Forbidden Door Was Amazing!

Turned out to me exactly as I was told the day of the show was announced. A lot of people upset didn't get dream matches. My god, what an awesome show. It ended up being in the ring, one great match after another. There was nothing on the show that you could even remotely call a bad match. There were certainly matches better than others, but holy smokes, what a show. Talk about that. Here on the program today, we've got

all of the matches. I've got updates on John Moxley and Adam Cole, one of whom was injured and one of whom was not. So that's part of the update right there. We have also got an update on Vince McMahon long form New York Magazine article written by the author of the upcoming Vince McMahon unauthorized biography. In a long form interview, a former w w E wrestler corroborated female referee Rita Chatterton's sexual assault accusations against Vince McMahon.

We'll tell you about that here today on the show. We have also got Raw tonight, the twenty year anniversary of John Cena and w w E, which is funny because man time flies. At the same time, it's only been twenty years, Jimminy Christmas feels like it's been well, I guess it has been decades now, hasn't it. We've also got SmackDown, We've got Rampage a w is on Wednesday with Blood and Guts. N x T is tomorrow

and we will take your feedback as well. Four to five seven eight zero seven five six six is the phone number. That is four to five seven eight zero seven s six Brian at Wrestling Observer dot com at Brian elba is on Twitter and if you want more on Forbidden Door Wrestling Observer dot com. If you're a subscriber, did our and fifteen minutes with Anny Hour and fifteen minutes with Dave last night. So we'll love to get into back at a moment Observer Live back in the show.

Brian Alvarez here, Wrestling Observer Alive. Mike Number Bed also Wrestling Observer dot Com. We're gonna try and get separate BBS video up here one way or the other at some point here on the program today. Well, last night was a w Forbidden Door and I want to start with an update, although we don't really have much of an update on Adam Cole if he didn't see the show last night. Adam Cole suffered was believed to be a concussion during his match for the i w U

g P World Heavyweight title. It was j White, Hangman Ocada and Adam Cole and I don't know the move. I don't know when I was given the impression. It was actually somewhat early in the match, and then he worked the entire rest of the match with a concussion and uh, for whatever reason, it wasn't until the very end of the match that he was in there with Okada. Okada went for the Rainmaker. Cole is supposed to duck, which he did, but then he just stayed down and Uh, Adam,

I'm sorry. J White chimped in the ring, tossed Ocatta out of the ring, rolled over Cole, held him down and uh and pinned him. And then afterwards they had the doctor hit the ring to check on Adam Cole, and uh, he did leave under his own power. I was told that, you know, when they got him backstage to examine him, he was feeling all right, was what I was told, but he was clearly there was an injury.

And this is you know, he's been working with a shoulder injury if you watched the show, I mean his shoulders all taped up, and he had had another injury in the Samoa Joe match, which I believe was also a concussion. So he had to two concussions in the span of a month, and he needs time off to get better. And hopefully he gets a lot of time off to get better, because you know that's two matches where not only did he suffer concussion, but he still

managed to work an excellent match with a concussion. So a healthy Adam Cole is what we need. And uh, it's never good to suffer two head injuries in the span of one month, so wishing all the best to him and hopefully gets checked out and everything is all right,

and that's the update on him. There was also a main event with John Moxley in Hiroshitanahashi and John Moxley's doing the match and he rolls outside and all of a sudden he comes back to the ring and he is gushing blood and uh, I immediately because it's John Moxley, just thought, well he uh he bladed why, I don't know it's all he had hit with a pipe or anything like that. He just came up and he's he's

bleeding everywhere. So I'm doing the show with the vinny and uh and I think it was a vinny, or maybe it was the announcers and Vinny, but you know, everyone starts talking about how I think they clonked heads on the on the sling blade and it was it was hard way, and I never thought that it would be hard way because I don't know if John Moxley actually travels town to town with blades, but I do

know that this brother's got a lot of blades. And uh, I think in the the Filthy Tom Lawler Fred Rosser match, I think that they got the actual blade for that match from John Moxley, so he may actually have like a doctor's kit full of blades. But anyway, so once everybody was asking about it, I I sent a message asking if it was a uh, if it was hard Way, and I did not mention the word blade. I I

simply asked hard Way and the answer was yes. So it's possible that the person that I sent this message to was confused and when they read it, they thought I was asking if it was a blade job and they said yes. But I was told that it was it was hard Way. But at the end of the day, that aspect doesn't matter. It was a Moxley match, Edie's

bleeding everywhere. Now what does matter is uh. Then during the Observer radio show, Dave mentioned that during the post show press conference, and I don't know if this was during the press conference or if it was like you know, jibber jabber after the press conference, because those things happened, but he mentioned that Moxley had stated that he might have a concussion, and what I was told was that

