Everton Wagstaff is a source of inspiration to me that I am just super grateful to have his talk that he gives at the end of the episode that you're about to hear, which was just stream of consciousness. Man, he drops some knowledge that I really needed to hear, and I think a lot of other people do too, So please listen all the way through to the interview I did with Everton Wagstaff back when it first aired
on February twenty seventh of twenty seventeen. The good news is finally, after suffering through over two decades of wrongful imprisonment, Everton received a fourteen point six million dollar settlement in June of twenty seventeen. Everton, you deserve all the happiness in the world and I wish you blessings on blessings. You are a hero to me. With the police banging on the door, open up.
The choice to be in that lineup was the last choice I made as a free man. A year later, I ended up writing the system.
I'm going to be one of those people who everyone in the world is going to think as a monster or suspect as a monster for the rest of my life, and I'm just going to have to come to peace with that.
Somebody was able to look at my picture in the database and say that I was somewhere where I definitely wasn't. I overheard three of the jailers discussing what part they might have to play in my hanging. They had been told that two prison officers would have to participate in my execution. Now I walked back inside that prison for the last time. Man all help broke loose.
But in nineteen ninety two, Everton Wagstaff was arrested and charged with the kidnapping, rape, and murder of a sixteen year old girl, Jennifer Negron in Brooklyn, New York. Wagstaff and another man who he didn't know, Reginald Connor, were both convicted for the girl's brutal killing. His arrest and conviction were based almost entirely on the word of a drug addicted sex worker, a heroin addict named Brunilda Capella, who claimed falsely that she discovered the body.
He's spent twenty three years behind bars, and spent even longer than that fighting a legal battle against a justice system. Tonight, this Brooklyn man, he is finally free. Everton Wagstaff's wrongful conviction has been overturned.
He ultimately served almost twenty three years in prison and survived based on an incredible positive attitude and a will to live and persevere. He was exonerated in twenty fourteen, and he's here today. This is his story.
I was so curious about coming to this Clenchion America. A year later, I ended up writing the system.
Welcome back to another episode of Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flomm. Today's guest is the one and only Everton Wagstaff. And you'll understand why I say the one and only after you get to hear his incredible story and his unique perspective and wonderful attitude about everything that he's been through and about the world in general. Everton, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me so, Everton. We have a
tradition here at Wrongful Conviction. We start at the beginning and then we worked through the whole story right to the present, starting back at the beginning. You're originally from Jamaica, right, yes, and not Jamaica Queens.
Jamaica, actual Jamaican Island. Did Jamaica Island?
Yeah? Yeah, I know. Everybody's always giving you a hard time about the Jamaican bobsled team. But that wasn't you. That was some of the guys. Tell me about growing up in Jamaica. First of all, did you have a happy life there? What was it like?
Yeah, it was happy. I grew up with my grand appearance. We pretty much have basic necessities. Weren't like in Nita for any thing, you know, prett to live off the land, nothing to complain about. It was fairly fairly well.
And you came here in your young twenties. What led you to make the decision to come to New York it's a big change.
Well, you know what, I've always heard about America And I said, whoa, what was? And I was so curious about coming to this country. I've been seeing all these things.
Had you ever been here before? No, you've never been here, and you just decided to move exactly, pretty brave.
And you know, I was curious about here. But a year later I ended up writing the system.
I mean unfortunately, Yeah, I mean that's a rude awakening, like very not welcome to New York, right, exactly the opposite of welcome exactly exactly. So you were living in Brooklyn, right, when you got here.
Yeah, I was living in Brooklyn. I that in the Bronx with my mom, you know. Then I live on my own in Long Island with a former girlfriend.
So you moved around a little bit, yes, And what were you doing to make a living while you were here in the beginning, Well.
I used to do a little construction with my step dad. He used to be one of those guys that'd helped with the Brooklyn Bridge.
So you came to America in what year, late.
Eighty nine, ninety early nineties, and.
A year later everything went wrong.
Everything went wrong, Yeah, which.
Is a crazy story. I mean, there was a lot of crime in New York back then, and there was a lot of pressure on the police to solve crimes. Yes, And there was a terrible crime that happened at that time, a young girl, sixteen year old girl was kidnapped, raped, and murdered. So naturally there's going to be a lot of pressure on the cops to resolve this and restore some faith or some calm to the community. And they ended up getting not only one wrong guy, but two
wrong guys. They ended up getting you and another guy, Yes, And they managed to arrest and ultimately convict you without any physical evidence exactly, which is it's a crazy story. I mean, we hear so many crazy stories here on wrongful conviction. Take us through it. So we're wor you did they come and kick in your door or like did how did you end up getting arrested and what were you thinking at the time.
