I've never been in trouble in my life. I didn't even have a parking ticket, you know what I mean. I was brought up like cops are the good guys.
I didn't know what was going to happen, but I do know that everything was stacked against me.
Everything like everything.
This isn't supposed to happen this way. I'm innocent. I know I'm innocent. I know I had nothing to do with this. How is this possible?
I grew up trusting the systems. I've grew up believing that every human being should do the right thing. And that's why, even though I knew I was dealing with four other people, I wasn't going to break anyone to get me out of prison because I wouldn't live with the fact that I break my way out of my wife's death.
I'm not innocent, too proven guilty.
I'm guilty until I prove my innocence.
And that's absolutely what happened to me. Our system. Since I've been out ten years, it's come a little ways, but it's still broken.
I totally lost trusting humanity after what's happened to me.
This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. Today's episode is insane. This story will really rattle your perceptions of criminal justice, and the guy who's here to tell it is an extraordinary guy.
In two thousand and eight, Stephen Barnes entered an unfamiliar new world. For two decades, he'd been locked in prison, convicted for the murder of sixteen year old Kimberly Simon. It was a crime he had not committed. A jury convicted Barnes in nineteen eighty nine, based on mistakes by eyewitnesses, allying jail house informant and bad science DNA evidence exonerated Barnes two days before Thanksgiving.
In two thousand and eight, Stephen Barnes, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
Thank you for having me.
Your case is truly bizarre in that it is one of the most It's an unreal situation when you were convicted with the total absence of any kind of evidence, and with everything that there was pointing elsewhere. We're going to get into that later, but I want to go back to the beginning because you were really just a kid when this happened. You grew up in the suburbs in New York, right.
Yeah, a small town in Utica, New York called Marcy, New.
York, right, And how was your childhood good?
I went to Catholic school for eight years. I went to another high school for two years. When I was seventeen years old, my real father passed away. And then when I was nineteen, I was a year out of high school. I graduated high school in nineteen eighty four. Nineteen eighty five was when my nightmare started.
And your nightmare it started and it stopped, and then it really took on a new because this was a cold case. This is a terrible case. This is a sixteen year old girl.
Yep. She was brewery raped and murdered, and they found her off a main road about three miles from my house where I grew up.
Did you know her?
No, she was three years younger than me. I didn't never hung out with her, I didn't.
Over never matter.
Nope. And she lived right in the same town I did.
Her parents did, so this must have been big news in the town. You don't have a lot of murders.
Up there, No, it was, Yes, it was a big thing because my area there, stuff don't happen.
No, that kind of stuff don't happen. And so people must have been panic. Was there a lot of news media coverage.
And there was media all over back in eighty five. How I got involved is where they found her body. There was four corners and they had the cops had roadblocks, and I went through the roadblock and they had eight by ten pictures of her and they asked, have you seen this girl? And I said no. And then later on that day I went through the roadblock again, but on my way home. My buddy has a beverage center and I wanted to get a six pack of beer.
So I made a you turned through the communience store and the cop was on the payphone and he saw me cut through the parking lot and I shot. He shot across the street and he pulled me over and he asked me for my license and my registration, and he said, why did you turn around? I said, I wanted to get a six pack and I forgot I.
Oh, so they thought you turn around to avoid the road.
Yes, And I went through the roadblock early in the day in the morning.
Your case really highlights the fact that this can happen to anyone. Like you're painting such a mundane picture, right, It's like you're going to your thing. You're going to tell you get a six pack, make you turn things that everybody verty much has done, and you're just a typical kid in a typical town. And then what.
After that incident. It was three days exactly three days later they called me out at my mother's house and said, can you come up to the sherif's apartment answer some questions?
And what were you thinking when you got that call?
Yeah, I was like wow, and I'm like, okay, I got nothing to high. I'll go up there and answer wherever they got, you know, little bit. I know. I was there for twelve and twelve hours.
Did you get a lawyer or anything else? Nothing?
My first hour there there asked me where I was on September eighteenth, nineteen eighty five, and I told him what I did from when I got up to what I did that night and well, and then another investigator came in and he asked me the same questions. And then another investigator came in and he remember, he looked me in the eye and he slammed his hand on the desk and he says, you fin did this, and
you're gonna tell us how he did it? And I stood up and I said, I effin did not do it, and I am trying to cooperate with your people, and you're trying to blame me. Put this on me. I go, I had nothing to do with it. I says, can I call my mother? Yeah, in a minute. In a minute, I said, can I have a glass of water? They didn't give me a glass of water. Then I said, Then after a while, they said, can we search your vehicle? I said sure, I had to sign a waiver. Then
they made me take my shirt off. They're looking for scratches. They kept interrogating me, asked me who my girlfriend was at the time, what do I like to do? And they kept going back and forth, and you know, and they treated me like shit, excuse my langue. Which then after about ten hours, they said, would you take a polygraph test? Yeah?
Hold on, ten hours? After ten hours of irrigation, did you get any water by now?
Or nothing?
No phone call?
No, no phone never came nothing.
Did you ever ask for a lawyer?
Yes? Nothing, they said, I never asked for nothing. Well the cop took the stand and he said no.
But so you did ask for a lawyer? That's I mean? Because yeah, they didn't even at what point did you realize that you needed a lawyer?
Because well, after like the first three four hours, I go, this is getting really intense here. They really think I have something to do with this, and uh, I've never been in trouble in my life. I didn't even have a parking ticket, you know what I mean. I was brought up like cops are the good guys. My parents brought me up. You know, copstantly treat you this. These guys would treating me like I was already convicted. I was. I was a scumbag, you know what I mean.
It was like Charles Manson in there.
I mean, I go, wait a minute, I go, I'm just living my normal life. Like nineteen year old kid, I just got my year out of high school. I go, I'm just you know, next thing, you know, like they're accusing me a murder rate. Its insane.
