America has two point two million people in prison. If just one percent is wrong, that's twenty two thousand people. That's a lot of people's lives destroyed.
If the system want to take you out of society, they will do it no matter what laws they have to break, saying that they are enforcing the laws, but they're breaking the lord.
Having to hear those people say that I was guilty of a crime that I did not commit, and then hear my family break down behind me and not be able to do anything about it. I can't describe the crushing weight that was.
I'm not anti police, I'm just anti corruption.
A lot of times we look and we see something happen to somebody, and that's the first thing we said, that could never happen to me, but.
They can.
This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. Today, I have a truly extraordinary guest, a gentleman named Malcolm Alexander, who was released from prison three weeks ago after serving almost thirty eight years for a crime he did not commit.
Louisiana. Inmate is a freeman this afternoon, after he was clear of a rape that happened back in nineteen seventy nine, a state judge throughout a fifty eight year old and Malcolm Alexander's conviction after defense attorneys argue that Alexander's trial lawyer failed to point out the victim has been doubtful when she identified him. Alexander spent thirty eight years at Angola for the crime.
Malcolm, welcome to the show, thank you, And with him today is his son, Malcolm Junior, who is forty years old. He was two at the time that his father was sent away. So Malcolm Junior, welcome to Ron for Conviction. Thank you, and we have a return visit from one of Malcolm's extraordinary lawyers at the Innocence Project, Vanessa Popkin, who is the director of post conviction Litigation. Vanessa, welcome back, Thank you for having me.
Great to be here.
So, Malcolm, I want to go back to the beginning, before this whole insane saga started. Let's go back to where you grew up and how you grew up and what your life was like as a child as a young man.
Well, very simple, sir, played sports. I enjoyed biking, done a lot of fishing.
What kind of sports I mean You're a pretty big guy, look like you might to play some football.
Yes, sir, he played a lot of football. Came up from junior high to high playing football, went to Jo and Eric Worley Middle School, and I left from Worley Middle School, went to West Jefferson High. Left from West Jefferson High, went to Joe and Eric. And after that, I guess, said, I just went into the working world.
What were you working at?
Well, I had separate jobs. It was like once I worked for International Tank Terminal, I worked for a fleet company. I worked for Golf Central Railroad.
There's a lot of jobs for a guy who was still just a teenager really at the time. Right, you had your son, Malcolm, who's sitting here at Malcolm Junior sitting here with you. Know you had him when you were very young.
Yes, sir, I had him actually when I was still in uh high school. And that's the kind of the reason why I had all the job because I was playing football plus working at the same time.
Right, So you had a very busy life. We had a good life, yes, sir, And you got a great son out of it, who's now a man, thank you. Obviously grew up without his father and of course. Now I got to just get this out. You have a grandson, Malcolm.
The third, Yes, sir, when he is twenty.
It's amazing. Your grandson is twenty, which is the same age that you were.
When I got your calcerators when you were locked up.
It's unbelievable. I mean, that really gives a sense of the timeline and going back when we were talking nineteen eighty like who is president? When you were locked up?
Ooh, I think we were doing could a time.
Jimmy Carter was the president. Wow, that does give a sense of how long ago it really was. So how did this happen? And let me turn to Vanessa for a second. Can you take us through how this began and why it was allowed to continue when there were so many obvious signs that he wasn't the guy?
Sure.
In nineteen seventy nine, a woman was minding an antique shop that she had just opened when a black man that she had never seen before came into the store and basically attacked her from behind at gunpoint. Took her into a small bathroom in the back of the store, where he sexually assaulted her twice and then fled.
And this was the rape of a brutal rape of a white woman by a black mail in the Deep South in nineteen seventy nine. And we'll get into the fact that there was a cross racial identification or misidentification, which we know is a huge problem because scientific study after study have proven that our memories are totally fallible. In this case, the identification was made four and a half months after the crime, right, and good luck try to remember what you were doing four and a half
months ago or any details of that. But then when it's a cross racial identification, of course the odds of a correct result go down dramatically. And this had all of those factors, right, that's right.
The victim in this case was attacked in an antique store that she had just opened. It was early in the day, and a man came in with a gun. Most of the attack happened from behind, and it was at gunpoint. We know weapon focus is also a big issue in misidentifications because when a crime happens with the weapon, people tend to look at the weapon, not the person who's holding the weapon, and really be focused on what's
happening there. So the assailant came into the store armed and the victim was held at gunpoint throughout the entire attack, and then the perpetrator fled, so she had a very limited opportunity to see the person who did this, and over four months went by with no identification made or
no suspect in the case. Unfortunately, in March of nineteen eighty, Malcolm Alexander had a consensual relationship with a white woman and it turned out that she was a sex worker and wanted money from him, and when he didn't give her the money, she made a false allegation of rape, and the.