Moxley does not have a concussion. And if you've ever watched a like a Moxley interview and Actually, I think that he did this exact same interview after the Filthy Tom match at to five. Whenever he has a bloody match, he goes, uh, you know, I may have blood loss. I might be concussed. Uh, it's part of his his in character stick. So anyway, he does not have a concussion.

So John Moxley is fine. He may or may not have bladed, but he did bleed everywhere, and he did beat Hiroshi Tanahashi to win the a W Interim Championship, and so at some point he will face uh, he will face see him Punk. When see him Punk is ready to return from his quote lower leg injury. But we got a lot to talk about on this show.

I guess we'll start with just the main event. Mike, what did you think, as you are represented here by g Raff, of the main event of this program, I thought, other than the finish of the four way when he came to the title matches, you know, the obvious wonkiness there for the reasons that you explained, I thought that was a really great match, and you know, I was

thinking about it when I was watching that. When he comes to Hangman page, there's probably some people and in fact, I know there are on the outside of a w that look at him and go, I don't I don't see what they see. The booking is this, The booking

is that. But you know what, he's kind of like, He's gonna end up being like a w sting because no matter what, he's going to rise to the occasion and no matter what you've said about the build into that match, and a lot of people had a lot of opinions, especially on that one, he's great and he's going to be such a future star for them, and he for all of the talk going into that match and how wonky it was, he really rose above and I thought that was great, and I thought j White

was great with that in that match too, with Tanahashi and Moxley. Tanahashi is just the greatest. You know, I've been a long time fan of his. I've been able to watch him for a long time. And he's an older guy who has taken a beating and you could see sometimes where he is moving a little bit mechanically, but hey, he can still turn it on and he's still one of the best in the world when he does. And a perfect dance partner with with John Moxley in

the aspect of we've seen Tanahashi against everybody. We've seen him in the pure garbage match against Kento, which was a reference during the match. We've seen him in all sorts of these different such wations. But with John Moxley, who you can slow it down a little bit. For Tanahashi, you don't have to worry about Nato or a bushy matches where he feels like he's got to keep up.

It's a little bit slower with Moxley. And with Moxley it brings him up a little bit because sometimes with the punching kick and he's got a certain style of match and you know there's gonna be plunder at some point, he's probably gonna bleed, which he did, but it brings him up a level two to work with Hanahashi. And I thought it was a great cap or on what was a great A pretty great night. Now it's is Was it one of the all time great shows? I'll

leave that for other people to discuss. I don't really think it was, but I don't really care. You know, this was for me a step one of these two companies working together for the first time. I understand that

there were politics involved. I understand that there were injuries, and I tried to block out as much as the of the banter and stuff on social media last week because there was so much that at the end of the day, it was just like, you know, when everything's gonna be said on come Sunday night, Monday morning, people

are going to be satisfied with what they saw. And for the most part, from what I've seen, and again maybe my timeline is a little bit too clean or a lot cleaner than other people's, everybody seems to be in agreement that it was a really good show. The surprises some expected like Cesarro, it deliberate as expected. Some surprises like Shabbata coming out there, I mean, with his music hitting the entire place, going ballistic. Incredible moments happened.

So we can we can nitpick it to death. We can talk about some of the things pick this show. What are you talking about? If you're gonna nitpick this show, get off the chat today and go away, you nerds. This was an all timer. You know, it's funny about this being an All timers people. People are gonna talk about this for a year the way they talk about that first All in. It's just this, this classic show, top to bottom. There was not anything resembling a bad

match on this show. Like the closest you could come to to say that there was like a bad match in the show was like the thunder rosa Tony Storm match, and that was not a bad match. So the point of this is there's so much talent in a w and there's so much talent in New Japan that for one year people are gonna talk about this is being an all time great show. But then next year there's this door too, and then all of a sudden, that's gonna be even better than this one. He'll question me, Mike,

you'll find out this show today. No, it's not. Thank god, there's a break. Go fix your camera, Observer Live. I got the show. Bran Albert is here Wrestling Observer Live. Yes, we got Mike's video back just in time for me to go over the entire show. And I'll let him say a word for a second. This great show, this forbidden door of greatness. We had Chris Jericho, Minor Suzuki,

Sammy Cavara beating Eddie Kingston Wheeler. You didn't showed a Umino eighteen minutes fifty seven seconds, great great opening match. They had a lot of star making performances on this show, and the one in this match was old Show Domino.

