Closet

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Greetings Adventurers is the longest running Dungeons & Dragons actual play comedy podcast. that has been putting out episodes each and every week since 2012. And we think you'd love it, but don't take our word for it, take theirs. The thing I love most about Greetings Adventures is the...

interactive community. I've been listening for 10 years, and now I'm a sophomore in college. The only podcast I've ever listened to for that long. There's nothing better. There's no limit on what might happen, so just be prepared. Download Greetings Adventurers wherever you listen to podcasts. Can't wait to see the next episode. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. This is a Lip Media Podcast.

We say that's fierce, so sing all my queers. Don't go nowhere, just prick up your ears, the Word of the Gay. Welcome to Word of the Gay, where we aim to dissect common words in the queer lexicon with regard to their history, contemporary usage in the LGBT plus community.

and in pop culture at large. I'm your host, Lenny, and this is my fabulous co-host, Brendi. Hello. Thanks for tuning in today. Now you can follow the show at Word of the Gay Pod on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram and send us any word suggestions. The Word of the Gay.

is actually a suggestion from a listener. For tonight's episode? Yes. How exciting. Linny, what are we talking about? We're talking about the word closet. All right, let's just dive straight in. Let's open the door and just get back in. Now, coming out of the closet is a metaphor for LGBT people's self-disclosure of their sexual orientation or gender identity. Yeah, a lot of queer people keep their status private for a certain period of time before coming out. And this time it's said to be...

when they are closeted or in the closet. Yeah, it's almost a rite of passage where a queer person seeks to live their life openly and no longer feel the internal and external shame of not. disclosing their sexual identity. And in the 19th century, gay rights activists started urging homosexual people to reveal their same-sex attractions as a way of freeing themselves from their big secret, especially elderly people. And in 1951, an American

writer named Donald Webster Corey published his book The Homosexual in America, writing about being in the closet by saying, society's handed me a mask to wear. Everywhere I go, at all times, and before all sections of society, I pretend.

But the present day expression, coming out, is thought to have originated in the early 20th century, comparing gay people coming out to a debutante's coming out ball, which is a celebration for the younger upper class woman who makes her debut into... formal society to announce she's eligible for marriage.

So coming out in this time for gay men meant telling another gay man that they were also gay and available to date. And often a new group of gay men would come out in drag balls, which were modelled after debutant balls. Yeah, so coming out became about proudly joining the community and drag balls at the time were often covered in newspapers. So coming out into gay society was well documented.

But the closet metaphor didn't show up until at least the late 60s, when coming out became a key strategy for the gay liberation movement to raise political consciousness and tackle homophobia. And then in the 1980s, gay and lesbian social support discussion groups were sometimes called coming out groups, focusing on sharing coming out stories with the goal of reducing isolation and increasing LGBT visibility and pride.

And there's also a link between the closet and the phrase skeleton in the closet, which refers to hiding something or living a life of secrecy too. She's got some skeletons in the closet. Cleaning out her closet.

So, Lenny, what keeps people in the closet? There are many, many things that keep people in the closet. Religion. Religion is a huge one. Schooling. Yep. Family. That was my list too. Being raised with homophobia, an obvious one. But even like denial and shame, even if you've been raised in a very accepting environment. Yes. But there's also because of that.

extra layer of society on top of that. Another one, being married and having kids. Maybe realising a bit too late. Yeah, absolutely. I think also government and what country you grew up in.

Oh, totally, yeah. Some countries are, you know, it's still illegal, like Singapore and Egypt and Afghanistan. And representation too, like... even if you have the feeling that you know that you are gay or just I mean queer in general because this can refer to like quite a lot of letters in the acronym if you do know that you have that feeling inside but you don't see it like you might think you're the only one absolutely feels that way and hence feel that

It will go away or it's wrong or something like that. And with no role models, you've got no one to look up to or sort of have that sort of pathway to be like, okay. Yeah. Well, I was thinking today, I did a little post on our Instagram about Portia de Rossi and I remember that so vividly.

seeing her and Francesca, the woman she was in a relationship, seeing that in like the Women's Weekly and the New Idea. And it was one... example of lesbian like real lesbians not in like a tv show or something yeah it just still has stuck in my memory it was so rare to see that lesbian visibility I didn't even know she was a lesbian before Ellen. Yes, she was. Yeah. I mean, besides the kiss that she did with Lucy Liu on Ellen McBeal, but like.

