Is John Cena’s Heel Turn Working? WWE Evolution 2 Fail? AEW Dynamite Review

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Through the Ladder Box, where you can get kitchen appliances, screws, and most importantly, this podcast. And podcasts. In today's show, we are going to be going through the Evolution 2. stuff maybe it's been set up to fail by wwe we'll certainly find out we're also going to be reviewing this week's dynamite dynamite 300 and we're going to kick things off with this john cena heel turn because

I think it might be coming to an end at SummerSlam. Although I've actually got a much bigger brain play for it, which I'll go into in a little bit. But the current sort of like feeling and vibe at the moment is... They're going to do the double turn at SummerSlam. Well...

Is that the current feeling or vibe? Or is that your fantasy booking from a couple of weeks ago? Okay. And we've got carried away. It was my fantasy booking from a couple of weeks ago. And then Night of Champions happened where Cody won through... not exactly babyface means, and...

Cena did the hug thing with CM Punk. He was fighting off Seth Rollins. He tried to kick him in the dick. Well, yes, of course. Then he went back to being, but there are like little moments where it feels like we're just planting. So the double turn when you do it at SummerSlam doesn't feel quite so much like a gear shift. So you're kind of doing it in the same vein of WrestleMania 13 with Austin and... No, no, that happened at the match.

13? Yeah, 13. It is 13, yeah. Yeah, because everything else on that show, apart from Lex versus Undertaker. No, Sid versus Undertaker. Sid versus Undertaker, where Sid pooped himself. Sid pooped his pants. Is bad. Yeah. But I would say... that the better detail, because he definitely, the hug was actually the most heelish thing John Cena did. He did the heel face, which I always think now, you know there's that episode of The Simpsons where...

Bart plays a video in the library and it's a recording of people who look like objects. Right, yeah. And there's a man who looks like a kettle. I think when Cena does the face, the heel... serious face. He looks like that kettle. Interesting. Go and check it out for yourselves. Do a side by side. But in that match and in the R-Truth match, Cena had the chance to hit his opponent with the belt.

threw the belt down instead. Yeah, chose not to do it. Whereas Cody had the story at Mania of, I can't use the belt. And since he's come back, facing faces, his baby face friends. like Jey Uso, like Randy Orton in the King of the Ring tournament, Cody has become more aggressive. That doesn't necessarily mean a heel turn. That could just be the story that Cody needs to man the F up. to beat John Cena at SummerSlam. So it's less of a double turn and it's more of just a...

It's turning Cena face in the match via Cody winning the title in a more aggressive, like actually pulling the trigger that he could not pull at WrestleMania. Because I think if there is a full-on double turn, it's the... Because Bret...

Didn't really cheat at WrestleMania 13. No, he was just more aggressive. He was more aggressive. He was actually more heeling the build-up to WrestleMania than he was in the match itself. Nope, nope. It only happened at the match. But Stone Cold, he gained the respect of it. everyone yeah i don't think that's a dynamic we'll get here i think cody has that out and out sheet like it's not just cody hitting cena with the so if cody hits cena with the belt unprovoked. That could be a heel turn.

Yeah. With a kick in the dick as well. Cena has to go for the belt shot first, and then Cody could stop him. Kick in the dick, belt shot. That's just eye for an eye, baby face revenge. Exactly. But... If Cena is actually, like, he goes to use the belt, but he throws it down because he's trying to do it. But then Cody picks it up and hits Cena with the belt. Yeah.

Absolutely a heel turn. Yeah, and I don't think that's actually the worst direction to go in. And I think one of the other things that has exacerbated this conversation, or certainly kicked this conversation into a new gear, is that both Cena and Cody have done interviews, different interviews, different...

different outlets talking about Cena saying I'm turning baby face and Cody Rose talking about turning heel and I think like all of that combined with what's been put on screen has led people to the path of maybe the double turn at SummerSlam so Cena did that interview where he said This heel tone's pivoted.

The whole thing's been a pivot. This was not the plan for Cena's retirement year was to be a heel. Never the plan. This only happened because Elimination Chamber ticket sales were bad. I thought Meltzer said it was always the plan for Cena to turn heel. Going back to last November, that's when it was first pitched, but it was meant to happen at Mania.

in the main event. My point, when he announced it at Money in the Bank that he was retiring next year, it was not the plan for him to turn heel within that retirement year. And then, because ticket sales for Elimination Chamber were low, that's when... Was it Ari Emanuel or Nick Khan? Ari, cool.

up The Rock, Ari who supersedes Nick Khan and Triple H and everyone. Ticket Cells are struggling. We need to bring The Rock in to boost something. What have you got? And he pitched Cody Rhodes turns heel. They switched it to Cena turns heel.

and we are where we are so this whole thing has been a pivot and Cena was saying in this interview my heel turn has been a pivot we've made a lot of changes along the way and it's going to be dictated by the fans so if you want me to turn babyface you've got to let people know and if you want whatever you want to see Cena

do in his final year it's up to what the fans want and then Cody in a separate interview is being like I feel like I'm coming to the end of this babyface run you know you can't be a babyface forever I'd love to be a babyface forever but you can't be a babyface forever because the fans will always want something new from

you however he did also add in there that's maybe a one to three year plan he then did an interview this week where he was like i don't think turning heels ever in the conversation which has made me think he's definitely turning heel or Here's to play devil's advocate. Cody is a good interview.

And I think part of that is because he's very legitimate and honest about his feelings about the wrestling business and characters. And yet him saying, oh yeah, no one should stay babyface forever. I probably will turn heel in the next three years. That is like...

That's a totally normal thing to say. But everyone, us included, it's like... could that mean he's turning heel because you know it's wrestling and if someone says that you're like well he's in this storyline could that be this and now cody's like oh i thought i was having like a grown-up conversation where we can have nuance now everyone's saying i'm gonna turn heel when that's not the plan yeah uh so that could be wying's backtrack there i i feel like the last month i know you said that the

the initial Cena thing was technically a pivot. But I think they, WrestleMania, like, Elimination Chamber, heel turn came early. WrestleMania, Cody losing the belt to Cena. And then Backlash... Cena wrestling Randy Orton in St. Louis, Randy Orton's hometown. That all makes sense. I bet that wasn't a pivot once they decided you're going to turn heel.

In fact, that was probably decided last November. I was going to say, well, I actually think probably the second that they announced that Backlash was going to be in St. Louis, they were like, Cena vs. Orton will be our main event for the WWE title. Because I think Cena, regardless of whether he was going to turn heel or not, was always going to win the title of WrestleMania.

And yeah, and the other thing is The Rock, who is a big part of this story, but we've all kind of emotionally moved on from him now. Not everyone. Oh, I listen to some podcasts where they're like, when is The Rock going to come back, though? Oh, just give it up. Or, even though that's just like, we need to at least make references to The Rock. Cena needs to reference The Rock in a promo and explain why this has happened. Look, they are right.

He does need to do that. But it's not going to happen. I know, my point is not everyone has emotionally moved on from Dwayne. So there was a bad reaction to the Mania 41 main event. Sure was. Because it wasn't a good match. Nope. It had Travis Scott, and it didn't have The Rock. And in that, it's a smart crowd. They're booing Cody. Not overwhelmingly far from it, but they are cheering Cena and they're booing Cody. So right from the get-go, you're like, huh.

Is this a heel turn that's working? Yeah, well, we'd said this before, mainly, that this was always a possibility. Actually, I think we said this the second that Cena turned heel, that this was always going to be a possibility that the crowd would just start cheering Cena.

Because it's cool to cheer the bad guy sometimes. And it's seen as retirement year. So he's going to get cheered a lot anyway because it's the last time you're going to see him in St. Louis. It's the last time you're going to see him in Atlanta. answer it's the last time you're gonna see him in bumble f like it the that he is gonna get cheered in those places because he got cheered in london because it's the last time we were gonna see him in london

Yeah, there came a point in Shawn Michaels' career where they were like, you just can't turn the guy heel. Yeah. Because we will cheer and we respect him too much. Not that I respect John Cena as an in-ring wrestler. Sting's another one. Vince Russo was so determined to turn Sting heel. This is in the mid-2000s. So determined to turn Sting heel. And I was like, it's Sting.

