Welcome to Working Towards Our Purpose, a podcast that offers a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone out there that's heard that voice in the back of their head asking for something more, it's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino, and join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their own purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired, and hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose.
Joining me today on Working Towards Our Purpose is Dave Phelan, who is one of the founders of Loople Mobile, which is an app that connects customers to restaurants and bars. He is also the co founder of Founders Approach, where he helps small businesses build and develop apps and websites. Dave is also a podcaster, and he hosts the show Why I Quit, where he interviews people who have quit their nine to fives. Me and Dave met through a friend, Cody, so shout out to
Cody if he's listening. And Dave, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. I definitely appreciate it and look forward to chatting about a bunch of yeah. Yeah. So if you first want to start, tell us a little bit about yourself, like maybe where you grew up and where you went to school and college. Yeah, absolutely. So I grew up outside the Philadelphia area, went to college at Susquehanna University, was studying business. Didn't really have
a particular path. I knew I exactly wanted to go down. I knew I wanted to be involved in business. And after college, I got my first job in the corporate world, working for an engineering firm. I worked on the management side, kind of wore a bunch of different hats. Learned a lot there. But during that time, myself and one of my best friends from college were always bouncing around ideas. We always wanted to start something and didn't really
know what that was going to be. And eventually we had an idea that stuck, and both of us quit our full time jobs to take the leap. And that was the initial app that we built out called Loople. And essentially the concept know, my co founder at the time, Phil, he was working as a sales rep for Boston Beer. So Sam Adams, Angry Orchard, he was going into these bars and restaurants on a daily basis, selling in these specials
to sell his product. And a lot of these bars and restaurants are offering a daily special, essentially as advertisement to draw in people. But many times that information that special is not actually getting to the consumers before they walk in the door. A lot of times you're downselling them once they get in. And so some bars and restaurants would post on social media. Other people would have it on their website. There was
not really, like, one place where you could find all that information. So we wanted to build out an application to do that and essentially built out the first version. Iterated a bunch ended up growing to over 50,000 users and it was a really cool experience, a good learning experience. It didn't fully work out the way we wanted it to from like a monetization perspective, but it also helped us pivot and kind of lead us into different businesses of where we ended up
today. Interesting. So yeah, how did you first get into the app building world? Did you have like a tech background? Did you learn as you went or did your partner have some sort of experience or how did that process work? Yeah, great question. So neither of us had any tech experience whatsoever. Neither of us took any tech classes. We were more on the finance and sales business side of it. But we did a deep dive into teaching ourselves as much as we could about
it and kind of like really understanding the experience. We started off with wanting to be able to find someone else to build it so we could focus on growing the business. I think we knew how much time it was going to take just from an operational and business development perspective to kind of run and grow and scale a startup and we wanted to find someone who's going to be the right fit for us.