Nineteen you're really still you're closer to a child than an adult. But you don't have the sense to ask for a lawyer. And this is something I tell people as often as I can, because it's so important. If you do get picked up for something you didn't do. First of all, remember they're not your friends, right, and they're not there to help you in that situation. So
you have to protect yourself. And that means ask for a lawyer as soon as you go in there and stop talking, yes, because anything you say like this sayd TV, anything you say can be used against you, and it will be. And then at that point you have a very adversarial relationship, but purely adversary relationship. They want you
to confess to something, and which is amazing too. By the way, you were interrogated for twelve hours and you didn't confess, and you were a teenager, so you don't confess twelve hours go by?
Now what Well, I took the polygraphs house State. They threw me in a cop card, took me probably like twenty minutes away to a state police barracks, threw me in a room, gave me in his book. So I look through. The book tells you how polygraph is, how it works.
What time is it now?
Oh, it's just started at noon. Now we're almost at eleven o'clock at night. It's late, you know. So I didn't know what to I heard of them. I never took one. So they hook all this stuff up to me. You know, I'm already nervous wreck. You know, they're trying to blame me for this for the last ten hours, harassing the hell out of me. I'm like stressed out, aggravated, nervous, you know what. I'm like. This is not this is not good. You know what I mean, because a polygraph
test works on your nerves. So they asked me some questions. I don't even remember half the questions. They asked me, if somebody paid me to do this? Do you know soon? And so took the test and I remember it was about half about an hour, and I remember I was sitting in a small room and they had a glass two way of mirror, and the cops were behind there watching me. There's this guy that was this guy. He goes, I'm a professional. I do this for a living. I polygraph doctors, lawyers, this, everybody.
You know.
Okay, I understand it's your job. So we did the polygraph and then on the way the cops brought me back to get my truck at the sheriff's apartment and they go, I go, so now what they go, You're free to go home?
Said, oh, so they didn't tell you if you pass or failed.
No, So I get in my truck. It's all white, finger printed floor mats are out of it. Whatever, they destroyed it. So I went home as lived with my mother still and she goes, where are you being? She was sleeping, you know, one o'clock in the morning. I go, you got to get up. I go, we got problems there. She goes, what. I go, They're trying to blame me for this Kim Simon's murder. I says, I was up there. She goes, where are you bent all day? I said, I've been up there for a little over twelve hours.
She goes, why don't you call me? I said, I asked for a phone call. They won't you let me nothing. So the next day my mother we had a family attorney friend, so we called him and I told him the situation, and then he called the sheriff's apartment. He said, well, they told him the polygraph came back and conclusive. Is he willing to take another one? And my lawyer that I had, he goes, no, he's not taking another one.
And it was about six months after that they called my house and said, you are to report over to the hospital to give up blood and hair.
Six months have gone by, six months after the interrogation, So after six months, you're in the clear.
Yes, I'm living my life. Yep, I'm going to work.
I've had a very unpleasant experience.
But yeah, I says, okay, you know, so I go up to me and my mom drive up there to take vowels of blood and take care from all over my body, and I went home. For the next three years, they fouled me, harassed me, called my ex girlfriend up, interrogated her, asked her all kinds of stuff, what type of sex do I like this?
That?
What type of person I am? My awn, drugs do I drink? All this, you know, crazy stuff, told her parents that she keeps dating me, she's going to be the next one, you know, all this crazy stuff, and I go really, So it was three and a half years later after the artificial interrogation. I'm sitting home. It was March twenty fifth, nineteen eighty eight. My girlfriend's birthday
was going to be on the twenty ninth. Me, my little brother, and my girlfriend were sitting at my mother's house hanging out watching Back in them days, MTV was good, you know, with the videos. So we're watching it, having a couple of pops and my brother. You know, we're talking. All of a sudden, there's a knock on the door. There's the two investigators that interrogated me. They go, hi, Steve, can do you remember us? I said, oh, can I forget your ugly mug? You know what I mean? You
guys might my life in mesable win. I go, what do you want now? They said, A couple people come forward and you're under the rest, So step out of the house. My brother's flipping out, my girlfriend's crying. I'm flipping out. They cuffed me, stuffed me in the car. I'm cursing all the way to the from my mother's house to the sheriff's apartment's probably a ten minute drive. They had about twelve police cars. All the freaking guys are out, guns drawn. You know, it's like, what the
hell's going on? I'm like, this is insane. Bring me up to the sheriff's department and the media is there, and they filmed the cameras getting me out of the cop car, and next day in the papers, you know, we got the real murderer of this. So I was in the county jail for about two months and They finally gave me bail one hundred thousands, so my mother put up her house and I had a basic lawyer, but he wasn't too good. My mother hired a prominent lawyer in the here. He was noted for. He's been
around a long time. And I was out on bail about a year. I couldn't go anywhere I had. I was like an house arrest. I didn't wear a bracelet, but I just went to work and came home. I couldn't go anywhere, couldn't go to bars.
You were probably infamous at this point, right, I mean you'd already been convicted in the media pretty much.
Oh yeah. They already had me, you know, they had me sealed and deal that was you know, yeah, I mean if you oh yeah, they already said yeah, yeah.
Did you you would get harassed?
