#064 Jason Flom with Calvin Johnson

thing should do the right thing. And that's why, even though I was dealing with corrop people, I wasn't going to brave anyone to get me out of prison because I wouldn't live with the fact that I braved my way out of my wife's death. I'm not innocent to proven guilty. I'm guilty until I proved my innocence. And that's absolutely what happened to me. Our system. Since I've been out ten years, it's come a little ways, but it's still broken, a totally little trust in humanity after

what happened to me. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful Conviction with Jason Flom. Today, I have a very special guest, my friend and my colleague on the board of the Innocence Project for a long time, Calvin Johnson. Calvin, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. Calvin. You are an extraordinary I don't embarrass you, but you are an extraordinary person. Um. Your spirit uh really lights

up every room that you walk into. And I've seen you walk into a lot of rooms, so I know this. But your story is insane in many ways, but also typical in certain ways of wrongful convictions. And I want to get right into that and I'll explain what I mean as we go along. But this goes back to three man, but I want to go back even a little further than that, because you grew up in a very nice environment, good family. I mean, can you explain what your what your childhood was like. I really had

a really great childhood. Uh. I was brought up in a middle class setting. My father was a lawyer and my mother, she worked at a college as administrative assistant. My father later became a senator, the first black state senator in Hamilton County in Ohio. So I really well brought up in a very nice setting. I remember living in a nice home, having my own room, even had a game room with uh with slot car racing sets, train sets, and it was just a very, very very

nice environment. I also kind of say, when I look back at it, I felt kind of protected because I wasn't exposed to a lot of negative things. Are a lot of bad things in the world. So I can remember days like when the first time I saw where Martin Luther King got assassinated and I saw my mother crying in front of the TV. It had a profound effect on me because I like, with what's going on. I saw people riding riding and and people protesting, and it's kind of just opened up my eyes to a

lot of things. I said, Wow, look, look what's going on in the world. It's there's things out there that I hadn't even been aware of, and it really really started looking at the world a little bit different. None of this would have prepared you for what was about to happen, um in this on that faithful day in three when your life literally went from being I want to say a dream, but like your whole future was in front of you and everything was looking good. You're

a smart guy. You came from a great family, you had good upbringing, you had every opportunity to be successful in the world, and then all of a sudden, you get arrested and charged with a crime that you had no knowledge of, nothing to do with, and then ultimately

charged with another crime. I mean, this is a crazy story because there were two separate incidents, one of which was used against you in the trial for the other one, and then later on when the charges were dropped for that one, it was too late because you were I mean, it's it's really a nutty and terrifying scenario. What happened to you? And can you explain the circumstances of how this happened in the first place, and why did they focus on you? And how could they have gotten it

so wrong? Like you said, it is it is a little crazy, Jayson, It really is. Uh. I'mna just go back just a little bit further, uh, in my upbringing, because I remember when my family moved to Atlanta, Georgia, and we moved into this this really nice neighborhood where there are professional football players and doctors and lawyers and people in the political field. And I'm riding around, I'm many bikes and motorcycles. Was growing up and and just

living a great life. And it was it was considered the upper echelon of Atlanta for blacks at that time. And I went to college, and once I graduate from high school, I went to college with as you said, I went to college. I was at Clark College in Atlanta, Georgia and getting my education. Uh. And I graduated with a bachelorists Arts and mass Communications. And you would never imagine anything like this happening to me. But then I had a little bit of a wild streak. Like most kids,

I was adventurous. Uh. I didn't just always stay on the echelon side with the the good kids. I had the tendency to go over into the to to the lower neighborhoods. I wouldn't say, I don't like to say lower, but I would say economic that're not as successful as we were. And when I used to go over there, I just hang out with those guys. And I was doing a few things things that I shouldn't have had had no business door. I had to be honest about it.

I drinking, smoking marijuana, hav them from party and chasing the girls. And I just got involved into things that had no business being involved with. I knew people that will buy hot items, and I knew people that were committing crimes, and I got mixed up with some of the wrong people and I actually, UH did something I had no business doing. That started to the ball the rolling. I put myself in that position in the beginning. Uh uh did commit a burglary to UH. I'll tell you

what led up to that. I had brought some marijuana one day and at at time when I was buying the marijuana. Uh, the police actually pulled up and arrested me and charged me with the marijuana. UM been having that case. I went to see a lawyer, and the lawyer was pretty expensive and I didn't have the money. So my my friends on the other side of the tracks set wait, man, we can get you some money. Just go ahead and UH, if you bring us a few hot items and we will take care of it

