Was Jon Moxley vs. Darby Allin Anticlimactic? AEW WrestleDream 2025 Review!

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You there! Yes, you there! The one listening to this podcast! Hello, it's Luke Owen here from the WrestleTalk Podcast. Hope you're doing well. This is just a little quick plug to click the link in the podcast description because there is a survey there. The Fine Folk at ACAST are looking to build a better profile for their podcast listenership, so...

Give us a hand. Help us out a little bit. Tell us who you are. Tell us what you like. And you can do that by clicking the link and doing the little survey. It should only take a few minutes, so I've been told. And it would really help us out. Thank you. Enjoy the podcast. Was John Moxley versus Darby Allin anticlimactic and weirdly...

paradoxically, did it also go too far? I'm Oli Davis. I'm joined by Luke Owen DAD. Welcome to the WrestleTalk podcast review of AEW WrestleDream. We're here every Tuesday and Friday normally, so please... subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from that could be here on youtube that could be over there on apple podcasts it could be on spotify or exciting news everybody jazz jackhammer has found another place we're available

Excellent podcast, fellas. I must say your guerrilla marketing strategy is really paying off. I was in my biology class earlier in the week and we were using microscopes to examine cells. We were eventually required to get a sample of our own cell tissue from inside.

our cheek to examine and much to my surprise when i put my sample under the microscope and focused the view i found my very cells had formed into a qr code leading to this podcast i don't know how you did it or what this may mean for my genetic structure but I'm impressed nonetheless keep up the good work

Yeah, I think the problem with that strategy so far is that what we tend to find is just people who are already listening. Yes. So we've really just managed to attract people that we've already got anyway. From what the marketing people tell me, they say you've got to read. You've got to retarget the existing audience. Then the algorithm learns what types of people to target next who aren't already listening. You've got to make a clone.

And as we know, the way that genetic modification is heading in this AI-led world is that we're all going to be an algorithm soon. So you might be thinking like, well, that's a weird thing to say you're putting QR codes into people's blood cells. And then you were like, and then the algorithm again is, we'll all be an algorithm soon. Yeah. Do you know what an algorithm is? Just before we move on. Yeah, you know, it's one of them things, isn't it?

Does something with the, like, like AI and compute, like the computer games, the non-playable characters. They're probably algorithms. It clatters up my YouTube homepage. It's made Twitter unusable. That's where an algorithm is. Algorithms. And also, please get in your chats to wrestletalk.com forward slash support. We'll read out every single one over five US dollars with your thoughts on this show. But first, we start with...

gladly the main event. Should have been the main event. I think even as anticlimactic as it was... Being glib. This should have been the main event. It had the bigger build. It's the year-long story starting from Mox's Deathriders heel turn about a year previously. And as much as I really enjoyed the Samoa Joe versus Hangman Page match. Loved that match.

they would have really struggled to follow this match. Yeah, and it's not like they would have struggled because of the level of violence that I think we were expecting in there. You know, like it's when Swerve and Hangman did their series of...

wars, and then you had to have a world title match, follow it afterwards, you were like, ooh, I probably would have ended with the wars. And they ended up doing that when they did the unsanctioned cage match deal. But with this one, it was less about the gore or the big mad spots. It was Sting.

Samoa Joe and Paige would not have been able to recover from the big pop of Sting. Christmas Sting. Jack Frost Sting. Love old man Sting. He looked awesome. So yeah, of course, he appears in the final moments, really. All the lights cut out. and he appears there, takes out the Death Riders with a bat. But he's got the face paint on, but he has not dyed his hair. So he's got this, like...

big mane of white hair. He's got the big beard of white. But it's still got the face paint on and everything. And you're like, is it really Sting? And then you watch him throw a bat shot and you're like, that's Sting. There's only one person who does a bat shot that way. So I... read that the St. Louis Sports Commission, which is where WrestleDream took place, had some things you couldn't do. You couldn't brawl in the crowd. You couldn't do blood.

And so the blood in this match was actually a blood capsule to get around that. And just general hardcore spots. You couldn't go as far as you normally would. I think they managed to get them pre-approved. Yeah. In that case, I don't know why you would book...

an iquip match with moxie and darby for this show bingo that's what my thoughts so i didn't know this when i did my edited review but i posted up and i was like it was all right it was actually kind of tame considering that the one of the builds for this was a molotov cocktail i was like all right

A tiny kid's fish tank is your big spot, is it? It just seems a bit silly and a bit, like, I don't know, tame. And then someone put in the comments, like, Brian Alvarez said on Wrestling Observer Live, and I hadn't heard this at this point, was that, yeah, the St. Louis Commission were like... can't do all the stuff you want to do which i would argue is poor planning on aew's parts yeah i agree weirdly though sometimes these things backfire on the more puritan bodies that are trying to uh stop

people being as violent or sexy or whatever, like Saudi Arabia, for instance, I would argue skin tight leather outfits and PVC outfits on women is more erotic than them just wrestling in their normal gear or t-shirts or t-shirts here. because they were trying to have that level of violence and visceral visuals rather than, but without doing the outright blood stuff.

Early on, Moxley gets, I guess, they're like wooden barbecue skewers. You know, they look like long little spikes. Yeah, the spot that you usually do in a match is you put them on top of someone's head and jam them in. Then you let it go and you get sort of like a little pineapple top to your head. Yeah, but this is a core memory of mine. Like in the inside out story of Ollie's brain, it's watching the movie. Is it Siriana? The George Clooney movie when he's a spy and they're in terror.

And they start pulling his fingernails off. And that's always stayed with me. I think about that moment every other day because I'll just look at my fingernails and go, oh, I'm glad they're on because they took George Clooney's off. And what Moxley does is he obviously doesn't do this, but he works it so it looks like it's happening. He's putting these skewers underneath Darby's nails and pretending that he's ripping them off. Yeah.

So I was in a bit of a weird headspace watching this match. So I actually sort of watched this semi-live. So my kid had a really disturbed night's sleep on Saturday night. and like she just came in at like half past one i think she had a bad dream so she wanted to cuddle with us she wanted to watch wrestle dream so she's a sicko

so she was like can i get into bed with you so she did and she was there for like a couple of hours and if i don't know people who've got four-year-olds who often get into bed with you you'll know they're kicky creatures and they just like they move around the bed too much so i can i didn't sleep very well and then about half past three she woke me me up she was like i need the i need a wee so i got up took her for a wee then i took her back to her she said i want to go back to my room

Took her back to her room. Ten minutes later, she came back upstairs and I was like, bud, I'm not playing this game. Took her back down to her room. If you're losing track of the layout here, Luke has a five-story house with multiple wings. So you already said you went downstairs and then you went upstairs and she went upstairs again to your room. I am in a, what do they call it? A mansion.