Actually I was on a payphone in East New York and and my car came up and took me off the phone and said that there and said it was going to take me to the precinct to check something out. And that was it. I ended up getting interrogated for this crime. The ax me where I was between such and such a time at tim I was nowhere in
the area. I was in Long Island. And they keep saying that they have a witness Hooken said that I commit a crime and before and so on, and I tell them and I didn't commit a crime, And they have the wrong person. So they had met the person from at least from about twelve or eleven in the afternoon until about one o'clock twelve one o'clock midnight. So I put me on this line up to have this girl came in. I know who it was at that time. Came in and they said I was identifying as another
person who committed the crime. And I was like, this is impossible. I didn't commit a crime if nobody to speak, but I was not in the era. It's that you guys said I was name in that era.
At the time we were interrogating. Did you have a lawyer or anybody else? No, and no lawyer, nothing, And so you're new in this country, yes, and it's got to be totally bewildering and overwhelming. Did they threaten you.
Well, it didn't make a lot of fun of I mean, because I told them that I needed to speak to a lawyer and they asked me who I want me to get that want me to get to Kobe and Myers or something like that.
For those of you, for those of you who aren't from New York, to Phobean Wires is sort of a punchline because they're always advertising on TV anyway, That's why he brought it up. So, yeah, so they're making fun of you. They're probably bored too, because you're in there for twelve hours, right, So did they give you anything to eat or drink or anything like that? So you're
just sitting in this room for twelve hours. They're coming in and out, and the typical interrogation, no videotaping, no nothing, nothing. But you didn't admit to anything.
No, you know, I wouldn't admit to something I didn't do.
And ultimately the whole situation got really surreal, right because they were so desperate it seems like in retrospect to get a conviction that they went to pretty extraordinary lengths to frame you. And talk to me about the other guy who was convicted at the time.
Oh, his name was Reginald 'conna. Actually didn't know reginal'conna. We were never a friend, never hang out there or anything like that. Too much put us together.
So Reginald Cotton was your co defendant in the trial. He also was convicted. I was wondering whether you guys had even known each other, but no, it's just random. Were you in jail awaiting trial? Were you out on bail?
I was in jail in Rockers Island, in.
Rikers Island, Yes, that's a hell of a place to be in jail. Was it as bad back then as it is now?
It was worse then.
How long were you in Rikers awaiting the.
Trial about a year and a few months ago.
If you say that very casual, it's a long time, especially in that place. It was how much was bail?
Ye was? Then Bill said nobu?
Well yeah, I guess it was a kidnapping raider a child. Yes, So yeah, they didn't send any bells. So you're stuck there. A year and a quarter goes by and you finally brought the trial. First of all, we tried together separately to get it together with this guy who you didn't know. Had you met him in Rikers? Was he there as well?
Actually, when I went to court, that's when I first saw him. I know that we were charged to get it right. I didn't see we didn't say, in the same facility when we were on the island.
So you didn't get to know each other at all.
On the island. No, it's when I went to the court that I saw him there and I was asking what's going on? And he was clueless.
I of course he was because he was innocent too, exactly right. So you your partners in this nightmare, so to speak, strangers who were thrown together pretty much, Yes, by this nightmare of police and prosecutorial misconduct and various other factors that led to you being stuck in this situation. You're such a positive person and you have such an amazing outlook, but when you went to trial, you must have been somewhat skeptical because by now you had been
you knew you were innocent. It seemed obvious from everything that I know about the case, it would be really hard for even a corrupt system to say, let's put it on this guy. I mean, they knew you were innocent. Did you think that justice would be served? Or were you at this point thinking I'm going down, They're going to do whatever they have to do to get me.
Actually, when I was on let's reverse back back to Ruckas Island. When I was on the island, I pretty much I wasn't really doing anything to help to clear myself. I was just saying that they had the run person, and eventually they're going to get it right before you can go to a nestroyal, because I was saying to myself that I did not comment to crime. And there's no person in the right mind who's going to come and testify it to a crime that I know that
I didn't come. There's no way, So I wasn't really doing anything. I was just like, you know, just like probably just hanging out, you know, young twenty one years old. I was just hanging out there and said, they're going to get it right until when I went to trial. I actually had this girl who actually it was not in her right mind because she was an addict.
