00:00.78
Viktoria Daute
All right, my guest today is Katarina. um Thanks for being here, Katarina. How are you today?
00:08.44
Katerina Manoff
Hi, I'm great. Thank you for having me.
00:10.54
Viktoria Daute
No, thank you for being here. um tell me Tell me, where are you calling from right now?
00:16.87
Katerina Manoff
So currently I'm living outside of Washington, D.C. in the United States.
00:20.57
Viktoria Daute
Okay, and this is also where you're from?
00:24.25
Katerina Manoff
No, I was born in K of Ukraine. ah So I ah spent the first few years of my life there and then my family immigrated to the New York area. So I then um I've lived in in the U.S. for most of my adult life.
00:39.66
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, right. Do you remember how old you were when you came to the US?
00:42.80
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, I was almost eight when I initially came to the U.S.
00:46.30
Viktoria Daute
Ah.
00:47.14
Katerina Manoff
So, yeah, it was an interesting age to discover a whole new country.
00:49.14
Viktoria Daute
All right.
00:52.28
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, and ah ah did you speak English?
00:55.09
Katerina Manoff
I didn't, no. You know, we um we were starting to study it in school and in Ukraine. Most ah kids study English at some level at school, but but it's not, you know, it's not real conversation, right?
01:06.15
Katerina Manoff
you don't come ready to actually speak and be immersed.
01:06.67
Viktoria Daute
Right.
01:08.79
Katerina Manoff
So it was a a difficult transition for me. Fortunately, being younger, i did get used to it soon enough.
01:17.75
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, do you remember like how long it took?
01:21.42
Katerina Manoff
I would say took, you probably few focused months before I was able to really get around and, you know, and keep up and and in school, but really at a very basic level.
01:32.87
Katerina Manoff
And I think it took a few years to where I felt like I was fully able to express everything that I wanted to say. And it's only been now like, you know, some almost 30 years after coming where I feel like people don't notice that I have an accent anymore and don't say, oh, you know, where are you from?
01:48.39
Viktoria Daute
No.
01:49.60
Katerina Manoff
so So I feel like there's like different stages of of the journey as far as the language, right?
01:54.51
Viktoria Daute
Right, no, I did not hear an Just took 30 years.
01:54.75
Katerina Manoff
And and perhaps I've finally gotten there. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, and before, you know, yeah and I'd meet people on the plane and whatnot, and they'd be like, oh, like, are you from Eastern Europe? Or, you know, where are you originally from? And I'd be surprised because I didn't think I had an accent, but it was there, and and now it seems to have it seems to have gone away, for better over worse.
02:18.04
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, exactly.
02:19.80
Viktoria Daute
All right, that's good to know. So maybe like 20 years I lose my accent too, but I don't think so. It's so hard. I don't know. I mean, you don't hear it, right?
02:30.96
Viktoria Daute
It's just like natural.
02:32.88
Katerina Manoff
and you Yeah, pronunciation, I think is the hardest part you you have people who speak perfect English. I mean, no, no errors at all and have wide vocabulary, but then the accent is sort of the last thing to go.
02:43.21
Katerina Manoff
But I also think, you know, it kind of makes you unique. So I i wouldn't mind having a bit of an accent really tight ties you to your heritage, you know, as long as people can understand you, then I think it's fine.
02:46.65
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
02:53.29
Viktoria Daute
Right. Yes. And did you stay in the New York area?
02:59.05
Katerina Manoff
So as a child, yes. And then um I went to college by Philadelphia. And then I had a really um great opportunity to study abroad. So I spent some time in Spain, in Madrid.
03:09.80
Katerina Manoff
um And it was absolutely a life-changing experience for me. And I have dreamed of going back since and actually um working on a move with my family this summer, going back to Madrid ah again.
03:13.67
Viktoria Daute
Uh huh.
03:20.45
Viktoria Daute
Oh. Oh, work for good or just for a little bit?
03:25.02
Katerina Manoff
Oh, likely not. You know, our families are here. Our friends are here. So I think it's, you know, it's just an adventure for for a year to have that international experience. um For my kids, you know, my oldest is actually around the age I was when I moved to the US.
03:38.51
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
03:38.68
Katerina Manoff
So I think it'll be really enriching and interesting for them. And also for my husband and me to to come back to where because he said he brought there too. So we actually started dating there. It's kind of where our story started.
03:48.39
Viktoria Daute
ah
03:49.08
Katerina Manoff
And it's nice to come back full circle.
03:49.56
Viktoria Daute
Okay. Okay, um um how long ago was that, that you went to Madrid?
03:55.15
Katerina Manoff
Oh my gosh, too long ago. I didn't say 18 years.
03:58.57
Viktoria Daute
Oh wow, okay, that is a long time ago. And how long have you been there at that time?
04:05.78
Katerina Manoff
It was a semester. So it was, you know, something like five or six months.
04:08.16
Viktoria Daute
Six months. Mm-hmm.
04:09.67
Katerina Manoff
And to me, honestly, it was really like the amount of growth and change that can happen in just a few months ah was really surprising. But um despite being relatively short, right, on like a um quantitative basis, I mean, the the impact of it has reverberated for decades of my personal and professional life.
04:21.69
Viktoria Daute
Right.
04:28.83
Viktoria Daute
Right. And so this is also what we want to talk about, like your, your company engine. So can you tell me about that?
04:38.23
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, so five years ago, I started a nonprofit called Engine. And the idea was to connect ah Ukrainians to English speakers to speak online weekly yeah for an hour and and practice their English and also share their cultures and sort of form form relationships and friendships.
04:52.46
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
04:56.69
Viktoria Daute
her
04:57.12
Katerina Manoff
And so it was very much inspired by my study abroad experience because – Again, there, yes sort you sort of go, I want to improve my Spanish. I'd been studying it for ages, still didn't feel very fluent.
05:08.76
Katerina Manoff
I didn't feel fluent at all. And I thought, okay, I'm going to go.
05:10.42
Viktoria Daute
yeah
05:12.11
Katerina Manoff
I'll speak better Spanish. But then I got there and um discovering a new culture and making lifelong friends and meeting my husband and all of this was in that one experience, it was just that sort of multi-dimensional nature of it ah was really what surprised me in a very positive way.
05:26.16
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
05:30.88
Katerina Manoff
And I was thinking, well, how can anyone have this experience? um i I wanted to um think about, you know, how do how do you do this in a way that's accessible so so everyone can have this combination of language learning but also cultural immersion and building authentic relationships without having to fly across the world because, know, unfortunately, most people aren't in a position to do that.
05:53.11
Katerina Manoff
and And so it was very much a direct line between my experience in Madrid and what I created um for my homeland for Ukraine with Engin.