Charge was immediately smith. It was not pursued at all.
Absolutely the police found no cooperation, they didn't pursue it. But the lead officer who responded to that case had also been the lead officer on the nineteen seventy nine rape in the antique store, and so when Malcolm Alexander came in and told police exactly what happened and made a statement, the officer said, hmm, and this is in
the reports. You know, there was something about him that reminded him of the previous incident that by now had been unsolved for you know, just about four months from our take. The only thing that's similar between both incidents is that the victim was white.
Otherwise they were completely different, and.
The perpetrator was black. Correct, Well, there was no perpetrator in the ones. In both cases it was a sexual event, what do you want to call it, between a black male and a white woman. But other than that, there is one was consensual, one was not. There's no similarity. That was just a terrible coincidence that happened to put Malcolm in the crosshairs of the right.
I guess coincidence or racism on the part of the investigating officer both both and once he was put into the photo ray, then the factors that you were discussing before kick in, and you know, this is nineteen eighty and the lead detective is administering the photo ray, which we know today by best practices, is not how it
should be done. That should be a blind lineup where the person conducting the array doesn't know who the suspect is, so they can't intentionally or unintentionally convey cues to the eyewitness as to who to pick. But the victim, she picked him out tentatively and said she wanted to see him again in person. So three days later they did an in person lineup, and Malcolm was the only person from the photo or ray who was repeated in the in person lineup.
Right, which again is going to be a very suggestive protocol. Malcolm, what was going on in your head? Because here you are one day, you're working on several jobs, you're playing sports, you're raising your family, and you get arrested. Did you even know about this crime? Had you heard anything about it? Was it talked about in the neighborhood.
No, sir. And actually when I was approached about it, I volunteered to go to the lineup because I was actually sitting in the parish waiting to get out on bill. And when they approached me about this crime here, and they asked me what i'd be willing to appear in front of a lineup. I know I hadn't done anything, you know, as far as in that case there, but they talking about someone else, said that I may have raped them, But all the time I know I hadn't raped anyone in the beginning.
And then she picked you out of the lineup, That's what I was told. Oh so you weren't even made aware of it at that time, no, sir. So what happens next?
All right.
I think it was the next day that came back and booked me on something like this. Here. The attorney that I had with me at the lineup, his name was Ralph Burnett, and I wound up dismissing him. He was another pee attorney who asked the question to me, do I go around raping on white women? So I had to dismiss him or called my parents and explain to my parents what was happening. And I guess to
let him know that he would fied. And that's when we went and got Joe Toash with the way, the fact that Joe Tash and Robert Burnett was actually working out the same office.
Oh, I didn't even know that, no, sir, I mean that sounds like an office from hell. Because this guy Tosh was one of the most incompetent and even evil characters that the American Bar Association has a level ever allowed to become a lawyer. How he became a lawyer in the first place is a mystery, but the fact is that he was later disbarred for such egregious misconduct or whatever you want to call it, malfeasance and competence.
And in your case, it actually bears read because it defies the imagination to see what is possible in our criminal justice system. And I'm going to read something here. He repeatedly failed to appear in court, missing both the arraignment and the sentencing. That alone is giving me the chills. It's just shocking. I mean, how can a lawyer not show up? It's just I mean, and there and there you are probably wondering, where's my lawyer at right? Yes, sir, now,
as anybody would be. Okay, let's take a second here. He also failed to file important and basic pleadings with the court. He never challenged the circumstances of the identification, which would be lawyering one oh one Vanessa. Absolutely the list goes on. He did not prepare an opening statement, failed to properly cross examine witnesses, sometimes asking no questions at all, and gave just a four page closing argument and then, as if to put an exclaim nation point
on this whole nightmare scenario of American jurisprudence. Despite explicitly telling Malcolm and his family that he would appeal to the decision, he never did so. This is hard, probably for a lot of people to believe that in a situation in which literally your life is in this guy's hands if because you were facing and ultimately were given a sentence of life at hard labor with no possibility
of parole. And this guy didn't even bother to do things that any first year law student would have done. And it's a terrible failure that nobody steps in, and there's got to be someone who's going to go, wait, this is not okay, and that should have happened in your case. There should be some check and balance where when an attorney fails so terribly it doesn't take years and years and years and then wait for the guy to get this barred after he screws over so many
other people too. I mean, God knows the trail of destruction and misery that he left. How many more Malcolm Alexander's are out there that had the terrible misfortune and not only be wrongfully accused and arrested for something and charged, but then to be represented misrepresented by this small evil man. This is America. This shouldn't happen. So how long did you have to wait for your trial to start?
