#101 Jason Flom with Valentino Dixon

In twenty eighteen, I interviewed Valentino Dixon. He had been out of prison for just twenty nine days after serving almost three decades for a crime they knew he didn't commit from the first moment. There was no need to prosecute him. There was no need to arrest him. He had alibis. I mean, it's crazy. So the good news is some incredible things have been happening for Valentino since he got out and since he recorded his episode of

I've never been in trouble in my life. I didn't even have a Perkin ticket, you know what I mean. I was brought up like cops are the good guys.

I didn't know what was gonna happen, but I do know that everything was stacked against me. Everything everything, This isn't supposed to happen this way. I'm innocent. I know I'm innocent. I know I had nothing to do with this. How is this possible?

I grew up trusting the systems. I've grew up believing that every human being should do the right thing. And that's why, even though I knew I was dealing with core rough people, I wasn't going to break anyone to get me out of prison because I wouldn't live with the fact that I braved my way out of my wife's death.

I'm not innocent. Too proven guilty. I'm guilty until I prove my innocence. And that's absolutely what happened to me.

Our system.

Since I've been out ten years, it has come a little ways, but it's still broken.

I totally lost trust in humanity after what's happened to it.

Welcome back to Wrong for Conviction. I am extremely excited today to have somebody who I admire greatly, Valentino Dixon. Welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

So.

Valentino was released from prison declared actually innocent twenty nine days ago, after having been in since nineteen ninety one. Yeah, and we are in twenty eighteen.

That's right, that's what they tell me.

Yeah, so that's a long long time.

Yes, yes, it is.

For crime that not only didn't you commit, but a crime that everybody knew you didn't commit from day one, because of the simple fact that the actual killer confessed on video.

And here two days after I was arrested.

Right, so you know, and I hear myself say that, and I'm like, Okay, that can't be. I mean, that doesn't make any logical sense our system, and that wasn't the only time you confessed. But let's go back. I mean, we're talking about a murder case, seventy witnesses. It would seem impossible for this to have happened in a situation like this one. This was not an isolated thing on a dutchy road somewhere. This was a crowded it was a summer night in Buffalo, New York East Buffalo, right, yep.

Well, I was hanging out with some friends, and before I came on the scene, some threats had been made, okay, but it wasn't my issue, so I didn't think a whole lot of it. You know, where I come from, these type of things happen all the time. No, the threats were made, I was aware of it. I went inside the store to get a beer. I'm reaching in the cooler and I hear pop pop. So instead of standing in the store, I run out of the store.

So you knew what it was right away.

Of course, I've heard gunfire before. I come from the worst parts of Buffalo, New York. I mean, very violent area, drug infested area, so you know, gunfire wasn't something that was new to me. You know. So I'm in the store, reaching to get a beer out and I hear the pop pop. The only thing that come in my mind

Wait wait, wait, okay, hold on, let's go back to this for a second. So, first of all, you're twenty one years old at this time, and four people get shot, right Toriano Jackson was killed.

Yeah, and his brother was shot, and Mariol Jarman was shot because Tory shot Mario before this guy Lamore ran up and shot Tory and Aaron. You know, he came to Mario's defense.

Got it and he said, I saw the video where he said that he couldn't control the weapon and it just well automatic weapon.

Yeah, from where when I ran down the street towards my car, I actually turned around and the shooting was still going on. You know, Lamore was doing the ball of the shooting at the time. You know, I could see it from where I was. You know. When the police you know, pulled me over, of course, I said I didn't know who did the shooting. You know, it's like a cold thing, you know, that's not my business. And they pretty much told me that if I didn't tell them who did the shooting, that I was going

So you were in jail for these ten months waiting no bail, they said, Nobel, you were held with out bail. Yeah, and even if it had been bailed, the probably wouldn't be able to bail out, regardless wealthy family or anything like that. I had a public defender, public defender. And you were the only person arrested for this.

I was the only person arrested.

And did they test you for the residue?

They took my clothes, they took my car. They told me, if I fire the weapon and they would know, there's no way I would have been able to wipe off that much gum part of the residues. This is what they told me.

Of course, I were right right. It was only minutes later when you got pulled over.