05:53.52
Viktoria Daute
yeah
06:01.74
Viktoria Daute
so that is almost like a tutoring program could you say like a language tutoring
06:08.00
Katerina Manoff
You know, I have to tell you, one of the hardest things about running this is like people try to put it in a box, but it doesn't really fit into any boxes. So it's it's not really tutoring.
06:15.65
Viktoria Daute
okay
06:17.45
Katerina Manoff
Why? Because we just are connecting regular people and they're just speaking. So our English speakers, but the majority of them actually do not have any experience as teachers or tutors. And um and actually, our Ukrainians who are coming have been studying English formally in school, like I said, that's very common there, or maybe, you know, on their own, or they even have a tutor, a Ukrainian tutor, but they just really need a person to talk to, to lose the fear of speaking.
06:35.70
Viktoria Daute
evening
06:43.58
Katerina Manoff
So i would say it's a, you know, it's it's a speaking practice, conversational exchange, cultural exchange, mentorship, it's it's it's sort of this like category defying organization.
06:44.24
Viktoria Daute
ah Okay.
06:54.11
Katerina Manoff
Maybe the closest example I can think of is like pen pals, you know, I i don't know if you're familiar with that, but
06:58.39
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
06:59.59
Katerina Manoff
Back in the day before the internet, right you'd write letters, and you'd you'd have someone that you'd match be matched up to.
07:00.98
Viktoria Daute
Uh-huh. Right.
07:04.33
Katerina Manoff
So it was sharing stories and sharing conversations and building that relationship. So something like that, but I guess upgraded for the 21st century.
07:12.74
Viktoria Daute
Right. And um so, but it's only for Ukrainians learning English?
07:19.01
Katerina Manoff
Yes, exactly. So the the idea is that you know English is the global language um for for better for worse.
07:24.59
Viktoria Daute
moving
07:26.18
Katerina Manoff
Right. And knowing English really opens up a lot of opportunities to connect to, you know, 60 percent of the Internet is in English. Right. We're looking at scientific, business, political.
07:37.23
Katerina Manoff
conversations and knowledge, English is going to give you access to the biggest base of ah information and give you the opportunity to connect to the most people.
07:40.64
Viktoria Daute
Right.
07:44.44
Katerina Manoff
So ah losing the fear of speaking in English and really being able to connect to others in that language really creates the most opportunity. so we are We are focused there. And, um you know, I'm working in Ukraine specifically, I guess, because it's close to my heart, right?
08:00.04
Viktoria Daute
Right, right.
08:00.07
Katerina Manoff
And also because there's just this huge potential there. I mean, Ukraine has actually one of the most educated populations, I think, of any country worldwide. But since becoming independent in 1991, it really hasn't reached its economic and social potential. um And I think one piece of the puzzle is just being able to connect with the world through English. And so I think if we um you know really reach a critical mass of people, we can actually transform the entire country.
08:28.45
Katerina Manoff
And that's why you know people sometimes ask, why why aren't you working with learners everywhere? Well, it's because I really wanna do something that's never been done before, which changed an entire nation through a lot of one-on-one connections. you know I think maybe it'll take a million.
08:42.27
Katerina Manoff
And you really need to have that critical mass of people in one place in order to reach that vision, right rather than having that same number of people spread out all over the world where maybe personally they'll benefit, but you're not going to get have that concentrated national impact, which is a big part of our innovation So that's what I'm really excited about doing, you know, and having it be like ah almost a template or a case study.
09:03.47
Katerina Manoff
And then maybe other countries will say, well, we want to do this too. We want to invest in our people and our human capital.
09:06.90
Viktoria Daute
yeah
09:08.51
Katerina Manoff
And it can kind of spread from there.
09:10.73
Viktoria Daute
Okay, and so like who are um the people, let's say like I would be like one of the persons who wants to have like a conversation in English, who would talk to?
09:17.10
Katerina Manoff
Mm-hmm.
09:21.98
Viktoria Daute
Like who are the people on the other side of the screen?
09:22.51
Katerina Manoff
yeah
09:25.93
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, absolutely. So we actually, you know, so on the volunteer side, we have an extremely diverse volunteer base. It's it's really inspiring to me and and kind of shocking actually having started this with, you know, a few dozen high schoolers in the U.S.
09:37.59
Katerina Manoff
Like five years ago, that's what it was.
09:38.66
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
09:39.78
Katerina Manoff
And now we've had over 26,000 volunteers. um They come from, yeah, I know, right?
09:43.48
Viktoria Daute
Oh, wow.
09:45.30
Katerina Manoff
It's like I could never have predicted when I was starting this.
09:46.69
Viktoria Daute
That's huge.
09:48.60
Katerina Manoff
I thought, you know as a side note, I started this as like a little maternity leave project. I was having a baby.
09:53.47
Viktoria Daute
Right.
09:53.85
Katerina Manoff
COVID had just started.
09:54.31
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
09:55.66
Katerina Manoff
And I thought, you know, let me help a few dozen people. And then it kind of exploded. So, yes, um very, very big.
09:59.82
Viktoria Daute
Oh, wow.
10:02.32
Katerina Manoff
um So over 26,000 volunteers. And um we've had volunteers from 140 countries. um So all around the world, there's English speakers everywhere.
10:08.37
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
10:12.14
Katerina Manoff
You know, obviously, big, big concentration here in the U.S. But really, yeah. everywhere. and And they range from age 13 to age 89, I think is the oldest volunteer I met.
10:23.00
Viktoria Daute
okay
10:24.33
Katerina Manoff
So just really anyone, you know, there's there's there's parents, there's professionals, there's retired people, there's a lot of students in high school and college. I mean, just any kind of person you can think of, you know, there's people from the military, there's people from education backgrounds, religious backgrounds, business people, ah artists, teachers, just continues to amaze me every day as I meet our volunteers, um how we have people really from all walks of life.
10:51.70
Viktoria Daute
Oh, wow. And is there like a um kind of like a curriculum what you talk about? Or is it just whatever? Can you just like make your own conversation?
11:01.65
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, well, you know, it's kind of in the middle. So we have put together a whole bunch of what we call session plans. So they're activities on all different topics. So you never feel lost. And if you could, you could spend an entire year every week just following the different session plans and, you know, mix and match in any order.
11:19.04
Katerina Manoff
What we see usually is people will start with those um and then they get really comfortable, right? They get to know their person. They say, well, I know best what's, you know, ah what, what they want.
11:25.04
Viktoria Daute
Right. Yeah,
11:28.41
Katerina Manoff
They know best. We can figure it out together. And so um we kind of provide a scaffolding where as you're getting to know each other, you want to avoid that awkwardness and say, oh my gosh, I have nothing to talk about because we provide everything you need and more.
