Now you're made event introducing ghosts are Wrestling with Freddy Jef died hand of Freddy Prince Junior.
What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Wrestling with Freddy Jeff. Die is on location and unavailable, but we didn't leave you hanging because today we have a very special guest, and I'll start with this. One thing that every wrestling fan has caught themselves saying is while they're watching a match and they see something and they go, oh my god, how did you miss that call? Oh my god, how are you not in the right place?
Oh my god? Turn around and look at what you're missing Right now, today we have brought a very special referee. We have brought mister Daniel Spencer. And just so you know a little history on the man and you understand his expert opinion and I'll soon be educated and he can choose to defend his profession if he so wishes.
He is a senior official at OVW Ohio Valley Wrestling for those of you who don't know and just listen for fun since twenty nineteen, and in twenty twenty made his debut refereeing in Impact Wrestling, which is a part of the premier streaming network, so sign up for that and you can watch Impact there if you're a cable cutter like most of us. Mister Daniel Spencer, how are you, sir? Welcome to the show.
I'm great, Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Nice intro there. I couldn't do it better.
Myself, so thanks man. I have met many a referee. I have had many a late night conversations with a referee, but when I worked in WWE, they were more interested in asking questions than answering questions. And I've never gotten to ask this question to a ref before. How the hell do you become a referee? And what made you say that's what I'm gonna do? You know, it's it's really I got a unique story. Growing up a wrestling fan. I always wanted to be a part of wrestling.
Never really like thought about referee and I mean I had there was the goat referees right here, Charles Robinson's your earl Headner's and was like, those guys are cool, but it was never a thing. I always wanted to be a wrestler. At the time I was you know, I'm five foot eleven, so i'm I got too short. Now nowadays it doesn't matter, but you know, in the early two thousands, it was. It was a big deal.
It was tough, and so yeah, it was tough. So I just kind of thought, well, maybe I'll be a writer and be creative and all that kind of stuff, so I'll maybe go to that round in wrestling. But you know, life got away never really did. I started
a podcast to talk about wrestling. I love for wrestling was I'm in I'm based in Louisvill, Kentucky, So growing up around OVW, I had a lot of friends at OVW, So i'd bring those guys on an interview and stuff like that, and somebody you brought on or doing benefit show, and I literally brought them on and was like talking about the benefit show and I jokingly said, hey, if you ever need a special guest referee, I'm your man, and they were like, yeah, yeah, sure, come on, and
we got them recording. I thought it was just podcast banter, just having fun, and they were like, no, I'm serious, come on out. So I did and I got in the ring, and from the very beginning I loved it, and everybody there could like, you know, not the brag, but they were just shocked that it was my only that was my very first show because I knew I had the mechanics down. I kind of knew things. Not I wasn't perfect obviously, but I knew enough to I
could do this further. And then more connections from there just snowballed into more and I started doing training, started you know, doing more shows, and before I know it, I'm didn't get get to go to OVW and start working learning TV and then from then got the now Impact wrestling. So it's it was a pretty fast jump, but pretty pretty cool. At the same time.
You said training, is there a free school that you go to or do you just get in with a certain promotion and then learn the ropes within the promotion.
It's you want to do your basic training when it comes to ref you know, wrestling type stuff. You know you're taking bumps and ropes and things like that. As far as I mean, there's not there should be a school referee. And I mean I've I have, you know, been seminars and been part of stuff to help train the referee sign because really in a wrestling school, unfortunately, they don't really teach referee and they just yeah, you
just stand here or be here. You know, it's more of a get out the way or they should one hundred percent they should teach refereen And that's way. We do that a lot at OVW, at at the school there and and like I said, there's seminars and whatnot that I've been a part of where I've helped, you know, teach.
But I think it's important for wrestlers to learn the art of referee in because you know, a lot of those wrestlers I've talked to that I've worked with, they're literally like when they when they learn something, they go, I never understood that the importance of you being in this position or you doing that, and it's it kind of opens up their eyes. So I really think there should be and we bring and like I said, we
bring it in OVW. We make at certain a couple of weeks where it's like referee, You've got to kind of learn the importance of a referee because it's going to help them be a better wrestler, and then they want to be a referee. You know, some do transition over to a referee, and you know, there's a lot of former workers that are now referees too as well, so it happens.
