I think we have the best legal system.
It's just the people that implement they get lost along the way and forget what their job really is. He just kept on trying to remind me that who was in authority, who was in control, and how easy it was for my body to be found in any alley of New York City.
It's a tough prison when you have the guards going against you because they are the biggest gang in the prison.
They do that.
They'll give a guy a life sentence and go home in eat spaghetti like it was nothing. And anybody that said, well, why would you confess to something that you didn't do? My question to them will be why wouldn't you confess when somebody's threatening to kill your life?
You judge?
He said, how you feel? I said, I'm okay.
He said, well, the days you're lucky, day you're going home.
This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flomm. Today's guest is a larger than life character in every way. Anthony di Pippo.
Anthony di Pippo went behind bars as a nineteen year old troublemaker, but insists he was never the killer. They said he was.
After twenty years in prison for a crime the courts now say he did not commit.
The jury and Putnam County found him not guilty in the nineteen ninety four rape and murder of twelve year old Josette Wright.
This was his third trial for the same crime.
The previous convictions were overturned, then on Tuesday an acquittal. The main witness against him was a former girlfriend who said she witnessed the attack, but the jury didn't buy. What we learned at this trial is that the eyewitness was incredible. In the third trial, the defense was allowed to suggest Howard Gombert is the real killer, seen with the victims shortly before her disappear yearans and currently in a Connecticut prison on sex assault charges. The Putnam County
District Attorney, though, isn't backing down. He insists not guilty is not the same as innocent.
He was freed six months ago. Anthony, Welcome to the show.
Great to be on the show. Thank you for having me.
So.
Anthony is a very interesting guy. I've gotten to know him well over the last several months since he's been out of prison. And when I say he's a larger than life character, what are you six' five almost six y. Six, yeah he looks like a gentle. Giant so just gregarious and funny and fun to be. Around and so it really belies the incredible saga that you've lived, through how you came out with your spirits so so strong and so, positive and it gives me a lot of joy just
hanging around with. You So i'm glad to have you.
Here, well thank. You you, KNOW i try to live in for the moment and for the future and not in the. PAST i did twenty years wrongfully full so accus of CRIMES i didn't. Commit and it's a privilege to be back in. Society you, know a lot of people in my situation don't get to make it.
Here, yeah that's. True in, fact we'll get to. It the guy who was lawfully convicted with you is not here because he's still locked up for the same, crime which is crazy because you've been. Exonerated and let's go back to the time of the. CRIME i, mean you were still a, kid, right, right which is which makes it extra, tragic right because the fact that you lost those. Years so you grew up where.
In, Carmel New, York, Carmon New.
York nice, place pretty nice.
Place it's picking fences and people who are just living. Life is one of the safest communities according to The state to live.
In so you had a relatively happy childhood growing up In, carmel and things are going. Good you play, sports.
You, KNOW i was involved in wrestling in, school AND i wasn't involved with, baseball football and all of. That but you, KNOW i was doing a lot of stuff that normal kids, don't AND i did come to an age, where you, KNOW i began experimenting with drugs AND i kind of went south on, everything and that kind of led me down the path to how the police started to focus in on me as a personal interest just
because of WHAT i was. DOING i, mean we weren't out threatening people or robbing, people committing sexual assault, crimes but you, know we were using and selling, drugs and we were dressing up and we were playing the. Part you, know as the culture shows. That you, know when you're a, kid you kind of go certain. Way you're listening to rap, music listening to you easily. Influenced these influencers affected, me AND i left school.
Sort of like a knock around. Guy but you weren't hurting.
Anybody, no it wasn't my. GOAL i didn't wake up in the morning to, say, Oh i'm going to rape, somebody Or i'm going to go rob, somebody Or i'm gonna hurt. Somebody but at the same, time we were. Youths we were criminal. THINKERS i, mean it. Happens i'm not a criminal thinker. TODAY i like to think of myself as a mature human.
Being many of us have had our transgressions at that. Age so things are going along pretty. Well you're having your different issues, whatever some of your teenage things that are going. On you got to get, through like a lot of. People and then a crazy thing happens in the, community which is a twelve year old girl was raped and. Murdered, right we're talking nineteen ninety four, Now, yes her name Was Josette, Right Josette, Right and this must have been big news in the community like.
That it was huge. News it was in the. Newspapers everybody was talking about. It the entire police forces in the community got together and they were trying to solve this.
Crime, well it took a long time to find.
It, right thirteen. Months she was last seen In october of nineteen ninety, four and her skeletal remains were found In november nineteen ninety. Five and so they find this girl in the. Woods rope is attached to, her her hands were bound behind her, back the right leg was pulled up and the rope went around the neck and sort of a half hog tied. POSITION i don't want to be, graphic but the underwear was inside of her
mouth and the bro was tied around her. Face and she was found, prone face, down and she decomposed in that.
Position and this is where things start to get really, weird, right because now you have a, REAL i, Mean i'm getting the shills thinking about, it a really terrifying. Scenario.
Right it's the most horrible you can imagine.
Everybody's worst, NIGHTMARE a little, girl innocent found in having been tortured and. Killed and now the pressure, mounts right the cops they got a fin her who did, it but for a lot of, reasons it was.