Oh yeah, I would go. I would go to the store with my mother and the people there's that scumbag Barns, that murder rapist, you know, stuff like that. So I just ignored it. And the cops used to follow me around, you know. And my girlfriend was going to the college not far from my house, and they would sit in the parking lot. I would go down and visit her, and they would sit in the parking lot. And when
I was out in bail, they'd follow me around. And one day they were in behind me and I stopped my truck and got out, and I says, what's your round? And I go, you can follow me everywhere. Me and my girlfriend went skiing. The officer was up on the mountain skiing right behind us. They're followed me all around when I'm out on bail, and I'm like, man, I can't even go anywhere, you know what I mean. And then I wanted to go to New York State Fair and I was out on bail, and he said I
had to go to the chudge. You leave the county and I go to State Fair and I run into the investigators there. I go, do you guys think nothing better to do? And to follow me around? And so that went on for almost a year, and then my trial started in May of nineteen eighty nine and picked my jury. In my trial, I went through about seven hundred people to get a juror, and my juror was mostly elderly people. I don't think they every won a lot of people back in the days. They didn't really
want to be on a jury. They they think they paid you like five or eight bucks and jury duty. And my trial was all circumstantial. Maybe perhaps or could have beens. My three main things in my trial was when I was in a county jail for a few months, we call him jailhouse rats. There was this guy locked on the gallery with me. I never spoke to him. I knew who he was because when I was in a county I didn't really talk to any guys, you know. I stayed to myself, didn't talk my case with nobody.
And this guy was career criminal, was facing three to nine years state for stolen credit cards, bad checks, and he after I got on a bail, the investigators went and interviewed everybody on my tier and this guy said that I was talking to him, and I admitted to him that I said that I killed this girl.
Classic.
Yes, the conversation never happened. He got a time cut. He ended up doing three or four months in the county jail and got sprung. He never got a street to nine, and it was supposed.
To get because he did them a big favor.
Yes, he lied. And then when they searched my truck, this is what they call junk science. They said there was a similar gene imprint on the side of my truck that was similar to her type of Back in the eighties there was Jordash jeans and the style of the jeans was imprinted on the side of my truck. They said it was similar to hers. Well, they had
this guy from the gene company. He testify that with that type of pattern, that type of gene and that time frame that in that year, they narrowed it down to three thoud and pairs of jeans with that same pattern. So anybody saved my truck was parking the parking lot and somebody was at the grocery store, bumped in the side of my truck. Had that saved what's today's a They wouldn't use that in trial. They would throw that right out. You know, it's called junk.
It's total junk, and it's ridiculous. I mean, I remember back then jordan Ash is one of the most popular type of jeans.
Yeah, and it was. They had the guy there and he was talking about the pattern he had all blown up and it was so and then when I when I let him search my truck, they found of hair and they said it was similar to hers.
It was similar to hers. It was blonde, but your sister was blonde, Yes, right, I mean so like, yeah, that's amazing. It was similar to hers. That's great.
Now this day and age, there's no such thing as a similar hair. You know, it's your hair, you know's We're in a lot more technology now. But and then they took dirt from under my rear rolls in my truck.
Yeah, this is where it really blows my mind that they sat.
The dirt was similar at the crime scene.
The dirt was similar. Oh my god, dirt was.
When my lawyer talked to somebody in my whole county, like ninety five percent of the whole county has sand in the dirt, and they asked me, where did you get the dirt on you? And behind my mother's house, we used to have a little spot we hung out and we drove our trucks back. There was a little hangout for us neighborroad kids. And I didn't wash my truck on a regular basis, and I end dirt. So they had these jars dirt like it was like a big thing.
I'm like, So the three types of circumstantial evidence, which each one is ridiculous. Right, Yes, were a gene imprint, which, by the way, how good of an imprint can a gene make on a car? Let's just reflect on days and days or weeks later. There's a gene imprint. That's ridiculous. Okay, that's number one. You had the hair which was quote unquote similar to the victims, right, A lot of people have similar hair. It was blonde, right, Okay, so that's
not really I mean, that's pretty crazy. And then you have dirt, right, Dirt is dirt, right, I mean I'm not a horticulturalist, but no. And the idea that you're going to convict somebody and sentenced them to twenty five years to life.
And a Jared dirt it's similar. It don't make sense.
And then let's talk Steven also about the evidence in this case. There was, of call it overwhelming evidence of innocence, right, And let's talk about those scales of justice and the evidence that tipped in your favor and why this should have been really a relatively simple verdict for the jury to reach. Right. There was there was an alibi, right, So I was at.
A bowling alley had at night and I had my bone sheet, I had my buddy I was with. We left the bowling alley, went to a party. He testified his parents owned the bowling alley. They testified people that were at the bowling alley in the bar with me all testified. There was one guy at the bar that was supposed to be a friend of mine, but he was friends with the victim's family, and he said that
I Will wasn't at the bar at the time. I said, So, you got forty something people saying I'm there at this time, and they got one guy saying that I wasn't there at that time at six o'clock, five thirty quarter six. He said, I was there later at seven. And it's hard for me to believe that a jury would listen to one guy over forty people that had the same story.
But that's not all. Then you also had the fact that there was no physical evidence connecting you to the crime. And then there was the tire tracks. Right, your car doesn't match, you know, entire tracks. Now we're getting to something that has an actual basis in science. Right, these fires are a certain size. Yes, you can't change that size. You didn't change the tires on your car that night? Did you no kidding on me?
I was a truck, you know, I had a pretty good sized tread on it. And they said in my trial that a lot of the tire tracks were from the cop cars. And my layer said, well, why didn't shoot because they never took castings in nothing, And that's what they said. They didn't take casting because there was a few tracks when they first got at the scene. But they didn't really these officers, I call him Mickey Mouse.
They were sheriffs. They go to a community college, they get a two year degree and they give him a badge and they think they're investigator of you know, they think they're working for the FBI. They going aught from a.
Home to the ground. Now Colombo, right, yeah, so your trial must have taken forever. It's seven hundred jurors at the head data if you I mean, how long did all that take?
Picked the juror was a couple of weeks, and.
Then how long did the trial take?
