Bobby Jean Johnson was given up for adoption at birth and later molested while she was in foster care. She ran away from that horrible situation and tried to survive as a sex worker on the streets of New Orleans. In nineteen seventy seven, an antiquities dealer named Arthur Sampson was found dead at his Saint Charles Avenue shop. He had been shot once in the stomach with a thirty
two caliber bullet, had stabbed over one hundred times. The store was ransacked and safe was missing about two thousand dollars. A month after the murder, Bobby Jean was writing and what she did not know at the time was a stolen car with two men. When they were pulled over by the police for a traffic violation. One of the men stashed a knife, a thirty two caliber revolver, and
Bobby Jean's purse. At eighteen years old, Bobby Jeane Johnson was brought in for a violent interrogation that would change the course of her already tragic and vulnerable life. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction today. I have a guest who is um one of the most extraordinary people with one of the most insane stories that I've ever heard. And she's also just a beautiful, beautiful person. Um. So,
Bobby Jean Johnson, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. As I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but I'm glad you're here and everyone will find out why. Um And with her is Kat Forrester, who is the communications director for the Instance Project of New Orleans, also known as Hypno and Cat. Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. Thanks so much, happy to be here. So, Bobby Jean was freed from prison two thousand eighteen after serving forty one years in prison for a crime she
didn't commit. And this case has so many of the hallmarks of the causes of wrongful victions that you know, it's almost a clean sweep, so to speak. I mean, there was misconduct, there was a false confession that you were tortured into making. Incompetent defense. It's not even that's not even strong enough of a word. And we're going to get into that all of that. But we're talking about the murder of Arthur Sampson, right, And this is
an extremely violent crime. This was a white man who was an antiquities dealer in New Orleans who was shot and stabbed a hundred times. I mean, that's a vicious, vicious crime. And just to paint a picture for people who are listening, how tall are you? You're five feet tall, and you're not a big one. Wasn't that big at the time. I was like ninety eight pounds, like and I wall size zero paints. I could go with my clothes out the children's section. So the whole thing makes
no sense just on a purely physical level. And Mr Sampson, I mean, nobody deserves to die like he did. But he was a sort of a dicey character anyway. Right. He was known for bringing sex workers to his home, which is one of the reasons why the logical suspect would have been this woman who was a sex worker who was the last person to see him alive. Yeah,
she was the last person he was seen with by anyone. Right, So usually you know, we all watched those crime shows on TV, you know, you go down that path at least take a look, you know, but that's not what happened. Um, what year was this by you were an eighteen year old girl, yeah at the time, so what was going on? You were living in New Orleans at the time. Yeah, and I was like on drugs and stuff, right. So
one night we was riding in a call. It was me and two other dudes were running call and the cops, the police stopts for traffic of valation. Were you driving? No? I wasn't driving all right. And at the time when the police stopped us, that wanted the dudes that was in the call with me, do the knife in a gun in my person? So wouldn't because I know I didn't have no knife and gun in my purse. So when the police pulled all my stuff about my person, he said, oh, we got a knife and the gun.
I said that it's not for me. But on they took us to homotide On Division and they put us in different rooms and kept question and I was in questions and I kept tell him I don't know nothing about I don't even know what his place is at. And I heard this man and so I wanted the dudes to do they put the gun in and I didn't make a statement and said, app when y'all stopped this, I put that knife in the gun. And Bob jeans, that's not hos I did it. And he made a statement,
they just ignored a statement. I mean, cat, do you think they knew at the time that they had the wrong person, but they just wanted to clean up the case and that was what was really going on. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think they had a pretty viable suspect and they didn't follow any of the leads and that other suspects case. UM. And I think that so often, particularly you know, back in the seventies, eighties,
nineties in New Orleans. UM, particularly with black folks. I think that they, you know, the cops got tunnel vision and you know, when they found somebody and it seemed easy enough to pin it on that person, you know, even if all the evidence in the world pointed to someone else. So often they just got tunnel vision and um focused on one person and you know, force their theory of the case to fit to that person. So they knew, they knew that this guy had come forward
who admitted that he had a classy guy. By the way, it's a cops coming. He's putting his his knife and he's going to be your purse. I mean, that's a hell of a thing. And when you were arrested and if you're okay, even talking about it. I mean what I've read about the interrogation that you went through, this is like something out of you know, a bad movie, or out of the torture that you read about in in a foreign country or Abu grab, you know, something
like that. But I mean you went to the police station and what happened, and then they put it in separate rooms, and uh they kept throwing pictures in front me and they say, uses him him. I said, well, I've never seen that man before, the dead guy. You had a dead man all the samson and then uh one he had me in my face. He said, no, listake or to the other room. So when they took me to the other room, they still was asking me. So when I kept saying I don't know. I can't
tell you nothing. I don't know, he said, oh, you're gonna know, and he called me a black bee and he put my hand, got me to the back behind his like wooden chair and put a plastic bag over my head. The chair fell back and they started kicking me in my ribs and all over and hit me.