And let's talk about her for a minute, right, because this is where the story gets really crazy. The witness against you wasn't just some random person. It was actually a heroin addict who was completely strung out, so strong out in fact, that she had to be kept in a locked room prior to the trial for three days so that they would be sure that she would show up and be somewhat sober in order to testify. Right, we know now that she was used in up to
twenty cases. They would wheel her out whenever they needed somebody to testify against, somebody who they didn't have any evidence against. Here would come Bruneil did, the heroin addict, and who knows what favors they were doing for her, because we know back then in Brooklyn there was a
lot of framing going on. There were a lot of deals being made with witnesses, which could have involved something as basic as dropping charge against them, or even favors that may have been done that would involve cash or drugs or who knows, because this was a pretty big favor she was doing them to testify falsely and perjure herself to help them resolve a case that they really didn't want to have to deal with in the correct manner.
But the idea that this woman who was obviously morally bankrupt and completely just out of her mind exactly would be used in twenty cases, I mean, that's something to really reflect on and say. And of course it would require someone with oversight of the whole situation to be able to tie all those together and go, wait a minute, how lucky could she be that she witnessed twenty different murders. Incredible,
But you didn't know about that while you were rikers. No, you didn't know that they were going to wheel out this heroinautic to testify again. So, in other words, so you were actually and you had reason to expect that you would be exonerated because you knew they couldn't have any evidence against you.
I didn't come at a crime.
So you still had faith in the system, and you still thought you're going to go to trial, They're going to figure out they made a big heart.
I was even I thought they wasn't going to go to a trial. We're going to find out who coming to crime before they even took me to trial because I didn't come in a crime.
Right. But the bad news is, as we know that when they arrested you, they stopped looking for the guy. So you go to trial together. How long did the trial last? You had a court appointed lawyer, I'm assuming because you didn't have money, and was your lawyer? Did he seem interested? Was he competent?
Was he at that time? I thought he was doing his best, you know, because I didn't know pretty much anything about to do to show the system and the representation one that you should be getting.
I just did he come to the prison and meet with you and interview No, he's shaking his head never. No, you're looking at me like I'm crazy, So he never came to interview you. I'm actually not a lawyer, but I do have some common sense and would seem like anybody who's going to represent somebody in a case in which their life is literally at stake might want to take the time, take one afternoon and say, you know what,
I'm going to go. I'm gonna skip my golf game today and go over to Rikers and see what the everthing has to say, see if he's got any information that might be helpful. But that didn't happen.
No, I guess when you're intigends, you know you're not that fortunate.
We know that public defenders are overworked, underpaid, overwhelmed. There are a lot of very good ones, but you have to be lucky to get one of those. It's almost like another it's like a lottery. Then comes the moment, so the jury goes out, they come back in.
If ID my guilty and second degree kidnapping. Because the judge initially dismissed the murder, I take away in because they said there was an evidence.
Right and and that's interesting too because the judge, let's just reflect on that for a second. The judge refused.
To submit the murder charge murvidence.
Because of lack of evidence. That's very powerful words. So there was no evidence of that, but he allowed the kidnapping charge to go forward. There was no evidence to
that either. Well the Capella there was Phoni why Brunilda Capella and other than that, not only didn't they have any physical evidence against you because there was no DNA, there was no blood, there was no traces of anything or anything, but they also withheld evidence that would have proved that you were innocent, yes, at the time, and it took you a long time to discover that. So the kidnapping charge goes forward. There was a headband, right,
so this was another phony piece of evidence. There was a headband, a black headband, I believe that was found in the car, which they claimed.
Actually they're saying that Cramston investigator discover numerous items inside a car, but this particular headband is said belongs to the victim. And one of the reasons why the prosecutor said it belongs to the victim because they said that there was this violence struggling in the car between Meando's victim and joining. This violin struggle with the headbund was ripped up as a result of the violent confrontation between me and the witness, and the evidence proved that this
car is the car because of this headband. But probably a month after the trial are so the headbund was distroyed because if it was kept into evidence, it would have been tested, I would have proven that did not belong to the victim. But one of one's daughter, and I think the prosecutors are the police knew this. That's why they get rid of it. So there was an evidence that even tests right.
So let's just think about this for a seconds. So there's a violent struggle in the car. Obviously you can't see everything, but he's a big, strong guy, very muscular guy, and there's a sixteen year old girl. So there's a violent struggle. But there's no blood, there's no physical evidence.
No here.
But there's a head.
A head.
