#082 Jason Flom with Dusty Turner - RE-RELEASE

we go to court, the truth will come out. The prosecution from day one knew I was innocent and let forced testimony go uncorrected from the lower courts all the way up to United States Supreme Court. You have someone with a badge with ultimate and really, in that moment, unchecked authority. Don't presume that people are guilty when you see him on TV, because it may just be a dirty d A that is trying to rise upward. This

is wrongful conviction. Hello, this is a prepaid call from I'm innovated to Virginia Department of Corrections, Green Steel Correctional and Work Center to accept this call. This call is from a correction facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. Welcome back to ronfal Conviction with Jason Flam Today. I'm interviewing someone who I have a great deal of respect

and admiration for, Dusty Turner. On June ninety, one year old PREMN student went missing while vacationing with family friends at Virginia Beach. Twenty one year old Jennifer Evans abducted and murdered while vacationing in Virginia Beach that Sunday night, Jennifer Evans left the now defunct Biou nightclub with former Navy Seal trainee Dustin Turner. Police say the two got in the car with another Seal trainee, Billy Joe Brown. Police found her body nine days later in this wooded

area of Newport News. She had been strangled. Both men blamed each other in court. Turner was sentenced to eighty two years and Brown to seventy two years. Both sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in prison, but the appeals continued through this year. When Brown told police he was solely responsible for Jennifer's death, the confession gave Dustin Turner one last chance to walk free. The Virginia Supreme Court ruled unanimously Friday against Dusty Turner's petition for exoneration.

That really means Turner in another Seal trainee, Billy Joe Brown, will spend the rest of their lives in prison for the murder of Jennifer Evan. Dusty, welcome to the show. The reason you're hearing him sound sort of like he's on another planet is because he is. He's in prison in Virginia where he's been locked up for twenty two years for a crime he had nothing to do with.

It's a complicated case and a very tragic situation because Dusty had just completed the training to be a Navy Seal when he was arrested for a murder that he didn't commit. And Dusty, let's go back to that. When did you sign up for the Navy? What made you want to serve your country? Well, my, uh, my family has been in the military, my father, my stepfather, and

my my brother. My older brother he was in the Navy before me, and I guess I just have always had that appeal for the military to my country, right, But you took it to another level going through that Navy Seal training. That is the most extreme thing you can do, right. Seals and Rangers are the most elite troops that we have, and so you decided to subject yourself to basically torture in order to really become a machine. Right, Yes,

I guess that's right. You know, initially when I first signed up to the military, the Navy, I wanted to be a diver. I was the scuba diving for fifteen years and befool I was under the with COVID DELAYE interry program and the before actually arrived at boot camp by sit mynd fights on becoming a still I don't know really what it is. It drove me so much, but I just wanted to be in the most uh elite the unit that I could be in order to

fight from my huntry. And ironically this all went horribly wrong. And there's a connection. There's a very strong connection to the training because of the fact that it was that faithful night when you were out with your training buddy when all of this tragedy began. Your training partner was Billy Brown, right, Yes, Billy Brown and I were paired together early on in buds training and throughout the entire

Shield training we were paired up. And actually the only reason we're paired up at the beginning is because we're the same height and as fate would have it. That's why we were paired up. Why does that matter, Well, the everyone is assigned to a boat crew in buds. Training in your boat crew is dependent upon height, and so we were in the same boat crew, were the same height. One of structures that you and you you're together now swim body And that was early in trade.

And the issue was Billy was a very volatile character. Right, There's questions that have been raised as to whether he should have ever been admitted into the Navy in the first place when he had a history of well, let's just say, erratic behavior that would be concerning you would think before allowing him in to serve in that capacity. Can you talk a little bit about that. Yeah, So I didn't know about his past until after the trial.

He did have a violent history, Apparently he had I thought that at least one email before he came to the military. He was discharged out of the Coast Guard before he came into the into the Navy, and he had a couple of other things on his record, which I mean, I was kind aware of the prior. You know, there's some people have said that when he wouldn't have gone through the process, get his security clearance, that they would have recognized this and then picked them out of

the service. I'm not so sure if that's the case or not, but he certainly had the final path. And it is surprising, you know, in hindsight, is very surprising that he was allowed not only the military, but to uh come through into the Special Forces and Dusty so going through the training with him, I mean, you guys are taught to protect each other at all costs, even if it means risking or putting your own life in danger. Is that right? Yes? It is during the training throughout

a good majority of it. If we were separated more than six ft, we would be punished for that. You know, I could trust him in the field so to speak to uh shoot over top of my back and my parachute to speak. Um. So there was a great deal of trust and a binding board for it to come with the training, right, you literally had to trust each other with your lives in a very very in a very real way. I'm bringing that up because it has a bearing on the events, the tragic events that happened

on June in Virginia Beach. And I don't think anybody who hasn't been in your shoes can judge how you acted on that particular night. It's a very unique case and a very unique set of circumstances. Let's talk about that. Because you guys went out to a bar that night. The evening started innocently enough, but Billy had a drinking problem from what I've read, and apparently he got pretty blitzed.