11:37.37
Viktoria Daute
yeah.
11:40.08
Katerina Manoff
So, you know, you, you you go from there. And then over time, they sort of create their own things. They'll just talk about how their week was. They'll send articles, you know, they're, they're tailored to to the people's interests. um They'll do presentations and practice.
11:53.77
Katerina Manoff
It really depends. And because it's one on one, it's really choose your own adventure. And that's a huge part of the success because people can create the experience that works best for them.
11:59.06
Viktoria Daute
Right.
12:05.28
Katerina Manoff
And we're not forcing a structure on them.
12:07.72
Viktoria Daute
Right. and But the um other people sometimes matched a little bit like age wise or I don't know, girls and girls and boys and boys or
12:16.00
Katerina Manoff
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I think that's you know probably the second big ah key to to our success and why it's grown so much.
12:26.48
Katerina Manoff
I mean, the the matchers on our team are absolutely incredible. So yes, every match is ant's computer assisted, but it's made by a human in the end. So we are looking um at gender preference.
12:35.22
Viktoria Daute
ah
12:37.87
Katerina Manoff
like Like you mentioned, that's one thing. Some people are more comfortable with meeting someone of the with someone of the same gender. So we'll definitely honor that. Interests, professions, we love to match people with similar professional backgrounds because that opens up a whole you know new dimension that they can connect on.
12:48.47
Viktoria Daute
Right.
12:52.01
Viktoria Daute
Right.
12:53.25
Katerina Manoff
um Or maybe they have similar hobbies, you know, or age wise, we do match minors with minors. So it's just safer and more comfortable for
13:01.70
Viktoria Daute
Right.
13:01.75
Katerina Manoff
kids and teenagers to be working with other kids and teenagers and in adults you know it's adults of all ages and so they might be peers there might be one younger one older so it's more like a mentor relationship but yes we're very very thoughtful about the matches and that's actually one of the most common feedbacks that i get um she just met a volunteer in person about a week ago and she said she was just matched she was pretty new and they had their first meeting with her student and and she said they both said to each other i'm so glad it's you you know it felt like you know this kind of soulmate
13:02.89
Viktoria Daute
Mm-hmm.
13:30.57
Katerina Manoff
relationship from the start.
13:30.80
Viktoria Daute
okay
13:31.93
Katerina Manoff
And it almost made me cry a little because I mean, that's the point, right to find to find your person who's totally different from you in terms of country and age and no background, but then you have this connection with them.
13:42.29
Katerina Manoff
And that's so rare in real life, isn't it? So kind of to create that for people, it's really what drives me.
13:46.40
Viktoria Daute
it's almost like a meet cute yeah yeah no of course not
13:48.89
Katerina Manoff
Yes, exactly. Exactly. You know, it's obviously, you know, we don't do it like we're not a dating agency.
13:52.74
Viktoria Daute
yeah of course
13:52.83
Katerina Manoff
It's not that kind of thing. But yes, I mean, it is, you know, I was ah writing to my team, you it's like engine love stories, you know, it's platonic love stories, people who meet and um And some of them, you know, the program is online, but we've had, I would say, well over 100 documented cases where they met in person.
14:09.81
Katerina Manoff
So the volunteer will spend their own money to fly over to Ukraine or, you know, some of our students are refugees.
14:10.63
Viktoria Daute
Oh, nice.
14:15.71
Katerina Manoff
So they may be in Poland or or elsewhere in and Europe, um or maybe the student has an opportunity to come to the U.S. and then they make an effort to meet in person because their relationship has come to mean so much that they, you know, they go outside the scope of the program to
14:25.01
Viktoria Daute
Great. Nice.
14:29.01
Katerina Manoff
um to meet and then some them keep in touch for years too long after sort of the official program is done. They're still talking. They meet each other's families. They share pictures and updates and um that the depth of the relationships that conform through this program has really been such a wonderful surprise for me.
14:47.19
Viktoria Daute
Yeah. And um so are the the people who want to learn English, are they usually like on an a one level or is that also, um does it also matter like how your how your confidence is?
14:52.93
Katerina Manoff
you.
15:04.36
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, that's a great question. um We really have a wide range. um We don't have complete beginners, you know, so if if you can't even have a basic conversation, and we do screen everyone for this.
15:18.37
Katerina Manoff
um if you If you don't know English at all, this isn't going to work because like I was saying, it's not teaching, right? It's conversation practice. So you can get better from
15:25.35
Viktoria Daute
ah
15:28.09
Katerina Manoff
ah from the foundation where you're starting, but there needs to be some kind of foundation there.
15:31.95
Viktoria Daute
Right.
15:32.33
Katerina Manoff
In Ukraine, I think this works really well because, again, most people have studied a little bit and they have it in their head and it's just a question of unlocking it through real conversations and removing that fear, right?
15:40.06
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
15:43.29
Katerina Manoff
um
15:43.52
Viktoria Daute
Right.
15:44.49
Katerina Manoff
And I think there's, you there's probably other countries that are similar, but, ah you know, Back to the topic of like, would this work everywhere? you Probably not every single country.
15:54.57
Katerina Manoff
You need to have a foundation of English, but it doesn't need to be advanced. So you we have people who are, I would say,
16:01.02
Viktoria Daute
Thank
16:01.70
Katerina Manoff
definite beginners, just not, you just not starting from scratch. And it actually works um really well for them. And they're the ones who see some of the most progress just because, you know, because there's so much room to grow there.
16:13.78
Katerina Manoff
And they go from, you know, words to to sentences or even, know, longer speaking in longer stretches and and a lot of improvement there. um But also there's people who are intermediate, there's people who are advanced.
16:24.86
Katerina Manoff
And because it's one-on-one, we get to meet everyone where they are are are at and give them exactly what they need.
16:31.39
Viktoria Daute
and Okay, and like how long um is usually like one ah one interaction?
16:39.06
Katerina Manoff
Yeah. So it really, again, it's, it's very personalized. Um, we asked for a minimum of three months because we've just seen through our data, like that's how long it takes, um, to really see an impact.
16:47.69
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
16:48.98
Katerina Manoff
You're not really going to have the same impact from meeting, you know two or three times with someone.
16:52.27
Viktoria Daute
Right.
16:53.00
Katerina Manoff
Um, but beyond that three month minimum, honestly, know, it's, it, some people just do that and say, okay, you know, i was already pretty good. I've broken my, my language barrier. I'm not afraid to speak anymore.