That's all that happened exactly. So they have to suspend a lot of disbelief to get to that point. But furthermore, going off of what you said, later on, it was discovered that the owner of the car, the same person who said that the car had been at the church service until five point thirty in the morning, in which case it would have been impossible for this car to be used in the crime at the time that the only witness said that it was. That same person also
said that that had been belonged to their daughter. Yes, so the problem is they didn't turn that evidence over to the defense.
It was destroyed.
It was destroyed, but it was found later. I mean, they had an interview. The evidence was destroyed, but they had an interview with the owner of the car, which they did not turn over, and that had to be discovered years and years later. Had they turned that over, the whole case falls apart.
Exactly because the detective had gone to her to ask about her car and she told him that her car could not have been used in her crime because she was using it at that particular time. Anything that would have underminded people's case was never turned over to us.
Right. That's again, that's where I really I just I have a hard time processing that stuff. You know. It's like I don't understand. I've never you know, I have a lot of respect for law enforcement. I mean, we need we need a justice system, we need prosecutors, we need cops. You know. It's like when I was growing up in the seventies, there was a bumper sticker that said, you don't like cops, Next time you're in trouble, try
calling a hippie. Right, And so I'm very cognizant of the fact that they play a very important role in society, and I have a lot of respect for the fact that they work at a dangerous job. Nobody's getting rich
doing it. But the bad guys, the bad actors in the system, inflict so much damage and the fact that they are able to, Like I'm trying to take myself inside the mindset of these detectives who went to interview this woman learned at that moment that you were innocent, as was Reginald, and just chose to ignore it because it was more convenient for them to wrap this case up and move on with their life. And then they went home and ate dinner and did whatever they did,
play with their kids. And it's a hard one for me. I don't know, maybe I just can't. I'm never going to be comfortable with that. But that's what happened. And now the jury comes back in. Tell me about that moment.
I'm sure that my mother was sitting in the court room and the jewy came back and they said that the beach a verse did. The judge asked what was the verdict, and they said I was guilty of second degree kidnapping. My mom actually screaming out in the courthouse and it was like totally shocking. I mean it was totally unbelievable to me when you know, when when I heard that, because I said, I didn't you know, I did not comment to scrime. I hope could I could you?
People actually found me guilty for crimes I know I did not commit, and so I was just like like just did standing like shock?
Did you say anything? Did you?
I just told you I did not commit a crime. You said, so, yes, I did not comment in a crime.
And then they took it away. Yeah. So now your sense was twelve and a half to twenty five years.
Yes.
The problem with that is aside from the fact that you were innocent and that you shouldn't have been in the system in the first place, the problem is that twelve and a half to twenty five could actually mean life because when you're sends to twelve and a half to twenty five, you're eligible for parole after a period of time. But in order to get parole, you have to express remorse. You have to which is essentially the
same as admitting guilt. Yes, and I want to get to that, but first I want to talk about your experience in prison, because we've spoken about it before and it's quite remarkable that you are this joyful? Is the best way I can describe your attitude about life. And I know from having spent time with you and talked about your years, your decades in prison, that you maintained an upbeat and positive attitude through a situation that would have broken down a different man, a different person. What
did it? How did you do it?
Well? You know, I know I was innocent of this crime. I know I had truth on my side. I know that somebody was lying about this crime, and I know it was not I wasn't the one lying about it. Kind of it in a comment of crime. And I will tell to myself that I have to do something about it, because we have to show that the truth means something. If I just sit there and just didn't do anything that means I would, it would be a betrayal to the truth. I mean, so I had to
do something if it mean I have to sacrifice. But sobeit and actually at first I didn't pretty much have an indication about the judicial system, the police reports and all these things. It's after having gone through a lot of studying. I got books and rent books because I used to work in a general library interlibrary loan books. I rent books from the outside, study what PaperWorks mean what, and all these things and try to compare them under
some contrast, and all these things. And it was just doing this time that I actually went and found those reports. And I tell myself that I could not have just sit there and just like throw a pity party or anything like that, you knowest I could not do that. I have to fight. I have to do what I have to do, and that's the only way I would be I would have been vindicated. And I went to the legal research course inside here, I passed and get a paralegal certificate where I could work in a lot
of library and help other inmates. And while I was doing these things, this is the other things that actually keeps me going. I used to read books and newspapers, articles that came through the lot of library and the general library where other peopils were being vindicated, you know,
of crime that I didn't come to commit. So these are some of the things that I have seen that actually give me some sense of hope because I said, you know, one day it's going to be me, because I know the truth adventure was going to vindicate me. Were you angry when I was first convicted. I actually sit and cry and ask God why me? You know, I didn't comment to scribe God, why didn't Why did
you allow this to happen to me? And I asked a friend of mine who was there, and he said to me, his question was because God knew what you was gonna do, that he was going to fight it, probably for something else that you probably put it in the past or something like that probably would just sit back and just didn't different to it. But God know that you did not come and to describe it. You know that you would have fight the way you did right, No,
you were fighting, and that's the reason probably why. And it makes sense.