God darned, this guy just was out of this world and the place went crazy for this guy, and Jericho sold like crazy for him before finally hitting him with the uh whatever they call it the back elbow and pinning him in the middle of the ring to uh get a big win to set up the Blood and Guts show which is coming up on Wednesday and uh. Then later in the show, they were interviewing show Amino and Jericho showed up and burned him with a fireball because he's a wizard. So one of these days, one

of these days show Domino's beating Chris Jericho. I don't think it's gonna be for a while, but that day is gonna come. And this was a great opener. Then we had another great match FTR beat United Empire and Rapungi Vice. They did an angle where Dax Harwood. They they there's no secret that this show was pretty much cursed, and so they decided to do a spot where someone got injured on the show, and unfortunately, uh, someone actually got injured on the show later, which totally sucked, but

this was at least a worked injury. Dax went down, sold his shoulder, walked to the back, and then later he comes back out with his shoulder taped up. It's only about like three or four minutes, so it wasn't like, you know, he missed the entire match and then won the titles. So he comes back, the place goes crazy

because he's back. He makes his giant come back. They go back and forth, and finally at the end they hit the Big Shatter Machine on Rocky Romero, the former Shatter Machine now the Big Rig and they win the titles. There now the i w d g P Ring of Honor and Triple A Tag Team Champions, which one would think sets up a match with the Young Bucks to unify all four titles. So we'll see if that happens. Uh maybe that they could hold that off until uh till all out. But this was a great match. Fans

went nuts. This was good stuff. Pac won the four Way. How did you guys see that that show I did with Denise where he did predictions? Yeah, who predicted Pac? Oh? That would be me. I predicted him and he won beat Malachi Black, Mirro and Clark Connors. Clark Connors was the guy that got the star making performance here, and they set it up great because the first half of this match they treated this guy like, oh, he's the fourth wheel in this match. We got the three big stars.

It was supposed to be a sheet, but he got hurt. Oh, Clark's gonna get in the match, the guy that lost in the qualifying match, and man, they just beat him down and they beat him down and he'd try and do something on Miro and Miro which is no sell

at look at him and then beat him down. But then Miro goes for a spear and he goes through this table and Clark gets to ring and this dude made the greatest comeback, and these fans are losing their minds, are channing, let's go Clark and he would get cut off and they started booing like Malachi Black or whoever because they wanted to see more Clark. And then finally, uh, we get the return of Mero. He puts the game

over on Pac. Uh broken up. Uh, there's the black mist right in the face, which I guess because it's a four way is not at e Q and then finally pockets the Black Arrow immediately into the Brutalizer, he submits Clark Honnors and Pock is the first ever a w All Atlantic Mid Pacific Champion. And this was another great match. Then we had Sting, Darby and Shingo versus the Young Bucks and l Phantasmo. Everybody in this match decided we're gonna make Sting into a super star because

you know, like Stings not a superstar. So he's the young talent that got elevated in this match. Dude, they did everything. He's no selling this and dad, he's beaten. Dudes up. He was awesome in this match. And you mentioned like Hiroshi Tanaha, she's gonna be the new japan version of Sting. There's a big difference at this point,

and I don't know how. I don't know how. What about Hangman Page, I said Hangman Page was going to be a W's version where no matter what the outside thinks, no matter how he is booked, the fans are going to take Hayman Page and go he's ours. He was here from day one and he always lives up to when he should in the ring, and Sting was go ahead, Sting was what was always always that way for w CW fans. I see, well, I'm looking at it a different way. I'm looking at this stings the old They

can go until he's sixty. Oh Man, dom Dom, you better get on this guy. You texted me, Um, you weren't even at the studio on Friday and you had to bury me over text message. Now look at this guy here, we finally get his video and now he's gonna got a violation here. You should be ashamed of yourself, Mike, I'm disgusted. But anyway, young young hero Sting the biggest superstar in this match, and uh, he was just awesome. And then finally at the end, Shingo had made in