And he kept saying, black bee, Yeah, you're gonna tell us because we know, you know, we know you know he's said, because let me tell you, he said, ain't number of police officers in this in the station right here, and we could kill you and your family would never know nothing about you. So I'm scared to that. And so he said, come on, we're going bagging there by the time, he said, you're gonna put on and if you don't, you get some more. And I was scared
of that. I was crying and everything. I had five police officers standing up behind me and one sitting down who had the table carter and um, he said, now you're ready, I said, I haint, I don't know that he said. He turned the tape off and he said, you're gonna repeat what I said, yeah, until minute. So I was so scared. I did everything that was telling me to put on put on, but it was a lie. I did it because I was scared. Well, yeah, you
had a very good reason to be scared. I mean that was certain everywhere and even after the j F fail back with they was kicking me in my rooms and everything. It was horrible and Jason, I just wanted to say that, like the world had not been kind to Bobby Jean before this all happened. You know, she had had a really tough up upbringing, and it makes so much sense that she would do anything to kind of survive, right this, this brutal police interrogation and beating.
Thank you, Bobby. Um. Yeah, I just feel like the world had not been kind to her, had not offered her a lot of hope. Um. And I you know, I think because I was I was given away with my mama had me and I had to go on like that. It was like I was scared, Oh world, am I shoulder? So I just got out there and I just wanted about it. Loved me and I just wanted to be accepting and stuff. So whenever it took
for me to do that, I did it. And she was she was a young a young girl, as you keep kind of pointing out, you know, who was doing the best she could with what she had. Um. And then and then this thing happened to her, right yeah, then this thing happened. This is you know, there's been too many of these cases where we've learned that the officers have threatened to kill the person unless they confess. Johnny and CAPI A is one thing of a year,
I guess in Texas. There's too many of these. And you know, Johnny says to me, he was on the podcast and he said, um, he ask me, why would I confess? And he was eighteen like you were, And uh, he says, why wouldn't I confess? He goes, I wanted to live? You know what I want? I just want I wanted to live. I was a young girl eighteen.