But it's interesting because having spoken to so many and they've been very fortunate to be able to spend time and learn from literally hundreds of exgneries over the years I've been doing this, you know, they all have a different version of what you're saying. Some of them went in angry, bitter, scared, but then they turned it around somehow.
But it sounds like to me like you were like steadfast, Like at first you had your moment, you allowed yourself to cry, and then it sounds like you just bounced uf you had this one guy who was like a mentor kind of like who sort of steered you spiritually or whatever.
There wasn't any time to true pity party or anything like that. There is only time to be bitter. It is something that has to be done, and there was any other way to do it but through me. Actually, I used to rely on other people to help me to fight my kids, to write so because I couldn't even write properly, you understand, I used to have to rely on in me to actually read some of the stuff with me and try to explain to me to
me about some of these issues. And I said to myself, you know what, if I'm going to prove that I'm innocent, I cannot be really, I can't expect to rely on these people to do something for me that I should be doing for myself. And so that's when I start to actually get books. I started to like when I passed my GD because that's where I get my ged college course. Who was thereby taking out the college course
the prison system. So what I did when I work in the general library, I used to study, do my own independent study insiety or starty read books, all different books anxiety and educate myself in the general library because I realized that I was on a mission and I can it is no time for to be bitter, to carry any animasity, because all I was going to do is defeat the whole purpose, Because why would why should I consprail with something that I already have, my dear,
but I didn't if I was already doing time for something I didn't do, So why would I choose to hay taut to to be bita when it's not gonna help me. You're not gonna cause me more harmran anything else. I didn't not have any time for that.
But you realize that is a very advanced spiritual practice almost and it's so extraordinary for me and I think many others who are listeners and fans of the show. It's really powerful to hear you and others who've been through this talk about that, because I've never been through
anything vaguely resembling the stuff that you've been through. But I think it's good for you to know, and I hope you know that it's so inspiring, you know, to be able to take what you're saying and try to incorporate that into daily life and take a more you know, zen for lack of a better word, approach to the
life's daily problems. And so I appreciate you sharing that you know personally, and I'm sure there's a lot of people who will were able to draw and have a happier day or week or life as a result of hearing your voice. I think that's that's really an amazing it's phenomenal. There came a point when you were eligible for parole. Yes, at this point you had contacted the Innocence Project by now, but you hadn't heard back yet as to whether the case had been or had you.
Never interacting like writing comic expanded me about the case and so forth. And the evidence that been Actually took a while for them to discover any evidence in my key, because at first I said the evidence could not be found, and it was after Jim Dwyer wrote an article about it, because during that time, this guy here, he was just he was in the Bronx Alan Newton had a problem finding his evidence.
Yes, I did.
And then eventually they went back ten years later and found the evidence in the exact place where it was ten yure earlier. So so what Jim did he combined both cases unsure the problem of finding the any evidence that would exconerate inn send people. So after the article is the DNA evidence was eventually found.
Yeah. Jim Dwyer, for those of you who haven't read his stuff, is a fantastic investigative reporter in New York. And this is not atypical, right the Innocence Project, Before we take a case, we have to find out, we have to do the research to find it if there's evidence that so that we can help. So you were sort of in between, but you had hoped that the Innocence Project might take your case exactly. But you also had another option, right, which is that your parole was
coming up. But you took a very principled stand at this point in time, which is I think a hard one for some people to understand, because you literally had at a certain point an option of getting out of prison if you would have done certain things. Yes, but you refused.
Yes.
So let's talk about.
That well, Jason, the part of what is there for people who committed their crime? And why would I go to a board to admit there to show remorse for something that I know I didn't coming.
When you would you refuse to even go to the prole board. Yes, right, and that's again that's a that's a heavy thing, I think for a lot of you. For me, it's amazing because people would think, well, you got to get out of prison. I got to get out of here, right, But you were not going to do it. You're not going to admit to really a brutal, terrible crime exactly.
And then that would just subject me to ridis as a sex offender. And I told you that, but I would be dictated when one way to go and when to go to bed I went to sleep or something like that.