and you can you can get you a lawyer. So I went across the What I did was I committed a burglary and got caught, and that's what really started everything. I was pleaded guilty to that because I was guilty, you know, I I set responsibility for anything that I've done. But if there's something that you say that I did that I didn't do, then we got a battle on our hands. So that's that's what put you in the

crosshairs of the the authorities. Right. So when this, you know, when they had this, uh, this terrible incident where this woman had her house broken into. It was in College Park, I think, right, Georgia, and um, a woman's house was broken into and she was tied up with a belt or strangled with a belt and the I mean, it's a terrible, terrible crime, and she was raped, um and robbed and the whole thing. And then how did it

end up where they came to arrest you? What made them suspect that you were the guy that did this? Ultimately was proven that you didn't. But how did that? I mean, can you explain that whole scenario, because that's where this thing goes really off the tracks. Okay, I'm explaining it as best I can. At the time, when I got arrested for the burglary, that's basically all that

I was guilty of. Uh. They have some other crimes that have happened, uh rape or to that happened in the area of the burglary, and so they decided that they were going to clear the record books and charge me with those those rapes. And this was back in nineteen eighty one, and we were gett ready to go to trial and everything. And the only thing that really cleared my name was that the lady that was assaulted and rape in this particular case, she was honest and

I really appreciate her honesty. She said that I'm positive that the person that raped me was an uncircumcised individual, and I have been circumcised since birth because I was born in Cincinnatial how Uh in the Jewish hospital and was circumcised since birth. And so once that was brought out,

they dropped the charges UH on the rape. And basically I just went to prison for for burglary and I did about a year, maybe a year and a half, got back out, started my life over, UH, trying to do the positive things and working out every day, going to work every day. I was living in my parents house at the time, and shortly one day I was coming home. I never forget that day. It was a beautiful, beautiful day that day, it was a spring day, and I was coming home and I felt a strange feeling.

Something just wasn't right. And as I walked into the house, No sooner than I walked into the house, there was that knock on the door, like doo doom, doom. I tell people that was the weight of the state. They busting the door. They put handcuffs on me, extremely tight, so tight that still got bruises on my risk all these years later, and they dragged me out and they

charged me with these rapes. And it was the same police officers that had arrested me earlier, and so now they're charging me with some more rapes, saying that you got to be guilty, and we feel you're guilty of this. But I, you know, I was innocent, had no connection with the uh, the victim or anything. And I remember being in that code damp, dark cell and just waiting to be uh, to be clear anything. I thought, Okay,

this is America. You know. I brought up America believing in the judicial system and injustice and justice for all, and once that happened, I just I just never ever, I never believe that I would go to prison. I said anything, They're gonna walk in here and say, hey, you're not guilty, You're free. And this is basically how it had all started. Those same police officers that have previously arrested a couple of years earlier arrested me again in three and decided that, okay, now we're gonna make

sure that we we got this guy this time. But

they had the wrong guy. I'm getting the very strong visual of you and knowing you as I do, and every time I see you wearing a suit and a big smile and everything else, and now I'm picturing quite the opposite, right, I'm picturing you in this, as you said, the cold, dark, damp cell, and still thinking that the justice system is going to be just, and that because you didn't do and had no knowledge and we weren't involved in any way in any of these in these

particular crimes, that you were going to be freed probably relatively shortly. And this, but this proceeded to trial um in in actually a shorter time than many of the cases that we see here. It was about six months right until you ended up actually on trial for your life,

literally for your life, that's true, Jason, Uh. I mean they put me into a live line up before I went to trial, and in that live lineup they actually were trying to select the person that committed the crime and the individual Joe who I actually went to prison

for wolf of life sentence. The individual that actually went to prison for picked out another person did not did not pick out Calvin C. Johnson Jr. And all this were brought out in a preliminary hearing where they were trying to decide whether or not if they were going to indict this case and carry it on over to have trial. I remember during the preliminary hearing when they were brought out that hey, that this individual picked out

somebody else. I'm sitting there thinking like wow, you know, uh am, I gonna go home now and they're gonna go ahead and just drop the case. And then there was some other facts brought out because they asked this individual about her identification procedures how he was identified, and apparently they said that I was supposed to be identified through a photographic from a photographic lineup in the beginning, and in question in this individual, they said, well what