17:04.66
Katerina Manoff
That's good. Um, six to nine months is common, but then you have a pretty sizable group of people who want to stay for a year or more, even when they're already pretty good. And we try to tell some of them, maybe you want to try being a volunteer and working with a beginner because we do that. Some of our students become volunteers, but some of them just want to keep talking to their conversation partners because of the relationship that's formed and I think right now with the war and unfortunately, lot of Ukrainians are really struggling right on an emotional level and just having that support every week.
17:36.78
Katerina Manoff
um It's a constant in their life. And so we never kick anyone out if they want to do this for two years, three years.
17:39.05
Viktoria Daute
yeah. Right.
17:41.74
Katerina Manoff
yeah They're very welcome to. and
17:43.33
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
17:43.48
Katerina Manoff
And so it's something that, again, we can just really customize to what works best for each pair.
17:48.83
Viktoria Daute
Did you see um an uptick in like people who want to join since the war started? um mean just i wonder, because like people who are thinking of going to a different country, obviously, um they just want to like improve their English first.
17:56.66
Katerina Manoff
Yeah. Yeah.
18:08.50
Katerina Manoff
Well, so, know, it was actually a huge turning point for us in February 2022 with the full-scale invasion. Prior to that, we had mainly been working with high school and college students because our volunteers were high school and college students.
18:22.47
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
18:22.75
Katerina Manoff
And the big motivation was, you know, building their resumes, doing volunteer hours.
18:26.39
Viktoria Daute
Right.
18:27.11
Katerina Manoff
In the U.S., it's, like, pretty –
18:28.15
Viktoria Daute
Yeah. Yeah.
18:29.11
Katerina Manoff
popular, right? You have to, of them actually have to hit a certain number of hours to graduate.
18:30.22
Viktoria Daute
ah hu
18:32.99
Katerina Manoff
So they were very motivated volunteers.
18:34.95
Viktoria Daute
Yeah. Right.
18:37.23
Katerina Manoff
um But um what we saw, and ah but with yeah I have to say the Ukraine side, we'd had demand from adults from the beginning, but we just couldn't take them on because our volunteers were kids, you know, or or college students.
18:48.22
Viktoria Daute
right
18:49.58
Katerina Manoff
And so with the full scale invasion, what we saw was a huge uptick in volunteer interest from volunteers of all ages.
18:57.07
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
18:58.33
Katerina Manoff
So that was a huge change for us from you know a student program to a program for everyone. And that was our little silver lining, because I think, you know, a big part of the motivation is, you know, you read about terrible things going on in the news, or I'm sure you this happens to you like I
19:12.15
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
19:12.90
Katerina Manoff
It happens to me all the time. I read the news and I just feel so powerless because I can't fix it. I can't do anything, right? And this is not just in Ukraine, but but anywhere.
19:18.24
Viktoria Daute
um yeah
19:20.79
Katerina Manoff
And it's so rare that you can really plug in in a meaningful way with a problem across the world. um And we created that where absolutely anyone, right, regardless of their location, regardless of their skills, can...
19:35.66
Katerina Manoff
match with a Ukrainian and really change their life and do it in a way that's very simple, um very flexible schedule-wise. And so ah you can take all of that anger and frustration that you feel and really channel it into action.
19:48.57
Katerina Manoff
And I think it's just a very rare and unique opportunity. And so we heard a lot over the past three years, and even now that Ukraine is back in the news. and guy i just I just met someone who said um she watched the White House meeting on February 28th between Zelensky and Trump, and she was just so infuriated by it that
20:01.51
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
20:05.07
Katerina Manoff
she just went and signed up the next day for for engine so yes uh you know for for for what it's worth you know the the full skin invasion did drive a lot of volunteers our way and um and as far as uh student demand and yes definitely being able to open the program to adults right that creates a whole new population we can serve so we grew a lot on that side as well
20:06.99
Viktoria Daute
Yeah. yeah
20:26.47
Viktoria Daute
Right.
20:29.28
Katerina Manoff
Um, sometimes like right now it can be a little tough to be honest, because people are just so exhausted by over three years of war and there's, and sometimes they just don't have the energy to do something new or learn something new.
20:37.86
Viktoria Daute
a
20:40.99
Katerina Manoff
And, and I get that, you know, so we still, and we still have, we still have a lot of demand, but, um, but definitely I've heard from some people like, well, this program sounds amazing, but like right now I just can't like bring myself emotionally to, so to talk to humans and to sign up for something new.
20:42.54
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
20:55.26
Viktoria Daute
Right.
20:56.53
Katerina Manoff
um So so it's ah it's sad and and something that we hope we hope the war will end. And then I do think we'll see so much demand, know, because it's ah it's all about connecting and rebuilding and learning.
21:07.99
Katerina Manoff
And it's a very positive um driving force in people's lives. I think after the war, um it's going to be um even bigger and and even more important. But for now, we just um yeah have to take it day by day.
21:20.18
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, yeah, of course. But that is um really great. And um how do how do people find you?
21:28.51
Katerina Manoff
Um, there are a bunch of different ways. And we spend a lot of time on this spreading the word because we know as a relatively organization, right? One of the most challenging things, I guess, is that people just don't know about us.
21:43.21
Katerina Manoff
So, um so we do have pretty solid word of mouth, I would say half of students um do find us because someone who's in the program
21:43.39
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
21:48.39
Viktoria Daute
Mm-hmm.
21:52.62
Katerina Manoff
told them so it could be a friend, a family member, and people love the program.
21:53.57
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
21:56.93
Katerina Manoff
So it is really, really nice and you're really reassuring to see so many people coming on referrals. um Here in the volunteer side, there's a number of websites, you know, that post volunteer opportunities. So we try to get on all of those.
22:13.34
Katerina Manoff
um We have a website and we really try to optimize it so more and more people are finding us just by Googling. um We do you know social media posts and and different groups and channels.
22:18.57
Viktoria Daute
and Yeah.
22:21.74
Katerina Manoff
So it's really a multifaceted recruitment strategy because we really are trying to reach as many people as possible. And so it's you know it's a little bit of everything and it it does work. and We have a few hundred applications every week that come in and we we hope to continue growing.
22:39.41
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, do you remember in the beginning, like when you started it, like um how how many you had or like how when it was that you had the first one, the first volunteer who signed up or like how was it even to like ah get your foot in the door?
22:55.51
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, well, starting something is always hard, you know, and then I basically just use my own network. I had ah worked with Ukrainian students for several years as a mentor.
23:07.88
Viktoria Daute
Uh-huh.
23:08.57
Katerina Manoff
um And that's actually, you know, what what also led me to start Engine and and and and um try to find a solution for Ukrainians who been studying English, but were
23:08.81
Viktoria Daute
ah hu
23:21.92
Katerina Manoff
having difficulty speaking. I was working with one particular student who was extremely strong. She was probably one of the smartest ah teenagers know of of of her age in the whole country. ah had She had perfect grades. She had national level prizes in different disciplines. And she'd been studying English, I think, for 10 years or so. And so her written English was perfect when we wrote back and forth.