It was almost a month, So this is three and a half weeks. And I was saying earlier I had the junk science and then there was a jail house in format, and then I had one other person this guy was in Utica cop he was off duty. He sent him back in nineteen eighty five. He didn't know what vehicle he saw or what person he saw on the same road where they found their body. He took the stand in my trial and he said after three and a half years his mind got better and he
picked me and my truck out. And what they did is they had a photo lineup of all these different people, and he said it was a blond guy. Well, my picture was the only one with blonde hair. Everybody else had different color hair. Then he had a lineup of trucks. They had white trucks, they had they had blue, different pickups. My truck was the only red Maroonis pickup truck. And
that's what he saw. But he said he was going down Mohawk Street at fifty miles an hour and they said, at the rate of speed, you only have so many seconds to see a vehicle. Well, this guy said he picked out he saw on the front of my truck. He had my license plate, and then blow that I had it was a GMC. I had another colorful plate that went underneath. You know, it was a big thing in the eighties, you know, it was a kid thing,
and he said he saw that. But if you look at my truck and you see that GMC plate, you're going to see the license plate right above it. It's like automatic, you know, it's like one piece. He said he didn't see the plate number, but his body was running for sheriff that year, and he wanted to be the under sheriff. So that was a politic move, you know what I mean.
So you had he was an incentivized way too. It blows my mind that everyone knows it's illegal to bribe a witness. You couldn't have paid somebody to come in and go no, no, no, Steve, definitely not. I saw him on the thing. Whatever. You can't do that. That's totally you got to jail for that. But the government can offer the best bribe in the world in exchange for false testimony, which is they can go to a guy like this guy who sounds like a career scumbag, right,
this guy stole O or whatever his name was, Murder. Yeah. So the idea that they can bribe somebody like that with the you know, giving them literally years and years of prison time make it just manash like a miracle. Do you think Steve, that they knew that you were innocent.
I think they did. I think they wanted to solve the case. There was a lot of pressure. Like I said earlier, small town murder rapes like that don't happen every you know, doesn't happen in my area, you know what I mean. It was like this was the biggest story in a long time, you know what I mean, ever since I was a kid. I don't remember.
Yeah, let me let me correct you. They didn't want to solve the case. They wanted to clear the clared. To solve the case, they would have had to actually go back to work.
It was on the news every day in the media. I mean, they just kept it was never quiet.
So the jury goes out and how long did they deliberate?
For almost twenty four hours.
That must have been one of the hardest twenty four hours of your life.
Yes, the first day I went home after the jury, they just you know, nine to five. It was a quarter hour days they went And I remember in the second day I was home and buddy mine and my couple of my buddies around. They go, Yeah, it was right before Memorial Day. We were going to go to like a festival party. They had field days in my area. Fireman, it's like a carnival. My buddy goes, yeah, we'll be going there tonight and I said yeah. I says, everything's
going to work out. And I haven't slept like a long, you know, since the jury went out, you know what I mean. It's like, this is my life, you know what I mean. They're trying to nail me to the cross for somebody to do, you know what i mean. I'm like, I'm like, this can't be happening, you know what I mean. I'm like, I'm Liko. And I came. I went to this trial, and so we got to call the juries back and we went to the courtroom
and me and my lawyer we walked in. I get a little teary eyed sometimes we uh ye, but uh every day during a trial, the jury used to look at me when I when I when I was sitting there, you know, when people were testifying, the jury used to look at me. We'd take a break, come in and out, and the jury used to always look at us, me and my lawyer. But that day we came, you know, the jury came back and they wouldn't look at me.
And my lawyer. We walked in the courtroom and they sit down and then they jury foreman gives the judge. You know, we were you know, we reached the verdict and they said please stand and they said guilty. And I melted, but yeah, I was about the statues day of my life. None not sorry, I get emotional about that. But my lawyer looked at me and I seen this theory come down to side and he said, I'm awful, sorry, and I said, so they cought me and put me in jubail, you know, revoke my.
Bail, and.
We tried to get a retrial, and you know, my lawyer put in different motions. He said, somebody on the jury knew somebody testified and they investigated and they said no, it's you know, nothing denied. So that was June second. I di verdict came back nineteen eighty nine. I got sentenced in September. September second and I went to court and they gave me the max. They twenty five to the life for murder, rape inside of me and before they sutens me, I told the judge I'm in and
my little sister jumped up in the courtroom side. You rare over with my brother because the DA said I didn't show any remorse, because my sister jumped up and said, that's because he didn't do it, you know, and they escorted her out of the courtroom, and a few other people shouted out some things, and the judge says, everybody's got to be quiet, and so they sutens me. Then eight days later, I was sitting in Attica and I remember the two officers that brought me up date. You know,
they talked ship to me the whole time. They said, Uh, you're gonna be somebody's bitch in jail. You know, they're gonna get you because you're a you have a rape charge. So I figured, you know, I'm gonna be home a couple of years. It didn't work. A couple of years turned into uh, twenty years.
While you are inside in some of these most violent, hellish places, it really is hell on earth. How did you maintain hope?
Well, the main thing was my family. They were my main supporters. A lot of guys in prison, I don't have any family, you know, and I know I didn't do this, and I said, I'm going to fight to the end, and some day the truth will set me free. And I never realized it would take twenty years, you know what I mean? I thought, you know, but it did, and here you are and here I am on the show. But like I always tell everybody, hope, you know, hope.
In my family, it's all they had when I was in jail, I had my mother, my brother, and my sister. I had one close friend, the guy I was with that night at the balling, and he came to visit me a couple of times, but everybody else moved on. My first six months upstate, I told my girlfriend, I said, go live your life. I don't know what's going to happen with me. She was a year younger than me. I said, go meet mister Wright. You know, have I ever run into you again? You know, I hope you do.