kind of uh photographs? Were they? Color? Were they black and white? And she was kind of shake like, you know, she wasn't sure, and she actually said, well, I think they were color. They were colored pictures. So later on we brought a police officer in who had been said questioned, so he didn't hear what she said. And when he came in, we asked him, do you have the pictures

with you today that Calvin Johnson was identified from? And he said, yes, I do, and he showed them to us and there were a serious of small black and white pictures. And I'm sitting there in the courtroom, you know, my eyes are wide, my head is shaken back and forth because I'm in disbelief, and I'm saying, well, cat to just see that something that's not right here. And I kept believing that I would actually uh at that moment, and they meant a minute, you would say okay, you're

free to go. I remember sit going back to my cell and sitting in that selling, you know, just wondering what's going on, what's going on? And so one day they dragged me out that cell, Jason. They just took me and then Jack dragged me out. They handcuffed me all around my waisting around my ankles and took me to a local hospital and sent me in the room with the door wide open, and then it made me stripped down and they just they didn't close the door.

Was inhumane, and they started plucking hairs from my body and taking blood samples and for comparison purpose to uh, to see if anything matched up with the individual that committed the crime. And as they did all this, Jason, I remember when they came back and they said, well I got I got good news and I got bad news. I said, well, what's the good news and what's the bad news. What the good news is that the hair

sapples came back and they matched uh. They they belonged to a person of African American ancestry, but the hair sapple did not match you. I said what, I said, Well, hey, am I going home now? They said, well, no, that's the bad news. You know, the blood sapple came back and it was a positive. They didn't have DNA technology they weren't using it in the courts at that time. And said, oh positive, Well, most of America America is a positive, but Jordy and the population is a positive.

And because I'm a positive, the person that committed crown with a positive. They decided, okay, we're gonna go forth with the trial because he must have committed the crime. I mean, it was really really crazy. I mean even the jury selection was crazy. They it was in the county that were predominantly white, Clayton County, Georgia, and they had three or four blacks which they systematically struck from the jury, and I ended up with for all white jury.

The victim was white. And as we proceeded to to the trial portion, I'm sitting there facing the all white jury with a victim that's white. That's crime, importing the finger and saying, this black man raped her. What chance they would I have? Jason, I mean, what chance in a situation like that, you have no chance for soever. And that's why I emphasized the fact of the fact that, you know, a jury needs to be culturally diverse, different

ethnic backgrounds, otherwise you don't stand much of a chance. Basically, I was railroaded, and through the course of the trial a lot, a lot of evidence was brought out in my behalf at alibi testimony. I was at home living with my parents. We had a dog because you know, my dad, I didn't even have a car at the time, and my dad, you know, was taking would take me to work in the morning time every day. And all this was brought out you know that you know that

was at home my parents. My player came, he testified at the trial, and he even showed my employee I D picture of me having a full beer, said, Calvin Johnson has a full beer that had a full bear at that time, and they didn't. They didn't, So I just want the victim had told the authorities that the assailant was clean shaving. Is that right? Well, she said that he had I think if I remember quickly that

she said that he had a mustache. Uh. And she didn't even describe anything about any facial here until later on what she actually said that it may have been some stomach so, but she never mentioned anything about yea. So so so here you are, I mean, and what's you know, what's common common factors that we see in your case are I witness been's identification and invalidated or

improper forensic science. And in this case it was flawed sorology, right because, as you were saying, the idea that the lab analysts testified at trial that thirty six percent of the male population could be excluded as potential contributors to the semen was absolutely wrong because in this case, the victim and the and the perpetrator shared um shared common traits, which actually meant for reasons that are that are complex

in science. But basically, the victim's blood group markers could have been masking the perpetrators and under such circumstances, the failure I'm reading this part, the failure to inform the jury that of the male population could have been included and that none could be excluded, was highly misleading. Even still though all you're doing, even if she was right, which she wasn't, you would say that you can only

eliminate the population. That's not enough to convict somebody instead of the prison for the rest of their life when you have all of this exculpatory evidence that was brought forward. But the fact is you were in a in a impossible situation, as you described, and you had virtually no chance. So what was that moment, if you could describe the courtroom at that moment, was when? When? When that the most terrible moment of your life when the jury came

back and and rendered you guilty. It was sad. The reason why I used the word said because my parents were there. I'm a pretty I kind of looked at myself as a pretty tough guy. But I here the guilty verdict and I'm looking back. That's the first thing I did. I looked back at my mom and I can see the expression on her face, dispression of a disbelief.