Think about three months? Because it was a time that I actually went to Jackson Mississippi for the criminal in saying for a little while, trying to buy time to get a lawyer to investigate the case, because at some point in there he was explaining to me about the date that the crime happened on, and then by the time I made it back then he were telling me about it happened on another date and at the time I was working, so we was trying to establish me an alibi, my family and us to get with my
boss to show the lawyer because he really wouldn't do and know what we call laid work, and the information he was kind of like giving us about the case wasn't really never measuring up because we discovered that after
him constantly saying the date was offed. So we just couldn't necessarily afford to go and get another lawyer just like that, and I had made a decision about had actually having my own paid attorney, So just one thing led to another, and I just wound up sticking with him and my boss who I was working for doing contract work with, like what's going on? His question asked he was the lawyer actually saying the date that it happened on that the Pacific date because he had wanted
to come to cold and testify that much. We did run by the lawyer, but there was something that he just never follow up on.
So your boss, who would have been probably a very believable witness as somebody who was a successful businessman employing people like yourself, I never got the chance to get understand and tell people where you really were that day exactly. And were you aware at this time that this lawyer was really selling you down the river?
No, sir, not really, because I went into the system trusting it, not believing that you know, they actually can find me guilty or he got allow me to be found guilty or something I didn't do. And I considered, once all the facts is actually known about the case, you know, it would prove that I didn't do it.
That seems to be common thread, right. You believe from the beginning that the system would work for you because you knew that you weren't there, You weren't the guy, and in fact, he didn't even match the description as it turns out exactly. But it felt that every step of the way, and there were so many things that just one thing could have gone right and would have changed the whole outcome of this thing, but instead everything
went wrong. So the day of the trial comes and you're still believing that a jury is going to hear the facts and they're going to recognize that there's a big, big mistake. Then you're going to go home to your family, Yes, sir, So what was that day? Like?
Well, I'm sitting there, me and my family and a lawyer and let's see, I'm listening to him call witness who testifying as to well this investigating this way we was calling here, calling it and then getting like a narraror of the events that it was taking place and surround the crime, whereas going to the sea collecting evid dance. And then we got over to the doctor where they
brought her to the hospital. Then we went to the doctor who examined her, and he gave his findings and stuff like this hell and somewhere in there he's more or less repeating thanks what she said, more than actually gave his expert analysis of the test results and stuff like that. But I'm listening to all this show, but nothing actually is pointing the thing at me. Till we got to the shour final stage when we went to
talking about identification. So I'm saying, well, this the only thing they're talking about is identification that actually connected me with this. We had no other witness, no nothing, I mean, no fingerprints, no blood tests, nothing but identification. So I'm saying, all right, let's see.
And the less of the fact that the only evidence against him was I w this identification months and months after the fact. Had you been representing him, what would you have done, well, I.
Would have challenged the idea. I mean, there was a lot that the lawyer could have done based on the actual facts of the case. The fact that the victim did not have a good opportunity to view the assailant, that the attack happened from behind, that the assailant had a gun to the victim's head throughout most of the attack, and like Malcolm said, there was just a very vague description of the assailant, you know, just basically general height,
general appearance, race, but you know, nothing specific. And the victim's identification came over four months after the crime happened. In these suggests of of identification procedures where he was repeatedly shown to the victim, And what's most important is that the second time the victim was shown Malcolm was in this live lineup, and even that second time through that suggestive procedure, she was not positive that he was
the assailant. Her identification was documented as pow and tentative, and that was the lineup report that was prepared by the officer who conducted the identification procedure.
What happened to the guilty beyond all reasonable doubt thing, Well.
That is just not what happened here.
I mean, it's just it's so enraging, as you said, to listen to this story and to kind of relive it again with Malcolm, because here he is twenty years old. His life is at stake, right, He's gonna be sentenced to life with no possibility parole, which is the mandatory sentence in Louisiana for aggravated rape, which just means any type of rape with force. And so he's on trial for his life and his lawyer's not doing anything. I mean, imagine your first lawyer says to you, do you like
raping white woman? It's like, who that's your defender, that's supposed to be your advocate against the government coming after you with all of the resources that it has to prosecute you for this crime, and then he goes to trial and his trial lasts one day. In one day, they pick a jury, have opening statements, present all of the evidence, I mean not opening statements by Malcolm's lawyer, but the state. They present all of the state's case.