So I just knew once they took this stuff to the lab or whatever they were going to do with it, that I would be okay, you know. But even then, with all of those witnesses. You know, I didn't ever expect for this guy to come and confessed. You know, that was something that people don't do. You know, he came and confessed, and they kicked him out of the police station said, you know, like get out of here. We don't believe you. Okay, that's crazy, you know, it's it's you can't make this stuff up.

But valancing what I mean, what could have You've had twenty almost thirty years to think about this, right, the better part of three decades to.

Think about this.

What could they possibly have been thinking if they had the actual killer.

First of all, it was ego, you know, when you have eagles and careers on the line, you know, and you don't want to admit that you made a mistake. You know, I'm a young black guy from the hood with no money. We don't even have to say that we made a mistake here. We're just going to go through this process and convict him.

But this wasn't a particularly high profile can we know that?

You know, No, it wasn't, you know, but for whatever reason, the prosecutor at the time, you know, he was, this guy was, you know, criminal. I call him a criminal. You know, in fact, he was with the DA's officers not saying right now that they fired this guy. You know, they fired him, and even when I was released, these facts never came out. They kicked him out of the office. You know, he even admitted that, you know, he could have made a mistake in my case six seven years ago,

But going back, the thing about your case that's so maddening and confusing and just inexplicable.

Don't try to don't try to figure it out, Jason. There's no there's no way to there's nothing to figure out here. This is this is our system, and if you come up against a bad prosecutor or a couple of bad cops, then this is what's gonna happen. People are human beings, and this you know, you have some bad apples in the system.

I'm right with you, and I'm picking up what you're putting down. But having been doing this for twenty five years now and having been we we're in seven seasons of the show, so we've gotten in real granular tell with so many people who are wrong for the convicted, like yourself. And you know, just when I think I've heard every story, and of course somebody like you comes along and I'm like, oh, I've never heard anything like

That well, let me just say this, I'm a stronger believer in God, and I have a strong faith, you know, and I believe that he had a plan for me, you know, And that was my way of rationalizing what happened here and keeping my sanity, you know, because you know, prison is designed to break the spirit. So I knew that guy had a plan for me, and he kept me strong, you know. He you know, allowed me to learn a lot, read a lot, educate myself elf, you know.

The I'm gonna say.

I mean, you can go on and on. I'm just saying in my mind, you know, I have to keep it as simple as possible to keep my sanity, you know, you know, I mean, it was like the worst nightmare in the world, you know, and you can't even make a night you can't even you can't even put a script together and make a nightmare out of this thing, like it's I mean, even when I went to trial, I could have been acquitted. Had my lawyer call the witnesses that he promised the jury he would call.

That's exactly what I want to get to now, because your case, as much as it has some extremely unique aspects, it also has some some characteristics that we see over and over again and wrong for conviction cases. And one of them was the fact that you were represented by a grossly incompetent public defender. And I'm somebody who has a ton of respect for public defenders. In fact, if anyone who can see that movie Gideon's Promise, you come out of that and you watch it and you go, man,

I mean, they say this before I even started trial. You know, I was young, but I knew something was wrong. You know, I actually accused him of conspiring with the prosecutor at the time, And this is on the trial record, you know. And the judge told me too that I should be happy to have such a lawyer and that we were proceeding forward with the trial. So it's not like twenty seven years later I'm stating that you know

So you as a young man with no experience in criminal justice, and no, you didn't have a higher education like that year. But and from being inside jail, you were still able to ascertain or to surmise that this guy was not your friend and was not going to do you any good, right, because and that's what a devastating thing that is too, because here you have the one person who's supposed to be your protector and you can't even trust them.

No, well, it's called common sense, you know. Common sense is could be worth all the money in the world, you know, if you use it at the right moment, you know. So he hadn't came to visit me but one time for maybe fifteen to twenty minutes. During the whole entire time that he represented me, he hadn't interviewed ninety percent of the witnesses in the case. So I knew something was wrong there, you know, and I told

So yeah, I'm trying to envision that too. So first of all, let's just get back to fifteen to twenty minutes in the course of ten months, and your life is at stake, and that's all the time he's got for you. Now, I know he's busy, he's got a lot of lower cases whatever, But have that many murder cases, right, and I'm sure a lot of the cases were more minor in terms of the you know, charges, and you would hope that somebody that came would prioritize a situation

Let me just say this, Jason. You know, and all professions you have bad people. You know, you have good doctors, you have bad doctors. You know, have good lawyers and bad lawyers. Good judge is a bad Joe. And if you get if you end up with one of those types of people, then it could be disastrous. It can mean your life. And this is just the reality here.