But my dad was he it was like, you know, he had a serious look because my dad had a little more knowledge and he knew what was going on, and he knew that my chances were slim, So I don't think he was surprised. But a mother's love for her son and something special, and it just it literally broke her heart. And I can see it. I can see it at that time, and that's what bothered me more than anything, you know, looking back and only seeing my mom's expression, you know, and I can see it.

It was written all over her face. And shortly after that, my mom did suffer a very serious stroke because it broke You get taken away, ultimately sentenced to a double life term, right and taken to prison. And you've I've heard you in a speech that you gave, very powerful speech that you gave explain what that was like. And it just blew my mind. So to take us there, Calvin, you what what prison were you sent to. I was

sent to a prison in South Georgia. I was actually sent to the hardest working UH state prison in the state of Georgia. At that time, I was young years old UH and they decided that, you know, this is a young person, that he can go down there. And it was really basically they sent you down into this prison and you work. It's a work camp. And everybody in the prison is a small prison, no no more than made about two men. But everybody there either has

life sentence or twenty years more. There's no short time is there at all. It's a close security prison. And you go outside and early in the morning. You wake up in the morning and they feed you. They walk around the shotgun above you like as if they say, hey, you know, feed my boys good and and the warden's walking around and he's looking down at you. And then

they take you out. And I remember working in swamp land and swamp water, and and with with water up to my knees, with moccasons swimming around and every now and then you run across a rattlesnaking. And this was

something that I never deal with in my life. It was it was really, it was just it was crazy, and I had to make this adjustment to just deal with that, and to deal with the valance of prison, where you're sleeping in your bed at night with your with your shoes on, because you never know when you

might wake up in the middle of the night. I remember one time individual I was sleeping on a double bunk and the bunk below me started shaking in the middle of the night, and I looked down and the guy below me were being stabbed because he borrowed some money I borrowed. Basically, it's not money, but cigarettes are candy or something, and he and pay his debt, and so it's it's his own world, as we call this

on the outside, the free world. The prison world is a whole different world in itself, and it's run differently, and it's just a matter of survival. You got you go in there, you and you try to survive. And the strong pay prayer upon the week, so you have to be strong. So during those course of years when I was in prison, I used to just lift weights all the time. It was a way, it was a therapy. It was a way for me to relieve some of the anxiety and the emotions that were after I lifted them.

I was too tired to do anything or to get in any trouble. Plus it built me up physically so that I could defend myself or at least people would think twice about before trying to take advantage of me anyway, because I was physically fit. And those years went by, and I remember being in prison and they wanted us to, uh, you know, prison doesn't rehabilitate you, but they like to make society think that that then the rehability of telling people.

And they had this program and they're called the Sexual Offenders program that they wanted me to be involved in. And I'm like, hell, you want me to be involved in the sexual offenders program? And so I had people make suggestions and say stuff like, you know, even my family just just hey, just just do the program, play along with them so that you can get out. And so you you you actually think about this, you know,

crazy thought. But I'm like, hey, I can't sit there and and say I did something that I didn't do. So I went ahead and got into the program for for a little while. And as I was in the program, you go through the first half. I felt terrible. I'm sitting in the room with with sexual predators, rapists and child molesters, and I just I just don't feel right. I don't say anything. I'm just sitting there in the

room every day going through this little class. And then finally they complete that part and you get to the second portion of the program and they say that in order to complete the program, you have to sign and admission to up. And I'm like, what sign a mission to guilt? I said, I can't do that. How can

I can't do that because I'm not guilty. And then I went to see my counselor, and the counselor looked at me and looked me in my eyes and told me said, listen, if you don't sign that mission of guilt, you'll probably never ever get out of prison. You'll be here for the rest of your life. And so guys were taking this course and signing the mission as a guilt and then they will get paroled out. But I

sat there, I thought about it. I prayed about it, and I thought about it, and I said to myself, I'd rather die in prison to sit there and say that I did something that I didn't do. I said, what kind of life would I have come out of prison. With that stigma over me, I said I couldn't live. I walk out into my yard and the neighbor run out and grabbed the children and run inside the house. That's not a life, that's not a life. So I

refused to do it. Those years went on, and those years went on within prison, and I remember getting to a point where my temporary started getting short. I started being anti social. I felt like a walking time bomb. I felt like a rubber band being stretched to a point that would just get ready to take pole and just pop. And I remember at that point, at that time, I just got down on my knees and I prayed.