This impact zone crowd are always going to cheer for Sting because he's a star. He's a massive star. But I don't think anyone thought, that's why the heel turn was so shocking, that Cena was going to turn heel in his retirement year, precisely because of all these things. because anyone who knows anything about wrestling psychology would go, well, he's not going to get.

booed really that much people will cheer him and they'll they'll see that this is a character that's being done and cena hasn't done that any favors by acting as a total baby face in all interviews like the moment the wrestling show ends sometimes within In the wrestling show, he's implying, acknowledging, this is a character, by the way. I'm going to miss all of you. At the end of the Backlash match, he walks up and he does soak in the cheers a bit. It turns out maybe he's just a bad heel.

Yeah. Like, you know, we've been talking about what happened with this heel turn. Maybe it's just one of the reasons why they've never turned Cena heel when Vince was in charge is because he's actually quite bad at being a heel. He just wants to be cheered. And I know people might look at Doctor of Thuggonomics or even Doctor of Thuggonomics.

it was 20 odd years ago and it's maybe he's just now does not know because it does that's one of the big criticisms it feels like he's playing a character he is not actually being that character he's just playing the role of being a heel in the same way that he would do in a movie i will put over though i i'm getting quite a perverse kick out of the heel run because it is this

Alternate timeline that I never thought we'd see happen. And really, the Raw show that we saw in London with Cena and Cody properly going back and forth for the first time. is one of the best things I've ever seen in wrestling life. It's one of my favorite segments of this year, and I still think it's seen as best promo for him. Aside from that first one.

Yeah. But he didn't really get anything. That was just like, oh my God, he's a heel. That's the toxic relationship one. That was a great promo. Because they had that kid in the crowd as well. Like all decked up in Cena merch. But like the promo we had in London, I still think is the best one of his run.

Remove the rock from the story. And I think heel turn, wins a title at Mania, wrestles Orton and St. Louis at Backlash. Makes perfect sense. But then post-Backlash, the next pay-per-view's Money in the Bank. that's when it starts to go off track for me, where it's not just about, oh, Cena, he's getting cheered, of course he is. That's the problem with trying to make him heal. It's sort of fundamental own goal booking mistakes.

So you've got the Saturday, no, you've got Saturday night's main event. Oh my God, there's been so many shows. Yeah, it's Saturday night's main event, then it's Money in the Bank. So Saturday night's main event is against our truth. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Out of the 25 dates you've got remaining.

One can be our truth. It makes sense to do this match. In the same way that people would say it makes sense to do the Joe Hendry match. It's a nice little reference to a small part of our truth's character, really. 100%. Not John Cena's. But then... This is the big own goal. WWE make their post-mania annual round of cuts, and our truth is amongst them. And...

That created a huge backlash from the fans. It became the dominant story in wrestling, really, at least online. And it overshadowed what Cena was doing. So at Money in the Bank... It's a tag match of Cena and Logan Paul versus Cody Rhodes and Jey Uso. Yeah, which was, you know, that was the plan. That was the reported plan coming out of WrestleMania, but it was going to be Cena and Travis Scott.

versus babyfaces likely would have been cody rose plus a n other probably jay uso and then it was going to be a six-man tag it then came out it was going to be cena

Travis Scott and Logan Paul versus Cody Rhodes and the Usos. And then clearly something has happened with Travis Scott. I don't know because I don't know the person personally. I imagine... the negative reaction he got from wrestlemania 41 has made him pull back from being involved in wwe and being like you know what this actually is becoming quite bad for my brand the travis scott brand to be involved with this because the people aren't getting on board with

what you guys are doing. So I'm just going to pull back from this. According to WrestleVotes, there was Travis Scott merchandise that had his imagery on it, that had all of his logos on it, and the Money in the Bank date on it that were there ready to go. And they never then went to...

make it or you know they made it but then never released it because he pulled out of doing money in the bank or if other rumors the training just wasn't working out and and something has gone awry that is not a pivot i mourn I'm okay with that particular pivot. Yeah. Travis Scott wasn't a good...

in-ring presence for these angles. Not particularly. It's mad that he will be one of the most remembered things of Cena's heel turn. He is a distracting... presence in the ring long after people have forgotten that he made music they will remember that he was there during Cena's heel turn and his final title win so that money in the bank tag match should all have been about Cody pinning SEMA. And this is the start of Cody's comeback against SEMA. But the R-Truth story...

is the biggest thing. R-Truth is rehired by WWE. He makes his return in the main event, attacks John Cena with this new, more serious character, reverting back to wrong killings. And no one's talking about Cody pinning Cena. They're all talking about R-Truth's back. Looks like he's called wrong killings. Absolutely, yeah. And then you can clearly tell, I mean, I fully buy into the Fiverr report that Triple H did not want to bring him back because...

What has that man done with R-Truth since bringing him back? I'll tell you what he's done. Back to the midcard. Cut his hair. Cut his hair and off to the midcard. Got a nice little haircut. So that's a bit of a cluster F right there. Massively so.

But then there's this bigger thing, which is, why didn't you do Punk versus Cena? Because they were going to do the Travis Scott match. No, no. I think the Travis Scott match, the Travis Scott tag match, Trump's doing the Punk match at Money in the Bank. That is a much bigger deal for WWE as a brand and as a ticket sale thing is much bigger to do than doing Cena vs. Punk.

Really? Yeah, of course it is. When you've got the South, look, okay, look, you've got two pay-per-views weeks apart. You've got Money in the Bank and then you've got Night of Champions in Saudi Arabia. Which of those two... Do you do Cena versus Punk on and the celebrity tag match on? Whichever date Travis got available for. But he wasn't there.

Well, yeah, because clearly something's happened. But we don't know. Maybe he was not available to do Night of Champions. So you're like, great, well, we'll do that at Money in the Bank instead then. He has got that weekend free. He's not doing any shows. We can book him for that show there. And then we'll do the punk match at Night of Champions anyway.

Well, if that is the case, they would have known at least two weeks in advance. That's enough time to go, oh, quick, let's just reschedule, seen a punk. And it makes way more sense. Massively more so. I was, because you were saying that, that was your big idea from the start of the year. Yeah. And I was like,

Well, you know, it's okay if they're not doing up Money in the Bank because the most important thing about the Punk Cena 2011 match isn't the fact it's up Money in the Bank. It's the fact it's in Chicago. They'll save it for a Chicago crown. especially because you want people to boo Sina and cheer the Challenger babyface. 100%, yeah. I mean, you probably could have waited for a Chicago show to do this instead. But I think, more crucially, I think they were waiting for the 10th.

anniversary of the pipe bomb. Yes, but they didn't really lean into that. Sorry, they didn't lean into the pipe bomb thing. He did a Thuganomics promo. Seen into the pipe bomb the week. beforehand. They didn't lean into it. They didn't lean into it. And then he did his version of the pipe bomb 14 years later, which is a Cena pipe bomb.

as being the doctor of Thuganomics. Okay, maybe what I'm saying is they just did it lame. Oh, I'm not saying they did it well. I'm not saying it was good. I just can't, I can't sit here and let you say they didn't lead into the pipe pump thing. but it was the whole build. Not on the actual anniversary.