A three-story house where we have a lovely little bit on the top floor. Anyway, I'm not rich. I'm like the broke bucks on this match. I wish I had $32 in my bank account. Got to pay for the house. And so anyway, at this point, it's about 4 a.m. And I was like, I'm just awake now. I'm going to go watch Wrestle Dream. Excellent. So I went downstairs. Every cloud.

i went downstairs and i watched i went on to fight and i just went from the start and i watched it broadly live uh but i did fall asleep eventually um just as the brodido tag match died i just like i couldn't keep my eyes open so i just i fell asleep for a bit and then i woke

up about halfway through this match i had to go back and restart it but i think that in my sort of sleep addled mind none of it really affected me even the fingernail stuff which i think would have affected me in any way just had nothing on me and then the taser spot Did nothing for me? Why, I don't think taser spots really.

They don't work in 2025. Just to go through the spots, there's no big entrances or little Derby short films like we usually get for these big blow-off matches. It's really just straight into, here we are, it's the match. Yeah, there's the blood capsule early because Moxley used the chain that was round Darby's neck to punch him in the face. Duh, Darby.

You should have used that first. Yeah. That's when Moxie gets the wooden skewer things for the males. Moxie gets hung with the flag over the ropes. I thought that would have actually been a more fitting finish. well given how hangman yeah had beaten moxley in the past i think that would have because i thought that as well i thought it was just a nice nod towards that match but i don't think you wanted to finish the match in the same way um

Then Darby pours lighter fluid over Moxley. And everyone's like, oh my God, where's this going to go? Nowhere. The rest of the Deathriders come out and chuck him a towel. Yeah. Which was good. that's all done you know like when your kids force field no i'm healed now yeah you got every single bit of light of fluid off him it makes me feel like they were gonna do that as a spot and then the saint louis no you can't do that i was like

Well, we're still going to tease it. Moxie gets a taser. There's a death rider on the chair. You know, these are all big spots. Claudio does a great misdirect where he's going to throw Darby on two tables on the outside. Instead, runs the... other side of the ring yeets Darby onto the announce desk. Spot of the match. Yeah, really good. And then Mox really quickly hits a Deathrider off the apron because Pac drags Darby around like this.

possessed henchman through those two tables and then comes the fish tank so to give the the match um the big bit of praise that i will give this i thought mox sold this match so great because there's a great moment is i think it was after the table spot he just grabs up bryce remsberg the referee and he's like why won't he stay down yeah like mox in mox's head he's like i know i can put him down

Because I'm Jon Moxley. I'm the leader of the Death Riders. I know he's a guy that keeps getting back up. I can put him down. And so he does all this stuff to him. Hits him with a taser. He gets Cloudy to throw him to that table. Deathriders through the other tables. And he still won't quit. And Moxer has this moment of realization where he's like, I don't know what to do now. And he's like...

what do I like? What do we do? Well, I don't know how to do this. And then, yeah, we get the fish tank spot. So while he's arguing with Bryce Remsburg, Claudio and Pac bring a little tiny little fish tank in. You know, a tiny kid's one, right? Enough for a head. Yeah, and they fill it with water and then Mox...

And he just tries to drown him in it. And I've never had a hardcore wrestling spot mean nothing to me so much. I'm just like, I just started to laugh. This is so silly. It feels like there should have been a little like... diving guy in the bottom of the fish tank and a little castle. A little head in there. Not derbies. I think...

Look, I cannot fault the performance from either guy, nor the bumps or anything like that. It's just you've you've had this year long story of suffocation in bags and, you know. getting lit on fire and flamethrowers, Molotov cocktails in the build. And I feel like all of the spots, bar the nail bit, which did really get me, none of those were on the level of any previous spot. So I was just like...

I don't see this as an escalation on what you've already done. Yeah, and it's hard to then not feel like it's an escalation when it's also the end. Like, this is the final fight between these two. And it didn't feel like... a big dramatic conclusion and with the fish tank stuff like that's new that's inventive not seen that before well i don't know if it's been done before like the bag had in like a i think a terry funk spot but even then it was you know i

I don't want to brag. I can hold my breath for a minute. Granted, I haven't then wrestled a 20-minute match beforehand. But I feel like if you're going to do a water-based spot, it can't be three dunks of about 15 seconds each. I think like you need to, especially where the violence of the feud is. And I'm not saying do an actually dangerous spot. I'm saying work it. I'm saying slip Darby like a little breath thing where he can stay down longer. Or maybe like...

Do we bring back waterboarding? Like, that's a horrible thing. Like, you could do a fake waterboarding spot. But I guess maybe the problem is, is the commission. If you've gone in there wanting to do all of this stuff and then they've gone, no.

then you have to compromise and you have to end up with this. But that again comes back to the poor planning side of things. Like you should have known ahead of time that you weren't going to be able to do the stuff that you want to do in this match. Ergo, I know that it's nice and poetic that it's one year on from last year's WrestleDream, but don't do it.

at wrestle dream when you're in st louis missouri and apparently they're like full of sarah stocks in the world and they're afraid of everything that might happen because won't somebody think of the children yeah so this this is uh the story that sarah stock who was a former agent i can't remember sarah del rey right is that who it is yeah i'm pretty sure sarah stock sarah del rey am i writing that sarah del rey what nxt women's trainer sarah del rey

I feel like she's quite forward-thinking in terms of wrestling. Oh, no, I'm completely wrong. Sorry about that. Except so I'm Claudio's. Oh, she was down Claudio, wasn't she? Because I only saw her stock from TNA. Well, she said that, you know, this is, children have got to be protected, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, it aired at midnight on pay-per-view. The kids.

If kids are watching it, it's the parents' fault there. Well, okay, here is where I'm going to slightly disagree with you on that. It can be watched on replay. You could buy this pay-per-view and then watch it the following day with your kids. I think where her argument slightly falls down is that when someone pointed out that she did a choking spot when she was in TNA, she just said, yeah, but my tits look good.

Case closed. We can't argue. We can't argue with the tits. So it just feels like she wanted to make a point and it didn't really land. So she just went on the... turns out she was a hypocrite very good the thing that really made me laugh is that she made this big argument and then a lot of people's replies was like uh it's on the parents to monitor this she's like

Yeah, that's the point I'm making, is that if you're a parent, you should turn this off. And Amanda Huber's got into it, and it's just like, I didn't cover this in the news, because it all felt so silly and name-calling, and actually, frankly, a bit childish. It looked like someone who was trying to do something for clout.

And no one comes at it looking good. And at the end of the day, it wasn't that bad. It's like the Gail Kim thing from a couple of months back. No one comes out of the situation looking any good. But the Sting stuff was really good. There is this argument here.

The John Mox... So what? Yeah, we should actually do the finish because we got the sting and then we got bored. Sting comes in, he beats up the Death Riders. I don't feel like he beats the Death Riders up enough to incapacitate all of them. Yeah, they're with the bats. He hit them with one bat.

and then he carried Marina off. Yeah, what more do you want? And then Darby hits, I think, Scorpion Death Drop, Coffin Drop, Scorpion Death Lock. Mox taps... relatively quickly in the death lock yeah it says i quit says i quit you're right and i guess what they might be saying other than we had a hard out and it was bang on 4.30, 4 hours 30, and we needed to get out of there, is Moxley is actually a coward. And when you remove the Death Riders from him, he quits relatively easily.