Is that right? Yeah, he had been drinking that day and it just continued end of the evening that we were at the club at nine, and he was so walk us through what happened, Dusty, because this is really the moment, right when your life was turned upside down. How did this unravel from the time you were in the club to when you ended up in the car and then ultimately what happened after that, well, you know, and started off as kind of a normal, normal evening.

I've been to that club a few times previous. I was relatively new to the area in Virtnua Beach, not only been there maybe maybe three weeks. And so initially three of us guys were going to go out to do the club at nine. One of the guys ended up going and I don't know, going off with this girl friend or something. So Billy and I went to the club. It was again it was kind of a normal here Billy is drunk. Again. I kind of separated myself at the club promium and uh, I had met

a very nice young lady named Jennifer Evans. We kind of hit it off. We're having a good time for sharing with each other. Felt it was what we were into. You know. She was at a college studs down in Georgia. And I generally didn't talk very open about my build experience, but with her, I did, and I opened up and I told her when I was doing there the beach. Now, mind you that I was in the club with a under age and I had a bag. I d that I got in there. You were twenty at the time, right,

That was yeah, I was twenty years old. Jennifer was twenty one. And so again we you know different, I we hit it off. We had to separate ourselves from from Billy. I had met her girlfriends, her two friends as she came there with We've been out on the dance floor and uh, you know again it's it's very very normal type of evil and the last thing I was imagine with something tragic happening that night, so it

put it in the night her girlfriend had left. Briefly they were going to go get some coffee, din everyone that they would be in the club. So we actually had an idea of trying to go down to the beach, picking our shoes off, and walking down on the beach.

But as the night progressed and her girlfriends were going to come pick her back up at two o'clock in the morning, which is the on this club clote, Jennifer and I realized we didn't know the time to go down to the beach and then make it back to meet her girlfriends, so we stayed in the club, and in fact, we went out into the lobby where it was more quiet, and we just sat out there and

had a conversation. Just previous to this, I had gotten ability to ride home with this ex girlfriend who happen to be in the club that night, Christian Posishop, and reluctantly she did agree to take him home. She was reluctant, hesitant because she knows the type of character that he is and she really didn't want to deal with him, especially because he was so drunk, which I understood, but you know, I was happy that she was willing to take come home. So I was confident that I wouldn't

even see him for the rest of the night. And I was with Dinnifer, and it was closing upon two o'clock in the morning. We were out in the lobby and uh we decided to go out into the parks and lots and wait for her girlfriend and sit in my car and listen to music. And so within about ten minutes, still too again, we went out to my car and we were there listen to music and looking for her girlfriends to show up at any minute. Instead, what we saw coming down to Whill was Billy Brown

and he was heading towards the part. You know, I certainly wasn't expecting him. Christian was supposed to stake him home. I knew he was drunk and belligerent, but when he was approaching the vehicle, I told Jennifer, I said, look, you know this is the guy I come here with. You know he's drunk. Just just don't pay no attention to something. I've seen him in the past, especially when we were in Puerto Rico. I've seen him to witnessed

him become kind of violent towards women. I didn't think that he would become violent towards dinner fer but I did assume he was at least going to be obnoxious and somewhat belligerent. So when he got into the car, wait, hold up there for a second, Dusky, what kind of car was it? So I had a small Geo Storm. So that's a small car, right, Yeah, it is very a car. And you're big guys, both of you guys are.

He was bigger than I. We were both six ft two and a half, I guess, and he outweighed me by maybe maybe he did peas point pund so he was I think he was about two hundred and thirty somewhere, and that's the third pounds. He approaches the pass your side of the car and he opens the door and he kind of pushes the Varsity forward with Jennifer is sitting, he pushes the seat forward a little roughly, and he gets in the car and the back seat right behind her.