So it would be like being in prison on the exactly, and you were going to stand and fight for what was writing. But I mean spending the rest of your.
Life in prison, spend the rest of my life. It's incredible because I would be a free money insided and I would if I had to come out here.
Yeah, So it's almost like a double penalty. But Reginald chose to take the other option and I and I can certainly, as I said, I can relate to that. I think it's it's almost like a Sophie's choice, right, you have two options and they're both bad. One is you admit guilt in essence.
Well, I don't think Regie actually to admit guilt because his law you had written PaperWorks to the board professing his innocence, proclaiming is innocence than everything, right, So I guess that's play a factor in his release too in two thousand and four.
But did he have to register as a sex offender and all that stuff? Yes, if he was innocent, he wouldn't have to register exactly right, so you know. And the other problem with that is, of course, if you accept those conditions or terms what everyonet to call it, you forego any opportunity to sue for your wrongful conviction. Right, you have to sign those rights away essentially, So it's a very very difficult decision to have to make. And what happened had you eventually when your.
Freedom conditional release came up for me to be released, this is when all he had to do was just sign up paper and walk out. But again that would have subjected me to register again as a sex offender, and I refuse to sign those paper. So ten years early on, the parler would probably would have been paroled had I gone to the BO and then five years after my conditional release, and I signed a paper then I would have to spend five extra year in prison. But I refuse to sign that paper, and I tell
myself that I was going to be free. I know the TRUDEO was going to vindicate me sooner.
Or later, and we know that it did. Bill, you wouldn't be here now. But let's talk about that. So the Innocence Project took your case and eventually twenty fourteen.
Yeah, well I was during that time. I was I had Belldock helping too with my case. He was doing the part where there's no involvement of dating evidence or anything like that. It was studying the police reports and all these things, because that's when I started to write everything about what I discovered, showing them what I've discovered and showing that I did not comment the crime, that there was a fabrication, and you know, showing the purports and all these things.
And Bell Doc again for those who may not know, it's Myron Bell Doc.
Yes.
So he's a very respected criminal defense attorney in New York and he had taken your case bono. Yes, right, So now you have two very powerful weapons in your arsenal all of a sudden right, it went from being basically on your own, to be well, not basically totally on your own, to having two great organizations advocating exactly because it was clear to us at the Innocey's project and also to Bell Doc and his friend that you were an innocent man exactly. So how did it end up?
We heard about the terrible day when you were convicted, We heard about the horrible day when you were arrested. I want to hear about the day when you were exonerated and how did it get to that point and what was that like?
Well, we had initially file emotion, the motion was denied by Justice Sparker, and then we have to file emotion to the Appalliate Court showing why the kid should have been dismissed because of the fabrication and the late Britty turned over that show that the kids was actually fabricated
against us. So did they put the second department looked over the keys, took them like six months, six or six months, and it came back and not only did they dismiss the conviction, but they also dismiss the evidence in that means againstans, showing that the report that should have been turnover to us at trial. Was never turnover, and that would show that the detectives and the witness was not foot right with their allegation. They pretty much fabricate the whole thing they did.
I mean not even pretty much, just straight fabricated.
The whole thing. So I normally call Kim. She was a former correction officer. She would pay a pivotal part in my keys because she used to help with like getting information to the lawyers and so forth, like nothing that would jeopard as her job or anything like that. I called a family member and they told me that there was a decision right and I at first I didn't know. They were hysterical, like crying on the phone and everything. And I actually I even know how to
feel anymore. I just like, good, like you guys can cry. Let me look over the decision and everything and read it over. I should have been like happy, excited and everything like that. But there was no sense of excitement because again earlier of what the lower court did, because here is it, I hope was all the way to the ceiling and they just knocked it all the way down. But that doesn't stop me from from hoping.
But this family member. Who was it? Was it your was it your mom or an uncle or who is it that you spoke to?
It was a Kim uh, the farm of correction officer that I was there. I spoke to her, but then she had already retired from her job.
So did you believe it?
You know what I was like, I got back something that shouldn't have been taken away from you in the first place. So it's not like it shouldn't have been taken away from me.
Of course, So you didn't have really a sense of joy. It wasn't the mirror image of the despair that you felt. It was more of a thing of just sort of justice is done, and now let me move on with my life exactly exactly, like a resolute kind of exactly exactly. Now, let's get on to the other part of the story, which is incredible, Right, let's talk about love. So Kim is kind of an important figure in your story.
Right.