So we went through the classic looking at every software development agency near you getting quotes and with bootstrapping this, we were getting quotes for six figures to build out an MVP. And we were like, well that's never going to happen. And then tried to find a
CTO, someone who's willing to work for equity. But a lot of times it's really hard to find someone who is on the same wavelength as you of wanting to buy in as much to the ideas that you want to and being willing to work for equity, essentially, like not pay. Because a lot of times, if there's a developer talented enough, they can be off making great money elsewhere. And so it's really hard to
find that person. And then we had heard a lot of horror stories about experiences overseas with people that just got burned and didn't spend a lot of money but didn't get what they wanted and people that they didn't necessarily trust. And so we spent a ton of time and due diligence until we found a team overseas that we were comfortable with and it was a learning experience for sure. There's a ten
hour time difference, there's a language barrier. We had never project managed anything before and so I think a lot of YouTube videos, a lot of books, a lot of just like learning from failures and we ended up building our own project management process that allowed us to efficiently manage the team. And we got to a point where we got our first version out. We were doing iterations every two weeks with new features and updates based on
talking to our customers and we were continually learning. And then we kind of took that process of what we learned and then we used that to replicate that, to build apps and websites for other startups in eventually what became our next company founders approach. Interesting. Yeah. I'm very interested in your story and how you kind of just figured out how to do
it right. And I guess one thing that kind of comes to mind. I remember reading The Four Hour Work Week, and there's like one chapter or something in there that says they can even give you a website. I think of go overseas and get work done there because it's cheaper. And where did you get the idea to go overseas to try to get some of the app to be developed? Did it come from that book specifically? I honestly think that is a great book, but I think if I had to guess where it came
from, it was Google. I mean, I think we were Googling just best ways to find developers, and I think it was purely price point. We were bootstrapping this on our own, especially for the first version. And we needed to find something that was affordable, that allowed us to quit our jobs, but still have runway to be able to see if we could make this thing work. And so really it boiled down to price
point. The only price point that was going to work was overseas. And then it just got to a point where, what's the best way to find overseas developers? And we ended up using a platform called Upwork. It was called something else at the time they got bought out. They're now called Upwork, but it allows you I mean, we probably did 30, 40 different interviews until we finally found the one that was like the right one for us.
And so I think the beauty of the Internet nowadays is that you can find all the information that you want, but I think you need to spend a ton of time kind of like curating and vetting and figuring it out. Because I think for every developer you find that works, it's not like it's the same process for each one. We've
also had developers and agencies we've worked with that haven't worked out. And so I think being willing to be open to opportunities and try different things, but being ready to know with gut intuition that this might not be the right option and then when you do find the right option, kind of double down on that and kind of take it from there.
Yeah, I think that's good advice for sure. So I also want to ask you, what was the transition like to go from a corporate job that maybe you had a degree in or you went to school and to quitting and then kind of doing your own thing? Were there any challenges or struggles that you immediately faced or was it something that you were so fired up about figuring out that you just kind of went all in on it?
Yeah, it was really tough. I would say initially quitting my job was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. And I think more from a perspective of I felt like I was letting my managers and coworkers down. I mean, I think I had built such good relationships there that I just was super nervous about the process of
leaving. And so I think even just getting to the point of quitting, I think there were two separate times I went into my boss's office to quit that I actually didn't end up doing it and I go back in another time because I was just so nervous about it. I think that to me was definitely the hardest part. And I think there was so much unknown as a startup mobile app. We
had no salary, we had no nothing. It's really a lottery ticket to a degree of like this thing's either going to be worth zero or it's going to be worth a lot of money and there's really not much in between it. So you're really taking a risk and taking a gamble. And so I think there was a lot of excitement in terms of what could it be? We could build the type of company we wanted to build. We were able to learn a
ton. You go from working in a corporate company where you have a very specific defined role and everyone has their different roles, to a startup where you're doing everything from legal to accounting to sales to project management. So you're wearing all these different hats, so you're learning a lot. So I think that part of it's super exciting and the excitement of the wins of the startup. You have your first download, your first positive review to your first sale, and you have these things that
are such like mile markers and they're such highs. And so I think in entrepreneurship, what I always tell people is it's like the highest of highs and lowest of lows. You have these moments that are so incredibly fulfilling, but very quickly it could be the same day or the next day. You have these lows that are extremely low and so you have I remember times where I literally had less than $10 left in my bank account.
