Missing People, Missing Borders

an apple? Yeah, exactly. Let's let the apples have something. Come on, they acrifice so much for us. Anyway, what are we talking about this week? Who are sons? Who are we? What are people? That? My dad used to say that I'd come home, I'd come downstairs in the morning and he'd go, who are you and who are your people? I'd say, I'm Katie and you are my people? Anyway, my name is Katie and you are my people. That's good. That's cute, right, that's cute. Um, we got let's talk

about today. I wanted to start with a little update, update update update um from last week. Yeah, Robert you you you were not here with us last week, you were, I was. I was in the South of Spain losing your luggage. I did lose my luggage. Yeah, but we had a really great interview discussing UM the potential upcoming at the strike, which would be the first in wide strike in the entertainment industry that they'd authorized and UM. As of last week, we weren't sure what was going

to happen. But as of last night, it looks like UHTY is recommending UM strike authorization vote. So that is happening as of right now, or looks like it might be happening very soon. Which TV show? Does that mean? We're losing just about all of them, I even even even Frasier, especially Frasier, Yeah, the old I'm positive that Frasier's contract is long expired. Okay, so that's good. At least no new Frasier and no recreation of old will

not impact the airing of reruns UM. But this is a big deal, and it is a cool thing, and it is important, important, important. I know a lot of our listeners are not in the entertainment industry per se, and for you, good for you, And and it's very like I said last week, it's very easy to look at, you know, entertainment industry in Hollywood in general, and be like these guys, these glitzy, glamorous guys and dolls up

there on the big screen. The reality is very very very long, grueling hours, unsafe conditions, especially during COVID when the entertainment industry was rushed back in and having shot myself during this time, it is really difficult. And yeah, and literally would not be possible to make anything without everybody on the team here, you know, And and they have been misused for a long time, and this is

incredibly important. Um. So it Yeah, it's going to affect some things, you know, and and never mind or it won't. But you know, I want to do right or well as it should, as it should, you know. UM. I just want to quickly point out something that has been discussed online, but god damn it, I'm saying it here too. UM. Pretty unfortunate that literally nobody stood up there on stage at the Emmy's on Sunday and mentioned Curious Strike. And

they do know about it. They should know about it, you know, extremely interesting, extremely interesting, extremely come on, they should did. I'm sorry you were still busy unpacking last week's gala to unpack the Emmy fashion but I am surrounded by people. This is obviously important to me. I work, We all work in l A. But I guess Robert, you don't anymore. This is an industry that I've been a part of for a long time, and um, something that I've been saying and I'm for a long time

is that these working conditions have to change. And I am proud of everybody standing strong um with this. So that's my update from last week. I can't see, but it's raised my Yeah, well, good, good on you. I will generally say you in an Italian accent. Spicy meat Other things to talk about this week, spicy meatballs. Okay, now we're going to pivot to something pretty dark, and that would be Gabby Potito and this whole case that we have watched unfold over the past week and a half.

And I have several different things to say. I want to talk about what happened. The first thing I want to talk about is how upsetting it is that again, a beautiful, thin, blonde, white woman makes front page news and captures the heart of the world when she goes missing, When women of color go missing every day in that area. There's some something like missing Indigenous women from the last nine years that nobody has any idea what their names are,

and nobody pays attention, and it's a huge problem. Um, And this isn't news to anybody. And yet every time somebody that, you know, I mean, it's just racist, it's racist. Music coverage is also I mean, yes, you can point to the fact that she was a blogger. Yes there is that social media aspect, but it goes above beyond that. My heart is broken for Gabby Petito and her family, and yes, I do not I think that all resources should should be invested into finding you know, missing women

or I think people in general. The discrepancy between how her case has been treated and how a lot of Indigenous women disappearing is treated isn't on her and doesn't mean like people shouldn't care about the fact that she was murdered. That's not anyone is saying when they point this out. But we should also keep in mind that like Indigenous women are murdered and sexually assaulted, it rates about ten times as high as as the average women

and disappear at a disproportionate right. We actually don't really have a great understanding of like how common it is. Last year alone, nearly fifty Native American women were reported missing. Um, it's it's a it's it's a real issue, and and it's it's it is important again, Like nuance is important because we're not saying like fuck Cabby Petito, like we're we're saying, like, well, now we're talking about a missing woman.

And it's probably worth pointing out again to everybody that Indigenous women frequently go missing and nobody gives a ship and maybe we we often. I'm we're working on bringing someone on in the near future to talk cifically about this because it deserves its own intense focus and conversation to unpack. I'm gonna read this. This is a you know, different versions of this sentiment have been floating around online,

but this is one from Twitter. Gabby Petito's life might have had an incredibly different ending if the police officers who pulled them over on August twelve we're at all familiar with what domestic violence actually looks like. Um, that hits me because it's true when I look at that video. I'm not sure if any of you guys have have checked out the body cam footage from when they pulled. You know, we're interceding and talking to Gabby and and

the fiancee. Gabby is incredibly distraught and clearly been gas lit, like manipulated into thinking that she was a problem. She's not sure what happened, but what I saw was a woman who was hysterical and her boyfriend had kicked her out of the van because she could and she needed to get in and get her work done. And they treat you know, and people point to say, how could the officer have known? How could they treated her very kindly? And they were kind, but they were missing something very

obvious that within ten seconds I saw. And maybe that's because I know personally what that feels like. Maybe more women are able to respond to that in a visceral way and and immediately see the signs. But the fact that this officer was not trained and did not understand what they were encountering felt very palpable. Also, people point to the fact, you know, it was framed like she

was the aggressor. And turns out there were multiple nine one phone calls, one saying that he had hit her regardless, um, you know, in the in the video, he's holding up his hands and the officer as saying like, oh, did she do those claw marks on you? And that is a tell tale sign. I mean, rapists and abusers frequently have more from women on their body from self defense.

So those are two things that an officer could have looked at and pointed at and said like, oh, this situation is not what it may seem on the surface. All of that to say is that this is incredibly common. I mean, if you look at the domestic abuse rates during the pandemic, um, I think they've rose by like eight point one percent just during lockdowns. Three women are murdered every day in the United States from domestic abuse, and cops over and over and over again do not

properly respond to domestic abuse situations. And again speaking circling back around too, all of the missing women of color that never go reported, this is all all a part of it. Also a lot of cops, uh yeah, of cops or of police and it have domestic abuse is the actual statistics. But yeah, yeah, it's very very, very disturbing, and yeah, I couldn't watch I couldn't watch more than a minute of or two of that. And then of course we could talk about how they let him get away.

I mean I was going to talk about how the real villain here is vans. Okay, wait, where are we still doing the van life? Many minivans or vans, just van life in general. It's not two thou twelve. Come on, people, are you suggesting a replacement for vans or suggesting just not any aspect of it? Yeah? Just get no more van life, get rid of vans, get rid of Instagram. I'm okay with van life. I'm pretty um over abusive shitty men. Well, yeah, I'll keep the van, get rid

of the man. I mean, I guess the non joking part of it is that I think you can't disentangle this from like influencier culture. Like it seems like we're probably gonna find doubt that this guy was using his relationship and the way that it was perceived in order to make money, and uh, that is a pretty inherently

abusive situation. Like one of the problems with you know, speaking of someone who's lived on the road for a long time, one of the things you have to be really careful about is that, like you're kind of leaving your support networks behind, which is a great situation for an abuser to be in with a partner because she's you're in the desert or where it's isolating. Yeah, that's part of the process here. Yeah, um absolutely, yeah, I mean you're you're correct. There's a lot to be um

discovered still about the story. I'm not going to like discuss whatever random facts that aren't facts yet that have been thrown around about what he may or may not have done and what other murders he may or may not have been involved when, because that's all theory at this point, and I don't know. I I just I'm I've been feeling really dark about this all week. It's been awful, and like you said, it's just one of the many, many, many stories we don't hear about. Yeah.