Yeah, well, she didn't – I don't think she was still – even though she was in a relationship for a few years and living with a woman, she wasn't out to the media, but she was to her friends and family. She was famously in the closet during the filming of Ally McBeal. Right, but it was all just – Slowly unraveling. Yes. Yeah.

Because it's interesting, if you're a celebrity, you come out to, you know, the close people in your life. I mean, there's an expectation sometimes, but there's sometimes a need or a desire for the person to also come out to the public. I've been there. Yes. As a celebrity. A Z grade celebrity. Yes, it was hard. Yes.

You know, because sometimes people will put a letter on their website or they'll accept an award and they'll come out there or hold a press conference. Did you do any of those? Press conference, yeah. No questions. No comment. No comment. So there's actually a thing called the glass closet for celebrities. There is. Yeah, which means the open secret. Everybody knows that they are, but it's never been. Confirmed. Or announced, yes. Announced publicly. I mean, and...

Prime examples are Ellen DeGeneres, Adam Lambert, Rosie O'Donnell. Yeah, everyone has speculated and I guess maybe assumed based on stereotypes that they were gay.

There was a fair bit of hinting from Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen. Absolutely. Yeah, and the CEO of this PR firm called 15 Minutes, who does a lot of work with gay clients and kind of advises them on that. He says that he usually only advises... them to come out if it's something they're struggling with as a way of kind of moving past it as opposed to if you're totally comfortable with your sexuality no need to come out publicly just for the sake of it like if you want to

retain that privacy or just not make it into a big deal. But he said that... There's four types of gay in Hollywood. So firstly, there's the openly gay. Adam Lambert, obviously. Yes. The gay and everyone knows it, but nobody talks about it. Ricky Martin back in 2000. Yes. The married. We'll go with Peter Allen, 1969. Yes, or there's John Travolta.

John Travolta, yes. Allegedly. Allegedly. The closeted gay who doesn't talk about it. Harry Styles. Allegedly. And the scream, I'll sue you if you say I'm a gay person. Well, I don't want to be sued, so let's not say his name, but I'll say was married to... Nicole Kidman and Penelope Cruz. Yes. And he has the same name as Penelope Cruz. Ah, spelled differently. Yes.

In other words, to quote this article, the no closet, the glass closet, the cast iron closet, and the closet you get buried in, which is quite sad. That is really sad. Yeah, it's dark. Well, I mean, if you're talking about the closet you get buried in, because there have been a number of celebrities that did...

die in the closet. Yes. Rock Hudson was one of them. Yeah, he basically came out when he was... Oh, no, no. He came out. No, he did come out. He did come out. Anthony Perkins is another one. He was the lead of Psycho. Yes, Montgomery Clift as well. Yes. He stayed in the closet. Obviously, Liberace, but I feel like that was... That was... What? That was the glass closet, surely. Yeah, 100%. But another one, Whitney Houston.

Oh, yeah. Allegedly. And I think Robin's written a book. There's two documentaries. Robin as in dancing on my own, Robin. No, the Robin that she was in a relationship with. Oh, okay. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. It's okay. Wow. You're like, which gay Robin? It was really dedicated to Whitney. And I think it's coming out this year. I'll be diving into that. And a bit closer to home on Aussie soil. We've got some examples. Two that really stick out for me. It's glass.

closets, Ian Thorpe, one of our Olympic swimmers, and Australian Idol runner-up Anthony Clea. What was fascinating with their sort of coming out stories was that the pair of them at different times in their careers... Everyone speculated and assumed because of stereotypes that they were gay and continually pressured them to come out. Which did a lot of damage as well. Which did do a lot of damage. But then when they eventually were comfortable enough and ready to come out.

Anthony Collier, he came out in 2007. And then seven years later, Ian Thorpe would come out in 2014. And eventually when they did come out, one, it was front page news. But then two, everybody who had been... telling them to come out and just do it. Then we're eye rolling and being like, we already know. And it's like, oh yeah. Fucking hold on. Like.

The heterosexual world being like, you are Archie, you are Archie, you are. And then it's like, oh, why do you have to flaunt it? Yeah, it's pretty bad. I mean, there's obviously different... pressures on celebrities like a lot of them fear it affecting their work and not being able to find work and with athletes their endorsements and it's an even more homophobic kind of environment male athletes in particular I think like there's

still not many of them that are out. Even in the performing arts world, like when I was training, there was a number of guys that weren't out or were straight, just that they wouldn't get typecasted. Well, you just have to look at Ellen. And all the controversy around that episode, like I didn't realize the impact it had.