I think they did, though. They just did it in Saudi Arabia and he was dressed like a prick. Like, that's what they did. It's what we all think of when we think of punk mentality. So, yeah, I just... At the start of the heel run... They're playing it right. Orton, like, you've got to go. Look, Cena's a heel. We need Cena to be booed. But people are going to cheer him because it's the last time they're going to see Cena. So let's stack the odds against the cheers.

for Cena by putting him against hometown babyfaces. That's why we get Randy Orton, a backlash in St. Louis. To then book... CM Punk in Saudi Arabia against John Cena and make a feature of that story. Which overshadowed the match. Which overshadowed the match, but also the feature going in. And yeah, he kind of apologised on the pre-show.

to the SmackDown broadcast that was never actually broadcast on WWE TV. On a place that is... It was broadcast. Not on SmackDown. No, I think that pre-show thing was broadcast on Netflix. Was it? Yeah, that's how people got footage of it. I thought it was a YouTube thing. Okay, so it was broadcast on YouTube. It was not in TV canon. Yes, okay, I see what you're saying. It wasn't in main show canon. If you are Joe Schmo...

viewer and you only watch SmackDown and you don't watch anything else, you don't watch us, you don't watch anything on YouTube, then yes, he did not apologise within canon. So this Cena Punk storyline, this feud, was Cena cutting the pipe bomb. which made him look badass. And the crowd were cheering him, and CM Punk looked actively stupid because he was selling for 11 minutes in a Slim Jim logo table. And Cena's cheered walking out. He does the mic drop. You're welcome, USA Network.

the extra two and a half minutes for free. No one laid him out afterwards. I didn't really talk about this when we covered it. The referee gets in the ring to check on Punk. Because he's, is he dead? He's been there for eight minutes. It's Triple H and Gorilla being like, I think the guy out there is looking a bit in trouble. Could you, can we send a ref out there to find him? And Cena flinches. I'm like, ah, very clever. They're doing that.

as a red herring bit, because they're actually going to have a run-in from someone else or something that does catch Cena and blindside him. No, no. Cena just gets to leave on top with the crowd cheering his name and Punk laying there, not really addressing any of the points. Doesn't either the week after as an exposed hypocrite. And then.

The match is in a place where Punk is actively disliked, which WWE have acknowledged and John Cena is probably going to be shit. That's not how you book a heel. No, I think they sort of managed to get away with it as well. Because it's not like Punk was booed in his match against... It worked as best as it could. Yeah, they did do a good job. They did a good job. As best of a job as they could do to make it work that CM Punk would get cheered in Saudi Arabia.

over John Cena. The problem was John Cena was likely always going to get cheered more than Punk was. And that is what happened. So I think they did as best as they could to mitigate that. But it's a problem of their own creation. Yeah, of course. Yeah, and I get that. And they're going to get the same thing at SummerSlam, which is why you may as well do the double turn. So this John Cena heel turn lasted from March to August, four or five months in total.

If they do that, of course. And then you've got, he said in an interview that his retirement match will be mid-December. I think John Cena, senior, try saying that three times. has also confirmed that it will be in Boston, Massachusetts. So can I give you my now big brain pitch idea? Because I've been talking about this for a while now. The double turn at SummerSlam. You don't do it at SummerSlam.

But you start to sow the seeds of what the scene of babyface turn is and the road's heel turn is. Now, granted, part of my pitch here does have to involve The Rock. Because... He is very crucial to this storyline. We've emotionally moved on. Yeah, I know. But I think you have to at some point acknowledge or bring The Rock back. If you're bringing back The Rock, you've got to acknowledge Travis.

It's fine. If you want to do that, that's absolutely fine. If Triple H has got to do a thing about it in Unreal where it's like it turns out he's going to pretend it was his idea all along. Great. The Rock wants to provide notes. Fine. Wonderful. Whatever it is. Rock wanted it to be Cody.

Rock wanted Cody to sell herself, not Cena. So tell that story of actually the Rock being like, you're not the guy that I wanted you to be. And Cody failing at SummerSlam and spending the rest of the year realizing... The only way I'm going to win this WWE Championship back is to sell my soul to The Rock and become the corporate champion. So you're actually telling a slow burn heel turn for Cody and a slow burn babyface turn for Cena leading to that final match.

in Cena's hometown where he can be the baby face that is cheered against the heel Cody Rhodes who officially nails in the coffin, turns heel, hits him with the title belt. wins it from Cena in his final match. And that will get legit heat on Cody Rhodes and will make him booed as the corporate champion. That's really good. Thanks, bud. I was ready to dismiss it.

The reason I think it works, obviously, you get Cena in a more babyface positioning. I don't think he goes full-on fake, but he kind of has to. That's his cartoon character. It's for his final match.

I think you do kind of want to end off with the, you know, talking to Stu, because right now that's an important part of his character, doing these little wacky movements that he does, his weird run to the ring, because where he's, exactly, that's the salute, and where his limbs don't move like normal human beings.

the action rig with no points of articulation run that he does. Bag of hammers. Bag of hammers. He's got to do all of that. Sliding into the ring, taking the t-shirt, do all of that stuff in his final match. I... So he... He... He loses the belt there. And that's him losing, that's his career over. And he creates a new, not a new start. I think a lot, I've seen some people say like, why would Cena should put over?

and make a new start and that's not actually traditionally how it works usually you use the retiring legend to cement a top star. And Cody is like, you know, how can you get more cemented than Cody Rhodes? Well, this gives him longevity. And if you are using it to facilitate a huge character-y gimmick, like a heel turn for Cody, that is a really good use.

of one of your top stars' retirement matches. Yeah, because the other thing with Cody as well is that it has now been confirmed. He's going to go do the Street Fighter movie. Don't know what his shooting schedule looks like for that. So do you want to put the championship on him? I don't know when the movie shoots, actually. I looked into this. It seemed like production was delayed because it was announced last year. Yeah. But it was slated for a next year.

release originally, but that's not happening. The other thing, the bit that I like most about it though, and I'm not quite sure how you make this work characterised, but there must be a way, is that John Cena's mission right now as a heel. is to ruin wrestling. And if he retires as a babyface because he's lost... In doing what he's done...

but he sees the errors of his ways. In doing what he's done initially, he has pushed Cody into the arms of The Rock, and you've got this new heel champion. Is that actually the monkey's paw thing? Cena retires as the face, the heroic face, but his mission to ruin wrestling has actually been achieved because Cody is now the heel champion.

with the corporate rock. It's a nice way to do it because the other thing I was going to say is you could rather than do it at the final match is that Cena can lose the title to Cody. before then and his final match is his last chance to win the title back and save wrestling um

It'll be the only other alternative pitch I'd make for it. But I quite like the monkey's poor idea of he has accidentally ruined wrestling because now the corporate champion, he's created a brand new corporation that's going to run roughshod over this company. More so than Seth Rollins. faction has has yet to do overall you know with the with the rock thing the travis scott thing the bad cena match the r truth stuff the cm punk saudi feud

Cody getting booed. It's a lot of points against it. I don't think it's been good. If... 10, 15 years ago when Cena was first reportedly going to turn heel in the feud against The Rock at WrestleMania, 29? 28? Yeah. It was the first in a lifetime, wasn't it? That's 28 then. 28, yeah. All the ideas we had for what Cena could do back then, new gear, all this. Say that the wildest, best idea we all had collectively is a 10. Where do you think this is on that scale?

Yeah, I think it's like a two or a three. I think this has been bad. I think this has been a bad heel run. I think that it has actually hurt a lot of the television product. I think it has made wrestling not as fun. Which maybe... I disagree with that because I'm actually appreciating the chaotic fun. This is... I can't believe that the pre-Levesque era chaos... Yeah. I've...

That itch has been scratched a bit with this Cena run. I think so. For me, it has made me less interested in WWE's... television product this year that's fair and has made me less interested in some of the the pay-per-views because i have not wanted to see these cena matches because the wrestlemania 41 was a real like you know

There's a real lighthouse of like, this is going to be bad matches. You're going to have to sit through bad matches for the rest. And it's happened with the Randy Orton match, which was half of it was so thunderously dull. And then the smoke and mirrors comes out. And then the tag match was...

thunderously dull until they start doing the hot tags towards the end. I think the CM Punk match, thunderously dull until you do all the smoke and mirrors stuff. Like, I'm watching thunderously dull matches for a good portion of time. But people don't remember those bits. No, they just remember the smoke and mirrors. Whoa-ho. Quite timely with Cody Rhodes. So I do think this has been a bad heel run. I do think it's been a waste of time.

I actually think it's been a pretty catastrophic part of senior retirement year. because it's not been the best use of John Cena, I feel. And I think we will look back on this in 10 years' time the same way that we do Austin's Hill Run in 01. I think we'll look back on it the same way of being like, ah, probably shouldn't have done that.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see where the business metrics play out long term because they're making loads of money. But I think people are feeling that, oh, something's changed. And that's what a lot of people felt with the Austin Hill term. Something's changed. Yeah. It's not a big instant thing, but...