I again, before we move on, I'll just say that I think it's it's desperately important that everybody starts to acknowledge and recognize what abuse looks like and how it can manifest and uh to take it seriously. I don't know what would have helped in this specific case, Like obviously theoretically police who gave a ship could have helped, but I don't think that's particularly likely in the policing system. Like, I don't think there's any amount of training that would

have made this officer give a ship. No, I agree, I I mean I think that I mean in general, Sorry, this is personal for me in many ways, I have not had the same experience that Gabby did. But um, over the past few months talking to a lot of women, I know that they a vast majority of women have incredibly disturbing stories to tell about how they have been

treated and how people have believed them. So when I talk about believing people and looking for signs, I mean like really proactively changing how we moved the world and um, and interact with people, uh, and have these conversations and have an awareness of just how common it is and what it looks like. I'm not saying that that would have changed this situation, but I think that it might change yours individually. Does that make sense anyway? Anyway? Should

we take an ad break and come back with something new? No? OK, for three minutes and break? Sorry? Was that too intense what I just said? No? No, no, no, not at all. It's the story. What's happened? I feel very like, I don't know, it's really fucked me up this week. Yeah, I mean not really, but I just I'm like, yeah, the the the amount of places you've seen coverage for this story is like so you can't get away from everywhere.

I think. I think there's like a huge aspect of like TikTok and this too, that like where it spread all over TikTok in't before we started recording a check. It's literally all the top podcasts on the charts. We're talking about it too. Yeah, So it's just that's who needs to be doing this. I mean, that's what we're doing too, I guess, yeah, but I mean it's definitely going to be in our time podcasters. But guess what

I mean. It's just it's just like spread like like wildfire, and it's like, you know, in one way that's good. In another way, like keep that same energy. That's just the thing for me. I'm like, I'm like, I'm glad that you know, Like, I don't think you really got in. You didn't mention this at all, Katie, but I know you and I have talked about it. But it's like the amount of coverage led to those people fucking knowing what that van looked like and then they were able

to find her. Right now, I mean the fact that everybody was paying attention to It's not that you shouldn't pay attention, it's that we Yeah, it's for other people. It's like if that same if that same energy was it out there for citizen journalists, have you know, made some amount of difference in cold cases and and and whatnot. I mean we talked to Billy Jensen at one time, and he's big on that. So like, there truly is incredible work being done by people using social media open

source journalism. Yeah, m hmm, And I guess we're back from break now. Oh yeah, do you want to include anything or not? Yeah, let's include that, and let's go to break now everything. Yeah, we're at the border, moving along from a sad story to a sad story. People are right when they're like, if this was happening during the Trump administration, there would be liberals crowd at airports to protest. You know, they're what, we've had no changes

from our immigration. Yeah, it's or whatever it is. I wanna I think we should start by kind of clarifying something, which is that like this is getting like framed by a lot of the like right wing media. Is that like they're swarming over the border. They're they're like crossing into the US illegally. They're not the Del Rio Bridge. The area in which they're setting up their camp is

in US territory. It's this kind of like weird geographical area where they have not like crossed the border formally, but they're in U. S territory and they have to be because you can't file for asylum unless you're you know, in the US territory, So you gotta go to where you have to be there. Yeah, so they have to be. They have to be where they are if they're not doing anything improper. They're just fleeing a nightmares situation in a country that, like listen to our two part are

on Haiti. They don't have a lot of options and they're doing the thing that they're supposed to be doing legally. Yeah. I mean that's always been the case, the frustrating case where it's like like you know, they're doing the things they're allowed to do. Yeah, they're literally obeying the law that you guys set up. That is stupid, but they're

doing it. They're obeying it um and it's very bizarre to see, like you see people like on the left, like you know, obviously like all these deportations and like the images we're seeing, um, and how it's terrible we shouldn't be doing that. And then seeing people on the right like, uh, look at the crisis, and it's like, don't isn't this what you want? You want? Like all these people to be deported, Like this is what you want?