It's such a different time now. The protesting. The protest, the ministers, the hate mail, the show, they were hinting that she was going to come out for a while. So this glass closet situation, like she went on talk shows and hinted. about it and it was all coming to a point there was buzz and people knew and even in the anticipation of that people were like speaking out against it there was a bomb threat

to the set. A lot of people wanted to be involved. Oprah Winfrey, she plays the therapist, and Laura Dern is the love interest. They're a really cute couple. It was actually an amazing episode. I just love that show. It's really funny. And her four friends. I was just like, they are just all excellent. And even they, like Laura Derm didn't work for a year because everyone thought she was a lesbian. Oprah Winfrey was getting so much hate mail.

about it as well and neither of them really even thought it was like a big deal and then they did it and it affected kind of everyone. Ellen as well. I think her show didn't last much longer after it but there was a record viewing. Like 44 million people watched the finale, but then something happened, I don't know, something happened where people lost interest or there was too much controversy and it wasn't worth it. But for her, even though...

she didn't think it was important for her to come out, particularly since everyone kind of thought it anyway. She said that her not coming out... kind of made it seem like there was something wrong with it. And she didn't want to kind of give that impression or perpetuate that. But the thing I really liked about the episode is that moment where she can't say she's gay and she just keeps saying, I'm, I'm, and then like it all, it finally.

comes out and I really related to early on like not being able to say it comfortably. Like the first couple of times you say it is kind of hard and then it just gets easier and then it's just like you say it.

I mean, she, I was watching a talk show and she's like, you don't, you know, say you're gay all the time. I'm like, oh, I think I kind of do. Like sometimes like you just do. But yeah, I know that not everyone had that experience, but that's something I really liked about the way her coming out in the show.

that kind of shame or stigma or just uncomfortability without saying it. And then once you do and realize that there's nothing wrong with it. I just find it fascinating that a year later, Will and Grace would air on television. True. Yeah. It's like, it changed a lot. Changed a huge amount. And then I watched the interview with Oprah, the Oprah special about the episode.

because Ellen had also been on the cover of Time and done an interview with Diane Sawyer. So Oprah, as she does, she has all the haters on there too and lets them kind of speak and ask Ellen questions and she handles it really well. She's probably just that sort of person as well.

points where you could tell she was really struggling struggling yeah because people were saying like pretty full on stuff and there was some girl that was like hysterical because she was just so offended by the whole thing and then the woman saying well I don't have to go on Time magazine and say I'm straight but she was so angry about it can you imagine looking back on it 20 years later and being like oh my god

That TV show crying. Yeah, it's pretty embarrassing. Like, they're cringeworthy. Yeah. And then Anne Heche comes on. And I just want to say, Anne Heche has been the butt of many lesbian jokes. I just feel so sorry for her. If she was like living in this time, living, she's still alive. If she came out in this time, she would just be like queer or pansexual, but everyone was like making her kind of define what she was. And she obviously wasn't.

lesbian or gay like she'd been with men and she went on to date men as well but she had this thing with Ellen that was like genuine but yeah I just I feel bad for her that she had to kind of define it so rigidly. Seven days, seven nights. Yes, it's a great movie. She was with Elle and Up. She came out and they were like a big...

a big deal. She had a cameo in Ellen, I'm pretty sure, where they like bumped into each other at the airport or something. You'd know the show better than me. I only started watching it last week. Oh, you absolutely need to, yeah. Watch it more.

Another famous lesbian. Not that we're talking about lesbians. We're talking about closets and coming out. And Cynthia Nixon. Cynthia Nixon was obviously, as we all know, Miranda Hobbs in Sex and the City. Yes. Fabulous, fiery redhead lawyer. Shorthead. Shorthead, sorry. Shorthead. And it was after the show finished that she came out? Yeah. But there was like...

speculation in the show or like kind of jokes in the show that she was a lesbian. Even the writing of the show, she's mistaken for a lesbian and set up with a woman. That's right, yes. At the baseball game. But she's just like adamant she's straight. Well, so she came out in the noughties after...

she fell in love with this woman and she said that homosexuality for her was a choice, which was very controversial. Not because, look, I don't think that it's necessarily genetic. I think that it's like a nature and nurture. factors that can contribute. I think that it's not just one thing. I don't think like you can raise a gay child on purpose or like anything like that. But I think that there's not just like you're born gay and that's all there is. No, I definitely think that it's genetics.