The defense doesn't call a single witness. The jury deliberates and returns a verdict. You know, by six pm. It's insane.
How was that justice?
Yeah, one day You're really right to put that in very stark, you know light, because one day that's what Malcolm's life was worth to pretty much everybody in that courtroom, right, even his defender. He didn't want to be bothered. Obviously, he didn't show up, He didn't do any research, he didn't call any witnesses, he didn't do anything that he was supposed to do. And I know, I keep harping
on that because it's madness. And then, like you said, one day and everybody go home and go get something eat and watch the news and go to sleep or whatever they do, right, and he goes off to prison for the rest of his life. And it takes thirty eight years to unravel this disaster and to bring him back home to where he belongs. I want to get to you in a minute, Malcolm Junior, because I mean you were you were just a baby at the time.
Were you were even aware of any of this stuff? No, because you were between two and three while this was taking place. Right, Who took care of you during this time?
Between my mom and grandmother and grandfather and my mom mom, So all my grandmothers, my mom my ain'ties.
They all stepped up.
And how difficult was it for you? I mean was there a stigma attached to it? Did other kids have an idea that your dad was in prison? And what did that mean? And how difficult was it?
Well, none of the kids knew. I didn't even know in the beginning. But as I got older, that's when I became aware of. You know, when we'll go see him When I'm young, I'm wondering why he can't come with me, you know.
When you would go visit him in Gola.
Yes, when I go visit him in Goolo.
So, like I said, going there from two years old, growing up going there, and as I got old, I'm like, he's asked my grandma, like Ma, why my daddy can't come?
You know? So she'll be like he come in, he just can't come right now.
So then as I got older, it's like, oh, this is jail, Like my dad in jail. So because then nobody actually fully told, like sat down and told me, your dad is in jail, so I just had to as I got older, figured out on my own and and then it's like what my dad in jail for? You know, So I'm getting bits and pieces. And then as I got older, I understood they talked to him like like my uncles and my aunts and everybody, like everybody in the neighborhood like, man, your dad ain't do that,
you know. Once I got up in age and they're talking about the case, like your dad will never do nothing like that. All they have to do is race calls and play football and things like that. So I never felt any you know, far as not believing that he didn't do it, because everybody that ever knew him always had something positive to sell bottom and that.
You know, they wronged him, and you know, things like that.
So you don't seem well, both of you, neither one of you seemed angry. I mean, did at any point did you become angry at the system because you knew that your dad was in this. And we've seen different cases, we've interviewing people on the show where their children actually thought they were guilty because they were told that the father was guilty or their mother. But how did you process that? I don't know. I feel like I would have been very angry.
Yeah, yeah, I was mad growing up with your dad not there and he missing your life and you get to them folks in a row. You be neat your dad in the house and that father figure. So he always was in my life talking to me over the phone, but that's not him in the presence of being there to be able to put his foot down in things that when I'm getting out the way with my mom or doing things I shouldn't be doing.
You definitely need your dad there. So, yeah, I was mad.
Let's go back to the trial day. There's this one day trial and now it's getting to be late afternoon, early evening. Jury goes out. They deliberated I think for less than an hour, right, yeah, less than an hour. Yeah, they come back. Did you believe at this point, having now seen the whole day's proceedings, and you get a sense when you're in that room, you sort of make some eye contact with the jurors and whatnot, right, what was going through your mind? And what was that moment like.
When they came back into the coat room. The honest it is like a toss up because the lawyer really didn't say much in my defense. I'm trying to give you an idea of how it worth for me. Really, I can say it back then as opposed to how I see it now. It makes me, you know, because I really realized, you know, a lot, that he didn't do it all right. But it was like, is this really happened? To be honest with you, I couldn't really
believe that it actually was taking place. They actually couldn't believe that we had got this fall with it.
Right, because you should have never even been on trial in the first place. We know that now, yes, sure, well, I don't want to minimize the idea of three months in jail waiting your trial. But had it resolved at that point, you could have gone on with your life and piece things back together, maybe gotten your job back and gone back to raising your family, et cetera. But then there was that moment when they announced their verdict.
It was shocking.
It was hurting because I remember my mother busting out crying, my sister started crying, and my daddy just had that look on his face. Yeah, I can't even remember even if the lawyer said everything gonna be all right or not and all, I can't even remember that because really was paying attention more to my family then, because, like you see, thinking now, I realized when I got found guilty, they got found guilty, it just was more than just me.