I prayed, and I couldn't deal with the burden. That's when God entered into my life and my life changed. And then I remember hearing about DNA technology. This is down getting to the part of the story that's, you know, always the best part, I guess, right, which is when

things turn around in the right direction. And in your case, it was the Innocence Project, which obviously I have a very close connection with, being the founding board member and and being having served on the board for so many years and so many years alongside you, and so you started learning about the DNA technology, and it must have been like a light bulb going off, like wait, there might be hope for me after all. Yes, yes, that's exactly what happened. I uh. I was working in the

in the library in the prison. Because of my educational background, they gave me a job in the library. And they had the regular library for the prisoners, the convicts, and they also had a law library that that you could use at times. And the staff member who he ran both libraries, and he would allow me to have ass

to go into the law library whenever I wanted. And one day I stumbled across the article DNA technology where people were actually getting out of prison based on this technology, and I said, wow, now I'm trying to figure out how how the heck can I get a DNA test. I really really really really really wanted to do that to to prove that I was innocent, but that was a struggle in itself. And they had a guy named

Jim Browner, Jim Bonner. He used to come into the prisoner He was with this project called Prisoner Legal Counseling Projects who did a little simple stuff like habeas corpus for prisoners and so forth and I talked to him. I told him about my situation, and he's actually the one that got the balls started in the beginning, because when I told him about it, I told him my whole story. And after that, I looked him in the eyes. I said, you don't have to believe a word I said,

I said, but let me sing you my transcript. And I gave him my transcript and one day he read it and he came back. He said, Man, I can't believe this. He said, I'm really I really want to try to do something to help you because this is an atrocity in himself. And he said, I just can't

believe that this happened to you. And he started trying to see that there was some type of way that we can uh do something about my situation, and he found uh basically the most called extraordinary motion based on newly discovered evidence and to try to see if David had evidence, if it still existed. And so they went on the searching to see if the evidence even still existed, and in my case is one of the really strange

cases because at first they couldn't find it. But what happened was they had actually were going to destroy the evidence. There was no laws at that time. They said they had to keep it after after the trial and evidence had been thrown into a trashman to be destroyed, and somebody from the court they saw it and they said, hey, why is this evidence being destroyed and throw it away?

And they took it and they put it back. The evidence that freed you was actually in a trash can and somebody show it and had like your name on it or something like that, and was like, wait, let me pluck that out. Is that it seems like it seems unreal. It does. It does seem very unreal. But this is exactly how it was explained to me that it was actually, you know, in a trash being to be destroyed. I looked at it. It was a miracle.

It was a miracle. And so the evidence was was was brought back out and that was the evidence that they were going to test. But then after that they they took and then the prison of ligal counselor project that was helping me with this guy, they actually stopped the project. So I'm looking, I said, well, wow, now what did I do? And then a friend, a friend of mine who knew the plight of my situation who

lived in Ohio, who I grew up with. They were at I guess what you call, the place where you hand out food and clothing and so forth to people to come through that that are in need. And some guy, this was in Ohio. I don't know who the guy was, but some some guy was in the line and he was young, and and my I called my at Marty, who was my godmother. She said, well, you know, man, why don't you have a job. Why are you in

this line? And he said, well, I just recently got out of prison, and he told her about he mentioned about the Innocent Project. He said, they got me out a prison for a crime I didn't commit. And they said, wow, you know, keep us the information. Just give us that information and we'll bring you some more clothes and help you out a little bit more. Just give us the information card. We know somebody in the same situation, and they wrote me a letter and he gave me the

information about the Innocent Project. And that's when I got in contact with the Innocent Project. And this was not too long after the Innocent Project had started, because we're talking about late nineties now, right, um, And so yeah, so you because I know that you were the first uh d n A ex honoree in Georgia. Right, That's that's a powerful thing. I mean, that's that No one's

ever gonna take that away from you. I know that's not you know, I always say to all the guests that we have on the show, you know, I'm happy you're here, but I'm sorry you're here because you're a member of a club that no one should ever have to be a member of, a no one would ever want to be a member of. But that is an amazing distinction. And of course now you're irving with distinction not only on the Instence Project parting you're up and

also the board of the Georgia Instence Project. So that's so there's two there's two miracles here, right, One is pulling the thing out of the garbage can, and the other is bumping into this guy sort of randomly who had this information that you were looking for. And then things started to really progress once I got involved with the Insistence Project. Actually, uh, you know, once they took it,

I actually I have very strong faith in them. I believe once they took it, I said, okay, wow, just a matter of time before I walk away and then I'm I'm free. But then they took and they had my evidence tested, and once they had it tested, it came back where it was inconclusive. At first, it actually came back inconclusive. And then I remember talking to Barry and Peter on the phone and they were saying, you got a choice. You know, what what are you gonna

do now? They said, all the evidence is basically almost almost used up if we continue to test there. What happened is if we use up out evidence, you'll never get out of prison, coup, we won't have anything that's to test. Or you can wait till years later with technology improves, as we get better technology, then we can test that small amount of evidence and try to get the proper result. They said, we do an know a guy in California and doctor Edward Blake, who's really good.