Of course, his big frame compared with fit back, and this he did a very small carm. Those knees are against the back of the pert And as soon as he sits down, I turned to him and I said, Billy, what's what's going on? Was was Christian not taking you home? And he uh immediately goes into a tirade about oh screw me, that f that girl, or should you think you know blah blah, he's a nothing but a this

or that. This is the last thing you want to see, right, You're having a nice moment with a girl, you have a nice connection with her. The last thing you want to see, the last thing anybody would want to see is a drunk, belligerent, violent anybody you want don't want to see anybody at that point. You just want to be in your little bubble with her, listen to music. Everything's good. I mean, you never could have predicted how

bad it was going to get, but already it's bad. Yeah, So this is obviously, this is the crux of the situation Jennifer and having this time. We were not romantically involved at this time. Earlier I had given her on her when I thought that she was gonna leave with her girlfriends, and that's the only time we had any comfortable contact. Said, she's a very decent young lady. You know, she was a good girl with a great who was

going to college. It's a very nice young lady. And so we're having a great conversation and said, here comes this drunk buddy in mine own to the car. So he's now in the back seat and is acting as you would have probably predicted that he would have act because of what you know about his character and his

current state of mind. But then it gets much worse. Yeah. Yeah, So after asking him why Christians taken him home, and you know, he said what he said about her, and he turned his attention to Jennifer, and uh, he made some very rude comments, if I remember correctly, said something about asking her if she was a virgin something like that. It was certainly, uh, inappropriate, and I immediately said, look, Billie, why don't you get out and go find Christians that

she was taking home. And so he was not trying to hear that at all. He's like that that bitch. So again he kind of turns this pench to Jennifer in the mind you within two, three or four minutes before her girlfriends are coming to pick her up right there where we're at in the parking lot. They're supposed to ride there, and they supposed to be there and to this bot, and it has to be within a couple of minutes before two, And of course I didn't know at that point to what it transpired in the

blood between him and Kristen. That made him additionally belligerent. Who turns his finch back to center her and he uh said something about her hair. He reached it up with his right hand. I don't know if he touched her her shoulder or her hair. But at that point, Jennifer, at this throughout this time, this brief a couple of minutes, he had not said a word, did not open her

mouth to him or revived in him. And so when he touched her hair or her shoulder, she smacked his hand from behind, you know, swatted his hand, and that's when he snapped. So I wasn't looking directly at him when he snapped, but with all his might, he silently brushed his arms around her upper bought her neck area, and with so much force that the whole car literally say right, and I'm thinking about it, dust. He had his feet, as you said, his knees were up against

the seat. And here's a big, strong pound guy who's trained to kill with his with his hands, and he's got total leverage right because he's got the knees. I mean you know it would have been nothing for him to do this, considering all of those you know, I don't you know, I don't know about saying it would have been nothing. I really don't know. I know that

seemingly words coming for him. The strike that he did upon this innocent young woman was so violent that when I turned and started screaming at him, just let her go, and he's screaming me, just epan, drive and drive first, I started crying and trying to pull his arms off, over and streaming at him. This this entire great time. When this happened, Jennifer never once reached up to defend herself.

It was that quick that she was out, and so I immediately grabbed his arms and I'm screaming at him just let her go, to let them and he's screaming at me, just drive, just up and drive. Only after a couple of seconds at pulling in his arms didn't marks. So I reached under his fingers literally and pride his arms, using one hand on his elbow in the other under his fingertips and pride his arms up off of her. At this point, when I dig at his arms off her, he took back in the seat and she is out.

He did. Her head is built towards the passenger side window, her arms and other side she avoided herself. And I'm just complete shot and just utter confusion and disbelief. And I'm and he still he is yelling at me, just being dry and dry, dusty. I'm just thinking that. I'm just the physics of it. I mean, it would have been almost impossible for anyone, even a strong guy like yourself, to pull somebody off from the side when he's in the position like he was in, especially when it happened

as quickly as it did. I mean, you really had no chance to save this poor girl. And I mean obviously you did what you could, but she had no chance. And at this point, were you concerned that he was gonna try to kill you too? No, it certainly wasn't mine. They didn't go through my head at the time. My only thought, And I think that anyone sitting in my

seat would have had a same reaction. You know, one minute having a good time with a young lady, and the next minute, this guy, this violent predator, compleatly just alters history. I don't know, it's strain it. I mean, he is one act that he does. It's changes the lives of so many people, and he's drunk, and you know, I'd like to think that he really didn't know what

the heck is doing. He has his past, and he has asked of the violence swords Limou, but he's been increasingly becoming an alcoholic over the last several weeks a month in which is drinking every single time. This was a bad, bad bud, not to mention the fact that he was taking terribilely leading up to this as will. Obviously, he destroyed her and killed her, and he ruined the lives of everyone who cared about her, her family, etcetera.

He ruined your life, he ruined his own life. He ruined the lives of your families, right, your family, all military heroes and so yeah, in one short burst of violence that from what it sounds like, lasted only seconds, not even minutes, he managed to destroy so many people. And then that's where the story gets into a whole different phase. Right and again, I'm I can't walk in

your shoes. No one can walk in your shoes with all the factors that were going on, Dusty, with the fact that you had been now trained practically indoctrinated into this idea that you must protect this guy and he's going to protect you. You know, that's just in the mix. I just want to put that in there. But besides that, you're in a state I can imagine of complete shock

and panic. And who could imagine this terrible turn of events, as you said, And what a dramatic turn when it goes from what sounds like a beautiful night, a nice connection two this absolute horror that you're you've just witnessed as close and personal as you can imagine with somebody that you were supposed to trust and protect and someone else that you would have liked to protect but you couldn't. He's screaming at you to drive. What what happened? Yeah?

And this is like, this is why you're in because of what you've done afterwards. And if people can't understand your reactions afterwards, the normal person would have jumped out of the vehicle and ran to find the phone or the police somewhere or tails body. Something just terrible hasn't happened.

And that might be the case for most people. I don't know, but I think that's the way I reacted because it would have been different even if my own brother would have been in Billy Brown's place, I think I would have reacted differently, because, like I said, to the way I was conditions and indoctrinated at twenty years old, I reacted how I reacted. I'm not a criminal. I've never been violent. I certainly have never been violent towards women,

and I'm not criminally minded. And so why is is that a twenty year old trust in this position which I should never have been in to begin with, and it had to make these kinds of decisions. And so when I realized that the first did and build my own screaming them and I really didn't know what I'm in a place in this area, Like I said, I hadn't have been and the beach for a couple of weeks and weeks fun. So I just put the car in the drive and I took off drive, and I

didn't know where I was going. I didn't even know how to barely get out of the Virginia Beach area until I ended up. In fact, Bill Brown, when I started driving, he said, I turn left here, turn right there, And I ended up on sixty four, and I'm sixty four. I'm familiar with that highway, and so I just started traveling west on sixty four and I didn't know where I was going, and I just kept driving and driving until I started seeing a lot of wooded areas, and

so I pulled off on an excess. Again, I have no idea where I'm at, and I'm just driving. I pulled off into another area which seemed more wooded, until I get to a more secluded area, which is not that far from here state, and both of us, myself completely get up the car. I grabbed for wrist, he grabbed her legs, and we carried her perhaps thirty art into the woods. And again I was incomplete chaotic shock, and and I didn't know what I was doing. I

didn't know what else to do. And yeah, I understand that people they will look at that moment there and say, you know that, why would you do that? Why you know I would have done that? But others have popped in in my shoes. They don't understand, and perhaps I don't even understand why I reacted that would other than to say that this is kind of how I was trying to react. They didn't say in a situation which you know there's been a crime and it's a civilian

who has been hurt, protect your swimboddy. Of course they didn't say that. However, now I want to understand when you go through still training today, they do have classes and training that says, look, if this type of scenario happens, you need to consider what you know, where you're at, what you're doing, and so forth, and do not protect your own body if he has done something so harnted the wrong. And that's the place today because of because of this, But Dusty, I want to bring up an

important point. What is important from a legal perspective to remember is that in Virginia, hiding a body after a murder is a misdemeanor punishable by up to twelve months in jail. And that's not what you got convicted of. That's not what they wanted you for. And we're going to get to that in a minute. But that's a very important thing to remember. In certain states that's not the case. There's some states where it's treated very differently. In some states it's treated the same as murder, just

you know, hiding the body after the fact. But that's the only thing that you were guilty of, and that's one of the reasons why I've dived into your case and why I'm doing everything I can to help you try to find justice, because it's obviously a terrible miscarriage of justice, the fact that you're serving time for murder when what you did was wrong, but it's not murder. So now going forward, you go back to the base, and this is big news, right the town is up

in arms. Everyone's wondering what happened to this girl? And this must have been driving you crazy, right, Well, I wasn't really aware at the time of the news and the media. But what was driving me crazy. It's just having witnessed this and and and knowing about it and

attempting to remain silent about it. It was, Uh. It put me in a state of almost like a zombie like state throughout the next week in which I held this specret and witness really do this terrible, terrible deed, and I had it within and and I couldn't tell anybody, and so it was it was definitely eating me up on the inside. The coming week we were up nor something uh from place called ape you doing addital training.