I don't think they told that story particularly well if that was what they were going for in this match. Nor has that ever been my reading of Moxley's character. I think he is a coward. He does run away from things. Because my criticism of the Death Riders early on was that... From what I was told by someone within AEW, Moxley's grand vision of this was to create an anti-heel faction. Not going to be like every other North American heel faction, because Moxley really...

doesn't like North American style of wrestling, and he thinks it's quite silly and stupid. So he wanted to do something that was completely different from anything in AEW and WWE. But very quickly, they just became any other heel staple within North American wrestling. I think that it sort of lost its weight.

that was moxley would run away from things or like marina would have to pull him away from something or claudio would have to save him from something i just thought they were a bit lame for me as well like what the commentators were also saying on

for the finish was he was in shards of glass from the fish tank yes but i don't think that was really translating visually from this i mean the ring was covered in water like it looked like he was he was drowning more than he was being stabbed in one inch like half an inch of water on the canvas i this did not work for me um And I think it is because I've actually rewatched the match again just to make sure it wasn't just me being in a tired state.

And it just did little for me. I think it was an anticlimactic finish. I think that the match itself was quite anticlimactic. It was far too tame, which granted is outside resources, but also granted should have planned better. I just don't think it worked. And the fish tank thing is so silly. Yeah, so silly. I think the fish tank thing could have worked if he was underwater for like a minute and a half.

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Let's see what you all think, though, on the chat. Oh, Omega Chats. WrestleTalk.com forward slash support. We'd add every single one over five US dollars. Alan, hello, Hannah, writes, hello, lovelies. What a show. Holy S word. How about this women's division? It's almost like the best way to push a women's division in successful wrestling companies is to book us the same way you would the men.

Shrug. Go figure. I roll lol. Well done. As for the lads, highlight for me were the tag matches. Bucks are doing their best work. Brodito versus Callis family was something else. Holy S word. Thinking of the teams they aren't using. Tag team wrestling. seen it as alive hangman and joe joe is the three out of three effing man what does that mean

Three out of three. I don't know. After our worst catchphrases thing, I don't want to speculate on anything anymore because every single one is like, it's actually a reference to a movie from the 1950s. Like seriously, he is still the wrestler for me and I feel so lucky I still get...

Still get to have him as much as I do. Hangman is still my champ, though. I just have the biggest fandom for Joe. Main event was, as expected, effing brutal. Hashtag lots of love, Jam Mac Jam. I would agree with... pretty much all your points except for that last one where you thought that the main event was brusel because i thought i thought that coffin match was great yeah i loved the coffin match so it's far more brutal it's not me being a prude i thought the

I thought the stuff they did in the cage match at Forbidden Door was far more than this. I didn't get any injections. No, right? I didn't get a single injection or maiming. There was a bit of me early on in the match where I thought... When does it become illegal? When does a hardcore wrestling match become criminal activity? Because I thought like, didn't they pierce Darby's ear last time? I started to think. Are they going to cut off Darby's earlobe?

I mean, I think he wants to lose something, right? I think he would be that sort of guy who's like, you know, like the fabled story of Foley losing half an ear in a barbed wire match. It's like, I want to have that sort of legacy attached to me. But it's, yeah, it's...

I don't know, with Derby and the sort of spots that they want to do or what the overall aim is. I remember when TNA... started doing janice when um abyss brought out his barbed wire board and i think and i can't remember if this is correct so i won't say for sure but i'm pretty sure it was cornet

like really ragged on it and was just like what's what next a gun like you're gonna bring a gun to a like where does it stop and i think that we now are getting to a point with wrestling where it's like i don't really know what else you can do now because you've like in AEW City you've done the big spot onto the barbed wire bats I don't know what else you can do uh oh

Everyone finds a way. Violence finds a way. Kuzu writes, the biggest takeaway from this show is that AEW's tag division is the best it's been in four years. The best matches of the show were the tag matches. A huge... shift from just a couple of months ago. Overall, great show with no real down points. That is a super... I completely agree with Guzzi there. The tag stuff on this. I loved the tag match. The title one in particular.

We'll get into the show. I really enjoyed the show. Too long, obviously. Take a shot if you're doing Oli Bingo. But I think the Monet-Shirikawa match was terrible booking. We'll get into why I think that. Grandmaster Flash writes, Hi guys, writing in early because I'm out of town. You guys kept saying no world champ has been born in the 90s, but rather no men's world champion has been born in the 90s. This actually helps your point as well.

women's wrestling feels fresh and fun right now sorry yes um this was luke's fact and luke doesn't what did you say off air you don't think women's wrestling is real wrestling it's not a real world championship is what i said But yes, of course. And so that was pointed out a lot. And you're totally right. We knew that we just didn't.

We were just talking about the men's side. We were talking about world champions. I think we were just looking at the men's side of things. We weren't really looking at the women's division. Typical of us. And finally for now, Pat the Booker writes, do you think there is any chance that this Andrade contract shenanigans in W...

is WWE's way of actually trying to work a deal with AEW to void the non-compete clause if they allow Adam Edge Copeland to wrestle in WWE one match versus Cena. Look, there's a really easy way to... work together with someone because they nearly had it with billy gun do you remember when they did the dx reunion and they asked atw can we have billy gun on the show and atw said yeah If you credit him as AEW wrestler Billy Gunn.

And WWE said no. And then they went out and were like, we tried everything we could, but AEW were working us too hard, man. They just wouldn't have Billy Gunn on the show. It's not our fault. It's really Tony Khan's fault. If you'd have just asked him, like, what credit is him as AEW wrestler, I'm pretty sure...

had you not also been dicks to them for the last four years, you could have worked something out. Yeah, we tried to get Edge in for Cena's last match. We even screwed up all their Andrade players. I don't know what else you want us to do, guys.

Right, keep on sending your chats in to wrestletalk.com forward slash support. While we get on, oh, actually, before that, we should give a big plug to our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash wrestletalk, because right now you can watch the Cebu documentary.

you can do indeed Sabu the documentary about Sabu on his journey to his last ever match against Joey Gennaro in GCW which was supposed to be his last match regardless and then it had his unfortunate passing is available to watch over at patreon.com forward slash rest talk at the $6.50 level and if you upgrade to the $11.50 level we have got an exclusive shoot interview with Rob Van Dam and the movie's director Joe Clark and those two also record a director's commentary for the film. It's very

It's a weird universe where we're now emailing Rob Van Dam. Yeah, and he's emailing back. Yes. He emailed back an emoji recently. Just no other words, just an emoji. The files were too big to send him one email. So we got a bunch of emails one after the other. It was really strange. Rob Van Dam. You know, WWE, ECW, wrestling legend. Hall of Famer. Hall of Famer Rob Van Dam. has email size restrictions just like any one of us.

This pay-per-view wrestle dream started. Actually, do you want to cover the tailgate brawl or the stuff there? I mean, it's just standard AEW pre-show stuff. Death Riders beat Roderick Strong in the conglomeration. Frat House were the surprise answers to the Hook Kingston squash. And they won. It's not my best use of Eddie Kingston I've ever seen. Willow Knight and Gell and Harley Cameron won their match against Megan Bain and Penalope Ford.