They was finally guilty. And once I actually stepped out there present, that's when I started crying. That's when they really sit in and affect me. I try to remain strong for them at that time.
And then not too long after that, I guess you were taking off to what is one of the worst prisons anywhere in the world, really in Gola, and it's really a sleigh plantation. And in fact, from what I understand, you were actually made to pick cotton in the beginning, right, which is an image that is just mind blowing.
Yes, sir, Yes, when I got there, we're still picking cotton, we're still picking ochres, we are still picking corn, very the vegetable and didn't have a tool what they call a hole. Actually it was a tree branch with a piece of mellow on the end that we was using to straight the roads with.
A tree branch with a piece of metal on the en de scrape the roads. Yes, sir, so it's pretty much like a chain gang.
More or less. And only think about it. We didn't actually have the change us. We had the gut and goss and everything, and a certain perimeter we had to stay within.
Here, you are an innocent man, take it away from your family and your life and everything else, put into this basically hell on earth. How did you manage to persevere? What kind of strength does it take to deal with almost four decades in that environment knowing the whole time that you're innocent.
Well, most people when they go into the institution that discover they try to adjust to the institution. But it got pocketed inside the institution that is educational and positive and by me actually off the way has work. When I was in the free world and going into that type of environment field work and stuff like that, it was kind of like readjusting. And I know it always was a place that I didn't want to be, that I shouldn't have been in the first place. So it
was a question is what can I do? How can I maintain that actually it will help me to get out of here. And like I always tell people getting mad, they're gonna solve the problem. I was somewhat angry in the beginning because I know I wouldn't be here it's common,
but that didn't solve my problem. So during my appeal stage and once it was over with and went into my post conviction, we had this lawyer who actually suggested, because we had to go in and hire and another lawyer to do the thing, we actually had this other lawyer who suggested to me my parents that I could
file my own post conviction. So from that and when my parents mentioned that to me and said that, the lawyer said, well, you could take time out by you being that and learning the law and do your own post conviction and stuff like that. And I didn't even get mad about that because it's the truth, you know, that's started me, That's started me into pursuing my freedom on my own.
And how did you find out about the Innocence Project?
Right, one of the prison magazines that I had received had the Innocent Project address and information and on it.
So you just sent off a letter and then and then how did you find out? Did you get a letter back saying we're going to take your case?
Yes, I did. I did receive it, and it actually brightened me, to be honest with you, because I have tried hard to contact other organizations and trying to get them interested in my case.
And Malcolm Junior, how where were you during this time of this stuff? Did he call you and say, hey, guess what, I got some great news? Or you must have been trying everything you could do as well to help him because you knew he was innocent. He's your dad, and I could see you love him so well.
Yeah, I had got a couple of lawyers myself once I got up in age and went to making money.
Ain't nothing he called for.
I didn't try, you know, we was trying to investigators, trying this. Go talk to this one, you know what I mean, putting my money up, me and my grandmother, go and get this lawyer, that lawyer. So it's whatever he needed. I was there and was willing to do whatever it takes to try. But when he called and said, hey man, they found some evidence. Because he had been writing down there to Jefferson Parish for years and years
and years with no evidence. When he called and said and they say they found some evidence, and we were like, oh, yeah, you know, we were just very excited about that. And then also when he said that the Innocent Project's going to take the case again, he said, man, were good, We're straight.
I'm a bea there. And this was just in the beginning.
We were just so happy about that, you know, just I was very happy and please.
Yeah, Vanessa, back to you. So originally, when the in this project got involved, the evidence was nowhere to be found, right, So.
You know, Malcolm really reached out in the early days of our history. And in nineteen ninety six we started working on his case and a law student reached out to the court clerk's office that was supposed to have all the trial exhibits, and I think it was in an earlier day of honesty, got a letter back saying we inadvertently destroyed all of the evidence.
We shouldn't have. It was a mistake.
Today they probably would have just said, yeah, has lost we can't find it, but they actually copped to the fact that they had destroyed it.
Just a couple of years after his.
Trial, you know, while he was still on post conviction, So there was seeman evidence that had been left that we could have tested, but it had been destroyed. And so we because we were just focused at the time on DNA cases, we closed out Malcolm's case. But he didn't give up, you know, he kept on filing motions. He kept on, as Malcolm Junior said, reaching out to
the officials in Jefferson Parish. And so his persistence paid off in twenty thirteen when they responded to him and said, actually, even though all of that evidence that the courthouse had been destroyed, there was some hairs that had been collected from where the victim was raped, and those had been kept at the lab.
So they found this envelope that would turn out to be the key to his freedom.
Are there rules for the safe guarding and the storing safe storing of evidence from cases around the country.
So, unfortunately, there are no uniform rules. Some states have preservation laws that require evidence to be held onto but in some states it's perfectly fine to destroy evidence after a direct appeal.
So that's something that has to be changed.
I mean, how can we have somebody in prison and destroy evidence that could one day.
You know, show that we got it wrong.
We know that.
Technology constantly evolves, so there's just no reason to be destroying biological evidence that could cut to the truth.
In a case, it could.
Not only prove that the person that's in there is a Roman, but could also show who the right one is and then do society a big favor by getting that predator off the streets. So back to you, So now here it is again, like I said, I mean, what a roller coaster ride, because after sixteen long years, you get the golden ticket, so to speak. Right, the
innocent spot is taking your case. Then you get the huge disappointment finding out that the evidence, which is what you need in order to be able to prove what you know, is gone. That would be the time when it would have been convenient for you to just say, you know what, I give up. I can't. I mean, who can. The highs and lows are insane. But seventeen more years you persisted until one day twenty and thirteen, after thirty three years, and even that's five years ago
now because we're in twenty eighteen. Obviously it's remarkable. I mean it says a lot about you. I don't know who could do that. You're doing this hard time and the best way that you possibly can right, yes, doing positive things, staying close with your family, fighting to prove your innocence. And then three weeks ago on January thirtieth, twenty eighteen, almost thirty eight years a lifetime. Okay, yeah, let's just process that. What was that day? Like?
No, so I actually was in the coat room when I found out, and really I was fighting back to tales. It almost went you. I got them staying I went you a life a denial And when I say, like Eric Corner, that I would turn no matter whether I was writing or even wrong, I just was say right because I knew I was writing on the right trio. I was always constantly being told that you know it's wrong, it's not going to happen. You know, we deny you, we deny you, we deny you, and be honest with you.
My true freedom date the date that I knew that I truly was going to get out, when Miss Vanessa actually believed in me being innocent, and she always told me then that she'll be with me to the end. And if I told the people such as it just it's remarkable, irreplaceable. That's when I believe that I was gonna get out.
That's when you believed, and that's a very powerful statement. But then you went to court and this is the opposite. Now right now, we're thirty eight years later. Family's there, Yes, Sir Malcolm Junior. Were you there that day? Yes, and you were there, Vanessa right.
It was actually an incredibly stressful day because we had done DNA testing in Malcolm's case, and as of July twenty seventeen, we had some indications from the prosecutor's office that they were recognizing that this was an erroneous conviction and would potentially be moving with us to vacate the conviction. But it was seven excruciating months of getting to that point, and even as of the morning of January thirtieth, we were not certain that they were going to vacate the conviction.
So when Malcolm says he learned that he was being exonerated in court, he really did, because we didn't know as of that morning what was going to happen. And it was incredible pressure because Malcolm was in court, he had been waiting on the quote unquote one yard line for seven months. His entire family was there, and we didn't know whether they were going to agree or ask for more time.
Okay, so now back to you. Welcome. Okay, so you're there, Vanessa, stretch and out. I know the family's got to be on ten right stress level. And you're there. You've seen everything now, yes, sir, So what happened? How did it come down?
Oh? How you will say waking up from a coma? I mean it was like it happy to be alive. I mean everything that I actually ever went through preparing myself for this one day, it was all worth it. I mean, keeping clear, not getting there any trouble, learn as much as I can learn, I mean, just preparing myself to one day actually returning to society. When she finally said that see I touched it my immediate release, Yeah, it was like, did you mean, like did she really
say immediate rely? Because I'm thinking him I had to go back to ant Gorla. I thought you were going to send me back to ant Gorla.
But uh so those were the words the judge said. There was some arguments back and forth whatever, and then the judge said, what I mean.
It's unfortunately not what you would want it to be in every way because you want the state to say on the record, We're sorry you want the judge to publicly acknowledge all that has been robbed from Malcolm and
his family who were there in court. And while everyone was cordial and the conviction was vacated, it certainly it wasn't what he was owed at that moment, but he was getting out and so there was a big sense of joy, and his mom was in the courtroom and probably twenty or thirty family members at least.
Wow, that must have been a raucous And what did you do? Did you turn around and did you jump for joyed?
I stayed pretty comb I stayed pretty cone I do. How can I explain it? It's just the institution of life. It prepares you for moments like that. It's kind of like it don't take your spirit, but it makes you live a harder life.
Not your emotions so much. Yes, sir, well, let me get the family perspective from Malcolm Junior. Because you're sitting there in the courtroom with the twenty or thirty family members how many it is, but it's your dad. There's nobody closer to Malcolm in the courtroom than you because yours blood. So what was your reaction and what was the family's reaction. I mean, did you even believe it?
I tell you what, we jump for joy. You know, we were very excited and we was, like she said, it was a she. We were sitting there just waiting and waiting and we didn't know if it was going to happen that day.
But when it did, yeah.
We we just jumped and clapped and laughed and cried with every you know, just surreal. I just couldn't believe that they had came. So yeah, we was excited, very excited.
And then did you just walk right out into the daylight? And where did you go?
Went down to booking. I had to have a change of clothes and everything, and they had to like process me out and from that, yeah, I had to sign some release paper and then they let me go. They finally let me go.
Was it an hour or three hours? How long did that whole process take?
I think about an hour and a half.
And everybody was there waiting for you when you came out and walked down the steps like in the movie or something like.
That, And that was the true exciting moment. Beautiful. It was a beautiful day, sun was out and everything. I had a nice little breeze blowing. I would remember that. I mean it was beautiful. All of them was out there waiting on me, standing and welcome me. I mean that's you remember. You'll think. I remember just when the judge said, you know, reverse free and stuff like that. But to actually step out into society, into the free world and breathe again and not worry about all that prisent life.
Where did you go?
I went to the Innocent Project, off a little indwl and give her an interview, you know, said hello, thanks to everyone there more or less. Then turn around and when got me something to eat? I actually, when got me some seafood? Actually said there and enjoyed it. Did we use some fried bread, didn't I?
Yeah?
He did. Some of the wife had cook some that late that night.
My son's wife make a fried bread that my mother told her to me that I grew up on eating. And uh, she made me some fried breed and I always wanted to eat me some homemade fried bread.
Oh, some fride red okay. And the seafood. I can't imagine how good that takes after thirty eight years of no seafood. Right, they don't give you any seafood and ain't gold.
Are they, No, sir, not like you would think. It was really more like fish paddies and if you actually get to ever see a shrimp and all, you know, like the probably say falling between Yeah, I hear that.
Do you have a memory from those almost four decades in prison? Was there a worst moment from all the time you were locked up?
Yes, sir, actually witness and really experience a lot of not caring like I see to be in a place where that's truly no emotions being showed. Everybody likes smothering the actually the way they feel and walking around as you know, I'm not to be touched, I'm not to even be spoken to. Is it's a kind of nerve setting troubling me and you really want to get out of here. You want to find a way to get away from that. It's not a society as this society.
It's a society where it don't breathe criminal It just takes the It strips you up your emotions, It makes you suppress your emotion and then you replacement.
I don't care.
I mean it was probably a numbing routine of just one day after another week's bleeding into months bleeding into years, bleeding into decades. But was there in that routine? Was there one day of the week that was better? Was there a day when there was any any differentiation?
Well, not necessary.
Oh wait, just on a Friday that we realized once we get off that Friday, we really had the next two days to relax, two dates.
For ourself because you didn't have to work, that.
We didn't have to work, And that's kind of like became a lot. Hour was special day. I was privileged day that we actually went to work and worked the five days for the weekend for them, two days to relax, just.
Like being on the outside, with the difference being that in an goal, you're making somewhere between two cents and twenty one cents an hour, right, yes, sir, Yeah, because we've heard about how they pay some people four cents and keep two cents as attacks. So now you're here in New York and you know, obviously we're super happy to have you here and seeing the sights and running around like a movie star or something like that, right, going to shows and restaurants and whatnot. It must be
just a surreal experience all the way around. Does it seem like a dream.
It does because everything I had explained that I would like to do and see I'm actually having an opportunity to do it. I never actually had opportunity to week now, and none that I have been afforded. It's just like really a dream coming true. Even flying on the plane was my first experience every in life.
Well, that's going to be a trip before we wrap up, and I want to give everybody a chance to say some last words, and I'll start with you and Essa. I hope you'll talk a little bit more about the problem with cases in which I would identification is the only evidence, and how people should approach that when they're called to be on a jury, and how they should interpret that, especially in a case like this where it's across racial identification.
Absolutely.
You know, we know so much more today about the problems with memory and eyewitness identification, and it is the leading cause of wrongful convictions in the DNA cases in Louisiana right now. Unfortunately, they have not adopted reforms that we know could lead to a reduction in mistaken eyewitness identifications.