Re electioneer for the, sheriff and so everybody wanted this case. Solved so they started looking at, people and one of the people they were looking at was a guy Named Howard, gombert who had later had confessed that he committed this crime to several. Individuals she was last seen getting into his red car with The connecticut license. Plates, now the woman eye witness that seene this identified his photo out of a photo ray as if anybody number, two he
was number. TWO i wasn't in the, photo, right AND i didn't drive a red. Car Howard gombert did drive a red car With connecticut. Plates so you have this girl getting in a red car fifteen minutes after she walks out of her house for the last, time which is a stone strow away from her. Home now she's not seen. Again the next time they find, her she's in the woods in this. Condition WHEN i went to,
TRIAL i didn't know about this, Guy Howard. Gombert my attorney had previously represented him on a rape, charge so he received the pre trial discovery material that implicated his former, client this Guy Howard.
Gombert it's not there for a, second. Right this is where things get really. Weird the fact is the attorney who was representing you had previously represented the guy who was the actual, suspect, correct which is totally, FORBIDDEN i mean an, unethical not, allowed whatever you want to call.
It any lawyer knows that they can't do, that and in, fact he withheld information that he had that would have implicated his former client and ended up screwing in the most And i'm excusing a very nice word for, it screwing you his current. Client it's so backwards and so conflicted and so fucked, up honestly that people can't even imagine that this goes. On but it. Does but let's go back to how this, started, right because it started with guy Named.
Gombret but we're doing the week they found her, remains so they got this eyewitness. Testimony that, week they also interviewed people That Howard gombert knew That they were saying he was trying to entice her into a babysitting, job and that he was flirting with her and he was acting strange around. Her so the cops are focusing on this Guy. Gombert but now we're driving along To Jersey. City we go to a. Rave LIKE i, said we were using and selling. Drugs we were coming back from
this rave and we get pulled. Over, now while we were in the. Car president in the car was Me Dominic, neglia who was the later, informant And Andrew, kreevak who became my co. Defendant we're in this car and we're talking just candidly about they just found this girl in the. Woods so when we got, arrested Dominic neglia told the
police that we might have information on that. Case so they whisked him away and they promised to treat him with some special treatment to get him off his drug charges or whatever if he would further give information upon us about what we were talking.
About it was only, sixteen, right he was.
Seventeen we were talking about basic newspaper. Knowledge we weren't talking, about you, know implied knowledge that we actually participated in his. Crime so then what happened from there was that Dominic negli was repeatedly pulled out of his, school pulled out
of his, job until he got. Fired he worked at The olive garden until he was brought to the police station for several hours of, interrogation and this Detective, Castalo Patrick costalo and his other Detective William quick were telling him they have to get information against, me otherwise he's going to go to prison for his. Charges and they were paying him money and they were beating him. Up at the same. Time he, SAID i don't want to
do this. Anymore he came to a point where he, says EVERYTHING i said was a. FABRICATION i don't want to do this. Anymore So, castaldo who was later indicted for this similar, conduct hit the guy in the head with the handcuffs and spin on. Him said you ain't got no other. Choice so he said. Fine he came back and, said all, right they wanted. WITNESSES i got your Witness Adam, Wilson Denise, rose And bill. McGregor supposedly
this crime happened in the van and they were. There so the cops took this information and went To Denise rose and threatened her were life in prison for three. Weeks was your girlfriend, Right, yeah we were seeing each other on and, off and at the time shortly prior
to her given a, statement we were seeing each. Other but THEN i broke up with, her which you, know it's not the cause of why she did this to, me but it probably contributed because some woman are, scorn you, know they get a certain feeling towards, something and so she became a witness against. Me, now remember WHAT i told you about how the body was tied. Up she said the girl was. Gagged their hands were tied in
the front and the rope was tied to nothing. Else with the Forensic evinance's contrary to, that with the police were mistaken because the finger bones not to be graphic, here but the finger bones felt to the rib, cage so they wanted a mistaken impression the girl's hands were tied in the, front so they spoon fed this To Denise. Rose So Denise rose parrots, this so she swears that
the hands were tied in the. Front, now if your hands are tied in the front and you're gagged in the mouth and you're being an attacked to whatever you're going to be able to, pull you reach up to him out to pull the gag out and bread if the theory of death is. Asphixiation but we were later able to find out that this, Guy Howard, gombert did this the ten other girls with the same type of bondage and.
Stuff why did the, cops in your, opinion when they had the guy who turned out to be the right, guy This gomber, right wrong, guy, right however you want to talk about, It they had the actual, perpetrator, Right how did they go so far? Wrong they were interviewing, him they were interrogating. Him, right they had it. Right all they had to do WAS i, mean this thing pretty much came with, instructions, right you had the red, car you had the, witnesses you had and then ultimately
it comes out that he's this serial. Predator. RIGHT i don't know if they had that information at that, time but why did they go off of?
Him LIKE i, said Dominic neglia and then From Denise rose and went on To Adam, wilson, who since we, can't,
did and Then bill, McGregor, who since we can't. Did, supposedly the, crime The deirya to crime was that we got so high in a van we played spin the bottle and the girl just wound up dead That andy attacked or stuffed their mouth with the underwear tight her hands in, front and then he went first for a minute and a, half and then SUPPOSEDLY i went first for a, minute and then supposedly we were supposed to
dump the. Body now this is all a fabrication to begin, With but the people that were supposedly playing spin The, bottle who were falsely identified By Dominic, neglia had recanted. It So Adam wilson, says after twelve to fifteen hour interrogation With Dan, stevens the same guy that Cohorse Jeffrey, deskovic was using a light detective. Test and we all know That Jeffrey dskovic is innocent BECAUSE dna established a
real killer and a real kill. Confess gave the same type of lie detective tests to my Friend Adam, wilson and he signed the paper but immediately. Recanted went just probation officer the next day said the story is. UNTRUE i was not in a. Van the cops threatened. Me they SAID i was going to be charged as an accomplished and accessory to murder AND i wouldn't be able to go. Home so he signed a statement and. Recanned the next. Day bill, McGregor he. Recanted it took him
ten years to, recant but he. Recanted gave us a sworn After david that cops threatening with accessory or accomplished to murder unless he put me in a. Van and he said he never Met josette right in his, life and he said he doesn't know Who Denise rose was until ninety, six two years after the, crime when the police Introduced Denise rose to, him and they Had Denise rose try to spoon feed him the story while he's in the police, department because he only said he fell
asleep during the crime and woke up at.
