. And you know the cops wasn't looking for him. They already gave him a clean slave and said they didn't want him. Even the district attorney said
that they had nothing to convict him on. So they look for the easy choice, the person that had the record. If we can't get his brother, then we're going to get him. You served UM twenty three years twenty three years and maximum security prisons in New York State. Was there a a worst moment um and was there a best moment? I mean I had a lot of not a lot of bad moments, but there this this fear. One of my worst moments. When I was in green
Haven in two thousand and I was in college. I was taking up Christian Ministry Human Services UM theology course. I was working in the barbershop and this particular day, I was coming from study hall that have my books, and I'm going back to my cell and I saw a crate and I was like, let me take the crateing put my school books in because if anything happened to the school books, I have to pay for. This is an old maximum security prison, so they have leaks
and waters, dripping all over the place. Sometimes you toil it over floor, your sinkle will flow. So long story show. The officers see me with the crate, tell me to put it back. I can't have it, and I complied. Supposedly he must have spoke to another officer because another officer calls me back and started going crazy on me, like what are you touching here? You know, don't and this, don't and that, and you know, I just stood there.
I figured, you know, okay, he got his buddies here, I'm gonna just listen to him, you know, comply and you know, hopefully, you know, I can go to my cell and lock in. And that wasn't the case, you know. So after he started to berape me about you know, touching stuff in his unit and all this other stuff, I said, okay, you know, I'm sorry. You know, here's
the crate. And I turned to leave. And I think at this point in time he felt like I was dismissing him, you know, or I left without his authority, saying okay, you go, and he took offense to me turning to leave, and he jumped on me. They beat me up. You see my elbow. M I left elbow. I've got a giant nodded it right. My shoulders still hurt to this day. They beat up my elbows, they beat up my shoulders, they beat me up, They dragged me to the box, and they try to charge me
with a soul. And that was like for me the worst day because everything that I was doing, I never had no physical altercations while I was in with inmates, all officers, anything of that nature. And I'm fighting my case and the only thing that's come into my mind is that maybe I have an opportunity to get out to prison for my case. But if they try to convict me for assault on the staff, which mostly everybody gets convicted of, you know, I just see my lights
go out. It's your word against officer words. And more than one officer is going to say that you didn't what you didn't do. And it's funny to me because it's like I'm saying to myself, like God, how does stuff and keep happening to me? And my parents they're so religious that you know they would hit you with you haven't submitted to God yet, you haven't let go. You're being tested, You're going through the fire, and you know, I cried like a baby because I've seen my lights
go out. And maybe this was also the opportunity that I've seen God working in my life. Because subsequently, guys that knew me, that locked on the company with me, they have wrote this Attorney's General Office to inspect the general. They have wrote Prison Legal Services, and and I never knew that people probably watched me or cared about me like that. I'm talking about inmates, hard and criminals or whatever.
And the inspect the general one the inspect the generals came to see me, and I've written to them again, um, because one of the guys inside the shoe area had told me, listen, you need to write these people. You need to write this person data data that. So I was getting advice from individuals or who I have to write, who I have to contact to try to get from underneath this, and um, so I wrote them as well. And when they came to see me, you know, we talked.
