ReThinking: David Beckham on thriving under pressure and learning from mistakes

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For my motivation, there's nothing better than playing in front of a hundred thousand fans. I'd much rather do that than play in front of ten people, you know, and that's what I miss about the game. It almost sounds like you missed the pressure. It's a strange thing. The more the pressure, the better I seem to perform.

Hey everyone, it's Adam Grant. Welcome back to Rethinking, my podcast with Ted on the science of what makes us tick. I'm an organizational psychologist, and I'm taking you inside the minds of fascinating people who explore. And new ways of thinking. Soccer star David Beckham made his official debut when he was 17 years old, playing for Manchester United.

He became a national name in the UK when he scored a goal for midfield on opening day in 1996, and he was only 21. In 1998, he made international news at his first World Cup match, when he got a critical red card and England ended up losing the game. He went on to lead his teams to numerous titles, become runner-up for World Player of the Year, and be named one of the greatest living players by Pele. Last year, David was knighted in honor of his contributions to the beautiful game.

I had the chance to sit down with David at the 2026 World Economic Forum in Davos. We talked about pressure, confronting it, embracing it, and managing it during the toughest moments of his career. We also talked about competition. By his own admission, David does not like to lose. Even today. You beat me here. I did. Why? I came so early. I was twenty minutes early. I'm not always just on time and before that. Uh and my wife.

kind of picks me at it all the time in all honesty. She's always saying, We're gonna be too early, we're gonna be too early. But I got brought up by parents that always made sure that we were on time. I got bought up when I was in Manchester United by an incredible coach that always made sure that we're not just on time but twenty minutes before time. So I'm sorry I got here before you but not sorry. I I can't believe it because

I am always late and I made sure to not be late this morning and I still couldn't get here ahead of time. Well, you definitely wasn't late. I was just really early, so I apologize. I'm rejecting your apology. What what happens if you're on time or late? Does it bother you? Um, I am very aggravated if I'm late. It upsets me. I worry about what people think about me if I turn up late, so that's why I'm always very early. Aren't you past being judged now?

Really don't like. So I'm always on time for everything. Whether it's Sunday lunches, whether it's a drink with friends, whether it's school runs, I'm always on time.

We are not gonna get along then. So David, I wanna talk about sport. We have the World Cup on the horizon and I think it's it's something that really has the potential to bring the world together in our divided time. Can you talk to me a little bit about the power of of sport in general and football in particular in 2026? you know, people, children, communities, villages, you know, and that's what that's what sport does, not just soccer, football.

Um that's what sport does in general. So I think that This is a real opportunity. You know, we see it every four years. Every time a World Cup comes around. you know, cities change, countries change, people change, people have the opportunity to go and have fun, they're passionate about it. And I think that this is a real opportunity again for sport to prove that, you know.

I hope so. I was surprised going into the Paris Olympics. I I read a bunch of research showing that we think the Olympics are gonna bring people together and they actually tend to divide countries. People love their own nation more, but they also start to hate their rival nations a little bit more. Um, that seems like a a lost opportunity. What's your take on how to prevent that from happening? No, I think there's always gonna be rivalry in sport. I think it it divides people but

in a way that brings people together. You know, I think that you have a stadium full of eighty thousand fans, forty thousand are for one country, forty thousand for the other country. Yes There will be rivalry because one set of fans want their team to win and the other set of fans want their team to win. So there's always gonna be that rivalry. I think it's a good thing.

You know, we always talk about moments of people disagreeing. And and this is a moment where fans disagree, but then they're coming together in a stadium where they're celebrating, you know, I saw this. in the last World Cup, fans coming together. And I think that that's a such an important part of sport and that's why I always talk about sport being such

A um brings a r a real unity and soccer is is is that moment. You know, soccer is it's gonna be viewed by almost four and a half, five billion people. And you know, when you talk about the magnitude of that. you know, and and what that does to communities and what that does to people. You know, that's the biggest thing that that people want these days. Did you just call football soccer? I I think I might have said it a couple of times. So Is that a verbal tick?