It's a very insightful thing. You said that all wrestlers should learn the art of refereeing. I've always found that every director who also went to acting class and learned the craft of that, whether they were any good at it or not, but learn to speak that language, they were always ten times the directors who didn't have that experience, every single time. So it's a great way just to
sort of train your brain anyway. It's like when psychiatrists tell you to brush your teeth with your opposite hand, right, because it activates a different part of your brain, and that's why you feel like a three year old trying to find your mouth with a fork when you when you do it, when you brush with the opposite end.
But when you.
Take in it's like every man, what was that show, the Secret Boss show? I don't know what it was called Hidden Boss something where ye thank you undercover boss, much better titled than mine. You know, they would sort of see the other half of the business. And it's important for the foreman to know what every machine does on the on the on the construction site, and to know how to operate every machine that should be how they got to the foreman position because they had enough experience to.
Do all that.
When you add those extra tools to your belt, it only it only makes you better. And you're right as well. A lot of a lot of guys that wanted to be wrestlers and girls have transitioned into the referee world and they're all doing a good job except when they miss calls, which you know happens.
It does happen. Unfortunately, we know we have two sets of oas. I wish there was other ways around it, but you know, we've that the industries evolved so much, but uh, we still got the one referee in the in the ring. And you know, there's no TV review unless it's important. Sometimes there are reviews, and you know, we get things overturned, but for the most part, you know,
it's things happen and we miss stuff. I was gonna say, you know, well, people people that are I would say, like a you know he's not here today, but you know, like a Jeff Dive like he's a manager, right kind of kind of I don't see him as a wrestler, seem like a manager. He's one of those that likes to just get up on top of the apron. He're like, dude, what are you doing? You got to get down, And then something happens behind me, and I have no idea what's going on.
So he could be a good distraction. He could be a good distraction. I'll get into some constructive criticism down the road. But a lot of my listeners just listen for fun and they're not educated on wrestling, and they tell me they learn a lot about it just through listening to this, whether they watch or not. I need you to break down and explain what a referee's responsibilities are as comfortably as you can in to people that have never because it's not like boxing or the UFC
in any way, shape or form. You're not just observing and officiating. There is a next level of communication that has to exist that I want people to understand. So try and illustrate that for me if you could.
Yeah, So there there's a lot, I don't know what. The curtain's been pulled back so much in this industry now, so it's not I'm not really going to give away too much that kind of it's not out there and you know you've seen it and other stuff too as well. But one of the things that I mean, obviously number one, our job is always safety. It's safety for the for the talent and the ring, making sure there everything's good even when they take a big bump and they're selling.
To make sure that the selling is is selling the right way. And it's not like opaving to stop this match and move on, you know where you know, twenty years ago, it was like they just continued. You know, we luckily enough to know so much about the concussions and different things when it comes to the body that we you know, we're able to kind of stop what we need to stop or you know, finish a match
right away when we need to finish it. But but the other things too is that, especially when you're working with TV, we have IFBs, we have ear pieces in our ear and we're being communicated from you know, the agent in the back or the TV truck and different you know, people letting us know where things are time wise, what's going on if we you know, need to for in the camera shot things like that too as well. We've got to do and and you know Tom Cus
yeah there might be TOMQ said as well. But the other thing too is that you know, you're communicating back and forth between the talent and the ring. I mean a lot of times you have to let people know what let them let each other know what's going on, you know, for the most part, and I'll just leave it at that. I won't go too much detailing, although again, curtain's been pulled back so much that people kind of understand. Yeah, but it's never a.
Push bro, It's only what you're comfortable saying.
It's a very important job, and you know it's we are not you know, the joke around is that we don't referees, don't celtic as. We cop tickets, right, so it's like never heard that. No, really, yeah, we don't sell them, we comp them. So there's you know, they're not and what that means is they're not there to see us. They're there to see the talent in the ring.
So our job is to kind of be there when we need to be there, but be be the you know, be unseen woman need to be unseen, which is usually ninety percent of the time we need to be unseen. So that's that's kind of the other hard part of the job is not taking the glory from because it's not about us. It's about the talent in the ring, whether there's two or four or five, whatever, how many of them's in the ring.