Japan on Fantasmo got the pin. I thought this match was great, and we're not even going to Mike's opinion at this point. He's censored. Then we had thunder Rosa Tony Storm tail of two matches. First five minutes technical wrestling, grappling. It was awesome. Second second five minutes. It was all right. I didn't think it was great, but it was all right. It wasn't bad, I'll tell you that much. Tony did the uh, the most brutal finisher at all of a

w which somehow isn't a finisher. The flying hip attack to the face of thunder Rosa and then hit her with the thunder Rose hit the final reckoning. Dustin's finish got the p and I thought, this, uh, it was good. It was not a great match. When this is the weakest match on the show. You had a great show, you know what I'm saying, everybody, all of you that are allowed to speak. And we had will Osprey versus Orange Cassidy. Oh man, what a match. It started out.

It started out just fine, like the first five seven minutes. I was like, that's all right, the sure ain't no will Osprey Nick Wayne match. But then the second half of this match, they turned it up and they just they had a banger, as they called it. They had a banger, and uh, will Osprey end up getting to

win as everybody would expect. But this was actually very much like the Nick Wayne match in the sense that nobody believed that Nick Wayne was gonna beat will Osprey, and nobody believed that Orange Cassidy was gonna beat will Osprey. But they had a couple of near near falls there at the end where the fans forgot that they knew the guy couldn't win and they went nuts for him. But very good match. Then afterwards we had a big schmaz and who should come down to make the save?

But of all people, not Kenny Omega but Shabbada Shabata's music hit. The place goes crazy. He comes down, he beats up Assie open, he uh, he lays out will a spray and then Orange Cassidy awards him with the aviators and a great moment. I don't think it's actually leading to anything after Shabata, you know, did what he did at the Tokyo Dome. But man, the fans here in this building, they loved it. Claudio Cassannoli and Zach Saber Jr. When eighteen minutes it was a very very

good match. I did not think it was an excellent match, but I thought it was very good. Cloudio did a superior job selling, like to the point where people are asking after if he's injured, but he wasn't. He's just great. And Zach Saber Jr. Didn't do is as many counters as he does in your your typical Zach Saber junior nuch pan style match. This would have been like, uh, when Zack Saber Jr. Was in n x T for the was that tournament that he was in? What was the tournament he was in with n x T. You

can speak for a second. Just watch your language. The the Cruise roy Title, the Cruise the Weight Classic Classic, Cruise the Way Classic. This would have been like one of those matches where he's in there. It's a very good match, but it's like a uh, you know, it's a cloud EO w w E style match and it was great, like it would have been the best match on most w w E pay per views. But in the end, Uh, Claudio did hit the uppercut, he hit the arm trap, power bomb, he got the win heading

into blood and guts. It was his debut. It doesn't take anything away from the Bryan Danielson dream match was Zach Saber Jr. The right man went over and it was a very good match. Uh. The j White Hangman Adam cole Olcada match. We talked about this. It was a really really good match until the finish. It was sad. You know, I don't know what else to say about it,

but you know, it started slow. All of these guys would have had a better singles match, but they did some great four away spots there at the end until the wheels fell off the wagon and uh and J White retained. That led to Moxley Tanahashi made event, which we talked about, and Uh, I didn't think Moxley slowed it down at all for Tona Hashi. I actually thought the opposite. I thought he went in there and it was like, we're gonna drag a twenty Tonahashi match out

of you. You're you're putting words in my mouth there. I didn't say that anybody was going to be dragged down or anything, not to say dragged down. You said he went slower for him, did you not? Well, I mean in comparison, I was talking about when he comes to Tonahashi, in there with Niato and in there with a Bush, in there with those expectations, the Shingo and what he has expectations for himself. The fact that he can wrestle guys like Moxley, like Jericho, be able to

do some things more in an American style. Again, it just to me, it elongates his career and it chose another diverse side of him that again we've seen it all with Tanahashi. I'm not saying anything that's like brand new or anything like that, but when you always see him in Japan and then you see him against foreigners like Moxley who's got a distinct style, it's a nice balance. And they tended they worked with each other. I thought