23:43.14
Katerina Manoff
And then we got on our first Zoom call. She was too scared to talk to me, right?
23:46.66
Viktoria Daute
Mm-hmm.
23:46.83
Katerina Manoff
She had this very clear barrier. And um and it made me think, what can I find for her to help her? And then I was looking around, realized there wasn't anything and then decided to start my own. So, um, at that first stage, it was really, uh, talking to the students I had mentored and, and their are friends, like I said, you know this is the size of a few dozen people.
24:09.52
Katerina Manoff
Uh, they all had studied English. They all wanted to speak English better. So, um, and That was the student side. And then on the volunteer side, I had been working with U.S. teenagers um with college essay editing and and admissions consulting. And that's something that, again, I was familiar with but that side. I understood sort of how how they worked. So I worked with a few people I knew and a few schools.
24:32.76
Katerina Manoff
And they spread the word. and And that's how it started. was just very much, you know, posting on my personal Facebook, emailing people.
24:38.69
Viktoria Daute
Yeah. huh
24:39.75
Katerina Manoff
And posting on LinkedIn and getting a few dozen here and there and starting to match them. And then it just took off. And that's when I really said, okay, there's something here.
24:45.54
Viktoria Daute
Nice.
24:47.93
Katerina Manoff
Because before I knew it, it was hundreds of people. So it wasn't people anymore that I knew or that I had recruited. They just started hearing about it and signing up. And that was really powerful and led me to think, okay, well, I need to keep this going.
25:03.54
Katerina Manoff
And, you know, eventually I turned it into my full-time job and and the whole organization that has almost 40 people on the team now.
25:04.19
Viktoria Daute
Mm-hmm.
25:09.74
Katerina Manoff
So it's, it started, yeah, very, very small and very personal, but it's changed a lot since then.
25:10.11
Viktoria Daute
Oh, wow. Yeah, nice.
25:13.81
Viktoria Daute
Uh-huh. Yeah. And like in the beginning, was it just like here you have a Zoom link and then you meet and... um
25:21.45
Katerina Manoff
Yeah. um Yeah. Yeah. Just, just, ah just, ah Thinking about that, because as we celebrated our fifth birthday, we're reflecting on how far we've come. And yeah, was really low, low tech, low budget. We had a Google spreadsheet.
25:35.99
Katerina Manoff
We had Google Forms that connected the spreadsheet. So, you know, if you're a student, you sign up here.
25:38.26
Viktoria Daute
Right.
25:40.09
Katerina Manoff
If you want to be a volunteer, you sign up here.
25:41.64
Viktoria Daute
Right.
25:42.15
Katerina Manoff
From the beginning, you know, we interviewed everyone for safety.
25:42.35
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
25:45.92
Katerina Manoff
But then, yeah, we would like literally look at the list and say, okay, you can be a match. You can be a match. And we send them an email being like, here's your partner. Have fun. And that was it.
25:53.30
Viktoria Daute
okay
25:53.34
Katerina Manoff
I can't believe that, you know, it actually like worked without anything. We didn't have those resources I was telling you about with the conversation plans, right? We didn't have any kind of training for anyone. I mean, it was just, yeah, it was just a spreadsheet and emails. That was it. um And of course, weve we've had to build a lot more since then. But yeah, somehow it worked.
26:12.17
Katerina Manoff
And they you know they took care of their own Zoom links and everything. So we were very much just like a matchmaker.
26:14.75
Viktoria Daute
Uh-huh.
26:17.17
Katerina Manoff
and and And people still loved it.
26:17.42
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
26:20.71
Katerina Manoff
So that really was what told me that this should probably continue existing and I should keep building it.
26:24.57
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
26:25.87
Katerina Manoff
Yeah.
26:26.06
Viktoria Daute
How long is like one conversation when they have it? Like 10 minutes or ah half an hour? Or can you choose? Uh-huh.
26:33.09
Katerina Manoff
So we ask for an hour a week um because we really see you want to see that consistency.
26:35.65
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
26:37.48
Katerina Manoff
And some people split it up into two half an hour conversations, but then ah most people stick with an hour.
26:40.63
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
26:43.46
Katerina Manoff
And then I do hear some of them go beyond and they'll stay on for an hour and a half or two hours because they just have so much to talk about, which is very sweet.
26:48.69
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
26:51.38
Viktoria Daute
Okay. And is it more the volunteer who talks or more the person who wants to learn who talks? ah but
27:01.40
Katerina Manoff
It's funny because, you know, obviously it's it is going to be a little bit different. Again, ah based on the level, right? of A real beginner will not be able to speak for an hour or most of the hour.
27:08.13
Viktoria Daute
Right, of course.
27:12.42
Katerina Manoff
An advanced learner definitely can. So with that said, it should be more of the student talking end. And usually it works very well.
27:19.19
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
27:20.33
Katerina Manoff
But we have had a couple cases where we had to gently remind the volunteer that the student should have a chance to talk.
27:20.63
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
27:23.25
Viktoria Daute
It's also
27:26.42
Katerina Manoff
but But that's very rare. Usually um they're really great at asking questions.
27:28.19
Viktoria Daute
important, yes.
27:30.34
Katerina Manoff
and ah But it's also, you know, it is supposed to be an exchange. So it um yeah if it's 50-50 or the student talking, you know, a little bit more, like that that's the sweet spot.
27:34.23
Viktoria Daute
yeah
27:39.85
Katerina Manoff
And the students also love hearing the volunteer stories. And, ah you know from a language perspective, listening is a really important skill too.
27:45.10
Viktoria Daute
and also important
27:46.57
Katerina Manoff
And just from that cultural perspective, I mean, they love hearing about life in other countries.
27:46.72
Viktoria Daute
yes
27:50.89
Katerina Manoff
And, you know, And like I have a student right now. She also runs ah she runs a history nonprofit in Ukraine. And so when we talk, I definitely feel like she always asks me so many questions and she's so curious about it. And I need to sort of hold back and say, okay, okay, let me stop. I know you're asking about me, but I'm going to get you to to talk.
28:09.79
Katerina Manoff
And we want to kind of have that balance.
28:13.00
Viktoria Daute
Okay, of course. i remember though, um when I learned English, because also I was already in school learning for 10 years English, like almost like you had like one lesson every day.
28:18.86
Katerina Manoff
Mm-hmm.
28:26.90
Viktoria Daute
i want to say like at like five hours a week of learning English, but it's just like vocabularies and grammar, but no confidence of speaking, you know.