Now it's up to you to make that decision. And I decided, you know, at that time, I said, well, you know, let's go ahead. Let's go ahead. If we rather we use it up or not, you know, let's go forward. And they sent it out to a guy named doctor Edward Blake, and Dr Edward Blake tested it and he came back with the results. And I can't really see how you know the numbers, but I know are proven beyond any reasonable doubt that there was no way through DNA technology that I could have could have

committed the crime. And that was in November of nineteen and it still wasn't until nineteen nine before I was actually, uh was able to walk out of prison. So let's talk about that. June was your exoneration date. And what was the scene in the courtroom. Let's do this again, right, so this is your backing court. Um, was it the same court where you were convicted? It wasn't the exact same courtroom, but it was still it with Clayton County,

with Clayton County. Well, I can remember before I, before I even walked into the courtroom, Peter Newfield was there and he was my my attorney that day. And Peter walked up to me and said, uh, Calvin, Uh, there's gonna be some some some news people. It shouldn't be that bad, but there are gonna be some cameras and

so forth that maybe uh waiting on you. And he asked me, He looked at me, he said, Calvina, what are you plan to say I have a way of answering questions that I just looked at him and said, Peter, don't worry, I'm not gonna embarrass you, and just kind of laughed. And then we went into the courtroom and I remember my family was there. My mother couldn't be

there because she was a bedridden at the time. Uh so she was in the medical facility, but so she couldn't be there, but my father was there, my sisters were there. I remember the judge going through the proceedings and I remember him saying, well, Mr Johnson, you're free. I remember the prosecutor he walked over to me and he he never did an apologize or anything. It just kind of reached out and I did shake his hand. People wondered would I even shake his hand, but yes,

I shook his hand. I shook his hand and he said something like, well, uh, I wish you the best. But you know, at the time, we felt like we were doing what was right, so, you know, and I kind of I didn't say anything, and so we walked on out and all these cameras were there, and so it was a good feeling. I walked out and you know this the sunshine it was. It was another beautiful day and all I want to do is go see my mom. And I went to see my mom and she was bed rim She had a trickia in her throat,

so she couldn't couldn't hardly talk. But I saw when she saw me a tear, a tear ran down her face. And I told her that was a tear jaw. And that was the most special moment of me being released. But when I walked into that room to see a beautiful moment, like you said, and um, and and it's so great that she lived to see it, you know. Uh, that's that's a silver lining in this dark cloud. Um. And so one of the silver lines in this dark cloud. And now Calvin, let's see it's now here. We are

two thousand and eighteen. So you've been out for nineteen years now, Um, and tell us what your life is like. I know you went to work for the transportation authority down there in Martha. Um wrote a book. Wow. Well, first of all, when I got out of nineteen nine and that I got involved with a company called tech Rail, which was a Christian company, and then actually I went out a missionary trip with them to Uganda, Africa, and

that was amazing. Uh. It was a very humbling experience because it's a very it's a third world country and people are very poor over there. But we went over there and we actually went into the bush area. We went to Kapala University and they made me the main speaker. And I was shocked because we had other ministers with us who had churches, but yet they made me the main speaker. I couldn't believe it, but I shared my story. It was very well received, and it was a very humbling,

humbling experience. And I remember my dad making jokes like saying, hey, you know, you're just as you're two minutes of fame. It say it's not gonna last, but it just it kept going on and kept going on. And I remember being um, different shows, different uh Today, uh, Good Morning America, The Today's Show and uh BT with Tavinth Smaley and here I am traveling around and was speaking and I'm sharing.

And then I remember a couple of years ago went by and they formed the board of directors for the Innocent Project in New York, and they actually asked me what I like to sit on the board of directors, and I was shocked. I mean it was I was so honored to be asked. I was the first of honoree in the in the country to sit on the board like that on Innocent Project. Well, I mean this is this was it was. It was amazing to me, uh, just to be able to sit there and to share

and to give my my my input. You know. Sometimes I actually sometimes I felt overwhelmed being around such powerful people, and I remember I was being so thankful. I remember sometime driving down the street and just looking at my house and and almost crying. You know, I didn't cry, but I would feel like crying because I was just so thankful that that people that I didn't even know

reached out to to try to help me. The volunteers, the supporters, the havel the attorneys, uh, people that I look now as as being great people in my eyes, who are not just great people, but they're my friends.