You're really more of a child than a woman. I mean at that point, you know, I mean, we know that the adolescent brain doesn't fully develop until you and here you are not just a younger but a little girl, right um pounds like you said, in a room full of big, tough guys who you would want to think are gonna protect you, right, um. And in fact, they're
threatening in a very real way. Right. It's not like it doesn't sound like an empty threat when they're putting a plastic bag over and beating you and kicking you. I mean, so, I don't think there's any question. And I think it's so important that you're here, and I really appreciate you. I know it's difficult for you. I can see how difficult it is, but it's so important for the public to understand that these false confessions happen
for a variety of reasons. Not everybody's tortured, but a lot of people are psychologically coerced or their trad or they're you know, confused. So yeah, in your situation, I don't think anyone would probably behave any differently than you did. But then what a difficult thing to live with. Two Because knowing as you're going to prison for the rest of your life that you are in a certain way responsible because you you know, you admitted something that you
didn't do. But but her confession didn't match the facts of the case anyway. No, she I mean she got a lot of of it wrong. Um, I mean she didn't get much of it right actually, And that's also a typical thing in these false confession cases. After torturing her for hours, the police were able to extract the taped confession that was riddled with inconsistencies. According to that false confession, Bobby Jeane and a woman named Kimberly Legan
had met Sampson in the French Quarter. Legan solicited him for sex, then when he brought them back to his store, and again back to the false narrative that she created just to make the torture stop. She said, Bobby herself at him once in the chest and once in the head, and then her friend Legan stabbed him over one hundred times. Then they robbed his store and sped off in a stolen Pontiac grhand Prix. Now for the actual facts, Arthur
Sampson was shot only once in the stomach. Bobby Jean described Sampson as being twenty years younger and a half foot taller than he was. And lastly, the Pontiac grhand Prix would not have made a good getaway car, as it was not stolen until hours after the murder. The man who had stashed the thirty two caliber revolver and knife her person made a statement admitting to just that, but that fact was inconvenient to the prosecution's narrative and
was therefore hidden from the defense. All of this could have been brought up during trial if Bobby Jean had adequate counsel. However, with no family and no backup whatsoever, Bobby Jean didn't have a chance in help. Now you're taking to jail. How long did you have to wait for your trial? Eighteen months? Eighteen months in jail? And I know how bad that must have been, because jails, I mean, anywhere terrible, but in New Orleans. Um, it's infamous,
it is. Yeah, your trial was. Um, it was like the combination of a bad dream and a bad joke because the people who were supposed to be defending you did nothing of the sort. And can you talk about that? Yeah again, Um doing my trial, Um, my lawyer wouldn't let me get understanding and talking my own defense. He fell asleep through the trial. The lawyer was asleep. Yeah, he fell asleep on the trial. I had to wake him up. And he didn't do no opening um statements,
no opening statements, and no clue was in statements. And um. One of the jewels stood up and state told the Joys, I cannot give miss Johnson a fair trial because I had a relationship with this man. The judic said, be seated with the victim. Yeah, and he Um, Now I know because when I was in prison, I took fairly and I graduated from it. But my lawyers should have called a mistrial. When that Jews stood up and he didn't say not a wound, and the judge said, just
let's let's please proceed. I mean I've been doing this work for over twenty five years, and I've heard a lot of stories. I've never heard that before. I mean, I've heard stories of yours that had but I never heard a juror actually stand up and admit to you. She raised her hand and she said, yeah, can I get this lady a bit trial? Because I had a relationship with Mr Samson, and so your lawyer was asleep,
you're waking him up. He made no opening statement, he made no closing statement, and he didn't object didn't call him miss trial. He made one objection throughout the trial, to the admission of a photograph um. He has a total of eight cross examination questions, the majority of which dealt with the ballistics of the gun. No opening and no closing, and he presented no case theory. He essentially did nothing except Jake and ned. Yeah. I mean, he
didn't defend you so much as process you. Right when I was in jail, when they appeared him to me, he never came seeing me. Only time I seen him was at court and sometimes when they would have court days for me, but he wouldn't be there, so they would postpone it so another day. Oh so that's why I took eighteen months again to trial because he wouldn't show up. He wouldn't show up. Did at any point did you request a different lawyer? Did you even know that you? I didn't know. I was young and I
didn't know, and you probably. I mean, I would think in that situation, you know nothing about alone, right And I would think again in that situation that you would be worried if you did request when then you can upset the only guy who's on your side right now? Did you have any family in the courtroom with you or anything like that? Nobody? Did you? All alone? Jesus Christ took them less than an hour to come back with a guilty verdict. Yeah. So when I got there,
at first, I wasn't because I was angry. I was angry and I was hurt because when I was I started fighting all this it didn't matter no more because I had it was like, well, Baptine, you got a life sentence, now, it's nothing you could do. You to go on to die in this prison. But then I started praying and praying and praying and won't. The last fight I had, I remember, I was in the cell. I just felt to my knees and I said, God, just take my life. I'm I'm tired of living like this.