28:29.61
Katerina Manoff
and
28:36.54
Viktoria Daute
And then I went abroad for like one year to Australia when I was 19.
28:37.20
Katerina Manoff
yeah
28:41.36
Viktoria Daute
um nineteen And it took me like six weeks to be able to speak like one full sentence. You know, like I understood when somebody talked to me, like probably not everything, but I want to say maybe like whatever, 70%.
29:00.52
Viktoria Daute
But like I was, i don't know, I couldn't get the words out, even if I wanted to.
29:00.55
Katerina Manoff
Yes.
29:05.36
Viktoria Daute
I'm just like, there was just like this barricade.
29:08.79
Katerina Manoff
Yeah.
29:08.82
Viktoria Daute
You know, so i think is helpful if you have somebody you can talk to, to get like, to make a sentence just, you know, just to get the start.
29:10.03
Katerina Manoff
Yeah.
29:19.82
Katerina Manoff
Yeah. No, that's exactly right. I mean, I think yeah I definitely went through that experience as well. um Twice, when I came to the US, I had a woman I met um named Madeline, who ah my my my mom had just brought me to like the free conversation classes at the library.
29:37.06
Viktoria Daute
Ah, yeah.
29:37.43
Katerina Manoff
and And this woman was volunteering there. And she said, well, let me work with this little girl. And she would take me out, you know, to go to a cafe, to her house, to the movies. And having that safe one-on-one space to to speak really helped a lot.
29:53.71
Katerina Manoff
um And same thing when I went to study abroad in and Madrid, I had a host brother um and and the family that I stayed with. he was another He was a Spanish student who was also renting a room there.
30:04.42
Katerina Manoff
And I remember ah you know we we were just there one-on-one and we had to talk for like an hour. And that was the first time that I was having real conversations and in Spanish.
30:10.54
Viktoria Daute
yeah
30:15.26
Katerina Manoff
So I think having having someone to talk to and maybe, you know, even on a deeper level, not just like, oh I'm going to go order at a restaurant, right? or Or ask where the bathroom is or make small talk in line.
30:23.01
Viktoria Daute
ah
30:26.03
Katerina Manoff
I mean, that's sort of one level. But then can you have real full conversations with someone? That's a different level. And that's not going to happen necessarily just in that sort of being out and about in public and and small talk um kind of interaction. So yeah, I think it's it's it's having having real conversations one-on-one.
30:44.17
Katerina Manoff
ah that's that's really transformational. And like you said, you know then it's a matter of weeks rather than years.
30:50.41
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, no, it's just like, I don't know. Also, like, it motivates you to, you know, if you have like a real person you can talk to, it's a different. And I mean, the sentence, oh, can I get a coffee, please? You can just like, you can just like remember this from your head, but doesn't mean anything.
31:08.81
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, um I think it's exactly right. And I think um it's it's it's really also that you can't hide, right, if you're in a group setting. And um this this is something that, you know in Ukraine they have this thing called speaking clubs, right?
31:19.69
Viktoria Daute
yeah
31:23.65
Katerina Manoff
and um And it might be one person who is like fluent or maybe even a native speaker, and they might have five or ten learners, but then the quiet ones just kind of stay quiet.
31:32.60
Viktoria Daute
Right.
31:35.10
Katerina Manoff
But when it's one on one, you can't hide like that. um So that's that's another thing that I think, you know you asked about how much students speak. Well, it's more right than they have would have been used to in in any kind of class or even small group setting because literally it's just them.
31:47.78
Viktoria Daute
right
31:50.32
Katerina Manoff
And it's motivating, too, because like if you don't show up and and if you don't show up to a class, the class will keep going without you. If you don't show up to one of these one on one conversations, right, it's like meeting a friend for coffee, like you you're not just gonna stand them up, because you know, they're going be sitting there all sad.
32:03.02
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
32:04.01
Katerina Manoff
So I think the one on one format is really key.
32:06.76
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, it is like it's great. and um yeah And as you said, like it's also nice to maybe hopefully develop a nice friendship. you know it's I mean, it's also a little bit like...
32:16.03
Katerina Manoff
Mm hmm.
32:18.35
Viktoria Daute
um um I don't know. yeah Yeah, just having somebody to talk to. Because I mean, like even nowadays, I feel like everybody is so isolated a lot of times.
32:29.38
Katerina Manoff
had
32:30.80
Viktoria Daute
So it's nice to have like a friendly face in front of you and like have a conversation. Because I feel like everybody is all the time on their phones, you know, and like all this like one on one conversation is missing so many times.
32:41.97
Katerina Manoff
Yeah.
32:45.99
Katerina Manoff
Yeah. I think it's true. It doesn't happen naturally in the same way that it used to. you know, we're not part of communities in the same way that we were. And it's really interesting to me ah to read statistics on loneliness and um you know young people who are surrounded by peers every day in school and college.
33:05.88
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
33:06.20
Katerina Manoff
You'd think they wouldn't be lonely at all, but they're actually some of the loneliest demographics based on research. So I think that goes to show, yeah, just being surrounded by people doesn't mean that you're connecting in a meaningful way and it's something that you need to seek out more.
33:21.37
Katerina Manoff
So that is definitely an extra... say like side side effect, positive side effect of engine. You come for the English and you stay for the friendship.
33:31.66
Viktoria Daute
Yeah. And tell me um the website so people can find you.
33:36.44
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, so it's www.engineprogram.org and it's spelled E-N-G-I-N program.org we are open 365 days a year um for for students and volunteers. They're really try to make it as easy as possible to to get involved. So there's no no limits, no deadlines, um and we welcome everyone to come check it out.
34:00.14
Viktoria Daute
right, and I'll make sure there's the link in the show notes so people can just like scroll down on your phone and then you'll find the link.
34:09.75
Katerina Manoff
Wonderful.
34:09.76
Viktoria Daute
um And um so can i um ask you now back to your ah plans of going to Madrid?
34:16.62
Katerina Manoff
Absolutely.
34:17.40
Viktoria Daute
So um why why did you choose Madrid in the first place?
34:22.59
Katerina Manoff
Well, when, when I was going to study abroad, um, I, I was studying Spanish, right? So that sort of led me to want to go to Spain.
34:29.41
Viktoria Daute
Mm-hmm.
34:32.14
Katerina Manoff
And i was just really excited about all the history and arts and culture. I'm, I'm a huge culture nerd. Uh, I love museums.
34:40.24
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
34:41.33
Katerina Manoff
I love theater. Um, I love really immersing myself in the traditions and and culture of a place. And so Madrid really seemed to be at the center of it all.
34:52.06
Katerina Manoff
um And ah most of my classmates went to Barcelona because it was like, you know, the party capital.