He says, well, we have to do our investigation and stuff for that nature. And then they came to see me, and I guess this is the first time in my life that I could say that I've seen the hand of God, because when he called me and they interviewed me. He says, Um, I have good news and bad news. The good news is that we're not going to charge you with assault on staff because I've read all the
reports that came in. I read the police reports, and I read not just your report, but I got several letters written from other inmates who have witnessed what took place. And I know that you didn't have contact with these individuals because they brought you to the box and it says your story and their story adds up, and none of the police stories adds up. But you have to go through the formalities. I still had their hearing to go to. And this is how corrupt the Department of
Corrections is. I remember the officer that had the altercation with me, that smacked me in my face and hit me with the sticks and all that, and it was two other officers there, but I didn't remember the too. And the reason why I remember the one is because as he was my company officer, he's there every day. The officer that comes in the hearing was in the officer that that that hit me or I had the
altercation with It was somebody else. And we're going through the formalities and questioning the officer and stuff like that. So the officers said that we were standing right shoulder, the right shoulder, and I took my left hand and punched him on the left side of his face. That caused him to bust his head on the pipes and bust his head open. And when I started to play if we stand the right shoulder to shoulder and I hit him with my left hand on the left side
of his face, how is that possible. I would have to go over It's not come back and hit him. And you know so, so I asked the officer to demonstrate this punch. Can you demonstrate how I hit you with my left hand on the left side of your face? If we stand the right shoulder the right shoulder, I
would like for you to demonstrate this. And the heroing officer said that there will be no demonstrations in here, so he never got to demonstrate, and I, you know, objected, and I told him that it's impossible that that can take place. Long story short, The officer that wrote the report or that they brought in that said he wrote the report. I asked him, did he see the police hit me? And he said yes. So then I asked them, then, why is it not written in the report that the
police struck me. The lieutenant looks and he's like, I said, It's not in the ticket, is not in the two firm reports, is not in any document that was given to me. So the lieutenant asked the CEO, why is that? And maybe at this time he was afraid. I don't know what it is, but I believe at this point in time, this is when I've seen God worked in my life. And he tells the truth. He says, I didn't write the report. The lieutenant said, you didn't write
the report. He said, no, I didn't write the report. He said, who wrote the report? He said, a sergeant such and such wrote the report. He said, where was the sergeant when the incident happened? He wasn't there. The sergeant wrote the report, made another officer sign it and sit in the hearing as the officer who witnessed what took place and knew nothing about it, and they dismissed
the case. Amen to that, um or, you might not be here now so and we know now that you paroled, And I want to get to that because that's a really extraordinary story in and of itself. I think it says a lot about what the parole board really thought about your claims of innocence. But before we get to that, I want to talk about what was going on on the outside. Because there was a guy in the neighborhood. I mean, can we mention his name? Well, for legal purposes,
you know, I wouldn't like to mention his name. He called My case is still being reviewed by the Convention Review Unit. So, but this individual was a childhood friend of mine. We had um I haven't seen each other in years, and he had moved away from the neighborhood. And when he came back to the neighborhood, he was looking, you know for old friends, and you know, subsequently he was looking for me and heard that I was in prison. So he wanted to know why, and the whole story
came out and he couldn't believe it. You know, he took it upon himself to try to help me. How did you do that? Well, the individual who actually committed a crime used to see him all the time, and because he's still living in the neighborhood, mostly people that knew both of us, he would ask them, you know, how they felt about him, and was he still you know, like welcome or they still had love for him, knowing that I was in prison serving time for a crime
that he committed. And my friend, he was like he couldn't believe this, and he's like, this guy just keeps saying that he did it. He did it, and he's the reason why you're in prison. You know, he wrote my letter. I showed you the letter that he wrote. And he took it upon himself too to record this individual, to tape him saying the same things about me being
in prison for a crime he committed. And he even went as far as that he used to he does security bouncing work because he's six eight, three hundreds something pounds, And this is God again in my life. He's so happened to be working doing security at a spot where Detective Calbies, leading detective in my case, was also working. What's the as of that m pretty long, and he spoke the Calibies about the case and told him that he had the wrong person in prison for the crime.
What Calibaries saying. Calibies just told him tell his brother to come forward and he can get out. That was his words, Secause Calibries knew and he had told me as much when he brought me in, you know, because he was like, where's your brother, where's his friends? And and I'm like, I don't know. I'm not my brother's keeper. You know, I don't live with my brother. I lived with my wife. But he didn't care about that. And you know, once things start to unravel in the conviction
review unit and they start to review my case. They reached out to him two to three weeks after they reviewed my case and next thing, you know, self inflicted wounds somewhere in his car. You know, it took his own life. Yeah, it seems like his conscience may have gotten to him. We will never know, um because he didn't leave a note or anything, right, but the timing seems really um to be suspicious. Yeah, I mean, the conviction review unit that starts looking into your case, it's