Take my life and do what you want to do with it. And from that data this was I ain't been the same. I grew up, I got more mature, and I did everything I could do. They was they was offering on the g D. So I know I had been on the school a few months and stuff, and I got in this trouble because I know I was a small girl. I had just I hadn't graduated. I dropped out at the eleventh grade. And um, so I took the g D and I passed the g D. It was giving grand self for introduction in the business
payroll accountant and pay league. First I took the pair or legal one and I passed with a four partower. Yeah, and I studied hard or I started hard because I wanted it and I wanted I did everything I could to rehabilitate myself in every kind of way. It was nothing I didn't do positive in jail. I had fights in jail because I was small, and they thought I was scared of it, but I wasn't. And I had fights with quite a few people. But I grew and amateure. I did everything I know to do right. I was
a law curtin and all this in the prison. When I got into the oh, the lord librry, I started writing to everybody to try to help me. One day my sister said, just sent me all your pavoits and my British Innocent Project. And when I sent them all to it, they got him and they started working on my case immediately. Every two weeks they would be update to see me and it tell me how the case was going on. And then the day oh, I went to quote on the sailing. I didn't even know I
had a quote on the day. Oh, it's it's if having to get ready. You got a culture, I said, a court rebound. You all. I have never taken me back to court, so I didn't know what was going on. So I said, okay. When I got drissed, it brought me to call house and all my all Liam was
in the court room for me. A lawyers, yes, but all my lawyers walked up with me to the podium when I had to do the bleed in everything for many long years, both the Promise of Justice Initiative and the Innocence Project of New Orleans worked tirelessly on Bobby Jeane's case, investigating leads, studying the evidence, and identifying the inconsistencies in her violently courced false confession to eventually force
the District Attorney's office to offer a plea deal. The deal was this her first degree murder conviction and life sentence would be vacated, but Bobby Jean had to plead guilty to manslaughter and armed robbery in order to be re sentence to time served. Her attorneys also had to drop any claims that the d a's office did not turn over exculpatory evidence. This was not the outcome that day or anyone who cared about Bobby Jean had hoped for, but it was the only one that would set her free.
It's really sort of the last miserable aspect of this case is the fact that even after all these years, and even after it's been proven that you had nothing to do with this, they still wouldn't admit their mistake, right because they wanted to maintain the conviction. They want to make sure you didn't get anything for it. So the d A's office in New Orleans forced you to take a plea just to sort of could be free, as that was the only way that you take this
flee or you stay in for its right. I think anybody would do what you did. And and Cat, I want you to jump in here anytime, because I know you're intimately familiar with this case, and I know how proud you are of the work that as I am as a supporter of Innocence Project New Orleans, I'm so proud of the work that they did. And I'm so happy.
I mean, I saw those pictures when and I posted on my Instagram, UM, which is at it's Jason Flam as people know, but I posted the pictures of Bobby Jean walking out of prison that day, and just my heart was breaking or or or floated. I was breaking, My heart was breaking, and I was floating in the air, and it was a whole crazy thing. Can you shine some light on this, Cat, because this this case is bizarre even by our standards. Yeah. Absolutely so. It was
a case that we worked on for for several years. UM. One of the attorneys in our office, Shrell Arnold, worked on it for a long time and it ended up being UM the Promise of Justice Initiative, incredible organization in New Orleans who ended up freeing Bobby Jean and walking
her out of prison. But we were there because she was, you know, the first female client who we had really worked on her case for for for a long time and had a really good lead and and and part of that is because, as you know, Jason, I'm or you know, women aren't often sentenced to life in prison or long prison sentences, which is what HYPNO does is free innocent life sentence prisoners. UM. And and women so often are caught up in things that men do right there,
or they harm or kill their domestic abusers. UM. And so this was you know, really exciting for us, I think because it was the first time that we'd worked with a woman, UM for a number of years. UM. And of course Bobby Cheen is just incredible, and you know, I think having her come home, UM, I actually came and hung out with her in Atlanta when she got home, and we went to the aquarium and UM started learning how to use a cell phone and as as I think, we showed you some pictures and UM, it was a
really incredible moment. I you know, can't imagine being incarcerated for forty one years, no I mean, when you put that in context, that's I mean, you were only eighteen at the time, so that's twice as long as you had been alive, plus another five years. I mean, it's it's impossible, I think for anybody to comprehend who hasn't been through it. Jesus, who was president when you went to prison? I don't remember. I don't know Jimmy Carter was president. That's god. Yeah, I mean it's a low time.