I was on food stamps. I was just fighting to survive, just trying to pay my bills and do all these things just to keep the startup going. And I think you have these moments where you're like, I wouldn't be where I'm at today without that, but you kind of have to sacrifice to get through it. And so I think overall, I don't think I was super confident that I'm like, this is going to be worth millions of dollars, but I also don't think I recognized how hard the path was going
to be. But I think having a co founder who's extremely supportive having a spouse who is extremely supportive throughout, it can help weather those extreme highs and lows to get to a point where you figure out what works and figure out how you can make a living doing it, and then you kind of just keep grinding down that path, essentially. I was going to ask you about that too. The fact of having a co founder and somebody in business with a partner and how does
that kind of help drive you? Because you kind of have accountability with each other. Right. Do you think that that has been one of the things that has helped you keep going? When the times got tough, was the two of you working together on this one project? Yeah, absolutely. 100%. I would say if I was at this solo, there's no way I would still be going at it. I think Phil and I talk about this all the time. You hold the other person grounded, accountable. There's moments where
each person is the other person's support. There are some days where I'm like, this is not worth it, this is brutal. And he's able to kind of be that soundboard, that voice of reasoning, and vice versa. And I think having a person where you can kind of diversify your skill set and have your lanes, where there are certain things that he takes on, there are certain things that I take on, and being able to rely on each other for that and then just like the support system in itself, because it's
super isolating. I mean, I think you can go from a company where you have hundreds or thousands of coworkers to being an entrepreneur where you have none overnight. And a lot of times nowadays you're working remote and so you can be working from home, you can be by yourself. And so having another person to rely on is super important. And that's not to say you can't do it alone. I think
there's a lot of people that do it very successfully. But I think if you are a solo entrepreneur, it's even more important to rely on your partner, your friends, your family, because even if you don't have that co founder, you need to kind of find that support somewhere. And so being able to look for that and find people like that in your life, I think is super impactful to be actually able to continue the path of entrepreneurship.
Yeah, I think that's a really good point, and it's definitely something I've kind of experienced myself too. I know we had talked about a little bit in the past, but when I first quit, it was during the pandemic. I was living alone, so much isolation, and it kind of got to a point where I was like, all right, something's got to change because this isn't going to be able to keep going the way it is.
And so yeah, I think it's very important to have whether it's co founder or people in your networking circle or like you said, family or friends and things like that. I did want to ask you about your relationship with Phil and how you found out that you guys would be good business partners. You said you were friends first. Do you think that that's a good thing? Because a lot of times you hear people saying don't go into
business with your friends because then you won't be friends anymore. What's your stance on mean? You know, you have no idea how you're going to work with someone until you actually do. But I think we had a lot of conversations early on about a lot of hard things like what is expectations around work, around money, even like equity conversations. And I think the biggest thing without a doubt is communication in terms of open
communication. Because I think we've been extremely lucky to have been in business for eight years together and we've had a very successful relationship and we've been able to navigate business and friendship. That doesn't mean that it's all easy times though. I think something that we've learned is figuring out how to be open and honest about having difficult conversations, how to have that conversation, how to respect the other person's feeling and then also how to separate
friendships with business. I think that's one of the hardest parts. And I think there are times where we physically say we're not talking about work outside of work as a friend, how are you? Or you have these moments where it's like you need to figure out ways to separate work and business. But also sometimes you just realize that those things are intertwined and they are
tied together. And so I think being thoughtful and empathetic of the other person and just having open conversations can help build a successful relationship like that. But also I think you need to know how your personalities and skill set mesh with someone you're looking to work with as well. Because I think there are times where there could be someone that you could have great open communication with
and you have a really great relationship. But if your personality types or your skill sets would kind of overlap in terms of the type of business that you're going to run, sometimes that could be a recipe for disaster. And so I think before ever jumping in with a specific person is just like aligning on expectations. I think that's super huge talking about how you're going to communicate.