Over time, people just check out. Well, what do you think of the 10 rating? Give us your out of 10 ratings down below. Yeah, and actually, while you're doing that, if you want to talk about the doctor of Thuganomics in the chat. Please go for it. This show is made possible by patreon.com forward slash WrestleTalk. All our wonderful pledge hammers over there who support the show and WrestleTalk in general. We genuinely couldn't do any of this without you guys.

you are amazing and this month you have probably the most stacked month since mania because tomorrow as this episode goes out on Saturday the 5th of July you have a monopoly but wrestling video going out. Sequel episodes. So the ones going out publicly and then the sequel is going behind the paywall on Patreon. Next week... All In Week. We are doing live reactions to AEW All In. Me and Luke right here in the studio. You can watch it along with us. We haven't done...

AEW live reactions for ages. It's been a while. And the week after that. I believe, is the rise and fall of the Nexus. No, it's TLC the week after that. It's TLC the week after that. Yeah. And then it is the rise and fall of the Nexus. Yeah, we're going to be...

Six. Six. bragging rights yeah it's whatever it is whichever episode number it is we're reviewing bragging rights 2010 we reviewed uh we did i recorded our review of hell in the cell 2010 yesterday and i have got a real perverse craving now uh speaking

hell in the cell perverted to watch bragging rights 2010 because it sounds so now yeah if you don't know hell in the cell that's the one that will go out on the wrestle talk channel 2010 uh Paul Bearer shines a light in the Undertaker's face, which causes the Undertaker to lose. It's spooky nonsense up there with Finn Balor being beaten by God. After The Undertaker made all the lights go down and some lightning strike by doing his cum face and slit in the throat.

Yeah. Yeah. Paul Bearer went down to his local millets and put a flashlight within an urn and then Undertaker. Patreon.com forward slash WrestleTalk. Lowe's knows July 4th savings are worth celebrating. Right now, get up to 40% off select major appliances and get an additional 10% off two or more select major appliances. Plus, get three Scott's NatureScapes 1.5 cubic foot mulch bags for just $10. These deals are coming in hot.

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The 300th episode of AEW Dynamite. What a milestone. Yeah, they didn't really make a big deal of it. Superman superseded it. Oh, yeah, but... It is, isn't it? But they had to get all the Superman promos on. Yeah. Because, and this is a Wrestling Observer Radio point, I didn't think of it until they said it. Raw and SmackDown generally do really big numbers for those big...

multiples of a hundred, you know, the 500th episode, the thousandth episode. And the way they do that is they load it with nostalgia cameos. Yeah. I know you've got All In coming up and maybe you want to save a few surprises there. Sounds like Sting might make an appearance.

But Sting having an appearance here. Bryan Danielson showing up. Yeah. I mean, you're absolutely right, actually. I didn't consider that myself either. My thought was like, okay, well, the Young Bucks are resting on the show. Kenny's making his return on this show. Like, that's the kind of sort of like...

300 aspect of it because that is people who were there on the first show making sure that they're there on the 300th show. But I feel like it was a promotional opportunity missed. I think so. But maybe that is because Superman! Yeah. Which... I'm okay with. I just like, I love the transitions. I liked all the shots we saw. You loved the Kenny Omega bit. Oh, I love the fact.

that Kenny Omega was made to look like he won a competition to show up in a promotional skit for Superman. Two segments before he made his return from injury. Oh, yeah, I love that. I loved it for Superman. I thought Superman looks great. Yeah. MJF looks great. Lex Luthor looks great. Kenny Omega looked like a freaking dork. He was so dorky. Oh, this red cape. I feel like I can actually fly in it.

what you it felt like it was you're a champion it felt like it was kenny burying the segment though like kenny going in and knowing it's so dorky so like i'm just gonna lead into our dorky this is this is kenny omega working the ass bill yeah this is kenny omega thinking he's doing a Being the Elite sketch. You're just about to return to the angle before the Go Home episode for Omega Okada 5. Yeah. Anyway, I'm okay with it.

Because it's Superman. It's Superman. Yeah. And that's really all that matters. Superman looked really great. Kenny Omega said, oh, yeah, you're right. I can't remember the Superman. I never, I just keep calling him Superman. Yeah, Superman. I've done the same thing with Lois Lane. Yeah, but they are, and I think that's the strength of casting relative unknowns because they become those people to you, just like Christopher Reeve back in the day.

Yeah, Kenny's there. I can't believe we're spending so much time on this one-minute branded integration bit. Kenny's there. Oh, yeah, the red cape really makes me feel like a champion, a sort of superhero Superman. And the actor who plays Superman, who's enormous, towering over Kenny, just goes, yes, and this makes me feel like a champion. And he's got Kenny's title belt. He does feel like a champion.

He's proper championing. But the opening segment we'll talk about first. MJF and Lex Luthor as well. Max is like, look at this guy. He's a dork. He's a dork. And Lex says, hey, I didn't get a championship belt. You two are lame. And then the segment ends. Kenny didn't get to go, no, actually, I'm cool. I'm better than you, Max. Matt, everyone looked awesome apart from Kenny Omega. Yeah.

I'm not sure what the point of this segment was, other than to advertise that Superman is coming to cinemas next week. I don't think it worked, though. No. Well, I say it worked. Hangman Page opened the show instead, though, in a segment that I thought was both good in terms of the promo stuff.

but was a bit clunky in terms of its execution. So like Paige comes out and he's like, you know, I'm willing to ride through death to win this world championship back. I made a promise to win this title. You're going to have to kill me for this to pass me by. I want death so give me Texas death challenges marks to a Texas death match I popped I very rarely pop for stipulations being announced like I did back in the day and I'll see you

Hell in a cell. Which means you're going. To hell. Back in the day, for a cage match, when he said Texas death, I went, oh! Yeah. Because Hangman Page in a Texas death match. Well, you and I sort of speculated on this a few weeks back that we thought this would be the main event step for the match to make it a Texas death match. I think it's the real smart play for this match. And Moxley comes out and he says, you know what, Hangman?

You actually don't want to be the world champion because you're not ready for this pressure. You do not want the pressure of being the world champion. And you also don't want to step into a Texas death match with me. So no. And I quite like that about Moxley. He's like...

I'm saying no, not because I'm a coward, but because I don't want you to have to go through this. I think this is a bad idea for you as a person to do, which I think ties into the promo that he did with Paige a few weeks back when he was doing the same promo that Will was coming on him. but in a heelish manner. I really liked that. I do like it as well. I think Mox chipping away at Hangman's confidence is probably the best route of attack, kayfabe-wise. But maybe they'll reference it next week.

Hangman's beaten Mox in a Texas death match quite famously. Yeah, that was going to be the point I was going to make. So, like, maybe mention that as part of this. That wasn't referenced at all. No. But CM Punk did get a reference because Mox said... that he's not going to say he's the best wrestler in the world because that is basic bitch-ess word. Yeah, I mean...

He's not the first person to say that he's the best in the world. Chris Jericho used to have that as well. I'm sure it's unconnected. I'm sure so. If he'd have made a reference to Rocky III, then maybe it would have been a bit more on the nose. What's that? So then, you know, the Deathriders attack him. Claudio casting Noel. He makes his return and he lays out Hangman Page with the neutralizer. And then they leave. And Page gets on the microphone and he calls Claudio back to be like, no, no, no.

I'm still standing. Let's have a more of a fight. And Clam just like, yeah, I'll stand for a fight. And then the ops arrive. Well, actually, it's just Samoa Joe is there. And then Wheely Yuta steps up to jump over as well. And then Katsuro Shibata and Will Hobbs show up as well. And he's like, oh, okay.

We won't do this. But then Marina Shafir gets in behind. And this is where I think it gets a little bit clunky. Because then Marina Shafir slides in from behind, tries to attack Hangman Page with a briefcase. He stops her and then just has hold of her and says,

I've got something of yours now, Mark, so give me the match stip. He's got the briefcase. Yeah, and Mark's like, yeah, all right, you can have it then. And then Paige hits the Buckshot Lariat on Marina. And the crowd loved it when he hit the Buckshot Lariat on a woman. So that in of itself got the pop, which means segment work because the crowd enjoyed what they saw. I do think it was slightly clunky in its execution. What was clunky about it?