What is it? You're you're literally getting the thing. The amount of people who are trying to seek asylum is what you're mad at? Or the like the fact that we're not letting it's just it's very maddening to see. They just want to be mad. Yeah. And the images that we're seeing from this right now of people on horseback with whips crralling katie, Katie, Katie, Yeah, whips And a quote from the article Okay, it's very important, it's

very accurate. Not inaccurately call them whips. Okay, Um, all right, let's say so. This is from the Yahoo News coverage. After one of the officers invests, unfurled a chord resembling a lariat like whip and steered his horse to block the immigrants. One tumble back into the water, he got up and tried again, but the officers swung the cord again near his face, so they're not hipping them. They're swinging chords, not whips, just cord that resemble whips near

their faces. It's fine, it's fine, fine, I change my position. I just love as a journalist like you, you get into the field of journalism to speak truth to power and and comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. And then you're like, well, we got to make sure we're not unfairly calling this chord a whip that he's hitting homeless refugee with go to border. Was that a whip or was it a whiplike chord? But also, even even if you want to be like the most accurate, it's

not literally a whip. They didn't buy whips and they didn't go to the whip store. You can say that they used chords to whip people. Yeah, you use chords in a whip like manner. They use chords, which are a sensive. They hipped some chords around. Yeah, you can whip people with I whipped a man with a belt fish once. You can whip people with a variety of tools. That's why you can whip people with a branch with

a stick. Look, as the song said, when a problem comes along, you must oh wait, no, no, no, you must succord it. You must chord like it just say, like a chord using a whip like manner, a chord that might as well have been a whip like you can still be accurate and not. It's very frustrating like that kind of splitting hairs is just like funk yourself. That's not journal And it seems it seems small, but it's really important be because yeah, it's all about what

picture you're painting for people. And yeah, I'm sure that guy went home being like, oh the hoy paloy online all freaking out about whips. I found the truth. It was a whiplike chord did my job today being used to well, I guess chord can't be the verb. What's the what's a good verb to describe you using a chord in that way? And you know, I've seen this point being made that I agree. You know, we we

made sure too. Well, I don't know if we made sure, but there was all of this hullabaloo about making room for Afghan citizens that were fleeing their home country, and understandably as we should we bear a lot of responsibility for their situation. We also bear a lot of responsibility for what's going on in Haiti, not directly per se, but directly repeatedly. As directly I was like, well, I mean we didn't like fail at a war for the last twin years, we failed at a lot of other

things that are directly. We've cumulatively militarily occupied Haiti for at least as long as we were in Afghanistan and actively oppressed their own autonomy and autonomy and infrastructure. Ye. Yeah, so yes, we are as responsible. We've been fucking with Haiti for a long time. It is truly abominable, and it is frustrating to look at people that are are very ready to cry foul at Donald Trump. But when it's Joe Biden, what is he supposed to do? Is

hands are tied? What he supposed to do? It's the Senate, Parliamentary and ship where it's like, this is all such a horrible problem when Trump was in office, but like Biden, what you expect him to do something about Ice? It's a rogue agency. Will and take their money, right, don't don't have ice anymore? And be like well, motherfucker's you're not going to obey the law. Fuck you send in somebody to beat them up. You've got a lot of people who could beat up Ice. You're the you're the president.

Suck them up and suck them up. Joe, Yeah, I don't. I don't give a shit about your excuses. You're the goddamn president. It's not who we are. I mean, sure there are are organization and sending the marine bomb Ice with with Harrier jets. Also retired the Harrier jet because it would be pretty rad to watz I saw. I saw somebody tweet like, uh, fire everybody and hire more

different people to work here. It's like, wait, so the problem is with ICE as the people working there one of the problems that's not It is deeper than that. I would say if if if Biden were to fire them all and start the process of hiring new ICE people, I would be like, well, that's probably gonna make it better, and maybe they'll use like rope like whips instead of

cord like whips. So the majority I mentioned this is a moment ago, but from what I understand, most of these um deportations are happening under the CDC's Title forty two, which was implemented in March. Donald Trump and everybody was very piste off about it. But you know, Title forty two was supposed to, you know, under the excuse of we want to limit coronavirus spread, etcetera. You know, it's

it's supposed to curb the flow of it. But he's been promising for months to roll back Title forty two, and they keep saying they're about to, and now he's just using it to deport these people. This is just like the thing that also vaccinate them. Come here, give people vaccinations if they want them. There's a picture of the ice age and one of them with the whips.