So Kim was a correction officer in Green Correctional Facility, and you developed a relationship with her, not a physical relationship, but sort of a connection exactly with her while you were locked up there. Yes, and then that took on a new meaning when you were released. Everton ended up marrying Kim, who had been a correctional officer in the prison in which he was incarcerated, which sounds like if you put it in a movie, somebody would go, get
the fuck out of here. That's impossible, but it actually happened. How did that go down?
Well? When I was the fight in working on my case, I worked a lot of library where she actually was a supervising officer in that area. She used to work a couple of days there and used to work in the upfront where she would monitor telephone calls, and I normally would call out to my lawyer. Then had this lawyer who was actually represent in Kanna. I was axing for her help, and I wanted her to actually have
other lawyers involve in the case. And I was trying to her telling her I don't need sympathy, I need help, you know, And I don't think I've been get enough help, but I should be getting. And I think came over her this conversation and she was like somewhat taken aback because she said, Damn, this guy's actually innocent and shouldn't
be here. So I guess she developed some feelings there for me then and then you know, and trying to see what she could do to help while I was there, you know, and then after I you know, because of what she's done from over the years, and I, you know, there was anybody at the time helping. I had no support pretty much helping me. At that time. I was everything was done on my own insiety. I have to go to school and kid myself and study whatever I need to be study. In other words, I was like
alone of fighting all these things. And then she came along and tried to help, you know, play help in the process, like can't help to contact lawyers, German suffordance on so speak on my.
Behalf, sort of like an angel in exactly exactly exactly. That's amazing. So and ultimately, you know, you resisted any temptation to develop a physical Really I had to.
I could not develop. Number One, I whispered her job. I whispect her as that person. I would not have done anything to undermine her job.
Right because she would have been in big trouble exactly.
So there was nothing unbecoming inside or anything like that.
Nothing right, And we know that that goes on in prison, right, there's a lot of that. Yes, sure, but you but you resisted, which is a you know, we talked about it before. It's an incredible temptation. You've been alone for over two decades now, but you resisted, which was again a principled and intelligent and thoughtful and difficult thing to do. But the good news is that you eventually were released. She was really almost placed there as somebody to give you that extra supported.
Exactly to exactly I look at it in that sense.
And so that was a great thing. And then ultimately you were freed, and then you contacted her and a relationship developed and which led to ultimately being married.
Yeah, I mean because of what you have done too for me too. I mean she was there when again no one wasn't there ja when I was in the bottom of the pit, understand. So I mean that's somebody who I could never like break ties with. She embedded a place in my heart at all time. It doesn't matter where. She's always going to be in my heart, I mean, and I would always do everything in my poet to me the show that she's Okay.
Well, I mean it's an incredible love story. It's an amazing way to end. But I don't want to end without going back to your time in prison. You mentioned the education program in the prison, and I want to talk about that because I think a lot of people are skeptical, and there's some people out there who say, well,
why should we pay to educate guys in prison? We don't pay enough money for the regular educ or whatever they say, right, And I have a very different view on it, not only from a public safety perspective, where we know that men and women who've been through an education program in prison when they come out are extremely unlikely to reoffend. But how important was it to you to have that education option or that education program available to you in prison.
I mean, it was very important that because if it wasn't for that, who else would I have help to educate myself? I mean, even though it was taken away when I first got my ged, because again, I think Governor Parteka was the government at that time, and I get some of the public was probably sure the same feelings that why should they talk have to be to have to educate these people, you know, for you know,
when they are criminals, unsufford and so on. But they have to realize too that these are the same people who are going to come back and re into society, So why not use it as a cost to help them?
Exactly. I think it's critically important that we provide this option thanks to people, and it allows for a sense of hope. And I know this from having spoken to other exoneries who've been through it. I mean, even Jeff Deskevic has been on the show. I mean he said if not for that, he probably would have killed himself in prison because he had nothing else. I'm glad we
brought that up. Now. We talked a bit earlier about the things that you derived your inspiration from, right, and you talked about some of the books and some of the teachings that allowed you or that helped you, or that inspired you to keep a positive attitude and to be able to carry on day after day in this miserable place, with the loneliness and the frustration and you know all the other terrible things that come with being
in the max of security prison. It was really the books that did it, wasn't it.