Just like I think the Claudio bit, the up, Marina sliding in. It just felt like there were too many moving parts. It always felt like you wanted to do this spot where he gives Marina the buckshot larry. Because also within this, you then have to have Marina stand in the middle of the ring.

awkwardly while Hangman Page does his rebuttal promo, selling so she can then be in the middle of the ring for him to hit the Buckshot Lariat on her. Again, it's like we want to do the Buckshot Lariat spot, so how do we work backwards from there? And it just felt like it was not the smoothest way of working backwards. Yeah, I see what you mean. I personally didn't mind it. I thought early on in the segment, Marina just like slaps Hangman a bunch and Hangman looks at her. I'm like, oh.

This feels like it's building to something, but I guess they're not going to have Hangman get his revenge on Marina. Makes sense. It's a man or woman violence spot. But then Hangman gets on the apron and... He's on the mic and he says to Mox, oh, by the way, just so you know, I'm prepared to do anything. Punch a woman. And it was great because it was set up. It's Maureen again in her receipt. AEW has an established thing where women can...

hit men and men can hit women. So yeah, I thought it was a really, I really enjoyed the segment.

I popped multiple times as well. Lois Lane did some comedy with Toni Storm about different names. And then Toni came out for what I thought was commentary, but it was actually just to sit at ringside and watch the match with Mercedes-Benz Monet and Mina Shirakawa for the TBS Championship. But that's it. She wasn't really... watching she wasn't even touching her meat she was just staring into space she was contemplating she was pensive and then commentary was like making the point of

Maybe she is a bit concerned about going into this match with Mercedes-Benz. She's had all this confidence, but all of a sudden that confidence is being washed away from her. Maybe she has bitten off more than she can chew when it comes to Mercedes-Benz. Yeah, I don't... It feels like a bit of a... gear shift out of nowhere Mercedes jumped Tony at the start of last week's episode I don't feel like how we go from that angle to now Tony is racked with

self-doubt. Yeah. But I thought this match was incredible. Yeah, it took a little while for them to find that. Not a little. Yeah, I mean, I'd say... first couple of minutes, a little bit of trying to find the same page of the book that they were reading from. But once they did, I thought they really clicked. And like, you know, we've seen them click before because Mercedes beat her for the Rev Pro Women's Championship. So like it was, and that match was great as well.

well so we i knew they could do it i was like i think they just need to find that same page and they did and then it was great like really really good this was a superb match yeah this this had lots of time Loads of great moves, like really good just smart reversal stuff as well. Mercedes' performance was excellent. I think it's Mina's best match I've ever seen as well. It's only in AEW, yeah.

And I love the sunset. I think it's better than the Rev Pro ones I watched. Yeah, that's fair. And we were there for one of the way she won the title. Which I don't think is an amazing match. It was a shocking finish is what that was. Yeah. I agree with you, actually. I thought that match was broadly fine, actually.

We had the sunset bomb into the corner, which is a lovely little tribute to Bayley, because that's the move that she does. I've just really, really enjoyed this. The figure four, Mene getting the fingertip on the ropes to break up the pin. Both reversing finishes, Mina hitting those wicked back fists. over and monet just gets the shoulder up and that the selling of monet just getting that shoulder up was really great because it was like i got it up but man there wasn't much on it

Yeah, but Monet ultimately rolled her up to retain. Attacks Mina afterwards. Small package, which I think the commentators should have hammered home a little bit more. It's Tony's finish. She beat her with Tony's finish. Tony goes to check on Mina. But Monet hits her with the belt. And then Tony's like, John Cena dead. John Cena selling dead. And Monet picks up the 300th episode birthday cake and licks it and then chucks wine at Luther. I thought the post-match angle...

was lacking. I wonder if that was supposed to be a reference to Toni Storm in WWE when she got the cake thrown on her by Charlotte. But they didn't do that because they're a company for grown-ups. And so they're not going to do a cake spot here on Dynamite. We're going to tease that we're going to do one and then not do it. Because she's a heel. Because she's a heel. Yeah. I mean, I feel like Michael Jordan at the end of Space Jam.

in terms of reaching. But that was the only read of why they did it in such a weird way. I thought the match was excellent. The tony pensiveness on the outside throughout and the post-match angle, I didn't feel. properly clicked i think that's fair i think for me if it kind of really does establish that tony is retaining it at all in um and then we then got a series of skits with matt and nick jackson that should have been bte levels of goods

And they were just fine. Yeah, because they were in their hometown, this episode of Dynamite. It was their home state of California. Home state. Because they're from a place that doesn't sound like it's real. Rancho Cucamonga. You can't just make things up.

They hopped in a limo that Matt Jackson had bought with the company card. They visit the elementary school. And the joke is that they're looking at all these places and they go, actually, it's a bit smaller, a bit now. Should we get back in the limo? I thought this would have been great if it was a series of skits spread throughout the episode and the last one has them being jumped by Swerve and Osprey. Yeah.

You can't do that because you're quite close to the pay-per-view now and you need the in-ring setup challenge thing. It's a shame. I think this could have been better done about three weeks ago. Agreed. What we had next was a fatal four way to crown the number two spot in the casino gauntlet between MJF, AR Fox, Anthony Bones and Brody King. Hot damn. I know that the trios match was probably better.

But this is my kind of flavor. I know, right? I loved this match. This is my favorite match of the week. This was so much fun and it was so great. And it's one of those wonderful things where you don't see MGF wrestle a lot on TV.

So when you do it, it does feel a little bit special that MJF is wrestling. And then you remember it's like, oh yeah, he's so much fun to watch as a wrestler as well. The way that he talks around the ring, his little heelish tactics. I thoroughly enjoyed this. And it's also one as well that you don't often do.

Certainly doing this for the Royal Rumbles. The right to become the number two entrants. Because it doesn't sound as good as being the number one entrant, even though the number two is just as important and just as good as being the number one. But I thought this was really...

Really great. I thought this match was awesome. Yeah, they should probably just say the starter. Yeah. And that's like starter. There's two starter matches. The starting two. Because otherwise you have to, you know, who does number two work for? Yeah. I... I swear we had a big conversation last week about how this was a qualifying match to the Casino Battle Royale. Well, I think we were slightly confused as to whether or not...

that was a match to get into it, or if it was for the number one spot for Mark Briscoe. And MJF said that he was in a match to qualify for it. And I guess that's where the confusion comes in. He probably was already going to be in the casino, but now he gets a much better spot in the casino gauntlet.

Because you were saying that you think he's going to have a singles match with Mystico. And I was like, no, I think Max is going to be in the gauntlet and Mystico is going to be an entry. Absolutely, yeah. But yeah, this was... MJF is on commentary for a bunch of it to stay out and the Hurt Syndicate protect him. Brodie King runs wild. Loads of comedy spots, but Max gets a check. He's smart. It's no DQ.

And he steals a win, really, with Assault of the Earth armbar on AR Fox. AR Fox, also incredible in the match. I guess on the Mystico thing, it probably makes more sense for that to be a CMLL match. rather than it be an AEW match because you did the first match in AEW, so then doing the rematch within CMLL makes more sense. Mark Briscoe then came out to just remind Max that he's the number one entrant and they'll have a...

talky talk next week. They're going to have a cat-to-cat chat. We'll talk about this and we'll talk about that. And then jet speed with job speed. I don't think they were. I'm pretty sure. I've heard Brian and Dave talk about this on Wrestling Observer Radio where they were like, the Hurts and you just keep beating these guys up. I'm like, yeah, that's the story.

is that they keep beating these guys up and they keep getting back up. They're going to win the tag titles at all in. Because the story is that they- Jet speed up. Jet speed. Well, the Hurt Syndicate keep beating them up and then they keep getting back up because they can't put them down.

You can beat them up as much as you want, but these guys just keep getting back up. Does that make you want to see the match? Makes me want to see them get some offense in on the Hurt Syndicate, yeah. What if Jet Speed don't win?