He's got like his fucking he's got chaps on, and he's got a play carrier like body armor, and he's got a fucking cowboy hat, and it's it's the ultimate expression of like what baby Larper's they are. None of that is like, I guess the chaps. You could argue where necessary because he is riding a horse, but like

he just wanted to look cool. If you are wearing a plate carrier but not a helmet, you're full of ship, you're not in danger, and you just want to look cool, because if you're actually afraid of getting shot, you don't wear a fucking cowboy hat on your head. Also, if you're actually care about your own safety while riding a horse, you would you would wear a helmet as opposed to a cowboy hat, because if you get bucked off that horse, do you know what protection to cowboy hat offers? None?

He just he just and you can see in the smile on his fucking face like this is his his fucking dream ever since he was a kid. And I just wish Geronimo would come back and deal with this motherfucker. Also, it's a ship cowboy hat, like fuck you. Like everything about these chuckle fox it's frustrating. Um, I don't know where do we They're all right chaps that I'll give them credit on the chaps. As a chap connoisseur, I've seen worse, really really nailed the chaps. I'll take a

little brief intermission. I want to talk about this article from the Washington Examiner that's terrible. Patient migrants revolt in custody and seize control of privately contracted bus. And now, first of all, hell, yeah, that sounds like quite a story and maybe you know, one hopes they got away, right, maybe maybe they I don't think it a free bus,

free bus. And it's just this, you know, it's obviously framed to be like you gotta you're scared that migrants taking the bus now they're here, um, and it's very fearmongering. The last sentence of it reads, the two people who confirmed the incident said law enforcement search for the escapees and recaptured them. The primary source for this article was from yesterday, and they had been recaptured by yesterday evening.

And it's just like very frustrating to see this kind of thing, just like because obviously we're gonna share it around, like, oh look what happened either for an afternoon. Yeah, and like just like if if you're if your primary source is an article from yesterday saying like that they were recaptured almost immediately, and you say that in the article, maybe don't what's the point and don't lead with without that information. The point of the article obviously is to

like scare people exactly and anger people and and scare them. Uh. And it was just very frustrating to see, uh a person just be like look at this very this wow breaking news like no, this is from yesterday, and you you you didn't explain the a very relevant part of it. Um and it's it's like not important in the grand scheme of things, but I think it speaks to It speaks to a lot of like how you gotta get those fucking clicks? You know, yeah, you gotta get this.

Nothing matters more than that clicks. Yeah. Um, so I guess don't click on that article is my point. You don't click on the article. Don't have listened to this episode? Shit, purge purge this from your brain, but not the part to tell you not to click on that article perfectly said, remember that, don't read m cool never anything. Well, shit, what else are we doing? Do you guys want to take an ad break? Now? It's you know who won't do it for the clicks? Do it for the clicks,

like do it for the boys? Just do it? Okay? Click? Yes? All right. When we come back, Katie and I will sing the best hits of the eighties and early nineties together, everything simply the best. So I have something, Yeah, how do you are you guys familiar with the Herman Kane Awards? Subredit no is it covid yeah, well, yes, of course. Yes. It's like people who said covid is not a thing

and then tied of covid. Yeah, it's it's specifically, every post is just sort of celebrating somebody who had yelled about how covid isn't real or the vaccine isn't real and then died. It's just that, and it's it's exploded

in popularity. There's a there's a Slate article about it today that's kind of grappling with this, and it points out, quote, subscriptions to the Herman Kane Awards subredit are increasing logarithmically from two thousand subscribers Unjuly four to five thousand at the beginning of August to more than a hundred thousand on September one, to two hundred forty three thousand on Friday, to two hundred seventy six thousand today. Um. That's outrage.

That's a massive that is an enormous rate of increase. Um uh. And that is I just kind of want to talk like, how do you how do you feel about because I've been full disclosure, I've been dipping in for like the last couple of weeks, so it is to be clear, people making fun of people that have died of COVID. It is making fun of people who denied the reality of COVID or the efficacy of the vaccine. And then it's not just like stan the appeal, but

it's a fucking tragedy. And it's tragic to me that they so many of I mean, certainly there is certainly tragic, ye s ghoulish people that um actively you know, spread disinformation, that got and knew what they were doing and got COVID and died. So many, so many, so many people have just been swept up in this. It's really hard political bide is m and it I don't like us losing our humanity and losing side of the fact that

this is a tragedy. Our good friend, a good friend of Cody's in mind, a cousin anti vax are passed away this past week and of COVID and the whole family's wrecked. And the whole rest of the family went and got vaccinated and and so what happened, Yeah, they all did. The people were resistant at least, So to me it's like coming at like I I just I

know that it's fun too. And there's and like and it's hard to wear angry and frustrated and these people are keeping us from getting a handle on the pandemic. It says something that the subredit is called like what Herman Kine or Liker award because it's like a you know, uh, public figure with a big platform and like spreading misinformation

uh in a possibly the way. And I think, I don't know, it's important to sort of like recognize that, like there are victims of misinformation who h it would be great if fate didn't and if there you know, political ideology didn't lean towards these other people. But like, I don't know, I think there's a difference between like if Tucker Carlson died of COVID, I'd be like, ha ha,

that would be fun. That would be amazingly. Yes, absolutely, like random people who have been like worked up over decades uh to like trust these fucking liars, yeah, and these insidious ghouls uh to not do the thing that they should be doing. I don't know. It's it's very you're not wrong in that Cody. At the same time, because again I'm try to be honest on this show. I'm not a very good person and I've never pretended to be. I have dipped in, especially on days when

I've gotten angriest. You know, I can. I can remember my first My first warning sign of how truly bad the pandemic was going to be was showing up at the first Team mask Rawley in Oregon and seeing like a crowd of armed people spitting on nurses, h and doctors with signs that we're just saying please, we don't want you to get sick um and calling them diaper mouth. And there's an extent to which I won't defend morally.

I will defend morally making fun of Herman Kane because motherfucker had plenty of chances to not do what he did. There's like tears of people. I think, yes, yes, yes, And and a lot of the people on the Herman Caine Awards, suret are just like normal people who got conned and and died as a result of it, and

that is sad. At the same time, their actions and sort of the mass actions of this anti vaccine movement have had a disastrous I have so many friends in the life, events, business and stuff who are like a very close friend of mine, like a partner of mine. Is like it has been finally getting back to like doing life events because there's ways to do the quasi safely now, and was just overwhelmed with anxiety before getting back to before getting on the plane. Point and and

she's vaxed. Everyone's vax They're doing everything they can to be safe, and I think, like the example of Lalla Baloosa shows like it can be done relatively safely, but like the sheer level of fear that she had trying to get back to her life, and the fact that she lost a year of income um and a lot of people did, And it's because of this bullshit. And I guess I can't well, I can't morally defend laughing at people who are just got conned. I also can't

condemn people who feel like they need that schadenfreude. Finally, I think, I think you've made so many great points that I agree with. Of course it's all true, and I understand that desire, in that inclination and that anger. UM. I I'm disturbed though, by seeing um dehumanization of each other.