I said you'd be happy. And she cried and I cried. And so I'm in jail, and you know, I never called it my home or accepted it, but I figured, you know, my lawyer, my child or he did my appeals worked department in Rochester. They shot my appeal down. Then I tried to go to a Court of Appeals and they denied me entry. And then six months after that, my lawyer died of a massive heart attack at the age of sixty eight. Another part of my luck, my
lawyer dies. The assistant DA that tried me, he died of a massive heart attack six months after my lawyer died of a heart attack. So I have sat dormant for four or five years, bounced around from prison to prison. You know, prison life was not good. I had a fight, strong, survived the week, get preyed on. You know, I wasn't going to be the weak person get prayed on. And I lifted weights and I stabbed people. You know, You're forced to live in an environment that you not used
to and people that you hate. And it's just I tell people that I wouldn't wish prison on my worst enemy, you know what I mean. It's hell on earth. Never been in trouble, and here I am got a life bid and I'm like, I don't know when I'm ever going to get out of here.
Were you a tough guy when you went in, Like.
Yeah, I was, you know, yeah, I didn't take no crap, you know what I mean. I wasn't no bowlie or nothing.
But then you're in there, there's a lot of guys bigger and tougher than you.
Oh yeah, there's yeah, there's a lot of tough There's a lot of big guys in there. And I lifted weights, and you know, I lifted a lot of heavyweights. I was big. I won a lot of weightlifting competitions. And we had TVs in the yard and it was I don't know if back in the eighties they had the Phil Downie Who show. I remember on Phil Downey Who Show. Well, there's these two guys on there and their name was Barry Shock and Peter Nufeldt, and they had guys on
there that they got out through DNA. And this was like in ninety four, and my mother watched the same show. So I go, I'm gonna write them a letter. I wrote a twelve pages twelve thirteen page letter explained my whole case toing what happened, you know, and they wrote me back questionnaire. They agreed to take my case. So for a couple of years to get the evidence, they came up, took my blood. We agreed on a lab back in them days, I had to pay for the
lab testing. The Innocent Project was very small. Well, you actually talked to Barry on the phone and it was about to be five six law students from Cordova and it was a real small operation. Operation is not like it does now. I mean it's but they signed to a lab and they had the technology wasn't there. My mother came up and I really thought I was going home, you know, I got all excited and I had about seven years in seven eight years by now, and she came up to visit me and said, I'm sorry, but
the DNA test came back inclusive. Our technology wasn't there like we have now. And plus the way the law enforcement collected evidence back down, you know, it was very sloppy there.
It still is, but.
There's no lot of these cops. They don't you know, they're not. They should train some people how to do evidence and how they handle it, and they put some kind of solution on the slides it breaks down DNA and stuff.
And we still don't have a national standard for storing of this evidence, which is insane. Yeah, we keep the evidence so we can find the guy, right that whoever did this to this poor girl, is this sick, sick predator that needs to be off the streets and in order to someday have a chance to get that guy. You got to save the evidence. I mean, and I'm just talking about your case. I'm talking about every case. So they should additihould absolutely be a standard practice that
everybody has to adhere to. And obviously that wasn't the situation in your case. But go ahead.
Another setback, Yeah, another setback. So got convicted. My lawyer, Dice Peels shot down. Now inconclusive DNA. Now I'm like the hopes. I always tell people my hope, my candle. You know, the flame was like really big, and now the flame was just about out, you know what I mean. I'm like, I'm hitting rock bottom, Like, oh, I'm gonna die in here. I got a life bid. I almost got ten years in I got another fifteen to go just to go to the pro board. If I went to the pro board, I have to meet gilt. I
didn't do this, So I'm gonna die in here. And I didn't have the death penalty. Good thing, because they probably would have executed me. So I always kept study on the law library, and I bounced around from prison to prison. I was in eight or nine different maxes and throughout the state of New York, and I kept busy and I always went to the law library, and I kept up on DNA, you know, and then I followed up on some cases. Guys that were that I did time with were getting out, and I says, and
I remember I reading about DNA. It was a ystr DNA testing. It was real new and touched DNA on that John Benet Rainey case where people touched their clothes they get DNA. So my brother, they had, my younger brother, he drove down to Boston, Massachusetts. They had a conference down there from a Xanderies got out. So he went down and talked to Barry and Peter were there and a couple of Xanneries and he says, told them, you worked on my brother's case like eight nine years ago
and it was inconclusive. Can you maybe relook into it, because you know, technology has come a long way. And so it was probably six eight months later Mattie Delone called a prison I was at in Elmira. Actually the chaplain came to myself and I thought somebody passed away because I lost all my grandparents when I was in prison. And I'm like, oh my god. When the chaplain comes to your cell. You think automatically, think you know there's a death in the family or something bad happen, you know.
But the chaplain said, no, it's good news. You got to call the Innocent Projects. So I called down and they said, Manny Palomes, she said, we're taking on your case. So now I got about seventeen sixteen, seventeen years in almost and I was thinking, I hope they still have the evidence because in my area it's small. They don't have the storage to close rape kits. You know, they just throw your shit in the box, put it on the shelf, you know. After your appeals are done, sometimes
they get rid of it. Well, they started to investigating. They found the evidence, so I had to go through the same process that I went through as years back. So we agreed on the lab and it was almost two years after got the evidence. They come up to they said, were the two investigators from the Sheriff's apartment and a lady from the lab. My staff attorney from the Innocent Project called and said they're gonna come up. They're gonna squab. You don't talk to him, you know,
just do the thing, okay. So they came up. It was beginning of November, like this first week in November of two thousand and eight. I went in and the cops are going, you know, how you doing, Steve. I go, I'm doing good, you know while you're here. I go, yeah, I requested you guys to be here. I wrote Tennison Project and I requested the DNA testing. I go, you guys just didn't wake up one morning and say, you know, Steve Barnes is innocent. We want to get him out
of jail. And they looked at me and he go, no, yeah, you're right. We were here because you know, we worked for the DA's office. I say, yup. So they swabbed me. You know, he did all that and they sealed everything, and I go, how long is it's gonna take? And they said about two weeks. I said, I'll see you in court. I walked out and it was a little over two weeks. It was on Friday night. It was November twenty first. I used to call home, talk to my mother on Friday night and see she was coming
up to visit on the weekend. And she says, the Innocent Project wants you to call. So we locked in at five. It was like four thirty quarter to five, so we had a lock in for child and we came back out at about six six thirty. So my mother ended up calling the Innison Project because I can't get on the phone. So I called my mother after after child, and she said my staff's thirty name was Elba Morale as she's not with the INN Project anymore. But she asked my mother, She goes, it was right
before Thanksgiving, was you know? She asked my mother, what are you gonna do for Thanksgiving? My mother says, uh, I always wish, you know, Steve wouldn't be home for Thanksgiving, because we really have him celebrated a Thanksgiving, her Christmas or any holidays for you know, two decades. And she told my mother said, another dinner played at the table because your son's coming home. And that was another time I cried. But twenty years before that was tears of sadness.