And I think there is never really a perfect answer but I think kind of going with your gut of like if you've talked about it enough and you think you're both aligned, don't be afraid to make the jump just because you're friends. But also sometimes if you have a gut feeling that there are some things that aren't aligned and you have different working styles that you don't think you can get over. I think sometimes you just have
to be aware of that too. That all sounds like really good advice and something that I think about more and more as I find my way through entrepreneurship and think about doing new projects with people because I've been pretty much a solo entrepreneur up until this point and kind of feel a little bit of the limitations of it. So as someone who's kind of maybe newer into that world, I
think that's I appreciate your words for sure. I do want to kind of jump into your next venture and maybe talk about the second sort of transition of you going from loophole to founders approach. And you do that with Phil as well, your business partner. You guys stayed partners through that. So basically we reached a point about two years in that with Lupal, we just weren't making enough money to sustain the business. And I think
that the business model was just not there. Like we hadn't paid ourselves and bills were running out. And we actually had a potential investor who was interested in investing in us and he ended up pulling out and decided not to invest, which we were super bummed about because we had goals of going nationwide and we wanted to hire people and we had all these things we wanted
to work through. But I think looking back, it turned out to be a blessing in disguise because I think we were always going to struggle with the business model. I think that's a lot of times what people in the consumer app space fight where it's like when you are in a revenue model that's based on digital advertisements, you either need a crazy user base or a specific niche type of advertising customer that you can sell to
and it's very difficult. And we fought that battle for two years and then eventually we just got to a point where we couldn't do that anymore. But that investor who pulled out asked us separately that if we'd be interested in building an app for him. And it was something that we actually honestly weren't thrilled about, but we were like, hey, maybe we can pay rent this month if we do this thing. And so we did that and then we had another person come to us and we did
another project and then it just started snowballing. And I think we found this market where there were a lot of startups and small businesses out there that couldn't afford us development but didn't know where to go overseas. And so we focused on coming at it with an entrepreneurial mindset of partnering with these types of clients and almost being like a stand in CTO of like we will manage every aspect of the build from turnkey, from design and idea
through getting it live. And we can provide hell of a lot more affordable prices in the US. And we're going to focus on customer service and giving you a great experience along the way. And we've now been doing that full time since 2016 and we've probably built over 200 different products between apps and websites for different companies. And, yeah,
it's been a really good experience. I think we've been exposed to some amazing companies who are doing some amazing things and it's something different every day. And we've built our own overseas team that's been great as well, of like, we have reliable talent that we can trust and count on and then we have our team here of project managers, so it's Phil, myself, and then we also have another partner, Cole. And so it's really the three of us that kind of work with these clients know, to really
understand what their development needs are and bring them to life. And so it's been a lot of fun kind of building that and something we never expected, but it's something we really enjoy. That's interesting. I imagine letting that go and moving on to something new must have been something you had to get over mentally. And how was that process for you? I guess, like letting go of the old idea. Yeah, I mean,
honestly, that was super difficult. That was another one of definitely the lower points, professionally, personally, admitting that this thing that you've poured blood, sweat and tears into was not going to work. And then also we had raised a small friends and family round and we had to talk
to our friends and families and investors and talk to them. We were shutting down and it was just like just some of the worst conversations and I think that at that time, I think we had Grinded for like two years straight. We were tired, we were poor, and I think we got to a point where we just needed to get financially secure. And so I think sometimes people start businesses because there's an idea that they're passionate
about and this is what they're going to do. But we were at a time where we had very little options and we didn't want to go back to a nine to five. And so we were like, let's see if we can make this work. And so I think we came at it from a more desperate, for lack of a better word, perspective, but we knew we had skills and we knew we could build it because we'd done it before. So I think we were pretty confident in what we could offer and then just to see if it
would work. And I think I would say as we were able to start gaining more clients and started getting positive feedback and started getting new clients, we were able to see like, we were on the right track here. And I think it made it easier to focus on the fact that even though the original idea didn't work, we could kind of take what we learned and we can still run a business without having to go back to a nine to five. And I think that at the end of the day was