Home this is making my head, hurt, Right so they Have, gombert, right and then this terrible sequence of events happens where they pull you guys over and then that turns into exactly what we just talked. About but then at the same time they must have, said all, right, well we're gonna let this Guy gombert go because we think we got a different. Lead is that basically how you understand? It because it's so.
Weird he asked a critical, question how did the focus shift Off gombert to? Us So Dominic neglia in my, view was that? Shift is there anything more to? It were they Protecting? GOMBERT i don't. Know ALL i know is that guilt was shift to the actually innocent by the, police who either did so maliciously or by. Mistake but it was, done and we wound up spending the next twenty years And Andy stole in jail for crimes we didn't. COMMIT i don't know why the cops wanted us so,
badly but it just. Happened it was a twenty year struggle to get out of, prison And god bless. Us i'm here and we're gonna Get andy.
Out, yeah we're gonna get him. Out the question Is, gombert what happened to? Him?
So CAN i just tell the story About Howard? Gombert so, yeah people can, understand all. Right Howard gombert is incarcerated now for taking an eight year old girl in, woods threatening her with. Death i'm not going to name names because these people are some of them are still. Living he threatens her with, death he sexual assaults. Her in the last eleven years of his, freedom he was charged four time series sex crimes on one girl he was
abusing from when she was eight to. Eighteen would repeatedly tie her up and put the underwear in her mouth and tire her hands behind her back with various, things including the. Rope he was sixty four days prior to the girl that went. Missing in my, Case joe's that, Right and this is very critical right, here and this is HOW i Know gomber is, guilty is that he abducted his other, babysitter blonde, hair blue, eyes strikingly similar characteristics at knife. POINT a knife was also found at
the crime. Scene he jumps out of the trees and abducts her a, knife point ties her hands behind her, back and repeatedly sexually Assaultser i'm not going to identify no names here. This but he put the underwear in her, mount he tied something around her. Face this is an identical modus opera and di with a, babysitter and he was Enticing jose at the. Babysit she. Quit she went to the police. Department while the police report that night
documented all this, down documented. This she didn't Identify Howard gombert in the police report because later she said she was. Scared but she did call. Us we didn't know who she. Existed she did call us and, said this is what. Happened Howard gombert did this to. Me so she comes forward with. This the modus operandi is distinct and. Unique
this wasn't an. Accident this wasn't somebody who created the girl around a gas station for two, hours like the prosecution, said for the entire views and pleasure of the town Of. Carmel this is somebody that jumped out of the darkness and fled back off into the. Night, NOW i just want to build a little bit more On Howard Gombert Howard gombert was also seen six months later With Robin murphy seventeen who's still, missing And Robin. Murphy they were
seen at this laundry matt they were. Together years, later they would Find Robin murphy's underwear bearing HER dna eight billion to one odds that it was HER dna and a trophy suitcase maintained By Howard gombert with some underwear from his other rape. Victims her necklace what we believed to be her necklace was hanging from his rear view, mirror and when the cops arrested him for the last charge of the eight year, old they found this material
and they tested. It now years go by after, that he's, incarcerated serving time in the McDougall Walker Correctional, facility where he proceeds to tell a fellow jail inmate that he had sex With josette right when she went, missing and that they'll never Find Robin murphy's, remains and that they have material With Robert MURPHY'S dna on, it and that he was trying to Entice josette the babysit and that
he got her in the car with the babysitting. Lore now all these statements or declarations against penal interest made By Howard gombert in The Connecticut Correctional institution that are corroborated by proof independent of the statements, themselves to attest to the trustworthiness and reliability which culminated in my third reversal because of the second, charal the judge didn't allow any of this in you don't let the jury hear the Name Howard.
Gombert so there's a number of things here that anybody who has any thread of decency and cares about, women the girls in this, case, right the idea is so fucking outrageous that this guy was allowed by the authorities to go free and went on to commit these unspeakable crimes against these young women over and over, again and it took them so long to figure it out when none of those things ever really needed to happen if they would have done it right the first, time forgetting
for a moment the fact that you were robbed of the best years of your, life as Was. Krevak but that's what never ceases to blow me away about the idea that these law enforcement, people whether it's prosecutors or cops in some, cases or whatever it, is that they can sleep at night knowing that they're locking up the wrong, guy and especially in a case like, this and it's just a tragedy that you see here and. Go it could have been. Prevented it didn't have to. Happen none
has had to. Happen they had the. GUY i, mean it wasn't like a big. Mystery they had the. GUYS i, MEAN i know you must have had, well you had twenty years to think about, this BUT i, mean you, know it's just it's SO i can't.
You, KNOW i look at it like, this, Right i'm home. NOW i was victimized by not only the police, department but this, Guy Howard. GOMBERT i had served his prison. Time andy is serving his prison. Time, collectively it's forty one years in prison that we're doing for this guy as heinous. Individual some of these girls that he did this too with my. FRIENDS i don't know everybody that he did this, tool but some of them were my. Friends so we knew these girls growing. Up and to
find out years later that this is what he. Did Even, JOSETTE i was friends with the. SISTERS i was friends with the. Family i'm at odds with the family because they were misled for so many. YEARS i have such sympathy for, them but you, KNOW i feel horrible that they feel a certain sort of. Way but you, know in certain, cases you know that some families don't accept it as easily as, others and some people want to know if some people don't.