And this piggybacks off a conversation we had last week on even More News with Natalie Sure about the conversations surrounding unvaccinated COVID patients and hospitals and insurance because many, many, many liberals are out here saying, well, we're angry with them,

they're continuing this, they're the problem, their cope. We shouldn't cover their stuff and their insurance shouldn't cover their stays, or they shouldn't be allowed to take up space in the hospitals, you know, coming at it from this that side point, which to me sets off all of my alarm bells because you're you're taking this anger and you're going to a place that's an antithetical to what we all talk about and believe in. And so that's what I cautioned against when we go into these spaces and

and and and and are grappling with these conversations. Um is, how do we honor our anger and frustration while also maintaining our humanity because and maybe you don't want to, And I get it, you know, I get it. It's kind of like deciding to forgive or X because it's better for you emotionally, you know what I mean? Yeah,

I don't know, I don't know. Did you guys see that Breitbart article where they were talking about how we want we want to trick people into taking the lifesaving vaccine so that they don't take the lifesaving vaccine and then if I can die. Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, it's like all of it. It's just a fucking mess. And like obviously also like a lot of people who are like,

let's say vaccine. There are people who are vaccine hesitant for various reasons, and a lot of them are uh anti vax because of their political ideology and how it aligns with the sort of trump Ist way of looking at things, which is cruel, which is like like a form of American fascism. And so I also understand people who are like, well fuck those people, Um, but it

is really hard to paint everybody with one brush. And straight up, if you think that, uh, we're tricking you into thinking the vacs seen as good so that you don't take it to die, take it, and then you like you'll like I'll be so so embarrassed if you take this and I can finally go back to an indoor Please don't take this. Just unbelievably owned, like it's weird, like worped reverse psychology, like like the should try it should we make some commercials. It's so weird. Guys, Please

don't get vaccinated. Yeah, don't, please don't do it. We don't want you to get vaccinated. It's just a complicated mess. And I wouldn't you know, it's just again, it all comes down to like Tucker Carlson has been vaccinated. There's no question, one of the first people to get vaccinated.

And he's doing and he's killing people, that's what he's what's going on right now, And they are you know, and I don't know um and I don't know everybody's individual story, but many of them have been fucking lied to into this dangerous thing and it just sucks all around. And they I mean, part of the complicated thing is that, like the most effective disinformation spreads because somebody you, you trust, tells it to you. That is the way it works.

So we talk about how it's these influencers, but it's also these like these individuals who are dying, who are saying it on Facebook to their two friends, are a big part of the disinfo spread. They're just not as much A part of the moral blame is that because they're getting it from the big influencers. But they're the

ones who are convincing family members. It's true, But creating a reddit to make fun of people like that isn't changing anyone's mind, isn't changing the people that are influencing their family members. It just pisces them off more, doesn't Is there any hope of that? Like we've I feel like we tried. I feel like we tried to change minds.

And I guess here's where I am is Like they have the informations out there a tremendous amount, Like I've been one of the people like publishing journalistic articles on COVID disinformation, so have a lot of colleagues of mine. It doesn't matter, it didn't help, So why I just I can't. I can't say it's a good thing to do. The Herman Kane Awards ship But um, I guess I don't think people have any responsibility at this point to care about fixing the problem because the problem is so

intractable and they have no ability to fix it. Like at this point, maybe the best way to fix the problem is for enough of these people to die that the rest gets scared and get their fucking shot. Well, I mean, that's the thing that was not how we wanted it to be. But that is where we are where. It's like almost every one of these stories is, uh, somebody gets sick. Who said that, Like I don't know whether it was a microchip or just like I don't know.

It's uh, you know, we don't have enough data about like long term effects. Whatever the reasoning is. They don't do it, they get sick. Uh, they die while saying I should have gotten the vaccine and then five or six of their family members and get the vaccine. I don't know. It's just I just don't like what I'm seeing in myself and in people that comes up with this, you know, and and so that's what I want to protect against in myself. But I do again understand and

um yeah, I mean I get it. I get the alert and why it exists. It just yeah, it's not good. It just something can be bad and also not really our problem anymore. Like it's it's maybe maybe that's a healthy mindset. Maybe I'm too codependent. It's not codependent. No, I'm just making fun of myself. But like in general, like like like healthy boundaries or something that I struggle with. So when you said, like at a certain point, it's not my problem anymore. I'm like, well that sounds healthy. Yeah.