Just genetics. I think that, yeah, I think that there's. Gaga, born this way. Boom. I think they both can play a part, especially when you're looking more at like a spectrum as well.

Yeah, so she was very much saying that it's a choice, but she doesn't think there's anything wrong with that. And I don't either, but the fact that she has the choice means that she is... attracted to women which means she's probably bisexual and just choosing not to be with men which lots of women would do there are bisexuals that do that because they don't want to be with men for obvious reasons so i don't know why she really made a point of being like i'm a straight and i've chosen

to be gay. It's like you have that option because... You have an attraction. You literally can't change. Like, I don't think other people have that option. Just like, I don't have a choice to be straight. I mean, she says it's like a whole thing about how it doesn't matter how you become homosexual. But it's like, if she's saying it's a choice to be gay.

It's also a choice to be straight. But then she says it doesn't matter either way because you could opt out of it. But I don't feel like I can opt out of it, nor do I want to. No, absolutely not. You know? I love being gay. Wouldn't have my life any other way. Yes. But then there are people that obviously don't feel comfortable being gay within our society. As much as they're not comfortable with it, they do still indulge in same-sex relationships. But we talk about the...

closeted individual coming out and, you know, the struggle and whatnot or the struggle of being in the closet. But I can only imagine how hard it would be dating somebody who is in the closet. Not many people sort of think about the effects that it has on that person. Who is out, but is dating a person in the closet. One of my best mates. Wonderful Jimmy. God love him. We used to live together. And a few years ago, back in 2016, Newsday 2016, he met a guy. And we'll call him Citizen Kane.

For identity purposes. They ended up in a relationship for about a year and a half. Citizen Kane came out as bisexual in high school to his family, but it was never spoken of. It was very much swept under the rug and it was just not discussed again. So when they started dating, he was pretty much back in the closet. And Jimmy didn't really know that at the beginning.

As the relationship progressed, bumps in the road sort of popped up. He didn't go meet the family. Never met the family. What about friends? Friends, it took a very long time. Jimmy didn't know where he stood. Great things were happening. You know, Jimmy was falling in love, all that sort of jazz. And there was talk about them moving in together. Like there was all these plans that was happening. And whenever it came to sort of bringing up like, you know, when do I get to meet the family?

He was met with the reply of, I can't come out again. Incredibly humiliating for him. I mean, after a year and a half of having to deal with that sort of bullshit. That's quite a long time. It's a long time to be... pushed in the background, sort of a hidden secret, not knowing where you stand when you go to functions, not knowing what the backstory is, not being able to hold your partner's hand or walk in together and just be able to say, this is my partner.

I mean, yeah, it would be different if it was like a different time and they were both in that situation. Yeah. Because you think that would be the opposite. It would probably bring you together and bond you stronger, even though you had those pressures. But when one person is comfortable and out. Comfortable and out.

and you feel like you're living in the 50s, it creates more of a divide. Well, that was the thing Jimmy even said. He goes, I felt like I was having to step back into the closet and be ashamed of who I was. And Jimmy just... could not do it anymore. And as much as it hurt him, because he's admitted to me that it was his first love, he goes, I couldn't do it.

And I need to be 100% in my partner's life. Yeah, totally. Which I completely understand. Just awful. Yeah, I think that that situation most often ends with, yeah, the person, the patient to a point that it just is too much of a strain. on their part. It took Jimmy around about a good 12 months of reflection and just dealing with everything to sort of be able to move on. However, Citizen Kane, the next guy that he met. Oh no. Boom.

relationship all over social media, out to the family, out to the friends. I've got a number of people that that's happened to and it's just fucked. And then you go through that questioning period of like, what was it about me? Why couldn't you have? Yeah. It's just like their own process. I don't know, but it's really sad for the people on the other side. I could not date somebody in the class.

closet i mean you meet me when you're ready ready to hold my hand in public and proudly introduce me to the world as your partner hands down beautiful otherwise move along well i remember those those feelings that's taking me back

when I was in the closet. Oh, let's go back there. Let's go back, Lenny. Tell me when. I was so confused that I don't think I was aware I was in the closet. for that long, which is probably good for my mental health, but there was something going on there and explains a lot. So when I came out, it definitely wasn't a big announcement or like a press conference.

I didn't sit everyone down. It was kind of like a slow process. There was something that triggered me realising and I did have a total freak out about it when it happened. My little group of friends, my good gay friend and my good straight friend, we met a girl to kind of join our group and to party with back in the day. And we were just like going out a lot. Party friends. Yeah, party friends. Well, the other two were real friends.