Now I had tears of joy. And I was on the gallery and I dropped the phone and I go, yeah, I'm going home, you know. So that was good Friday, excuse me Friday, and my mother came up. Excuse me, that's Saturday. Next day. And the prison I was in, I was there about six years and the seals knew me and no, my mo you know, she goes my son. You know, the guy's on the raid and he's coming home. So they took me in the court on Monday morning.
It was twenty fourth, November twenty fourth. So when I went to the court, the DA at the time of my trial, the head DA. After my conviction, he got he got elected as a judge. He was running for to be a judge, so they couldn't put me in front of him. And then very shock, he couldn't get a flight out from the city down in the courtroom. So they put me in the county jail for one more night. So I had to go to court on the twenty fifth.
That was a crazy night.
Yeah, so they're like deciding what they do.
I go.
Listen, I was found out on a Friday night on the twenty first that I was innocent. And now I've been in jail on four more days. So they put me in a county jail and every you know, I've been on the news and you know, people are coming up to my cell in the county jail. Yo, man, you know all that time, Oh my god, you know, I could just get away from my cell. I I
just want to chill out. So I didn't really sleep much that night, and I didn't sleep the whole weekend in jail, in prison, and then they brought me to court, you know. And I remember my mother brought up a suit and I'm in the property room. This is I asked to see. Oh, I go, listen, we got a problem. He goes, well, I go, I forgot how to tie a tie. I go, you think you could help me out here? So he did it around his neck and he shook my hand and then they shackled me all up.
You know, court pretty ridiculous when you take it right, you've already been exonerated. What's the point yes or whatever?
Yeah, I know, but you got to be official in front of the judge. So I going. And a social worker from the Innocent Project was there, Angela. She came in in the bullpen and she says to you, I just want to let you know there's like gazillion cameras people. I mean, there's tons of stuff. She goes to me, you walk in there, it's going to be like spotlights.
And I'm like, okay. And I was already exhausted, so they brought me in and all shackled up, and I'm looking around and I'm like seeing people I haven't seen in twenty years. And I'm like, and that's my friend Mark. What happened to him? He's all gray haired, you know. And I'm looking at all my friends that I haven't seen. I'm like, well, the judge says, you know, he's he says, you know about the DNA testing and it's excluded me,
and he vacated my satin. So they they took all the shackles off and you could hear a pin drop in the courtroom when they dropped everything, like and then people were crying and my heart was going like forty miles an hour, and I'm like, man, I was like, I don't have a heart. I'm saying myself, don't have a heart of tank. Now you're going home, you know what I mean? Went through all this for twenty years.
And like so then we had a media friends and you know, they're asking me all these questions and people were showing me what a cell phone was, and we.
Take me back for a second season. So that shackles drop, Oh yes, right, and then what did you turn aroundd.
Just you said you're free to go. And we went into another.
Room and uh, where was your mom doing this?
She was in behind me, sitting behind because I was at a podium with a very shock, and my staff attorney and my mother was in the back row and everybody else that was there.
That is that the first thing you did turn around see your mom.
Or yep, and you know and I and I just looked at the judge and I said I didn't. I was just like in awe, you know what I mean? And so and then the media friends had starting all the questions and then went to a nice restaurant, had a nice meal for the first time.
You know what you have.
I had a steak on a shrimp cocktail. And I remember going up my mother's road where I grew up, and I'm like, wow, places that I hung out were torn down, New places were put up, new houses, different roads. There was a store called the Walmart that I never heard of. The internet. I had to start my life over like a sixteen year old kid. You know what I mean. When they exonerate you, they just drop you off the courthouse. When you get parle from prison, they
give you money an ID card. I didn't have nothing, you know what I mean. I called the prison, my counselor. I asked them to send my SOLI security and all of my records. They go, you can't have them. So I had to get every start over. I had to get ID to get an ID, so I had to get a birth certificate, social Security card, and I got to picture ID. Learn how to drive again, because when I first got in the car years ago, they used
to have the high beam on the floor. Now it's like on a steering wheel, and you got all this high tech stuff digital it was quite different, and technology was hard to deal with the Internet, and then you got into texting and I set up an email and they gave me a job with the county after I got out about six months working with troubled kids, and then I was working for a re entry I would help guys that got out of prison, you know, try
to help find them jobs. And I did that for about five years and then they quit the funding and.
Then, yeah, why would we need any funding to help guys who just got out of prison find jobs? What possible good could that in the world.
It's like, and I worked with troubled kids that you only couldn't make it in the local high schools. They were got of spying out of control.
You know, you got a lot of satisfaction.
Yeah.
I straightened some of them out, but I'd set them down the first when they came to my group and I set them down, I said, listen, I don't care how top you are, what do you think you are, but this is what happened in my life, you know what I mean. And they look at me, well, and everybody knows who I am. I'm a small town you know what I mean.
It's like, did they ever find the guy who did it?