super intriguing to us. And so I think that was kind of like the turning point of like, okay, now that we have some validation here, how do we scale this thing to be able to do this sustainably long term? Right? So you could see the past heartaches contribute to something new in the future and therefore it wasn't like a waste of time, it was like, well you learned a lot and now you're using what you learned to this
new thing. That's really cool. So in going along with that, how did you find new clients once you figured out you could do it for the first one? What was your marketing approach? Or was it word of mouth or how did you go about acquiring your new clients? Yeah, I think something that we're pretty proud of to this day is that we haven't spent any money
on marketing. I think we started in the beginning so focused on just kind of our network of people, and from those initial clients, we were getting referrals to do more work, and then we just built these super strong relationships. And so I think we were able to find clients of just it was everything from referrals from past clients to us reaching out to our network, just telling them what we're doing now, and people being like, oh, I know this person who's looking for
that, and it just kind of snowballed on itself. And so I think at the end of the day, that's not a fully sustainable model that can only take you so far. But it's kept us busy and I think that's something that we talk to people about a lot. Is there's a real power in your network? And don't be afraid to talk about what you do because you never know who needs the services that you provide. And I think I don't like social media. I haven't had any social media in the past five
years. I deleted everything out, I hadn't had anything. The only thing I have left is a LinkedIn, which arguably is social media. But I don't like posting on LinkedIn. I don't like kind of like self promoting, but I think it's been super powerful in terms of even just starting a podcast talking about what we do with our company. We've gotten tons of clients just from friends, family and second 3rd connections being like, oh
that's awesome, I didn't know you did that. You should talk to this person, they're looking for this. And so I think there's a good way to do it and a bad way to do it. But I think I always tell people a lot of times people are a little hesitant to post about what they do, but I think it's a really good thing to not only tell people what you do, but remind them. And I think if you do it in a genuine and authentic way, I think people are willing to go
out of their way to help you. Don't be afraid to. You have an agency of services, business, even a startup idea. It doesn't even need to be clients. You can ask friends and family for five star reviews on your product and that small thing can help boost you up the list in Google. And now all of a sudden, you're getting double the clicks that you were. And so I think a lot of people are
willing to help, support, and there's a lot of different ways to do it. And so I think you can get creative on different ways to ask for help and not to be afraid to do. I I agree with that. And I have this one friend who he does a lot of different things and he has a lot of friends who do cool creative sorts of things. His name is Josh and he's
really good about lifting up others. And I think that there's also a really good, I don't know, call it karma or whatever, but when you're always supporting other people and then you now have something to have others support, everybody kind of shows up and supports you in that way because you have been there in the past. So I think that that's something to think about as you're starting your own things. It's like, well, you've been there for other people, so now it's kind of
time to ask for the help, right? I know that's something that I've always struggled with is asking for help, but I think that that's something that you can do more often. So let's talk about your podcast. I want to get into your podcast and how you started it and why you started it. I know you're almost like 50 episodes in now, which is significant for a podcaster. So talk to us about how you started that and what was the idea
in starting it? It was an idea I had in my head for a while, like probably going back to 2018, I really got into listening to podcasts and I think that was a huge learning experience for me. And especially on the entrepreneur side, there's so many great podcast resources out there, especially for people looking for some inspiration. And sometimes, as we talked about earlier, it can be isolating. There's some ways you can really resonate with people's stories. And so I got super
hooked on some of the original guy raz. How I built this, where they focus on original founder stories, but they focus on a perspective of talking about the early days and the hard things. They went through, the failures they went through, and what that led to, where it's like, I don't particularly like or find valuable when they're telling stories or doing interviews
that they're just talking about. All the good things. I think telling the story about the journey of how they get there makes it more realistic and you can resonate with like, oh, you can pick up on things that's helpful of how they got to this point. And I think something that I found was that the majority of rhetoric on social media about quitting was very much so, like, quit your job and start this Amazon FBA, and here's how you can make a million dollars in six
months. And it was just this rhetoric that was very get rich quick. It seemed like very cringey. And there wasn't a whole lot out there with people telling real stories about quitting their job of what was the first year like, what was it like without a paycheck? What was it like without health insurance? When did you first feel financially stable with running your business? What was it like just talking to your boss to quit? And so