But, yeah, we were partying a lot and I kind of realised – I mean, I actually thought this girl was kind of interested in me but wasn't very sure, but probably because I'm so bad at picking up those signals. But I also didn't really – talk to anyone about it because I was kind of uncomfortable about it into it but uncomfortable and then I realized that I think I had quite

strong feelings for this girl and really wanted something to happen but like didn't know how and didn't again know how to talk about it with her or with friends to kind of get that to happen like i had a total kind of crisis stopped actually speaking to the girl, came to realise these things a bit later.

I was gay. For me, I had to have those kind of strong feelings to really realise. Even though now looking back, they're not so strong. But that connection or perceived connection I had with someone that I was really upset about and I just couldn't work out why. Later down the track, not that far, I came out to my best friend at the time. He had actually been dating the girl. Oh, wow. So I was in a bit of a love triangle. Oh, my God.

Very My Best Friend's wedding, yes. Both of us, you know, liking this girl. So that was kind of strange and he... known me for like a very long time so it was like quite a shock for him to kind of hear this and it was also kind of funny because I think he was surprised that I was having feelings for her and not him right so it was like a bit of a like extra thing to process and another little layer to the story is that the

other guy, the gay friend, had feelings for the straight guys who were actually a little square. What? A gay guy liking a straight man? This is unheard of. So we had like, yeah. So basically the friendship group kind of dissolved and then was rebuilt. Right. Yeah. Divided, conquered, and then rebuilt. Yes. We will rebuild. We will rebuild. And then the process of coming out was just kind of like...

I told one person and then it was kind of funny because two people accidentally added me to other people. It was totally fine though. I was ready. I was just doing it in my own really slow way. And some people were definitely easier than others. You know, it told my mom. another close friend made it into this big deal that no one really cared about. I had like a really, really good experience with it. I'm very lucky. Yeah. Your turn, Brandi.

My turn. Oh God, let's get back into the diary. So my coming out of the closet, I guess I knew, deep down, I knew something was up when I was the age of 12, year seven. I specifically remember hiding under my doona in my bedroom. saying to myself that I wasn't. By the time I got to year 11 I 100% knew.

And I remember again, once again, being under my doona, saying it out loud. And it was like this weight just lifted off my shoulders slightly because I was only admitting it to myself. However, I didn't tell. The first person I told was my...

best friend at the time, Marnie, who was also my first gay friend. Yep. Pretty much the beginning of year 12. And I remember we were at a sleepover party and I was so nervous and I was tearing up and we were in our sleeping bags and it was dark and I was holding her hand and I was telling her.

And I did the whole delivery of, I think I'm bisexual. Yes. She's like, okay, yep. And the next day I was like, okay, I'm definitely gay. She's like, I know, I know you just needed to say that. I waited until the end of year 12 because I just, I didn't want to be. a topic of school. I told every single friend I...

I subconsciously knew that I needed to tell all of my friends first before I told my family, just in case. Yeah, just so I knew that I had that support. And every single friend was wonderful. And they all knew anyway. Once I told all those friends, I then told my family. I told my mother. She and I were sunbaking on the beach down in Rye. I remember telling her and she was totally fine with it. Yeah, I just remember my mum was like...

I was like building it up. I was crying. I was calling her on the phone because she doesn't live in Melbourne. I just have to tell you this thing, like this Ellen moment. And like I'm trying to say it, couldn't. And she was just like, what's wrong? And then I told her and she was like, and so what?

Yeah. I was like, yeah, but I had to fucking tell you. So thank you. But like, you have to say it, even if it's not important, like they don't care. It's like, they're kind of saying it doesn't matter, but you're like, yes, but I have to tell you because I can't just. Well, this is the thing. I mean, but I think that will change, but in the society that is dominantly heterosexual.

You have to announce it, you know, as that woman had the problem with it. It's like, you have to, because it's not the norm. Otherwise people are like confused. Well, this is the thing. Like I came out to her that day on the beach, 2006. Again, I was 18. been asking me, you know, why don't you have a girlfriend? Why don't you have a girlfriend? And I just said, because I'm gay. And it was, oh, oh, I guess I've always known.

Anyway, we headed home that day and everything. And I was just like, oh, this is great. It just seems that was so easy. Yada, yada, yada. And she said to me, you need to tell your father. Because my parents were separated. Oh, divorced, sorry. She goes, you need to tell your father because he needs to know the same day.