That's I mean, that's well said, but this is I mean, it's hard to think for me that there's the same percentage of doctors. Right, And there's that big hit podcast out now, doctor Death, about a doctor who is deliberately killing his patients right, right, but or maiming them or whatever. Is horrible, But I got to believe those are outliers, and most doctors are doing the right thing, yeah, and actually probably helping their patients, you know, more than they're

Didn't deliver an opening statement, you know. But he promised the jury during jury selection that he would call witnesses that would clear me. He says, I'm gonna call witnesses that's going to tell you that Valentino Dixon didn't do this shooting. The problem is is that not only did he not give opening he didn't call any witnesses, okay, And he asked the judge for advice on what he should tell the jury doing his closing summation because they

Okay. So just so we're clear, no opening statement, no witnesses.

No, it's not one. That one. And not only that, he didn't introduce one exhibit during the trial. So he

I hate to say it, but if I was on the jury, I probably would have convicted you two.

Well, no, listen to this. Years later, what I found out through the Buffalo News paper they wouldn't interview the jury foreman. Ten years later and they says, well, we're looking into this case, you know, can you tell me what happened? The jury foreman says that, and I have the statement he says that after I was convicted, he went to the judge's chambers and asked the judge could he speak with them. The judge allowed him to come in. He says, Jre, honor, I don't feel right here or

Wow, go home, sleep well, don't worry about it. And now, by the way, the jury foreman was a little late too, write I mean you know, I mean I respect him.

Ten years later, ten years after Yeah, but the oh.

Wait, it was ten years after they went to see the judge.

No, he went to see the judge right after the verdict. But we didn't find out until ten years later that this happened because nobody reveals this.

But also, he was late, That's what I'm saying. He had a chance to actually do something in the jury room that would have actually been meaningful as opposed to doing as opposed to doing what was convenient.

Well, no, listen to this. The first vote was a ninety three not guilty. Wow. He says that the sheriff deputy knocked on the door and says, hey, you guys got to come back with a verdict within thirty minutes or we're going to hold you or whatever. And he says a particular woman. He kept saying that he just got to find this guy guilty. I want to go home, And so everybody swayed her vote, and this is how they find the finding me guilty.

That's that's really crazy though, that the three were able to convince them.

Ninety three ninety three not guilty.

This was the first vote.

Yeah, without the lawyer calling any witnesses.

Or anything, right and anything. And what about the videotape of did you were you aware that there was a video.

Of course, of course I was aware that we had the videotape. The lawyer never used that trial, He never the jury never even knew another person confessed in his crime. They kept that a freakway from.

The Okay, I'm not even right, I can't.

Even jury never knew that La mor scut confessed. We had the videotape. The lawyer didn't use it. He didn't even put it before the jury. He didn't bring it to your attention at all.

Did you say to him at the time. Where's the video? Why?

Of course, was when the judge told me to sit.

Down, And what did he say to you, lawyer?

He said that we didn't need to present this stuff because they didn't have a case against us. I mean, he said they didn't have a strong enough case. So why we don't need to call in these witnesses? They didn't have a case here?

But what is that st doesn't explain the video? The videotape I watched it an.

That would have made all the difference in the world. If the jury would have knew that somebody else confessed that would I would have walked out of there.

But so did you sit there and say to him, look, just play the video.

I went there and I told him. I asked him, was he working with the prosecutor? You know? I was so angry and there was nothing I could do. I was powerless.

You couldn't get the.

Idea, couldn't The judge told me, no, this is all on the trial record. It's right there before my trial even start. Then he turns around and proves me right. You know, that's it that he was you know, up to no good. I knew something was wrong, you know, and he actually proved me right. He didn't call it any wits that didn't present the confession. Jury never knew LAMR. Scott confessed.

I mean, this is so crazy. On so many it's criminal.

It's criminal.

And then and then Lamar Scott goes out and kills somebody else and actually says again on the video listen, that guy never would have had to die it got in the first place. I mean, yeah, that's not too many cases like this where somebody, the actual killer comes clean so early. Sometimes years and years later, they have a religious awakening or a spiritual or whatever they do. They tell somebody, you know, just by acting.