Nope? They put the case on America Most Wanted twice.
Were there any rumors around at the time that this happened?
The new investigators day after I got out, you know, they used to we got me in the DA. They used to call me over all the time, and they had pictures of certain individuals and trucks that was somewhere in mind. They asked me if I knew these persons whatever, and I didn't. And there was a guy that was in prison for he kidnapped the girl, raped her and the cop he threw in the trunk and he went to prison for it and he jumped on and the cops are chasing him. He jumped in front of a
train and chopped his legs off. But he was a person of interest in my case because after I got out, they were running DNA testing people, you know, certain they got leads, people were calling, mentioning names. Well, this certain individual that was in jail with me, they took his DNA and he asked him how long it would take to come back, and they said about almost two weeks, and he committed suicide. Because after I got out, my whole case on my trial, that isn't how it happened.
That was like ah Lie where they found her body, That was not where she was murdered, they said in my trial they said she was murdered, raped and left there, that she was dumped off there. She was at a party with a bunch of individuals. There was males and females there and it was a Satanic worship party. And all this stuff came to light after I got out. Three people called the DA's office admitted they lied. The new investigators tried to call. The old investigators are now
retired living in Florida. They didn't want to return their calls, they wouldn't cooperate with them. They went and seen the off duty cop that testified in my trolley. He said, it's my story and I'm sticking with it, and get out of my house, off my porch.
And isn't it weird that it took that long for all this stuff to come out? These are important facts, right.
And then they had the reports from the original cops. They had leads on certain other people. The cops just pushed them to the side and didn't even look into any of them, didn't even acknowledge them. They just had liners on They go, we want Steve Barnes and that's it. We don't care. People were calling, you know, with leads on someone else. They didn't even follow up on none of it.
Yeah, they call that tunnel vision. And it's so tragic too, because you know, I mean, like the poor girl would happen to her, should never happened to anybody. And the idea that the guy, who actually a person we don't even know who it was, maybe more than one person will never know at this point, was free to just uh, you know, live their life, whether they committed other crimes like this. Again, we will also know that we'll never know that.
Our system is so broken up it's it's insane, you know what I mean. Like since I've been I've been to Albany like at Capital, probably fifteen times, you know what I mean. And I finally about filming interrogations now and how they do photo lineups. I went out with Rebecca Brown in Albany for days on ends. You know, I'd be out there for the whole day talking to these senators and assemblymen's.
And Rebecca Brown is the policy dollar.
She would come to my area and I got involved with my congressman and my assemblymen in my area, and they they were backing me, and they, you know, we find if they had filming interrogation when I went, when I got interrogated back then, it would be a different story.
And isn't it New York State?
Right?
We would think New York State pretty advanced, right, one of the I mean, you know.
We're way behind our mothering states. We're like ten years behind Rhode Island, Connecticut, Jersey, they best laws like this nine years ago.
We still don't have mandatory videotaping of interrogations in New York State. It's unbelievable.
In my County, my DA, he does them all. Yeah, to my case, he decided to.
Well than to his credit. But the idea that we do not have mandatory videotaping of interrogations at this point, it's totally inexcusable. And it's just it's a simple way to reduce the number of wrongful incarcerations and get more right ones. I mean, there's just no explanation of any kind that makes any sense when it comes to that. So let me ask you this thing before we wrap
this up. Then. I know there's a lot of years gone by now too, but is there a worst experience that you want to share with the audience from prison? And also, was there a moment beside the moment when you actually heard that you were going home? Was there another moment that gave you some some sort of joy or you know, a renewed sense of hope.
Well, it was a rough road. I had a lot of ups and downs, and I never had any strong positive things that was gonna you know, after I had the first DNA testing that was inconclusive, it kind of like I didn't know when I was coming home, you know, I thought it was over. I literally gave up hope towards it at one point.
So that was the lowest point. Yeah, but I guess the one thing I wanted to ask, was there one moment of you know, in prison, was there somebody who actually showed you some sort of kindness that wasn't expected.
Yeah? I had a few, you know, there was good cops and bad cops. I had some good officers, you know. I told a couple officers you know my situation. They believed in me. And when I was in prison, I worked with a lot of civilians. I worked maintenance, and I got pretty tight with what few of my civilians, you know, And I told my story. And actually when I was when I got out, the maint and supervisor
gave me his phone numbers. He said, they've called me when you get out, and you're welcome to come to my house. And they always gave me they looked out for me in there.
You know.
He gave me nice jobs and somebody to talk to, you know what I mean. I didn't talk. I had a few guys that hung out with that we worked out together. We had our little crew, you know what I mean. And you just you know, you didn't talk your business with a lot of people. But you just I just they made me. You know, it was having a bad day at my boss. You know, there was you know I should talk with him. You know, he goes, I know you're having a bad day. We won't do
much today or whatever. And when my family came up to visit me, you know, they gave me nice feeling.
And what about I mean, I know you talked about when I saw the video, you talked about being tear gassed, being stabbed, being in fights, being in riots. I mean, was there one experience that you may not want to share it, but if there was, was there one experience that was like the worst of the worst.
It was probably in ninety seven in Green Having Correction facility. I was they were starting to build double bunks and I was a welder and they wanted me to weld double bunk cells and I refused, So I was keep locked and they took us out of our block for keep locked rack. They let you out for one hour a day. And I was an H black lower H and there was one of the other key locked inmates.