Well because let's think about it, too psychologically, speaking it's another terrible shock to them to find out that the person that they thought was the real perpetrator actually, wasn't and that all these years the real guy had been allowed to roam the streets and to pray on other. People so that's got to be another thing to have already gone through unbelievably terrifying traumatic experience and then have to process. THAT i could see where there there could
just be a breakdown and they could be. Everybody it's hard for them TO i, MEAN i, LOOK i could SEE i can understand. It, INTELLECTUALLY i can never understand one that's ever not been through it could possibly really understand. It everything went wrong in your case typical of many wrongful. Convictions you had an incompetent defense. Attorney you had incentivized witnesses who lied on the, stand incentivized in a lot of, ways, Right because they were being literally given the carrot and the.
Stick they were either being paid off or beaten up or threatened with being charged with. Murder that's a pretty strong. Incentive. Right so you got convicted in a separate trial from. Kreeback, right you both got. Convicted.
Right krevac signed a nine page false confession after he was given a light detective test by the same Individual Daniel steeveers that Gave jeffrey Test vic his lightest detective test preceding his false, confession which later was proven false BECAUSE dna proved Established and.
Let me just say for the audience in case some people haven't Heard jeffries' story on wrongful. Conviction jeffreys a guy who was wrongfully convicted at sixteen years old of rape and murdering a fifteen year old, girl and THE dna proved from the outset that he hadn't done. It and then on the back, end when he was finally released sixteen years, later A dna actually identified the real killer who. Confessed and we know that the guy that you're referring to now.
Is the detective that took his false, confession gave him several cups of coffee had him under the table in a fetal. Position prior to given a, statement he gave my co Defendant Andrew, kreevack a lie detective test preceding his false.
Confession the ironically about a live detective test is that the detective is allowed to lie about the lie detective. Test we should be given the fucking lie to tech a test to the. DETECTIVE i, mean it's it's, funny but it's. Not it's so weird to think that that they can lie in the process of trying to get you to confess to a. Crime they can lie to anything. Want they could say we got your, fingerprints they could
say we have. Witnesses they could say we got blood OR dna or, this or you the light of technests you. Failed they say whatever you. Want and we know that in certain cases they've even been, able especially with a teenager which you, were Which jeffrey, Was they've been able in certain cases to convince people that they actually did do the crime that they didn't do. Right and so false confessions are really common in.
Cases problematic, THOUGH i, mean of those cases that have been ESTABLISHED dna proof actually innocent involved some sort of. Confession one to, add of every four people that goes in the police department that says they did, it we have to assume they didn't do. It we have to look at it, closer because with that kind of, statistics that's demonstrating a tremendous flaw in the criminal justice. System so there has to be some sort of way to
corroborate these. Things these things should be taped from the beginning to the, end not before the guy starts, confessing but from the minute they bringing a suspect into a police department for an, interrogation they should turn on a. Camera they should put a tape recorder. There and if he's going to say, anything everything that he, says let's be,
recorded his, denials his, emissions. Everything let's just not start the tape record and when he starts confessing and then shut it off when you got him to sign a.
Paper, right it's not okay to have this movie be edited by the detectives who are, conducted which is basically what. Happens, Right they get to choose and selectively show the parts that they want to build their. Case by the, way the good news is that this Week New York state passed the law that we've been fighting for so At The Ends project and other organizations been fighting for it for so many, years where now videotaping of interrogations is co.
Mandatory AND i think that we have to pay respect to you and others who have gone through this because without you being out, there as you have done on many, occasions your story that probably wouldn't have gone through because the human story is what REALLY i think in many cases gets legislators to understand that these are changes that need to be made because these are things that happen
to real, people, right real people like. YOU i want to get to the prison experience because it's so hard to even imagine what it would have been like for you as a teenager to be thrown into the situation where you're going to a maximum security prison as a convicted rapist and murderer of a twelve year old. Girl, yeah you're a, big, strong tough, guy but still you're in a place that's they eat people alive in, there especially people who are convicted of these type of. Crimes
how did you deal with? THIS i, mean how could anybody deal with? That how do you? Hear? Like? HOW i, mean it's.
Amazing survival is man's number one. INSTINCT i got to, PRISON i ain't gonna. LIE i was THAT i didn't know WHAT i was. Entering SO i arrived at The Schwungak Correctional, facility which serious things happen, there but it is so if they're compared to most, prisons except but for the fact they sent me INTO b, one which was housing for all the most dangerous people in the state that they have to keep a close eye. On so WHEN i arrived to, PRISON i didn't readily admit
WHAT i was in prison. For when guys asked, ME i just blew it. Off, robbery murdered, this that and the other, thing AND i just started to go with the. Flow when guys started to catch window WHAT i was in jail, for then problems started to. Happen So i'm in a fight or a death. Situation what AM i gonna? Do there was. PRESSURE i politicked. MOSTLY i tried to avoid violence WHENEVER i, could and EVENTUALLY i, got you,
know the attention to certain. Guys they saw my paperwork and they gave me a, shot and SO i started helping other guys. Out and in prison it's you, know there's, bloods there's God, bodies which is the five percenters, most there's The, Italians Latin, Kings there's all different sorts of. Sex SO i found my way in with, everybody AND i showed my paperwork and guys started sticking up for. Me and Plus i'm a big, guy so guys didn't want to just straight out, say you, KNOW i had
to pay money or, this that and the other. Thing as opposed to my co defended who was recently cut two weeks. AGO i mean they cut him in the. Face the guards is pressing up on, Them they're waving the newspaper. Around he lost a recent, appeal and they're telling all the, inmates you know what he's in jail. FOR i was able to politic my way through it was it always a. Joy NOW i had, trouble and there was certain places where the guards were worse than the inmates.