Well, his reason, his reasoning was, is that the deceased had a weapon. Okay, the deceased shot a guy named Mario Jarmon the more ran to his defense, Okay, and this is what he told them that you know, I lost control of the gun, but it was self defense. I was running to my friend's defense, you know, like it's this, you know, this is this is the whole level of madness. But I've lived through it, you know, I've survived the madness. And here we are today, so and.

Yeah, and amen to that. So meanwhile, the jury goes out. How long did they deliberate?

I believe about nine or ten hours.

And then they come back in. Did you have any hope did you?

Well, yeah, I still had hope that I would be acquitted, of course, you know, and they read divertedt you know, I blanked out. Basically, the family, the whole court was there for me, and they started screaming. You know, it's just a sad scene.

Yeah. I heard you describe it and say that you felt like you were in space.

Yeah. Just at that point, my mind was just not even here on earth.

No, because basically, they gave you a life sentence a fro thirty nine years when you're twenty one years old, you know, I mean, they might as well give you a life sentence point. So okay, So then you go off and you're taking the prison and you're filing these appeals and everything else.

Everything's denied over and over. Keep fighting, know. I started working on my own case, did a lot of research, learned how to write, you know, how to put my facts together, which was very helpful to even the Georgetown students when they got on board. You know that I had already had all the facts laid out the exhibits to support the facts. So it was, you know, it was the process was easier.

For them, and you were in Attica, right.

Yeah, twenty four years, but the twenty seven years, twenty four years was spending Attica.

Can you describe that because Attica is of course a notorious prison where they had that one of the most devastating incidents of riot with dozens and dozens people killed, and that goes back to the seventies, I think.

Yeah, but seventy one.

Can you describe for the audience what that was like?

Well, when you know, when I got there, the treatment was horrible. Stay that way, you know, and they never did fire even after the riots. They never did change the mentality or the attitude of the officers. And to this day, I spoke to some guys yesterday that's in there. They called me on the phone. You know. Every day it's harassment, you know, it's mistreatment going on there every day, and nobody would do anything about it. They're not held accountable, you know, And so I feel for them.

And were you subjected to that same treatment.

I had some problems, you know, but I carried myself a certain way where because I knew my situation that I had to be really really smart. I was there, but I wasn't there.

Put it that way, and that leads to a really interesting and fascinating part of your story, which is that you found some sort of escape from this artwork to art right, and and it's it's quite remarkable because we'll tell the story. I mean, you began drawing.

I started drawing when I was about three years old. Okay. I went to perform in arts high school for drawing, and when I was arrested, I didn't draw for seven years straight. I didn't touch a pencil or a paintbrush or anything. I didn't have. My spirit was it was dead, you know. I didn't have to drive or any of that stuff. You know. Around the seventh year of being in prison, I have an uncle who named Ronnie Bryant.

The whole thing is so remarkable. I mean then it's interesting too, because you're drawing three dimensional yeah, pictures of courses that you were seeing in two dimensions right, right, right, I mean because you could only see it in the magazine, right, So you're taking life, a photograph of the real life, and turning it back into a picture. It's like, it's a very interesting process.

Let me say to Jason, after a while, I didn't even need to pick. I can just make up a course on my own. I didn't need the pictures anymore.

And and we know now that it's it's sort of incredible that you're heading out to the West Coast with.

Tomorrow tomorrow the Pebble Beach, go to beach.

No, no, no, that's really now that I'm talking about life imitating art. That's life imitating art, for sure.

It is.

But but so back to the story. So because this that we'll get to the ending part at the end, which is just an incredible, incredible story to be able to tell. But so now about six years ago, golf Diye just runs the story. But the next well, the really, the the real, the real turning point or tipping point in your whole situation came with a group of students

Well, Marty worked at a firm as a peer illegal when he got out. I'm not going to say the name of the firm, but at some point he left the firm and he had remembered me because he had read a lot of my files.

So you were in prison with Marty.