The CEOs beat them down. We heard him screaming, and we're lined up in the hall with the sergeant and they said, you guys, take it to the yard and we said, screw you, we ain't moving. You just beat down one of our you know, we're not moving. He said, I'm giving you another order to move, and he said, no, we ain't moving. You know. So in prison we call him Warren's crush. I call him the Ninja Turtles. The
guards with all the pads and right gear. They came marching down the hall and I looked at the guy next to me. I said, this is it. I go do or die? I go, I'll talk to you later. I go on, We're gonna make it out here alive. And they came down and just started wailing on all of you know, and we got pretty well broken up. And they ship me up up north, you know, and I sat in reception and Auburn for like two weeks
without a shower or nothing. They lost my property. You know, I thought it was like I wasn't gonna die there that day. It's probably one of my scariest times in prison, you know, besides the first day I walked in there. You know, when I walked in there one day, I'm unpacking my cell and there's Gey says, hey, why boy, you know you're gonna be my bitch in prison all this I go. No, I took them up ringer and I spun around. I blasted them right side the head
with it, you know what I mean. And that's the way it is. You know what I mean. The strong survive. You know, you can't say, can I think about this and let this guy talk to me? Or take my stuff prison? If you touch me or you touch my stuff, you're gonna get stabbed or you're gonna die, or that's the way it is. You're not gonna get punked down, even though wind lose your draw if you got to stick up for yourself, you know what I mean. If you don't, you know, you're gonna be a chump punk.
This is literally it is. It sounds literally like Shawshank redemption. Yeah, unbelievable.
Yeah, it's just.
For people listening now, they're probably thinking this is horrible, like what happened to you is it's it's a crime against humanity what happened to you? And people listening they're going, what can I do to help? Right? People want to get involved. They're gonna hear your story and it's gonna be that reaction probably plus plus, so what would you say the average person's out there listening in one of the states, out there wherever they listen, or around the world.
What could people do to get active to help with this situation.
Well, I always tell people were in my area and stuff that Unison project. They gave me my life back, you know what I mean. Yeah, you don't realize people don't really really look about, you know, the daily life. You know, little things in life like going to the store, going here. In prison, you're like a programmed person. You know.
You get up at a certain time every morning, you're told what to do, twenty four to seven, do your after year, you know, And I tell people, you know, I didn't know it would take twenty years to prove my innocence because I thought I'd be out after a couple of years. But days turn into weeks, weeks turns into months, months turning into years, and years turning into decades of loneliness. You know.
But but you didn't give up when you had every reason to give up.
Freedom is a lot to me now, you know, like years ago. You know, when you're on the street growing up, you don't think you know everyday life. But when you you're swept away and your life's taken away, and then you get your life back. But I just want to say I would donate to the Innocent Project, you know, because there's what happened to me. There's hundreds of guys after me. I've been out almost ten years next year, and I was number two hundred and twenty seventh in
the country. Now they're up to three hundred and fifty something. And I was twenty four in New York State. Now they're up to thirty something.
You know.
I mean, what happened to me, it can happen to anybody, and it happens all the time. I mean, there's hundreds of guys in prison there worse off to me, did a lot more time to me. But you know, the Innocent Project needs money, you know, it's carry on with this, you know what I mean. Like my testing loan in my case was fifty thousand dollars, you know what I mean.
And I want to point out something too, Steven, You're a perfect example of this. The legislative changes right and the procedural changes that the INSCE Project has been behind, and compensation statutes like in Kansas where we finally just got a compensation statute passed. Right, you know, these changes are seismic shifts, and these are This is the macro side of the work, right. The micro side is you, even though nothing micro about you. You're a big guy,
but you know. But the microside is the individual cases. The macro side is where a lot of your dollars go. If you donate to the Innocesce project like I do, like Steve does, you know your money is going to affect change that may actually impact you or your community or somebody you love in a very real way. Because when these changes are made, the odds of you know, you, yourself or a loved one becoming the next Stephen Barnes
go down dramatically. And we're not going to stop. We're just going to keep going and going until we make this system as close to perfect as it can be. It'll that would be perfect, but we can we can make a lot, a huge difference.
A lot of changes for the better.
And we are doing that. And now now you're you've got a lot of stuff going on, right, I mean, now you've been out.
For a while, your you're nine years, you're.
Living your best life now.
Living to dream yup. I tell people I get up every morning late Christmas morning, you.
Know, Steven, we have a tradition here at Rafel Conviction. Yes, I think people really look forward to this part of the show because this is the part where I shut up and I basically just turned the microphone over to you so you can close out with any thoughts you want.
All right. I just want to say, after all these, all these twenty years that I did in prison, I finally got my life back. And I can't say it enough thanks to you know, some project. They believed in me, they fought for me, they reopened my case, and they gave me my life back. I didn't have a life for twenty years, you know, I had a couple lot of hole and I just I'm so happy and what happened to me, it probably happened to a lot of other people I know, but I hope it doesn't continue
to happen in the future. And I just hope that between me and people on the outside world continue to donate in this project and help free the innocent and try to better the system, because our system, you know, since I've been out ten years, it's come a little ways, but it's still broken and we need people like all of us exigneries get together to change laws, and the Innocent Project and people on the street to contribute and help us hold you know, just freedom act to you know,
progress on. And you know, I've been out nine years. It feels like I've been out for a lot longer. When I was in prison for all them twenty years, it was like days dragged, you know. I mean, out here so much to do. I can't even imagine how to explain my freedom, you know. And my freedom is like so awesome. Now I can do what I want,
come and go as I please. I don't have nobody telling me what to do, what time to go to bed, what time to eat, you know, turn your light off, wake up at this time, you know what I mean. When I first got out, I took a walk in the woods, you know, breathing fresh air, enjoying life. It's just I'm having a lot of fun now. And I just want to thank the Innocent Project and I want to thank you for having me on the show. And I look forward to living a great future. I hope
I live to be another fifty six years. I don't have any stress anymore. I'm just I'm on top of the world.
Now, well, that's awesome, and you know, you know, I want to wish you all the luck in the world. And I'm going to thank you again for coming in and being here with us and sharing your story.
Thank you for having me.
Don't forget to give us a fantastic review.
Wherever you get your podcasts.
It really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject dot org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction
and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flahm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one