Because you were transferred around to different.
Places, yeah and certain guards have morals and ethics that they think is the ethical duty to see to it that that we do hard time.
Right and so obviously it is the hardest imaginable type of time because in this country we don't focus on rehabilitation as Other western countries do we focus on, punished WHICH i think is backwards. Too except in the maybe the most extreme, cases we could have a we could have an intelligent discussion about. That but and in, fact yours was an extreme case except you were. Innocent but that being, SAID i don't believe that senencing somebody twenty
five years life in. Prison, okay we can say maybe that's an appropriate, sentence maybe it should be, longer maybe it should be, Shorter but sentencing them to be, tortured that's not what we do In. America that's not. Appropriate and the fact is that the way we treat people in our prison system effectively is. Torture AND i want to talk about privac because his story deserves to be
heard and people need to get. Involved maybe they could write to, him if you tell people if he's interested in having, RIGHT.
I always advocate for people to write to. Them from time to, TIME i put his address on the. INTERNET i send them. PICTURES i try to visit them WHEN i. Can it breaks my heart to see. HIM i bring him in high Spiritcy he's got a great. Team Professor Riddel, Bernard Jeffrey deskovic is behind. Him so he's got the support of our, community the innocence, community and we want to see him. Out we got his case into the appellate division now and we're waiting for a decision whether
he can leave to. Appeal BECAUSE i was, acquitted so based on the same, proof which consists of some new, proof he should be entitled to the same shot THAT i was recently.
Given it's so, strange, Right so you've been, acquitted the actual perpetrator has been, identified, arrested, convicted, Right so what possible reason could they have to Hold AND i don't know as much about his CASE i do about.
Yours, Right, well it's the, same it's pretty much the, same except he's got a CONFESSION i do, not the false. CONFESSION i do. Not it's the political climate in the. COMMUNITY. A they place their own interest above the interest of, justice so if something, happens if their colleague does something, wrong they cover up for. IT. B they're worried about paying. Compensation the county was already sued By, Jeff they're being
sued by other people right now to other. Cases so the local government wants to keep this swept under the rug for as long as. Possible For, however means they. Can so we're moving. Forward and if they don't want to accept, it if The putnam DA's office don't want to accept, It andy's actually, innocent notwithstanding my induction into The National registry Of Janna, rees notwithstanding the fact that the wrongful conviction community accepts me as it being actually.
Innocent or we're just going to fight them too to nail and if they have to roll over and we just have to just keep on marching, through that's what's going to, happen Because i'm not going to tolerate these. People all they want to do is protect their own. Interests this isn't just they should accept. Responsibility they have their.
Killer they have their, guy they know who it.
Is THERE'S dna, proof there's a.
Confession so what is Now Anthony and they're, thinking, now, well maybe he had something to do with. It, ALSO i, mean it doesn't make any. Sense this one is exactly a. MATCH i mean you don't have to be a skilled sleuth or detective Or kojak or whatever to figure this one, out.
RIGHT i mean everything that you said leading up to this point about how all the other crimes, matched and THE dna and and Everything it's, like obviously it was this Sick Bastard, gombert right Who Howard gombri who did, It and so the fact that you're your co defendant is still rotting and being horribly abused and caught and everything else in. Prisons to keep everybody up at night until this guy is, free it doesn't make any logical.
Sense AND i agree with, you AND i just want to build a little bit. More we extended the islive branch to the District attorney's. Office the prior district, Attorney Adam, levy he actually contacted The Attorney general's office to reinvestigate our case and was prepared to vacate my judgment in paperwork that he and my attorneys had drafted together with The Attorney general, involved based on proof that this guy costa local, horse perjured, testimony and based on proof That
Howard gombert is the actual. Perpetrator but he lost the election to this new, Guy Bob, tendy who is in bed with The Putnam County, sheriff that's the elected official down there. Now so instead of continuing to accept this out of we could work. Together we could solve the. Crime you could be heroes by being accountable and, responsible and we're not going to forgive my language shit on.
You when you let us. Out we're gonna big you up and we're going to try and help you look good and as long as you do the right thing for. Us he said to The Attorney, general you could Kick. ROCKS i don't need you another advocate for the, defendant and then proceeded to go through the. Trial now at this, POINT i made. BAIL i made a million dollars, bail
So i'm, free But i'm on house. ARREST i had an ankle, bracelet And i'm sitting there And i'm still waiting to find out if this guy really wants to take a trial or. Not and he's all. In so he hires this, Guy Larry, glasser who worked on The Plausa gobera's, case the football. Star i'm not going to comment on WHAT i think of. Him so he comes.
In he's all balls to the, wall hating us and saying all the foulest things about us and that we're definitely did it and there's no possibility we're, innocent and proceeds to go to. Trial NOW i go through the third. Trial this is the third TIME i got two. Reversals the first time was the conflict interest from the. Attorney in twy, eleven two thousand and, six The court Of appeals granted me and a new trial based on proof of The Howard gombert that it was suppressed from the retrial.