But then I wasn't During the time, I wasn't aware of the news and the media down that pretenue to beach, but it was certainly eating you up on the inside. So your conscience got the best of you, and you know, you did the right thing after having done the wrong thing and went to the authorities, right, And that's where things get really dicey from everything I've read, where they didn't behave in a straightforward manner when it comes to how they treated you. Right. Well, first of all, you know,

I did it still be defective? You know everything that they asked me. You know, at first I did not den everything, but it came to a point, especially after they had presented me with the fact that Jennifer's family is in absolute going to a traumatic breathing experience and they just want to know appen and want to know

where their daughter is. And it was through this line, I think for our questioning that I asked to see my very officer, and my spirit off came in and we were alone, and I told him everything that happened, and so he said that he was gonna attempt to call the dad officer and to see what we could

do as far as legally or something like that. But nonetheless, fifteen minutes later, when the Texas come in, I told him everything that they had asked, and they even asked me if I would help them first draw a map to where Gennifer's body was, which I did, I tempted to do, and then asked me if I would accompany him the help find Centifer Society, so which I did also, and I'm still my spirity officer and one of the detectives. We went to the location and we separated to search

through the wood. Finally I did find her body. At that point I went back to the base. They had presented Billy Brown with the map that I had drawn. He said, look, your buddy completely just rolled on you. He told us everything you're going al You're probably gonna get the definitety whatever else. And so at that point that he began with the stories about now I had something to do with it. He later said that he was going down he didn't think me with and so

he made up a story saying that we're both home. Yeah. I mean, he was obviously furious because he believed that you, who was supposed to be his protector, had betrayed him.

He's gonna do what he can to bring you down with him because in his twisted way of thinking, you should have covered up this murder and protected him, and so you did what you thought was right, albeit after the fact and the consequences started to become very real now from what I've read, Dusty, the detectives made certain promises to you, right that if you help them, you were going to be kind of okay, right, yeah, they

think you know. They did say that. Lafter telling Muster officer what had happened, and he spoke to the Texas As will and take together. They said, look, just just answer the questions. It'll be all right. And I said, are you sure you know? And I kind of took it as a direct order from my spare offer. I said, are you sure that's what I should do them? And he said, yes, just answer the questions, be all right.

I said, okay. Now, they didn't come to me and say anything like, well, for your testimony, will allow some kind of agreement or something like that. No, they never actually came to me and said that. And of course, being very ignorant of the criminal justice, you know, I didn't know that I would even need a lawyer, or they that I should remain time about certain things or where have you, but you know I will only ask

them to search my vehicle. I mean, I answered the questions truthfully, and I thought that maybe what this would lead to was at some point me on a witness spand explaining as Billy Brown and being charged with her murder, that I would be explaining exactly how things happened. Maybe I was naive, but I assume, and that's a coming work.

I certainly didn't assume that they were going to charge me after speaking of Billy Brown and hid the point of the fingers much Still, I certainly didn't think orge And this is an important point, Dusty, right, because the police spent forty eight hours examining your car, right, So

they turned that thing upside down. And yet they never used any of the evidence from the car at trial because it wasn't gonna be favorable to them, And in fact, by not presenting the evidence at trial, they didn't have to turn over to the defense, when in fact, if they had, it would have been definitely in your favor. Because of the fact that everything you were saying makes true, that the physics of it just don't add up. Some

of the things that they said. It doesn't make sense to add insult to injury and in a in a terrible call it a coincidence. The year that you were convicted was the same year that Virginia abolished parole, which is shocking to my conscience in a nation where we believe in second chances and we believe in redemption and we believe in that stuff, the idea that if you were so misfortunate as to be convicted in Virginia later, you are not eligible for parole. I wouldn't even know

what parole meant. I wasn't aware, you know, today had just abolished prole Virginia. I don't think I would have would have paired. It's time. I wasn't so I gets concerned about the sentence I was given. I was concerned about the fact that I was convicted of two charges that I did not commit. Whether it gave it ten years or a hundred years, I was convicted of something I didn't commit. And that's that was the Travis. It's it's uh. I can't um I can't really imagine how

that could make sense in a society like ours. But but it is in fact a reality, and it's your reality, and it's why now everyone is working so hard to help you get clemency or a pardon or a conditional pardon from the governor because of the fact that that is the only recourse left. Another thing that's of sort of a unique and to me troubling concept is the idea that you only have really one appeal of actual

innocence in Virginia, right. And that's something I want to get to Dusty, because, first of all, a crazy thing happened in two thousand and two, right, which is that Billy he had some sort of an awakening and decided to come clean and tell the truth. We're talking two thousand and to fifteen years ago, right, and he recanted and admitted that he was the sole murderer. And I think people are listening now, I'm going, well, wait a minute, if that happened, why is Dusty still in prison? Can

you explain that scenario? Yeah, Vokan explaient. Yes, as he sing his time and some other prison I guess some guys had approached him and got them to get into Christianity, and this allowed him to finally relieve his burden that he's been holding for all these years and to confess.