If this had cropped up eight months ago, I would have been like, this is fucked up. But like, my god, they've had everything has been done, you know, Yeah, it's very and like that's the thing that the people who were like wilfully ignorant to, Like I saw Chris Rock got covid um he has been vaccinated. He said like, hey, it's got covid. You don't please get vaccinated. You you don't want this because he's probably having a bad time, probably would have had a much worse time if you

got vaccinated. I saw a fucking uh, what's the fucking guy, Tim Pool. It was like, but Chris, I thought you were vaccinated, and it's just like your will. It has been so long. You know what the vaccine is for. You know what it does. You know that if he didn't get it, it it would probably much worse for him. So like, what is what is the goal here? What are you trying to do? Why are you trying to sow this doubt in people when you know it's like he been a year and a half, almost two years

at this point. Chris, Yeah, I mean it's definitely been two years from when this was happening. It was spreading in Wuhan this time, right, you know? But um, yeah, I get and not to be like who what if? I just I don't want there to be a variant that is evading the vaccines that's evolved that we have to go back into an entire other lockdown. That's the other part of it is like you motherfucker's Yeah, well at this point, like what is the lockdown'm gonna do?

It is gonna piss people off and then like not be effective because it's not like people are gonna do it, right, Yeah, I I don't know. That's I just want to sort of echo like there is a helplessness about a lot of this stuff where it's like it just feels like what can be done? What can do? But I don't want to end on that note. So I've got how about how about you talk about I don't have it

right in front of me? The Texas doctor who went ahead and done did an abortion and basically said come at me, come at it, good dude, good dude, Alan braid Uh And he is a San Antonio physician, and yeah, he performed an abortion he told The Washington Post he was just out there saying it basically, come and get me. There were two, uh, lawsuits pretty quickly filed. And I

love this. Um. A former Arkansas lawyer, Oscar Stilly, who said he is on home confinement serving time after a tax fraud conviction, filed a civil complaint against the doctor Monday and Bexar County District Court. He said he decided to sue the doctor after he read about the case. Uh oh, thank you, be heart. After he read about the case early Monday morning and wanted to test the Texas law. The doctor is gonna get sued. Mr Stilly said,

someone's going to get ten thousand off of him. If that's the law, I might as well get the money. It's not the law. Let's go to court and get it sorted out. So, you know, I'm glad that he has such strong moral convictions of someone's going to get the money. It might as well be me while I sit here serving time for my tax evasion. Beautiful. Yeah, it's very funny, but this is you know, uh, what we knew what happened, Like the only way that we

potentially see some changes here. UM or if this case goes all the way to Supreme Court and on the constitutionality of the law, because before they were talking about they were just you know, going shrugging at a loophole. But if this case goes, it would directly question whether or not the law is constitutional. And that's something although again the court is filled with people that fuck um. Also, I believe it's December one that that other case directly

challenging Row will be seen. So fun things to look on this more later, I'm sure, but I think that now we covered an all bounce us for the day. Yeah, we'll just talking about Amazon's factory towns in the future. Yeah, we we have a lot to talk about. We also need Yeah, we have a We'll talk about a lot of good stuff in the future, but for right now. You know what I want to talk about, Hm, Joe

mansions come, what God, Joe mansions come? Now? The consistency Cody, Katie, do you did you guys ever do that thing where you made like your own plato in uh in in in elementary school. You're going to ruin my childhood with whatever. Now, imagine if instead of using water for that, you used raw milk, like raw goat milk straight from the utter.

That's the way Joe mansions come comes out. And I imagine while he's coming, he sounds like an old man with a prostate issue, Like he's like it hurts, like he doesn't enjoy coming. Called masturbation, milking it yeah, yeah, it's like pushing a soft boulder out of a foam wall. It's it's horrible for him. I'm milking chunks over here. That's that's that's what Joe Manchin says when he comes. I'm milking some chunks, milking chunks. Hey, let's push the

meeting ten minutes. I got some chunks to milk out. Then he puts him in his coffee. Man. My cameras off so you couldn't see, but I crawled under the desk. That's the end of the episode. Good God, bless you all. Good d you sir, everyone, everything I tried, lovely