No, oh, no, Marty was. When Marty got out, he worked as a peer legal at a firm in New York City who had took my case. They took my case. Yeah, they took my case, but they didn't follow anything. They pretty much sat on the case when they took it. And after Marty left that firm, he always, you know, just kept me in the back of his head because he had read my file. And even though the lures at that firm hadn't moved to foul anything, Marty remembered me.

Right when I was there, they were talking about you, for sure, and it was I mean, I got the sense talking to those kids like there's something special going on here. These kids are so smart, right, so driven. I hope that every college has a class like that, because well, I mean, look, at the difference that they made You're here. Yeah, so Marty brought it to the kids. And then when did you find out that they were actually going to create this documentary footage and do this

Marty called my mother. Okay, he got her number and called her up and he gave her the news. You know, when I called home, she told me about it. And we had just filed for before that and was denied the clemency. So I was really down in a couple weeks later, and this is when Marty out of nowhere just called my mom up and said, hey, you know, we've chosen his case, you know, as a class project, and we're going to do a documentary. So that was like news that I needed to hear, you know, it was.

Wow, So you knew you had a feeling, Yeah.

Because let me just say this, I've had nine different lawyers over the twenty year twenty seven year span, nine different lawyers. None of them could even get me a hearing with all of this evidence that wasn't presented before the jury. None of them could even give me a hearing. So when Georgetown got involved, you know, it was like this is different here. You know, this is different than just hiring a lawyer. You have a whole university that's

And so the kids went and really reinvestigated, right, and they found because the difficulty with your case was when I'm sure people listening to go, wait a minute. But the guy confessed to confess over and over confess.

He confessed seven times.

Seven times.

We have seven different confessions because he wanted to do the right thing so bad, and you know, he was actually an attica at one time. Did you ever see anyone put us in the same yard. We were in the same yard. Can you imagine that? No, yeah, the same yard. You know, I don't know if it was by design, but it was that was crazy within hisself, you know, but it worked itself out.

Did you ever speak to him?

Oh?

Yeah, Well, he well, he approached me and I didn't want to talk to him at all. I told him to get away from me, you know, and I kind of, you know, God sawted my heart up. I don't know, maybe a couple months later, I'm always seeing this guy walk the yard, you know, I said, you know what, you know, he tried to do the right thing, but the police didn't want to hear it. So it's really not his fault when you look at it. And so we became pretty cordial, interesting.

Hard, right.

You know, I'm not I'm the type of person that you know, I'm very forgiving and I don't harbor stuff. I've never been able, you know to I've never been the type of person that harbor stuff, you know, bitter, angrier, you know, I forgive real fast, you know. But that's just who I am.

So the Georgetown kids get involved, and the difficulty was, among other things, is that they couldn't use the confession because it wasn't new evidence, right, so they had to find new evidence in order to get your case reopened. But they did, yes talk about that.

Well, the new evidence came in, well, when they took my car and my clothing, they tested it. But they never revealed the results of the testing of the clothing. So when Georgetown was asking the DA, like, you know what about the testing of his clothing, the DA says, oh, yeah, everything was tested and they came back negative. Oh okay, we got a problem now because that sentencing or a trial, you never revealed that this happened. You never presented any

Video and I was like, oh my god, these kids have really done it now. Yeah, right, these are kids, I mean, yeah, I can't emphasize that enough. But they're great kids. I mean, obviously they're smart kids. They're going to Georgetown. You know, there's one thing all Georgetown students have in common. They must have some serious mental faculties or they would be getting in there in the first place. But these kids are really driven, and I can't even

Right, That's exactly what it was. And so you know, I was in contact with them constantly, you know, I would speak to them on the phone maybe a couple times a week. So when they revealed it to me, you know, I knew that that was the door opener. I said, this is it right here, because it opened the door for all the evidence that they previously disregarded. Now you have to look at this evidence. It's and it's the totality right because of this. Yeah, that one violation to Brady violation.

That's and then yeah, and there's no there's no equivocating. That's all right, I mean that was that was a quo.

Not only that, you know, the DA claimed and not know about all of these witnesses, yet seven of them were on his this witness list before trial. You know, he says, like, what witnesses you're talking about? Well, those seven witnesses are on your witness list that cleared me this crime. They claimed not to know about any witnesses that cleared me.

So you find out that the kids had gotten this right. It like smoke called the smoking gun. Bad play on words here, but whatever. But then and then and then how did things start? They must have started to move pretty quickly from now.