I hadn't found any content based around that. And so that was kind of like the initial idea and then basically had always wanted to do that, but just didn't have the time, didn't focus in on it. COVID Hit and Phil Cole and I were chatting and we were talking about, hey, what are some different side ideas we can try? And that one came up and neither of us had any experience editing, posting, hosting, doing anything with the podcast. I've never done any interviews and so I think we were
excited about a new learning experience. So kind of dove in to understand even what microphone to use, how do you set up interviews, how do you record, how do you edit, how do you post? And I think it was like a really good learning experience. And then also just got to talk to some amazing people, just met some incredible people who had some incredible stories and just wanted to tell them. And so, yeah, I think we're 47 episodes in now and it's been a
really good experience. I think it's helped me grow my network. I think we've gotten projects out of it. We've made amazing connections from people who are just like, good people to talk to. And I've learned a ton that I think we can use for things down the road. So, yeah, it's been a fun experience. Yeah, definitely. I think that's one of the maybe hidden values of a podcast that sometimes people don't see right off the bat. The first thing to think about is downloads and like, oh,
I could sell ads now because I have so many downloads. But I think the connections part of it is like the biggest piece because you don't have to have a lot of listeners in order to make connections with your guest or even just a few listeners here and there who reach out to you and tell you that it was impactful. I think especially when you're podcasting and talking about your business. It's such a natural way, like you're saying it's not cringey. It's the opposite of that.
It's like a natural way to tell people what you do and to just talk about the things that you can do. So that way you kind of naturally get a flow of people to come towards you who know who you are because they've been listening to you. And that's something that I think is like a secondary benefit that you don't really think of when you first start a podcast. So I'm glad you were able to articulate it in that way. So can you define success for
me? Because I know that a lot of people have a different version of success. And as you shared some of your story with us, there was a time when you were looking to get your idea going, and then you hit a wall and you need money, right? Money is always a part of it. Can you define today, I guess, what success means for you? Yeah, I think that is such a good I think, you know, to preface it, I think it's going to be very different for each person. And I think that that
benchmark constantly changes. And I think something that Phil Cole and I talk about all the time is that we live in a society where that benchmark is continually it's always pushing forward, and sometimes it can be super tough because it's hard to celebrate wins when you're always thinking what's next? And so even if you're like, oh, you set a goal for you want to have X number of sales in a specific year. You raise your expenses to hit that. And so
you're like, you need to hit the next thing the next year. And sometimes it's like you don't stop and look back and think about like, wow, we've done some amazing things. But I think at the end of the day, the way I try to think about it is I try to think about the priorities I have for my life in general and then how work integrates with that. And I think you have money of how much money do you need to make
to live the life that you want to live. You have time in terms of how do you want to spend your time, how much time do you want to spend at work versus off from work versus traveling? And you have lifestyle. What type of lifestyle do you want to live in terms of? There are some jobs that are super stressful. There are ones that
aren't stressful. And so I think they float right, and I think they change where there could be some years or months or weeks where money is the most important thing, and there could be other times where time off and travel is the most important thing. And so I think when I look at founders approach and businesses that I have something that is most important is flexibility and control of schedule to be able to control those priorities.
And so what I find as a definition of success is, do I have control over my life? And founders approach allows us to do that. Now in terms of like, we have money that we're bringing in and we have the ability to work from wherever we want, and we control our schedule when we're going to work. Now, on the flip side of that, we don't have a consistent salary. We have a lot of stresses. You have all the stresses of running your own business. And so I think anytime you look at
anything in terms of success, the grass is always greener on the other side. Right, but it's like kind of understanding what your priorities are to be able to figure out how to best align what you're doing on a daily basis to those priorities. Yeah, no, I appreciate that answer, and I think being realistic about what your expectations are, too. I think you mentioned earlier, I think there still is a lot of get rich quick schemes
online. I think I just saw one about Airbnb the other day about how you don't even need to own the property to make a ton of money. Yeah, I think the realistic part of it is definitely something to think about and know that things are going to take time to grow and that sort of thing. What's one thing that you'd say that you're struggling with as a business owner and maybe an area that you could maybe get some help in with your business? Where it's at now? Yeah, that's a great question.