And so that happened again in early two thousands, and here it is fifteen years later, and I'm still sitting here, still sitting here, after after he's come clean, after he finally said, yeah, everything that Dost just said, that's what happened, and the judge rule that he's credible in that confession. So there was no mechanisms and more recently of even

getting back into court with such new evidence. But there was a time later into thousand six seven, and so we finally rid of actual innocence to the appeals court, which ended with well, the appeals court initially overturned my conversation. They did convict me of the misdemeanor accessory after the fact to the pony, which indeed I am guilty though and like you said earlier, that was a maximum sentence of twelve months in jail. Well, they made this ruling

and they dropped my charges. There's a two thousand nine I'm expecting me home within a matter of days. For weeks. This is what makes me insane. And I think anybody listening is like, wait, wait, wait, So your conviction was vacated, right, and then that means to a layman who's not intimately familiar with the law or criminal proceedings. When you're convictions vacated, you have every reason to believe you're gonna go home. Right.

They've actually come out and said, Okay, we are now acknowledging there is no physical evidence connecting you to this. None of this stuff adds up, right, not to the murder. Like you said, you're guilty of the accessory after the fact, and now you have the actual killer confessing in court under oath. Sounds like a winner. Right, You're going home, except for then the state decided to put it's foot back on your neck, so to speak. Right, and then

what happened? Yeah, so the joint to vacated my my conviction, and I was expect to be home with the matter

of day. The acting Attorney General came forward and said that he wanted to feel this decision, and so they appealed it and it went back through the Pelot Court and then on into the later into the Supreme Court in Virginia and under a new theory that one of the judges of the pilot court created, and the spread of actual innscence is so demanding as they say that the evidence has to be just as substantial as DNA evidence,

which Unfortunately, there's no DNA evidence in my case. But so one of the judges says, well, although he didn't have anything to do with the murder, and this has been decided bout it, he didn't have anything to do with the murder, and he didn't restrain. This judge says, well, perhaps a jury could believe that when Dusty walked out of the bar to the parking lot to his call, that the a jury could believe that that was an

abduction by deception. And if the jury believed that, and then Jennifer was later killed darlissha Power who's killed her, the u which built the guilty the jury is still find me guilty about the abduction in the murder. So they created a new theory in my face. There's just not only the asinine, but it was never presented before a jury, and there's no jury in the world they would believe this idea, especially with all the additional evidence.

So under that because of that, and it's all the semantics of this word restraint, and that's what it comes down to. I'm still in prison because of the semantics of the word restraint. And it's unbelievable. So they overturned my release and then reinstated my completion. And here it is seven years later and I'm still sitting here PRIs I did not. So they're basically trying to say that they're going back in time to the going back into and trying to come up with a theory that could

actually read your mind. Right, they're going back in a time machine and reading your mind and saying, well, this may have been, could have been, would have been something that he might have been thinking of doing. There's no evidence to prove it. How could anybody? I don't know. It makes me nuts. It's such a bizarre It's such a bizarre thing for a court or a judge to say.

As far as I'm concerned, not think that the legislators recognized that after my case and I said, you know, this river excell inncence is obviously entirely to restricted and h to open for interpretation or whatever. And so they since I went through this river excellencence, now they've changed the law the wording of a river excellence. Instead of saying, could any jurorfying you with this? Now it's more specific, and it may sound supplicit, but it's more to this thing.

Would a rational juror still find deal with this new evidence and the new wording, which I can't go back into the river of actionist because it's the one shot deal, and so I'm left hung out to draw on this

on this whole time. Well, hopefully not for too long, because you have a lot of really great people on your side now, and you have a governor who cares about these issues and who has shown in actions that he believes in justice, that he believes in fairness, and that he has the courage to do something about these things. He does seem like convery fair man, and I do

have hope. I do think that he will look at my case, and I know and I'm very confident that if he does, if he just looks on my case, that he realize that I'm not supposed to be here, I do have that tremendous hope that he will take

action in my case. Well, Dusty, I can tell you that I think that there's a lot of reason to have have hope in this current administration that we have there because of the fact that you do have such a ground swell of support, and not only that, because of what you've done, the remarkable record of accomplishment that you've had on the inside, and I want to talk

about that. I know that you know you're finding hope in a hopeless place, but I want to paint a picture for the audience of just how grim it is to be in this situation you're in, and then also what you've managed to make out of that experience. Well, you know, I've got a quote from a guy who knows suffering, and a couple of things have kept me I don't move forward and and positive. I can be one of the supporters that I do have, not just my family, but other total strangers who have reached out.