I look at Barryscheck and Peter Newfield and Maddie Delone and and the Jason Flams of the world as great people that have made a difference, They have changed lives, that are making difference into this judicial system that we have in this country that's not perfect it's a great country, but the system has some flaws because anything that man made may not be perfect. And so my life went on. My life went on. I've been married twice. Uh, my first marriage I end up getting a divorce and my

second marriage. Believe it or not, I'm actually going through a divorce. But hey, I'm free. I'm free. I've been at my job now at the transportation agency with with Martin Metro Partner Atlanta Repertransit Authorities for nineteen years. I could probably retire in another year if I want to, and I still do a little a few speaking engagement. I still travel here and there and share my story.

As you said, I did write a book called Exit the Freedom, what I tell people is not just a physical but it's a spiritual exit also, And so my freedom came either. Actually before I walked through those doors, I felt free on the inside and that a lot.

And that's why I was able to forgive and let go and move on with my life, which was one of the most important things that I could do, was take control by forgiving and letting go through the power of God and saying thank you, thank you for for this opportunity to the people that that touched my life and made it possible. And here I am now. I live, I have a nice home, Jason. You know, I got three dogs. Uh, my daughter lives with me, and I

got a sports car. I don't I don't write motorcycles anymore. I wrote motorcycles for years. I love motorcycles, but I actually gave it up this year in January. And that's that's this is my life. I very very very amazing. I mean it's beautiful. Uh it's a beautiful ending. Um, it's not an ending, but it's a beautiful phase that you're in. I guess you could say, with the with the three dogs and the daughter and the and you.

And it's like, uh, it really does put a smile on my face thinking about how how you've been able to you know, persevere and and overcome and and really triumph and build this wonderful life for yourself. Um. Before we wrap up, Calvin, I'm actually remembering, Uh, you and I shared the stage one time at it and it's this project event and this was right after you had gone to Aspen, Colorado and you told the story. Do

you remember that story? Oh? Which one? The one when uh, when you went skiing, and and yeah, if you can remember, I really yeah, I love to tell that story because that that, you know, that was one of the highlights since I've been free. That was one of the highlights.

Is that is at the top, I mean next to you know, my daughter in barn and these events like that, which are very special because uh, you know, but this this, this was I remember I had to speaking engagement and asked in Colorado, okay, never been an aspend, never been in Colorado, never been skinned before in my life. And I'm just I'm just planning to go there for a

couple of days. I remember you and I we we spoke and you said, you said, Calvin, you can't go to Aspen just for a couple of days and not ski. You know, hold up, let me let me, let me, let me take care of something. Let me make a phone call. Next thing I know, you called me back and you said, hey, you know, Calvin, you know you're gonna stay there for for almost a week, you know, some more, a couple of extra days, and I'm gonna have somebody who's gonna get in touch with you, and

you're gonna go skin. And sure enough, I went out there and a guy came and he introduced himself and said, I'm here. I'll behalf of Jason Flower. He took me uh and brought me some ski gear and so forth, and then we went to the skin and I had a private instructor, and I remember with the private instructor, he uh, he kept taking me back and forth on the baby slope because this is my first time every skin in my life. But I'm loving it. And so the second day I went skinning, I'm begging this guy

to take me to the top of the mountain. But he's you know, he's like, man, this is just your second day skin and I'm not gonna take you to the top of the mountain. I said, you got to take me to the top of the mountain. I said, I don't know if I ever do this again in my life. I said, this is this. I want to go to the top of the mountain. And at that time, I used to write sport bikes and I had sport bikes they should go zero to sixty and two seconds.