inevitable that they're going to find out what happened. Because the conviction review unit in Brooklyn, I can say this, they don't funk around. But these guys are under the leadership of Eric Gonzalis and before that, Ken Thompson. They are committed to finding and identifying and resolving wrong for conviction cases and they've been doing it and then walking the walk. And so once they took over reinvestigating your case, Detective Calibrizi must have known that some of his misdeeds
were going to become public. Yes, he did everything from interviewing the witnesses to getting the fillers for the lineups, conducting the lineup. I mean, nobody else did anything. His name is on all the reports. So the guy who holds the key is dead. Now you went to the parole board. Yes, and you did exactly the opposite of what all the smartest people you knew were the most wisest people. I should say, we're advising you to do right. I'm not gonna lie, you know. I was very apprehensive
as a russell with it. You know, if my wife was here, she would tell you, you know, because knowing what I know now, I had told her and I told her before that f I had a chance to do this all over again, I probably would have copped out to something less right. So I was gonna say is when you go to the parole board, the general rule, and this is with very very rare exceptions, the parole board wants to hear you express remorse for the crime. Whether you committed it or not. They don't know whether
you committed it. They don't have time to reinvestigate it. In New York State, the parole Board is reviewing ten thousand cases, around ten thousand cases a year, and there's only somewhere between twelve and nineteen people for the entire state in panels of three. So they have a few minutes to look into your case. They're not. They don't have time to go through it, even like we're doing now. So it would be great if they did, but they don't. The only human beings, they only you know, they don't
have so much time in a day. So the logical thing to do for somebody like you who is desperate to get out and get back with your family and get back on, you know, to your life, is to just plead guilty. And then they're most likely going to say, okay, well you've served twenty three years and you've done you know, ministry and all this other stuff in prison. Yeah, you can go home now. But you didn't know. And I mean I rustle with it. I prayed about it because
I want to go home. You know, what should I do? I mean, even though all these years I'm telling him I didn't commit the crime. Now I'm note for parole. What do I do do I go in there and put on the show and say that I'm remorse and I'm sorry and that you know, you know, I don't know what to say but the truth, and I rustle with it. And I mean, like people was telling me, don't go in there and tell them that you didn't do it. You're they're gonna hit you, They're going to
give you more time. And I said, well, I'm going in there and I'm gonna tell them what I've been telling them since the beginning. I didn't commit the crime, but I understand why it's possible for individual like me to be considered for a crime such as this, you know. And I'm gonna give them mind story about my past, how I came to be here today, and what I've done since I was incarcerated, and what I planned to
do when I get out. And for that whole ten days after that, I had to wait to get the results, seven or ten days. It was the worst week of my life. No sleep because that whole week already felt because the way that they spoke to me inside the parole board, I felt that there wasn't going to release me. My counsel gives me the envelope. I opened it, and to be honest, my eyes are teared up because I'm and I'm looking for the worst. And it's sad to
say I'm looking for denial. I'm just looking for any word with a D for denial, refused whatever, and I didn't see and my counsels like, um, you're okay. I said, yeah, I just um, I can't find the decision. So he's like, well, give it to me, and he highlights it he knew before and he gave it back to me, and I can't believe it. They let me go and I'll be lying out of there, you know, call my family and told them and it was overjoyed, but it was. It's
still a lot now just thinking about it. I can't imagine. Nobody can imagine that hasn't been through it. You know, that was the best moment for me in prison. That and and learning some stuff about myself because you know, like I became the director to US assistant program and I used to mentor teams that used to bring high school kids in and I used to speak to them about my life story. Boy, how I end up serving
a life scientis for a crime I didn't commit. And how easy it is for you define yourself in situations like this by the company that you keep in choices that you make and the brochure that I had pen had the title. You know, you never get a second chance for or suppression. It's been an extraordinary experience for me getting to know you and learning about your story.
Of course, you know, I thank you for coming in and sharing it, and I think that through your words it's going to inspire a lot of people to keep fighting whatever they're up against. And now it's time for my favorite part of the show. Fans of the podcast, no that this is uh the time when I turned off my microphone and just sit back and leave your
microphone on. For closing arguments, I guess the one of the most things that I could possibly say is for is for jurors, because district attorneys is going to be them. They trying to win cases. Officers are trying to lock
people up. But as a juror is your job to discern the truth, to find the truth, and sometimes I guess they get more clouded by what took place as opposed to what is the truth, and so emotions come into play with everything as opposed to rational and that's why you can find individuals such as myself in positions like this where you can do time for a crime you didn't commit, because people's emotions are more tied up in the event, but not trying to find the actual
truth when they sit on jervish on jury. I believe part of that outside of what the disc attorney did, the detective did, the jurors are the ones who has the final say, and if they don't use rationale to decipher the truth from the garbage that is being spelled out there, that's why there's so many of us in prison. Runefully anyone out there it is going through a situation such as this, Just continue fighting. No one knows what the future holes. And as hope, don't forget to give
us a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team Connor Hall and Kevin Wards. The music of the show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Rawn Full Conviction and on Facebook at Rawn Full Conviction. Podcast Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one a w