incredibly well. Well, they did work incredibly well. But man, this Moxley was he was just going balls to the wall in this match right here, and and tana Hashi was gonna stay with him or die. And you know what he did. He stayed with him. Boy, this guy got put through the ringer in this match right here. Moxley hit him with the death Writer, which in fact they called the death Writer, and he pinned him to

win the title. And then I know everyone hated the post match, but they did a big brawl to set up the blood Guts and in fact Claudio went out there and did a twenty reper giant swing out old Matt. It was great. Back in a moment with more Observer Live, Hey hey, look, if you didn't like that post show brawl, I ain't gonna argue it. I tweeted my idea which was after the match should have had them do their

respect thing and then seeham Punk's music hits. He comes out on crutches, He presents the interim title to the winner, and then they do the stare down because that's the one that's coming up. It's Chicago, dude. You could add se him Punk come out crutches, but they didn't. They did a big brawl to set up the blood and Guts show this coming Wednesday, which should be bloody be my guess a little take a prediction, dude, They're better

enough be guts. This place has got enough problems. If someone's guts come out on Wednesday, I mean it's time to just like wrap it up. That's true. On national TV, they may have to after that, they may be told that the yeah, they shouldn't do that, but they might get a violation. You know, everybody that wants it doesn't have to be ranked, whether it's a great pay per

viewer or not. It was a great first step, and as was mentioned, there were a lot of people that got to be seen for the first time by a

new audience. For anybody, anything anybody says about how tuned in that a W fan base is the new Japan, Not everybody is going to be it's impossible for tap and so to see Desperado for the first time, to see Clark Connors for the first time, to see some of these people, and then to see some of these other people that other people know, you know, the pop that Shabbata God for somebody who doesn't know really what he actually means to New Japan and one of the

Three Musketeers and then generation with Tanahashi and Nakamura and they don't know how you know, he's training the guy Clarke Connors who had that comeback in the Ring, Well, Shabbatah helped teach that because those fundamentals, you know, will never die. And you see have great of a white meat baby face he gets to be right now. I mean, you want to see more of those guys. Phantasmo obviously what Pantasmo does. If you don't like the young Bucks,

you're not gonna like Phantasmo. In fact, you're gonna probably hate him even more. Oh well, he's incredibly talented. He's great. And when he turns some of that stuff down, because sometimes I believe it's too much too especially when you watch him New Japan, he's great and he's physically impressive and he's fantastic. And Osprey, you can bitch and moan and wind and complaining about Orange Cassidy and him being

the choice for that match. Fine, whatever, they had the match, and there could not have been a better opponent to make Orange Cassidy look so good, then somebody as good as well Osprey, somebody is physically impressive as well Osprey. And I just again, there was a lot that took place with a lot of the complaints leading into this show that hopefully have evaporated away. Apparently not because I didn't realize that the post match got such a you know,

it was annoyed people so much. I mean, I thought, honestly the giant swing would have alleviated any you know, complaints that anybody would have about the thing, but I guess not. But bottom line is, it was a really good show. And again this was a great step one. This isn't even as good as they could do you know tomorrow, let alone a year from now when things are figured out better, when they'll probably do another one

of these. And you know it also, even though there's nobody in the g one, if you're a new japan fan, it makes you think about the Dome show, and it makes you think about some of the possibilities over those three days that New Japan is going to want to do everything to make sure that they can sell as many tickets as possible to and get as many eyeballs on. You know, if there are good things coming from this,

and that was the whole point of this show. Proson here says, this is my first time watching a lot of the New Chepan wrestlers wrestle, so I had a blast not going to lie. I knew Orange Cassidy was not going to win, but that near fall after the beach break got me. This person here says, why is it impossible for crowds to I don't know why they can't count the giant swings close enough? Might make your issues. I said twenty and David to correct me to nineteam,

and let's give that crowd credit. You know, odds are anybody that was watching the buy in probably already had their mindset on buying this show. If you're going to do something else, then you were going to do something else. But when you if there was somebody that lingered on when you're watching those matches that are essentially they're thrown together Nick Camarado and Lance Archer. But you hear that crowd and you feel that atmosphe fear. I mean, it

was a big night. It was a big That's the one thing a W's got going for it's still right now when he comes to those pay per views, is those crowds are electric, and they want to be seen, they want to be part of the show, and they want to make sure that they try to amplify things. So that's the one thing they really have going for them. I have had multiple people talk about how awesome it was to be able to watch a giant swing with twenty revolutions that did not have forty cuts, which I

had one thousand percent agree with. It was infuriating, you know. It's one thing like you know people complain about, oh, you know they he had swung twenty times with the crowd can of three or whatever. Well, you know, at least you can try and count, you know, hard it is to count revolutions when they're cutting the camera every half revolution. Forty camera cuts for twenty Why do you have to cut the camera for a giant swing? Just let me look at it. Look at the state that

this country is in. Are you prize that there are people here that can't count for all the complaining and negativity this person says, hey into the show, as well as all the injuries and card changes for Bin Door ended up being exactly like some of us said. It would be a great pro wrestling show with some awesome matches, and easily one of the top three shows of the

year so far. By the way, speaking of injuries, UM, I don't know, uh, maybe something changed this morning, but as of last night, with the exception of Adam Cole, it appears nobody else got hurt on the show, so thank god for that. Dare I ask you this question, which I will How long has Adam, called, to your knowledge, been the shoulder been really hurt for I don't know, but it's been a while. That's what I was before

the Samoa Joe match. It seems like I wonder how if there's been something lingering even a lot longer than that,

you know. I I do wonder that now again, he's so good, He's so good, you know, and I just hopefully he's better again that the concussions, you know, Thinking about him when you were saying it during the opening, I didn't really think about the concussions and the time that he had him you know, it is close together and everything, and it's just, yeah, he's just another one of those guys that it's there's injuries that happen all the time for the big names for this to be

this many big names at the top of their company, and frankly in w W as well. I mean, it's the timing of all of this is horrific, but it's amazing how the the industry will survive. Forbidden Door is reminding me of how awesome crossover shows can be. Leads me to want the ultimate crossover show. Well, you ain't gonna get w W E versus a W brother unless one of them is going out of business, which I do not see happening anytime soon. And we saw how that went and I don't want to see a a

redo of that again either. This person here says, do you think a W will introduce new japan wrestlers better before Forbidden Door to, Well, they already have, like they already have. Now we're we're further along now then we

were a month ago. So, as I mentioned countless times, you're going to see more of these new Japan guys make appearances in a W because New Japan has New Japan Strong, and they're gonna be running shows all year long, and you're gonna have guys that come over here and they come over there, and by the time next June rolls around, if you're a regular viewer of a W, there will be far fewer instances of you going I

have no idea who that is. If you've never watched New Japan show, you're gonna see and if you bought the show, you've already seen virtually everybody except Nito, especially if you watched the uh um pre show. So yes, we're already in a way better place now than we were a month ago. For the next Forbidden Door. Yeah, I wonder if r O age you can get off to a really good start with that pay per view

that they've announced coming up. Let's say they're able to get a good jump on things and they feel like they're in a good place. To me, that can only help New Japan Strong and having that crossover. There's so many people on the a W roster that are gonna need seasoning and and need seasoning and just want to travel that could again migrate their way to Japan learn things.

You know, if you got a guy again, why would you not want to have a good relationship with Shabbata and have some guys trained under there if you think that they are mentally that's the route they want to take, you know, So I there's gonna be a lot and again that also builds names, you know, it also builds up, you know, some familiarity with some of these guys coming over.

Like again, all showed Amino needed to do was be touched by John Moxley and you see where things went from there with with with Moxley and his relationship and how big of a story he came home with since instantaneously because of that. So they did make mistakes here, but everything wasn't really jumbled leading into this thing again.

Step one, they'll learn from our mistakes and just by this show happening, people have a lot better idea and handle on who some of these other new Japan athletes are. First and one, no, if a Ring of Honors should run house shows, I feel like they could sell smaller venues out and be profitable. No chance, no chance, Ring of Honors should be running house shows right now. What they should be doing is they have to run TV tapings. But you have to have TV before you can run

TV tapings. Once you've got TV, then you can run some TV tapings. A W is barely running house shows for crying out loud. Ring of Honor is not going to do well doing house now what you could do, what you could do is Dark in Elevation. What's the difference between Dark and Elevation? Besides the name, I mean you could I mean there's two things you do. Dark could be a W and Elevation could be a Ring

of Honor. Or you just keep Dark in Elevation the way they are, but called them a W slash ro o h Dark in Elevation, and you have Ring of Honor matches, and you have a W matches on Dark in Elevation. Get those guys some time in the ring. If people want to see some Ring of Honor, they can watch it on Dark and Elevation. If they don't, they don't have to, but like that will give them something to do where you're already running the event anyway,

you're not gonna risk losing money. And then once you know you can do house shows and out shows make financial sense. They don't even make financial sense for a

W right now. So no, no, no ring of honor, house shows, no. I mean they'd be better off doing things like sending people to the Monster Factory, you know, or or training centers around where those guys can get work and also have seminars on that weekend and do things that way to get them more ring time, or to do this that in the third I mean to work with somebody else, I mean, otherwise that that's it's insanity to run house shows you have who know, he

hasn't made any local sponsor. I mean there's a lot that goes into trying to get this thing off the ground and running house shows, you know, and just being big and being able to say I can rent that building. You know, you can you that, But you know there's

more to it than that. What's gonna be also interesting is a lot of people talked about and I didn't think it was gonna matter because again, the people I thought were going to order this pay per view will But next month, you know, with a a R O H pay per view, you know, are people going to want to spend fourty or fifty bucks on that? How's

that going to be priced? Because I don't know if they've already advertised that or anything, but again, you know, can you get eyes back on Ring of Honor and make it something where people want to spend money and spend the time in an area that's so crowded. And it is noted here that they have had pure title defenses on Dark. They've had Mercedes Martinez and the women's title on Dark. So they are doing it. Uh, these are I mean they have somewhat of a roster, so

I think that they have storylines. You know, obviously the Sottenham Singh Samoa Joe deal being you know the top of that heap. So and you know Brian Cage is Brian Cage. You know, he's technically still signed. He's over there. They have people that are tabbed that they want to use. So I don't know how Tony has got the time to come up with plans. I don't know. Maybe again, maybe that's it. And I don't know Samoa Joe and

Jay Leeth. Well, there's so many great brains that are there, Sanjay Dutt, it will be interesting with the Chris Daniels. There's so many guys. Again, we talked about the experience level w W there's not enough guys being built up to be in these positions. This is a great chance for guys to learn corporate positions and how to learn and run a wrestling company. Because Tony Khan you don't have the time to do it. Delegated out and get other wrestling people to do this. Let them learn from

their mistakes. Let it go back in a moment or Wrestling Observer Alive back on the show. Brian Albert is here Wrestling Observer Live mixumburviv. Also Wrestling Observer dot Com if you're a subscriber, or Wrestling Observer dot Com. Brian Vinny show last night, Wrestling Observer Radio all talking about Forbidden Door. I'll be back tonight with Dave talking about

the New York Magazine article with Vince McMahon. Will get the history of that on the Observer Radio show tonight and also talk about fallout from Forbidden Door and Raw, which is the return of John Cena to celebrated is twenty year anniversary with w w E, which I presume is going to lead to a John Cina match at Ummerslam, likely against theory. You've got the money in the bank, Go home show. Kevin Owens versus Elias or Ezekiel or

Edwin or whatever the last name he was. And I think the winner of that is in money in the bank or something like that. There's some sort of step and uh yeah. So that's that's rob for tonight everybody, And then tomorrow we'll have a land storm on nearly at ten thirty a m. Pacific one thirty Eastern, so an earlier start time tomorrow, and then Old Mike is going to be solo on Wednesday, giving you two days notice.

Mike solo on Wednesday, because I know you love talking about n x T two point oh here on this program. Is that my punishment for cursing? Well, Dom did ask me if I could go home Wednesday so that you could do that report, but I wouldn't call it a punishment. Dom's not even gonna be here Wednesday, tom Are you where's day going to be in? Mm hmm? Yeah? Are you going to be in on Wednesday? Yeah, he says,

I'm here. Okay, good. I'm going to make sure that the lines are open to make you have to work harder. What do you think about that? Well, no, wonder you're punished regularly. Hey 'r out a time. Everybody want to think. Mike has always called us and listeners, everybody, the studio, the FCC dom, Darren a Little, good friends of Byline, Twitch homies, Top Tears. We'll talk to you next time,

Wrestling Observer Live. You have been listening to the Wrestling Observer Daily podcast on the eight Side Network