But the best thing about it was, and I've been wanting a company to do this for ages. is to have a match on the pre-show that bleeds into the main show. Because the whole point of a pre-show is to try and convince people on the fence about buying the pay-per-view to buy the pay-per-view. So if you're watching it and you're enjoying a match and you're like, oh, I need to see the... conclusion this much.

better call my cable provider to go and get the rest of this pay-per-view. Granted, they didn't do it the best way possible because they only wrestled for about two minutes and then they went into it. Whereas what you want to do is halfway through a 15-minute match. That's the best optimum way of doing it.

Yeah, because then it seems like it's unpredictable as this element of chaos. Oh my God, this match is still going on and the pay-per-view is about to start. Nothing can withhold the hate these men feel for each other in the ring. But what was very cool then is when the main show started.

These two are just like they're doing the hockey fight spot in the ring and the show starting fireworks start going on. It looked awesome. And it made this crowd go bonkers because I think they all realized, oh, the pay-per-view started. And now it's just on. And they were like, you don't get the usual like, welcome to WrestleDream. You're just in the middle of a match. The crowd were on fire then. The St. Louis crowd were excellent for two and a half hours.

And they got tired. But they came back for the end. Yeah, so the match was Mike Baitwork, Jet Speed versus FTR. Really great stuff. They're both two great teams. That when people are talking about, oh, what a great night for tag wrestling. They're including this in there, I bet. But the Mike Bailey-Dax stuff in particular I thought was fantastic. But Stokely held Bailey's boots down when Dax made the pin. So FTR won. Yeah, there was a great spot when they did the flip out into the shadow.

machine i guess that this was really great stuff throughout uh lovely cheap little way to win for ftr as well would have felt like the right finish on the pre-show felt like a weird finish on the main card jamie hater and tecla then was like the show opener, weirdly, which I would not put that in the opening spot. This is a very old structure of a pay-per-view. I really felt like you had all the...

normal blood feud, not blood feud, but grudge matches in the first three, four matches. Then you started to have the title matches. Then you had the title plus blood feud. Yes. Whereas these days they often start with one of what would be the main event. in another era yeah apart from a wwe which i feel like because they just book five main events so each one of them just feels like a big time match maybe like the opener will be roman reigns versus someone

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, even your opener feels like it's a big main event match. But you're right, this was more almost like the TNA way that they used to do things, which was you build throughout the night. Your first half is, actually in TNA days, first half's not that great. I'm talking about 2010-2013 TNA. Not that great, and then the main event's a little bit better. Because this is, no offence, the least important match on the card.

Yeah, I would say it's important in the sense of, it's a third women's match on an AEW pay-per-view, and it's not about a title. But yeah, it's not the most heated of the matches. Really, it's building the War Games match, the Blood and Guts match. have some triangle of madness versus Jamie Hayter and friends. Queen Aminata. Yeah, Queen Aminata came down. Hayter won in the end in decapitating fashion, which is the best way for Hayter to win. Tekla does her spider stuff.

stands up and Hayter just clobbered her with a Hayter aid. I really enjoyed this. Yeah, and then hit another one. And yeah, that's the match. I didn't...

Not really got many notes for this, but it was a nice hard-hitting match. Yeah, this felt like it was the hater that we've been missing. I think since haters come back from the big injury, not the most recent of our injuries, but the big injury that kept her out for 400-odd days, we've sort of been missing... the Jamie hate that we all fell in love with when she was the world champion.

And this was the first time I was like, oh, there she is. I can see her through this Daphne Blake filter that she's got on. I can see it now. I feel like Tekla's the one to push more, but I get why she won here.

We also had Charlie Fez. Yeah. Lou Fez's widow. Yeah. And she was a spot in the match. Didn't see this one coming. So do you know Tony Khan used to... chat to lufez when he was 12 or something i saw him talk about this during like one of the press conference calls or whatever it was we were just like yeah i used to i would chat to lufez like if you would do what would now be known as a reddit ama it would have been like

on a Geocities thing or whatever, just chat to a wrestling legend. You send in questions and then they respond back to them. Brilliant. Tony Khan, we give him a lot of flack, but... He's one of us. Well done. He's an absolute nerd. A wrestling nerd. We also got Blood and Guts advertised for November 12th. Dynamite, right? Yeah, must be. So four weeks away.

This is a clear advertisement in this match as well. Yeah, it's going to be a women's one. Finally. Yeah, I think you'll probably have Triangle of Madness.

Megan Bain and Penelope Ford. And then you have Jamie Hayter, Queen Aminada, Willow Nightingale, Penelope Ford, Harley Cameron, and a fifth one who will be... Oh, let's just say... brit baker oh chris statlander i suppose you could put chris has got that like relationship with willow and camera yeah i get yeah actually stat makes the most sense but she's now the women's world champion i guess and she's going into a mercedes-benay thing but it made me

What better way to lead the charge? She can just go on a little side quest. After that, we got the Young Bucks. Alex Windsor. The Young Bucks versus Jurassic Express. I think a lot of people have said this is their favorite match on the show. It was excellent. I feel like usually this would be the opener because it's so high octane. That's what I mean. Maybe the FTR match changed that line.

up but yeah the bucks came out they had an 8-bit bank balance graphic for their entrance where it said all of the transactions they've made like it's i don't know dead shot looking at these uh waiting for money to come through in the suicide squad and yet Their balance right now totals $32.17. Yes, and that's what they were credited as when they came out, the $32.17 bucks. And the fans were paying them for photos during the entrance.

really funny like there's someone who had a sign that said i will pay for a photo op and nick jackson immediately just walks over there's a half it might have been max you just like a half pose and it's immediately like what's the money hand the money over there are fans at ringside holding out money for them

This is getting over. But then they had the half a million dollars in a bag on the commentary desk and they looked at it so much. I thought, oh, my God, the money's going to get thrown everywhere in a big spot. But it was only used right at the end. I thought it might have been that they'll move it and then green paint will shit up into their faces. It's a trap. So Jurassic Express, the story was they've never beaten the Bucks. So you could tell...

Maybe that was going to change on this night, but that didn't undermine any of the unpredictability because this was an excellent match. With loads of inventive spots. There was one where Nick did a stomp on Jack Perry. Perry is draped over the top rope. He bounces off.

from the sort of recoil force of the stomp, and he hits a hurricanrana on Matt and rolls into the hot tank. Yeah. Incredible. It was absolutely, like, bonkers. These four have got... insane chemistry together and i think you know it's it's really you'd expect that with matt nick and jack perry but luchasaurus just fits right in there with them this match was i totally get why people would have this as their favorite match of the night because it was that big

It went about 25 minutes. So it was given loads of time. Everyone got their stuff in. Everyone got their moments to shine. Didn't feel like your standard tag match of just working over one person to build to the hot tag. For my money, I thought the tag title match was better. I was way more into that one than I was this. But you cannot take anything away from the foreground.

in this yeah the the only other real positive from this was jack perry being a baby face again you know when you see some people as a heel and you're like why do you ever turn face he's so much better as a heel jack perry as a face Like.

it just works in a way that i could never get on board with these heel scapegoat character i totally get why you did the scapegoats i totally get it i think it was a really good idea but maybe sometimes not everything's a good idea in execution it's a good idea on paper

He was just worked over for so much of this match. And it was all about Luchasaurus, the dinosaur, saving him. But at the same time, Perry really showed his intestinal fortitude. He would kick it. He kicked out of a BTE trigger. Yeah, that's my negative I've got on this match.