Most of the people who are listening to the show weren't born yet. Um, and everything was different. Um. And then you come out into a world where everybody's walking around typing on their phones, cross's going everywhere, like there's just everything is different. When I at my first phone in my hand, was like, oh my god. Kay. She had to show me everything, had to turn it on and everything. First thing she wanted was an Instagram account. Yeah,
what is it? What is your Instagram account? I don't know. She doesn't know, Bobby. So you walk out, I mean, what what the difference? You? You go win as it's scared, brutalized, young nineteen twenty year old woman, but eighteen when you went to jail, um, and you come out as a an accomplished, mature, fifty nine year old woman. You walk out into a world that looks almost nothing like it did when you went in. Its New Orleans don't look nothing like it did when I went in. I mean
I almost forgot the names of the streets. That's how definitely looked at me. Yeah. I had five five my lowers with me, and it was just, I don't know, it was a feeling I never had before. I used to pray every night, God, you might only witness and you know I didn't kill nobody, just open these doors and help me. Every night I prayed that in my room. It was so aw for me. Here we are at the Innocence Network conference. By the way, how about this conference, Bobby,
It's amazing. Yeah. So we're here at the Innsence Never Conference with about two hundred exonrees and six hundred UM people activists, social workers, UM, civilians who want to get involved. Two of them are in the room with us right now. UM. We have lawyers here, we have experts on everything from you know, false confessions to uh, you name it, and uh it's an awesome, awesome thing. I mean, people are connecting and strategizing and coming up with best practices and
helping each other. And yeah, I mean we have we have thirty five new Exonorees here that we're on stage last night saying and dancing and it was some crazy scene and it's amazing, including you. Yeah, yeah, I are you up there? How to feel to be up there? Bobby Jane? It was it feel good? It felt good for you to connect with the other axonorees. What is
that experience like? It's just like because I just don't I said, I knowing it that many people there is both convincious and it made me feel good to know that I was. I was. I wasn't the only one. Oh no, hell no, but I didn't know it at the time. But it really feel good. And to know how much love this we show to each other. Mm hmm. Yeah, we ain't done yet. We're gonna be loving on you for the well for the rest of the time, but especially the less next twenty four hours, and we're all
gonna be here together. It's gonna be amazing. Um. And I know that people are are so glad that you're here. It's amazing, right, Yes, yeah, I mean, I'm so honored to be here and be a part of this movement. Um. I will tell anybody who's listening that, Um, you know, I call it selfish altruism because I could cosider it a privilege and an honor to get to be around people like yourself and to be able to make some small difference is uh, you know, it's the most rewarding
thing in my life. I mean, you know, obviously you know, I'm a father and that's a tremendously important thing to me. But beyond that, it's the most important work that I can imagine being involved with. And you're a living proof of it. And here we are celebrating you and celebrating freedom and working on getting the next people out. And and so now you're living in Georgia, in Georgia the cat and what gives you join? Now? Do you have
any joy in your life now? I have to enjoy in my life now because it's like living where I live. I can come and go with exact please. Anybody could come get me and like take me wherever they want, seem like, if they want to take me out did or whatever, I could do it. And they have a lot of activities because I'm because I'm because of my age. They have a lot of activities for all and I always attended. They have the church service. I always attended
and they treat me good. And what is it thing you do once a month, Bobby Jean, Oh, I'll go to George's Innocent Project. I'm a man of the George's Innocent Project and I never missed a meeting. I'm always there. Yeah. They've really lovingly taken her into the agonary meetings that happened once a month there so she gets to hang out with other wrongfully incrstor to people who live in Georgia. I see you got the shirt on Georgia. You go,
what did Geogia Innocent Project shirt? I say, yeah, I don't have one for all if no where, I need to get you a justice shirt. I know I have a justice I think we can arrange that you got that one. I got it, Okay. Perfect teamwork makes the
dream work. Um. So this is the part of the show that is my favorite part because this is the part of the show where I get to First of all, I thank you well, thank you for having me, Bobby, Geene Johnson and cat Forrester, thank you for coming and sh especially Bobby obviously Bobby Team, for I know how difficult it is to talk about these things, and it's so important that you're here. UM, So you know, thank you on behalf of me and all my listeners and
everybody in the Innocence Network. And then this is the part where I get to stop talking, and UM, I turned it over to you two fabulous ladies for final closing thoughts. UM, and I think we should we should finish with you Bobby, because UM, I want to hear anything you have to say, any anything at all about any subject. But first, Cat, what what are your closing thoughts. I'm just so glad that we helped get her home.