What's happening here? You know what? It was always football to me until I moved to America and then I had to adjust. Um I had to adjust, but I still obviously know that it is football but So what role did fans play in your motivation throughout your career? They played a big motivation, you know, to have fans in the stadium. It's what we realised through lockdown, you know, when you had two teams playing against each other with an empty stadium, you know, it felt soulless. You know, you have

All different fans. I think more so in America than anywhere in the world. You know, when I moved to America and played in LA in two thousand and seven, I noticed that there was young kids. you know, um people that were twenty years old, people that were forty years old, people that were eighty years old, you know, all turning up as a family to go and watch their team play. For my motivation, you know, I miss

the entertainment side. I miss walking out onto that pitch and performing. And people turn around to me all the time and say, you know, what do you miss about the game? I miss everything about it. It almost sounds like you missed the pressure.

Um, I loved the pressure. You know, I I went through a a stage where in nineteen ninety eight where I'd been sent off and I was kind of getting a little bit of abuse from fans, from media, from people. But in all honesty, the thing that I knew what to do best is to put my head down to work as hard as I can and then results would come and and thankfully they ditched.

There's a big nature nurture debate when it comes to handling performance pressures. I think a lot of people believe you're just born with that ability or not. I'm thinking though there's some classic research in psychology showing that how you respond to pressure depends on your skill level. Where basically what happens is when you're under stress, that increases the probability of your dominant instinctive response.

And if you're not good at the task or the game, then your dominant response is to screw up. But if you're an expert or if you're highly practiced, your dominant response, the autopilot, is actually excellent. Okay. And so I think what that what that research at least would suggest is that over time you get better at handling pressure as your skill level improves. Agree or disagree. Um

I don't know, I was quite young when I first went through all of this. You know, I was twenty one years old, so that's pretty young. I never really questioned that I was good enough. But obviously doubts come into your mind at times and you wonder if you can get through certain situations with the pressure that was mounting on me at the time. So, you know, I relied on my wife, my family, my parents, my friends.

And that's really are my teammates. That's what I relied on to get me through the moments where I was doubting myself. So I agree but also disagree because I'd never been through anything like that before. What was the moment of peak doubt? When did you feel it most intensely? I think I had that intense feeling for probably four years. Four years? Yeah. And how old were you? Twenty-one. Jeez.

Dej, jag skulle ju köpa några nya palpställd för lagret. Det kanske blev lite mer grejer. De hade ju allt, hade en skribord, jag köpte en sån, och kontorstolar, och sen hade de en skit snygg typcontain. Vi har inredning för hela arbetsplatsen. Välkommen till AI Produktion. And tack für... Tack till elever och personer som hjälpte med videon! Villa skiffer som man kan se, och alla andra vanma kan se. Vi ska gåva på 90 20 900. Tack så att ni så snella. Brought to you by Wise.

People using money around the globe. With WISE, you can send, spend, and receive in over 40 currencies with no markups or hidden fees. Whether you're sending Spending rails and rio or In dollars for your side gig, you'll get the mid-market exchange rate on every transaction. Join 15 million customers internationally. Be smart. Get wise. Download the Or visit WISE.com, Ts and C supply. So you alluded to I think the red card in nineteen ninety eight, World Cup loss.

Set the scene a little bit for us on that. Uh what happened? What did it feel like? How did you deal with it? Okay. I went into the World Cup in nineteen ninety-eight and I'd played every game on the lead up to the World Cup. I go into the World Cup.