As me. I know. I took her advice. As soon as I told my dad, first thing he said was, how long has your mother known? And I said, well, since one o'clock today. Wow. I guess more concerned about being. equal. Yes. Parents, but at the beginning they were both very much like that day when they first heard it, it was no, no, no, you know, we still love you and things don't, you know, it doesn't change anything. And then my mother had a little.

existential crisis, came to me that night saying, do I need to go see a doctor? Yeah, it was quite full on. But I think it was just a lack of education and knowledge on her behalf. She saw me as, is he just confused? Dad would then... turn around to my brother and I'd find this out years later and say to him or say to both my brothers that they just needed to take me to a brothel because that would fix me. I was lucky enough in the sense that my friend Marnie...

The day after I came out, she took me to Adelaide. It was like the 1960s and I was a pregnant teen going abroad for two weeks. But I went to Adelaide and just had two weeks away from my family. In those two weeks, mum took a lot of time to reflect. She reached out to friends. She spoke to a lot of different people and realised and then was very apologetic.

about the way that she'd behaved. And in the 13, 14 years that I've been out, she especially has grown quite a lot. She was incredibly naive about the gay community, whereas now she's... Very well informed and has definitely embraced it a lot more. But it's interesting because everyone just assumes that I burst out of a vagina with bottles of glitter and was parading down the street. But it was actually quite a...

Full on experience. And of course, we've got the fabulous anthem and one of my favourite songs by Diana Ross, I'm Coming Out, which... clearly she is a gay icon. Yeah. And what's amazing about this song is that when it was originally presented to her, she didn't actually want to do it because she thought... that people would think that she was coming out as a lesbian, but her producers pushed her and said, no, no, no, you want to sing this song. Yes. And they were right. Yep.

Fucking exploded. And there are also films like Moonlight and Love, Simon. Love, Love, Simon. Based on the book Simon vs. the Homo Sapiens Agenda, which debuted in 2018 and is the first major studio film about a gay teenager coming. out oh and jennifer garner's sorry spoiler alert but jennifer garner's beautiful motherly speech where she's just like it's time to exhale i'm just like oh oh god why didn't we all have mothers that just said that

Love you, Mum. Oh, God. And finally, we've got The Glass Closet, as we mentioned earlier. It's a book, Why Coming Out is Good for Business. It's by John Brown. And he talks about being gay in the workplace and discussing that being out increases productivity.

Makes a lot of sense because people that aren't out in the workplace experience the same things of people who are just closeted generally in life. Like they can experience depression and just feel very drained and exhausted at the end of the day. And that they, you know, even if they...

only hiding sexuality from their co-workers it still takes a strain it kind of puts these like blocks up as well like sometimes someone makes a mistake about the sex of your partner and you don't bother to correct them like sometimes i don't i'm not Definitely not closeted at work or anywhere intentionally, but it's still that sort of same thing where you're like, I can't be bothered coming out to this stranger that I just, you know, met or someone at school or...

But people think I'm straight. No, people don't mistake me for that at all. Straight people think I'm straight. Ever. Yeah. And that brings us to the end of our episode. Before we go out, I just wanted to quickly say that for any of our listeners who aren't out yet or are struggling with coming out, please know that no matter what, you are not alone.

There is a wider family and community that will always accept you with open arms, and I truly do mean that. We're all in this together, so please don't be afraid to ask for help, and please don't be afraid to be you. Amen. On that note, I'm getting a little bit teary, Lenny. Yeah, you went deep. On that note. Thanks for sharing it all with us.

You can follow the show at AtWordOfTheGayPod on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Do send us any word suggestions. Yeah, thanks so much for tuning in. For tuning in and we'll be back in another fortnight. For another fabulous word. Yep. It's been an absolute pleasure. It has. It's been a hoot. It has. Bye! Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Greetings Adventurers is the longest running Dungeons & Dragons actual play comedy podcast.

that has been putting out episodes each and every week since 2012. And we think you'd love it, but don't take our word for it, take theirs. The thing I love most about Greetings Adventures is the... interactive community. I've been listening for 10 years, and now I'm a sophomore in college. The only podcast I've ever listened to for that long. There's nothing better. There's no limit on what might happen, so just be prepared.

top-tier comedy right here. The best representation of sitting around with a group of idiots playing D&D. And it's not something you're just watching. It's something that you're experiencing. Download Greetings Adventurers wherever you listen to podcasts. Can't wait to see you next episode. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere.