Why Are WWE Counter Programming AEW? Clash in Paris Predictions! AEW Dynamite Review!

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You know, there it is. Absolutely. It's brevity is the key. It's one for you and I and our age demographic. I am, of course, Luke Owen and Ollie Davis is on holiday this week. So I am joined by the professor, the truth, Dan Layton. And of course, he's holding a copy of Oliver Davis's book here, Rational, a link for which is, you can pre-order your copy in the video description down below. On today's show, we're going to be talking about... Oh, I just got that pun. He irrational. Yeah, very good.

On today's show, we're going to be reviewing AEW Dynamite. We're going through our Clash in Paris predictions, but we are going to be kicking off talking about WWE's counter-programming of All Elite Wrestling. And to sort of ask the question, is it...

working? Does it benefit anyone? What is the use of doing this? And I just want to preface before we do jump into the big conversation here. Before you start writing your comment, being like, oh, I thought you wanted a wrestling war. Now you've got one and you're complaining about it. I'm not complaining. And I never have complained about counter-programming. I've only ever said...

I think this is something that WWE should do. It is something that AEW should do. This is what you do when you're in a wrestling war. You counter-program against each other. My only complaint is it makes my job so much harder. Well, also, we sort of, it is our duty to follow the discipline.

course and to talk about what people are talking about and people are always talking about this and obviously people have their opinions and people come at it from different angles um the the headline for my take couldn't care less um but It is a really interesting conversation if you want to have it about the way we view things, the way we watch TV, the way...

people consume their media these days the history of counter-programming in the wrestling industry and outside the wrestling industry it's it's this is nothing new there is nothing new under the sun

It's also not unique to wrestling either. Exactly. I have a prime example of it. Oh, please. What's your prime example? Immediately? Oh, I don't know. I was going to let you do it. So I was actually listening to The Rest is Entertainment this past week. I wonder if it's going to be the same thing. And on there, because Richard Osman...

who's one of the hosts of that show, was on Pointless. He was like, you know, the guy who came up with Pointless. He was one of the hosts on Pointless as well. And WWE... itv here in the uk had the chase on and at one point they were like pointless was always ahead in the ratings but they were also taping the same number of shows per year and then would run reruns for the rest of the year or like you know

between reruns and new programming and stuff. Until ITV made the choice, now we're just going to have a new episode every week. every single week there'll be there'll be no reruns there'll be brand new episodes of The Chase and it was at that point that it switched and The Chase became the number one show at that point and Pointless started to fall behind so

Like, wrestling promotions, counter-programming each other, is not exclusive to wrestling. This is just across media in general. But wrestling fans are weird. Well, my one was strictly... an x-factor like it was strictly it's this strictly but strictly yeah so like in the uk oh it should it shouldn't escape anyone's uh if in case you've not noticed we're british and i know there are some people who have opinions about that as well um but there's

something about like i think that feeds into how we view counter programming in wrestling anyway peanut that i'll come back to it because strictly come dancing and x factor on saturday night live entertainment they were the big two shows back in the sort of late noughties they would play off against each other and

often there would be an overlap i'm someone who was a fan of watching both but i couldn't watch both live and the live element of it i think is what's crucial yeah because when something is happening live in a sports it's what is it the sky sports thing um it's only it's only live once that's the play on yolo oh okay is that like you know because i i that's a good phrase yeah i so last night was manchester united

not to pull the curtain back on what time we're recording this last night many night had played a football game i thought it was tonight so i built my whole week around watching it tonight and then suddenly it was like i'm leaving a screening at half eight and i'm like i get a text from the group chat that we have upstairs about football there's been like

like, oh no, United. And I was like, crushing that this is how I find out that we're losing to Grimsby. But I then... go home because i could i could have just been like well i'll watch it on catch up but you need to be there present you need to be there live so watching x-factor strictly which one were you going to watch was a very real thing and in a weird way

it's the competition it's the excitement it's what drives you there were periods of time where x factor was on fire there were periods of time where strictly was far more engaging than um x factor um it is entertainment and ultimately it should drive It should benefit us. That's right. Yeah. So I think the idea is that-

The upside of counter-programming is that it should benefit you, the viewer, which is that we get... So September 20th, next month, it is WWE running Wrestlepalooza against AEW's All Out. And this one is announced quite late in the day.

It's really kind of part of this new ESPN deal that they've got with Disney. They're moving across. They're leaving Peacock. Leaving Peacock early, no less, to go across to ESPN to be part of their new streaming service. Is it called ESPN Plus or ESPN Unlimited? Oh, I have precisely not. I just call it ESPN. So they're moving across to that streaming platform over there and they're going to be doing and it's the Lesnar Cena match is going to be the headlining match of this Wrestlepalooza show.

And that is running directly against All Out. And this has been a trend across all of 2025 of AEW announcing something, then WWE announcing something that will go against it. There was actually a report that... The reason why AEW was so hesitant to announce dates of shows they had planned is because the second that they did, there would be a WWE show announced a couple of weeks after that would run against it. All In had... They were on at a certain time.

then WWE put Saturday night's main event against it. So AEW moved the show to the afternoon and WWE put an NXT show against it and announced Evolution the following day as a way to kind of hurt their ticket sales and stuff. So the idea of this is that, well, this benefits us as fans because on that weekend, all in weekend, we didn't just have one pay-per-view. We had.

Four shows we could consume. Three from WWE, one from AEW. This past weekend, we had Forbidden Door from AEW. WWE ran NXT Heat Wave against it. September 20th is the first time it's a main roster show. This is... My point on all of those things, by the way, all of those examples you've just given is, do I watch Saturday night's main event or all in?

That's not really counter-programming, is it? Well, it is because it was Goldberg's retirement match, which is what they were sort of, like, pinning the whole Saturday Night's Main Event thing around. Or, like, Forbidden Door and its heatwave. Yeah. Like, it's tricky because it's like...

okay, I'll just make my priority. It's like, oh, you're going to run Collision against WrestleMania. I'll probably watch WrestleMania. Sorry, Collision. But like, it works both ways. Like, you know. But I think the other side of that, and we'll also come back to some of those points there, is that I... think that a lot of this counter programming they've done has actually hurt the nxt brand interesting like i think that it nxt heatwave running against forbidden door just hurt heatwave

And it was a really interesting, I was listening to Guerrilla Position, and Mex on that show said that he was at Forbidden Door Live, then watched Heatwave the following day. And all he could think of when he watched Heatwave was like, this is not as good as like, I'm a WWE fan.

fan, but this is just not as good as what Forbidden Door put on the previous night. But it's never also going to be as good as what Forbidden Door put on the previous night. It's NXT Heatwave. No disrespect to NXT Heatwave. It's the developmental brand.

But I think it has actually really hurt NXT's popularity this year, because it has just been a case of, well, your shows are just going as AEW shows, and then no one's talking about those shows coming out of it, because they're usually talking about the AEW show instead. Also, I suppose if you...

It's all about perception and it's all about how you present something to us. And if you present us in NXT as a, oh, we'll just whack an NXT against you, it makes it look like something you can just pull out, maybe, of your ass and whack it on TV. I... It's a really interesting thing as well when we think about how we consume stuff. Forbidden Door being in London makes this an interesting conversation because...

As UK fans, especially us in the olden days, back in the days of yore, we would get Raw on a Friday and I would often tape it. Pay-per-view shows would be taped.

and spoilers you know weren't as prevalent as they are now social media wasn't a thing these days if I want to watch a wrestling show I have to heaven forbid weirdly even i'm like social media well but even even that i remember i remember um at the royal rumble this year my friend who doesn't watch wrestling a filthy casual you might say um

text me and it's like did you see john cena's press conference and i'm like there's a world where that's a spoiler because really only the winners of the royal rumble do press conferences and if you just spoil the royal rumble for me i will kill you yeah but like

And Lee Datson tried to do that for me once. Right. It was the 2020 Royal Rumble. The Drew winning basically got leaked out before he'd won. Right. And we were there doing live reactions for it and... uh andy on the live show was like oh have you seen the report of who's winning i was like don't want to say like don't tell me it can be it can be like a little minefield but we but that that was not in the past but you're used to we're used to taping things watching it not immediately

Something about this ecosystem that we've all built, you know, across the wrestling commentary atmosphere kind of thing, has made watching live... such a crucial element and being present and being there for the conversations the immediate podcast reaction the immediate um seeing reactions on instagram exactly the news the streamers the whole thing something about being part of the community and watching things together has brought the idea of

really being live and watching it in the moment um kind of interesting and and exciting And what that should do is make the companies want to put on the best show. We'll get into it when we talk about Dynamite in a bit, but I really liked that Dynamite this week was about an amuse-bouche for All Out.

making us one surely it should be okay we're both running a show on the same day let's make it so that we're the ones you want to see the competition that where it's like oh what have you got what have you got what have you got that's right yeah and look business is gonna be business If you're going to try and get billionaires to bow to your, you know, ideals in any way, whether that be political or I want to watch what I want to watch as a consumer.

They're not going to. They're going to be business. Ultimately, these billionaires are going to act like billionaires. And they want to make as much money as possible. They want to get our eyes on their products. But...

it could be really fun for us and it can be really fun so like with the billionaires wanting to just make more money which is what TKO wants to make more money yeah right you know and Tony Khan running AEW wants to make more money is you know why they run these businesses yeah surely wrestling is a part of of that and they want to put on good wrestling shows but at the end of the day making the most amount of money is almost like

Tantamount to everything. That's the most important aspect of this here. So the reported reason why TKO are doing this running against AEW is really not to beat them. so if for example like when they ran those shows against all in

it didn't affect All In. Their buy rate was still massive. Whether it hurt their ticket sales or not, I suppose, can be the debated point of that because it's about 30,000 tickets, which is still a good result. Like, it's a great result. If I sold 30,000 tickets or something, I'd be thrilled. Can I do the ticket sales?

thing quickly it's not it's not a big one i'm just like where so all in was in texas and um was where in georgia yes which is the other side of the country but it's yeah but it's a traveling thing right like yeah but like how many how many people if i have a choice of traveling down to texas or traveling to georgia to go watch goldberg's retirement match which of i've now got a choice of which one which ticket do i buy i can't buy tickets

for both i don't i don't think the luster of goldberg's retirement match is as strong as if it were let's say sting's retirement match where that one felt like a big deal Goldberg's retirement match, maybe it was because of how I was watching at the time. It was always like, WWE didn't present it as a big deal. It didn't feel like. So I don't know if it's like, oh, my choice between WrestleMania and...

Edge's, Adam Copeland's retirement match, I'm probably going to stick with WrestleMania. Like, I don't know that it really, and that's not meant to be disrespectful to Copeland. It's just one of those things of like, is the luster of it quite the same do you see what i'm saying we had a retirement we had the return we had his last match against sheamus i've seen that kind of thing already so i don't know whether or not saturday night's main event in georgia

massively could affect the ticket sales in Texas. No, but that is what they were aiming to do. That's the reason why they do it is to hurt the pay-per-view buyer rates and hurt the ticket sales.

And it didn't really hurt the pay-view buy rate. I don't know whether you can make the argument that it hurt the ticket sales. Honestly, I don't know. You'd have to ask the people who bought tickets for Saturday Night's main event of, did you have a choice? Which one did you pick? I know anecdotally that when it came to Forbidden Door, because like...

Forbidden Door, it wasn't just the NXT heatwave. It was announcing a WWE European tour that was running against Forbidden Door and they had a show on at the same time and they're doing Clash in Paris the week after. Anecdotally... I did speak to people who said I had to make a choice. Do I go to Clash in Paris or do I go to Forbidden Door? I cannot buy a ticket for both, even though they're not on the same night.

I can't afford a ticket for both of them. And some of them chose to go to Clash in Paris instead of going to Forbidden Door. So that's why they do it. The idea is to not beat them. It is to hurt them. It is to hurt the ticket sales. The idea of the report is that they might do TNA, because they're looking to get a TV deal, to put that on Wednesday night against Dynamite.

If Impact doesn't beat Dynamite in the ratings, that is not the end of the world. That is not what WWE wants TNA to do. They do not want TNA... to beat AEW in ratings, what they want to do is try and take a portion of the Dynamite ratings and put them into impact instead. Because if Dynamite's viewership... dips ever so slightly or it dips by 100 000 150 000 viewers when it comes to their tv rights negotiations in three years time

they won't have as good statistics to show to Warner Brothers to get a good deal off the back of it. If their ratings are hurt, and all of a sudden your chart's doing this, Warner Brothers aren't going to be like, well, we're going to give you more money now.

what they want is to either stay steady that's actually a really good win is if it can stay steady or an even better win is if it goes up because that's going to get you more money that is why TKO are doing this and I think it's actually a very shrewd business model it's not a new business model either but that is

So when people ask, why are they doing this? It's not for you as a consumer. It's to give you more wrestling. Yeah. It is to hurt AEW. It's to hurt Tony Khan and try to make him not get as good of a TV deal in three years' time.

So, yeah, that's what we're doing. And also there's the ticket sales thing, trying to hurt ticket sales, trying to hurt pay-view buy rates. Well, that's when we're a consumer as well. That's when that interesting conversation comes around is because if we think about the Monday Night War, which is our prime example, and it's a lionized...

moment in the history of wrestling where we talk about it being this you know god what a time it was to be a wrestling fan WCW versus you know 83 weeks in a row and yeah I thought about this a lot because Dynamite is obviously taking place in the 2300 and if you imagine if you imagine like

the early dynamites that were taking place in those huge arenas and now it's there think about that with Raw Raw now I watched a bit of it with my friend who's staying with me who's not a wrestling fan and Smackdown Smackdown in the arena in Dublin which was a very funny shape

which i loved i thought it looked great this wall of fans and then a couple of people on this side i kept trying to think of the logistics of it it looked amazing and that makes me then flash back to um periods of time and when or even like

in late 90s attitude era where it started to pick up and they're getting they're selling out the big arenas they can do the giant shots it's not long before that where they've got like a few hundred people in a dingy little toilet of a place kind of thing yeah and it's this whole business of like you know, everything's cyclical, everything turns around, everything comes, everything goes. The audience was larger.

is that because the audience had fewer options is that because wrestling was more in the zeitgeist than it is now i think it's more of that right so so that's the thing that everyone has to contend with so that's a an asterisk you have to put on the conversation then you've got which one do i buy tickets for

um there's a world in the in the a better economy where the answer is both but unfortunately if wwe are going to charge you like x hundred pounds for a ticket that costs the tickets i looked at the tickets for birmingham um The seat that would have cost me 90 quid, which was already pretty steep in 2018, now costs me upwards of 300, 400 quid. That's... Not just inflation. That's nonsense. It's massive. And it's also... They can because people buy it. That's it. It's a command. And...

I don't know how much Forbidden Door tickets were, but I looked at them and they were considerably cheaper. Yeah, so when we got tickets for the boys here, the team here, I should say, it was 30 quid a ticket. Right. For what were, like they were up in the upper bowl. Was that like an early? No, those were the late ones because they opened up the, these were like last minute tickets. Oh, great. So these were the upper bowl ones which they'd opened up because they'd sold all of the ones.

around and then opened up the upper bowl ones and were selling them for much cheaper yeah probably to try and pack it out. To make sure they've got seats. Well, because then they can announce at the post-show press conference, we have the highest attendance. They didn't say we beat WWE's attendance record, but what they did say is that we've got the wrestling attendance record for a show in the O2. Right.

That's why they did it. But yeah, there were 30 quid tickets. And I think that's really, I mean, if I log on as a fan, oh yeah, I might not be as au fait with AEW as I used to be, but I'm just going to log on because we've been indoors. Sounds exciting. And I have those fond memories of all in. Oh, it's 30 quid.

Bargain City. I'll get a tea. I'll get a tea. Because it's the O2. It's a great venue. No matter where you're sat, you're getting a really good view of the ring. Whereas, like... And this is not... This is true of, like... concerts as well like it's not I just it's not WWE price gouging Beyonce cost this much Lady Gaga cost this much Oasis was

nonsense the last Aussie show right was like it was like 800 quid a ticket yeah it's like monstrous and like look if that is your thing and you love that and you have the income for that perhaps you've saved and you want to spend it i i'm all for you spending your money how you want but this is the ecosystem we're in now and it's and it does force fans to make a choice it does force consumers and this is when we look at music when we look at

tv anything like taylor swift releasing her new album taylor swift is releasing her new album on the same day as my friend who's releasing her album um my friend is an independent artist she's worked incredibly hard on this album i know for a fact that um

you don't get the same level of support when you're an independent artist a smaller artist you have to work twice as hard you've put that date in the calendar a long time ago taylor swift's date is not in the calendar if it is you probably would put it on a different day those albums are going to come out on the same day

it's going to be a lot harder for my friend's album to get a look in. Yeah. Because... Tecna Swift saw that she was releasing an album and was like, I need to stop... I'm going to counter-program, Toby. I'm going to counter-program. I want to make sure she doesn't get a good TV ride steal in three years. But she's releasing this album...

And she's releasing 26 different covers of it. And she's going to release it all on your streaming platforms. And because we live in a world where the consumer has been told that... your album should be available at 9.99 it decreases the value of an album to people because you can get all the music in the world at 9.99 and your fans are just going to press play on loop and have it on silent overnight so that all of your singles are going to be in the top 10 of the charts like

We live in a world where art and value, it's not in the incentive of the artist really to make it. of a certain quality yeah because not that i'm sure it's gonna be great and will i be listening to it of course i will but like my wife's very excited like and i'm excited for my mate's album as well i want i will be able to listen to both but it forces you to put a priority on one or the other and

on the day that you used to go and buy an album do you know i mean that specialty of buying an album is now midnight stream it and and the value of it is is lower so as consumers it's even even like aw when there's so much television to watch aw buying pay-per-views or aw being on a

on ITV at a different time it makes me less inclined to watch what am I saying I've got so many different points going on at once I'm so sorry it doesn't make for good listening do you know what I'm trying to say like it's it's the ecosystem is so convoluted and so um concentrated and and trafficked is the bad word to use but um there's a lot of traffic that like

It becomes harder for us as consumers. When I was doing my joke earlier and I was trying to say it was a racing podcast, I said it was a race podcast. That was a bad... That did not come out as I intended. We do our best with grammar here. Do you understand the point I'm trying to make? Yes, I do understand the point you're trying to make. And actually, can I piggyback on that a little bit?

So my overall take on the WWE AEW counter-programming saga that we've been on that TKO have been doing for 2025. Here is my big hot take on this. Go on. And I was talking to Owen Likes Comics about this when I met up with him on Forbidden Door weekend. And I've said this on the WrestleTalk News as well, so it's not a huge new take for me. I think people have already decided. Right. I think the majority of wrestling fans...

come September 20th, have already decided which show they're watching. And they decided it before, like the second that Wrestlepalooza was announced, or even before Wrestlepalooza was announced, they'd already decided. AEW fans had decided they were going to watch All Out before Wrestlepalooza was announced WWE fans had decided they weren't going to watch the AEW pay-per-view and then when Wrestlepalooza was announced they're going to watch Wrestlepalooza

I think there is a small percentage that is on the fence. Yeah. very small percentage that are waiting to see what's the card. Do I feel icky about buying a show that's got Brock Lesnar on? And maybe that's one of the things that they've got as part of their discussions, you know, moral compass of what they're going to do.

to buy this show. Maybe it's not part of their moral compass. It might not be. But they are on the fence. Is the card for this, for Wrestlepalooza, better than the card for All Out? That is what they're currently trying to decide. But I think it is a small... small minority yeah so i totally understand why wwe are trying to do this i completely understand why tko are doing this but ultimately i don't think it actually is going to affect the aew's business model

at all, because I think the wrestling audience is basically divided. Especially the hyper-engaged ones. Exactly, the hyper-engaged ones have already decided which show they're going to watch. Yeah, you're right. They've planted their flag. I think that's really interesting. Do you know about the 3pm blackout in football? So in this country, we...

The stock is that the football matches start at 3pm. The television companies come in, Sky, BT Sport, it's TNT now. BBC. Well, not BBC because they're not Premier League, but... but they have match of the day right yeah but that's not that's not to do with the three-man breakout this is this is um so the matches come out i'll show up yeah um the matches come out

The broadcasters pick their ones. You have TNT Sport. Every now and again, you get Prime and they get to pick their whatever they want to show. Some of them then get shifted like 1250. to start at the 12.30 kickoff. Some of them get shoot to five o'clock. Some of them on the Sunday is like 2pm and 4.30. But on the Saturday, 3pm is when most of the matches take place.

And that's true of the Championship, League One, League Two, non-league, all the rest of it, at three o'clock. And they don't show matches in this country at 3pm on television. And the idea is... If we were to broadcast matches at 3pm, then people would stay home and watch them on television rather than going to live football. Interesting. I think that's bollocks, right?

because i'm someone who goes to watch or when i was at uni i was at lincoln city every week uh because that was where i was at uni it was my local team at the time uh if i could go and watch man united uh in person rather than on telly Even currently, I would be going to watch Manchester United in person. I love being, there's nothing like being at live football. You know, watching on telly is fun. Even when it's pissing it down, it's more fun to be in the stadium.

It's more fun to be in, it's the communal activity. When we came out of lockdown, I was just buying tickets to any football match I could go to, whether it was my team or not. That's why I really enjoyed watching West Ham knock Man City out of the League Cup. It was great. Even though I was surrounded by hammers. It's just, I think it's like this idea of people being so swayed by television or by...

I think ultimately, if you're a fan of something, you'll go and be a part of it. If you're a fan of AEW and WWE, put on Wrestlepalooza.

you're sticking with what you're doing. Of course you are. If you're a fan of WWE through and through, and AEW go, we have a show as well, you might go, cool guys, maybe I'll watch it in a minute. But I'm watching my wrestling right now. I'm watching my entrances right now. And then... you guys in the middle they'll they'll make their own mind they'll make the decision like when i'm sitting down to decide what i want to watch on telly if i've got the choice between man united live and watching

I don't know, Fulham and Crystal Palace on telly, I'm going to Man United Live if I can. If I've got the choice between Man United Live and Liverpool and Arsenal, clash at the top of the table, I'm watching Man United. We pick what we want to watch.

And look, ultimately, it's all about trying to create a better... uh experience for your fan if you're going to get them to want to watch for those ones in the middle and if this nonsense that these billionaires are getting up to ultimately ends up in me watching better tv i'll take it well that's good i really want out of this is that it does make

WWE put on some killer shows and by extension it makes AEW put on killer shows because the conversation has always been about WWE from 2001 through to 2019 was

It became a bad show because there was no competition. WWE had no one to compete against. So they basically... stopped trying yeah because you could just rest assured it didn't matter what they put on it really did not matter what WWE put on between 2001 and 2019 people were going to sign up for the network they were going to buy the pay-per-views pre-network they were going to tune in

for Raw they were going to tune in for Smackdown they'd watch ECW they'd watch the game show version of NXT it didn't really matter what they did oh For a while, though, that did start to then see a downward trend because when they really stopped trying, they were putting on really bad shows. You get put off, I'm going to stop watching. And then, come 2019, when they did get some stiff competition from AEW, that is when you saw this real, like, bit of a kick in the keister. And now...

and even that took a while big dog well it took you know triple h actually taking the control of the book to be like look we are this is a bad show we need to put on a much better product because we need to bring back fan engagement wwe gorilla position i think is a really interesting uh Case Study and all this. Great podcast that I recommend everyone go listen to. I think it's a tremendous, tremendous show. But they were talking about Forbidden Door and they are a WWE podcast.

they are such a wwe podcast their twitter handle is wwgp for starters yeah like they are sort of like not i've been sort of endorsed by wwe the wwe idea of podcast not so much like that but they have a very good relationship with wwe they cover wwe shows they don't really cover AEW but AEW will approach them to offer them interviews

With Will Ospreay. They had Bryan Danielson on the show to promote All In last year because from AEW's perspective, they're trying to get that WWE audience to go and watch AEW. Pay attention. Do you know who didn't get offered interviews with Bryan Danielson and Will Ospreay? These guys right here. Because for AEW, it's like, well, that's...

preaching to the choir yeah your audience has already decided they're going to buy a ticket forbidden door we don't need to give you any aew interviews because it's a pointless endeavor we're actually better off sending brian danielson to kerrang magazine and he can do an interview with them there instead to try and create some some new

balls on it. Which, by the way, I totally get. I was going to say, I bet that's your dream scenario. What, to be Brian Danielson? On Kerrang! magazine. To be interviewed by Kerrang! magazine. Yes, it would be. Shout out to Luke Morton. Luke Morton, right. But it's... so I totally get that if anyone says like we had MJF last year spoilers he arranged that that was not through AEW I asked AEW this year are you going to do a media day is there any chances of interviews

heard nothing back from them. We get diddly dick. We also get dilly dick from WWE, but that's actually because they don't like us. But so that is the WWE stance that they are on. And James D'Lo, the host, was asking about Forbidden Door. And Skillet and Mex, who had been watching the show, said, yeah, it's great. And he said...

is AEW on fire again? They said, yeah, it's a really good show at the moment. And James's response was, I really do feel like I want to watch it, but I also don't have the time. I don't have the time, Kimberly. I don't have the time. I've got to watch this.

you know, already, what, two and a half hours for Raw, two hours for SmackDown, and two hours for NXT. If you are a WWE, and then that's not even including Evolve, that's not including main event. If you want to watch everything, if you want to consume everything. there's not a lot of time in the day and TNA as well now that they're starting to do something that AAA is going to be doing some shows

you've not got enough time to also watch AEW on top of that. That again is where I come back to you are planting your flag. Yeah. Deciding where you're going to be. If I, as the sort of fan that I am, because I like both WWE and AEW.

I would make a choice on the day of which one I'm going to watch live. And actually, this wasn't my job. I wouldn't watch either of them live. I'd have waited the next day. And I probably would have watched, depending on what the card was, I'd have watched one of them and then caught the... other one up in the week that's really pertinent as my job i now have to watch both of those shows and that's the only real gripe i've got against all of this is on the work for you

On September 21st. Well, okay. I'm really going to break some walls down here. It's my kid's birthday weekend. And I was not going to be working that weekend. And it was fine because it was just one show. Now that it's both shows. I have to work that weekend. So I had to have a conversation with my wife to be like, hey, you know all those plans we had for my kid's birthday weekend? I now can't be there for them because Brock Lesnar's wrestling John Cena at Wrestlepalooza and I've now...

got to be there to do all the coverage for that yeah uh so we're not happy no not a happy numerous reasons not a happy chappy in my house i can tell you that much that's why i'm annoyed at kind of programming it's interesting you didn't think about that did you TKO when you announced WrestleBalooza it's Tony Khan looking at his calendar and he sees Luke Owen's kid's birthday and he's like rub that out replace it with a show I um I uh

Again, this is the consumer thing, and we live in a world where we can watch things on demand at our own time if we want to. Sometimes it's fun to watch them live if you can avoid it. With football, I do find it really interesting when I go home and watch it, and I'm like, do I want to...

do i want to just find out the score do i want to waste 90 minutes watching a ball in neutral do you know what i mean like there's a little part of me that's like who's to say uh but then there's the excitement of what might be a goal i still don't know in my world i didn't know the results um but like we

i did this job with you for two years and watched raw great two years and i had a wonderful time and i and i watched raw and i loved it every week engaging even when it was dreadful the judgment day debacle of 2023 Sorry, it's still here. I know. It's just that I do have a moment every now and again when I watch Raw and I'm just like, that's this Judgment Day's more lineups than The Sugar Babes. It's so fascinating. But like, I...

Then obviously go off and do this. I don't know if I mentioned it. I went to Manview, did a master's degree. But I go off and do this drama school training, which is so intense. And suddenly my time is like nine in the morning till 7 p.m. doing pirouettes. And I'm like, I don't have... energy to watch two and a half hours of raw three hours of smackdown two hours of nxt dynamite collision pay-per-views

I don't have any time for any of that. I want to watch Taskmaster and reruns of Taskmaster because that's all my brain can handle. So I would find myself watching raw highlights if I was like, ooh, and this is, if I watched... If I saw there was going to be a match like an EO versus Rhea in January, I'm watching that episode of Raw. But more often than not, I'm watching highlights. NXT...

Sorry, mate. Half the time, I don't know what's going on. Smackdown's too long, but at least it's on a Saturday, so I can sort of skim through that one. aw is not available to i had to get rid of half my streaming platform so i couldn't have fight tv anymore triller whatever it was called these days so i'd sort of wait for it on itv4 but by then it's been four days yeah and i'm not interested

Do you know what I mean? Because time is of the essence and it's interesting as a consumer. It's, we have a lot. So like, if your entire being is wrestling and you love it more than anything in the world, love that for you. some of us don't have the time i don't have the time to watch all of it and i think especially on on shows like this there is an expectation to it's easier in some ways because it's the job you have you are required to be

far more au fait and thus you have those more nuanced opinions so this week's podcast watching dynamite was a really interesting experience for me knowing that we were going to talk about this as well because coming at things from a casual perspective it really gives you a new perspective on what makes for an engaging show. And Dan, this is the professional that you are because that lines us up for a very beautiful segue into the next segment.

So make sure you like and subscribe because it's because of people like you that we get to do all the things that we love to do. Luke, wake up! News. News. John Cena news. I'm doing the news. Snap out of it, Luke. Snap out of it. What's happened to you? I just feel... Fatigued. I have no energy. I'm a collection of seven days. A collection of seven days. Week.

Oh, God, that's terrible. Sullivan, you've got to stop writing these bad jokes. Yeah, I mean, we've done some real clangers in these newsrooms, but I think, Sullivan, that is the worst one you've... No, no, Luke, Luke, wake up, we've got to criticise Sullivan's joke writing more. I just can't. I don't have the energy. Have you tried Huel? Huel? Yes. Hugh!

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nutritious option for your meals, then click the link in the description now, and if you use our code WrestleTalk you'll get 15% off your order with a minimum order value of $75. I feel great. This is so good. It actually makes me enjoy Sullivan's jokes. All right. Okay. Don't get too hasty. Nothing can do that. Okay.

Because the next segment is we're going to review AEW Dynamite for this week. He's been a broadcaster for several years. He's got the skills for this. But yeah, so I... really really interesting way that we're going to be able to approach the show this week and I am fascinated by this is you said to me before you started I was like I haven't really watched a lot of Dynamite which is understandable because you have been a very busy boy yeah

So you are coming at this show, which has just come off the back of what I thought was a really, really good pay-per-view in Forbidden Door. You weren't at Forbidden Door either. I don't know how much you've seen of it. So that means you are coming to this with...

really very fresh eyes. Yes. You're almost a filthy casual. I'm a disgusting, filthy casual. So the thing is, I... we were talking about planting flags and things like that i'm a wwe fan first and foremost i didn't really watch wcw much back in when i was a kid my introduction was wwf i then stuck through with wwe even in the dark times just because it was nice to have something to do um And then AEW comes along and I sort of was really happy to see it, really...

like glad to see and when it comes down to like aw versus nxt those first couple of weeks was i sat there in my bed with my popcorn with my two like cameras like two screens open absolutely i was um and then joining up with you guys i become far more into age far more like au fait with what's going on and then just time demands of you that you go away so i went i keep up with all of wrestling in a very distant way yeah i'll read results i'll see I've tried to change it so I don't see takes. Yes.

then i see what happens i like to watch the highlights before i see people's takes because there was an era of time where i would just get not just takes but kind of like the most bad faith i think that's fair yeah i'd take like when i was

I think I've talked about this on the show a lot before. People know my backstory of watching wrestling. I actually didn't watch Raw at all on a week-to-week basis or Smackdown on a week-to-week basis because I've never had Sky. Right. So I never actually had access to be able to watch it. And this was also in a...

period of time this is like pre-WWE being a big part of YouTube where they were putting up highlights of things if anything WWE were afraid to put stuff up on there and if people did stuff on there they would take it down until WWE then really started to embrace it so there was a period of time where my only consumption of what happened on Raw and Smackdown was Wrestling Observer Radio right so actually it was my assumption of it was the takes uh but now i think if i was not watching i

or not doing this as my job, that is what I would be doing. I would watch the highlights on YouTube. Then I would seek out some podcasts. I would listen to Wrestling Observer Radio, Guerrilla Position, Stephen Larson, Fightful, Cultaholic. And I would just sort of like find it, you know, pick out my podcast.

of choice or actually probably what i tend to do is listen to five or six right because that's what i still do now i should watch the shows now yeah it's it's i think it's a really interesting way of consuming it and staying engaged you just don't want that it's it's like a little bit like i do i want to read the review before i see the film

do you know what i mean yeah because that will that then pepper how i feel about interesting yeah i think yeah because i tend to read reviews like i'll see the you know star ratings like i'll listen to john campion they'll be like here is what the the star ratings is or the the rotten tomato score this verified score is but i wouldn't actually go out and

seek out reviews until i've seen the film myself yeah because if i could it's also especially what with what we do it's nice to talk about the thing that we're all in on rather than give you also like we have an opinion but

It's not to say this is fact or this is how it went along. Which I think people don't... quite understand sometimes and like it's everyone has an opinion on things and just because my opinion is different to yours does not mean that I am saying that my opinion is exactly and the way I come to it's important to know I think the way I come to

any review of anything is i want you to be five stars i give you five stars and over the course of the movie the wrestling show the tv show the stage show i'll knock a star off if you get on my which is why Jackass Forever is a five star movie because it didn't do anything wrong it did exactly what it promised me it would yeah well speaking of Jackass I was going to say all of this to say

over headline i thought this was a really really good show me too yeah i thought this was a great show actually this week i thought it was a really good and um speaking of jackass we were from the ecw arena arena 2300 or 2300 arena of like official title but wrestling fans know as the ECW arena here is my big pitch to wrestling companies stop running the ECW arena oh interesting I really liked it it's too nice now ah so

Because camera quality is really good now, it just looks like a warehouse. When ECW ran that thing, it looked... dirty and grimy and it looked like the home of extreme championship wrestling when nxt runs it when aew it's too pristine it's too nice it's too clean a part of that is to do with everything is screens now yeah i know well that's what it means so like i'd rather you don't run this building because it doesn't look like the ecw arena and it's never gonna look like the ecw arena because

Everything's too pristine and clean these days. It just looks like a small building. It does look like a small building. I think if you dress it in a certain way... It's more expensive to dress it that way. And I haven't read too much about the unions that are having an issue at 2300 at the moment, but it sounds to me like if they can cut costs, they will. Yeah. As far as I'm aware on that as well, you know, where everyone's statements on there is that it's more of a union.

versus the venue thing but it's the union also including AEW within this but AEW put out a statement they said to post wrestling it's literally nothing to do with us like this is a war between them and this person over here and it's just useful for the unions to be able to use the big brand like that makes sense that's what mike johnson and pw was silent said he goes this is really the union i using

a global show being shown at this building to further their cause and actually try and put pressure on the 2300 arena to do because even though they're not it's not a union building they're just trying to get them to try and meet union rights yeah but we won't get into all of that no but but it's but like but yeah where it feels churlish to not mention that that's been in the news absolutely but also

I kind of like, and especially maybe because there was a little false color anywhere moment at the end. I would have enjoyed far more of that take place backstage because there was something about that. It's a very specific hue.

of backstage in an american arena at nighttime it's very orange yes and i love it and i don't see enough of it in wrestling these days because they really like the backstage at raw very well and backstage at dynamite they don't often they're just in front of their screen doing their interviews most of it takes place in in the arena i love seeing

people wrestle in arenas at night time. I think it's cool. I was listening to an old Attitude Era podcast recently, and they were talking about that. Like, the idea of just, back in the Attitude Era, there were just always backstage brawls, and just, you would, every week would have a hardcore match, every paper would have a hardcore match.

Do you know what they do? Just spill out. They would wrestle at the start a little bit in the ring and then they would just brawl to the back and then we just do garbage stuff into the back and more often than not.

beautifully spilled into the streets yeah one of my favorite aw memories is the adam cole jericho that went out into the back and it's like i didn't i can interfere with you i was running strong because adam cole wasn't allowed in the arena so they spilled to the outside and that's where he could get involved love that still loved that like

Extreme Rules Match is... I mean, are we doing the show in order? Because now I'm at the main event and I feel like... We will go through this in order. We'll do this in order, yeah. We opened with a recap of the Deathriders taking out Will Ospreay at Forbidden Door and FTR opened the show. with some technical issues, of course. So they could berate the referee, Paul Turner, because at Forbidden Door, Dax and Cash, you know, that's their claim. Bandido was not the legal man.

Dak should not have been pinned in all this, or Cash, whichever one it was. They asked Paul Turner to reverse the decision. He said no. Stoke called him a moron and a nincompoop. And then Paul Turner brilliantly then starts firing back. And Adam Copeland... With a full referee finger. Adam Copeland comes out to brawl with FTR. And he looks behind his shoulder to sort of, you know, get Christian to come out as well. But...

Christian's an arsehole, so he's not going to join him. But it turns out it was all a ruse because Christian actually had snuck into the ring to attack Stokely. They all had a brawl. And in the end, C&C Music Factory challenged FTR to a match at All Out. Yeah. I really like this. It was a great segment. It was a great show. It was nice and tight. Did its business. Didn't outstay its welcome, other than a little technical snafu at the beginning, which...

In a weird way, I kind of liked because it allowed me, again, as a casual to go, this guy is someone I don't like. FTR are baddies at the moment, the kind of thing, like to really refresh where you're at. Anything that you can use to do an inference to an audience member. I think it's effective. I liked it a lot. How are you feeling as a casual coming into Dynamite about seeing Edge and Christian reunited and it feels so good? I think they look, I don't like, I don't like Adam Copeland's mullet.

I haven't liked it for a long time. I'm sorry. I don't think mullets are good. Other than that, no, they aren't. Stop trying to make fetch happen. It's just so nostalgic and fond, and that's the point of them being there, isn't it? At some point, they had to... one last run or whatever what i really like about this is that and i think looking at it and again oh yeah it's a brand new casual you log in oh that's edging christian great

And looking at it now, because I've seen where we were sort of fancy booking this before Forbidden Door, I can now see actually there's a much bigger storyline picture that I probably should have seen and I didn't. We all thought that FTR were going to win the tag titles of Forbidden Door and then you were going to do Edge and Christian.

versus FTR for the tag titles. But really, storyline-wise, for Edge and Christian's reunion, it's not about being a team. It is a union of necessity because Christian had a problem with the patriarchy.

Copeland's got an issue with FTR, so they have come together to deal with their issues. This isn't really about winning the tag team titles, but maybe if they do start to really get along and really start to vibe, maybe it... does become about the tag team titles but for now winning the tag titles is not on their mind it's been

over 23, four years since that? Yeah, I think 2000 was probably 2001 maybe was the last time. 2001 when Edge won the King of the Ring and that's when the wheels started falling off. But I'm trying to work out whether they'd, I can't remember if they'd won the tag styles in 01 or if like the last time they were champions was in 2000.

definitely do because they won tlc2 um wrestlemania of course what a moron yeah quite famous quite a big one quite a big one yeah but like that like so you know and then they've gone off and had that and it was it's kind of nice to see that it's like it's clearly not quite uh they're not they've not chatted about it beforehand they've not like figured it out so they're not a team exactly but they are a team and and then as a fan it's going to be nice to watch whether or not they can go like yeah

Should we... Maybe. Should we commit? Maybe. Yeah, we can stick around. Also, I love that Christian is still... He's not changed anything about his character. Yes. Which was a real concern that everyone was like, you can't just change this Christian character. You can't 180 it and make it feel believable. So they haven't.

like when Edge told him to go find himself he came back and said I don't need to find myself I'm already the perfect version of myself this is who I am and Copeland was like yeah i guess like you're an arsehole it's just that you're an arsehole that i need right now so and and christian then like get to the microphone because it's like hey i hear you've got a dead dad oh it's like hey cash i

you've got it oh yeah and Copeland grabs my eyes like don't do this anymore they like us but the crowd cheering on it and Edge just goes I guess you guys are sickos and he hands the mic back to Christian so he can do the And they're dead and they're bitches. And the crowd can pop for it. All of a sudden it's become a baby face act. What I love about it as well is that it's...

It's not that like Christian is the secondary tag team member because he's done such good work over the past couple of years, even longer, you know, when it is TNA run. And that's part of the reason that that WWE return in 2010 felt such a sad.

flop was because it was like oh you've done such good work all over to become this star in your own right and now you're not being treated quite on that same level it would be it would be a shame for this to turn into the no no join go back and so that it's the edge and christian show rather than it's like two people yeah

You know, I like that. Darby made art with blood from his ear from when Jon Moxley stabbed him with scissors at a forbidden door, and he challenged him to a match at All Out. Jon Moxley... It was a Furno match, assumedly. They burned things on fire. Jon Moxley then challenged... Daniel Garcia. I thought this was awesome. Yeah, it was great. This was a great, great match.

some tributes to Nigel McGuinness within there as well Garcia blocked the paradigm shift to get a single leg Boston Crab because he was targeting the knee DDT on the ring steps by Mock but Garcia just gets back in at nine which looked like it hurt him a lot more yeah yeah

He's got another little scrape on his back there, I assume. Bump onto steel steps. Garcia just gets back in at nine. Then he manages to get in the dragon tamer. Brilliantly so for a great near fall. Then a pile driver for another near fall. And then Mox gets a surprise roll up to get the win. I thought it was an awesome match. It was.

It was really effective as like, you know, showing off that Daniel Garcia is not something to be taken lightly, that like... moxley is brutal and and you know he'll resort to whatever like again with the heel face dynamics it just shows you exactly where you are really really enjoyed it i was more intrigued by what happened afterwards Well, just on the Daniel Garcia thing is that I, when they announced this match, I was like, eh, all right.

like not that ass i've not really been to daniel garcia for a while now like i think that the tnt title run just wasn't the magic that i was hoping it was because he was at such a precipice point and that's when i was heading off he was at such a moment yeah

did it not land not really and so that's a shame you know he decided to stay with AEW rather than go to WWE and you know he won the TNT championship but I feel like maybe it was it was slightly too late in there and then it's like he's also been and I hate to

kind of put these labels a collision guy and that's like if you're on collision you just sort of like felt feels a bit secondary because it's it's yeah i mean it's to a you know not quite to that degree but like you know he's not headbanger mosh but he is sort of like within that like it a collision thing. It's not a scene as it's the B show to the A show of Dynamite.

But here, I was actually super into Daniel Garcia. And then afterwards, because Mox, almost in a Blackpool Combat Club style way, was just like, he's earned his stripes. Like, I'd quite like to see him in our group, actually. And then there's really you being like, oh, no, but dad, what about me? Like, I don't know.

really want that kid to be in our in our little club here and mox just like no you get in the ring and wheelie you then cuts the promo to you know sell darby allen hey you're not you're not getting your match at all now but he's even he's distracted by this idea of mox maybe trying to get and Daniel Garcia is frustrated and he's annoyed maybe this is what is going to be the impetus to him turning on Nigel McGuinness turning on daddy magic

Maybe, yeah, Daniel Garcia's heading off to the Death Riders. I think something Daniel Garcia needs more than anything for me to really take into the next level is a bit of character and where I would be a bit... reticent of him joining up with death riders is is he just going to become another person who gets in the ring and stares around a bit do you know what i mean which is sort of claudio already had a vibe mox has his own vibe yuta

And Marina, for me, just sort of stand there a bit. And I think it would be a shame for Danny Garcia to sort of not be able to find... whatever it is that takes him from great worker blank personality is not fair, but like, you know, he does this little dance.

He's not even the only person who does a bad dance on this show. And then I would want him to find something else that really takes him to that next level because I think he's got the goods. I think he's got, you know, he's... good looking guy wrestles really well and i would worry that him going into um the death riders um i was gonna because you said come back up the death riders would would maybe is that going to allow him to to

find that or is that going to hinder him from finding that and instead just make him a mercenary kind of thing but I really liked there was something that made me sit forward and go oh what's that going to be a little tease for something in the future I liked that I mean Dave Bradshaw's called me. Of course he is. In fact, I'm just going to answer and let him know I'm recording a podcast. Dave, I'm just recording a podcast at the moment.

No, I'm literally in the middle of recording. Say hi from me. Oh, you've got two minutes. It's like, no, I'm recording, mate. For me, to agree with what you just said then, I actually don't want to see... Daniel Garcia, you go join the Death Riders because that for me is just him just joining another group.

Right. And what I actually think is a much better outcome of this is that he turns on McGinnis, turns on Daddy Magic, but also doesn't go with the death threats and just becomes his own guy. And just, yeah, goes his own way. That is what I want to see from Daniel Garcia.

after the break will you came back out to the ring uh to be get more of that because he's from philly so he's trying to get some local heat and he said i used to be ring crew for this building don't tell the unions um And then he actually pointed out that Deathriders have taken out a lot of his mentors in Will Ospreay, in Chuck, and in Danielson, but then the lights go out.

Hook makes his return. He's got brand new music because AEW had a bit of a falling out with Action Bronson. Apparently that's all been smoothed over now, but he's getting a new theme. And I thought it was quite nice for Hook to make his return in the building that his father was a huge part of. Yeah. Locks in the town. house mission the red rum so that's quite nice yeah it was it was cool i looked comfy as hell yeah

He had a lovely outfit on. That's my pajamas, basically. MJ have cut a promo backstage saying that he should have won at Forbidden Door and he was screwed. The new ruling of the casino gauntlet contract is you have to give at least one week's notice for promotional purposes. And he says, that he will sign the contract one day but when he does it won't just be for a match it will also be for hangman's soul yeah the two there's two sides of this to me one of it is i really like that ruling

That's good to set it apart from cache-ins. I think cache-ins, when they first started happening literally 20 years ago, it was very interesting and new and exciting. Nowadays, I think a cache-in sometimes when it's not deployed correctly. can just feel a bit cheap, a bit devaluing. And so I like that it's going its own way. However...

when you've agreed to a match with certain stipulations and then that is undercut, then that's bad on the business up top. So there's a little part of me that's like, if I were MGF, I'd be really cross at that, like in the storyline that I signed up for a match where I was given a certain stipulation and a certain rule. and now you're changing it. I don't think you're allowed to do that contractually. I'm going to extort some money from you. I feel like that's...

Maybe a little fun character thing they can do. Yeah, because it was MJF that made the changes to a lot of the rules and it didn't work out in his favor. So he's a little bit peed about that. But also he wants to get his hands on Mark Briscoe first. This is a way to kind of like move MJF away from the title picture, finish up this Mark Briscoe stuff, then he can return to that.

later down the line there was a lot of really good bits and pieces of that which we'll come on to in a bit Megan Bain and plenty before took on Harley Cameron and Chris Statlander a crowd was super into like all four of these women and they had a really really fun match Chris powered up Ford from doing a crossbody and locked in her new submission to get the win. Which looked...

Yikesy. Like, ouch. Yeah, because you've got those massive legs. Yeah. It's really trapping you in there. And then Stat and Megan brawled some more and Willow came out for the very tense save. Yeah, I thought it was a really good match. I really liked this one. I think that, yeah, the crowd being into it certainly helped. I feel like that gave them a little lift. The little sort of like...

backdrop forward slam double team that Cameron and Stat did was nice. Yeah. And Mercedes-Benz Mene came out for a promo and they talked about her great weekend although if I can't just put Renee got the matches in the wrong order actually because she said you know you started out the weekend winning your six man tag then won a another title. Actually, she won the title first on the Friday. She won the six-woman tag on the Saturday. I was only there for the Saturday.

And she said that she, you know, I have got nine belts, but Ultimo Dragon had 10. So I'm going to beat Ultimo Dragon's record. Still think it's a bit cheap that they're using the Owen Hart title in there. It is. That's not a belt. That is not a belt that you're defending. No. Also, Nina Samuels already earned the 10 belts gimmick. Where's her respect? This is what I'm talking about. Yes, I agree with that. I also don't like the dance. Well, the Zio dance. No? I think it's cringe.

It's not a dance, is it? No. Crowd are into it. Look, everyone else can be, like, people can be into whatever they're into. This gives me the ick. I don't know what to tell you. Look, you know. So come at me with a few jetes and then we'll talk Mercedes. She also said that she didn't tap out to Alex Winter in that tag match last week. She was actually just swatting away a fly. It was just a happenstance that she was in a submission.

I'm irritated that she's not looking at the world title and that in a good way like I love the fact that again being presented with this person look at all of these belts I've got

I'm the CEO. That tells me you're really important. It tells me you're really good. Batting away suggestions of Alex Winder sets up a little something so that I know, okay, that's what your shtick is. In a minute, I'm going to see someone with another belt. And if you want to get 10 belts, why are you not going for that one? Mm-hmm.

maybe it's because you're a bit of a coward like that's it yeah creates a character stuff i liked i thought that was quite effective that's really interesting actually from a character because like for me it's like well i know why she's not going for that balance because she lost to tony storm right i don't think she wants to lose again yeah so there you go

Okay, so I'm glad that does come across within the character. That does work then. Mark Briscoe cut a promo. He's not there this week. And it's because he's got a tiny baby, which I believe, I think is his ninth child. Yeah, that's... Too many. I've got one and that's a lot. That's plenty. Take this and go.

And the baby off. Because a bro on MJF says that MJF keeps telling him he can't win the big one. So he's laid out a chance to Carl Fletcher for the TNT Championship for next week in the ECW arena. Nice. Then we had your weekly party match as Hedgesera, Josh Alexander and Kanosuke Takeshita and Kazuchika Okada took on Jetspeed and Brodido. Bloody hell, the Don Callis family is just... I mean, Don Callis later on said, I've got half the roster under contract. And it feels...

like that. But also, when these four lads came out, I was like, that's a good looking group right there. Even if sometimes Josh Alexander stands in a way that makes him look a bit mad. Like... Kind of arms forward. It's very funny. It's a decent variety. Do you know what this was giving me? This was giving me corporation. It's a little bit of the corporation. It's the boss man and Ken Shamrock. Do you know what I mean? Where it's like, sure, all of these people work together. Why not?

And I also like when they came out later on in the segment with with hangman I was just looking at it like huh yeah what a band there are licorice all sorts they really are sort of group and i really really like them um commentaries even say it's like he's got all of batman's rogue gallery like especially with the head of chair it looks like it looks like what I imagine people think wrestlers look like.

do you know what i mean yeah i love that yeah i saw him live a couple of times i mean last year as well he's awesome uh cal is also very familiar with this building he was part of ecw back in the day um but really this match while it was very fun it was your weekly party match um it was

all around the tension between Okada and Takeshita because we are building towards the current G1 winner and the greatest G1 competitor of all time likely over that unified title looks like we're finally paying off on that guys we've been waiting on this for about a year at this point we're finally looking like we're moving in that direction this is the striking while the iron's hot thing like it's hard to do

For anybody. And Josh Alexander got the win for his team. So good on you, Josh. You don't often get to get the win on TV. The Don Carlos family don't often win on TV either. So this is delightful for them. Hangman Page, they came out for a promo to very earnestly thank.

Will Ospreay for all the work that he's done for the company. And we're all going to miss you. And I hope that when you do come back, you and I can face off for this world title. Same. Me too, actually. Yeah. He said, do you know what, Max? You also failed. Like, needling in. Callous comes out. And he says that...

you won your first world title from one of my guys. But that's because my guy was a weak link. And the next time it's not going to happen. Do you know why? Because I've got half the roster under contract, which means that one of my guys will be coming for your title next. And all of a

and a bunch of his guys come out. It's the Don Callis B team. So it's Rocky Romero. Yeah, I'm like looking at these people and I'm like, none of you are going to win this belt off this man. Exactly. It's Rocky, it's Lance Archer. Yeah. Unfortunately, it's Hedges Aero. And then they all brawl with him. Jet Speed then run down. But who's the thing beats him?

jet speed holiday is all i could think the entire time anybody said that it's like so i've not been part of this meme or i've seen anyone do the meme but i Because Cresta from Fightful has done a few jokes about it. I know exactly what it is because I've seen the Jet 2 holidays. I find it mad. It's penetrated the US. Oh, it's because it's got it. It trended on TikTok. Well, I assumed that.

became a big thing because it's such a nonsense sound. What? Darling, hold my hand. Nothing beats a Jet 2 holiday. The whole thing. The thing is, you know, I'm a... Also, like, Hun culture will find a way. I'm a family man. My wife and I were talking about this just last night.

because people were like, we're watching Masterchef, and someone had just come from San Sebastian or something. He was like, when can we come back from San Sebastian? I was like, mate, we've got a child. We're going to Menorca. We're going to Costa del Sol, and I cannot wait to go on a package holiday where we're probably going to have a hammock.

in chips a lot. Yes. It's going to be an all-inclusive thing. Thank you. I'm going to get not pints of beer, but tall glasses of beer. Tall plastic glasses of beer. Because they will be included within the package that we have got. And oh, that plastic glass will be... cold. So that will be the real that's what my money's going towards. And you know what? Nothing does beat a Jet 2 holiday.

I can't wait. It's going to be awesome. Unfortunately, people do beat Jet Speed by the looks of things. Yeah, absolutely. Not first. We're not doing that next year because we've already spent a lot of money this year. So we're going to Wales. Lovely. To a caravan park. Oh, dreamy.

dead excited um anyway so uh so the b team come out and who should make the save uh for jet speed and hangman page but kenny by god omega the guy that callous was referring to in there and hangman and omega one of the greatest tag teams in aew history reunited and it feels so good they both looked at each other realized where archer was standing and they hit their buckshot v trigger combo and i was like i was giddy and i was jumping up and down in my seat i was so excited

and they announce later on in the show for next week. It will be Jet Speed, Hangman Page and Kenny Omega versus the Don Callis family and the Young Bucks, which means we're getting Page and Omega versus the Bucks on TV next week. Very, very excited. And this is partly, this is sort of where I arrived at the moment of like, oh yeah, this is exactly how you begin the build to your next big show in such a way.

that excites people and gets them to want to watch next week and the week after and the week after because you've set you've reminded me of a good thing from back in the day you've created a little moment there's a bit of tension in the air there's a bit of like this could be a match

this could be a unit that that was a fun little moment. They did. You've given me clear heel face dynamics. You've given me, you know, everything I need to know. And then you've said, and next week, if you come and watch our show, you'll see this. Yeah. And you've made me go, Oh, well make a point of.

Seeing that match, that sounds nice. And if I was a betting man, I imagine it will be Konosuke Takeshita that will be the guy to step up from the Don Callis family, which means you can do Paige and Takeshita at All Out. Yeah. Whether or not it's Okada is the reason he doesn't win that or Takeshita doesn't win, you can then spin that off into the Okada-Takeshita feud for the Unified Championship while you can do Kenny versus Hangman for the title at full gear, which is the show.

in which Hangman beat Kenny for the world title. Are we doing this here again? Yes, we are doing the C2. In fact, we're actually going to be getting some of the C2 here in the UK because they're doing Collision in Cardiff and Dynamite in Manchester. And those will be C2 shows. Lovely. Those are two great cities. Maybe I'll go to them both.

Well, Manchester in particular is lovely. The best city in the world. It's not Liverpool. Anyway, Tony then cut a promo on behalf of Marina Shafir because it's also death before dishonor this weekend. Yes, it is.

women's championship very fun promos it sounds to me like she's going to throw miniature cow off the top of the building well you know if it's athena i wouldn't doubt it there we go uh she said that she's going to make she will do things to miniature cow that make the blue meanie quiver and the sandman

S's pants. Great stuff. Ricochet and the Gorillaz are... That's the second time I've done that. The Gorillaz of Destiny. The Gorillaz of Destiny. It's because I've written down G-O-A. Yeah. And if I see G-O, it means it's to G-O-D. Yeah. Well, especially a pair of Samoans. Like...

anyway it's ricochet and the gates of agony taking on the ops for the trios championships as a crowd were on fire for this probably because samoa joe was there and he's awesome mvp hit ricochet in the back with his cane to uh lead to the ops getting the win here um and the hurts

I think it came out for a brawl to follow on from the angle they did at Forbidden Door. It was a lovely, nicely balanced match. It was. I think it could have done with a little video package of Forbidden Door to show you why. That's so interesting because I thought the exact same thing. I was like...

before Raw they started to put on recaps of last week's Raw and I was like oh I've missed these I think recaps are quite nice in wrestling a little bit of a this is what previously on would have been really beneficial every comic is someone's first comic book every wrestling show is someone's first wrestling show And then the main event in a False Cannon Anywhere match was Claudio Castagnoli taking on Darby Allin. And this match was off the bat. Yeah. Like, really.

Because Darby was like on top of a production shop, leapt down onto Claudio as he was making his entrance. And then Claudio put Darby Allen into a shopping trolley here in the, as we would call him in the UK. And like it's jackass in 1999, he bam-mar-jared him right out of it. And then he did a body slam.

a body slam to him through a telly yeah it was great great like it was the immediate kickoff of again the like the amber the lighting that like the the energy the frenetic sort of like also a lot of extreme rules matches these days just sort of feature kendo sticks and chairs and they happen in the ring i like that it was happening somewhere else i like that it was a falls count anywhere i wish a few more falls had been attempted anywhere um but

I liked it. He grabbed him and he did the giant swing into the barricade. He was walking down the ramps or walking him back to the ring while giant swinging him. It was awesome. Darby then climbed up one of the massive posts in the ECW arena and did a coffin drop off of that. The big spot of this. though was pretty rad which is where christ uh claudio got the commentary team to move and then like spike dudley in 1997 he absolutely like just tossed him from the ring to the floor

And he went and he bounced off the table. And then he was like, no, you're going through this thing. He got IM tables twice in this. He did. It was really, really great, though. I just thoroughly enjoyed this match. In the end, Darby got the win. He had two coffin drops because...

Because Claudio, no matter whatever he threw at him, he could not put him away. Which is going to be very fun for the Death Riders taking on Darby Allin. Because a lot of their thing is torturing people. And trying to beat people as much as possible. And this is a guy that apparently just feels no pain. And how are the Death Riders going to be able to overcome that in a match? I don't want to see that.

Because this match is exactly what I want from a Darby Allin match where it's like, oh, big risks and showcases and things like that. But I don't have to see bits of your body hanging off. Like the business of Forbidden Door was... Not my bag. No, baby. So Cal Val could not watch the rest of the match. For some people, it's for them. Not for me. And I think, yeah. And I also just...

Derby, mate. Look after yourself. But then again, it's your choice. Crack on. Do whatever you want. This match was really entertaining and I really liked the commentary team just not being able to commentate for a while because it was like...

the level of destruction. It felt fitting. And Gabe Kidd then came out afterwards to attack Darby Allin, the hired mercenary for the Death Riders, but unfortunately he failed and he was very upset in himself at failing for this. And Moxie was quite upset at Gabe Kidd for failing. in letting Darby escape. I thought Gabe Kinsoul is all great. Yeah. I really, really enjoyed this episode. It was a great show. I thought this was a great episode. It was. Really, really good.

It probably shouldn't take us very long to do predictions for Gush in Paris. Matt, when they ran down this card on Monday Night Raw, I thought it was a joke. Is that it? Yeah, a little bit. Is this what you're doing? Yeah. Is this the best you've got? Yeah. I kind of actually do feel, you know, I'm not going to feel bad because people are going to have a really good time.

Because if you go there, I mean, you're getting some stars on this show. You're getting John Cena. You're getting Logan Paul. You're getting Roman Reigns resting on a B show. You're getting that four-way. You're Becky Lynch, Nikki Bella. You are seeing stars. So you're going to have a good time. But at the same time...

I do feel some sympathy for those people who said that they picked this over Forbidden Door because they picked it before any of the cards were announced. Hey, Paris is a lovely city. That's not what I've heard. It is a lovely city. I love Paris. I've never been. Well, then you have no opinion. That's what I've heard. And what I've heard is that it's a sh**hole. That's lovely. Love Paris. But also, I... Do you know what? Am I super excited?

no but I look at this card and I'm like you know what you probably pull something out of the bag here I'm gonna have a fun time with you know what I mean I think it's gonna be entertaining um yeah Let's go into it. So let's do, for the Women's Intercontinental Championship, it is Becky Lynch defending against Nikki Bella. I'm going for a Becky retention here. The women's division in WWE at the moment is on absolute fire. I've really enjoyed watching the... past SmackDown and Raw.

because they were locals, I made a point of watching them all with my mate who's staying with me this week, who isn't a wrestling fan, and fell in love with Becky Lynch the second she said, I have a hot American husband. She was like, queen. Yeah, good for you. I've really enjoyed...

All of the doing, you know, the weird lesbian love affair situation, like this ambiguously gay duo of Rhea Ripley and Eosky. All of it is really good. And I've quite liked... as a since we're not going to get a women's championship match because they need to figure out what they're going to do with that title because you know um it's rather than just quickly shoehorning something in take a bit of time and give us this instead i like it as a workaround i think it's going to be entertaining i

I think Becky Lynch will retain this belt. Yeah, I feel bad that Stephanie's not on this show. Yes, I do too. Yeah, I think they could have. They had time to figure out what to do with the Naomi pregnancy announcements to have a plan so they could still do the world title match here in Crown. champion but i guess it also it makes more business sense to do it at wrestlepalooza but it would feel like a bigger deal but also for there's a world where stephanie um

If she wasn't going to win from Naomi there, it's different. But it would have been a different loss than a loss to someone for the title. Who are you going to put it on? Do you know what I mean? There are some questions for long-term Stephanie Bacare story that change if she loses to someone else than Naomi, if that makes sense. So I get why they've taken a little pause.

Roman Reigns is taking on Bronson Reed. I've got Reigns to win, though. It would do a hell of a lot for Reed if Reed won. I just can't imagine it's going to happen. No, I think it will be a Roman win, too. I don't expect anything from this match that I couldn't do with two action figures at home. Do you know what I mean? That's not meant to be a criticism. I just imagine we're going to see an awful lot of that little corner by the...

the announce table which is the new announce table that's going down pretty quickly there'll be a barricade spot but they'll probably rebuild the barricade then they'll do it again yep 100% I think this is going 10 minutes and I think it will be good I wish this was a fourth kind of match

Yeah, well, you kind of, because you've got the good old-fashioned Donnybrook match, which is your hardcore match of the night. I guess you don't want to do too much of the hardcore gimmickry, which is Sheamus versus Rusev. I've got Sheamus to win. Yeah. But I do think it really could just go either way. I think it should be Rusev. I'm going to go with Rusev on this one because I think that... I think Rousseau needs to win more. Yeah. Like Bronson Reed, if Bronson Reed beat Roman Reigns.

It would do amazing wonders for Bronson Reed because that is a hell of an accolade to say you beat Roman Reigns on pay-per-view. This is the guy that beat Okada when he went to New Japan Pro Wrestling. It would do a lot of good for him. I just imagine that Roman's going to win.

But I think... Because also Bronson's fine. And Bronson loses nothing by losing to Roman. But I think Rusev gains so much by winning this feud. I think the only reason I've got Sheamus is because it's the... I get... the impression that what we're leaning towards here is a tag team like this is the new version of the bar so by having Seamus win the feud and have the begrudging respect afterwards and they shake hands that is how you form the team together which I think is probably easy

year to do if Seamus wins than if Rusev wins yeah yeah I think it could work either way I think I think Rusev that's it I hadn't thought about that eventuality I think Rusev winning creates an opportunity to do either That will keep him single and go on a tear. That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that. It's a fatal four-way for the World Heavyweight Championship as Seth Rollins defends against CM Punk, Jey Uso, and LA Knight. Yeah.

I've got Seth Rollins retaining. I have too, and I'm really excited for this match. This is the one that made me look at this card and go, oh, actually, there is something on here that I'm quite looking forward to. Yeah. Honestly, everything on the card I'm looking forward to, it just doesn't feel very special. Yeah, it does feel a bit B-show. Do you know what it really reminds me of? Do you remember when...