Judge So i'm going to trial and we pick a jury and they're being horrible about. It and at the same time we did all from the other. Branch we go into the. Trial at the end of the. Trial the clusing the, TRIAL i Had Mark agniffelow who works For Ben brockman and, associates And Mark, baker who also works For Ben, brockman and he did appeal For John. Gotti great, attorneys superior. Attorneys they get the best. Hearts they came to the. Summer the whole, summer they were
spending at my. House we were working a. Case we did. Everything So i'm waiting for the jury. Verdict now it was five. Hours i'm waiting for the jury, verdict AND i, think, Man i'm not going to win this BECAUSE i was beaten down my whole. Life you, KNOW i was a victim my whole. Life SO i just think that this is another motion THAT i have to go back to prison and come, back try and get it back and forth time the jury comes out with a not guilty.
Verdict So i'm having an artit That jeffrey desk vickers and tears gives me a bit. Hugged i'm sitting in my heart's, pounding the lawyers are in, tears my family's in. TEARS i knew the moment that that was gonna. Happen the judge looked when he said he was about to read the. Verdict he looked towards the victim's family and, AGAIN i have great sympathy for, him and he, said there'll be no outburst in his. Court and this is
before the jury guy stood. Up and this was like two three seconds, BEFORE i. Said when he looked over there and didn't look at, US i KNEW i was coming. Home AND i came home and it was the greatest day of my. LIFE i, MEAN i. WAS i lost bail during the period of TIME i went back to the jail for whatever. Reason but that, day that was the day THAT i uh THAT i made it home AND i was finally free of.
This you're finally. Free it's bittersweet because you know as well as anybody that this poor Guy Andrew kreeback is as innocent as you. Are AND i know you're not gonna really BECAUSE i know the type of person that you. Are you're not really going to be able to experience the joy that you deserve until he's home as. Well but what was that like after you spent more than half your life in? Prison? Right eighteen years? Old when you went in thirty eight thirty, nine when you came.
OUT i was forty forty twenty years.
Right because the trial proceedings and everything. Else by the time you actually went to, prison you were, twenty, right arrested when you're. Eighteen you spent more than half your life in the, system and you come, Out and what is that?
Like you walk?
Out what does fresh air smell like when you have? Anxianity what does freedom feel? Like where do you? Go what was your first? Instinct did you want a? Milkshake what did you?
Do you? KNOW i, MEAN i wanted what everybody else, wanted but it really wanted to spend time with my. Family there was a lot of shock because prison is drabb your bland colors and just, everything LIKE i went to bed and bath AND i just looked at the wall of toothpaste in, commissary you got three choices of. Toothpaste So i'm looking at the toothpaste on a, wall like what AM i? Doing how AM i supposed to make?
Choices and so even just going to a gas station and being able to buy a, soda or seeing females walk around like in, prison you're around. MEN i mean they got some women. Guards but being able to talk to, girls to speak to the opposite, sex to be able to not be wearing state, greens not being barked at,
orders you. Know but the, first the first most important thing THAT i found coming home was just being able to be with my family and appreciate the love and respect that they show me and give back and have a good, time have a good. Meal we went To Red. Lobster what did you? HAVE i had the ultimate. FEAST i just went every day And i've been having The ultimate feast Since i've been. Home i'm on diet, now no carbs at, all so no more. BREAD i went from two forty to two seventy five and like six.
Months, well AND i want to go back to that because when we were together and we were hanging out In miami. Recently, coincidentally we ended up in the same. City we were having some. Dinner we're talking and among all the other horrible things about being in, prison AND i know you were just talking about the, food AND i know you don't get a, vegetable you don't get a, fruit you get basically sloping. There it really, IS i, mean, bland just terrible. Food some of it's. ROTTEN i, mean
we know all those. Stories but the other thing that's unique to your. Case it makes me really amazed that you're walking around, upright is the idea that you're so big and the beds are too.
Small oh, yeah, mine there's no bed that my feet didn't hang off fun OR i had to crunch up.
SOMEHOW i, mean IT'S i.
CAN'T i had back problems until the DAY i came. Home WHEN i came, home my back poms went straight.
Away is not that.
AMAZING i had disc up and down my back and NOW i haven't had one disc, pain one sharp pain Since i've been, home And i've been working. Out in, prison you live on a mat like it's one inch, thick and it's like you're living on a piece of. Steel and like you, said sometimes the walls don't fit a guy six,' six they fit a guy maybe, Six feet so you have to crunch up and you, have to, you know find. A way i.
Slept, TOIME yeah i mean you got to just wake up with cramps in places that they don't even know, you HAVE places i can't. Even imagine ON top i SAID as i, TALK about, i mean on top of, the loneliness, the violence the lack of appropriate, physical contact all, of it it just adds up to just such a. Total NIGHTMARE but i want to go back to prison for. A second was there a worst time and was there?
Anything positive was there one moment that you could. Think back was there a connection you made with somebody on. The inside was there some moment?
Of HOPE was i mean there was BROTHERHOOD when i Was. In attica we were, living good we, were cooking we, had pans everybody. Had TVs there was a commaderat in the cell block where there was. No problem everybody KNEW who i was and everybody, respected me and there was a brotherhood. Between us but there was times where prison guards would come to myself because they heard out about antid dipipples in their jail and they decided to break on my things and threaten me, with that AND so
i experienced that in certain Pay. Like sullivan it's a tough prison when you have the guards going against you because they are the biggest gang in. The prison when you have the guards going, against you you. Can't win so you have to walk on eggshells because anything. You do if you decide, One day i'm gonna fight the GUARDS because i don't like the pressure that they're putting, on me you're gonna get. More time they're gonna send you.
To prison inside, of prison you're gonna go to, the box and then you're gonna get one to three or seven. More Years so i'm thinking to myself and to these TIMES that i was pressured that my family. Loves me they invested three million Dollars since i've been in costwrated three million dollars into my. CRIMINAL defense i would not be RESPECTFUL if i got caught up in some other thing where they get me OFF or i want to
say the. Word off they prove them actually innocent for this CRIME and i do something now STUPID that i can't. Come home so at CERTAIN times i stayed in. MY cell i bit my FIST and i Just said i'm gonna. Eat this AND luckily i didn't come across any SITUATION where i had to do. More time but there were TIMES that i want to come out myself and. HURT something i just made sure those days were the DAYS that i want to lock IN because i love, MY family i. LOVE myself i want to.
Go home is there a moment when you think back where you experienced any type of. POSITIVE thing, i mean there's a lot.
Of ups. In prison you, become bipolar so you would have, severe depression which even if you're not bipolar as, a person you will experience some sort. Of it so there'll be great downs when you lose your APPEALS and i peeled more than. Twenty times when you lose your appeals and you have to go to the. Next step but then there's. Great hope if you know you're innocent and you're, getting closer you get, this high this you, floric High
like i'm. Right there and then when, you win even if you're still, in prison when you just win leave. To appeal you don't even get the right, to appeal that brings. You up when certain people, write you like ex girlfriends or. Loved ones the girls want to come. See you and you've been down for, so long ups, in prison you live, in life so you just can't walk around for twenty years saying this is an. Awful
experience i'm gonna, Hate myself i'm gonna hate everything. In it you got to try to make the most of what, you got and THAT'S what.
I did that's a very, spiritual approach, very evolved, AND really i think for those of us who hear, you speak it's. Absolutely REMARKABLE and i think That the exoneries as a whole embody. That Attitude and i've heard some of the guys say and women say that for the people who weren't able to get to that, spiritual place if you want to, call, it that they're still stuck in there because they sort of gave. Up hope and, for you you. Kept fighting in a. Certain sense you.
Were lucky, at me you can't call, yourself lucky but it WAS fortunately i.
Had family, with money AND then i also put, in WORK so i was in the trenches with them the.
Whole way when you, CAME out i almost want to trace. Those steps you, come out, you're euphoric you go into a car with. Your family, everyone's ecstatic so happy to have you back because it's a burden on the family too when someone's. Wrongfully convicted but it drags, everybody down anybody who, loves you, of, Course right so then do you? Drive away where'd you? Go first you went. HOME first i really.
Didn't have an idea what we wanted. To Do so jeff, was there AND so i wanted to. Go eat nobody knew where we wanted to. Go eat there was about twenty of us that were there. That day some people didn't even think there was going to be a verdict that day and, went home one of my attorneys almost crashing on the side of. The road so, they said, you know what do you want. To Do so, jeff's like let's Go To. RED lobster i have waited to Go To red loopster for, so LONG so i just
went on his suggestion and it. Was great we went, over there we had drinks and THEN while i. Was there this was one of the. Remarkable things was one of the guards that was taking me to trial during the first trial in ninety seven. Was there he's not a, guard anymore a Guy Named Orphuser. San sandria he came up, to me and, HE'S like i, want to, you know just. CONGRATULATE you i didn't know who, he was and This is i'm just out a hot hour and a half
and he's shaking. My Head so, i'm like. Thank you you, Don't, remember, YEAH no i was taking you to the trial. BACK then i thought something was wrong. Back then let me buy you. A beer so one of, the guards one of the jailers that was taking me to my, original trial who felt something, was off gave me, a, big tall blue moved with a little orange, in IT and i bang that back and it was just. An. Experience man i'm very thankful.
FOR him i trying to imagine how good lobster tastes after twenty years of. Terrible food how good does beer taste after twenty years of? No, Beer, so anthony there's a rather bizarre aspect of your post exoneration life that really just boggles. My mind in spite of all the other things you've been through which are, so terrible now there's another indignity that the state is throwing at you and you basically you can't get a. Driver's license is, that?
Right RIGHT so i Go to Department Of motor vehicles and they, tell me you got. Outstanding TICKETS so i went to the town courthouse to go pay the. Tickets off so they're telling me these tickets amount to ten points on. My license these are tickets from. Ninety five the signal. Was speeding and, You know i'm not DEBATING whether i did these things. Or not, YOU know i was a dumb thinker as. A youth but at, this POINT now i come home, twenty years you figure it will.
Be resolved and so now they're telling ME that i may have another additional year of. Suspended license, that's like, all right you were wrongfully convicted for, twenty years but here a matter, of fact on TOP of i have an additional year without a license to extend your sentence.
OR whatever, i mean. It's crazy that's the statute of limitations that almost all crimes. EXCEPT murder i think rape is. TEN years i.
Don't think traffic violations got statue. Of limitations it's, that.
Believable right. IT'S unbelievable i mean that you're, coming on you're, going Wait but i've been locked up for. Twenty days, they like that's. All right it's like saying, to you, You know i'm don't care if the door, is locked you're, still, LATE right, i, mean like what are you. Talking about IT'S just, i mean at a, certain point the bureaucracy should grow a heart, And, say okay you, Know what we're going to make a little exception here for. This, Guy,
okay so but that's not. The case so it must be an. Unbelievable feeling it's a lot of.
Culture Shock so i'm. Me in i'm joining. My life at the, same TIME when i look back, ON it i feel guilty because there's so many people that deserve that that are still behind BARS that i haven't made. It home at the, SAME time i feel HAPPY and i enjoy the Things that i'm, enjoying NOW and i still got a lot more to Go because i'm still trying to. REINTEGRATE myself i always look BACK and, i SAY if i could just help, one person one person
achieve their freedom that don't deserve to be. In prison in the back of, My mind i'm always thinking, about People and i'm sure you get it to, you know everybody, needs HELP and, I wish I wish i could. HELP everybody i just wish anybody that could BE reached i, could reach, you know im practical to think that you can. Do that but if you can help one person or, TWO people i think that benefits society as.