And so I'm telling this guy, said, hey, hey, man, I ride a motorcycle. Go zero to sixty and two seconds. Now. If I can do that, you can take me to the top of the mountain. And so I went to the top of the mountain and I started coming down. And when I first took off, I hit one of them. I guess I was on one of the slopes. I guess it wanted the higher degrees, and I fell, but I got right back up, and then I said, Okay, I got it. This time. I gotta keep zig zagging

to slow myself down. And so I got up and I kept zig zagging back and forth going down the slope. And then when I got to the point where I could see the bottom, I turned straight and I just started flying. And then I could hear the guy destructed behind me, hollering, you behind me, holler slow down, Slow down, slow down. Now I'm just flying down the slope, having a great day. I got the biggest smile on my face from ear to ear. And I get to the

bottom and I don't fall. I spent sideways and I stopped. You know, he's behind me, just shaking his head. And I never forget that. I'm so thankful to you, Jason, for giving me the opportunity to go skin I have been skinning since, but that one time never funny. I actually remember, if I remember correctly, it was a long

time ago. I remember when you gave that speech and you said you said, he said, he says I'm not taking to talk about and you said to him, it's slightly different than what you just told me now, But I don't know which version is correct. But you said I survived sixteen years and the maxter Security prison take me to the top of the mountain. And I was like, oh, man, yeah, yeah, I did. I said that too. So that's that's a great story, and I'm glad it just came back to me.

It must have been fifteen years ago when I heard you tell that story. But um, Calvin, we have a tradition at at Wrong for Conviction, which our listeners are are very familiar with by now. I think it's a lot of people's favorite part of the show. I know it's my favorite part of the show. And that's a part of the show where I stopped talking. And as we wrap up, and before I thank you one final time for being here, I just want to leave the mic on and ask you if you have any final

thoughts that you want to share with our audience. It's all yours. First of all, I just like to say that I'm very thankful. I'd like to thank my mother and my father who no longer here. My father passed away in June this year, and that was a little bit rough because I got to spend a lot of time with him. I mean, are very we we were very close, and my mother and I we were close. She passed away back in two thousand. But they instilled in me a strength, uh. And he should always say,

you're from good stock. You're from good stock. And they gave me that inner strength. And that's what helped me when I was in prison. Despite everything, I will not let prison break me. In prison with design is designed to tear you down, destroy you, and break you into what they want you to be. And I wouldn't let them do it. I never allowed them to break me. Uh.

I stayed positive. There were times when it was a little bit rough, but all in all, you know, I believe that one day that even with the flicker of hope was just about to go out, that Canada was about to be distinguished. I still had that flicker of hope that one day that I would walk out of free man. And I actually said that on the day of my sentences that I believe that the truth will come out one day. I can say thank you all

day long. Called there's so much to think. And those who I haven't even mentioned by name, I'm thankful to them because, Uh, there's volunteers that I don't know, the supporters that I don't know. There's some staff members that I don't know, uh, up at the Innocence Project. But the project has grown so much. It was so small when I first got out. Now it's a it's a it's a natural has a national network, has projects all

across the world, and it's it's it's really unbelievable. I got a chance this year to go to the to the network conference and to see how it has grown and to see that there are people there from from different countries, and it was I'm just I'm glad to be a part of this. This this this amazing movement that's making a difference and changing laws and not only changing laws, but helping people to get the life that started all over again. And that's basically you know, all

that I can say right now is thank you. I want to thank you for being so to great advocate and just such a great example of human potential and the work that we do is you know, because of people like you. UM, and UH, you know we'll never stop. Uh. We're gonna keep fighting and fighting and fighting until there's no more fighting left to be done. UM. And so again, Calvin, I just want to thank you for sharing your story here on Wrongful Conviction. UM. I wish you all the best.

I want to thank uh in addition to your ski instructor, the one that's the two day ski instructor, Chuck Kessler, for keeping you alive in spite of the fact that you've made it difficult for him. And yeah, and and anything. The last question I want to ask you is if people want to book you for speaking, UM, are you still doing that? Would you like to share an email address or a website or anything like that. Yes, that's my email addresses e x I t oh f R e e x oh free, e x I t O

f R at yahoo dot com. Uh, feel free to email me anytime I'm still doing speaking engagements. And yes I'm available UM off days on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. I do work. I do have a job, but I usually can fit it in something. So email Calvin for bookings or for advice on fishing or anything else you can think of. Maybe he'll even give you a ski lesson. Um. Calvin, thank you again for being here. I I look forward to seeing you again soon. And to our audience, thank

you read this book to extit to Freedom. Calvin Johnson, excit to Freedom. Don't forget to order that um and uh, I'm gonna order one myself today too. So UM. Once again, thank you to everyone for tuning in. It's just been a very special episode with my friend and ex honoree Calvin Johnson. Thank you, Jason, don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you get your podcasts, it really helps.

And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocence Project dot org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wardis. The music on the show

is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful conviction podcast Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flam is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one