I think part of that kind of ties into my previous answer before is we're spending a lot of time trying to figure out what do we want founders approach to be in one year, three years, five years, ten years. Right. And I think sometimes it's difficult to when you're thinking about something in both like a short term and a long term perspective of what do you want something to be? Because I think things change in terms of your needs, your lifestyle,
all of these things. And so I think what we're constantly trying to figure out with founders approach is like, how do we build a business that we want to work at today, but also set ourselves up long term that this is. So, you know, something we talked about a lot is that there's really three full time project managers here in the US. It's me, Phil, and Cole. We're
a super small team. We purposely decided not to scale and not to hire because we decided that we're going to be a lifestyle business in terms of, like, pick and choose the projects that we want to work on. And we're very intentional about that. We want to focus on that. But I think that also does create some stresses in terms of everything falls on us in terms of client management to running everything and we need to do that
from there. And so I think sometimes what gets hard is there are stresses in terms of the types of projects that we work on, of like, is this a good fit, are we working on the right types of projects, are we delivering the quality that we expect and all of these things? And so I think being able to manage a business that we are delivering quality for our clients, but that at the same time we are building it sustainable to want to
be able to run it long term, if that makes sense. Yeah, definitely longevity and making sure you're also thinking about the future. So yeah, no, I think that was a great answer. So last question here, as we're kind of running to the end of our time, what's one thing that you're excited about for the future or something that you're ready to get into? It seems like through talking the last 45 minutes that you always have this hunger, I guess, for
learning. And that seems to be something that has driven you, but what's something that you're excited about for the future? Yeah, that's a great question. And I just recently met up with Phil and Cole in person. We were all in separate places and we work remote, but we try to get together every three months or so to make sure we get some in person interactions. And part of that is kind of discussing like, hey, what's next, what do we want to
work on, what do we want this company to look like? And I think we're excited to keep delivering mobile and web projects for our clients that we're doing right now. I think that's kind of like our bread and butter. And I think we really enjoy working with startups and small businesses and kind of like helping bring ideas to life. And then I think in addition to that, being able to try different ideas and see if there's something that we get super
passionate about that we can also grow in tandem with that. And so part of that is we're going to continue with the Why Equip podcast. Pre COVID. We had started a company called Goworking that was remote trips for entrepreneurs where we had done three trips pre COVID. Where we had a group of twelve entrepreneurs. We would travel to a different city, we'd work together in those
places and then kind of explore around in the afternoons and night. And it was like a great way to meet new people and network with like minded individuals. Eventually we want to bring that back and I think we're always tinkering and experimenting with what types of ideas are we passionate about, how does it fit into founders approach and how does it fit into the business. And I think we're excited just to keep experimenting and I think I'm just excited to see
kind of where it. Goes, that sounds really interesting. I really like that idea. Traveling with entrepreneurs and going somewhere new to learn and to play at night and get to meet some new people. I think that's a cool idea. So you'll have to keep me posted on that if you ever bring that back. Thank you for joining us today and thank you for being so transparent about the struggles that also are part of your
journey. I think sometimes it's easy to only talk about the good things, so I appreciate you talking to us about the struggles as well and looking forward to what you have in store for the future. And thank you so much. Thank you. I really appreciate you having me on and I appreciate your show and what you're doing and I'm excited to check out more of your episodes too. I love the concept of what you're doing and yeah, thanks for thinking of me. Yeah, of course. Thank you
so much. Thanks for tuning in and listening to Working towards our purpose. If you like this episode, please share it with a friend and don't forget to subscribe for more episodes. You our.