I had one too many of those near-fall kickouts for my taste. So Jurassic Express win. And afterwards, it looked like they were going to make things up with the Bucks. I mean, I couldn't tell. I didn't know if they were mocking the Bucks by just giving them...

$10 or whatever. I think they were trying to help them. I think it was an olive branch, but then the Don Callis family jumped them before the Bucks had a chance to respond. And then the Bucks walk off and they did look a bit mournful, like sorrowful. Yeah, they are... This is the story of the Bucks at the moment is they have hit rock bottom. They've had the highs of being the EVPs and they came crashing down and it hurt inside. And then they got some highs again because they got a real quick...

Easy fix. A load of money. And then that left as well. And now they're realizing that money's not going to fix their problems. Being EVP is not going to fix their problems. Money's not going to solve their problems. What they need is friends.

But they haven't quite got to that level of realization yet. All they know is they are sad and they don't know why. So they're sad that they lost the match. They're sad they don't have the money. And then Kenny Omega runs down to make the save for Jurassic Express.

And he's going to them being like, guys, come on. Don Callis family, they're all dicks. And Matt and Nick are just like, I don't know. And they just walk off dejected. It's a nice story. For me, Bucks... just be heels a bit longer like a lot actually a lot longer there they've been heels for like two years now no they haven't oh wait i guess they were evps and before that they had no they turned heel last april right

On Tony Khan? When they did heels before then? But they retired Sting. Yeah, were they heels in the Sting match? That was the one I was going to... ask i think they disappeared for a bit they did disappear for a long time and then they came back and they were heels when they feuded with sting and that led in the match yeah that led into bvp stuff yeah

And this is the year after that. So maybe it's like 18 months then. To call it fair, maybe 18 months. But I think they're so much better as the sort of dickhead heels. Like that little July-August run, that's prime bucks for me. But yeah, Kenny came to, I was just like, superkick Kenny. Superkick Kenny.

But Kenny made the save, and yes, they walked off. Then we got The Demand taking on the Hurt Syndicate. Really fun Tornado trios match, so everyone's in the ring at the same time. But it was mostly... The demand took out the syndicate in their entrance and they would gang up on MVP. The weak link. Yeah. And then they would gang up on Shelton. But then the syndicate came back and they turned it three on one on Ricochet.

And they beat Ricochet. Yeah, nothing to write home about with it. I thought the hardcore match they had on Dynamite was better. I enjoyed it more at the very least. I really liked the finish, though. Loved the finish of this, which is like, because the story has been...

the demand isolating one of the hurt syndicate by taking out the other two come up and city happens and it's ricochet on his own against all three members of the hurt syndicate and he sells this as like oh no i'm really gonna get beaten up here but bishop khan drags him out the ring and takes his place and badassily stands up to all three of them be like i'll take you all on

And he tries his best, but it's three on one with the Hurt Syndicate and they're going over, brother. So they just completely lay him out and hit the spear to get the win. But I thought it made Bishop Khan look really cool. Yeah, GOA, this has really helped them. And hopefully they now go into the tag.

That's what I'm hoping to. Which is really lively. It's back to what Kizzy was saying in the Omega chat. It's not just that main event tag team scene we had with Brodido and the Don Callis family. It's the Bucks and Jurassic Express. It's FTR and JetSpeed. And I'd say it's GOA as well. I love Shelton Benjamin. Yeah, he's great. He is definitely the best thing in this act now. Yeah, he's awesome. And you want to talk about guys who have...

not aged at all. Like, he still looks, like, broadly like he did in 2004. There was a spot when he did this excellent lobbing suplex on one of them over the top rope. It was Ricochet. Oh yeah, of course. And everyone... on the outside everyone's on the outside and uh benjamin looks at the camera and does this smirk and he then he starts to move and do you remember his old gimmick yeah where he was the shifting eyes and it slide off the screen

Got a little flashback from that. So this was a number one contenders match, interestingly, for the trios championships. Yeah. We'll have that on Dynamite against the Ops. Babyface versus Babyface. Well, aye. I get the feeling they might be winning them trios titles right there. Kyle Fletcher versus Mark Briscoe came next. TNT title match. The first championship match of the evening. And I think this is actually my... favorite it's difficult i love i love the tag title match but

I don't know, I just really got into this. I thought it went a bit too long. Yeah, maybe, maybe. I think this also went about 25 minutes, and I don't think this needed to go 25 minutes, particularly because Mark didn't win.

And I wonder if that's also part of it. Maybe it's not just a case of I thought this went too long. Maybe I'm being slightly worked on it as well. That it's just the guy that I wanted to win in this match didn't win.

But I thought they told a really good story. And it's like, I really enjoyed the match. Don't get me wrong. I thought it was a banger in many respects. Because Mark Briscoe is so, so good. And Kyle Fletcher is just... insanely great but really what i was looking from this match is for mark to win and carl fletcher to ascend up the the ladder a little bit and work like not be in sort of this lower mid card section i think he's grown out of already but i said that before he even won the tnt title

That's what we were saying in the build. We're like, well, Mark Briscoe should win because it frees up Fletcher to ascend. But I don't know, as the match was going on, I was pushing that really hard as well. As the match was going on, I really felt like... Ah, Kyle Fletcher's something special. And as much as we want him to move up and be released from the mid-card belt,

I think him having a longer run with the belt is better for him, which means it's better for the future of the company. Love Mark Briscoe, but he's no spring chicken. No, it's very true. And unfortunately, it just does come at the expense of Mark Briscoe. I feel like Briscoe is becoming a bit like AEW's Sami Zayn, in that he's got all this heart, he's a great wrestler, he makes everyone look good, but he's just never the guy. No, but I think Sami Zayn can be.

the guy i think maybe they've missed the boat on that uh with sammy like they can't do it with mark at this point here but speaking of sammy that's kind of what i'd like for kyle like to just do like weekly title defenses on tv where he just has banger matches because that is one of Kyle Fletcher's real strengths, which you could also do with Mark Briscoe, but it's different when you do it with Kyle.

I really enjoyed this match. I thought it was superb. And like the corner Brain Buster finishes is so great. And Mark really made me believe he was going to win this belt. It's the magic of Mark Briscoe. I just, if it were me, if I was producing this, I'd have probably shaved five.

six minutes off of it yeah the the biggest near fall was three consecutive froggy bows in different um sort of areas of the ring and was that where there was one oh there was a jay driller off of that and then kyle got one

finger on the rope yeah the crowd totally bought it to the finish as well really good near four i really loved that match i thought it was very good and kyle cheated to win so he gave a low blow behind the referee's back which let him hit that brain buster and then as they pose on the The Don Callis family. It's Don. It's Kyle. And why is El Clon here? Because he's part of the Don Callis family. Yeah, but so is everyone else. And Andrade's not around at the moment.