As long as they come close to winning and it's not just a squash match, then I think it's mission accomplished. I think, because I saw the clip of Brian Dave, I think they're being so short-sighted when talking about this. Because they have got it in their heads. This is just...

WWE guys coming in and not selling for AEW guys. And I think that is massively short-sighted. I don't know because when you look at the landscape of AEW's tag division, no one feels special near the tag belts because her syndicate. are just... They're not squashing guys, but they pretty much are. I strongly disagree. The tag scene hasn't felt special for years. It hasn't felt special before Hurt Syndicate showed up, because that's a fault of the booking of the tag division.

That is not the Hurt Syndicate's doing or the booking of the Hurt Syndicate. There's never felt like a special tag team for ages. Well, it's always Bucks or FTR, Lucha Bros. You go back to those three. Now you've got Swerve and Osprey. Maybe Bronson Reed and Brom Breaker can get involved as well as great tag teams. I don't know, man. Because obviously, yeah, that is what Dave and Brian say. But if you've not watched the episode...

There were four consecutive layout spots. Yeah. Jet Speed run in and Hertz Indicate beat them up. And it was like... A fair fight. It was just two on two. There were no weapons. Max didn't clock one from behind. That's the story. They're the big dominant dudes. And these are these smaller guys.

They're not trying their luck and they're getting beaten up by the bigger dudes, but they're not being put down by them. This happened four times. And they kept getting back up. And they kept getting back up. And every time they got back up, I was actually less...

Impressed. Maybe the second time they did it, I was like, okay, that's good. But then they did it a third time, you know, rule of three. And I thought, okay, well, that's, I don't think it's as good now, but, you know, I guess you'll end it there.

And then they did a fourth time? Yeah. Who does stuff four times? Yeah, they did it on Taskmaster literally last night. Watched the final. I did. I stayed up late too. Meanwhile, I've got... Better 10. We got Prosecco in because it was the... master final no i totally get what you mean and i'm not actually defending this segment as i'm not because i don't think that this is making jet speed look great but it is the story that they are telling and i so i think that it is not a great story

But it is a story that makes sense. They're not doing it to bury them or make them look like jobbers. This is just the story that they are telling. Whether it is good or not, it's a different conversation. But that is the story that they are telling. Let's see where we're at in a couple of weeks. We'll see it literally next Saturday.

Takeshita and the Young Bucks in a Heroes and Villains trios match because Superman's out next Friday. Eight days away. It's the first thing I said to my partner this morning. Do you know what today is? Friday? I went, Superman's out next week. And they took on Roderick Strong, Kyle O'Reilly and Bandido. And this was probably the best match of the show. Absolutely incredible. disgusting trio sequence on Bandido. Yeah. Where it was like, Takeshita had Bandido.

The Bucks did a Meltzer driver on him into a superkick German. Yeah, the wheelbarrow stuff. Awesome. Yeah, the crowd exploded on that. spot as well the crowd were just going nuts for everything these guys were doing and it's like you know because the Bucks have got that magic about them where they are just they're so good at wrestling they're so good at telling stories and what they're very good at is party matches and like this was

a party match. And crowds go mad for party matches. Because it's fun spots. And the Bucks are really, really good at doing that. Their timing is impeccable. And all the time is impeccable. And like... paragon came out their music like you want to talk about lads music hitting and me not caring that's paragon right there and so they came out like

These guys are good, isn't it? And I love Kyle O'Reilly and they have made me not want to see Kyle O'Reilly wrestle anymore. Then Kyle got in there and I was like, oh yeah, here's some PWG magic right here. Cool, Kyle. The Bucks hit the BT trigger on Kyle and Takeshita Brain Buster finished him off for the win. But then Ospreay and Swerve attacked them. I thought, oh, where were they earlier for Hangman? Yeah, good point. And Swerve wouldn't come out, but Ospreay.

Probably should have. So that was a bit weird. We had the odds. They clarify the weird admin from last week. Yeah. Quite a weird way. Weird, perhaps, but I thought this was because it answers the questions that we laid out last week, which is why would the Bucks accept the terms of this when they're the EVPs and they could just quite easily override these terms and get them changed anyway? And it is that...

Swerve and Ospreay win, it's not that they will become EVPs because they can't be trusted to be EVPs. you fans are the EVPs. And I'm like, you know, in fairness, one of them cut a promo on a baby and the other one's from Essex. Like I wouldn't trust them to run a bath, let alone run a professional wrestling company. So maybe this was the right call to make.

And they have now upped the ante. Because again, Matt and I was like, why would we go for this? Like, okay, if you guys beat us, we will not challenge for the AEW World Championship for a full year. big step and Swerve so big Swerve doesn't want to do it and he really was because it felt like Will just came up with that in the moment in kayfabe and Swerve was like I don't know whoa whoa we never agreed to this and then Will's like trust me

this is the way to get us to do it. And then Matt was like, hey, look, I'm happy to accept those terms, but you need to convince Swerve to accept those terms. And eventually Swerve agreed to do it. I'm stoked for that match. Very good steps. I think... I'm pretty sure Swerve and Ospreay are winning. Yeah. But the weight of that stip on the match will make the near falls even bigger. Yeah. I think it might steal the show.

yeah i think the main event because it'll probably have all the bells and whistles smoking mirrors around it and it's two really good wrestlers that i think that might do because that'll have all the drama but in terms of like action the bucks versus swerve and osprey it's like Why isn't this for the tax idols? Because then we get the Superman segment and then we get Swerve and Osprey versus the Beast Mortos and Drillistico.

And yeah, Swerve and Osprey are a fantastic tag team. Yeah. All their little sequence moves they do together. Also, I just love this match because the start of it was they could not get on the same page. Like, you know, they are a tag team. They're not the Young Bucks. They're not brothers. They've not been tagging for years. They are two singles guys. So they weren't working well as a tag team early on. And then...

The longer they went, the more they got in sync with each other. And that's when they started doing all of their cool stuff. Like doing the Swerve Stomp into Stormbreaker, doing a Styles Clash into the House Call. It's just great, man. Yeah, that was the finish there because the baby face is one. We haven't had any Swerve Osprey and Hangman interaction for about three weeks now. Yeah. Go home angle next week. Go home angle, I hope so. But it would have been nice to keep that spinning a bit more.

Because the last thing we saw was Swerve overhearing the Hangman conversation, I think. So next week, I would imagine we're going to have a segment with The Elite and with the Death Riders and a brawl Kenny Omega, Hangman Page.

and you know his Avengers lineup and Swerve Strickland is involved in that as well because he is going to be you know tagging with Will against the Young Bucks so is he going to get involved in that broad is he going to save Hangman for a moment I think that's where we're going to get

that moment between the two of them. I think Swerve watches that brawl from a distance. Yeah. And then it adds jeopardy for when Swerve turns up at the main event of All In. Yeah. Is he going to help Mox? Because does his hatred of Hangman? superseded. And the main event was Kota Ibushi versus Okada. Definitely Ibushi's best match in AEW. But yeah, it was a good main event. I made this joke in the news yesterday.

I appreciate it. I made that Essex joke in the news yesterday as well. We've been having three-star Okada for 2025. Certainly three-star Okada in AEW, but this was three and a quarter Okada. When he wants to pull it out, the best thing about three-star Okada is he can pull out the bag when he wants to, so he can get that little three and a quarter. And it was nice to see, because it really gives me hope for when we get to All In next week. Koda, yeah, was...

Felt a bit more charismatic, interacting with the crowd a bit faster. Took a horrible German just all on his shoulder. But yeah, ultimately, dropkick, rainmaker, single rainmaker for Akala to win. Solid match. Solid match. And storyline-wise, he's Kenny Omega's best friend, and the Callis family continue the beatdown afterwards.

But then Omega runs down. This is meant to be the big return, but I don't think it hit right because we had seen him wearing a stupid red cape. Sometimes brand integration doesn't actually benefit a wrestling show. Trent goes to jump in from behind, but Ibushi saves Kenny, and then they hug. Why didn't you just do this with Adam Cole in the Superman thing? Because he's also a champion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you've got the brachachos.

doing a segment backstage. He's not a champion. Have another thing. They could be wearing each other's capes. Ospreay has that big thing he comes out on. Yeah, he has a jacket, I guess. Jacket, cape? What is a cape if not a jacket without sleeves? This makes me feel like an aerial assassin. It's what Superman could have said. And actually... They both fly. Maybe. Yeah, but we probably should be making Will Austin look like a dork backstage with Superman.