Well, I the books did it. And plus I know that I want to be of help to life, to humanity as a whole, and I know I could not just sit there and those focus exclusively on my case. What can I do in the mean? And while I was working on my kids, it was something that I had to do. I couldn't just like make it be my number one, so I have to say say no what during that case, I read especially at mansurcial Meaning
by Victor frank Kill. Victor frank Kill may referenced that it wasn't a condition that kills him, but the lack of hope. And I have experienced the same thing inside that place where I was, because I've seen a lot of guys inside here, Jason. I mean a lot of guys just like after being hit so many times at the board, just gave up and their system just started a fight against them. They have to be put on medication. Some of them just checking to hospital ward and they
just went down and just out. I've experienced so many times. I've experienced this particular guy whose very own immune system, Jason eats away at his own body because of lack
of hope. I've have been been hit so many times at the Board, and I was so privileged to spoke speak to that guy one day in the library and I explained to you that and give telling my situation and how I will never give up hope and never even despite it being hit so many times, that deny so many times that the power board not to give up hope, to keep fighting, keep fighting because eventually you will be released. And like actually a few probably a
year or so later, he was actually released. You know, it's serious, I mean, and these are some of the things that I have seen. And as a result, I told myself, Jason, that I could not sit there and feel any pretty ported despite of what happened to me, despite of the denial of times from the other course and everything, I did not allow that to stop me at first. At first, Yes, I feel dawn when I first get hit, done something like when I was denied
and all these things, but I didn't dwell on it. Jason. The problem is a lot of us dwell too much when something is done. Now we think it's wrong, do something about it. Don't just sit about and try to be angry, are bit or anything, because that's not going to do anything to help find another road that you could go and tackle that problem and get it out of the way.
So if anybody out there is think about having a petty party, they shouldn't invite you because you're not No, I'm not coming.
I don't want to hear it.
You're not coming. But now that's amazing because you actually had a very profound effect on this man who was giving up hope, and you were able to snapping back into reality. And then next thing, you know, a year later, it's like it's like a miracle exactly.
And you know what, And that's the thing about working way. I work boat in the general library under the library, and I was able to meet a lot of people who have been have gone to the board so many times and get hit at the board so many times, and I have I was there to like just give them some hope, like speak to them about listen, look look at my condition. For example. I mean I didn't commit a crime. I'm here suffering as if I did
a crime. But at the same time, I'm not giving up hope because I know I would be vindicated one day. And the same thing, that principle that I use to help me to maintain my mind my sonny inside, you can't use the same principle. I doesn't have to be in prison. The same principle kill be applied. Audio by anyone in any situation.
Well, that is a message that is as good as any that we could possibly share. And I know it's going to help me and so many others to get through things that we're all going to go through at
different times. I do want to just give a quick plug because Everton has been doing some great work helping out risk youth and working with them, but also going and doing public speaking on a professional basis, and so I want to share if it's sorry with you, I want to share your email address so that people can reach out. You speak at schools, at colleges, corporations, basically anywhere that somebody needs to hear this message of tragedy, triumph,
and I guess it's optimism, positivity, and strength. I mean that's really what it is. And so everything in your email address.
Is make a difference and live at gmail dot com.
Okay, that's kind of perfect. Make a difference and live at gmail dot com. A more appropriate email address I couldn't imagine for a guy like you, So reach out, and he's a guy you really want to get to know better than you can even just on the podcast. Everton. It's been a real pleasure and a privilege having you on the show. Is there anything else that you want to say? Or we sign on.
Well, it doesn't matter where we are in this world, it don't matter what we are going through. We must always understand that there is always a way out. And sometimes the problem is that we tend to look too
much for guidance from our five senses. We have to learn to go beyond those five senses because example, when I was going through what I was going through, I was in prison, for example, and I if I was just focusing on my condition, my current situation, I would stay depressed and all these things would have kicked in hopelessness and our dispair would have kicked in. But I realized that there's another side to the five senses that
the five senses doesn't understand, I will never understand. And that's where we have to learn to dwell in that spiritual aspect of who we are, because these are the things that help us to elevate any mountain, gods, amount, any problem. And we have to remember that do not just dwell on your five sentences and what you're going through. Don't focus on those senses. Of course there they are beneficial tools, but they're not the moving fact that they're
not the determined facts in our life. There should be just a vehicle that determines that that only take away and stick instruction from us the spiritual side of who we are. Remember that we have to know how to steer it on, how to guide it. All.
Right, I think that says it all. This has been a very inspiring episode of wrongful conviction and it's all because of you everything. Thank you again for being here.
Thank you for having me.
Wish you all the best, and I'm looking forward to seeing you and watching you do more and share more wisdom with everybody you want to thank you. Don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject dot org to learn how
to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in the show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction.
Podcast.
Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one