Because they're trying to get edge to wrestle John Cena. We can't have Andrade here at the moment. It's clonster. I really don't. I really don't get it. Me neither. And it just makes me get like, why is he here? It would work if you still had a hologram. And again, I don't want to sound like a broken record. He's under a mask. You're going to put somebody else in that role.

Then we had Tony Storm versus Chris Statlander. The crowd had started to get tired in the previous match, but I think they really, you know, particularly for the end, they were alive in a big way. But then came Tony Storm and Chris Statlander, which was a fine... I loved it. Oh, okay. I thought this was great. The crowd were just tired.

And it had nowhere near the level of reaction that other matches had beforehand. I feel with Tony Storm matches, because this is like the third time this has probably happened now, because a lot of people said this about the Forbidden Door match as well, is that no one was into Tony Storm and the match that she was having. that show which i i thought them actually had where the theme was quite heated from where we were sat yeah

But I feel like people are super into the Tony Storm character and the entrance and really react to her. The second the bell rings, they kind of lose interest in her a little bit. Until she does, you know, the running bum attack. Which I find sort of bizarre in a way. But I thought this match was great. I thought the work rating was superb. I thought Statland did a lot to make sure that you know that Chris Statland is the top of this division. She's dethroned the most successful.

AEW women's wrestler of all time in Toni Storm. And she did it. without any assistance she didn't do without cheating she just did it because she was the better woman on this night and i thought that storm did an incredible job of making sure that statlander came out of this looking like the top dog of the division it was really decisive as well

Chris had her in her head scissors for ages and Tony was dying. And it was Tony Storm who said, murder me or something to that effect. So Chris hit her with a Saturday night fever. Pinder, Tony hugged her and then stumbled off. It was all... I know what you mean. I just feel like the match was...

I can't fault the character work or the characters. I really like it all. And the presentation for the entrances, both ladies got special. pre-short films that sort of evoked 70s, either conspiracy noir or science fiction. I felt like the match layout was stilted. In that it was, I do a move, you do a move. But because the story was they're both very evenly matched and then Chris got the better at the end.

And usually you do those matches, I don't know, they have a bit more of an organic intensity. But the way this played to me felt like it was just two people doing moves. Doing moves. That's fair. Like, yeah, it works for me. But yeah, I really enjoyed this. It's also face versus face. That can often, you know, and as we know from my GM mode, Tony can't be getting an email from Triple H tomorrow. So then came the bit that I thought was the...

Not even the weakest, just a bad part of the show. And this is Mercedes Monet comes out right after. Members of the frat house are holding her belts, her 11 belts, I think, by this point. 10? I think it's 10 at this point. Because I think she's now at 12 because she's just won her new title. Just won the... Yes. Back to Winnipeg Women's Championship. So Monet comes down. This is the...

Already announced open challenge for Mercedes-Benz. Was it already announced? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. When was this announced? I feel like it was on. We didn't do this on the predictions. I mean, there was an open challenge for Dynamite. Maybe I'm getting the two confused. I think this was unannounced. And I thought the reason why Mercedes was not on this show is because she was in CMLL on Friday.

But then I was like, well, Magisera can make it back. So, you know, why can't she? But yeah, I thought this was an unannounced appearance. Well, firstly... Oh, apparently it got announced on CMLL. Right. Monet comes down. and says, Chris, get out my ring. And Chris Statlander, the champion, just gets out the ring. Yeah, because of what she was going to do later on.

i don't know i feel like it didn't come off that well here oh that's that's what i got from it like she got out of the ring knowing knowing exactly what she was going to do and it works because monet's promo she cut later on she was so under she was so in monet's head and so under her skin that Monet completely reacted in exactly the way that Statlander wanted her to. Yeah, I didn't buy it as much as you because Monet's there.

Get out of my ring. And anyone back there who has a title, who wants to put it on the line against my TBS title. Like, come on, this is my open challenge, title versus title. And there's Chris. Granted, she's just wrestled a match, so she shouldn't tactics-wise be going, well, I've got a title. But it puts her in a really bad position just visually. That she's a babyface fighting champion. Could win a second title. She's walking away from this challenge.

That's the bit that doesn't work. The smarts. She should not do it for smarts reasons. But I think it's a bad idea to put them there. Anyway, then we have, who's the open challenge? It's Mina Shirakawa. the interim ring of honor tv women's champion i was racking my brain being like i think athena's hurt who on earth is it going to be coming out here so then mina I've just written here my cat would attack a lot of Mina's outfit. Just loads of like fluffy balls hanging off string.

But I think an open challenge on a pay-per-view like this, you've either got to make it a big surprise. So if it's not a title on the line, a Shayna Baszler, something to that effect. Or, I don't know, a Caden Carter. No, a really big name. But Mina Shirakawa coming out, who is a Ring of Honor champion, like this is a legit match you could have built up for a couple of weeks on TV.

It's championship versus championship. Monet is going to add another one. Yet they just throw it away here in a match that I felt died in this spot. People got into it at the end. You talk about going too long. This is like 20 minutes. 16 minutes it went. 16 minutes. Felt like 20. It could have lost a good six minutes on it.

This only needs to go 10 minutes. And it's a shame because right at the end, there's some really good work and a near fall. Like the work was good, but I thought the booking was really, really ineffective for this. And it really scuppered.

a big-time program you could have done with Mina versus Monet, title for title. I completely agree with you on that sense. I think the booking of this is where I think it does fall down. The stat stuff I've got little issue with, apart from the walking away from defending your title and looking to send you a winner.

another one but this going 16 minutes credit to it much like the mark briscoe match i did really get into it by the end and and i thought that mina might actually dethrone her but there was a story you could have told here which is it was either friday or saturday she uh monet became the longest ever tbs championship so you could have built it as either

this is the day where I will become the longest reigning championship, or I'm going to celebrate my longest reigning championship in a match with, and I'm going to add another belt to my collection. That's why I thought that she wasn't going to be on the show at all because of the CMLR appearance where she wrestled Persephone. She's clearly not going to be back. Otherwise, you definitely would have advertised and built a Mercedes match. I think it's a misstep not to do so.

And really this was done so that Mina can lose her title as well, even though it's not really a real title because she's an interim champion. So she can lose her title as well, so she can start tagging with Toni Storm for the women's tag titles. Well, have her lose it. I'm just saying, set this match up three weeks ago. And what's really odd as well is that, according to 5-4 Select...

Listed internally, this was Mercedes-Benz versus Mystery Opponents. Whereas at least with the Eddie match, it was, no, they put the frat house down. But this one, it's being kept as a guarded secret who it's going to be. So if it's just going to be... Mina Shirakawa, who's on your roster. I don't know why you'd do this such a guarded secret. Maybe there was another plan that fell through. Afterwards, Chris Statlander did run down, laid out Monet and posed with her belt.

Because she was doing it on purpose. Oh, wow, yeah. Really showed her beating her up after a match she'd just had. Real good babyface champion vibes. Yeah, she was stealing her spotlight. Yeah, I...

I think she should have answered it there and then. But yeah, this has been confirmed. It will be champion versus champion at full gear. Yeah. Sorry, someone was saying like, I argued that you need to give more time to the women, but then arguing that this match should have been shorter. You do realise it's a balance.