We've got Evolution 2 next weekend as well. What? I know, yeah. We've got four shows next weekend that we've got to cover in next week's podcast because we've got Saturday Night's Main Event with the retirement of Bill Goldberg. We've got NXT Great American Bash. Gab. We've got...

evolution 2 and we've got all in and evolution 2 i feel like has suffered the most out of all of these because it's the show that was announced the last, was announced last, and it's the one that feels like it's had the least amount of promo put into it and has only really been done to try and hurt. all in which you know i think looking at ticket sales possibly might have done i think they're looking about

19,000. I think the expectation is about 30,000 is what they're hoping for. I incorrectly said on a previous episode they have done. They're looking to do. So it was a mistake on my part. So I think it's probably worked in a way for them.

But from what has transpired, all of the plans for Evolution 2 have been kind of thrown out the window with the Liv Morgan injury. But not only that, the talents that are involved in the show only found out the show was actually happening when WWE announced that they were doing it. Yeah, and now that the women's tag match is going to be Roxanne and Raquel versus a team from Raw, SmackDown and NXT, apparently the talent don't know who those teams are going to be either. No. It's one week away.

And it feels like this has been very hastily thrown together. It's just a bit of cancer programming. And it's kind of funny because the first evolution was only done as a PR exercise. because of the bad press they were getting about the soundy show, about the greatest Royal Rumble. So it's kind of funny how the first one was just a PR exercise, and this one is just a bit of counter-programming. But it kind of then means it's set up to fail. And Sean Ross Sapp had a...

quote about this on The Hump this week, where he said, a lot of women I was speaking to felt, I will say, set up. A lot of them felt like... A lot of them felt like set up that one, it was against All In Weekend across the street from a Beyonce concert during MLB All Style Weekend when a lot of hotels are going to be brought up in the area. They weren't necessarily thrilled with that, but it was hastily produced.

Yeah, and it was only officially announced about six weeks ago. So it was announced on the Saturday night's main event back in May 24th, I think it was. And up until that point... it had been reported that it was going to be on July 7th. Yeah, or July 5th or something like that. Yeah, so the Sunday or Saturday before. Yeah. I think, yeah, tomorrow. I think that was actually when it was, like, one of the rumoured dates was going to be tomorrow. So, really, when you look at...

what is the purpose of doing an all-women's pay-per-view for WWE? Well, you know, me and you would say, well, it's to give the women's wrestling a real focus and showcase them and... Kind of do a bit of karmic balancing from everything before now, where it's just a lot of the shows were just men's matches or men's matches with a token women's match in. Woke.

Here is a way to really showcase how great women's wrestling can be. But then you're like, well, if you want to do that and you're aware, and I think women's wrestling... is not still seen mainstream as a mainstream draw in the same way that sort of a Cody Rhodes versus Roman Reigns would be. Rhea Ripley's a huge star, yes, but... Could you headline a pay-per-view and sell tickets on Rhea Ripley versus Liv Morgan?

Probably not. That's why they put other main events there. It's because only one half of that would probably be the draw. And that's nothing against Liv Morgan. I think anyone put in that position because no one is treated to the same level of stardom that Rhea Ripley often is.

like the current women's world champion with that in mind you want to give the show every chance of success don't schedule it around a bunch of other shows that might fatigue the viewers don't put it up against another company's big show or on a crowded weekend you want to make it its own distinct thing with a heavy promotional strategy behind it that doesn't get diluted with some forward planning with yeah a much longer term plan and it sounds like

The date was changing up until six weeks ago. Which is why they weren't booking talent. You know, like Trish Stratus was contacted to be on this show. Very late in the day. So to kind of get her available for the show, it's not like they've been planning for months in advance that Trish is going to return to be on this show. They're saying, oh, the legend's now being called up. If you'd have had some actual planning around this, you'd have thought about that ahead of time.

secured some dates for people. Yeah. So I think it's not, you know, we're not being cynical here. This is really just done as a means to... take a bite out of AEW's cherry, which is a shame because this is a special thing and they should be positioning it more as a focal point for the company. And it kind of just sucks as well because, you know...

Fans who really loved Evolution and want to see more of that type of show have been waiting years for this show. The first one was 2018? Yeah, I think so. So we've been waiting for seven years for this show to make its return. And it is the fourth most important thing on a WWE weekend. We're all into the most important thing. And then it's probably Silent Night's main event, Great American Bash, and then Evolution 2.

In terms of like their priority, stopping all in and then promoting these three shows. So it sucks for them because it does feel like it's set up to fail. And then when it doesn't work, you're like, well, you know, hey, we tried. You kept asking for the show. We gave it to you, but fans didn't turn up for it. It's not our fault. It's just the way that it works. Yeah, it's booking Kofi Kingston as WWE champion.

When you don't really get behind him. Yeah. It's lip service. Lipstick service. Lipstick service. He's so brilliant. He wants air coins. Shall we get into last week's comments? Because it is kind of connected to something, I guess, that's scrapped. Our secret word for last week's show was come up with a name for the Nikki Bella and Rhea Ripley tag team that no one wants. Well, we were fantasy booking what you could do because you said that you think Raquel will win.

at a night of champions and that sets up the tag match and I said oh yeah you could do Rhea and Nikki Bella I suppose or worse to that effect even though I was like I think Rhea's going to win because she's Rhea Ripley So here's some special names for those from Joshua Rose. The Terra Ella twins. That is sweaty right there. We've got Matt Moorman saying, team, but you can't.

Team But You Can Look But You Can't Brutality. Well, what's great about this is because we also ask people to just get it into a sentence like it's already an established tag team name. So Matt said, I'm really looking forward to Team You Can't...

I'm really looking forward to a team you can look but you can't brutalities run. Rhea's raw power goodbye with Nikki's strategic history from the Traitors US could be a lethal combo. Just start the Traitors US with Nikki on it. I couldn't get past the second episode.

it's very different to our trailers well because we just finished watching uh traders new zealand the second series of that which was quite a good one and we started watching the american one and our first girl was like god it's american this is Americans just do TV differently. And my wife's like, it's just so extra. I also feel like we generally cast the shows to be majority nice, tolerable people. They're trying their best.

Oh, this is just a nice bunch. Whereas all the Americans are like, we're going to screw each other over. Well, it could just be that Americans are pricks. It could just be that. I don't want to cast a wide net across everyone, but American TV does teach me a lot of things.

And it sort of feels like that is the way it is by watching The Traitors. Happy. But it was quite fun to watch The Traitors US, which is all celebrities, and recognize one person on it. Because my wife was like, no idea. And I was like, I don't know who that is. She's like, who is that? I was like, that's WWE Hall of Famer Nikki Bella. Half of the cast are people who won Survivor. Yeah. Which we don't get over here. The Provoke Nurse says, fearless brutality. It's probably the...

Yeah. But I hate it. Let's see. It says, team belt. Beltality. Beltality. That is great. They're right here. Carrie needs to win against Sammy and Nikki and Rhea going to become Team Beltality. Fearless Mammies from Real Pokemon Joe. It's terrible, isn't it? And TheMitchat, I think, TheMitchat writes, I'm struggling with stomach problems, a less known form of diarrhea called bellarrea.

That's the name, of course. Very good. What's your last secret word? I feel like you've already... The Doctor of Thugonomics you want it to be. Yeah, well, I was trying to work out how you say it. Would it be Doctor of Thugonomics? Because I've misused the...

thought i've misused the o and the u so it'd be the the doctor of thugonomics i think just put like say some doctor of thugonomics thoughts but just spell it doctor yeah that's all we want misspell both words and Any recommendations to close the show?