And so that's an effort of the Innocence Project and Innocence Project New Orleans to try to make sure that Louisiana adopts reforms that could reduce wrongful convictions based on misidentification, and just in general, you know, we should take a step back in the criminal justice system and say, you know, are we willing to send people to prison based on
an eyewitness identification alone that has no cooperation? I mean, what do we do in those cases where the only piece of evidence is an eyewitness identification, a piece of evidence that we know is very unreliable.
So we need to enact reforms.
When people are our juries, they should, you know, really understand that even though this type of evidence is convincing. You know, if you have an eyewitness who points the finger and says that's the person who raped me.
They may believe it.
They probably genuinely believe it, and they've come to believe it, but that doesn't mean that it's right and mistaken. Eyewitness identification happens at alarming rates, and we have to look at the conditions under which the identification was made. We have to look at the process under which the identification was made and make sure that it wasn't suggestive. And we need to rethink about indigen defense in this country.
I mean, Malcolm did hire a lawyer, but the lawyer he hired was based on very limited means.
I'm glad you brought up the thing about the indigen defense because you talk about a broken system. Last year in New Orleans, the fifty two public defenders handled approximately twenty thousand cases, so that, if you do the simple math, is about four hundred cases per person per lawyer, and courts are closed on the weekends, so that means they were processing. And I'd say processing because there's really more processing than representing one and a half clients per day.
So when you really think about it, what kind of time did they have to spend? And in fact, the head of the Public Defenders Association down there, I forgot what it's called, actually refused to let his lawyers handle any felony cases until he gave him more lawyers because he's said, I'm not going to just process people into prison. It's a very principled stand. I think they ended up giving him like eight or nine more lawyers. I mean, it's a drop in the bucket, but at least it's
a little bit better. But yeah, that's the system that we're in, and as long as we're in that system, there's going to be another Malcolm Alexander every day, every hour. You just don't have a shot. You don't have a shot. So before we get to the star of our show, for the closing thoughts, Malcolm Junior, you've been through so much, I would love to get any anything that you want to share with the audience about, you know, any thoughts you have at all.
Just never give up on your family.
You know it'd be a rough road going through that and seeing someone you love that's incarcerated like that, knowing that they are innocent, and you have all kind of mixed emotions Like I said, you be mad, you be sad, and everything else and all above. But just stay prayed up and just keep hoping and wishing that something of breaking. Thanks to the Innocent Project. I thank them for everything they have done for myself, my dad and my family, putting him back in my life because I never thought
this day'll come. So it's just like unbelievable for me, for my grandmother, it's like waking up to be able to talk to him. I don't got to be worried about waiting on the phone call. It's just just out, you know, I'm forty now. He went when I was two, but we still got a lot of time that we can, you know, share and him being here for my son, and so I'm just thankful that everybody, you know, most of my family still hear that can enjoy him and live the rest of our life with him, you know.
So I'm definitely happy for.
That your grandson will get a chance to hear this. And is there anything specific you want to say either about him or to him?
Well, actually, I've been out there life. I've been out their life a long time, and for that I like to apologize not only to my son but also to my grandson. And I like to see that I'm really proud of my son for what he actually has done with his life and sending it over to my grandson.
He done well with my grandson, but I can't say no more to either one of them out tied the fact that really I love him and being here with him, it's actually gonna give me opportunity to show just how much I really love.
Him out the moment we've all been waiting for. And what else can you share with our audience.
Well, he touched on something there and like I said, and being there. You know, you never lose thought of your family, and especially important that your family never lose thought of you. So usually like setting the gold for yourself, and your goal is to return back to your loved ones. But most of us actually never Like I said, I never felt I never realized how much that had affect them. You know, I guess I was so caught up in trying to get back to him, I never took the
time out to think about how that affect them. And since I've been out and being like, man, y'all really missed me. You know, It's like y'all really kept love for me. You know, it just wouldn't saying it or even with the idea of just doing their things like seeing me money anything like that. It was like, we need you, and I guess see just nice and doing that you is really love.
I guess that says it all. Yeah, all I can say about that is again, thank you for being here. I wish you all the blessings that life has to offer. You know, I hope you live to be a great grandfather and a great great grandfather and then everything goes your way. So thanks again for sharing your story, and to all of you Malcolm Junior Andessa, thanks again for being here and you've been listening to a truly extraordinary man and an amazing episode of Wrongful Conviction. Thank you,
thank you, thank you. Don't forget to give us a fantastic review.
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It really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject dot org to learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction
and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one