I think that the Statlander I think the whole pay-per-view should have been shorter I think the Statlander Storm match should have had more time given to it but I think this match should have had less time given to it because it's about heat and build

Yeah, if you have built this match up appropriately, it should go 15 minutes. Exactly. But you didn't. So therefore, you shouldn't do an impromptu 16-minute match that's going to get very little heat from the crowd. And what do you know? It's got very little heat. from the crowd. But then we did get arguably the best match on the show. This match ruled. This match ruled. This should have gone another half an hour.

Bro, they went half an hour anyway. I know. I'd have gone for another one. Really long match. Brodido defended their tag team championships against Okada and Takeshita. A lot of debate over whether Takeshita would lose the week of winning the IWGP heavyweight title. And they did. And they combusted. They couldn't stay together because Brodido beat Okada. They pinned Okada, which is going to spin off into Okada versus Bandido for the unified championship.

On Dynamite. That's exactly right, yeah. I loved, loved this match. I'd like to join your train, if I may buy a ticket for it, for Bandido. It should always be Bandido. I'd push this guy to the moon. Put more belt on him. Hangman Page? He's a cowboy. Bandido.

He's got like an outlaw gimmick. Yeah. I didn't even need it to be a title versus title thing. Just do the match. Just do the match. This was awesome. And Bandido. Like Brody Kings. So great. And these two just work together perfectly. But the way Bandido moves around.

around the ring the selling of his busted arm because they they played off the finish that they did on dynamite where he couldn't do the 21 plex because of his her arm which is what led to okada uh pinning him that was right on dynamite yeah okada pinned him So they do it here and he can't do it. And then Brody King fires him up with this like fighting spirit style thing. So then he does a one armed 21 plex on Okada to get the win. I just thought it was awesome. Yeah, because on the episode.

episode of dynamite afterwards bandido was really upset like oh i'm not good enough you know afterwards because he caused his team to lose and that's when brodie was like no you you are great and he gave him this pep talk and he did it here as well in the match yeah really like Really good story character booking that gives you a sort of emotional thrill when it pays off. And also, so you've got that dynamic with Brodito and Bandito's somewhat crisis of confidence, and he resolves that by...

getting the win. And on the other side, you've got Okada and Tekeshta, these two faction mates who hate each other. Okada hates Takeshita so much. But Don Callis is like, no, they don't hate each other. It's just spirited competition. That's what a good family would have. Well, my reading is Don knows that they hate each other and he thrives on the bickering. But Okada...

And they're working really well together at the start. Lots of quick, efficient tags. You go in, you come out. But then when's the first... Oh, sorry, Okada does the Macarena with middle fingers. I never thought I'd get to write that down in a WrestleTalk News episode because Ujiko Okada did the Macarena. Yeah. Then Takeshita thought... So Okada set up the middle finger spot with the old Rainmaker pose. And...

As he's doing it, Takeshita hits a move and he walks straight into Okada's middle finger. So it's like, oh, there's a bit of tension there. And that went straight into the Brodie tag because they got their eye off the ball. Yeah, I thought they... So great. But the finish then saw Okada hit the Rainmaker, but he accidentally lariated Takeshita because I think it was Bandido ducked out of the way of it. And that's what led to Takeshita to the outside.

And a card of selling of this was, oh, no, I shouldn't have done that. But oops, I don't mind that I did because I hit him in his stupid face. First it was the hands over the mouth, and then he took his hands away, and he has the biggest grin. Oopsie! This is not what I thought would get from Okada in AEW. It is totally different from New Japan Okada. I can no longer say it's less good.

unfortunately for okada though it was his demise because then he was end up being double teamed by brodido and he was the one that got pinned and it's i think it's okada's first pin for loss all year long yeah i can't think of many defeats he's suffered. He's super well protected. And that was one of the other reasons why when we did our predictions, I thought that maybe the Kalos family will win the tag titles here because you're not going to pin new IWGP heavyweight champion Takeshta.

And you protect Okada so much, I don't think he's just going to be taking a pinfall in a tag match. But I think they did it so well here that it didn't feel like, you pinned Okada? How very dare you, Tony Khan? It was more a case of, no, he got pinned because of his own... idiocy really in hitting and not actually hit it not him to catch does not the idiot part of it it was the that's not the worst thing in the world that i hit him

It really was the worst thing in the world that you hit him. And he got pinned by someone and it's led to a title match. So it's done to build Okada Takeshita and it builds a match between Okada and Bandido. Thumbs up all round. Yeah. Yeah, they've been bubbling that the Takeshita Okada feud for so long.

long you need something huge to take it into that next phase and a card of taking a pinfall loss is definitely that yeah um and yeah brodido i feel like brodido because i only won the belts in august didn't they And they've been tagging a bit in the tag team tournament in the run up. For me, when they won the belts, they were two singles guys working together.

Now they're a fully-fledged tag team. This is a coherent tag act. I love them. And Bro did the Macarena at the end. Love it. Speaking of tag teams, Rene, who, you know, should... Look pretty chill for a woman whose husband is about to murder someone. They have done a very good job of separating church and state when it comes to Renee on TV and Renee in her personal life. But she interviewed Tony, who's almost unresponsive. She's so dejected. And Mina sits next to Tony.

and says, we've lost everything, but we have each other. Clearly teasing they're the first ever women's tag team champions. I think they're very likely. I was about to show myself about this on the hunt, but I think that they're likely to win these belts. belts i forgot were a thing well i still don't know why they announced them when they did why you don't announce something and then four weeks later be like in a week's time there'll be another update on it

You have watched AEW before, right? They do that with talent all the time. And then the final match we'll talk about, because the main event was Moxley versus Derby, was Hangman Page defending his world title against Samoa Joe. Oh, I loved this match. Great. This match, okay.

Want to get a good example? This match went 16 minutes and it was the perfect length of match. Yes, exactly. Not everything has to be 20 minutes plus. This was a 15 minute slobber knocker. Yes, it was. You had Samoa Joe, you had Hangman Page. they just beat the piss out of each other and at the end hangman went into super cowboy mode yeah he hit what was it he would have just shouted bring it on mother effer i was so great and the

Joe was like, all right, then put the Kikina clutch on. Page is fading. He gets a foot on the ropes. Then the muscle buster is reversed into the dead eye. But Joe stands right up almost. Hangman hits two buckshot lariats. But Joe does not go down. He's still like standing up like he's been shot on one shoulder. He's been shot in the other, but he's still marching forward.