I haven't got any recommendations. I actually did... Why do you never think about this in advance? So, well, I was trying to think of which one I wanted to do this week. And I also remembered I had one that I wanted to do as an anti-recommendation. It always catches you by surprise when I ask. No, it doesn't catch by surprise. I was trying to think of which one I want to do.

Can I give you my anti-recommendation first? That's not the segment, but sure. Crocs. I think we should pack it in. I just think we need to knock it off. What caused this Crocs hate? So yesterday, when I was getting my child ready for nursery, somebody could not find their trainers. And that somebody...

was her dad, who was me. And it meant that she had to go to nursery in what we call her garden shoes, which are a pair of Crocs that my mum bought for her. And she was very excited because a lot of the other kids at nursery wear Crocs. And it's because he can put little, I think they call it like... jibbies on it or something or giblets like badges yeah right so you can put those in the holes and when they pick when my wife picked her up from nursery yesterday the teacher said

Oh, actually, it's really good that she wears Crocs because when we do things like water play, then the shoes get wet. It doesn't matter because they're made of plastic. like dries off really quickly but when she's wearing her trainers you have to take them off you know put them elsewhere to kind of dry out and stuff it's actually quite beneficial so now we're gonna have to go out and buy a pair of crux for them and i just think they're naff

I just think they look ugly. I think they are terrible. What happened to us as a society that Crocs became an acceptable bit of footwear to wear outside of the house? And do you know what worries me the most about it? I think if I wore a pair, they would change my life. I think if I wore a pair, I'd be like, oh my God, these are giving me the support that I've been craving from trainers for years now. Yeah, everyone says they're so comfy, but I can't risk it. That's it. I can't put one on.

because what if I like it? Because it is like admitting you've given up. But, you know, I think the generation below us have ironically embraced it and now it is quite a... Well, I don't know so much now, but at least five years ago, it was a trendy thing to wear. Yeah, so I think it's ironic. I think they just genuinely like wearing Crocs, which I really do feel like as we...

I think the pandemic has made us give up on a lot of things. And one of those is self-worth. And that is why we are now wearing Crocs in public. I proposed the other day... Only half-jokingly that we have formal Thursdays in the office. As a flip. of Dress Down Casual Fridays. Well, we all just wear suits. With top hand tails. But my actual recommendation is Talking Simpsons recently celebrated their 10th anniversary of their 10th year of doing the Talking Simpsons podcast.

And they did a special episode. It's like three hours long. And it's talking about the history of the show and the history of them as podcasters. So I think if you're a fan of Talking Simpsons, it's a really lovely celebration. The reason why I wanted to recommend it is... I think the question I get asked the most by people outside of, you know, what do you think of this angle is how do I get into podcasting? How do I start a podcast?

What should I do if I want to start doing a YouTube channel or this and the other? I think actually they've got a really good discussion on there. They kind of took me back to our early days of podcasting together and that grind that you go through, that sort of love of the game that you do it. for to hopefully one day make it worth, you know, make it your full-time gig. And there's some really good chats on there. And it made me very nostalgic for when...

I used to travel for hours on end to record a one-hour podcast with you. I would travel for like four hours just to record a one-hour podcast with you that we made no money off of and like, I don't know, 20 people listened to. but we did it because we were getting our reps and we did it because we loved doing it and it was like and because of doing that has led us to this point here so yeah it was you know because i've been making podcasts since 2008 so it was kind of nice to

be quite nostalgic for that so i think it's actually a very good tool if you are curious about podcasting and you know what people what lengths people will go to to make it work and it's a you know it's a fun podcast plus it's a great show is that on their patreon or is that available publicly it's available publicly

I heard on their patrons. I'm a patron back. So I heard it last week, but it's now available publicly. I'll give an anti-recommendation. Okay. Just in the spirit of your one. Yeah. I went to watch the Evita. performance on the balcony last friday and it was very good and i was like i've also heard this was all from the rest of the entertainment like they recommended that and i'd also spoken recently about i think they're called labubu dolls

Yes. The booby dolls? Le booboo, yes. So I thought, I looked on Google Maps, there is a Pop Mart, which is the shop that sells them all down the road. Let's go and look at it to see what all the fuss is about. Grow up. I've never actually seen one. What do they look like? You know, like pop vinyl figures, which are a thing I also didn't understand, but people still get them. for me, including you. I bought you one. You got me a Captain Marvel cat one one year. Yeah. Which I actually quite like.

It's a cat more than anything else. I got you one because it was a cat. And that was all. You say I bought you one. That was like seven years ago. Exactly. But we'd spoken about how I don't get these things. You bought me one. Yeah, but I thought you liked them. But the, yeah, it's like the pop vinyl stuff. I never got the Funko figures.

I never understood, but okay, you can collect them. And then I guess the Boo Boo stuff and the Pop Mart brands in general are all about that blind box stuff. It's the gamification of buying things. But I just thought, well... I'll walk in there and maybe I'll get tempted by one. And I went in there and I was really stunned by the low quality like plastic and design of them. And just how like not.

not aesthetically pleasing now at all. They even had like a DC collaboration. I was like, I want to touch these with a barge pole. They look like things I'd find at a boot fair. The sort of thing you win, like you go to a little school fair and stuff. I'm actually going to, for the first time ever, I'm going to see what they look like. I've instantly spelt it wrong, and thankfully Google has corrected me.

Oh no. So that's just one range. They're the most popular range. I sort of like, yeah, like, you know what? It's so hideous and tacky. I totally get why people have gone for this. Look, we've lived through all these fads in five years. At the end of the year...

People go, oh, do you remember the Lububu dolls? It'll be an answer on a pub quiz. It'll be Cabbage Patch dolls. It's Funko figures. It's trolls. Funko figures, at least I'd argue, stood the test of time. And when the world does come to... an end. They will be used as currency. But yeah, I can't wait for the film they'll make in three years when the bubble has passed. Way too late. And it will definitely be done by Sony Animation.

My actual recommendation, though, is Brandon Thurston's article. Look at my phone stuff. The punk one that he wrote. Have you read it? I've not read it, no. We'll link to it in the podcast description. Just let me read a few. It's on post-wrestling. and it's titled From Defiance to Dignity, CM Punk's Redemptive Turn Towards Nihilism. And it's unfortunately...

The sign of the times is Brandon does have to write at the bottom, in case any of it's spelled out. This article is satire. Yeah, it's like the homestead. Oh, by the way, I was being sarcastic. Yeah, so I don't think you need that bit, but it is a tongue-in-cheek article. Well, right back, Mike. It's a tongue-in-cheek article about what CM Punk did by endorsing...

the Saudi Arabian regime and how that might contradict a lot of things that he's gone for. And it has some absolutely crucifying paragraphs. Let me read this one. They say there's a section of Al-Hahir prison supposedly called the Tutu Wing, after Al-Sheikh's nickname, where citizens who have tweeted mean things about Tutu are reportedly, but understandably if true, jailed and beaten.

Punk understands this. His contrition, which was offered freely and authentically in the spirit of punk rock, was genuine. But it was also wise. It's... It's a really well-written article. Well, sort of opinion piece. Punk's high-profile act of grace gives us a comforting reminder that nothing is really worth believing in. With the possible exceptions of making a lot of money and being obedient to those in power.

especially if they're willing to abuse it. Very good. It's an excellent read. And it will take like... two minutes so yeah the link in the video description below for that but also click patreon.com forward slash WrestleTalk because we'll have that bonus episode of Monopoly but wrestling tomorrow and loads of stuff this month like we've said like the AEW

All in live reactions next Saturday. TLC, the Saturday after that. And the Saturday after that, Nexus. A rise and fall bonus episode there. Now, I've been Oli Davis. It's been Luca and DAD. Chat by chat. Check engine, ABS, or maintenance light on. Take the guesswork out of your warning lights with O'Reilly Veriscan. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE certified master technicians.

And if you need help, we could recommend a shop for you. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today. O, O, O, O'Reilly Auto Parts. That is it, Gamble Money. Expunge your... Okay, what is... Finding the perfect podcast audience for your brand can feel overwhelming. But with ACAST smart recommendations, finding the right podcast to sponsor takes seconds. Powered by AI, it curates the ideal podcast list based on your target audience. From millennial men into fitness or tech.

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