34:56.38
Viktoria Daute
Great.
34:58.22
Katerina Manoff
But i was I was a nerd, so I went to Madrid. And my husband was the other nerd who wanted to go to Madrid. And that's how we met.
35:04.37
Viktoria Daute
Okay.
35:05.31
Katerina Manoff
And, know, it was kind of meant to be from the beginning, I think, because um I noticed – um at At the time, you know I loved going to museums, but I could never really find people to go with because you kind of go different paces and it just didn't feel right.
35:19.21
Viktoria Daute
Right. Oh, yes, I know.
35:20.36
Katerina Manoff
It wasn't the vibe. But with him, from the beginning, we'd start going around and it was like we were on the same page. So i was like, I think he might be my soulmate.
35:25.37
Viktoria Daute
Oh, nice. Uh-huh.
35:27.38
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, so... So that's how we ended up studying abroad there. And I think having just had such an amazing experience, it was always a dream too to go back. And we actually took our kids to Spain for a vacation a couple of years ago when we were thinking, you know, maybe we'll be able to move back.
35:41.21
Katerina Manoff
And we went to Barcelona. and We went to Madrid. We went to a couple other places. And that we thought maybe this time we'll try something new. But just as soon as we were back to Madrid, it felt like home.
35:50.61
Viktoria Daute
Oh yeah. Hasn't it heitant not changed a lot since you were there? i mean, the museums were still the same or like, I mean, different exhibitions, but...
35:58.85
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, you know, I, yeah, it's a great question. I think it's almost like we changed and it felt like it stayed the same, you know, and when we went to the same places, like I went to ah house where I used to live, and it almost felt like if I could just, you know, go through the door, then I'd be back 20 years in time and I could see everything.
36:10.80
Viktoria Daute
Ah.
36:20.65
Viktoria Daute
Oh, yeah?
36:22.04
Katerina Manoff
A younger, younger me, you know, I think it's like that, you know, people change, but I don't know if places necessarily change. I suppose some do. But no, I didn't feel like Madrid had changed a lot in terms of just, you know, all the neighborhoods and people out been enjoying the good weather and been going to the park and sitting in cafes like um it was.
36:37.04
Viktoria Daute
Yes.
36:40.09
Katerina Manoff
um At least in the historical center too, right? Because I'm sure if you're looking at suburbs, like those places are physically changing more.
36:46.75
Viktoria Daute
Right.
36:48.08
Katerina Manoff
But in terms of the historical city center and and the neighborhoods that we were familiar with now, it almost felt like stepping back in time.
36:52.51
Viktoria Daute
man
36:54.76
Katerina Manoff
And that was very nostalgic.
36:54.85
Viktoria Daute
Nice. Yeah. And so how did you get the opportunity to go back or to go there for year?
37:02.35
Katerina Manoff
no They have a new visa now, a digital nomad visa. So I think it's just a couple years old.
37:07.05
Viktoria Daute
Right.
37:09.47
Katerina Manoff
So really that was um the key for me um running my own organization, which is completely virtual. and where Our program is virtual, but also our team is virtual.
37:17.79
Viktoria Daute
Mm-hmm.
37:20.24
Katerina Manoff
So most of the team is Ukrainian and they're all over.
37:20.83
Viktoria Daute
Mm-hmm.
37:23.12
Katerina Manoff
Everyone works from their own home. um And I do, too. So actually being there, I'm i'm closer to ah to my team. So it's it's almost easier to to be there than than here.
37:32.72
Viktoria Daute
Right.
37:35.11
Katerina Manoff
So having that that visa really provided the legal structure um to to be able to apply to move there.
37:41.42
Viktoria Daute
ah help
37:41.66
Katerina Manoff
And then it sort of covers your family, too. So your kids can go to school, you know, and your spouse can get a job there if they like.
37:46.79
Viktoria Daute
ah Okay.
37:47.27
Katerina Manoff
So. that That was the key. And we have spent a lot of time, um mostly my husband, but this very extensive paperwork, which is just piles and piles of it.
37:59.27
Katerina Manoff
And we applied and we got approved um earlier, I think ah um a month or two ago. So now we're just planning everything, all the logistics.
38:04.39
Viktoria Daute
Uh huh.
38:07.09
Viktoria Daute
Yeah. So what are the logistics? So what do you do with the place where you live right now? Is this do you rent or?
38:14.41
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, so we have to rent it out. I think, you know, part of the, oh ah a big part of making it work is and if you own a home, you need to rent it out, right? So the financials work.
38:23.60
Viktoria Daute
Right.
38:24.56
Katerina Manoff
So I've actually just spent the weekend like cleaning everything and we're going to have photos taken and and you working to, to rent it.
38:27.91
Viktoria Daute
ah Oh, God, yes. Uh huh.
38:32.03
Katerina Manoff
And then obviously we'll need to find a place there, but I think we need to get there and, you know, not, not try to do it over the internet and really see. So that's going to be the next big thing after we rent this one out, fly over and find a place to live there.
38:44.97
Katerina Manoff
And since we have kids, school was another big thing, which that, you know we were able to do over the internet and, and found, found a great school for our kids.
38:47.72
Viktoria Daute
Right.
38:52.65
Katerina Manoff
And now just brushing up on our Spanish and, you know, and figuring out the packing and everything.
38:53.29
Viktoria Daute
Uh-huh.
38:55.71
Viktoria Daute
Okay. and And you plan then to go after the school year or? Uh-huh.
38:59.63
Katerina Manoff
Exactly. Yeah. I think, you know, again, but with kids, you're kind of, um you know, you're you're in the the specific like rhythms of of life.
39:03.04
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, yeah.
39:06.67
Katerina Manoff
So mid June, as soon as school ends, we'll be flying out.
39:09.86
Viktoria Daute
Okay, oh, that's very interesting. And, um okay, so I had this other episode about, also a Madrid episode, like a few weeks ago, and we talked about this living situation, so um maybe you check it out, because as she said it's really hard to find a place to live in Madrid, but...
39:20.32
Katerina Manoff
Oh, yeah.
39:31.00
Katerina Manoff
Yes, it's true. Because everybody, we heard everybody wants to rent out, you know as Airbnbs because you make more money doing these short term rentals. And so most landlords just go for that rather than giving it to one family for a whole year.
39:46.29
Viktoria Daute
right you're hopeful yeah yeah um ah yeah i mean i guess you will figure it out you i'm and in the beginning you're just gonna get an airbnb because i mean you need a place to stay in the beginning too right
39:46.34
Katerina Manoff
ah So we're scared. ah But, you know, I mean, we'll figure it out.