Rollins was champion he was on that like series of shows with Nakamura yeah and you and I were reviewing them to being like like these are good shows but no one's going to remember that these shows happened that's my sort of general vibe of Clash in Paris when we come to the end of year awards no one will remember that this show happens yeah and then the main event it's John Cena vs Logan Paul honestly I could not care less about this

I really do think that they have bungled this John Cena final year in the most spectacular fashions. I think it started with such promise. Sure did. And I think there was... I think Triple H's creative has shown it's really good at the art of the pivot and they just haven't exercised that skill in this. When you realise it wasn't going to work out, how do you pivot? And I think just turning to...

turn the switch off and just get on with it for me was a mistake there's a narrative that can be told here and they i thought they were seeding parts of it yeah there's a saudi show classic knight of champions or whatever it was um they just didn't go down that road i wish they had yeah whatever this match is going to be fine johnson's going to win it yeah i just thought what a waste of a cena match i would not got that many dates left and i just think this is a waste of a cena match yeah um

Brock is, I think there's more of an argument for it because that is a big marquee match. Yeah. And they've got history. And they've got history and you're going onto ESPN. Like, I think that... As much as I think that I wouldn't have done it, I get the business mindset of doing that match. This here...

And I guess the business, but I just don't know if Logan Paul is bringing in these casual viewers that you keep saying. Not anymore. Like, that's why you put Logan Paul in these positions, because he brings in the Logan Paul audience. I just don't know if he does. No. I just don't get the impression that it does. So I think this is a waste of a Cena match. Cena's going to win. I'm sure it will be broadly fine. Yeah.

It is two stars. That is what this match will be, and it likely will be the main event. So I am looking forward to the show in the terms of I think I'm going to have a fun time watching it, but I'm not like... chomping at the bit to watch it. I'm glad it's on a reasonable hour. Put it that way. Yes. I can watch it. I can have a nice day. A nice Sunday.

Watch it at my convenience. As per usual, because I will watch this the following day, it is going to be two and a half hours, three hours maybe at the most. And I will get it done within 50 minutes. Yeah. Because there will be so much downtime between the matches. Each match will probably go 10 to 15 minutes apart from the main event. Maybe an hour and I'm done. Yeah.

Happy days. Yeah. So I'm just going to read out some of the comments from last week's show. Please do get your comments in down below and over on Spotify as well. We asked people last week if they did hear anyone say beer Monet, which is a thing we're trying to get started, trying to get James Storm to sign with AEW. I had one person do it to me, and it was while I was queuing for beer, and I thought they were offering me beer.

and then it was like it was like beer it was like what he was like my name i was like oh right yeah i did ask people to do that give me second person to do me a forbidden door i thought the exact same thing great yeah because i they were going to go and get beers these things need workshop workshopping but we didn't have anyone leave a comment about that however

i do know this person in particular they said after the fantastic forbidden door i went to progress 100 volts as a second ever wrestling show even after forbidden door i was not disappointed the kanji riho match was very good i found my new favorite tag team in sunshine machine and the crowning of man like de reese with

The 15-minute celebration was an amazing experience. Though we live 1,800 kilometers away, I'm going to start saving money for All In and Progress next year. You're saving money. Get tickets for RevPro. And if you want to make a building, Riot will be doing a show as well. Yeah.

Go to as many shows as you possibly can. But the reason why I wanted to read this out is because they've written here, PS, remember the first real world champion was George Hackenschmidt from Estonia. Cheers. So we did a meet and greet on Forbidden Door weekend. And this couple came up to us.

And, you know, took their photos with us and stuff. And then charged us to name who was the first ever world champion. And we both went, probably someone like George Hackenschmidt. It was like, yeah, where's he from? And they were like, he's from our home country. And then the lady of the partnership.

pulled out the Estonian flag they were like every now and again would just reveal new clues for us to try and work out where they were from and I was like I don't do flags I don't know what flag is what and then basically I do because of Eurovision and then basically what happened was We named every country in Eastern Europe apart from Sonia. Great.

So yeah, but it was really nice to meet them and thank you for the love. So I think that your jetty holiday will be to Estonia as penance. So I just really enjoyed playing that game. Thank you very much. Mr. Deegan here says, hearing Luke talk about being overwhelmed as Scotty Too Hotty was in the room and...

knowing that he met Scotty Duhati last night at Wright Cabaret. It's a good story right there. I could not believe that. Oh my gosh. When Scotty Duhati came out, I actually, because obviously we record it on a Thursday and then it airs on a Friday.

And I met Scotty on the Friday. I turned to Edison Kieran and I was like, I'm pretty sure on the Thursday podcast, I said I'd be too overwhelmed if I ever met Scotty too hard. You did. I was there. And I literally did meet him. Yeah. It was absolutely...

it was joyful it was joyful i had a wonderful time uh nice chap and his son's very nice as well mike here this was left on spotify he said the best thing wrestling wise i saw this weekend was the clip of pete dunn showing up in riot cabaret coming out to his bruise awake theme I missed that bit. Because in traditional British wrestling, Riot Cabaret started late. It went to the interval. Late. It came back from the interval. Late. And that meant that I had to go catch my life.

Last train home! It means I missed the last two matches. So, you know, I'll put over Hustle at every opportunity I possibly can do. Every show runs to time. there you go oh it's wonderful yeah wonderful it runs to time but we were there uh right cabaret everything overran ref pro looking at my watch and i'm like it's about to be a nine o'clock the main event has not started this show is supposed to finish at nine

I live marginally closer to Clapham than I used to, so I'm actually alright with Cabaret going late. And lastly, I just wanted to read this out. I can't quite read the name, but it's like Epileptic... Tony, maybe. They've got a picture of Pennywise as their thing. That's the most internet thing I've ever heard.

yeah pretty much but say here we were talking about the ESPN Disney deal last week and they said that one of the reasons they managed to get out of the Peacock deal early is because they were doing two night events and bonus events sneaky and they were basically just like well we've done all of our shows that we said we're going to give you now

And they've written here, I like that two night PLEs count as two nights when they're talking about dates, but only one night if they're talking about attendance. Right. It's a very salient point. Very, very good point. Lastly, before we get out of here, what's your recommendation for the week? Anything.

Yeah. I'm reading a book at the moment called The Racket by Connor Nyland. Nyland, I don't know how to pronounce the name. He's an Irish number one tennis player and sort of was like, it's about the world of tennis.

from the perspective of someone who's also there. So like he's playing tennis alongside Federer, Nadal, Andy Murray, all the rest of it. And it's just really interesting. I'm not too far into it, but it's really interesting to talk about like a thing that requires that much discipline, but also...

you're jockeying for position it's competition someone has to be there to you know make up the numbers that's a very disrespectful way of doing it i find a really interesting perspective on like sport and performance really as someone who's going into performance and like you need an ensemble you need chorus there's no it'd be lovely to be the star but everyone has a part to play how do you

maintain your focus and that is really interesting very interesting uh my recommendation for the week aside from if you can get hold of it any of the wrestling from this past weekend uh patelia rev pro which was an awesome show and right cabaret which was so much fun if you can get a riot cabaret show definitely go if they're doing a slam ball match which is it's my new favourite gimmick in wrestling it's so wonderful it's essentially it's football

where you have two teams and the idea is to hit body slams on each other if you do you score a point great and they do all like big football celebrations every time someone does one it's five minute intervals so they then switch halves great yeah strong yeah Wonderful, wonderful stuff. But my actual recommendation is get yourself a VPN if you're not in the UK. Get on the BBC iPlayer and watch Chapel Rowan's Reading Festival set that she did, which was...

So, so good. You might say it was hot to go. I might do. I got a little bit emotional watching it because Reading Festival was very near and dear to me. Like that is where I spent my teenage years was going to Reading Festival. That was my summer holiday every year as I went to Reading Festival. I didn't actually go on holiday with my parents.

I opted instead to save up my money and go to Reading Festival. And that was what I did with my summer holidays every year. It's all about going to Reading. And I genuinely did get a bit emotional because I was then watching. I think it'd be quite easy for me as an old man to then just be very jaded.

about the whole thing and being like these kids here they don't know how good it was when i went but actually i when i was watching it i was just watching a lot of this new generation in really having the best weekend and i i was it got a little bit choked up so i'm like oh that's that's where i was

And it's so nice that it's still here. Yeah, for a new generation. For a new generation of people. And then getting to see someone like Chapel Rhone, who is just fantastic live. He's like such a good performer and stuff. But I also watched it with my three-year-old, who... lapped it up yeah because she went

bonkers for hot to go and for pink pony club and actually i know i didn't even know this was one of the ones she also loves good luck babe ah tune which because that was like the second to last song that she played but we also had that under the car now and again it's just not a song that she requests

But she was, like, really excited to hear that one as well. Yeah. So, yeah. Go and check out Chapel Rowan's performance at Reddy Festival. It was great. But that's going to do it for this week. Thank you, Dan, for joining us. Pleasure. Thanks for having me. Do you have anything you want to plug?

no no okay well i've got something to plug it's ollie's book use the pre-order use the link in the video description down below pre-order your copy uh today and also subscribe on wrestling on youtube whatever uh apple podcast spotify leave your comments and all that good jazz leave a review on

apple podcast because maybe that'll be how you leave a comment hello that's gonna be my challenge for you leave a review on apple podcast and maybe we'll read out some of them on next week's show if it's good enough to be read out love you all uh we'll see you on monday for the or podcast review of Clash in Paris. Love you. Bye.