And it gives me a lot of hope, and it gives me a lot of strength to endure. This is what I'm going through in this environment, and it is terrible, It's absolutely terrible. But this quote, one of my favorite quotes. It says that everything to be taken from a man, but one thing, the last of the human freedom, and that is to choose one's own attitude in any set

of circumstance, choose one's own way. A man named Victor frankl And you know, I've I guess I've taken on this this attitude you know that which allowed me to persevere through through bud training to still training. I reached for this almost on a daily basis. You know. I put my feet on the ground and I said, I have to I have to continue on today, and I have to push forward, and I can't allow this environment to get the best of and I want to transcend

in spite of where I'm at. And so I've looked to try to do things to try to help out not only the people around me in my environment for years, and I've helped guys who struggled with a drug addition or criminal thinking. And I've just kind of made it a part of my own character to trying to help you guys and to move past, transcend some of these things in which they've been stuck in. And not only that. Proposed a dog training program. That's the last institution that

I was in. It was luckily it was to prove and we had the dogs come in and for about three years I was able to be a dog trainer. And I had studied and read up and learned so much about training dogs and I really enjoyed them. And how does that training program work, Dusty? The dogs are they rescue dogs and what happens to them after they're trained, right,

So these are absolutely rescued dogs. These were abandoned. We worked with a shelter out of Ashley, Virginia called Bark the a r COM and that's the Abandoned Adoption and Rescued KANUS really great orderzation and they would bring us six dogs at time and we would have them for three months and we had my total was a twelve dog trainers too free stalls and we were trained the dogs, these dogs that were abandoned and you never know what

their history was. They could than maybe beef in or however that they were rescued and we were given the tools to help train these dolls and then afterwards they were adopted and we had an a stoption rate of some ninety something percent coming out of there. We trained them in basic and non obedience. It was a really really great, really positive program. And there had gotten into me and another guy. We have been talking about different

ideas concerning the judicial systems. When we come across this idea of restorative justice, and after we had studied on it and we've gotten in contact with some restorative justice practitioners, we decided that with our knowledge of this environment in the prison, and we knew what was lacking in this environment, we knew some of the things that could help in the rehabilitation of the solo invates. We constructed a restorative

justice program. We're still in the process of kind of fleshing out some of the more detailed aspects of the curriculum. But this is what my passion has been into for the past few years. I've really been concentrating my efforts into this program. And we have people and restore just practitioners from university another organizations really really like what we have created and they want to help out a little bit. Well, you know, that's you know what it sounds like to me.

It sounds like you're doing more good, like I said, from this hopeless place than most people on the outside can never even dream of doing. And that's you know, that's to your credit obviously, and it's another reason why it makes sense for you to be granted your freedom after all these years. And if you even allow your mind to go there, what do you want to do? What's your plan? Well, as you hit upon do I

even want to go there? I have been looking, especially after seven years ago when I was expecting to get out, and I always denied that that was a very crushing blow and it was difficult endurance. But yeah, of course I do allow myself to think about once amount of here, although I don't do well upon it because I just I don't know. I just I can't go there for

so much. But the more I've gotten into a restorative justice, the more I think it's an extremely a beneficial philosophy and instead of practices for to kind of compliment our criminal justice system. And so I really want to pursue that direction, and I think that I could, I could help out. I think I had a lot of cool our shield and knowledge from being in here for the last point two plus years in observing things from the inside. I feel like I have a great respective to be

able to help out in the resort justice. That sounds like a great scenario to me and benefits the society across the board. I don't know if you're able to talk about it, but they really struck me earlier when you told me that the prisoner or your pot is

on lockdown. What does that mean? Well, so, where I'm at now, we've been on lockdown for the last two weeks, which means we're confined to our concrete posts are so and when we're coming out every seven two hours to take a shout, they bring the food to our door. And I say our door because I have a film partner. Every show as two people for film, and this is how I've been living for the last two weeks. The moreover, it's pretty much how I've been living for the last

point two years. But when we're not on lockdown, you know, I do have a modicum of freedoms if you will, you know, every once while I can get outside, bake fresh air and work out. Um enrolled into a horticulture class and learn about horticulture and I can actually have my fingers in the soil and be able to have the opportunity to plant from the seeds and vegetables and so forth. It's really been a positive thing, really really

enjoining the horticulture. And the last question about the prison experience, what is an average day like when you're not on lockdown? You wake up at five or something, How does how