And I was thinking about it because we're at the aquarium last night for the Innocence Network dinner, and we went to the aquarium right after she got out, and to see the joy on her face, you know, at like you know, seeing very cool fit um was just unparalleled. UM. And I'm just so glad to have been able to experience that with her and just see, you know, how many new things she gets to explore in this life now that she's a free, a free woman. Yeah, it
was amazing to me because the Querum. I would always say that the short on't teel how I used to say, I want to go there. I want to go there. So when Cat him and she said, you want to go to the Quirre. And when she did, it was like a joy. A lot of George just jumped on my face. I said, yeah, I want to go. I wanna go Cat, I want to go see him. And when I came seeing it was so beautiful. I just it was so amazing out here. But Cat led me all the way through and she was there, you have
nowhere has been there for me. I could call him in any given time or whenever, and if it's a problem I have, they would do their best to fix or if I like sometimes I used to get depressed and stuff and I used to call him me. It's tall. And Angelique has been marvelous. Oh my gosh, she has been great. She client services specialist. Yes, she has been great. No matter what. If she can't call me back at the time, she takes me back and say I'll call you in a few minutes. Just hold long and um.
But it has been great and it's and I'm happy to be home. I'm happy. I'm happy more happy now than I've ever been in my life. I didn't I never knew so much love and stuff, but now I do, and it's it's great. It's just that they took a lot of away from me. They took everything away from me for nothing but something I didn't even do. I lost everything. Oh, my youth was gone. And I just want to thank you Jason for having me. Wow, We're gonna be here for you too. Um, you have a
whole new family now. You got family members here now, and you've got a lot more that are listening to the show. And so um you're You're a brave and strong and amazing woman and we're gonna support you in every way we can. So um, so again, thank you for being here, Thanks again for listening. Um, I'm gonna go try to recover. That's what I'm gonna do. And uh and and we'll see you next week. I'm wrong
for conviction. I have some devastating news to share. Um. Bobby Jane Johnson, who I recorded this amazing, haunting episode with, passed away. Um. It was unexpected. I'm no doctor, but I can say that she died of the abuse and neglect that she suffered at the hands of the State of Louisiana during her forty one years of wrongful incarceration. Bobby was an angel on earth. She was just a beautiful, damaged soul who wanted nothing but to be loved and
to help others. And she was out less than eighteen months when she died. And I bring that up because it's a sort of a hidden and horrible truth. I don't know the statistics nationally, but in the state of Louisiana, approximately of axonorees die within eighteen months of their release from prison. It's really hard for me to process this one. We were planning Bobby's birthday party when we got the news. She had called me and said that she called me, Mr j She called me. She called me, she says,
mr Ja. She goes, you know, my birthday is coming up. And she said in her little voice, because you know, she's only about nineties something pounds, and she said, you know, I've never had a happy birthday. And you know, that really just messed my head up, as you can imagine. So we began planning myself. Stacy Ryan, who mentored her hero the band Um wonderful rock and roll band that
I work with from Atlanta. We all were putting our resources together and planning a big, beautiful birthday celebration for her in Atlanta, and you know, just a week before it was supposed to happen, we got the news that she was gone. So um, Bobby Jean, You're gone, but never forgotten. Rest in power. Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very
important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Awards. The music in the show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and
on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one