The coach at the time didn't think that my head space was right. So he dropped me for the first game, for the second game. And We won the first game, we were losing the second game, and then the third game was against Colombia, which was actually on my mum's birthday. And I remember going into this game really happy because, you know, I was back in the team. I scored a goal, my first goal for England in a World Cup.

was on my mum's birthday, I had had a a really good game. We won the game. We then progressed onto the next stage. So the next game was against Argentina. Obviously we talked about rivals earlier. There's there's not many bigger rivals than England, Argentina for many reasons. But That moment I go into the game, we were in good form, we were winning one zero, and then Argentina got a goal back. And towards the end of the first half, there was a player called Diego Simione.

And he was always one of these players that kind of You know, he was one of those players on the field that kind of aggravated, you know, the situations. So he was that player and he came right into the back of me, fell on top of me, and then he kind of brushed my head like that. And I felt that and I kind of just flicked my leg up, kind of and and and kicked him.

should never have done it. It was a mistake. It was one of the mistakes where I wished that I'd never done it. But I look back and I think everything happens for a reason. But that was what happened. So I got the red card and then after that I got probably three or four years of of abuse. But that fourth year I then became England captain, which I could never have dreamed of captain in my country. My dream was always to play for my country.

But I never saw myself as a leader, you know, at that time. But then I got that armburned and I had to turn into a leader overnight. I want to talk about that too. Before we go there. I I think what you're describing is a basic emotion regulation challenge, right? Like that that moment, you're you're probably not using your best higher higher level reasoning. So I suppose, you know, the red mist.

They called it the red mist. They always said that I had red mist. And and the red mist came and unfortunately it was on the biggest stage that you can have as a footballer. Or fortunately it shaped me as a player and as a person.

When I teach leaders and students to manage that red mist, I actually I use football as an example. I I like the Zidane headbutt moment. Yeah. Cause it it's just so extreme. Yeah. But my typical advice there is To recognize that you have some emotional triggers, some buttons that can easily get pushed, know what those are, and then build a script for what you're going to do when somebody pushes that button.

And I'm curious about whether you did anything along those lines. No. Not at all. Obviously not. But at at that moment in time, I didn't have time for that. You know, I'd been knocked over. My frustration came out straight away. And like I said, Do I wish it had never happened? Absolutely.

But it happened for a reason. It happened to shape me as a person, to shape my whole career, in all honesty. That seems like one of the few moments on a pitch that you don't train for. And I've often wondered if like would you stimulate those kinds of moments in practice? To actually give it. Absolutely not. No, never. Never. You just trusted yourself to act differently next time.

Absolutely. And and did I probably act in a way that I shouldn't have acted you know, a few years after that? Probably. Probably because I was a passionate player. You know, I was a passionate player on the field and when things upset me it was very clear that they upset me. But I learned to control a lot of the things over the years because I had to, you know, I had to become a different person or I had to become a different player.

I had to be in control as much as I can be of certain situations where I was put in because every time that I stepped out onto a field, you know, ninety eight percent of the stadium was booing me. because they were either England fans or rival fans. That was what it was like then. People felt that I'd let my country down. People th felt that I'd let my family down. And in a way I kind of had because of my reactions. But

I always think it's not about what actually happens in that moment. It's about how you react after and how you handle those moments. I I'm reminded of a scene in Love actually where uh I get I get mentioned in Love actually. In a particular way. Hugh Grant is describing what makes England a great country and he names your left foot and your right foot. And I when I was watching that movie I actually didn't even know that I was in it.

So that was uh that's a very nice thing. Was that a marker of shifting perception of in that moment or in that time period, people starting to come around and support you more? Um No. I think that the the marker of having more support and people coming around at the time was three years after that I scored a goal against Greece. I'll set the scene again.

So there was a game against Greece at Old Trafford, where Manchester United played. That was my team that I played for at the time. And uh we went into this game and we only needed to draw the game. So a draw was perfectly okay. The sun was shining. It was the perfect day. We go into this game and we play terrible. But I was playing really well. It was one of the one of the best games that I had and I never say this about myself as a player.