do you get through the day. Yeah, so they have what they call a count procedures in which they have to come through and literally count every individual while they're locked in the sill about four times or so every day, spread out throughout the day, and during that time you have to be standing up and your life have to be on so they can see that you're alive and you will and and that starts certain with the four

six o'clock in the morning. So for the last point two years I've been up um about that time and standing on my feet and the life the fluorescent lights every every morning. That's that's just one of the countenance. And like I said, that goes through up to day and that kind of segments the day that in the beating, the channel from beating schedule, so the preactast, lunch center and these kind of condition you in condition one too,

the segments of the day. And so there's a period in the morning after practice in which, if we're lucky even might get outside. The recreation and recreation consists of a yard as a track. I usually go jogging. If I'm able to, I'll go into the weightlifting area listening weight They have a couple other recreational things. The guys get around with the volleyball or the beast. Otherwise there's not a lot of I don't know kind of rehabilitative programs.

There are a few, you know, I've been through a lot of those things, but for most guys, I think that, you know, this place is more of a warehouse humans than anything. It's not really designed or as its all corrections necessarily, although there has been you know, steps towards that direction, as steps in that direction, you know, I think that the governor has made some steps in that

direction with three entries, ideas and so forth. But you know, unfortunately there's largely the prison are placed with the warehouse humans. So there's only so much a man do in this. So I do utilize my time studying, send my money on the books, and there was a library when I can, and so that's kind of how I send my time. Well, Dusty, all, I can tell you again, I know you know about it,

but I hope you can feel it. There's a real wave of support for you among so many people who care and who want to see you released and able to get on with your life and put this nightmare behind you. Of course, Lisa Speies has been a huge advocate. I think she's a very strong supporter and a very positive and wonderful person. And I want to turn it

over to you typically un wrongful conviction. I like to leave the last word open so that you can share any thoughts you have about anything at all with our audience. I'll turn it over to you, Dusty. Okay, Well, you mentioned where my supporters, Lisa, You've been certainly has been great, especially in what I under staying in the social media field, I guess and I do have a lot of very strong supporters out here in Virginias who are total strangers.

Some of them have gotten to know personally and they're just great people. And I'm very fortunate to have these people in my corner and who have recognized my wrongful p As far as the last words, thankful, I really appreciated Mr from for interviewing me. Very thankful that increasingly more people know than I have been wrongfully sick. And I hope that people, you know, maybe reach out and

talk to somebody. The filmmaker named j D has created a film called The Target of Opportunity about my case, and I was able to view it one time two years ago, and I think it encapsulates my situation put it pretty well, and I just hope that people will take some kind of interest and look into my case, and I know that if anybody does, they will see the travesty and the fact that I've been here for over twenty two years or something I didn't do. I had such a future brought in the military. I love

the military. I'm planning to make it career. Prap. I wanted to be in the Filkins and want to be a one best sil team operators for this country that I could have been. My world was turned upset down and a lots of so many people over one that by this guy. So many people have been destroyed and ruin and family on my family, like City, the Billy Brown family, so many others. But again, I just thank you.

I really appreciate opportunity to interview so Dusty. I want to repeat that the name of the film is the name of the film is Target of Opportunity. Target of Opportunity is the film. I've watched it. I hope other people that are listening now we'll watch it too. And Dusty, I'm sure people are listening. They want to know how can they get involved? What would you advise? Right? You know, Unfortunately I'm I am largely isolated. I have no Internet access.

I've never been on the Internet. I've never even used. However, I think that people could uh maybe visit. I know that totters have created a website, the free Dusty dot Org. And I do know too that there is a Twitter and Instagram account under my name of free dust the Turner. I think, and I know that's very least reaching out there. That's much supporters with. I'm sure direct folks into the

best way that they might be able to help. I know that writing to the governor donor Arry mccaulos in Virginia's directly they help out other Other than that, I'm really not sure what else to say about it. Okay, So once again, that's free Dusty Turner is the Instagram and the Twitter. The movie is target of Opportunity. Please learn more about this case and get involved. Follow Dusty on social media and there'll be more information there that

you can learn how to how to help. And now is the time to do it, because we're really in the home stretch of this this effort to free Dusty Turner. You have it, Dusty. All I can say is hanging there, We're coming to get you. Thank you, Dusty for for being on the show, and uh I'll look forward to to seeing you on the outside, hopefully sometime very soon. You've been listening to a very special episode of Wrongful Conviction Behind Bars with Dusty Turner. Dusty, thanks again, Thank you, sir,

Thank you for using GTL. Don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you get your podcasts, it really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wardis. The music in the show

is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one