Oh yeah, within a matter of months, you know, the motion was fouled. Uh that D eight said that they wouldn't contestant, you know, But even then, I, you know, I was like, I wasn't one hundred percent sure that they want to stick to their word. They said to follow the motion, we're not contestant. I still didn't trust the process, you know. And I didn't trust the process all the way up into the day that I got out, when I was walking into the courtroom, I didn't trust

So let's talk about that, because let's go to We talked about the worst moment, but there were a lot of them, but the worst moment when you were actually convicted. So let's talk about the moment when this all finally came to an end.

I had a lot of time to think that day because the prison guards would not release me. When the judge ordered me release, the prison guard said no, they wanted to take me back to the prison to be processed out. The judge says, no, he's going to be released from the courthouse, So it was a tug of wars there, and they had to get a fact from Aubury stating that it's okay to release him, and that took two hours. So I'm sitting in the room the

But I made it down there, But you left out what I really wanted to hear, which is that moment when the judge declared you, oh yeah, I mean, can you paint that picture? I know you can paint some pictures.

Well, let me just say this. I always had faith, and I always had to hope that that day would come.

You know.

This is what kept me going is that I didn't know. I didn't know when, but I knew it was going to happen. I just didn't know when because I was never gonna give up. I was on the fight until my last breath. So when she declared that, it's like I had already lived it before. It's hard to I don't know if that makes any sense. It was like I had already lived it before in my mind, you know. And that's that's what kept me going in prison, is that ninety percent of the time I was never there.

You know.

I would take myself to France, you know, or I'll go fishing, or I would cook a dinner or something like that. I was never really there in the prison, only maybe ten percent of the time when I had to be when there was something going on and I needed to know what was going on around me Other than that my mind. Whenever I would draw for those ten hours, I would put my headphones on, turn the music on, and I'm gone and just draw.

But even still, what was the that that you're in the courtroom? I mean, this is the r This is actually the opposite of what happened before, right when everybody was screaming and crying and everything else, and you were in space and blah blah blah. Right, so now you're back right in the courtroom and the judge says.

You know what, I'm gonna be honest with you. I was. I was in space then again a different type of space.

Though, and I'm assuming pandemonium it did?

It did?

I mean, it's interesting because I've seen the video and anyone who wants to can go online and just google your game.

But let me just say this also, Jason, you know, it was a happy day for me and the family and everything, but at the same time, I know I was leaving behind so many people that's gonna need my help. You know, that's gonna need my voice because they don't have the avenue, you know, or anybody to advocate for them.

So it's a little bit bittersweet.

Yeah, you know, because I knew that, you know. Okay, now here's a new chapter that's going to begin, you know, and it's not a you know, it's it's really not about me now, it's about trying to save other people, you know, from being wrongfully convicted or or receiving these hardt interesting laws you know that's in New York State.

Yeah, I mean when we talked about that earlier, the fact that we are so out of step with the rest of the Western world in terms of the way we sentenced people, in terms of way we punish people. I mean, a great group including my friend Dan Slepion, just just toured the prisons in Norway and Germany. They have a total of eight solitary confinement so right in the whole country Germany, and they don't even use them.

Right right, we have.

I think it's eighty to one hundred thousand people in solitary solitary confinement. They have eight for the whole time.

I know, guys that spent nine years in solitary confinement.

Talk to me a little bit about family, because your daughter's here, an amazing, beautiful woman that she is. I've seen videos with some of your family members, your mom, right, How important was family to you during this whole situation.

And what does it mean to family is everything? You know, without your support, I wouldn't be sitting here right now. You know, we kept each other strong. You know, Whenever they were down, I lifted them up. Whenever I was down, they lifted me up.

You know.

Now it's you know, you know, even getting out. You know, my grandmother, I've spent the last two weeks, you know, trying to get her house right. Her basement had flooded and stuff molded and everything. So me and a buddy mine's ripped out all the walls and resealed the basement up and you know, just fixed her. She's ninety years old, you know, you know, I got a new couch set and kitchen set and stuff like that, and painted all the outside of the house and all this stuff.

You know.

So she was my tire priority.

You know.

Now it's gonna be my mom and then my my kids.

My grandkids have five generations. Yeah, yeah, you know, and it's a lot of Dixons for me.