A whole and that's an. Incredible message AND certainly i try to spend my days try to figure out, exactly, that right HOW can i get One more Anthony de, pippo out because it's just, an incredible incredible feeling to see, that transformation to see justice served after all, these years to see somebody like you get their life back. On track, YOU know i call it. SELFISH altruism i do it because it makes me. FEEL good i got.
A great passion, for it and, you know it's. Very admirable the point you are in, your career you don't need to be, doing this but it's something that you do out of love and respect and trying to give back and find a solution to. A problem it's. VERY admirable i think your dad was involved, in this right With the. Innis's, project well.
My dad was a supporter Of the. Innists project and, my dad who was my hero he. Still is he really instilled in my BROTHER and i a sense of right and wrong and an idea that what you do to make the world a better place defines you as, a person not what. You accomplish he, told us do whatever you want, to do try to be the best, at it but just make the world a. Better place, he goes that's the meaning. Of SUCCESS and i wanted to be a success in his EYES because i looked
up to him. SO much i definitely credit him for giving me, this passion and he was. His, Firm actually scadden is a huge supporter Of the, inniss project donates thousands of pro, bono hours has been involved in some very important exonerations and they're, all IMPORTANT but i mean some that have actually driven, change systemically and so it's really full circle to be able to work in, this
field especially with his spirit hanging over. And guiding it's, you know it's funny YOU said i don't need to be. DOING it i do need to be. DOING it, i mean this IS what i need to. Be doing this Is what i'm. Here For and i'm very lucky in a lot. Of Ways but i'm very lucky to be in a position to be able to help certain PEOPLE and i want to help as MANY as. I can and to get back, TO that i know a lot of people that are listening to you speak, right now
are saying the. Same thing, they're saying HOW can? I help WHAT can? I do and let's start with the Case Of. ANDREW kreevac i mean what can? People do?
All right so anybody wishing To Contact andrew kreevac may.
Do So andrew kreeve please do right. TO him i know he'd love to hear. From you and it's number NINE seven a four two Three Six Wendy, correctional facility the we and de three zero Four Zero wendy Road, In Alden, new york one four zero. Zero four that's one one.
Eighty seven and we'll put this address on the website for a Roll for. Conviction podcast so what can people do To Help? Andrew kreevak just offer your support and become Aware and i'll help. Raise awareness and then when his case comes up and the opposite side or the adversaries start, making comments then try to make. Comments back We Have. Attorneys forum he's being represented pro Bono By adele Bernard and Victor cepos so he's got a. Great Team,
jeffrey deskovic of course we're. Behind him offer, moral support anything you, COULD do i think that will. Help us get us over the home, right NOW the da is being. Stubborn again they're placing their own interest above the interest, of justice the interest to justice for Not Only andrew kreevak, and myself but for the victims in, this matter jose at right and the, Other Girl, robin Murphy Who howard
gombert also in my. View killed based ON what i told, you earlier there are ways you can help the actually. INNOCENT anyway i mean some, you know there's some places you, can donate like To The, innocence project To The Jeffrey, deskovic foundation but some people don't have the money. To donate and when you don't have the money, to donate you can always offer moral support and. Always stay it's, always.
Corner and you can go to. The websites go To The Jeffrey deskovic foundation and learn about. Their work Go to innocenceproject. Dot org there's. Some instructions there are things you can do to. Get involved before, We, CLOSE anthony i always like, to ask is there anything else that you want to share with the audience from.
Your, Experience well i'm trying to do my best to try to help people and trying to give back to the justice system to the wrongful. Conviction community i'm currently working With The Jeffrey deskovic foundation. Analyzing cases i'm trying to determine who we, could help. Who's reachable there's a lot of innocence people, in There but i'm trying to determine. Who's reachable at the, Same time i'm going AROUND and i encourage people to try to do the. Same thing i'm.
Going around i'm. Lobbying lawmakers i'm with it can happen. To You Professor bennett gershman and you may have heard. Of him we're trying to pass a piece of legislation Creating a commission On A, prosecutorial conduct which would be an additional grievance committee for prosecutors who commit misconduct as a form. Of deterrence so prosecutors won't withhold evidence if they know that there's going to be a penalty aside from the, agreements committee or they won't knowingly use. Perjured
testimony they try to create. Some balance, you know the system works on checks, and balances and so, You know i'm, Out there i'm trying. To lobby i'm trying to work if you can help anyway with The wrongful, conviction movement whether, it's don't, moral, support anything is. Greatly appreciated and there's other people that are in prison that deserve to. Come HOME if i could give my life to bring ten, PEOPLE home i probably would. Do, it guys just give
me one. More day i'll go do have, some fun and then you could come from my soul and let ten other free people out that don't deserve to be. IN prison i would probably.
Do that don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you get. Your podcasts it. Really Helps and i'm a proud donor To The innocence PROJECT and i really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future. Wrongful convictions Go To innocence project dot org to learn how to donate and. Get involved i'd like to thank our, Production Team connor Hall And. Kevin wartis the music in the show is by THREE
time oscar Nominated Composer. Jay ralph be sure to follow Us on instagram at Row And ful conviction And on Facebook At Rowful. Conviction Podcast wrongful Conviction With jason flahm is a Production of Lava For good podcasts in association With signal company number one