40:02.96
Katerina Manoff
yeah Yeah, we got a place already for the first two weeks and then we're optimistically hoping that within two weeks we'll be able to to find our our real home.
40:07.16
Viktoria Daute
uh-huh okay
40:12.53
Katerina Manoff
um But, you know, that's part of the adventure, right?
40:14.66
Viktoria Daute
ah
40:15.96
Katerina Manoff
Not not really knowing what what will happen and and sort of playing it by ear.
40:16.05
Viktoria Daute
yeah yeah exactly okay how many kids do you take alone okay two girls okay oh well they're up for an adventure too ah but they don't know it you know they're like mommy knows what's best
40:23.79
Katerina Manoff
um I have two girls.
40:30.00
Katerina Manoff
ah They're both excited. So, yeah, I think um it'll be it'll be fun. And one of them has ah has been on Duolingo for the past four months. yeah She doesn't speak or didn't speak any Spanish.
40:39.17
Viktoria Daute
oh yeah
40:40.58
Katerina Manoff
And every day she goes on and she practices so she can speak to her new friends. It's very sweet, actually.
40:45.90
Viktoria Daute
Oh, that's sweet. And then she's also excited about it
40:49.33
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, yeah.
40:50.06
Viktoria Daute
Oh, that's good. Yes. No, I i keep my thumbs or my fingers crossed for you. ah
40:58.16
Katerina Manoff
Thank you.
40:58.60
Viktoria Daute
think of that sounds like, I mean, it's going to be an adventure for sure.
40:59.19
Katerina Manoff
Thank you.
41:03.08
Viktoria Daute
um And let me just check my questions real quick. earth Um...
41:11.69
Viktoria Daute
think we got most, but um do you think like um you will miss some things from the US when you go? Or um I mean, you also just because you go you know you only go for a month, ah for a year?
41:21.52
Katerina Manoff
a
41:26.29
Katerina Manoff
Oh, that's a great question. I haven't really thought about it. I guess I'll miss people more than, than yeah.
41:32.39
Viktoria Daute
and Yeah.
41:33.47
Katerina Manoff
yeah Well, yes, I think I'll definitely miss my friends and family. um what One thing I think I'll miss is having more space because, you know, here in the U.S., we have...
41:41.13
Viktoria Daute
Right.
41:41.99
Katerina Manoff
big bigger living spaces. So we we're we're in a nice big house now that we bought um for the kids to grow up in. And they're definitely used to, you know, invite 10 friends over and run around and play hide and seek.
41:52.81
Katerina Manoff
And we're going to be living in a small apartment. So it'll be a very different lifestyle. We're only bringing a few suitcases of stuff along because, you know, it's just going to be a much more minimalist way of living.
41:59.65
Viktoria Daute
right
42:02.31
Katerina Manoff
So um so maybe that that's something i'm I'm a little concerned about. But Again, we when we were there for vacation, we spent a month there a couple of years ago and um and it just it felt it felt very natural.
42:15.66
Katerina Manoff
It felt like a good fit and it it felt like the, you know, much more relaxed and, and, and friendly and, you know work-life balance was more normal and people were outside more and the food was better.
42:26.98
Viktoria Daute
Yeah. is it?
42:27.69
Katerina Manoff
And there's just so many things I think that are going to be really wonderful that, that they will outweigh the things that we will miss. And we hope that our friends and family will come and visit us.
42:36.30
Viktoria Daute
is it
42:36.41
Katerina Manoff
We're already inviting everyone. So we're going to get a guest room so you can come stay with us. And, and that way we can, we can see them even when we're there.
42:43.88
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, and I think so too. Like you will probably spend more time out. So the place doesn't, it's not needed to be so big because like you have more outside to enjoy.
42:59.28
Katerina Manoff
Yeah, exactly. I think that that's exactly right. It's sort of a very different way to think about life. Whereas it' here, it's a lot, you know, lot it's very car driven, right? And these houses are kind of like islands.
43:08.16
Viktoria Daute
Uh-huh.
43:09.82
Katerina Manoff
And you sort of have to take a car everywhere from like one air conditioned place to another air conditioned place.
43:10.02
Viktoria Daute
and hu
43:14.14
Viktoria Daute
Yeah, exactly.
43:14.74
Katerina Manoff
And like, and and you're not outside very much. And I don't love that. So I think, yeah, I think it's going to work very well to have like a more city lifestyle.
43:19.28
Viktoria Daute
and This is this is what I always say in summer. It's like you just go from air condition to air condition.
43:28.07
Viktoria Daute
But I think I don't know, do you even have like because like Madrid is also pretty hot. Right. So but it's.
43:34.67
Katerina Manoff
Yes, we know.
43:35.23
Viktoria Daute
that
43:37.34
Katerina Manoff
And that's a little scary coming in the summer, you know, but with the school schedules, like that's how we're going to have to do it.
43:42.30
Viktoria Daute
Yeah.
43:42.62
Katerina Manoff
So yeah, hopefully we can handle the heat.
43:47.18
Viktoria Daute
ah You will.
43:47.91
Katerina Manoff
I'll let you know.
43:48.22
Viktoria Daute
I mean, it will be okay. You will survive. do um Don't the kids in Spain also have such a long summer holiday?
43:58.87
Viktoria Daute
or is this just France?
43:59.58
Katerina Manoff
I think it's similar to here. I think, you know, when we looked at the school calendar, it's, you know, something like mid or late June is when it ends. And then it starts at the beginning of September.
44:10.77
Katerina Manoff
And then you have like your regular your Christmas break, your spring break or Easter break.
44:15.01
Viktoria Daute
Mm-hmm.
44:15.09
Katerina Manoff
And yeah, so the the school year is, I think, quite similar to what we had here.
44:16.60
Viktoria Daute
And It's similar. Okay. All right. right Oh, well then at least that is easy.
44:24.82
Katerina Manoff
Yeah.
44:25.42
Viktoria Daute
Yeah. All right. I guess that was all my questions. Thank you so much for being on my podcast. um um That was super interesting to hear about your company and about your ah next upcoming trip to Madrid.
44:39.13
Katerina Manoff
Thank you. um Thank you for having me. It was fun to talk about everything and you know especially about how um my my personal experience is really interweaved with the work we're doing at Engine. I don't get to talk about that side of it very often.
44:50.76
Katerina Manoff
So that was ah particularly interesting to reflect on because I do think that you know my my work and my life are actually intertwined and in so many ways um and and in terms of so one inspires the other and and and vice versa.
44:50.83
Viktoria Daute
Yeah,
45:05.06
Katerina Manoff
So Thanks for for all your great questions. And it was really a pleasure chatting with you.
45:10.15
Viktoria Daute
yeah it was a pleasure too. Thank you.