I knew a wrestler who will remain nameless, that had a hard time remembering spots and matches outside of the big ones. And so when he would build a match with his opponent, he would always ask that the referee for that match be there as well, so that he could communicate anything that he may have forgotten in the match.
And this wrestler, I already said he so they'll know it's a but he depended on this referee so much and they had such an amazing relationship that it was like a shorthand with like hand signals, little things like that that would just cue him into everything that he may or may not have forgotten, Like they would just go He would go through those motions, whether the guy forgot or not. So it just looked like, you know, normal behavior. But that was how he remembered a lot
of the important spots and matches. Because this was a guy that would get you know, big time promos and have, you know, to carry segments and things like that, and so he had so much crap going on in his head that he'd be like, yo, I just forget spots sometimes. And you know, if I'm with a guy that doesn't want to improv and we have specific things, I got
to be there for him. Has anything like that ever happened with you where you have to help out with certain like you know, hey guys, let's get here, let's get there, those types of things.
Yeah, quite often. Actually it's not a knock on the talent who it is, because you know, it's it's just it's it's so much remember and what's crazy about it. Here's like I've got to know four or five matches the whole night, so like I've literally got to got to help rememberize. I mean, if it's a bigger match, I usually I definitely know all the details, but I've got to like, okay, I've got to go over it's
more than once because you know this is important. But now many times I've had to be in the ring and they say where they're at, where we at, and I have to let him know where they're at, you know, and and it's and and that just that's just you know, communicating the right way and you know, making sure because words case scenario if they're lost and they do something that can cause them to get injured too as well, because they thought something else was coming and something you know,
something else came instead and knocked them sideways, you know. So it's very important. But yeah, it's very that's a very common. There's you know, one of the guys who was my mentor and and kind of took me to uh kind of a I call it another level in wrestling coach me was Brian Hebner, who is the son of you know, Earl Hebner. So Brian kind of took me under his tutelage for about eighteen months when he was back with Impact, and I learned so much about how to do that because he was he was like
that for Kurt Angle. Kurt Angle, he says, I literally was I had to do all the Kurt Angle's matches because I literally helped him the entire time. And and he being instilled that with me, know your matches, know your be know, have a relationship with your with your talent, so that way you can, you know, communicate so well with them because they're gonna.
He Kurt's one of the greatest to ever wrestle, one of the greatest ever wrestle and still to have that relationship with your referee is such a that's such an amazing thing. And I know the curtain has been pulled back, but I think that's one of the beautiful things about the business is the fact that as unsung as the referees are, as far as heroes, y'all are happy with that.
You prefer that. I've heard you multiple times talk about not being seen or noticed and multiple times talk about wrestler safety, and that's what you sort of pulled every conversation back to. And I think that's the way all referees should be in all sports. By the way, all you referees out there that make it about you, that's some bs that happens in the NBA all the time. You need you need to have a seminar for them.
All right, So more fun question, more fun question. And then maybe it's a two parter.
Or maybe it's the same answer for book.
What's the most nervous you've been for a match? And what was your first championship match?
Who was in it? What was it?
Were you nervous?
Is it? Holy shit? Up?
I don't want to screw up? Or you like, oh, it's my moment I'm gonna shine like I don't. I honestly want to know. It can be cocky. It's not cocky if you did it. My grandfather would always say, it ain't bragging if you did it. Freddy, all right, fair enough.
I would say probably the most nervous I've ever been. Obviously that I guess you go back to that first show ever, but that's that was nothing in front of a one hundred people whatever. But the most numbers I've been was doing the semi main event for the Rick Flairs last match show. It was for the Impact Knockouts CHAMPIONSHI World Championship. It was Jordan Grace against Deanno Prazzo
and oh Rachel Ailering. So it was it was that match and very nervous because it was Rick Fare's last match and over nine ten thousand people in the crowd and it was seen everywhere and it was pretty pretty amazing. But then Rachel also tweaked her knee in the middle of this match, like right when it started, so like there was the whole safety thing going on there, and I'm trying to communicate that to the back and also get them to get the other two to still wrestle
it was it was it was Nerve. That was probably the most nervous I've been in the most recent years I can think of. As far as a first ever title match, it was actually OVW versus Impact, which is first one of my first relationship with Impact came in. It was in March of twenty nineteen, and it was it was Tony gun versus Emmy Callahan and it was like the OVW Championship because Sammy Callahan stole it from
Tony Gunn who was the champion. And there was that and so that was probably my first memorable one that I and I'm looking back, I don't believe that any about any other one was I had any other ones that were bigger than that until I went to Impact and then did they a world type my first world title match with Eddie Edwards versus RVD and that was fun too as well. That was pretty memorable as well.