The third one, though, puts him away. One, two, three. Not a near fall there. Perfect booking for a match. Yes. Loved it. A baby bear length of match. If it had been five minutes shorter.

have been far too quick. If it had been five minutes longer, you've overstayed your welcome. It was just... perfect and ideal every single thing they did hit and it landed and they told a great story in there because at the end of this match who was the better man who was the guy that's going to lead this company who is the real champion of this world it's hangman adam page and he did it by beating Samoa Joe on this night in the best way possible which is why he made Joe's

heel turn afterwards, all the more devastating. And it got great heat from the crowd as well. Yeah, I think it's a really good heat because everyone loves Hangman. And I think... A lot of us love the idea right now of Joe being a bad guy. And we're on board to boo him. You know, it's not like, oh, what a cool bad guy. We can boo this guy. Okay, it's been interesting because I...

worried it might be the opposite finish your point so what happened was Joe the ops come down they're in the ring Joe raises hangman's hand it all seems good respectfully the better man did win you've finally beaten me hangman page but then joe turns on him with a laria and more shockingly like i did i couldn't quite

comprehend what was happening for a moment and then shibata and powerhouse hobbs are beating hangman up too just joined in muscle buster onto the world title hangman sold that's so good yeah because he's still got that injured neck from the calf Fletcher match. Really effective angle. And yeah, personally, I was like, OK, I'm here for Joe to be a heel.

So I said in my edited review, I was slightly concerned because I think it's, I'm on the fence about, the angle itself was great. I'm on the fence about the decision. I'm all for this feud continuing because I'll get more matches between Joe and Hangman Page, which rule.

Are you going to boo a group that consists of Samoa Joe, Powerhouse Ops, and Katsuyori Shibata, who are so cool? I just don't know. Because they're not going to resort to cheating tactics. So are they just going to get heaped by...

being awesome like i don't know man like i don't know if you if this crowd are gonna boo samoa joe i think joe could be really violent towards hangman and keep target in the neck and doing bad things in that way and we're like no no no don't don't hurt hangman that much please stop joe it might work against hangman

Is it going to work against the Hurt Syndicate? Is it going to work against the Demand or whoever else they're going to face? The frat house. Yeah, you'd have to book them correctly. Jurassic Park. Book them against Jurassic Park.

Grant, Ian Mulder. And you know what? And Jurassic World as well. Both franchises, six or seven movies now, book the ops against all installments. Yeah. When I was watching Jurassic Park the other week, me and my brother did look at each other and was like... it's weird there's like seven of these movies now when i watch this movie it doesn't feel like there should be another six sequels yeah but they all say something totally new

Yeah, I think you'd have to book the ops against the right kind of guys. Eddie Kingston and hope you could. Kingston would be a guy, yeah. Because you could be like, oh, he's... Kingston gonna get injured again. It needs to be against babyfaces that this crowd love and adore. Like if you put them against the acclaimed and someone else, like, you know, because the acclaimed now back together more or less. I think the ops are going to get cheered. Yeah.

But they do need to be in the ring with beloved characters like Hangman Page. But he is kind of unique in a way in how beloved he is. Because you look at that audience, the makeup of the AW audience, there isn't like a detractor to Hangman Adam Page. 100% of the audience are behind him.

No, I've been in a building where that has happened. I've never really felt 100% of an audience love the world champion and want to see the world champion win. It works against Paige. I don't know if it works against anyone else other than maybe Eddie Kingston. But yeah, really good show overall. Too long as usual. That's, you know, I've got to say it. Well, it's four and a half hours, right? Yeah, four and a half hours. It is long. And the Monet bit I thought was bad booking.

I can't fault the wrestling. I thought the wrestling was great, but I think that the segment was badly booked. I would agree broadly, yeah. But yeah, some excellent matches. Really exciting stuff with Joe in the future. interested to see what happens to the death riders so they move on from moxley if he's not got their respect anymore yeah and it's gonna be curious with them because they've just added garcia to the ranks so it's not like the group is just gonna disband

You know, because Garcia's only just joined and you've still clearly got a story to tell between him and Yuta. So yeah, so I can't see them just being a group that isn't around, but maybe they're a group that's going to take a bit of time off. Maybe it's just... Maybe Mox will get that vacation. Maybe I'll take some time off from the company.

Well, let's get into your final chats. Real Double J writes, you know I share your love of hashtag pure cinema. Maybe Mox and Darby wanted to do a homage to that scene in Casino Royale with the chair and the rope. but standards and practices insisted on something more along the line to face Ventura with the fish tank. Do not!

go in there all in all four star pay-per-view um yeah the chair and rope is the uh he's just hitting him in the bollocks Kyle Jeffries writes, as a Missouri native, St. Louis, Missouri has a notorious sports commission that has shown to have heavy bias, and they are not afraid to temporarily ban sporting companies for minor infractions to their very, quote, Fluid rules. Kansas City, Missouri may have been a better venue. Good local knowledge.

And we've also got this one from Misha Sumra here. He says, Tekesha Okada is a spicy long-term booking. KT will win the C2. Okay, so we're going long-term here. Can I ask KT? Can I ask KT? Oh. Yeah, not Tunstall. Suddenly I see. Katie Tunstall is going to win the C2, turn face, leave the Tom Callis family, possibly in that order, win the Unified Belt at World's End, then to successfully defend the IWGP Belt versus Okada at Wrestle Kingdom.

Love all the content, lads. Now, I wondered whether they would do Okada versus Takeshira at WrestleKingdom for the IWGP Championship. But that does mean New Japan's biggest show of the year. is headlined by two... not New Japan stars for the New Japan title. Well, I think that might be where New Japan's going, especially if Tanahashi faces Nakamura in his final match at Wrestle Kingdom. Do you think that's a possibility? Apparently...

That's what Melt has said, apparently. Not that it's going to happen, but the discussions are being worked on. Yeah, there's a lot of... machinations that needs to go on there. A lot of political games you need to play in order to get that one over the line. I think New Japan unfortunately are in a place where they just don't have the level of top, top stars like they used to. Zack Sabre Jr.

And evil would disagree. Have you not heard about this Sonata guy? So I think realistically, to set out the Tokyo Dome, it's something you've got to do and just use that card to really build, hopefully. the stars underneath. Ideally, you'd have them work with other people, but Takeshita versus Okada is a dream match. It is. And Takeshita is their world champion. Yeah, but I thought it might be more of a Kenzo.

It's Takeshita versus Zack. And you do that rematch to make sure that it is your guy. It's your guy. I think if you're a wrestling company, you want to make sure that your main event of the show features. I totally get about, you know, wanting to sell out the Tokyo Dome. I want to say about making the most money, but also you do have to have a long term. That's such a short term win. You need to make sure that you've also got.

your guys looking good coming out of it and i guess unfortunately that is the story of new japan pro wrestling because they really haven't had a guy since they all left and went to WWE and AEW. Ospreay, Okada. Nakamura, Styles. Once those guys all started to drop off... while they were building a lot of guys they just didn't build anyone for the post okada canny world

But for your point, Misha, yes, I have Takeshita maybe not winning the C2, but certainly making it towards the final, probably against Takada. And then you have the greatest tournament wrestler. versus Takeshita. I think Okada probably wins, which sets up the Wrestle Kingdom. Yeah, that's a good shout. I really like that. But thank you very much for joining us here today. That's all we've got time for. Thank you for all your chats as well. We'll be back.

tomorrow with the Raw review. I've got a poll. Let's see what the poll says as well. And go over to patreon.com forward slash WrestleTalk because you can watch the Sabu documentary there right now. So it's a 72% thumbs up show, 23% in the middle. Well, very good stuff. We'll see you tomorrow for Raw. Jam that jam. Bye.

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