It's probably one of the best games that I've played in football. And we go one nil down, we then get a goal back, which was w one of my assists to Teddy Sheringham. They grease thing go up the other end and they score a goal. There's three minutes left in the game. I've taken about eight free kicks so far, seven free kicks so far, and all miss. And then I get one more free kick at the end of the game with three minutes to go and I score.

And that goal took England through to the World Cup final. And that was the moment where everything changed for me. That was the moment where I think people I mean, I always get emotional talking about it because it's the moment where I realise people forgave me. You know, my mum and dad were sat in the director's box at Old Trafford. And they said they've never seen a reaction from people

after I scored that goal. People were crying, you know, young kids, grandmas and grandpas, they were crying. They just burst out crying because the the raw emotion. And that's what I'm saying about Football as a game, you know, it unites people, like no other sport in my opinion. So did you feel in the years before that like you had to earn a whole nation's forgiveness? Yes. Wow. Yeah. And how did you deal with that pressure?'Cause that's a different kind of weight to carry. Um

I d I actually don't know. I don't know how I dealt with it. I just did what I know best, which is to work hard and put my head down and and and stay and stay quiet. You know, Sir Alex Ferguson, who was my coach at the time when I got sent off in the World Cup for he was the Manchester United coach and he was the first to call me the next morning.

And he said, David son, how are you? And I said, uh, not great, boss. And he said, uh, don't worry, go away for a couple of weeks, rest with your family, come back and we'll be there for you and we'll support you. And and really, without Sir Alex Ferguson, without my teammates, without the support of Manchester United fans.

I remember every game that I played that whole season, when we played at home and we played at Old Trafford, every time I went over to take a corner kick, you know, the whole side of the stand stood up. And and that is the reason why I got through that difficult time. Ferguson is regarded as one of the greatest coaches ever.

Beyond the importance of hard work and just the basic support that he gave you, what was your greatest lesson from him? It's hard to step away and not not mention the hard work because that what is what he was all about. Um, discipline, mentality. um respect um and he gave us all of those things. All of those things. And he wasn't preparing us as

football players. He was preparing us for life. It didn't matter who you were, it didn't matter what you'd achieved, it didn't matter where you come from. Everyone was treated the same. And you gained respect only by working hard. I was playing in an era where, you know, th therapy wasn't really a thing. I'm not saying it was frowned upon to kind of discuss it, but I grew up, you know, in a household where If I did have a disappointment, my dad would just say, Okay, go out there and do it again.

Until I got it right. And I and I'm all for that. I'm all for people discussing their problems and talking about their problems and trying to find a solution. But for me personally, my way was to put my head down and work harder.

Are you saying that if you were twenty-one today, you would be in therapy? Um Probably not. Probably not. I w I I find it hard to believe that I would go into therapy through something like this with the upbringing that I had because there was a steeliness that my dad installed into me without even knowing that he was protecting me for the future, which he probably didn't know at the time. But as a father

What was the most helpful thing a family member said to you during those four years of self-doubt? You know what someone said to me once? The hardest thing is to say nothing. And even though I was going through what I was going through. It would have been very easy to come out fighting. It would have been very easy to come out and say something and add to the speculation or add to the conversation.

But the best thing I did was I went silent. I went silent and I worked harder and that was the right thing to do. What what was your motivation to get through that doubt? What were you hoping to achieve? I always want to win.

And that was always on the field. I wanted to win. I wanted to show people. I wanted to you know, I suppose the critics that were turning round and saying that I shouldn't be playing in the Premier League anymore, I shouldn't be playing in England, maybe I'm gonna go and play somewhere else abroad.

My motivation was to kind of prove everyone wrong, to prove everyone that I was still the player that wanted to play for my country, that wanted to play for Manchester United, that wanted to play in England. That was my motivation. Also, I you know, I'm part of a a sport where it's a team sport. So even though I was going through difficult times, I still had to perform. I still had to go out on that pitch with all the things that were being said about me, you know, in the stands.

on the media, on the T V, on the radio, I still had to go out and perform. You know, we went to on to achieve things that the first time to win a treble, you know, we won the Champions League, we won the FA Cup and we won The Premier League. We did that, funnily enough. The year after I went through that. time. So in nineteen ninety eight I got the red card. In nineteen ninety eight, ninety nine season, we did the treble. And it was one of my best seasons as a footballer.

You just anticipated my next four questions. Sorry. No, it's it's good. What was a bigger motivator for you? Loving to win or hating to lose? Oh my goodness. Um I really don't like to lose. I really don't like to lose. But it happens. You know, I talk to kids about it all the time. You know, when I'm sat down and kids turn round to me and say, You've won all of these games, what is it like when you lose a game? It's it's one of the worst feelings in the world for me. You know, it it

depressing. Um, you wake up the next morning and you have this feeling in your stomach when you've lost a game. It doesn't matter what level I'm playing at, you know, whether I'm playing in a cup game, a friendly game, a World Cup game. If I win a game, I still feel the same. If I lose a game, I still feel the same. Is that true when you're playing other sports for fun? Yeah.

Oh yes ping pong for example. I am not good at losing ping pong. I am not good at losing basketball. I am not good at losing a game of uh checkers. Do you ever throw the board when you lose? Oh no, I'm not I'm not an aggressive person when I lose. I'm probably a sad person when I lose. Okay. So you just get depressed. I get depressed. All right. So you mentioned earlier that you didn't see yourself as a leader for a long time. When did that shift and why?

It shifted when I got given the armband. You didn't have any sense of yourself as a leader before that? No. Why not? Um because I was brought up in an era where captains they shouted at players. They led with not aggression, but they led by vocalizing in that way. And I was never that person. I'm a very quiet person. I'm quite shy. Um and I'm not very good at shouting at people. I really not. So to be given the captain's armband at that time

Again, it was a decision that was quite criticized. You know, am I ready to be captain of my country? But with that, you know, your responsibilities change. You know, you have to become a leader. And I was a different leader. My way of leading was to work harder than anyone else, to turn up before everyone else, to leave.

after everyone else, then I always believed that that was my strongest way of leading. So I I I kind of grew into that moment. And I'm very proud that I got the opportunity to captain my country for six years. Dej, jag skulle ju köpa några nya palpställt i lagret. Det kanske blev lite mer grejer. De hade ju allt, man hade en skribord, jag köpte en sån här, och kontorstolar, och så hade de en skitsnygg. Vi har inredning för hela arbetsplatsen. Välkommen till avnitt. You buy wise.

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All right, you ready for a lightning round? Oh my goodness, okay. We have some quick fire questions. Oh my goodness. First one is very uh it's like ten thirty, right? So it's quite early for quick fires. How many hours have you been awake now? Quite a few. Okay. I think you can handle it. You love the pressure. We'll see. We'll see. We'll find out. You'll see how much I like pressure. Okay. Who do you think is the most underrated footballer? Oh my goodness. Do you know Gary Neville?

Gary Neville was my best man at my wedding. He was the player that played in the position behind me from when we were fifteen years old till I was twenty seven years old. But Gary was one of these players that he always talks about it, him not having as much talent as many other players. I disagree. I think he he had great talent. But he believes that he wasn't as talented, so he had to work even harder. So I'd have to say Gary Neville.

You're hosting a dinner party with anyone alive or dead. Who are you inviting? Jack Nicholson. What's the worst advice you've ever gotten? Try this. It tastes really good. Was there a a dish in particular? Uh well I'm not a parsnips fan. Funnily enough, and I grow parsnips in my garden and I'm not a parsnips fan. And when I was very young, my mum was like

Try this, it's really good. And it really wasn't. We know not what not to put on your lunch now. I put a bit of honey on them so it tastes a lot better. All right. What's something you've changed your mind about recently? I'm gonna say hairstyle because I've changed my mind a lot over the years about my hairstyles.

And recently I thought, why don't I go back to that hairstyle? And then all of a sudden I went back to it, I was like, That was a really bad idea. So yeah, hairstyle. Some of us don't have the luxury of making that choice. Well, I'm sorry about that. What's the question you have for me as a psychologist?

Do you enjoy what you do? I love what I do. I think I have the best job on earth. Is it always what you wanted to do? No. No, I didn't even know this was a career. What's organizational psychology? Yeah. And if you was to change your job, what would you go into? Ooh. I think it would be fun to write sci fi or I'd actually love to try coaching a sports team. Favorite sci fi movie.

Favorite sci-fi movies. We've changed positions here. Who's in charge here? Favorite sci-fi movie, Interstellar, The Martian. There's so many. It's hard to choose. Okay. I have to ask you. The Netflix stuff. For me, the most memorable moment was, and I'm sure you've been asked about this a lot, but I would love to hear the narrative behind it.

Your wife is being asked about her upbringing and she starts to talk about how you were both raised blue collar and you're not in the scene. Yeah. And you poke your head in. Yeah. And what did you say and why? Well, you know, if the funny thing about that was I wasn't meant to be at the house at the time. I was in the kitchen making a coffee. I was just about to leave the house and I had a set of headphones on listening to her.

And soon as I heard her start saying, you know, we're both from working class backgrounds, I thought, no, no, no, no. This is my opportunity. So I poked my head in and I was like, be honest. Be honest. You got driven to school in a Rolls Royce. That is not a working class background. I thought in some ways that was the most revealing moment in terms of understanding your psyche, because we got to see the quiet determination.

And I thought this is David's version of yelling. Yeah. That is that really is my version of yelling. That's as loud as it gets. And why was it so important to you to set the record straight on that? Because I want people to know that I'm the one from the working class background, not my wife who got driven to school in a Rolls Royce. No, all joking aside. It's not about honesty, it was a competition.

Absolut. Everything's a competition. Even at home. Even with my wife. Even making a coffee, everything's a competition. Okay, so who won the competition in our conversation today? Uh well I think you did because all the questions were great. I think I answered pretty well. So David Beckham, thank you for joining Rethinking and on Air Davos. You're welcome. Thank you. Rethinking is hosted by me, Adam Grant. The show is produced by Ted with Cosmic Standard.

Our producer is Jessica Glazer. Our editor is Alejandra Salazar. Our engineer is Asia Pilar Simpson. Our technical director is Jacob Winnick. And our fact-checker is Paul Durbin. Our team includes Eliza Smith, Roxanne Hilash, Van Ben Chang, Julia Dickerson, Tonsika Sungmanivong, and Whitney Pennington. Original music by Hans Dale Su and Alison.

I love Jack Nicholson. When I first moved to LA, I was in Hollywood, I was going to watch the Lakers play and I knew Jack always went to the Lakers games. And I I thought, I wonder if I get to meet him at any point. So I'm waiting for the game to start. I think, okay, I just need to go to the toilet. So I'm waiting at the toilet and then all of a sudden the door opens and Jack Nicholson walks out. And he goes, Oh, hi, David. And I'm like, Oh my God. Jack knows who I am.

Du, jag skulle köpa några nya palpstrält i lagret. Det kanske blev lite mer grejer. De hade ju allt, hade en skribord, jag köpte en sån, och kontorstolar, och så hade de en skit snygg tippkontainer. Vi har inredning för hela arbetsplatsen. Välkommen till AI-produkten! याल्स करें Jag älskar krispet. Eller någon annan av våra. Jag har fått in lemon med på skön och barn. Hej, Alexandra Rapoport här. Jag spelar Veronika Gren i serien Veronika. Jag undrar om du har sett mild.

Vilket det är vi har att göra med. Som är tillbaka med sessong 3 Den här utredningen som jag håller på med, den börjar bli lite problematisk för oss. Streamar Veronika försong tre nu, bara på Sky Showtime.