So all right, Daniel Spencer, it's time it's time to introduce a brand new segment on Wrestling with Freddy the segment I like to call I got.
Some sweet sound effects for this too.
Ref court Dun dundun. Those were the sweet sound effects that was that was?
That was impressive? All right? Man?
So I started watching wrestling in the early eighties, and I'm forty seven years old now. I got a lot of ref gripes. Some are just some after talking to you, not so much, because you're right. There are a lot of things going on, however, and we won't be able to do it every week, although I'd love to have you on every week, but Jeff will get jealous once
in a while. I would love to have you on the show, and we will address the week in wrestling, and I will bring up what I feel are the worst offenses that I have seen in that week of wrestling, and you will have an opportunity as the public defender in an episode of Law and Order, but a damn good one, an opportunity to defend the offense and get your man or woman a verdict of not guilty. What do you do? How do you feel about this?
I like that idea. Yeah, I'm gaining for that. Yeah.
Listen, there's historical events with with Earl, obviously that I'm sure he hates having to relive every day of his life, but it's it's the most famous one, and then it's not even his fault. That's the that's the worst part about it.
El Earl made a lot of money off of that years later, so I think he's okay with he did Yes, good for around. There's still t shirts that they say, damn, damn right, I did it. They're just they're just white, you know, they do not stripes. Yeah, they say damn right, I did it. And it's uh, it's he made a lot of money off those, and it was it's pretty he'll tell you.
He go.
Yeah. Now granted he you know, he realized later he might as well just own it, right, I mean, so yeah.
Good for him, man, good for you never know how something like that's going to hit somebody, because you know, it was every every arena he was in every show, you would hear people you screwed. Oh yeah, yeah. He can't go to Canada. Still, that's like Brian Bosworth level stuff.
Do you remember the Brian Bosworth, the NFL player, Like, yeah, yeah, they would he would go to He got drafted by the Seattle Seahawks and he made all these shirts in that said like kill Brian Bosworth and sold them in Denver to Denver fans, and like every city he would go to. He was so outspoken. People hated him so much. It was like MJF. When MJF was like all full heel before he was the Brochaco and people hated him in every city they would go to there and nobody
knew he was the owner of them. Nobody knew he was the guy who designed the shirts. There was just a booth that would sell like you know, fuck you, Brian Bosworth, like all this shit, and he was just reaping in all the money from it.
And that's what Haurle did. Man, he flipped it up. I love that. Wow, that's that's that's pretty amazing. That's pretty amazing.
We oh, yeah, man, we have to get you a screwjob so that you can flip it and make shirts and say you're damn You're damn right.
I cheated. Well, I mean, you know, if it works out career wise, financially wise, sure, but.
We'll see otherwise. Yeah, otherwise, my man Daniel Spencer calls it down the middle.
People.
All right, So let me give you an example, all right. And I'm not going to name this referee because this is not an official referee court, all right, So we'll give him that piece. Now, people, want to look up this referee and do their own research. That's fine, and the only information I'll give is it was on August fourteenth Cody versus Finn, So now people should be able to figure that out. We will get into this very case in our episode of Thursdays on Sanctioned. You'll have
to tune in later and wait for that. I would like to thank all of our listeners for today's for your attention. Today, I like to thank our guest Daniel Spencer. He's going to be with us on Unsanctioned Thursdays on behalf of the Great Jackpot. Jeff Die who too bad? Jeff, you don't get to be a wrestler, Daniel says, you'd be a better manager.
Ha ha.
I'm Freddie Brienz Junior and this was wrestling with Freddy. This has been a production of Iheart'smichael Toura podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.