It's you know, it's not you know, when something like this happens, you realize how precious life is, you know, and that tomorrow's not promised. So you have to live every moment as if it's your last, you know. And even when you don't have money to travel, it's little things that you can do, like making breakfast, you know, and watch a movie, take a walk in the park, things that don't cost any money, you know. And I

And you have three girls, I have four girls.

Wow, Yeah, I have four girls and names Jackie, Uh, Tina, Arianna, and Tierra. But Tina's been the main focus here because she was doing a lot of advocacy work for me online and through her college. You know, she's a school teacher, graduated from Outer Beean College in Columbus, Ohio, and so she's been out there pushing things, you know, you know,

Yeah, I mean, I've seen videos of her advocating for you so powerfully, and such a beautiful speaker she is, and just a really amazing soul from what I can tell you.

Yeah, no doubt. She's just like she's so humble and soft spoken, and she loves her kids. She knows all her names. You know, she spent special time with the kids. I mean, she's like one of the greatest teachers on the planet.

Mm hm. Like I said, how proud you are of out of her too, I mean for your kids to have to because of course, when when we talk about this a lot, when someone like yourself is wrongfully convicted, it's not just.

You, right, they suffered.

Yeah, they grew up without their dad, and they could have easily gotten on the wrong track and ended up behind bars too. But they managed to persevere somehow, and they managed to all of them, right, not persevere, but succeed.

Yeah. That's a miracle, right, that is a miracle. You know, but every chance I could, every chance I had, I wrote them. We talked on the phone, you know, and I know that what I what I've observed is that you know, you have parents that's out there that a lot of times they don't take the opportunity to spend time to speak to the kids about the world and

A lot more power to you, I mean, I think it's it's a great tribute to you, the fact that they have turned out to them too. I mean, I'm not taking an incredible from them, but I think that we cannot downplay the role that you played in your own your own freedom, in getting freedom for yourself. And then also the family side is just it's a beautiful story. I mean, it's a tragic story, but it's a beautiful story.

Well, we have to, you know, make prison reform a serious topic to be discussed, you know, and we have to inform the public. Most people that don't have anybody in prison don't know what's going on in regards to the unfairness and how the judicial system operates.

You know that.

If you're poor, you know, most of the time, you're not going to receive a fair trial, because this is if it's not designed or equip to give you a

You know.

Sentencing laws is the worst We have some of the worst centence laws in the in the world, in the country, especially in New York State, you know, and there's bills on the table that should be passed, we should you know, positives. You know, the politicians no longer overlook these, uh, these bills that's on the table or the problems that's concerning you know, minorities, you know. And I hate to make it a race issue, you know, you know, I hate to make it a race issue. But just imagine this.

And on that note, I just want to say that I've been working with Families Against Mandatory Minimums for twenty five years. Right, it's a wonderful organization. I hope people will take your words and go and get involved. You can go to f A m M. That's f like Frank a Mmmandatory Minimums dot org or learn more about

And let me just say that Jason Wimer thing right where I come from. I come from the worst part of my city, Buffalo, New York, Okay. Whereas it's an economic collapse. There's no jobs, there's poverty, there's drugs, there's legal weapons, you know, and these kids don't feel like they have options. And at the end of the day, what do you think is going to happen in these type environments. You know, most of these kids are either going to go to jail or they're gonna get killed.

Yeah, it sounds like you need to be running for office, is what you need to be doing, because you have a lot of h I mean, you have a lot of knowledge, a lot of wisdom, and you obviously have a great heart and a strong desire to reform the system and help other people in the situation you're in.

Oh, can I just say one more thing?

Yeah?

Okay, how can I put this without offending anybody? You know, people always ask me about black lives matter? Okay, And my message to a black lives matter would be is to not isolate anyone, to not push anyone away, to bring everybody on board. Okay. And Martin Luther King was the best that ever did it without without cauedations or white or non blacks, Civil Rights nineteen sixty four Civil Rights Act wouldn't have been passed, you know, without non Whites.

We've been Uh what can I even say? All I can say is, Valentino, thank you again for being here. You've been listening to Wrongful Conviction with our very very special guest Valentino Dixon today and thank you for thank you for listening. Tune in again next week. Don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you get your podcasts,